Guild Wars 2

And the historic Druid were very much tied to the same things the ranger class in GW2 is. The entire Nature Magic Spec is a direct rip from druid. Get over it dude, it makes sense for our class. No one said you had to play it.

So what build would you suggest (or changes to the above build) for the times when I’m solo?

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Not according to those that are using them.

Not my fault they are bad at pvp

Well. Can’t reason with arrogance. I’ll be moving on.

That’s a pretty good one. There was another one I saw that used pistol MH and dropping into stealth to get the bleeds on the sneak attack, but I think I like this one alot better.

Any other ones?

Two builds was kinda the direction I was leaning in, just wasn’t sure if there was a hybrid build that I was missing. I’ve been looking at Viper, and will probably bite the bullet and spend the crap ton of money to do it. However on the power build, not sure what stat set to use. Berserker is everyone’s default, but scrapper has that toughness → power trait, so I’m curious if there’s a better choice. (I also have felt kinda squishy on this character, though I haven’t played with scrapper spec much.)

Anchoku.8142:

Holl, I am honestly not sure condition damage changes enough between power stat’s and condition damage stat’s.

What I mean is that base bleed and poison dps with zero condition damage equipment is not zero dps.

I might as well build for power/crit and use bleeds as the situation calls for it. Dps on a berserker/valkyrie build using dagger focus and scepter focus might still be better than giving up ferocity for a high condition damage stat.

Perhaps I will experiment a bit this weekend and see just how long I need to camp scepter AA with Curses or Spite to equal dps on maining dagger and using scepter in place of staff for ranged. Both using Reaper shouts and Deathly Chill.

They re-scaled condi damage last June to not work as well if you don’t stat condi. You’re correct, it’s not zero damage without, but you are definitely gonna get a lower dps without it. If you want to do a power build, don’t worry about it (and there’s better trait choices for that anyway). You could do a hybrid build (rampager, sinister, viper, carrion all options for that).

1. You can level with condi just fine. I’m doing it right now. It hasn’t been a problem.

2. While power works pretty well at all levels, precision does not. because of scaling, you can forget getting much in the way of crits unless you take soul reaping and snag Death perception, and even then only while in shroud.

3. I appreciate that people have figured out the most effective stat block for pumping out damage. However, that isn’t necessarily everyone’s goal in making a build. For some people, that doesn’t necessarily make it the most fun or natural for them build to play, and if you aren’t having fun, what’s the point?

4. Minions are helpful while leveling condi as they act as a useful distraction while your conditions have time to work. You don’t have to go into Death Magic (I’m still doing Curses first), you just need them for a distraction. And I’ve only had them die against vets/champs (and even then usually only one has to be replaced). My utilities are a mix of minions and corruption skills.

5. As far as equipment, I’m snagging all the condi stuff. Again, it’s working out fine, and I haven’t even grabbed the GM trait for scepter that adds more condi damage (I will, just don’t have enough HP just yet). And if there is something condi doesn’t work on (like objects), I hit it a couple times and the minions take care of it for me.

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Ofc there are DC builds that work on pvp, but they are still bad compared to the old necro and not wven close to meta.

Not according to those that are using them.

So i have a engi at 80. Can’t decide on what direction to go in. started to do a power scrapper, but then thought about a condi engi for high level fractals. I have other options for high level fractals (a ranger and a necro), but that doesn’t help me with engi. Not sure what direction to go in with it, and I’m about to throw my hands up and just make a celestial set so I can do basically everything.

Suggestions? Advice? Comments? Thoughts?

I’m curious to see what a good condi thief build would look like if one exists (it might not). Anyone have any to share?

Note: I put pve in the title of thread because it helps alleviate so much confusion up front. Denoting the game type you’re referencing for your thread is super helpful guys!

Lordrosicky.5813:

From a pvp perspective anyone claiming this wasn’t a HUGE nerf is either really bad at the game or just hear to try and troll people.

The facts are pretty clear. It was across the board nerfs. Repear shroud got significantly nerfed which effects every spec. It would be like lowering initative regen for thief or increasing the cd on guardian virtues. Its a nerf to the class as a whole.

The trait changes are also clearly nerfs except in the case of deathly chill which some bad players might see as a buff. But from a pvp perspective this is actually the biggest nerf of all because spreading damage across condis = win. Also the build up time to the amount of bleeds (from chill) required to do equal damage is just impossible to reach in the power creeped gw2 combat system where every class has infinite and spammable condi removal.

So you need burst condis. Previously chill hit a foe and instantly did good damage. Now it stacks up slowly in the form of bleeds. Which is not spike damage. It is no damage because it will get cleansed before it even outweighs the perma regen every class in pvp has.

There is really no debate to be had. If you disagree with me then you are just bad at the game really.

No other class receives the amount of monster nerfs necro does. I am not talking small changes to healing signet or whatever like other classes get that gradually nerf a class. I am talking instantly making a class terrible like with the dhumfire and chill nerfs. That is instant massive nerfs.

And yet there are growing number of people who have created reaper builds with the new DC and have testified to it working really well in pve and pvp. Those builds are posted in several threads. If they can succeed with this new version of DC, maybe you should ask them what you’re doing wrong.

Not trying to be offensive, but seriously guys, change is inevitable, in life and in games. Adapt, learn, and move forward, or get left behind. I’d rather you did the former. The latter is just sad.

Kodama.6453:

So basically you want to have 10 stacks of bleeding just for applying chill on your enemy. That means not just the old burstiness of deathly chill, that means the doubled damage of it.

Sorry, but I think this is really too strong, especially since reaper has so many ways to apply chill.

Fair point. with enough condi duration you would have the potential to have up to 10 stacks at a time… even if they would last only two seconds at most… huh…

Mesmer does really well I think for group support and solo. I haven’t played one for groups as much, but I know the class well enough from solo play to know it’s pretty good. Mes does have a different playstyle from other classes in general, so I don’t think you will get bored with it.

Also have a guardian, and funny enough I mainly use it for solo content. The Monk’s Focus trait with the meditations makes it tanky enough to survive just about anywhere.

Name: Bearshaman.3421
Main character: Kalla Skyshadow
Region/Server: NA/Fort Aspenwood
Activities: general pve/dungeons/fractals/event maps
Active: casual and random. I play around my work schedule.
Guild member: yes
Contact directly: yes
Additional comments: I don’t play pvp of any kind, I’m willing to try WvW at some point. I’m the quiet type, I’m terrible at small talk, but I’ll speak up when I have something to say or someone has a question.

I’m thinking either guardian or revenant for you. Heavy armor, good on direct damage, and guardian has a lot of support to begin with, and revenant picks up a lot with herald (elite spec).

I don’t know warrior well enough to say if it can be supporty, and while power reaper can be a hard hitter with a lot of survivability, not so good on support.

Myralien.6754:

+1
The deathly chill nerf basically brought a hell of alot of condis back to using core necro builds with party support via the blood line lol
It’s a bit annoying as Reaper Shroud offered way more in terms of mobility and spike damage.. but it’s hardly worth using atm

While I’m fine with the OP’s suggestion, the growing number of people who are not only finding ways to make the new DC work but also posting their builds for it using it in condi builds kinda hurts the credibility of your assertion there.

Skullmarked.8705:

I found the adjustment a bit rough seeing how I use other traits on other lines to improve DC. Now that bleed has replaced chill on that trait I feel put back on the proverbial bench again. Being a player that uses virtually the same build in all game types now I have to play around with builds again since I made chill damage the primary point of the build and all upgrades, traits, etc where done to work with the old DC. Necromancer is death and cold i.e. Grenth. Let Balthazaar and his “I just swung a sword can I has cookie now?” warriors worry about bleeds. Just a 12 year GW Necro Vet’s opinion.

Bleeds are all over the place in necro though, and I always associated burning with balthazar, not bleed imho.

I hesitate to say this because I know people’s feelings on this but I have a set of celestial that’s been working very well for me for pve dungeons, fractals, and OW event maps.

Edit: my reason for this is because I like being able to swap out weapons quickly and I didn’t have the money to have 3 different sets of gear for different builds.

(ducks and hides in corner)

I too would be interested in the answer to this.

I love condi, and I’ll freely admit it’s not as easy to level with. You will have problems with objects until you hit the three stat gear. There is no power/condition two stat gear, so that’s not an option. If you want to level condi, I would do a mix of power and condi gear until you hit the level where you can get carrion gear (condi/power/vitality) and that should get you through to lvl 80. Don’t worry about crafting gear until then, unless you are leveling your crafting professions at the same time as you are leveling (which is a good way to level yourself too, especially with boosters).

The weapons you picked are spot on. I’m leveling a condi necro now. One thing that can help is to pick up some minions, they add to your direct damage and provide targets for the enemies while you throw out conditions. I’m also doing Curses first, and so far it’s working out pretty well. (at level 23 now).

Catch up for what exactly? Aside from maybe working on masteries and getting your elite spec (both of which require that you have purchased heart of thorns), the only thing I can think of that you need to do is redoing your traits because that entire system has changed from a year ago. Your build will need tweaking (because of a years worth of skill and trait changes/updates). But other than that you should be able to hop back into playing whatever you liked playing before.

Some questions that may help narrow it down for you…

Do you prefer to be melee, ranged, or both?

Do you enjoy dodging and moving alot, or being a caster type, or having a pet(s), or being a group support type, or a solo character?

Do you like direct damage or condition damage?

All classes can do everything but some are better than others depending on what you want to do. just trying to narrow it down.

Phineas Poe.3018:

bearshaman.3421:

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

Slick Shoes was sometimes used prior to scrapper’s release, but it got a major buff in utility with Rapid Regeneration. And it’s not hard to see the implied synergy between Juggernaut, Mass Momentum, and Applied Force—even if it still falls short of other options.

My original point was that elite specializations do not add to preexisting utility skill categories. As in, I find it incredibly unlikely that we will get more kits. Elite specializations have already made preexisting traits and utility skills more useful, however, and it wouldn’t surprise me if our next specialization makes the Bomb Kit or Tool Kit a bit more useful. Hell, that’s what a lot of us were asking for this time around, prior to the elite spec reveal.

To be honest I’m not really quite sure what another specialization for us would even look like. We have our melee weapon. We have our condi weapon. We have our power weapon. Maybe a mace or axe to give the shield a real chance to be used this century? Hard to say.

Sorry if my post was unclear. I was agreeing with you. I knew what you meant, I was just lamenting that people keep thinking otherwise.

As for another engi elite spec? I have no idea tbh. Probably some other new gizmo for utility skills, and I have no clue for a weapon (even if they take some other weapon and skin it to look like a tool like they did with hammer).

Tornupto.2304:

btw: Why Sigill of Ice?

That’s my only question too. It can be helpful occasionally, but I feel like a sigil of malice would be a better choice.

I was wondering if it would work well for a necro… thanks for the pics!

About the only group support I can see that we have is the vampiric traits in Blood Magic, which gives everyone in our group life steal, and unholy martyr which allows us to passively take conditions from our team mates (which we can then give back to the enemy).

gavyne.6847:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

gavyne.6847:

I must be living on a different planet than those that see the chill nerfs as “buffs”.

Chill applying bleed is indeed a buff in PvE, less so in WvW and PvP I’d argue

Right, obviously we’re talking about PvP/WvW here.

Expecting traits to conform to pvp/wvw and not pve is another reason they need to split the skills between the two. All this current situation does is pit pve players against pvp/wvw players.

Yannir.4132:

bearshaman.3421:

Dadnir.5038:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

“Your conditions deal increased damage to Chilled foes”

I know this is the third time I’ve posted this, but it does feel like it could be a good alternative.

^ this.

Though I’d prefer : “You do more damage and condition damage on chilled foes”. 5% – 7% would be fine.

I would also be fine with a percentage increase to condition damage to chilled foes. These are both (this and torment) better options to fit the theme of Deathly chill I think.

+1’d This is the only sensible suggestion I see in this thread. As for the others… Confusion? Burning? Torment?! Powercreep much?

Bleeds may be boring but they are easily stacked high. It also makes multiple reapers more viable. It has the potential for higher dmg than ever. You just need to commit to playing differently.

Yeah, I don’t see the change as a buff or a nerf, just a alteration, on that brings chill back in line. Turning a duration stacking condition into a damaging one was a bad design move, and one I’m glad they changed. Bleed works as an alternative, since I’m pretty sure the trait was intended for condi builds anyway. I’m open to the idea of other options, and am glad some people are starting to see the solid possibilities with the new DC.

I think you should look at which class is gonna have a steeper learning curve. Whichever one you think you can pick up quicker is the one you should insta-level. I’d lean towards using it for ranger, and regular level mesmer. I had an easier time learning and assimilating to the ranger than I did the mesmer. (I’ve leveled both to 80.)

I don’t know where you heard that about axe/torch. I use that in fractals now. Works great for condi builds, which are recommended for high level fractals because of the much higher toughness of the bosses. The question comes down to which build are you going for? direct damage (berserker) or condi damage (viper/sinister)?

leviathan.2148:

bearshaman.3421:

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

I agree, people just don’t listen. Speaking of kits though, IMO they will need to be changed somehow or it won’t matter how many new skills they’ll introduce, the kits will be the best option for 90% of the cases. And we need variety in builds. They’ve been almost the same for a long time.

Tbh I’d rather they just improved the other skills. Turrets are fine, they do what they are supposed to do (stationary dps), but there is little incentive to use a lot of the other ones.

Edit: Went and looked at the skills again. I think we just have a very specialized set of skills. The elixirs all give various boons (we can practically have every boon in the game on demand, except resistance?), the gadgets all do various CC and conditions, and the turrets provide extra dps and other functions. They are all good skills, just in very specialized conditions. I think most builds have kits listed in the utility slots with the inherent idea that you swap them out as needed for the other skills where appropriate.

Dadnir.5038:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

“Your conditions deal increased damage to Chilled foes”

I know this is the third time I’ve posted this, but it does feel like it could be a good alternative.

^ this.

Though I’d prefer : “You do more damage and condition damage on chilled foes”. 5% – 7% would be fine.

I would also be fine with a percentage increase to condition damage to chilled foes. These are both (this and torment) better options to fit the theme of Deathly chill I think.

Scoundrel.2139:

Ayrilana.1396:

You can do what some players are doing and AFK farm leather and such in Mount Maelstrom killing nightmare court. I’ve seen them having their heal skill in auto cast which may prevent the game from auto-logging them to the character select screen. Another place that I have seen people is in Harathi Hinterlands killing centaurs.

I haven’t personally done any of these so I can’t vouch what the gold per hour is but it appears to be something that can be done AFK. You’ll just need to be on a class such as a ranger so you can use your pets to kill them. You’ll get the various loot bags which can contain the expensive materials.

^ – Under the JP Chest Not SO secret. People park there and leave minions on for Necros. Just continuously killing things I’m guessing wiht a random macro auto-loot.

No random macro. If you complete the Pact Commander mastery, you get the autoloot option in settings. So long as you are near the enemy that your minions/pets killed, you will get the loot.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Shaogin.2679:

Nilix.2170:

bearshaman.3421:

5 years from now we will have enough of them for all the builds of the different professions to be recognized. Maybe. Hopefully. Someday.

The first Elite Spec for Engineer that comes with a kit rather than multiple utilities is going to be the last Elite Spec it’ll ever want.

I really hope no new kits are ever introduced. I’d rather see useful utilities, and reworks to some of our dead utilities (Gadgets and Turrets).

They’ve made it pretty clear that specializations bring a new categories of utilities (i.e., gyros) and not simply tack onto currently existing categories.

And yet people keep talking about elite specs like they are gonna fix EXISTING skills and traits. I don’t know where they get this idea, one look at them shows that the most impact they have on preexisting profession skills/traits/etc is that some of them modify the class mechanic (not the case for scrapper). I find it mind-boggling that this idea keeps coming up in conjunction with elite specs. This is what patches are for.

Zantmar.5406:

in the case of u running zeal/virtues/DH
which is standard raid/dungeon
in which case is not optimal for solo pve for reasons
1. Hot content require sustain if you plan to solo
2. You lack the necessary fury boon that group easily provides and thus your damage is inconsistent meaning it may take 6 hits or 15 hits depend on ur 54-60 ish crit chance

simply replace Zeal line for Valor and gain huge amount of sustain as well as personal fury

what you are trading for when u replace Zeal with Valor:
you lose 7% damage to burning enemies
you lose 10% damage to enemies withing a symbol
you lose chance to burn burning enemies with a symbol
you lose 5% damage and recharge with great-sword if you roll one

ya gain fury when you use meditation
ya gain heal when ya use meditation
ya gain smite conditions when ya use meditation which heals and remove condi and damages
ya gain 150 toughness

all in all not bad of a trade is ya plan to fight anything stronger than a silver mob
(also capable of quicker spike kill via smite condi + heal smite condi)
(me running this in pve is a direct result of being smoked by 2 veteran smokescales)

edit: changed “5__hits” into 6 hits because apperenlly “5” and “hits” with a single space in-between become kittens in this forum

Is this the monk build? Using Monk’s Focus and using all meditations I found to have incredible sustain. It’s a selfish build, not for groups, but if you’re running around solo it’s definitely a good foundation to build on.

Substance E.4852:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Substance E.4852:

It’s a condi build.

The overwhelming majority of your damage is from burns and some from bleeds, not from the piddly damage axe does to a single target.

Axe auto could do 0 damage and would probably have a negligible effect (assuming one isn’t a neurotic minmaxer) on your total dps in a fight against a raid or dungeon/fractal boss.

You still have the option.
And also – outside of raid content you do use axe #1 if you can. It can increase your might stacks up to 25. It can also deal damage to targets immune to conditions.

A condi build can’t do that.
Naturally – the most DPS that you can squeeze goes out of conditions but that changes nothing about hybrid DPS and uses of axe.
You are right. 90% of it’s damage goes from conditions. Which means……. Why no one uses Wanderer / Dire / Rabid / whichever condi (only) stats ? Probably because even the power portion matters. Which naturally promotes and proves the idea it being hybrid.

It’s still a condition set though.

Even the ele scepter does some damage on auto. You would really have to go out of your way to find a build that does enough condition damage to function but no skill damage to an enemy, if such a build even exists.

Same goes for the inverse. Plenty of power builds have some condition damage with them. I doubt many here would consider S/A-LB a hybrid build because of the bleeds from Sharpened Edges and the Lynx or a dagger thief a hybrid because they poison on auto.

Ok this is arguing semantics, but I’ll say it anyway. The difference here is you are using a hybrid WEAPON in a condi BUILD (if you’re using Rabid or Dire or whatever). Axe can work in a power build or a condi build and that is what makes it a hybrid weapon. And you’re right, there are a lot of hybrid weapons, and that’s probably intentional on Anet’s part. But LB and GS are straight power weapons (no skills that do condition damage), and Torch is straight condi (not because it does no power damage (it does) but because every skill does a lot of condi and most of its damage is from condi).

The reason then Sinister and now Viper’s is the optimum set is because there is no 3rd stat for condition damage. If you don’t need to bring extra defensive stats, there’s no reason to not just slap on a power/precision boost. Even if you have 0 bonus ferocity and are hitting on a condition weapon that doesn’t do much damage to begin with, it’s better than nothing.

It’s not a commentary on the strength of hybrid builds as a concept, it’s about that fact that Power needs 3 stats to optimize damage while condi only needs 2 and the core tenant of minmaxing is to squeeze out every possible drop of performance.

Generally I agree with the last part of what you said (i happen to like hybrid builds so Sinister and Viper are perfect for me). Precision tends to be a go to second stat for condi, just because of the number of traits and sigils that proc condi on crit. However (speaking very generally across professions), there is frequently a third stat that is desirable because of a trait that gives a % of that stat to condi damage. A couple rune sets do that as well (Undead for example).

ronpierce.2760:

1. 2 bleeds is viable, but it’s boring and potentially a fairly high burst potential (though with longish cooldowns and visibility when it’s coming). It’s not a bad way to handle it.

2. The burst with burns is too high. A dev said they toyed around with using Burning but combos like Rs5->4 was too devastating. I tend to agree.

Personally:
I think 2 torment for 8 seconds is the best idea. For one, Necromancers deserve more Torment access and a bitter cold sounds fairly tormenting. It does good damage, but does more with an enemy playing bad/has counter play for the enemy. Lastly, due to the nature of the Rs5->4 combo stunning initially, it helps curb the initial burst of the combo by nature of movement prevention, while still remaining fully impactful in normal play.

In general, 2 torment for 8 seconds makes the most sense and supports comboing with Fear (our other niche) to secure burst damage.

That’s my two cents.

That would be pretty cool. I can get on board with torment instead of bleed.

fonvitale.9621:

Dear Bearshaman,

We all know that you love the changes to reapers. I don’t care if you play sPvP, WvW, PvE, both of them, or the three games modes. That has nothing to do with coming here to say what I can expect from devs and their communication policies. Stop censuring people.

That said, I prefer to keep a constructive attitude with Anet. I’m not demanding an explanation. I’m asking for it politely. If they don’t answer is not my or your problem.

I’m not here to disccuss with you about communication so I’m not going to answer you again. Hope you understand.

Thank you.

Umm wow ok. First off, my views on DC have nothing to do with anything I’ve said in this thread. Second off, just pointing out that what you’re trying to do isn’t an effective means of doing that, but if you don’t want to hear the truth, then I’ll leave you to waste your time how you like.

Rogue.8235:

bearshaman.3421:

Zero Day.2594:

Rogue.8235:

…
I don’t play the game, I play the players.

But the players you play are in the game, so to play them you need to play the game.

Unless, you mean, playing someone that’s playing on your account that’s playing players under your name – Then you’re play players, dawg.

You need to know how the game works, yes. But he’s talking about getting inside the player’s heads, so they start playing the game in the way you want them to.

By that I meant more of something I picked up from chess. You don’t play the board so much as the player. Deception, feints, and counters are based on who you play. I’ve set up aboard once and used my king as a frontliner because the player was so obsessed with trying to get it. This is what I mean.

Edit: He was so frusterated and confused by this tactic. He never quite learned.

That’s more or less what I meant. You’re just providing a specific form of what I’m talking about.

Yeah that question requires an important context: which game mode are you asking about?

Substance E.4852:

bearshaman.3421:

Fluffball.8307:

bearshaman.3421:

Whether a weapon is hybrid or not has nothing to do with how you use it. A knife doesn’t cease being sharp because you decided to cut your bread with the back side of it. If the weapon has a mix of good power and condi options in its set of skills, it’s a hybrid weapon. Period. You can use it for a pure power or condi build, but the fact that you can use it for both only proves what I said.

You said that viper or sinister were hybrid, and made no mention of axe. Axe is clearly hybrid, but a viper ranger using axe in PvE is pure condi.

Totally useless semantics, but whatever.

See, I guess to me that isn’t pure condi, because you can still use the autoattack, do decent power damage cuz Viper has power high. You might not choose to, but the option is there.

Edit: If you were doing the same build with Rabid or Dire, that to me would be a pure condi build, because you don’t have the power to make the AA useful.

It’s a condi build.

The overwhelming majority of your damage is from burns and some from bleeds, not from the piddly damage axe does to a single target.

Axe auto could do 0 damage and would probably have a negligible effect (assuming one isn’t a neurotic minmaxer) on your total dps in a fight against a raid or dungeon/fractal boss.

against a singular target no. But it is very useful for dealing with adds, and the trash mobs leading up to it. I clear the ice walls in snowblind without ever taking focus off the boss at the end, and it works really well in Volcanic as well to deal with the lava elemental slug things, again without taking focus off of the main boss.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I correct myself. The Dead Sea is now the 3rd saltiest thing on earth behind https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Just-truly-awful-AWFUL-changes/ and now this thread.

Pretty much. I’ll say the same thing here that I said in the necro forums: If you feel that strongly about it, delete your guardian, make a new character with another class. Stop it with the QQ and move on.

fonvitale.9621:

bearshaman.3421:

You realize devs don’t answer questions on the forums, right?

Hi,

I think that in order to contribute with precise suggestions, at least an explanation is needed to know the actual reasons of the change. We are groping otherwise.

Thank you.

PS: if devs don’t answer questions on the forums, these forums are useless.

Forums have primarily been for players to talk to other players, in pretty much every game forum ever.

While the forum moderators watch the forums, and may occasionally relay information to the devs, the devs rarely if ever set foot on them. They have their own ways of collecting data.

Beetamus.6403:

Sun Lian.4075:

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

The chill effect is still there.. so that’s just not true. Even if they wanted to only cleanse bleed, it’s not like you can choose what condition to remove so that’s irrelevant.
Chill only applied 1 condition before, now it applies 2 so I don’t get why people say it’s easier cleansed, considering that you now basically apply 1 condition extra with all your skills that apply chill, on top of all the other conditions. Which means in a big perspective, your enemy can actually cleanse less conditions in total.

Yes the chill effect is still there, but the damage isn’t. Before if they cleansed one, they are still taking damage from the other. Now, if they cleanse bleed, they aren’t taking damage from chill, therefore nerf.
Don’t get me wrong, in PVE this new change to deathly chill is better as multiple necros can stack more damage, but in PVP this is quite a nerf.

I suspect this is less a PvE/PvP thing, and more a power/condi thing, as I saw this trait used a lot on power builds before, and now it probably will only get used on condi builds, which I’m pretty sure was what was intended from the beginning.

Akrasia.5469:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

ronpierce.2760:

bearshaman.3421:

Flumek.9043:

Krysard.1364:

bearshaman.3421:

Shouakue.5729:

I can understand from a PvE stand point, Yes, it will stack bleeds but even with that, it still doesnt compare to how much condition damage other classes push out. In a realistic fight against other real people, this is a huge nerf. 1 sec of chill duration for 671 damage is better than 1 stack of bleed for 120. With the amount of dodges, invul, blocks, and immune, you are luck to get 4-6 stacks of bleed with a necro. Not to mention that resistance is becoming more available so when someone gets 3 sec of resistance, all my condi damage is useless and with people running -20% condi dur, all you need is 3 sec of resistance to cancel the damage. Also, many other classes now gain regen very easily which counters bleed and poison pretty easy. I agree that it was strong even with the previous nerf but instead of getting rid of its damage they could of toned it down to like 500ish @1700 condition and have the trait remove one or both of the other abilities chill gave. So it would force the player to chose damage over speed and skill reduction.

With the amount of boon corruption we have, other classes melt between the conditions we pump out and the boons they try to use that we corrupt. Even with a decent number of cleanses, it’s pretty much impossible to be condi free with a necro going at you. And that hasn’t changed with the change of one trait.

It has. If you cleanse the bleed, you are gucci to go.

Exactly. And melt is a strong word unless you meant us.

And before they could cleanse the chill. I don’t see how that’s an argument.

Chill wasn’t our “other” primary damage set, was instant (did more damage up front, and didn’t need stacked every time to deal significant damage) pressure. Our chills also last less time making it easier to remove bleeds. I have a hard time seeing how anyone thinks this isn’t a massive nerf… It’s very logical and simple. o.O

But before if they cleansed, they removed the chill AND the damage. Now they have to remove 2 conditions instead of one to get rid of all the suck they are dealing with.

Before they needed to cleanse chill+bleed, now just bleed.

Wrong. Before they just need to cleanse chill to remove chill damage. I think chill gets removed 1st (someone please verify) now if they remove chill bleed still does damage. Now fear hits with 4 conditions to help cover the damage. I still would rather see Torment instead of bleed but it’s not as bad as I initially thought. I think I’m going to make more of a hybrid with some power but chillomancer isn’t dead as far as I’m concerned.

Since everyone seemed to have ignored this, I’ll reply so you can read it again.

Akrasia.5469:

I was initially horrified by the change to Deathly Chill and all the chill nerfs in general. But after some playtesting I’m seeing that this isn’t as bad as I thought it would be. Chillomancer isn’t the beast it once was BUT there are several benefits to the new system.

1st if you trait correctly then you hit with 4 conditions each time you apply fear (Fear, Chill, Vuln, Bleed) This is panics most low to mid level players and still mentally messes with experienced players who may pop their condi cleanse too soon. Chill alone applies 3 conditions in this set up. If you pair it up with scepter you can apply poison, cripple, and torment. (I know both on the giving AND receiving end, It’s not fun to instantly see 6-7 conditions hit you at once ack)

2nd You can combo with other Necros and even Eles to apply more bleeds so while individually this may be a nerf, its stronger for team play. Which is the main thing as a class we get complaints about (our strong but selfish abilities).

3rd It’s not as big a nerf as I thought. It’s definitely a bigger nerf if you are not a true chillomancer and wanted a little extra burst damage but for chillomancers and hybrids with lots of chill sources you can easily maintain 3-5 extra stacks of bleed(on top of other sources like scepter) in a sustained fight and possibly burst with your damage chain and apply 5-7 stacks.

4th Cleansing Chill doesn’t remove the damage so people need to remove 2 conditions to stop the pain. I think chill get removed 1st (can someone verify) so in the end you maintain damage longer.

So my opinion on this is it’s not the end for condi reaper. We may just have to tweak it to see what we can really do.

Another understands.

Fluffball.8307:

bearshaman.3421:

Whether a weapon is hybrid or not has nothing to do with how you use it. A knife doesn’t cease being sharp because you decided to cut your bread with the back side of it. If the weapon has a mix of good power and condi options in its set of skills, it’s a hybrid weapon. Period. You can use it for a pure power or condi build, but the fact that you can use it for both only proves what I said.

You said that viper or sinister were hybrid, and made no mention of axe. Axe is clearly hybrid, but a viper ranger using axe in PvE is pure condi.

Totally useless semantics, but whatever.

See, I guess to me that isn’t pure condi, because you can still use the autoattack, do decent power damage cuz Viper has power high. You might not choose to, but the option is there.

Edit: If you were doing the same build with Rabid or Dire, that to me would be a pure condi build, because you don’t have the power to make the AA useful.

Dante.1508:

Pride.1734:

scrapper has convinced me that the only real way to expand the engi would be to add more kits

also yes, scrapper is strong and yes its boring as f

And it shows the rest of Engineer builds are absolutely useless…

Welcome to the complaint of literally EVERY class in the game. The elite specs overshadow the base class. This is known.

Eventually they will have more elite specs, and I’m guessing each one will focus on different ways to play the base class, so 5 years from now we will have enough of them for all the builds of the different professions to be recognized. Maybe. Hopefully. Someday.

Thank you for presenting a positive spin on the patch. I was waiting to see if anyone would do what you did. I’m trying to get better playing my guard, but all the QQ doesn’t help.

Zero Day.2594:

Rogue.8235:

…
I don’t play the game, I play the players.

But the players you play are in the game, so to play them you need to play the game.

Unless, you mean, playing someone that’s playing on your account that’s playing players under your name – Then you’re play players, dawg.

You need to know how the game works, yes. But he’s talking about getting inside the player’s heads, so they start playing the game in the way you want them to.