Guild Wars 2

Rush.8253:

bob.8632:

TL/DR: It won’t hurt Devon to get “blownout” (people are acting like he is going to play all day every day….), nor will it shed any more light on WvW problems that the MOS Millennium isn’t already shedding, it will dmg NSP further, all the people suggesting they move up aren’t likely on NSP, and therefore could care less if the silver league destroys their server.

I agree with almost everything you except that “it will not shed any more light.” If I had any choice in the matter I would move Devon to Kaineng and make him play there since the damage to Kaineng is already done. About 8-10 WvW guilds have left since the announcement of leagues and 3 more are planning on moving soon. No, these are not bandwagon guilds either, all the bandwagon guilds left shortly after WM left Kaineng. These are original Kaineng guilds who for the past 4-5 months have had to deal with the fallout of a failed bandwagon and did so admirably.

MOS Millennium is great, metrics are great, stats and number are great. But if you do not see or understand what those mean in practice then they mean nothing. Having Devon play on the rank 15 server in Silver league, even for a limited time may just help him understand what a difference in 200+ rating points really means to matches. And perhaps, just maybe, help him adjust his priorities from WvW ranks and new buffs to the real issue; server and coverage imbalances.

If you still believe the Devon is playing attention to numbers, consider this what the original 2 tier league would look like today. (data: MOS 10/10/13)

Gold
Rank #1 – 2167 Rating
Rank #12 – 1507 Rating
Difference – 660

Silver
Rank #13 – 1488 Rating
Rank #24 – 1062 Rating
Difference – 426

All excellent points, and duly noted. However I am and was speaking of the mindset that they (ANET/Devon) simply do not care that you are outmanned/outgunned.

Oh you are spawn camped? “use the breakout”
The enemy greatly outnumbers you and has bloodlust? “Build more siege”
You need more players on your server? “Have you checked out the recruitment threads?”

These are the things they have said in the past, along with the “WvW is not intended to be balanced”. You guys have to remember they have actual metrics (or at least more metrics than we have access to), they know or have the ability to know when server X fights server Y on average how many players they will field each.

Since WvW is a population/coverage contest, then you can start to see why they likely LONG ago have came to the conclusion that WvW will always have horrible population imbalances.

At the end of the day they simply do not seem to care about population imbalances, and again: any light that is shown on this issue will be far out-shadowed by the destruction it has the potential to do to the server being camped (In this case NSP).

Jackie.1829:

bob.8632:

Also if people are WPing into a keep while you are trying to cap it, that is on you. Someone (1-person even!) should be hitting a gate that is not broken as to keep the place contested, then the window is very small and requires good communication for enemies to WP in, designating a few to camp the WP is also helpful provided you are tapping the gate still.

You can waypoint to the keep while the keep is contested you do know that right?

Please re-read what I wrote, as I clearly stated: “Someone (1-person even!) should be hitting a gate that is not broken as to keep the place contested, then the window is very small and requires good communication for enemies to WP in”

styx.7294:

bob.8632:

styx.7294:

PvE don’t need to transfer ever so let’s not even worry about that.

If we think the problem is that there should be more people transferring off the high WvW population servers to low population servers, let’s just do the direct and simple thing:

Close transfers except to a rotating list of select few low ranked servers.

I wouldn’t agree with that because I know a lot of people that play on higher tiers because they want to be able to play with WvW-minded people, and/or actually have people online to play with in WvW during certain times of day. (Something that higher tiers tend to provide)

Some others enjoy WvW just as much but like the lower pops because of the roaming, and avoiding queues, skill lag, etc.

IMO the biggest problems with transfers right now, assuming we are speaking with leagues in mind, is that ANET should have locked in the matches when they made the announcement that the start date would be extended.

All they did by not locking them in is allowed people to move around to the extent that the ratings will mean a lot less, and in fact might even give ANET an excuse to claim that leagues are viable because of the “upsets” that might occur.

If the situation stayed the way it is, I’d be okay with it but the population inequality is growing. Small servers are getting smaller. The game’s incentives are to play on higher population servers. ET and FC aren’t tier 8 because they got bigger but because other servers are getting smaller.

I’m of the opinion the lower ranks could use more people and the upper ranks could use less people and I support policies that go to that end. Just a bell I wanna ring on the forum.

I agree with you there, I just think that ANET never really intended on people being in WvW 100%. So as people picked their starting servers, they started to realize what type of server they were playing on.

Like you said, the PVE is moot because you can just guest. The reason people transfer is to find a place to play the game mode they like. WvW has the short end of the stick out of the 3 game modes, because it is the only one that really locks you into a server.

I can sPVP with anyone, I can PVE with anyone, but I can only WvW with the folks that are here on the server I chose at launch. There does have to be a way to re-populate the lower tiers, but I think the issue is that every suggestion tends to have some kind of detriment to the other tiers.

Ostra.3927:

I am sorry to the NSP players. I do not want you to suffer… but if there is ANY chance for mr Carver to truly want to change the imbalances, he has to be force to deal with them.

Ehhh the problem is that they already see the scores, they already have people playing in these matches with ANET tags. The man already said they intended it to be “unbalanced”….

I really hate to keep harping on it, but I feel like people think this guy is going to somehow have an epiphany and realize that these “blowouts” really suck because he is no longer seeing it in data form but experiencing it in gameplay.

Is that possible? Sure. But I just feel like the guy will be on for less than 10hrs a week, and running around being a siegemonkey while analyzing game play and mechanics (not really worried that NSP has 20 people and ____has 120. You guys (at least to me) are approaching this in the mindset of “what its like to fight a larger force”, while ANET is looking at everything like: “Build more siege”.

I guess what I am trying to say is that ANET is interested in mechanics, and we are interested in balance.

Obscure One.4357:

bob.8632:

Obscure One.4357:

bob.8632:

ANET has stated they never intended on WvW being a primary method of gameplay.

Therefore, it is not out of the realm of possibility that they never intended on you wanting to gear all of your alts either.

Oh really? Are you sure?

If you can provide me with one source of an ANet developer saying players will have to do content they don’t want to do in order to progress I can provide you with three that contradict it.

What are you on about? Devon the man himself said that people should leave WvW and experience the full game that WvW was not intended to be 100% primary method of gameplay.

You questioning me and changing the subject to ANET’s contradictory nature is basically you wanting to argue about the sky being blue….

Oh no don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to stir up the “they’re liars” argument again. Point is you should put absolutely no stock in what these developers say. They’re more full of kitten than a constipated politician. Judge the game design by how they design it not in how they say they designed it. Their words are meaningless bull kitten it’s their actions and inaction that have made WvW a secondary game mode and dubbed everyone who primarily plays that one mode a second class player.

Devon could show up and outline the entire development scope and explain what ever he feels like explaining to justify the abysmal state of WvW. “Go play PvE bro” is a kitten ing cop-out…what he meant to say is he doesn’t know how to make the PvP game mode of WvW balanced (populations aside), enjoyable, or rewarding enough to be worth anyone’s time.

He has one job! One mother kitten ing job! How are they this kitten ing bad at this?

We are fully in agreement sir.

Obscure One.4357:

bob.8632:

Rigel.5789:

Also not a big fan of how the warbanners work currently, as this thread has shown alot of frustration for.

All this thread has proven is that people will whine about anything….

You could start a thread about there being too many ambient creatures in WvW and people will argue for and against….Don’t get too caught up in forums being worth too much regarding reality.

It would take days for me to compile a list of all the imbalanced skills, bugged skills, clipping issues, imbalanced mechanics, and design oversights. The forums tend to be filled with the exact same complaints refreshed in a new thread every other week. This is not the first time this skill has been called into question by the community, and for obvious reasons, it won’t be the last…likely because some kitten ing genius moderator will move this one to the Warrior sub-forums to die so the WvW sub-forum can give birth to yet another one.

Sure there’s whining going on, and sure it annoys me too, but underneath this QQ there’s an actual problem. Mechanics are being abused all over GW2, sure, but that doesn’t make any of those instances ok, this one included.

I rarely agree with ANET, but the problem I think a lot of people have is that what you see as being “broken” or abused is really how ANET intended it to work.

Not saying that in every instance, but I mean lets be real for a second…

This thread was started by someone raging because 10+ warriors were purposely trolling their blob with banners. If anything it is the exception to the rule, now if the meta shifts to groups of 10+ people solely playing warriors for the purpose of bannering then maybe it should be looked at.

IMO it is VERY VERY far from being abused at this point. It is meant to buy the defending team a bit of time to rally their defense, and 90% of the time that is what it does.

Also if people are WPing into a keep while you are trying to cap it, that is on you. Someone (1-person even!) should be hitting a gate that is not broken as to keep the place contested, then the window is very small and requires good communication for enemies to WP in, designating a few to camp the WP is also helpful provided you are tapping the gate still.

Jesse.4631:

Europe sucks so much man…. and hey when level 80s just run into the zerg i need something else to fight! Surprisingly some upscales fight better then level 80’s lol

It is surprisingly empty on Euro med pops, and I know man I was just giving you a hard time.

Remove siege, leave PVDOOR, or remove siege and doors….Anything that encourages more fights and less siegemonkeys: sign me up.

styx.7294:

PvE don’t need to transfer ever so let’s not even worry about that.

If we think the problem is that there should be more people transferring off the high WvW population servers to low population servers, let’s just do the direct and simple thing:

Close transfers except to a rotating list of select few low ranked servers.

I wouldn’t agree with that because I know a lot of people that play on higher tiers because they want to be able to play with WvW-minded people, and/or actually have people online to play with in WvW during certain times of day. (Something that higher tiers tend to provide)

Some others enjoy WvW just as much but like the lower pops because of the roaming, and avoiding queues, skill lag, etc.

IMO the biggest problems with transfers right now, assuming we are speaking with leagues in mind, is that ANET should have locked in the matches when they made the announcement that the start date would be extended.

All they did by not locking them in is allowed people to move around to the extent that the ratings will mean a lot less, and in fact might even give ANET an excuse to claim that leagues are viable because of the “upsets” that might occur.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Dainank.1308:

I was wondering if there would ever be leagues or tournaments hosted by official companies allowing experienced famous gamers to fight each other over a 2 week long battle in WvWvW?

Probably not with how WvW is currently scored. It is far from an even competition.

Yeah not on the current scale, but if it were set up for maybe 2-4hrs with even teams it has potential, but there would need to be adjustments.

hihey.1075:

KOK.2650:

Zumy.6318:

KOK.2650:

bob.8632:

1. As someone who mains a thief: there are no impressive thieves.
2. “The players killed themselves. That is not how this game is meant to be.”

Why the FK not? If some facerolling spammer is willing to spam themselves to death why is that anyones concern…..People have been saying L2P all along and people like you sir just continue to make excuses and cry nerf…The runes werent OP, because they do nothing if you do nothing, if you faceroll your skills cause you wanna run zerker and pwn some nubs, then you will die….To me there is nothing more “meant to be” than that….

Interrupt by itself do dmg. Head Shot for example can crt up to 3k .

In a condi build? 200-300 dps.

200-300? You full Dire build? Stop joking please.

I never crit for more than 600 on my thief with 95% crit dmg and ~3000 power.
Nice try there, man.

I am not sure, but I think they were talking about full condition spec, not power/zerk thieves.

styx.7294:

bob.8632:

Thank you for all giving us trolls more ideas/ammo (those of us that were not already doing it), this has been suggested already in the past.

The overwhelming consensus that I remember being discussed back then was essentially if someone wants to drop the game and re-log/re-enter/or re-queue to deny a stomp then good on them…

Most people are never going to start doing this on a consistent basis, and more importantly people have been doing it long before bloodlust.

People did it to deny you loot bags but stopped after disconnect in combat counted as a kill and gave a loot bag.

They only just started doin this again to deny you points.

People never stopped doing it…Don’t act like they did sir.

Ragequitters and trolls have been around since there were games to ragequit and troll in…..

Like I said before: MOST people are not going to go through the trouble of doing all of that for the deny…Will some? Sure they will, will it destroy your soul? NOPE.

Rigel.5789:

Also not a big fan of how the warbanners work currently, as this thread has shown alot of frustration for.

All this thread has proven is that people will whine about anything….

You could start a thread about there being too many ambient creatures in WvW and people will argue for and against….Don’t get too caught up in forums being worth too much regarding reality.

styx.7294:

bob.8632:

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

you realize you are wanting revenge on people that bandwagoned off back in april for rolling you over back in, like, january by hoping we stay in silver league after losing enough people over the last month to only be adequate for upper-mid bronze league at best? you realize this right? that tanking is not a purposeful thing that is happening on kaineng?

Not really directed at you personally, just a generalized statement…Most people are not going to feel any sympathy for Kain because they were one of the first bandwagon servers, that by design or accident created all kinds of issues with the old scoring system. They kitten ed a lot of people off along the way, and it is just the way things work that many have sat back and awaited the “fall”.

Now they see you falling and whether you are tanking or settling no one really cares, because of your history, so the thought automatically is that you are trying to manipulate the system even further.

The dilemma you or people like you have is even if you didn’t agree or want the bandwagon transfers: you still “reaped the benefits”, it is true that the people that came and left are the real issue here, but no one is really going to see it that way.

Some of that is ridiculous I know, but does not make it any less true on what people think/believe

I don’t know anyone who sees things that way.

There are very few servers that didn’t have big transfers (whether coming in or leaving) over the last 14 months.

Ahh well I don’t know you, so surely you do not exist…. :P

There are a lot of servers that never got big transfers in but did have big losses.

The point is that many people don’t like bandwagon servers (whether the ‘label’ is justified or not), the same thing will happen when the wheels fully fall off of Dragonwagon.

salocinn.4120:

despite all the loot bags you guys gave him he didn’t get a single exotic, so he moved to europe… No more shadow refuge T_T

Because uplevel zerglings dont drop exotics?

Contiguous.1345:

Lord Kuru.3685:

We’ve been asking for this since the game launched. Probably will never happen.

This.

It’s really funny how often somebody raises one of the same obvious fixes to the same obvious problems that have just been ignored since day #1.

We asked for Colored commander tags, and greyed dead nameplates.

We got trolled with bloodlust and team color changes (ironic) that were supposedly done for color-blind folks, whilst many color blind folks are now saying its harder to differentiate.

Obscure One.4357:

bob.8632:

ANET has stated they never intended on WvW being a primary method of gameplay.

Therefore, it is not out of the realm of possibility that they never intended on you wanting to gear all of your alts either.

Oh really? Are you sure?

If you can provide me with one source of an ANet developer saying players will have to do content they don’t want to do in order to progress I can provide you with three that contradict it.

What are you on about? Devon the man himself said that people should leave WvW and experience the full game that WvW was not intended to be 100% primary method of gameplay.

You questioning me and changing the subject to ANET’s contradictory nature is basically you wanting to argue about the sky being blue….

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

you realize you are wanting revenge on people that bandwagoned off back in april for rolling you over back in, like, january by hoping we stay in silver league after losing enough people over the last month to only be adequate for upper-mid bronze league at best? you realize this right? that tanking is not a purposeful thing that is happening on kaineng?

Not really directed at you personally, just a generalized statement…Most people are not going to feel any sympathy for Kain because they were one of the first bandwagon servers, that by design or accident created all kinds of issues with the old scoring system. They kitten ed a lot of people off along the way, and it is just the way things work that many have sat back and awaited the “fall”.

Now they see you falling and whether you are tanking or settling no one really cares, because of your history, so the thought automatically is that you are trying to manipulate the system even further.

The dilemma you or people like you have is even if you didn’t agree or want the bandwagon transfers: you still “reaped the benefits”, it is true that the people that came and left are the real issue here, but no one is really going to see it that way.

Some of that is ridiculous I know, but does not make it any less true on what people think/believe

Blackjack.2083:

NSP getting stuck in Silver for 8 weeks would be a disaster imo. I would disagree with Dank on the notion that NSP WvW population can’t be damaged further. It has lost a good number of its WvW playerbase over time and from what I’ve seen we have not come anywhere close to replacing those lost. It’s one thing to endure through a week or two, perhaps even three, of bad matches but to know you will be facing 8 weeks of being utterly outmanned is too much.

I agree with you on the notion that most just want a good fight on NSP but those won’t be found that often in Silver League. I’d argue our population isn’t that great even for bronze league but it isn’t anywhere close to being in the same realm as what Silver League servers have. Our numbers will simply be too few not to mention the terrible coverage gaps we will have. We’ve been screwed over by Kaening before during their march up from T8 and I certainly don’t want to see them get away with it again as they try their best to tank these last few matches. I love NSP, WvW is all I do and I do it everyday, no way I’m going to waste 8 weeks playing in Silver though….not with our numbers.

I think you have an excellent grasp on the situation.

I would also like to add a few points:

-Devon Carver getting spawn camped on NSP while in the silver league would do next to nothing for the long-term development of WvW.
-In fact most people suggesting this are doing so out of spite and not even concerned with NSP’s server in the long run.
-Some on NSP might think they want the silver league for the “big fights”, but don’t kid yourselves: there will be more people in WvW on every server once leagues start. The staleness will be gone during the first few weeks, so every fairweather/PVE’er around will be there to get cred for their “reward”.
-The added population boost will affect already heavily populated WvW-based servers more, and thus will make the gap between bronze/silver/gold even further.

TL/DR: It won’t hurt Devon to get “blownout” (people are acting like he is going to play all day every day….), nor will it shed any more light on WvW problems that the MOS Millennium isn’t already shedding, it will dmg NSP further, all the people suggesting they move up aren’t likely on NSP, and therefore could care less if the silver league destroys their server.

(People on NSP need to think long and hard next week, on how they want to approach this moving forward)

Thank you for all giving us trolls more ideas/ammo (those of us that were not already doing it), this has been suggested already in the past.

The overwhelming consensus that I remember being discussed back then was essentially if someone wants to drop the game and re-log/re-enter/or re-queue to deny a stomp then good on them…

Most people are never going to start doing this on a consistent basis, and more importantly people have been doing it long before bloodlust.

Brigg.3961:

KOK.2650:

bob.8632:

1. As someone who mains a thief: there are no impressive thieves.
2. “The players killed themselves. That is not how this game is meant to be.”

Why the FK not? If some facerolling spammer is willing to spam themselves to death why is that anyones concern…..People have been saying L2P all along and people like you sir just continue to make excuses and cry nerf…The runes werent OP, because they do nothing if you do nothing, if you faceroll your skills cause you wanna run zerker and pwn some nubs, then you will die….To me there is nothing more “meant to be” than that….

So you think the one hitting you with confusion are going to stand there spamming interrupt and nothing else?
Interrupt by itself do dmg. Head Shot for example can crt up to 3k .
The main problem with this rune is it forced people to do nothing.
Get attack to death while not able to do anything is NOT FUN AT ALL.
If it isn’t OP, why should you care if it nerf. Just get other rune and continue.

I been using it on my mesmer, it is OP as hell in 1 vs 1~3 combat.
Sure it is less useful in zerg fight (with clean flying around) , but that doesn’t mean it is OK.

First off, just because you might main a thief doesn’t make Mr. Bandito’s skills less impressive to me. Fail attempt in trying to create that argument.

Second, if things like perplexity are added to the game in order to smush the little “facerolling spammers,” where does the skill lie on your part? Skills that can be easily spammed should not be countered with skills that can be easily spammed. In fact, those are the skills that need to be reconsidered in the first place (I assume you are referring to heartseeker, autoattack, and the like). I can guarantee that when you first started the game, you spammed skills as well. When you moved on to wvw or pvp, you entered a whole new experience. You shouldn’t need perplex runes to defeat new players.

I completely agree with KOK. I love these runes on my mesmer, and will love them even more once they function the way they should really function. The 6-piece should have a CD, and the duration increase needs to work. If you are using perplexity runes simply because of the novelty exploit, and plan on changing them because they won’t allow you to troll around anymore, I’d say the change will be more than worth it.

Finally, this is not a nerf. The runes are bugged, plain and simple. They came out the same time as the torment runes, which were corrected almost immediately to have a CD… even though the 6-piece didn’t drop a ton of torment stacks on your head.

Anyone defending the current state of perplexity runes simply needs to reassess their own playing skills and not the lack of others’.

Opinions are opinions, playing an easy class (which admittedly I do too), does not make someone “good”. Thieves are fun to play because they can control a fight 99% of the time.

My point was that there are no awesome thieves, there are just thieves and bad thieves.

As to what is impressive to you, I have no doubt you are impressed by said person. The problem with this game is people do not know what balance really is, and they equate it to every class being able to stand toe-to-toe and duel each other no matter the build/gear/player skill level.

So the first time they run into a Apo-Warrior, or a Perplex thief/engi, and they lose a 1v1: it must be OP. Because in everyone’s mind they are all “good players”. The reality is that most of the player base is average, a very small % are actually “good”. And the rest just run gimmicks (Apo warriors/every thief build/etc) very well.

The other HUGE, and I mean HUGE problem is that people refuse to run from a fight and think of everything in terms of 1v1. If my build has a weakness and I run into a player whose build exploits said weakness: I drop the fight. I understand I won’t beat every build, but I can survive every fight if I don’t let my ill-perceived sense of skill get the better of me.

Brigg.3961:

scootshoot.6583:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.
.

Youtube videos never help in this matter… Like that dumb player sharing a link of him fighting with fireworks in his hand thinking it’s funny,…. enjoy your future nerf pal.

Uhh… he made that video to showcase how crazy perplex runes currently are. The dumb player fighting with fireworks happens to be one of the most impressive thieves in this game. If you knew how a thief worked, you would be impressed. All he used was scorpion wire and basilisk venom for interrupts. The players killed themselves. That is not how this game is meant to be.

I’m happy for the change. I believe it was a simple oversight initially and am happy to see it being looked at!

1. As someone who mains a thief: there are no impressive thieves.
2. “The players killed themselves. That is not how this game is meant to be.”

Why the FK not? If some facerolling spammer is willing to spam themselves to death why is that anyones concern…..People have been saying L2P all along and people like you sir just continue to make excuses and cry nerf…The runes werent OP, because they do nothing if you do nothing, if you faceroll your skills cause you wanna run zerker and pwn some nubs, then you will die….To me there is nothing more “meant to be” than that….

All together now: M-I-C-K-E-Y , M-O-U-S-E

dank.3680:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Lots of people wanna “punish” Devon, and I get that…But this will be at the expense of NSP, 7 weeks of getting zerged by silver-leaguers will likely do more damage to that server than to Mr. Carver.

At the end Devon might learn something from it, but that server could be in bad shape, and Devon won’t be there anymore but the NSP player base will have to deal with the repercussions.

In the end it likely will come down to next week’s match-up…It was a great thing to realign the leagues, it was an equally terrible idea to not “lock-in” the matches at that announcement; instead giving servers/people 3 weeks to transfer/tank/etc to manipulate whatever legitimacy this “league” nonsense was going to have in the first place.

Seriously you spend all these months with randomized matchups gathering data, and in 1-months time it will literally be 50% garbage because the players are moving server to server and manipulating it all…..

You cant do damage to NSP.. We have been beaten and battered time and again, nothing ever changes, people don’t transfer in or out here for the most part. The people on this server are dedicated and like the tough fights. Most don’t even care if we win or lose just if we have fun fights… In fact I hear much more complaining when we get an easy match because it is boring.. The truth is, steamrolling Bronze is what could actually damage the server.

We shall see.

Nuzt.7894:

So you want to be able to avoid a Que, which in turn means someone participating gets the boot ? Makes perfect sense, I really have zero sympathy, I’m guessing your on JQ/BG/SoR/TC ?

This is what happens when servers stack, enjoy your Que.

Nm I see your on an EU, your right people will flock to bigger server with lots of action but big servers with lots of action come with a cost, Ques are one of these costs.\

Again Enjoy your Que.

bob.8632:

1. ANET never intended on WvW being a primary method of gameplay.
2. As such they never allowed for players picking a server based on “WvW population”.
3. Once players started to figure this out they “corrected” the error by migrating to servers with higher wvw-populations.
4. Along the way people that wanted to “win” a meaningless contest also migrated.
5. Servers began filling up, queues got worse, skill lag got worse.

5a. People ignorantly blame hightier players for “stacking”.
5b. Some people realize it is just as much ANET’s fault as the players.

Obscure One.4357:

bob.8632:

Obscure One.4357:

Sure, plenty of PuGs try and fail, but in organized groups which are more common the closer their tier number gets to 1, this tactic is par for the course. Voice comms, pre-established Mesmer veil, portal chains, and Warrior banner rotations are an integral part of how the guild I belong to, and guilds that run with us, operate.

To balance a game ignoring the players who’re squeezing every ounce of efficiency out of their builds and team composition is balancing for the lowest common denominator often resulting in incidentally making these players even more potent than they already are (I.E. Warriors) which causes more imbalance than you had to begin with.

Well coordinated groups, doing well coordinated things successfully is a sign of a success not a sign of an issue, more times than not.

I’d show you some old books about a well coordinated group doing well coordinated things but they were written in the late 1930’s and early 40’s and they’re all in German…

Sure a bit over dramatic, but the point is just because it can be done doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a good thing to be doing. Banner chaining long enough for reinforcements to arrive every 3 minutes is not what I think they had in mind for these massive SM fights. If this is working as intended then it doesn’t say positive things about their intentions.

I always equate Warbannering with kitten-Germany.

Devon the Dev is on record as saying: “Kill the warrior”.

Storm Sunstarr.8470:

“fuzzy paw of peace” . Cheer!

As opposed to a piece of fuzzy paw.

Draygo.9473:

bob.8632:

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

bob.8632:

You might be surprised how many numbers you would “magically” have should you fall into the bronze league….BTW what guilds did you lose? [CNB] was a fairly large guild, but a couple of the others I saw claiming to want to leave were not that big numbers wise(coming from someone who faced them in WvW).

You’d have a field day with the bags is what would happen. We are mostly a PvE server now, so when we get fairweathers I sincerely doubt they’d hinder organized enemy pushes much if at all. Do you get more than 5 people in server comms during prime? Congrats, you’re more organized than us on the average day.

We lost CnB and Rx to SoS, they are organized 10-15 raiding guilds and mostly all we had in that department. We also lost 4 or so more smaller guilds to various gold league servers. Not big, no, but it adds up, you know that down in these lower tiers. We’re right now inundated with a bunch of randoms that haven’t learned how to work together yet; we need the bronze league to sort that out. I think the biggest consequence of leagues is that it pits low tier servers against each other in another, uglier way. No one wants to die and burn out at the bottom of their league. Except Maguuma, who is immortal.

Remember, having just “some NA” while having decent oceanic/EU wins lower tier matches. Because some lower tiers have low pop at NA, but none have any oceanic coverage to speak of. Not sure what you guys lost in that department.

I may be wrong but I do not think you will drop to bronze, because many of the servers in bronze had already prepared for lower-silvers to attempt a “tanking”. The bronze league is already imbalanced enough from the top-bottom in comparison, the last thing we need is more of it. Hopefully after the leagues stuff you population lines out and you guys end up at the tier/level you should really be.

And you are wrong.

Kaineng has caused more issues with matchups, tiers, etc than any other server in this game’s short history due to your systematic rise and falls. (Afterall wasn’t it Kain that created that T8 nightmare that left SF/ET/FC stuck there for so long?) So with that in mind, I can only hope that you guys get a ROFL-stomp match next week that blocks your fall, and you are forced to live with “what you get” instead of constantly being able to manipulate the system (on purpose or not).

Blix.8021:

bob.8632:

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.

I am loling at the people that spent the money for these as they will likely be useless because of poor testing, and the likely overboard nerf.

They’re only a gold and a half.

Really? They have always been 1.5g? Or were they more before people realized that ANET would have to nerf them due to forum outrage?

ANET has stated they never intended on WvW being a primary method of gameplay.

Therefore, it is not out of the realm of possibility that they never intended on you wanting to gear all of your alts either.

Obscure One.4357:

Sure, plenty of PuGs try and fail, but in organized groups which are more common the closer their tier number gets to 1, this tactic is par for the course. Voice comms, pre-established Mesmer veil, portal chains, and Warrior banner rotations are an integral part of how the guild I belong to, and guilds that run with us, operate.

To balance a game ignoring the players who’re squeezing every ounce of efficiency out of their builds and team composition is balancing for the lowest common denominator often resulting in incidentally making these players even more potent than they already are (I.E. Warriors) which causes more imbalance than you had to begin with.

Well coordinated groups, doing well coordinated things successfully is a sign of a success not a sign of an issue, more times than not.

1. ANET never intended on WvW being a primary method of gameplay.
2. As such they never allowed for players picking a server based on “WvW population”.
3. Once players started to figure this out they “corrected” the error by migrating to servers with higher wvw-populations.
4. Along the way people that wanted to “win” a meaningless contest also migrated.
5. Servers began filling up, queues got worse, skill lag got worse.

5a. People ignorantly blame hightier players for “stacking”.
5b. Some people realize it is just as much ANET’s fault as the players.

Just another proof positive, that if you whine enough ANET will nerf it.

I am loling at the people that spent the money for these as they will likely be useless because of poor testing, and the likely overboard nerf.

styx.7294:

Only reason Sorrow’s Furnace isn’t gettin more points is ‘cause after they flip it they don’t stay and guard it so we still end up holding it most of the time.

^

Everything is a zerg when you can only count to potato, and pets count as potatoes.

posting to make 2nd page show up

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

bob.8632:

You might be surprised how many numbers you would “magically” have should you fall into the bronze league….BTW what guilds did you lose? [CNB] was a fairly large guild, but a couple of the others I saw claiming to want to leave were not that big numbers wise(coming from someone who faced them in WvW).

You’d have a field day with the bags is what would happen. We are mostly a PvE server now, so when we get fairweathers I sincerely doubt they’d hinder organized enemy pushes much if at all. Do you get more than 5 people in server comms during prime? Congrats, you’re more organized than us on the average day.

We lost CnB and Rx to SoS, they are organized 10-15 raiding guilds and mostly all we had in that department. We also lost 4 or so more smaller guilds to various gold league servers. Not big, no, but it adds up, you know that down in these lower tiers. We’re right now inundated with a bunch of randoms that haven’t learned how to work together yet; we need the bronze league to sort that out. I think the biggest consequence of leagues is that it pits low tier servers against each other in another, uglier way. No one wants to die and burn out at the bottom of their league. Except Maguuma, who is immortal.

Remember, having just “some NA” while having decent oceanic/EU wins lower tier matches. Because some lower tiers have low pop at NA, but none have any oceanic coverage to speak of. Not sure what you guys lost in that department.

I may be wrong but I do not think you will drop to bronze, because many of the servers in bronze had already prepared for lower-silvers to attempt a “tanking”. The bronze league is already imbalanced enough from the top-bottom in comparison, the last thing we need is more of it. Hopefully after the leagues stuff you population lines out and you guys end up at the tier/level you should really be.

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

2 weeks ago we still had the guilds that left so that part is not really an apt assessment. I think given a rematch you would find KN more comparable in numbers to SF, at least on reset. We are a ghost town during the week, mostly pug groups that are not organized.

You might be surprised how many numbers you would “magically” have should you fall into the bronze league….BTW what guilds did you lose? [CNB] was a fairly large guild, but a couple of the others I saw claiming to want to leave were not that big numbers wise(coming from someone who faced them in WvW).

So tired of the “Kaineng” dropping talk…Stop trying to tank to get in the bronze league…

ORLLY? you lost guilds?
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/45/105

2 weeks ago you rolled SF by nearly 150k, and SF would be near the top “tier” of the bronze league.

Even with your “guild losses” the matches would still be greatly in your favor. There will be more players playing when league starts for you than currently is whilst getting steamrolled by SBI. That is just the nature of the fairweather.

NSP you need to make sure you stay in the first slot of the bronze league, while many believe Kain/YB are outnumbered greatly by SBI, we do not believe you would be even remotely compatible with the bronze league population wise

Sororita.3465:

bob.8632:

Sororita.3465:

bob.8632:

As the GL of [RUN] (SF version), I just wanted to say that the opinions expressed by King are not those of RUN. I can assure you that behavior like this will not be tolerated and he will be dealt with accordingly.

O thank god, Here on IoJ [RUN] we take these matters very seriously, i recommend that you take away with sneakers and ground him to a chair in the corner. Only good boys and girls get to run.

No worries mate! We are a small guild that does not care for the “forum warring”, in fact more than likely we will give him his walking papers today once a meeting of High Council votes. Sorrow’s Furnace (and by extension [RUN]) is made of fine upstanding individuals that take things like this very seriously for the most part, and that is what we wish to convey.

Anyhow, just wanted to say sorry again and take care!

I commend you for your attitude good sir, if only everyone took things as seriously as you then im sure we’d all be in a better place. Id hate to see him expelled out of sf [RUN], the [RUN] name is a time honored tradition and a forgiving one. I formally request that he be given another chance.

Let him run free.

It will be put to a vote of the Guild Council, thank you again for your understanding relating to this serious matter!

Have fun!

Sororita.3465:

bob.8632:

As the GL of [RUN] (SF version), I just wanted to say that the opinions expressed by King are not those of RUN. I can assure you that behavior like this will not be tolerated and he will be dealt with accordingly.

O thank god, Here on IoJ [RUN] we take these matters very seriously, i recommend that you take away with sneakers and ground him to a chair in the corner. Only good boys and girls get to run.

No worries mate! We are a small guild that does not care for the “forum warring”, in fact more than likely we will give him his walking papers today once a meeting of High Council votes. Sorrow’s Furnace (and by extension [RUN]) is made of fine upstanding individuals that take things like this very seriously for the most part, and that is what we wish to convey.

Anyhow, just wanted to say sorry again and take care!

As the GL of [RUN] (SF version), I just wanted to say that the opinions expressed by King are not those of RUN. I can assure you that behavior like this will not be tolerated and he will be dealt with accordingly.