Guys, there is a (very limited) crossover between PvP and PvE: dye. Dyes unlocked for a character are shared between both sections of the game.
You can forge (and occasionally find in reward chests) the PvP account-bound Unidentified Dyes. They’re not usable in the mystic forge and can’t be traded, so their only function is identifying to get a dye consumable.
I’ve recently gotten both Black and Abyss dyes by buying reward chests, salvaging the contents, and using the resulting PvP upgrade components to craft unidentidyes. Value for Abyss on the trading post was about 30g at the time. This is quite a bit of coin.
Some people are saying they’d rather get PvP kit to fill up their locker, but you can’t really have a complete collection without access to the wide variety of colours available!
I’d personally like to see more methods for obtaining dye colours in PvP, be this through coin rewards so you can buy on the TP, or more ways to get unidentified (or even unidentified of a certain hue or rarity) dyes through PvP play. Duplicates obtained can be recycled in the forge, used on other characters, or sold to fund the purchase of other dyes.
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Why not add a /resign command like there was in gw1?
Red Resign
While I’d really like folks to be able to concede defeat, resign command would be very hard to do right. You have to reward the winning team with sufficient glory and rank, but you don’t want folks to be able to go into an arena and resign at each other all day, gaining zero-effort ranks.
Limiting resign to ranked matches might be possible, but I can see it frustrating people who come up against, say, an organised guild team - some players want to give up straight away and others want to fight it out, so you’ll get more AFKers and quitters who selfishly ignore the fight when their whole team doesn’t also resign.
On this note, there’s something I’d quite like to be implemented if possible: an audible notification when my queued match is up.
Quite often while waiting for a match, I’ll alt-tab to other programs and I expect that many other people do this too. Having a unique sound play (similar to those made for incoming party requests and PMs) would I hope drastically reduce the number of players accidentally missing the start of their matches, as it draws attention to the matchup almost two minutes before the game begins.
Oh yes, vapour form is loot-tastic - if I’m in WvW in the middle of nowhere it’s great to be able to grab those drops instead of leave them on the other side of the map from my spawn.
cheshirefox: Yeah you really do need to improve - none of your downed skills are on cooldown! A bit more vulnerability or immob/bleed on foes can really help your allies, y’know!
Kuddlekins: That’s pretty cool, I knew that the camera sometimes detached from the back of my head but wasn’t sure how it worked. I’m still sometimes messing up and rolling backwards, but the method is pretty sound and I’m sure I’ll get it reliable with more practice.
I run glyphs, so always have 10 in air to shorten recharges - used to run Inscription as well but the boons aren’t really worth it in my opinion. Possibly if running 30 points in Air, not really thought about that yet.
If you’re staff you can maintain swiftness comfortably with Quick Glyphs and 30 points in arcana. Windborne Speed gives ~43% uptime and GoEH gives 65% uptime, giving you a couple of seconds after recharge before you have to cast each skill.
Oh, and you can share a /lot/ of swiftness with Eruption/Static Field then Windborne Speed. Add more blast finishers from Arcane Wave or your allies to make the most of the only lightning field that counts!
Actually I’m quite liking this thread - is great to see something in ele forum, particularly for staff, that isn’t ’qq I can’t use buggy or op skills to pwn everyone, ele sux’.
My contribution:
- Air 2 isn’t an instant blind to use against incoming attacks, but it /is/ a long-range AoE blind with some healthy damage to boot. Useful for easing pressure on allies while you stay relatively safe at a bit of a distance or on your way into a fight.
- Glyph of Elemental Power + Meteor Shower gives that bit more burning damage to our strongest pure damage skill; cast the glyph in Earth or Water for some snaring instead. For skills with multiple AoE ticks like Frozen Ground, you can apply glyph’s conditions pretty regularly on top of the skill’s own effects.
- Gust is wildly inaccurate at range unless against PvE mobs, but most classes won’t dodge it nearly so reliably if you cast close to them. As with ThiBash’s mention of Windborne Speed, save it until you need some space, rather than waste it before you’re in danger.
- Magnetic Aura is surprisingly effective for communing. Glyph of Storms in Earth will apply several blinds, so a combination of the two will allow you to get at almost every PvE communing point without even having to kill things first.
So it’s been bugging me for rather a while now that some glyphs take the element for their attunement-based effects at the end of casting, while others do this at the start. This means that if you switch attunements from, say, earth to fire while casting a glyph, the Glyphs of Elementals/Glyph of Elemental Harmony will summon a fire elemental/grant you might, but the Glyph of Storms/Glyph of Renewal will call up a sandstorm/revive three allies. I can’t remember what the Glyph of Elemental Power took as the relevant attunement but that’s not relevant anymore.
I’ve gotten used to how they work but I’m irked by the inconsistency. I’m also rather curious as to how folks feel about the different ‘choices’ of attunement – I feel that I’d rather they all took the ending attunement for effects, but haven’t put much thought into how that would affect builds that regularly use our glyphs.
*BUGGED TRAITS*
---
_*Air Magic*_
*Inscription* -- _Function Issue_
Does not grant a boon when used in conjunction with Glyph of Elementals Elite.
Yeah so I just tested, and this also no longer works with Glyph of Elemental Power, probably because the skill was changed in the stunbreak update.
EDIT: Oh, and this is just in PvP, I’ve not tested in PvE and won’t be retraiting there to do it for a while. Someone running with 20 points in air want to test this PvE-wise?
EDIT EDIT: okay yeah I’m an idiot, I hadn’t actually traited into inscription. It’s working as before, just Glyph of Elementals that’s borked.
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On a related note, why don’t eles use Ice Bow in the hrapy fractal?
Its #4 is insanely strong on those small platforms because if there are no other places for the icicles to fall to, they are all going to fall on that tiny platform and 90% of them will hit the Harpy.
It owns harpies if I use it on my thief – multiple 4k+ crits per second.
If you like using a particular conjure weapon on a particular map, and you’ve got an ele in your party… ask if they’d summon it? I’m more than happy to call up a frost bow if someone wants to use one, and most folks should be able to swap out one of their utilities without ruining their builds.
Hi,
I just crafted a Chieftan’s Mace to push myself from 199-200 weaponsmithing and see what it was like, and then went to the trading post to see what it’d sell for. It appears as per my attachment in the ‘sell on trading post’ window, and it’s very definitely the mace – changing the items that were in my inventory, I could replicate the effects with the only common factor being the mace.
I assume you refer to the royal ‘we’ since you cant speak for darkace who still didnt proved me wrong. i suggest you stop your wisecracking and present your stats and evidence to your statements and stop projecting your subjective view on others.
Sid, you are the only person who insists on going on about this – I am going to stop replying now because you clearly don’t get it. There has been proper discussion in this thread, and you have been involved in very little of it. Please stop.
EDIT: dammit, I want a thread view so’s I can easily quote more than one person in one reply.
SilverUniverse: eeeee. There are numerous excellent references to gw1 already, the odd extra one here and there would be wonderful. I’m sad that I missed out on most of the gw1 april foolses >_<
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<<I removed a bunch of other relevant stuff from this quote, this is just to save space and keep the page readable rather than to ignore it.>>
ok, my standpoint was from WvW, not PvP. i should have stated that to begin with. i know how important a second can be in PvP since it literally is the difference between life and death. and i can definitely appreciate they didn’t have a knee-jerk reaction and make something OP just to be nerfed a moment later
but from my perspective, in WvW, everything feels pretty much the same apart from gust/meteor/rain. obviously this is because it’s not PvP, where i’d have to defend a point by myself at times or be the main target of a burst. i can’t comment much on PvP much since i don’t play that any more, but i do agree with you that it was an improvement that was needed
below is my interpretation of buff/fix/etc.
*OP* - too powerful for what it should be
*buff* - abilities have improved to the point where change is very noticeable and makes it more viable for use or allows greater variety
*fix* - improvement from before. noticeable, but does not change much to what is currently available and does not change gameplay greatly. skill works as how it was intended
*<no change to skills>*
*fix* - a skill was a bit too powerful for what it is or where it was, but still viable and works how it should
*nerf/UP* - skill or ability was reduced to the point where there is little to no reason to have, other than in extremely situational areas if at allso in this interpretation, from your perspective in PvP, this update is a buff. the change is very noticeable and staff users can do more in the same amount of time. but in my perspective in WvW, not much has changed for me to notice apart from the 3 skills i mentioned earlier
aka everyone’s a winner we all get a free car woo
Oh right, cool, sorry! I glossed over what you were saying about WvW because I was entirely in PvP mode I guess. My apologies.
I agree, again, with your list of ’how I think of changes made to skills’ - they all make sense. I haven’t played all that much WvW, and am sad that I have to either just use my PvE build there or constantly re-spec things for an appreciable amount of coin. Gotta say that staff still appeals to me more than other ele weapons for WvW, due to group sizes, though that says nothing as for how good it is compared to other professions’ builds.
EDIT: oh aye, though you missed one thing from your list: S-booning. It’s like three steps worse than nerfing and I find it hilarious for some reason.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter's_Boon_
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It’s “Jack of all trades”.
/grammarlesson
I choose to believe that the OP was making a pun about trait lines. I like to think that other people make as many terrible jokes as I do, even if they don’t mean to! ^__^
well i didnt throw it into the discussion, darkace did. I just find it hilarious that you and darkace, who obviously misinterpret empiricism, used it out of context to prove your point.
We didn’t use it at all to argue points – we only mentioned it because unverifiable statements were repeatedly being made and not backed up. It’s hard to have meaningful discussion when half of one side of the thread is effectively contributing nothing then claiming that they’re right because of it.
EtchenSketch: I read your post, and will probably reply properly at some point tonight, ta. I will admit to not having as much proper tPvP experience as I’d like, and I ought to find a decent PvP guild to get into it and not have to rely on random matchups for my fix.
On that note, most of what I’ve been saying is based on the lower-tier PvP that I’m still in, and that which I’ve garnered from watching other matches. A lot of map and position control stops being team-based when your team is randoms who keep three people capping an uncontested point while the other team ganks your lord and caps the rest of the map, or runs an orb, or otherwise takes advantage of poorly organised play.
This is what I’m running (working towards the gear or something like it, not been playing allll that long).
Glyph of Storms is absolutely wonderful around general PvE, because in Earth Attunement it causes AoE blind every few seconds, negating the vast majority of attacks. For dealing with larger mobs I tend to summon a couple of elementals (usually earth just because I start in that) run in and aggro, with Magnetic Aura up if there’re dangerous projectiles, then Glyph of Storms and lay down Eruption, Lava Font, Arcane Wave – which means 7 stacks of might on myself and my summons while foes are balling up and blinded.
The full clerical equipment is pretty unnecessary, and means you lose out on a lot of damage output, but it means you have pretty impressive AoE heals – anyway you can swap that for whatever you particularly want I guess?
Oh, and my backpiece is an ascended Sclerite Karka Shell, which that build site doesn’t have listed yet.
While none of the trait buffs (and one debuff) are in the water trait line, I can’t think of a good way to vary from the 0/10/0/30/30… for solo running around I might possibly spec that last 10 points from water into air and get Air VIII (Inscription), because more attunement boons mean that you can stack so much swiftness while between battles or a bucketload of personal might while in fire attunement.
Also I might swap my glyph of lesser elementals for Glyph of Elemental Power soon enough to toy with, since I rather want a stun breaker and now there’re (yey) non-cantrip ones. Signet of air, while useful for its passive speed boost and instant blind (and now stun break) is unnecessary when you can maintain swiftness (which is easy enough with a staff, and can actually be done to allies as well with this build), and the blind doesn’t really help with mobs coming from several directions.
Um… yeah I’m not going to be good at describing most of my play style, it’s kinda hard to explain. At any rate, moving about a lot and dodging in every attunement regularly is really important to this build – you get an extra blast finisher from dodging in Earth, an AoE blind in air, a heal in water and foom! FIARR while in fire. Because wheee fire.
(Oh aye, combos. Lots of them. Coomboooos.)
Empirical evidence is a source of knowledge acquired by means of observation and i observed that there are less and less Eles to find since the mistform/rtl nerf. Its based on my personal experience. I said nothing about staff eles other then they are nonexistent in spvp. Is this empircal enough for you?
Oh, I replied to this and it mis-posted. Was wondering why I had a post of empty quote tags to Sid.
Anyway, aye, I’ll re-say what it was:
NO. No, no, no. That is not even slightly ‘empirical enough’ for me, or anyone else.
That is anecdotal evidence.
You are saying something that you claim to have observed. You have no proof of what you’re claiming at all. You don’t have a link to official Anet stats on what builds are (and have been) getting used where, you don’t have a log that you or anyone else has kept of every sPvP team they’ve been on (with data from both well before and after any changes to staff ele). You can’t back up the claim that you’re making at all, so it is entirely anecdotal evidence that you are providing.
Unless you can prove, in some way, that there are genuinely fewer people playing staff ele in sPvP than previously – and saying “I’ve not noticed as many” is not proof – then you’re stating unverifiable conjecture as fact and it can be safely ignored by anyone wanting to have a reasonable discussion.
The problem that we’re having with your posts is that you really don’t understand what you’re talking about. You’re throwing around ‘empirical evidence’ like it’s a new word that you want to show off. Like the assistant manager that keeps saying ‘synergy’ and kitten ing off their team because it’s not even slightly relevant to what the team is doing.
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so cast times as a whole by those skills are reduced by an entire 1.42 seconds. great. 1.42 seconds. i can cast an entire auto-attack with that with 0.02 seconds to spare.
<<I removed a bunch of other relevant stuff from this quote, this is just to save space and keep the page readable rather than to ignore it.>>
There are a lot of very minor changes made to staff times, yes. Major changes… tend not to go well. I much prefer small tweaks to try and balance things than something larger that ends up needing nerfed again a month later because it’s found to be overpowered. A little over a second doesn’t sound like long at all, but with the pace at which fights take place, a single second is still an awful lot of time to gain. I can immobilise someone with shockwave and have a moment longer to get off my gust and push them away – that moment of improvement means that they have slightly less time to get off a condition removal and dodge my gust.
The same goes for a very slightly longer unsteady ground – that’s another second in which people can get crippled, which I’d argue is often better. Conditions can be removed, AoE fields on the ground can’t. WvW stragglers… eh. WvW plays absolutely nothing like sPvP, at least when you have zergs involved.
just because something wasn’t nerfed doesn’t mean it was buffed. if RTL didn’t have terrain issues any more it would be called a ‘fix’ or an ‘improvement’. a ‘buff’ would be an increase in range or damage, or have additional effects that were otherwise not previously there.
I can definitely agree with what you say about RTL, that making it more functional in all the situations that it doens’t work at you’d expect would be a fix. The same goes for how you define a buff… apart from that you apparently don’t see the value in a few moments more to chain attacks in. Improving cast/aftercast/recharge times really is buffing, in the same way as upping damage or other effects are. A buff is any change to a skill that makes it more useful than previously – while changes in functionality can sometimes be argued to be buffs, usually I wouldn’t consider that to be the case.
A staff ele has potentially 4 heals. His ranged heals are healing rain and geyser. Geyser heals 800hp. Healing rain heals 2080 and cures 2 conditions if they are in the rain for the duration. The other heals are from changing attunements and dodging to allies during combat. This is where the problem sets in. An ele gets his survivability from movement, which staff has the least. For a staff ele to be the most effective healer, he has to be next to his teammates. And if he’s in the thick of the battle, he’s going to get caught in enemy AoE’s. If he’s playing ranged and AoE’ing enemies, the heals are wasted.
The necro takes advantage of both situations because he is effective at close ranged and long range because he does not rely on movement. Being able to place wells at his feet along with death shroud gives him his tanky ability. His minions also absorb damage for his allies.
In terms of DPS, staff ele’s mainly deal pure damage along with some fire condi. Where as necros stack bleeds, poisons, chills, etc. Condition damage is far superior in controlling fights.
Does the ele bring things to the table, yes. But in a 5v5 tPvP match with 8 classes, you need to prioritize. And a necro is simply worth more than a few heals and a couple condi. removes.
Mentioning minions on the necro (none of which are weapon skills, I don’t think?) while discounting the non-weapon-skills and traits of the ele for their heals or other points is a bit silly, so let’s go back to the healing ability but including other skills and traits.
You have your two ranged heals, which are water fields. You can combo one blast finisher (eruption) into those really very easily, and target this near yourself or an ally or both. So that’s one more heal on staff already.
With arcane wave, you have another blast finisher that’s incredibly easy to pull off – you can do this while casting another skill, if you so wish. Then there’s switching to earth attunement from water, rather than from – if you do that, you can use evasive arcana to land a blast finisher (so an AoE heal) anywhere in the water fields. Or just dodge in water for a different AoE heal with that trait specced. Staff eles certainly have more than four heals available, due to their ability to create many combos.
And re: minions, there’s the fun of the ele’s summons, which will provide some dps and support and about the same level of distraction as minions to any reasonable opponent – and they all have pretty useful skills for management of the battlefield, even though these skills aren’t player-controlled. The water one even gives you another heal! Smart use of these can really turn a battle, and though they’re not at all necessary to play a decent staff, they really do help in skirmishes and 1v1s to keep things fairer.
(On the subject of non-weapon-skills, there’re also, uh, the summoned weapons. Which give entirely different ways to deal with foes, and mean that you’re /not/ limited to just staff-range attacks)
If your ele is out of the thick of the battle, they presumably don’t need as many heals as whoever’s, say, fighting within a capture point – so why is their inability to target heals both at an ally and themself important? Staying out of the brawl and staying mobile means that you’re probably not taking nearly as much damage as whoever’s actually inside the capture point, so you should be focusing heals on them and not needing to worry about yourself.
sPvP is all about where you are and controlling an area, so while DPS is really important in many ways, managing the space around you and staying alive is much more necessary – being able to keep people out of a point for long enough to neutralise it means that the enemy stops gaining points from it. We have chill, (now very slightly more) cripple, immobilise, stun, knockback. All on our staff. All now AoE. That’s a lot of moving about that we can negate or delay, keeping capture points to ourselves or our teammates, and allowing us to kite about even more.
And as for the damage output itself: yes, it’s bad. I’ve said already, the staff is an AoE weapon. so while it has hella good damage output against a large group, it’s just not for killing single targets with. It is a control weapon, with some minor but non-negligible pressure damage and as much support as you can shake a staff at.
Theory and practice. Quoting all the update notes and demanding statistics about statements proves what exactly?
talking about reason and rationality…
That the staff wasn’t nerfed. In practice those changes might not make the weapon better, but they sure as hell didn’t make it worse.
The quoting of update notes was to show that yes, the staff has gained rather than lost in the update – because a lot of its skills now chain better, are easier to manage (moving while healing rain), or have additional, more powerful effects than before (gust’s multi-target).
The demanding statistics about statements is to show how baseless the claims being made are – if you can’t back up a claim that you’re making (such as that nobody (or barely anybody) plays ele), then that claim is not a valid one to make in an argument. If you said, for example, that staff eles are bad at causing blind – that would be valid. They have one skill, and it has such a long casting time that it’s near-worthless as a way to deliberately protect against a specific attack from an opponent.
(yes, eles have access to other blinds, but there’s only one on the staff weapon, and that was an easy-to-explain example that I could come up with quickly)
Everyone just ignore the troll. He stopped providing any valid arguments, and is just arguing for the sake of it.
I provided valid arguments. I provided undeniable facts. You just chose to ignore them. And that’s why I won this debate. And because I won, you call me a troll? How mature of you.
Yes, past tense, did. Now you’re arguing over empirical vs anecdotal evidence. Your response to all of my points was questioning the wording of a title. Your “undeniable” facts had counterarguments and you ignored them.
The empirical vs anecdotal evidence is in response to all the people who… aren’t presenting reasonable cases. It isn’t the basis for darkace’s arguments, but it’s hard to come up with genuine counter-arguments when the statements made have no meaning or value.
And to you cheese. The staff ele has no place in sPvP because a necro or mesmer is more useful and better fills the role. A necro has long range AoE, can apply more pressure with his minions, and adds condi to fights with his wells.
Can the necro heal an ally? Provide lots of movement-control on many locations at once? Remove any of the conditions that the other team’s necro is applying? Sure, they have other kinds of support roles, but they’re just not the same – the necro and ele perform entirely different tasks within the match.
It’s hard to discuss something when the counters all consist of ‘this isn’t true and I’m not going to provide a counter-argument that makes sense, and we should all just ignore anyone who doesn’t agree with us’.
Fixed that for you. And I’m glad to see at least one other person on this sub-forum is reasonable and rational.
<3
I really do appreciate the folks arguing against the staff’s usefulness when they’re presenting reasonable cases by the way – it’s just a shame that there are several people just sticking their fingers in their ears and going ‘la la la’ like my older sister did when we were like 5 and 6 years old and she was losing an argument about a toy or who would be best at climbing trees, a tortoise or antman.
Nore does Izzy provide us with hard facts try to sugarcode us about how flexibel and potential the ele really is. I would’ve loved to see him just join a server and put his money where his mouth is.
Now, this is the part of the line between anecdotal and factual evidence that gets blurry. The facts are that eles have so many more weapon skills available to them, with a variety of uses – this is solid fact. They can use these skills in many combinations, due to having lots of them and the ability to switch between whichever attunements they want to (provided the cooldown isn’t active). This is also fact, though there’s argument about attunement cooldown/arcana trait speccing that I won’t try to go into because this is about staff rather than attunements.
Whether someone makes good use of the skills available is opinion. Whether someone enjoys using the skills/build is opinion. It’s hard to have any weight behind the statement ‘this thing is bad’ without a lot of people playing in a lot of situations with it – and we just don’t have access to that data. However, a few people arguing for and a few arguing against the viability of staff really isn’t sufficient to be able to say ‘yes, this thing actually is bad’ and justify making changes. Once one has access to Anet data and has studied how matchups in large numbers of cases fare… then they can make more reasonable decisions and statements as to what is over and underpowered and what could do with buffing.
Again, pvp is made up of 5v5, and staff never has and probably never will be a viable weapon there.
Would you mind explaining what about the staff is horribly bad in a 5v5? Most of what I can garner from what people are saying really does sound like they want it to just deal lots more damage and pwn in 1v1s.
Sure, ele isn’t as good at bunkering as guardian or as bursty and spiky (and annoying) as the thief, but they can assist in so many different ways – they just need to be aware of their surroundings and their skills more than someone who throws a reliable chain of attacks and doesn’t need to pay attention to do damage.
Everyone just ignore the troll. He stopped providing any valid arguments, and is just arguing for the sake of it.
Who’re you saying is the troll? darkace? They are requesting that people present valid points rather than wishy-washy statements with no basis in fact (and ridiculous, entirely unverifiable ones at that), or the world’s biggest hyperbole (ha ha I’m hilarious). It’s hard to discuss something when the counters all consist of ‘this isn’t true and I’m not going to provide a counter-argument that makes sense’.
If you’d actually bothered to read the patch notes you’d know staff elementalists got a buff.
i play almost exclusively to staff. all those aftercast cooldowns were not buffs. they were improvements to our quality of life, but not buffs. reducing the aftercast down by 0.1-0.6 seconds is not a buff
these are buffs
- gust passing through multiple enemies
- meteor shower cast time decreased
- moving while casting healing raindo bear in mind that gust deals no damage, so if someone has stability up then you effectively do nothing, they don’t even enter combat.
each meteor hits for an area the size of a non-blasting staff lava font or geyser (or lightning flash), while randomly distributed over a radius of 360moving while casting healing rain was the only good thing for a skill that is already good
Aha, thank you for actually acknowledging the real buffs, I keep forgetting to bring them up – the Gust and Healing rain ones really are useful to note (woo, more control and mobility!), and meteor shower being better is nice.
If somene has stability up, you should really be taking note of this and just not casting gust until it’s down – if you’re wasting your control effects on the stable, you shouldn’t complain about them… and you have another hard CC that you can use once their stability runs out or is removed by someone.
The aftercast/casting time improvements… do count as buffs. Notably Eruption, which is great for laying down then plonking a combo field on top of. You now have enough time (due to a load of aftercast getting removed) to pull off several other skills before you need to lay down your combo field for your blast. You can use another skill, get it interrupted, and still sometimes manage to place that important field. Most of the time this field will be a water one, but 3 stacks of might isn’t to be sniffed at, especially when there’re other allies around that would benefit who /do/ focus on straight-up damage.
You’ve proven that staff isn’t a pvp weapon, and therefore all the little tweaks it got this patch don’t do kitten for overall ele balance.
It’s not a 1v1 weapon, is all I’ve been saying. And even then, it can still be good if used well, just often outmatched by other classes/builds – which is true of most things. They all have counters.
Staff rules for supporting and controlling groups, that’s the entire purpose of the weapon. If you’re trying to repurpose it into doing something else, you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole – using a rubber chicken instead of a hammer.
he needs empircal evidence :P
Did you check some servers for Eles yet Darkace?
Um. How exactly is one supposed to do this? There isn’t any way that we can check at all fairly for ele numbers – unless you want to spend the tens of thousands of gems to swap between every server and spend a few weeks mapping each of them and checking with every person whether the character they’re on is their main, whether they play an ele, whether they specifically don’t play ele because they think it’s kittene?
You are making broad, vague claims rather than presenting real arguments. Try stating actual facts or maybe even hypothetical situations in which an ele is completely useless, and I’ll listen to what you have to say about it. Shouting “this is bad this is bad I want more damage!” and “hey stop nerfing my skills!” really isn’t at all constructive.
darkace is a strong vocal minority and should be ignored.
I’m assuming you have some sort of statistical data showing the majority of elemetnalists feel ArenaNet hates the profession? Because without that data your claim is a baseless one. And baseless claims should be ignored.
It’s a title of a thread meant to grab people’s attention. Obviously it worked. If your argument has degraded to questioning the wording of a title, clearly you’ve lost this debate.
Also, if that’s what you got from my comment, thank you for ignoring the meat and picking at the bones.
I’m pretty sure that the thing that darkace was saying about baseless claims was with regards to their being the “vocal minority”, and the title of the thread has nothing to do with it. You’re making a claim that by saying this about darkace, that of all the elementalists out there, the majority of them don’t agree with darkace – but you really don’t have sufficient data on this to back your claim up. <10 people making at all meaningful comments in a thread really isn’t a sufficiently large sample size to say that the opinions presented and the proportions of folks holding those opinions are at all representative of the community as a whole.
Prove your point that staff isn’t useful in 1v1? Well YES. It’s just not a 1v1 weapon!
If every weapon was good in 1v1… what would be the point in having any AoE at all?
Would you please make it clear which ‘point’ it is that I’ve ‘proved’ of yours? You’re being far too vague, especially with a one-line contentless reply to a post that I mentioned several things in.
Giving the staff a buff doesnt make much of a difference if any other classes get buffed in a similar way.
Um, yes it does?
No it doesn’t. Staff still isn’t close to a viable pvp weapon. It never will be unless it gets either a HUGE damage boost or completely redesigned. And that’s exactly why staff changes in the patch notes don’t even matter.
The staff has large range, can have pretty great AoE and lays down movement-impeding conditions and CCs all over the place – and in my re-reading of the patch notes the now, I note that Gust is actually multi-target now, which is a pretty serious buff to it. If you want to deal lots of damage, go with your one-handed weapons – the staff is a large-scale weapon, not a spiking tool.
Staff eles are not nearly powerful enough to do many 1v1s… but a decent staff should be able to at least hold out against most foes until support arrives from either team, and maybe use their CC and mobility to neutralise (or even cap) the point they’re fighting at while they’re at it.
And if you’re at all organised, or even just have a half-reasonable randomly assigned team, you can be wonderful with an ally – the staff ele has the control and support to keep another ally or two up in a larger fight, and deal consistent (if minor compared to, say, spike/burst builds) damage while they’re at it.
If you’re desperate to deal lots of damage to one target… you shouldn’t go for an AoE weapon. There just isn’t any way to give them the damage output that you want without either shrinking down the AoE (to, uh, single-target) or making it stupidly overpowered.
Giving the staff a buff doesnt make much of a difference if any other classes get buffed in a similar way.
Um, yes it does? The way that an ele wielding a staff will play is entirely different from the way a mesmer with a scepter/focus will play. Buffing that mesmer’s skills as well as the ele’s doesn’t mean that either of those buffs is somehow meaningless – if at all balanced it makes both more interesting/fun to play – and hopefully more viable against other builds that are currently considered to be OP to them. If every class had the same skills and weapon sets, then yes buffing them all at once wouldn’t really count as balancing – but that just isn’t the case; they are all different so tweaking the skills of one weapon can’t really be compared to those of another.
Aether, two points:
1) staff eles really did get buffed. A large number of staff skills were given shorter cast/aftercast times, and Healing Rain no longer requires standing still. The nerfs given were the two cantrips that no longer stun (which aren’t “staff”, and whose stuns were spread to other skill types – maybe now you won’t see everyone wearing three cantrips) and the Bountiful Power nerf – which in organised groups could give you like 16% extra damage most of the time, in a healing/vit specced build, without losing any of that healing or vit.
2) Yeah anecdotal evidence is nothing to do with what the update did. Read the update notes, note the skills that have been changed. No staff skills at all were nerfed, you can read this for yourself, so it’s not anecdotal at all. Should I say “I once saw a staff ele running about and think that their skills had maybe been nerfed” or even “yeah my staff ele doesn’t play as well now” without any supporting evidence… that’d be anecdotal.
EDIT: didn’t at all say what I meant to, in part of this. Wooo clarification.
(edited by cheese.4739)
Sure you can F1 2 3 5 F2 2 4 F3 2 F4 2 to deal more damage than an autoattack fire ball except for the fact that, it takes ~5 seconds to cast that sequence and you’ll be stuck in earth autoattacking for 4 more seconds until you can switch back to fire.
Y’wot? You have /so many/ combo fields on your staff, and you’re making… no use of them. Within a few seconds of starting a fight I can get up 7 stacks of might on a bunch of allies, with earth2, fire2, arcane wave in the field giving 3 stacks each from two blast/fire combos, and an extra single might from swapping to fire with the arcana… V? trait. Whichever one shares a boon on attuning. Anyway yeah, srsly, if that’s how you think of ‘maybe dealing more dps’ as a staff ele, you’re not utilising the massive combo potential at all and you’d probably be noted by a group as a bad staff ele. You shouldn’t concentrate on dealing damage; your damage contribution should come from your combos and the aid you can provide to party members to increase /their/ damage – through sharing might or keeping foes where they want them or just keeping allies alive.
You can share might, as I just said. You can do pretty brilliant aoe crowd control, both soft and (with air5) hard. You can apply huge healing bursts using the above combo but with water3 or 5 as the combo field rather than a fire one.
The ele mentioned in the OP, who just spammed fire1, was (hopefully) just using whichever fire trait gives might on fire attacks… which gives some dps, sure, but completely ignores the team’s needs and has very little use compared to the real beauty of the staff, which is its ability to throw a great variety of useful things all over the battlefield.
EDIT: formatting and clarifying what I’d said. I should preview posts.
(edited by cheese.4739)
I was in some PvP matches earlier, and noticed it on the Spirit Watch map because it really messed up my orb running but it showed up in the lobby too – the Earth Magic trait XI (grant stability for 2s to allies when attuning to earth) doesn’t seem to be granting the stability to me or anyone else.
