Guild Wars 2

mini.6018:

Where is everyone getting the ideea the heal will come only every 10 seconds ? Just asking .No way all the gw2 community can be that NOOB seriously to believe that.

Anyone here actually know how spirits work or they just like to randomly spam stuff to fill a post ?

10 sec interval is spirit rebuff duration if in range
Buff has 35% chance to heal you every hit you do as long as you have the buff on you(wich is reaplied every 10 seconds)
Traited the spirit will have 70% chance to heal on every hit.Yes all spirit rangers have spirits traited for 70%.

I’d test stuff yourself before assuming that the whole rest of the world is wrong. Seriously, just go make a Ranger real quick, cast some spirits, attack a golem, and watch what happens to your buff bar. Oops.

You lose the buff on proc, Mini. Otherwise you would see people running around with 20s+ burning on them all the time, 2 years of swiftness, and perma prot AoE in team fights. lolz

Heal as One would be fine if it also healed a condi or two on you and your pet, that would make it comparable to Mending.

I’m alright with it, so long as you can get these unlocks by doing only PvP, and that they aren’t insanely hard to get that way. If we’re talking several weeks of play just to get a single skill unlock on one character, then that’s way too much.

aussieheals.6843:

1) Leave rank
2) Change glory boosters to rank boosters.
3) Remove all pvp rewards from rank progression add them in your new system as intended except for finishers.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.

Smiley.5376:

I think the best way to implement gold rewards in spvp would be based on the point difference.

The bigger the difference, the more points for the winners and less for the losers.

Example for TeamQ:

A bigger difference in points will then also become a bigger difference in gold reward.(2g & 1g) + 50s for the winners
When the difference in points is smaller, the gold rewards will be closer together.(1.70g & 1.30g) + 50s for the winners

This is a reasonable idea, although I think you still want -some- reward for losing in blowout fashion, even if it’s really low. For instance, let’s say you play Team Arena late and night and get mismatched against an all-star team. Not only is it not fun to get mismatched like that, but now you also get no rewards because they face-rolled you 500-0… not very encouraging. I also think it needs to be tied somewhat to your personal effort, because let’s say you AFK in Solo Queue and your team 4v5s and wins. You shouldn’t be rewarded for their efforts — there should be something there that notices you get 0 points and penalizes you for that.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this has potential.
let’s work more on this!

1. X seconds to leave spawn base or disqualified from end of match rewards.
2. losing team members must meet score threshold or receive lesser rewards

well, the “getting points for being killed” must be coded carefully or else some people may just form a team of “lets get killed for gold” and queue for the team arena.

i think a very disadvantaged team would also be able to score a few points, so i think the “getting points for being killed” would not work well.

the important question is, what personal score threshold should be fair and not easy to abuse?

and, what about those who leave the spawn base and hide somewhere in a corner?

we call them manual A F K players who wants the end match reward but do not wish to put in additional effort.

should the personal score threshold be a variable? not a fixed amount.

Thanks! Yeah, see, to a certain extent, if people want to throw games, you’re not going to really be able to prevent that (who’s to say you’re throwing the game, maybe you’re just really bad compared to the opponent). We just want to prevent people that are actually AFK from getting rewards for losing. Leaving base and going to hide in a corner somewhere to AFK could happen, but then maybe you get killed and then respawn in base, and then get kicked for AFKing there. That’s the idea, anyways.

Divinity.8041:

You are being subjective. Some SOLOq teams are extremely good and would wipe the floor against other “supposed high rated” tpvp teams, you can’t assume causation = correlation.

The only thing tpvp has over soloq is most likely some sort of teamspeak program allowing more coordinated plays, that is all. Tpvp def has an edge based on that, but a high rated solo q vs a high rated tpvp would not be a 500-0 win or loss, it would actually still be a close game.

No, not really. Only pugs full of experienced team q players will give good matches to the better teams. Granted, a lot of those guys also do pretty well in solo q, so there’s some crossover. But generally, voice comm adds a whole new dimension to coordination, such that you’re severely handicapping yourself by not taking advantage of it against a team that is, just watch any twitch stream of a good team playing and you can easily see what I mean.

Here are some ways you can try to deal with the afk problem:

• During a match, whenever you spawn in your base, you have X seconds to leave the base or you are disqualified from rewards. This would have to be done in such a way as to forgive disconnects, though. As part of this, make respawning automatic in an sPvP match (don’t make the user click the button).
• If your team lost, you have to meet a certain threshold of a personal score, otherwise you receive disminished rewards based on how much you missed the mark by. In order for this to work properly, you should also give 5 points for being killed, so that a very disadvantaged team still has a way to meet the threshold. As an easy example, let’s say the threshold is 50 points. If your team loses, as long as you score at least 50 personal points by the end of the match, you will get full rewards for losing. These 50 points could be gained by dying 10 times.

150k rank points per rank

Let’s just say that if I don’t get my r70 Phoenix (and I probably won’t), sad panda!

Yeah, and also keep /rank and rank progression, but rewards would no longer be attached to rank. Mostly for us long time pvpers that have gotten attached to their progress and would be sad to see it disappear completely. :/

ronpierce.2760:

Inc ranger Healing spirit.

dear god…

They could keep the changes to the reward system, but just not remove ranks and their finishers. Just have it as this little side progression thing, but not have it display anywhere except on your PvP menu and maybe keep the progress bar on the bottom. This way, you still get the cool new rewards, and yes glory is now gone, but rank points and the rank finishers will remain.

I agree, I don’t understand the desire to completely remove rank and their finishers. It’s fine to put it on the back burner, but I don’t think it’s fair or even needed to get rid of the system. Just make it so only the player sees their own rank, and start using ladder rank as the new “status symbol”. You can still use rank for achievements and finishers, so that there’s still this progression thing going on in the background for the pvp veterans.

bow to your AI overlords, Acandis! now they might even start healing us

Nah, I think a big floating chalice would be cool, in a more casual kinda way. Not really trying to make spirit weapons pvp-viable, last thing we need right now is that.

The very simplest thing you could do is have some sort of chime play when your match is ready (and have that sound always play, even if Guild Wars 2 isn’t the active window). The chime alone would reduce 4v5s by a good amount. Even better than that would be to have an “Are you ready?” pop up to verify that you aren’t afk when the queue pops. If you click no or don’t answer, you get removed from the queue and the others go back into queue and wait for a replacement. This is super necessary for solo q.

What do you guys think the new heals will do? I can’t wait to see what new/old builds become viable/buffed due to them. Let me take a shot at the Guardian one:

Chalice of Light
Spirit Weapon
Summon an arcane chalice to heal you and your allies.
Activation: 1s
Cooldown: 20s
Duration: 10s
Pulses 3s of Regen to allies within 240 radius of the chalice every 3s.

Command
Command the Chalice of Light to heal you and blind nearby foes. This destroys the chalice.
Healing: 5,400(0.5)
Activation: Instant
Cooldown: 30s
Blind: 5s
Radius: 240

Glad that you guys are taking this initiative on having a stream every 2 weeks for PvP! Questions I would like to have asked:

• How many skill points will the new heals cost total (including skill tiers)? I’m really hoping that we won’t have to buy hundreds of tomes on each character just to unlock the new heals.
• How much glory will each tome cost?
• Any insight as to what effect the existing PvP skins will have after this gear revamp? Will they only be able to be used for aesthetics, or will you be able to trade them in for something?
• Any info on how Legendaries will be handled? I think it would be cool for PvP and PvE to have their own Legendaries (with the PvP ones having less trailing and glowing effects). Since we are going to blur the gear lines together, it would be nice to keep Legendaries separate to show the player’s hardcore dedication to that particular area of the game, and give players something to strive for if they’ve mastered one area of the game but not the other.
• For the ladders, what will be done to discourage people at the top of the ladder from sitting on their ladder position till they are dethroned or the season ends? It’s been alluded to that decay will be better handled in the future, any details on that which can be spoken about now?

JonPeters.5630:

Reasonable explanation, thanks for the insight. Personally, I’d be on the side of giving the option of showing them (which gets around the UI clutter argument, if you put the power of customization in the users’ hands), so long as there weren’t any technical problems with it. Which I imagine there wouldn’t be, since it’s only a single extra 8-bit integer per nearby client. You could also disable these bars in WvW, where I imagine it might be a good amount of extra clutter. I’m also not a fan of slippery slope arguments, since as designers, you get the choice of where to draw the line. It’s not as if we’re talking about something outside of the designers’ direct control, which is usually the criteria necessary for slippery slope arguments to even apply.

1. I don’t think discussion threads about how to hold future discussion threads is a constructive use of our (or your) time. Refining the process is a matter of trial and error on your side. Keep in mind, these threads are mainly for YOUR benefit, since only you have the ability to turn the feedback into something useful for the game. So, figure out the best format for the discussion, and then post those guidelines. Let’s not see a thread like this one again; we all have better things to be doing.
2. As much as you ask people to be concise, empassioned writers are going to be a bit long-winded at times. As the readers and interpreters of the feedback, use your discretion as to when you should read in depth, and when to skim. Sometimes, wordy replies are warranted. Don’t stifle great but lengthy feedback just because you don’t want to invest the time to read it, just skim.
3. I’d say, don’t bother summarizing except maybe once the thread is over and locked. Rather, constantly read and reply to the discussion when necessary, and give useful and relevant information in your replies. Use Jon Peters’ replies in the Dec 10th patch discussion thread as a good example of how to do this. People interested in the discussion will read it through themselves, and if there is a constant back-and-forth with the devs throughout, a need for a summary shouldn’t be needed since the players will want to read most or all of the posts anyway.

Yeah, we mostly have ourselves to blame for being competitive in a PvP game and taking every advantage available, including using the most powerful builds in the game, in order to win.

Wait, what?

geez with all the seriousness in this thread all of a sudden

Acandis.3250:

Whilst thieves do have a high uptime of evade frames, it’s not hard to hit them during non evade frames. Also, if it’s really not that hard if you are familiar with the build and you can become familiar with the weaknesses. It’s not hard to bait out dodges so you can get your burst in when you need to.

Showing enemy energy bar would dumb this game down A LOT.

@Kensuda, your team (specially you as a guardian) should be paying attention to which enemies have used what dodges, also you should know that what builds will have perma vigor and which won’t.

I don’t think this game needs to be dumbed down any more than it already is, it’s not hard to be good at it. What you’re asking for is straight up QQ nerf paying attention and coordination.

I’d also like the mention that the problem is more about what evades are available to each class. If anything, number of available evade-frames for rangers and thieves need to be slightly nerfed. However, you begging for an endurance bar because you don’t wanna count number of dodges… seriously? Do you want to see all their CDs floating above their HP bar, too?

No need to get personal, you just disagree, so that’s fine. I personally like it when more information is readily accessible to both sides in games — I’m more of a Chess person rather than a Poker person (outplaying with both sides having information, as opposed to outplaying one another based on partly or completely hidden information). Endurance in this game is something that matters a ton in combat, but is hard to anticipate on a lot of builds due to varying levels of endurance regen. There’s so much to communicate about on a team in this game, putting more information into the game’s UI and out of your mouth allows you to spend more of your talking time about other things rather than these invisible bars that everyone is mentally keeping track of. But like I said, it’s a difference of opinion, and we can leave it at that, I’m not sure what made you assume I want the feature because I’m bad at keeping track of dodges or making calls for my team.

Yeah, and also teamfights. Being able to know who is low on endurance can influence focus fire decisions. More information is usually better when it comes to skillful back-and-forth play, as long as it doesn’t get to the point of information overload. Being able to see a numerical %hp on target would be nice too.

But yeah, I agree, other things are way more important than this.

Imma let you finish, but Enemy was the best DPS Guard of all time. OF ALL TIME

Yes, definitely. Can we also get a visual cue for Stability? Crazy to me that we have one for Protection but not Stability.

You don’t play Skyhammer, Skyhammer plays you.

/bows to Sataarbestbearconeydoyour

Congratulations, you are the greatest DPS Guard glory farmer to have ever lived. Who is Acandis btw?

Wow, get a life Bear! :P jk grats

A++++++ would read again.

Also, you’re #2??? Is this real life? I don’t even

It’s actually a bit rediculous considering how good the pvp gameplay is in this game compared to any other MMO. I guess the balance and conquest game mode really drove everyone off (although I personally do like conquest). Lack of progression and rewards probably had something to do with it as well.

Oh my…

Wait, I think I know you… are you Hman’s son?

Of the various power builds, virtues bunker guard (the kind I play) dies to bomb nade Engi, HGH Engi, and shatter Mesmer the quickest, Mesmer might take a long time if I play perfectly. But anyway, this Ele build won’t be a good mid bunker, so it’s not as if I’m worried about guardian viability here. I just don’t think these immunity traits are healthy for the game, which I explained in detail in the other thread. Why do people think there are always personal agendas, as if everyone else are evil sinister people with ulterior motives. I never assume that about others, so I really don’t get it.

Also, I shouldn’t even need to bring it up, but both Wakkey and Genyen on my team are both previously solid Ele players that could pick up a new viable Ele build if it should arise, so you could even say I have negative reason to want to “keep Eles down” if we’re talking about motives. I just dislike the trait design. That’s it. Bad trait, please redesign into something different but equally powerful and I’m happy.

Cool, looks like a great holiday season for gw2 pvp! You and Grouch are doing solid work, it’s easy to tell that you guys care as much about the game as we do. Lots of stuff in the works, can’t wait to hear more about what’s coming.

Oblivion.8307:

How about Diamond Skin would activate for 2 seconds whenever you switched to Earth, and gave 75-90% condition reduction? It provides active play and doesn’t act as a hard counter to condition builds.

This. A perfect way to give a similar kind of effect, but require timing and foresight to use with maximum efficiency. It’s funny, but I think this was the best comment to come out of this huge thread, and it’s only 2 sentences long.

Nah, it’s that it’s bad game design.

Eurantien.4632:

But then do you really want a stealthed jaguar stacking bleeds on you that deal the same amount of damage as the ranger’s bleeds? Not to mention with sun spirit the pet is also stacking burning, so then it actually is a 1 v 2 against a ranger. At least with the current system its like 1 v 1.5.

No, he’s not saying pet stats should match the Ranger’s. He’s saying that the pet stats should scale with the Ranger’s. In other words, instead of pets having fixed stats based on the Ranger’s level, the pets would have a coefficient for each stat to multiply against the Ranger’s stat. For example, in the case of your Jaguar, maybe the Condition Damage coefficient for it is 0.5. So, if the Ranger has 1400 Condition Damage, the Jaguar would have 700. All stats for all pets would work this way: Birds would scale really well with Precision and Power (great companions for power Rangers) whereas bears would scale really well with Vitality and Toughness (work best with Soldier amulet setups). Having it this way would make it impossible to have these tanky condition builds that also have burst potential through their pet, because you wouldn’t have the Power or Precision stat base to scale any of the pets well enough. Instead, you would take cats or spiders to supplement your condition output.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

When you say, “Not good for the game.” Do you actually mean, “Not good for conditions spammers who use 1200 range and AoE?”

Oh come on now, I go on to explain for two full paragraphs after that exactly what I mean when I say “not good for the game”. Let’s not take the opportunity to be snarky and cynical just for the heck of it, my friend.

Serdoc.7261:

I think 2 stat combos on amulets that would help build diversity in PvP would be:
Magi: Healing Power Main – Precision minor – Vitality minor
Knight: Precision Main – Power minor – Toughness minor

Agree. I also agree with others that Dire would be too strong on certain classes, like Necro.

I also would like to see a little bit more refinement capability on stats, only having amulet and jewel (with jewel stats being so small in comparison to amulet so as to be almost insignificant) doesn’t allow for enough build diversity. Here’s how I would like to see it done:

Current System:
Berserker Amulet: 798 Power, 589 Precision, 284 Vitality, 15% Crit Dmg
Berserker Jewel: 125 Power, 75 Precision, 45 Vitality, 5% Crit Dmg
Total: 923 Power, 664 Precision, 329 Vitality, 20% Crit Dmg

New System:
Berserker Amulet: 598 Power, 469 Precision, 212 Vitality, 10% Crit Dmg
Berserker Jewel: 175 Power, 105 Precision, 63 Vitality, 6% Crit Dmg
Berserker Ring 1: 75 Power, 45 Precision, 27 Vitality, 2% Crit Dmg
Berserker Ring 2: 75 Power, 45 Precision, 27 Vitality, 2% Crit Dmg
Total: 923 Power, 664 Precision, 329 Vitality, 20% Crit Dmg

For runes, it would be cool if all the current sets that exist in PvE land could make it to PvP in some shape or form (perplexity definitely needing to be fixed first, of course… that 6-set bonus should be more like 3 stacks of confusion for 5s on interrupt with 10s icd). I would especially love some version of Traveller, that would be great for DPS Guard.

Nova Stiker.8396:

How is this trait is remotely considered OP is beyond me.

Basically, this trait is asking the Elementalist not to take 1,300-2,000 damage in a fight to be effective.
ArenaNet is so out of touch with it’s community…

Last time I checked, Necromancers are going the zerker route anyways because scepter has no projectiles, fast and spams 3 conditions in a single combo, surviving thanks to fear and weakness.

HEY ENGINEERS! Want this kitten trait, all Elementalists will happy to take the trait Automated Response, something useful.

Around 3k armor. Some amount of Protection uptime. Rock Solid and Ether Renewal. Is it still beyond you?

Zenith.7301:

cymerdown.4103:

This game isn’t about killing, it’s about point capture. It doesn’t need to kill to be OP.

If you can’t threaten someone off a point, you’re not going to be successful. You don’t have the CC of the engineer/warrior, or the sheer evasiveness/upkeep of a ranger.

If you own the point, you can stall out 1v1s by being really tough to kill. And if you don’t own it, maybe you’re a tornado.

Sensotix.4106:

cymerdown.4103:

This game isn’t about killing, it’s about point capture. It doesn’t need to kill to be OP.

but you know that you sometimes have duels where you should win because you play better and get the point afterwards? because of skill not because of a trait

Sorry, I was replying to Zenith. I agree with what you said.

I think Warrior will still be meta, and I don’t think it will be of the condi variety, but we will see a month or 2 after the meta has had a chance to fully settle.

This game isn’t about killing, it’s about point capture. It doesn’t need to kill to be OP.

Yeah, and I think it’s pretty obvious how to build #2. “Guys, I have another condi-immune tornado at home point.”

Zenith.7301:

Um……

15000-16000 average health with water traitline.

10% is 1500-1600 damage. Your minions will do that much in less than 2 secs.

It’s a useless trait. No ele will take it. An ele still needs 20 in water and 20 in arcana at the very least, not leaving enough for diamond skin.

First of all, “Your minions”??? What game are you playing where MM Necro is viable?

But anyway, that’s exactly the problem with the trait. Either it won’t be good enough and nobody will take it, or it will be pretty OP and everyone will take it. With complete immunity traits like that, there is not much middle ground (outside of meta shifts, but meta shifts due to a single OP trait are not very natural types of shifts).

Lastly, with the words you just said, I don’t think you’ve really thought carefully about how to min-max the trait. I won’t post the exact builds here, but use that noggin.

Like I said, it’s fine if the build you play is advantaged against most power builds, or most condi builds. But there’s soft counters, and hard counters. With hard counters, you are more than just a bit disadvantaged to beat the build that is the counter to yours. When more of the outcome of a fight is based on the builds the two players are running than the comparative skill levels of the two players, that leads to an noncompetitive and unfun PvP experience, both to play and to watch. If we don’t want Guild Wars 2 to be a competitive PvP game, then by all means, add more hard counters. The competitive players will (and to an extent already have) go elsewhere.

<RANT>
I’ll speak up here and say that I personally also think these 100% immunity traits and utilities are not good for the game. They should all be changed, perhaps to -x% condition duration. Being built to do well against condi damage or power damage to a certain extent is fine, but when you have this binary switch where you are all of a sudden immune to a certain type of damage for an extended period of time (I’ll include Berserker’s Stance here because 8-10s is a rather long time in PvP when it comes to complete immunity) it’s just a “feel-bad” gameplay experience. Nobody feels like they were outplayed when a condi-immune warrior stunlocks you in a teamfight, you just feel like the game is not well-balanced. At the very least, complete immunity traits like Automated Response and this new Diamond Skin need to have a buff bar symbol, a finite duration, and then a longish cooldown. Can a skilled player find ways to play against these traits? Sure, they can, with good team coordination (something not very possible in Solo Q), and with prior knowledge of how to anticipate and prepare for these traits. Against lesser skilled opponents, these immunity skills/traits are just faceroll paths to victory with little skill needed from the side employing them.

To say it a different way, these types of traits and skills are very easy to use, and very difficult for certain builds to play against. In the example of Automated Response, the use of the trait takes nothing from the user, it’s just automatic when they reach the 25% HP threshold. From the point of view of let’s say a condi Necro trying to fight the AR Engi, they have to specifically anticipate that the Engi has the AR trait, attempt to load the Engi with enough condis to kill them before the 25% HP threshold, and then hope that the Engi doesn’t have something like Elixir C or Elixir X with Lyssa runes or another condi purge from Healing Turret available to save themselves before they die. The burden of excellent counterplay is placed completely on the Necro, and the Engi has to do absolutely nothing except select the AR trait in order to place this huge burden. Having this sort of uneven play vs counterplay makes for bad game design and unhappy player experiences — people want to feel that they were beaten by the other player and not beaten by the unfair game rules.
</RANT>

Valentin.2073:

guardians and spirit rangers are pretty much the same, IMO.

That is now quoted for all eternity, no backsies.