Guild Wars 2

Although DR doesn’t affect me at all, I believe they could have came with better ideas…

Now, about you people saying DR hinders your farming experience, just remember the fact that, here, there is no ‘tagging’ of resources, be it from mobs or from nodes. Logic dictates that players can and will gather way more resources from a hour of farming here than on any other mmo where you have to compete for them.

Bear in mind this fact when making your calculations…

On the WvW enviroment I really don’t see it happening. People already complain about the mobs there, imagine if A.Net decides to introduce huge PvE events over there?

Now for the PvE side of the game, as long as there is no gear treadmill involved other than cosmetics, A.Net can implement as many raids as people want them to. Extra content is never too much.

Although I agree with the person who said I don’t believe people will feel inclined to raid just for cosmetics.

Knuckledust.5621:

Fanboyism level is TOO kitten HIGH!

Basically the OP keeps doing low level characters so he avoids getting stuck on the void that endgame is. Well done!

It does not explain why there are also 80’s agreeing with him as well. Half of my entire guild is 80 and they are pretty much still playing every day…

Your point, again?

Scera.9746:

Rise.9702:

Omega Mayhem.7163:

That’s what I hated about questing in WoW…. being led around by the nose. Go here, do these quests, then go there, do those quests…

And that’s what I love about GW2… I can just wander around and it feels like stuff comes and finds me instead of the other way around.

To each his own.

I agree with Omega 100%. I never played WoW but I get sick and tired of the
“Go to x, kill y, and go back to x, then return and kill more y for z drops.” types of games. I’m really glad GW2 took this out and this is a new game trying out new and different ways than the old typical MMORPG type of ways.

Well, is there really that big of a difference between “kill 20 Orc Marauders”/“bring me 15 Scarlett Badges” and “kill enemies and destroy their supplies until this yellow bar fills up” ? The only real difference is that you don’t have to go talk to the quest guy before and after, which is bad in my opinion, because then you’re only experiencing the middle of a story, and not the beginning or ending.

For a start, here you don’t have only one thing to do… Every single heart out there gives you choices to how are you going to fill that yellow bar. So, because of just this simple fact, quests here are not like any other game you have played before.

Now, about hearts… You know they were not part of the initial development and were just introduced to make the transition from the traditional mmo quests you know so well to the ones we have in GW2, somewhat smoother, right? Originally we would have DEs only.

Now about DEs, I do agree with the OP about the fact that I also believed they would be somehow bigger and less strictly scripted. I still find them fun, but I agree that some improvements could be seen on that department. The same could be said about meta events.

Skolvikings.5132:

Airala.8629:

And just to mention – as an elementalist, I can maintain a near-constant 33% speed boost simply by spec’ing appropriately in my traits (20 into air w/Quick Glyphs & Inscription) and using my glyph for health. I have a constant regenerating (and stacking) 33% swiftness boon.

I don’t really care about mounts. I just want the option to spec my Ranger to have a near-constant 33% speed boost too. Give me that and I’ll be happy.

I was under the impression you could do the same as a Ranger.

Warhorn offhand (Call of the Wild) = 15s switfness / 35s cooldown
Bird pet skill (Quickness Screech) = 10s swiftness / 20s cooldown

Exactly my feelings… That’s exactly how I like to experience the game. I love talking to npcs, see what they do, follow them, hear their conversation, explore every corner of the map, watch the surroundings, etc.

I have 6 chars, my highest being 52. The game is so much immersive and fun that sometimes I level up and end up only noticing it minutes later.

@Plague:

He invested 170 hours playing the game… His investiment is exactly the same, in quality of meaning, as anyone’s else. I couldn’t even understand the logic behind your comment. Care to elaborate?

I do think the prices are really over the top. There is no reason to make them so expensive for low level stuff. Those are the items people may get while leveling and will quickly loose any benefit for them, other than serving as a different skin.

I’ve done multiple times every low level content up to 40 and my 52 ele has 11k karma. Not sure how can someone have 20k at 40

I just spent some time reading through Nemmar’s posts and all I have to say is: wow, how can you possibly keep yourself still coming here to post about a game you so much dislike is beyond reasoning. It must be a pain to you.

After like 20 or so posts without anything good at all to say about the game I just stopped reading.

Nothing else to do with your time or just find it fun to bash something you clearly won’t ever like for a hobby? Really, if there was hope I could understand you come here, day after day, posting about everything you hate on this game, hoping for something to change, but you just happen to dislike so many aspects of the game that I wonder why do you bother, at all.

Sometimes I feel inclined to believe some pleople are just being paid to post bad things about the game.

That would be a GREAT idea. Maybe, if they agree and it does not prove an unreasonable technical challenge, we see it happening someday!

But this idea definitely deserves credit!

I wish I could play a little less but I just can’t =)

The game is still fantastic on my book. They just need to focus on bug hunting (and I believe they are, already), a bit of class balance and it can’t be any better.

It’s so horrible that I never managed to join a single map without a huge queue… Probably all that people queueing just hate it but like to punish themselves by playing =)

I think there should be titles specific for WvW that would show on your name for everyone else, including your enemies.

Like instead of “invasor” we could have titles based on a ranking system. That would be really interesting. Also we could also have temporary comanders on the field. The top 2-3 players for the last week would be granted the commander advantages temporarily

@Red Falcon – “Meleeing gets you a lot more DPS but higher risk, Ranged gets you lower DPS and less risk.
Seems fine to me.”

Unless……………….

…you are a warrior with a rifle. Then you do just as much dmg from ranged =)

Nick.3926:

The game was not designed with mounts in mind.

I don’t understand why some people feel they are a necessity.

There are waypoints literally everywhere, if you feel run speed is too slow, use them.

Because people just can’t have enough. Really! It all boils down to people always wanting more than what they got.

If mounts are ever added, then we will have complains about the game not having enough diversity for mounts, or they not moving fast enough, or the the absence of flying ones…

And the follow up comments like:

“… because moving around slowly is just not fun”,
“… because moving around mounted on the same mount as everyone else is not fun”
“… because moving around instead of flying around is not fun”
“… because everything besides having the coolest mount ever imagined is not fun”

And it will go on indefinitely…

Now, I’m not completely against them, altho I do believe they will add unecessary chaos to crowded places where everyone is trying to show their cool looking mounts to the world. Also, if they are ever implemented, then take away swiftness from the game and replace it with something else.

Now, if mounts are implemented as what Azjenco proposed and just be a temporary enviromental weapon with a cool factor, then I believe it would be nice.

I’m sure A.Net will create more content in time. Just forget the gear grind you are used to. It won’t ever have place here, unless you find grinding for vanity as rewarding as grinding for power. In this game, be patient!

You won’t pay monthly fees here, just take a break and come back after a while…

Have fun!

Well the devs said they would NEVER implement flying mounts, altho they never said the same about normal ones.

Personally, I don’t think they should be implemented mostly because the way the game works and certain buffs we have that would become completely useless because of them.

Also I won’t even start to discuss the issues mounts on WvW would create. If you cant figure them out by yourself, you probably don’t care at all about WvW or never set foot in there.

I heard somewhere people saying about that, because of some lore related events, Tyria has no horses. Not sure if it was made to prevent players from asking for mounts or not.

Anyways, IMO, please, no mounts.

Lance Coolee.9480:

You’re using the term “resistance” as a relative term based on the context you apply it to. I did not, I used “resistance” as a mathematical value with intent to show possible pitfalls.

You see no resistance because the gameplay path YOU have chosen allows you to do so.

That is not the case with players that follow a different path, and it is very easy to see why that design fails.

You are right about your first statement, yet wrong about the second. The resistance this game puts between our paths is the same for everyone. There is just one playstyle that seems to negate it: botting;

Resistance is all around and your gameplay is limited in every sense by it, all the time. Its a constant, not a selective mechanic.

The only way your comment about my chosen gameplay being responsible for me not being affected by resistance could hold any truth is if I was a botter, working around the system to get unfair amount of coins noone else could by normal means. And it is not the case.

I’m not rich in game, not even if I get all the money from all my alts and sum them up, so I take I am as much of a “victim” of the system as you are.

Craven.5468:

Lance Coolee.9480:

Craven.5468:

I consider enhanced travel of any form realistic not resistance. Same is true for armor damage repair costs.

These things make me care about dying, care about travel and help to immerse me into the world and have a stake in my progress. Much like in EVE, there are consequences to losing a fight in a ship worth 2 billion. In GW2, at least there is a repair cost involved.

The fact that you view these costs as insurmountable and unacceptable is a matter of opinion and perspective; both you are welcome to have and neither are facts.

Logical arguments.

I don’t believe I’ve stated that the costs are unacceptable, rather I argued that their existence doesn’t fit the intended goal.

It’s one thing to say they exist in game as a way provoke immersion (which I do agree with), than to say that they exist to keep the economy in check (which I don’t agree with).

I’d like to say that if we do keep waypoint and armor costs in the game, it’s not at the expense of the players ability to actually play. I’ve personally felt the pain of that when I’ve had to completely walk away from a dungeon (with a handful of pugs) simply because I couldn’t afford to do it anymore (we’ve wiped like 20 times, but the enthusiasm to complete it remained, so I stayed for as long as I could).

There was a fantastic discussion a while back about some tweaks that could be made to the travel system that would make grouping with lower level friends a lot better, among other things. I cannot find the thread but I think it was moved to suggestions. It has a heck of a great discussion though.

I think if a few tweaks were put in place, fast travel could be regulated and prohibitive enough to avoid zone floods and other issues without making it as illogical as it is now. Many suggested tying the costs to the zone level (not the player level), as well as making your jump to a major city cheaper or free, and more. Still searching for it…

I’ve given the suggestion about tying the costs to the average level of the zone in a couple posts so far. This way the costs would be somewhat related to what you may get as rewards from playing on that zone, but still a money sink for those who are just teleporting around carelessly, just not as big as it is now, if aimed towards low level zones.

Also, the idea of making LA free is also great. Both a great ideas of lessening the burden in an intelligent way without having to resort to removing it entirely.

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

Because what you call “problem” is not a fact based on unbiased research, but just your own opinion about something instead. You are so self-centered on your coments that you fail to understand this simple fact.

Show me one post where I spoke for anyone but myself and didn’t express simple observation.

The beauty behind “simple facts” is that they are indeed, simple and proven. It is proven that when you apply any resistance between Point A and Point B, the result is less than optimal.

Consider the player “Point A” and consider gameplay “Point B”; waypoint and armor costs are the resistance. Pretty simple wouldn’t you agree?

Taking in consideration the part of my post you quoted I’ll make some changes to what you said:

I consider you as “Point A” and your gameplay as “Point B” and waypoint and armor costs being the resistance. Yes, it was pretty simple.

Now consider this:

“Point A” being me and “Point B” being my gameplay. I can tell you, I see no resistance whatsoever on my path between A and B.

So what about you be more open minded and realize that we are arguing about opinions, nothing more. Unless the huge majority of the players decide to agree with you or me, it won’t ever be anything more than just a battle of opinions.

Lance Coolee.9480:

The real issue is there are quite a handful of players arguing against the “problem”, but aren’t offering valid reasons why it’s not a problem. The largest consenting reply I’ve read was “if you don’t like it, don’t do it”.

Because what you call “problem” is not a fact based on unbiased research, but just your own opinion about something instead. You are so self-centered on your coments that you fail to understand this simple fact.

Post something like “I would like to say that these mechanics hinder my gameplay and I’d very much like them to be changed because of reason x, y and z. Bear in mind those are my opinions and I do not speak for anyone else” and I won’t ever comment anything against it because there would just not be a reason to. If they change, good for you, simple as that.

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

You are indeed advocating the removal of these two money sinks.

Correct, I am.

I never said I’m advocating the removal of ALL money sinks.

But again what would change in the end?

The overall gameplay experience. People will play more simply because there are fewer barriers for them to do so (User Experience Design 101).

If that’s the only logic behind it, let’s just remove them all. You may think those two are the worst ones, others may bring different experiences. So, to make everyone happy and not being biased to anyone’s opinion, let’s remove them all.

Heck if thats the only logic behind player experience you learned from that class, lets just make a whole virtual world where anyone has GM powers so they can do whatever they want in there and have the most fun they ever had on any virtual enviroment, no barriers or limitations at all… Oh wait, that’s Second Life… You sure you ’d rather have a MMO instead of that?

Unfortunately (for you, probably) there are a lot more behind money sinks than just what you described. Reducing money sinks randomly could unbalance the economy and players could play less because economy is a mess now. Or maybe, following your examples, removing the money sinks from those two aspects and bring them somewhere else, and now suddently people who enjoyed something that was great for them before, now find it broken because the devs changed that part of the game to accomodate the changes made to the ones you seem to enjoy most, therefore making some players play less because of it.

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

Why did I use this argument on our discussion about waypoint costs? Simply because there is no formula available to tell us what should be the ideal price for them. Noone can safely say that they know, for a fact, what would be “the best” for the game. They only say for their personal interests and opinions.

It would do you some good to take some User Experience and Design courses. That alone would answer this question.

Simply put, the ideal cost is ZERO. Waypoint costs and Armor costs are a penalty, they offer no added value to the experience (the argument really can’t be made that they’re a strategic factor that forces players to think about “not dying”, because dying alone is penalty enough). They’re there solely as a counterbalance to some other mechanic in the system. All I am saying is that there are far more creative ways to impose the same counterbalance without detracting from the overall experience.

Again asking me to educate myself, eh? Should we keep on this like on my last economics class? Hopefully not…

They are just money sinks, and as such, completely necessary. Removing the money sinks from one aspect of the game just to put them somewhere else, won’t help you and your pockets at nothing at all, so why are you asking for their removal again?

Show me where I said I’m advocating the removal of money sinks?

Why couldn’t waypoint travel (and armor repair) scale (with a cap) based on the amount of money the player has available? Why couldn’t waypoint travel (and armor repair) scale based on usage? Why couldn’t we just find alternative money sinks like replacing all dungeon tokens with gold cost?

There are a significant number of alternatives to balance the economy than waypoint and armor costs (which deter players from playing more, instead of promoting players to play more).

You are indeed advocating the removal of these two money sinks. If it’s not the case you are either having dificulties to communicate properly or just plain contradicting yourself.

There is no particular reason why any of your ideas above couldn’t be implemented. They could all be, for all I care. But again what would change in the end? Changing everything to be exactly the same, just with a different face is really that much of a big deal for you?

Because if you are not advocating any reduction on money sinks and yet complain about the restrictively nature of them, I’m failing hard to understand your point.

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

Why did I use this argument on our discussion about waypoint costs? Simply because there is no formula available to tell us what should be the ideal price for them. Noone can safely say that they know, for a fact, what would be “the best” for the game. They only say for their personal interests and opinions.

It would do you some good to take some User Experience and Design courses. That alone would answer this question.

Simply put, the ideal cost is ZERO. Waypoint costs and Armor costs are a penalty, they offer no added value to the experience (the argument really can’t be made that they’re a strategic factor that forces players to think about “not dying”, because dying alone is penalty enough). They’re there solely as a counterbalance to some other mechanic in the system. All I am saying is that there are far more creative ways to impose the same counterbalance without detracting from the overall experience.

Again asking me to educate myself, eh? Should we keep on this like on my last economics class? Hopefully not…

They are just money sinks, and as such, completely necessary. Removing the money sinks from one aspect of the game just to put them somewhere else, won’t help you and your pockets at nothing at all, so why are you asking for their removal again?

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

Question is: do you like their product? If you do, then have faith, keep posting suggestions and reporting bugs, but also have an open mind about the fact that not every single suggestion you make will be a good thing, in the end. We can’t take our personal opinions out of the equation this easly. In any case. hyperboles about your problems with the game won’t help anything at all.

If you read the posts, you’d likely find that I’ve done EXACTLY that, only to be countered with rebuttal that holds no value and doesn’t add to the overall progress of the game.

Regarding waypoint costs. OK, 5s from one side of the map to the other sucks. Want some advice? Stop doing that.

And we would still have people complaining that prices are still high because people are usually lazy and will always port around instead of walking.

So which is it then? Post suggestions and get flamewared against by those blindly supporting the game? Or am I only allowed to post suggestions that everyone agrees on?

If it’s anyone that has to bring a logical argument to the table, I would think it’s you. I have yet to read one that counters anything anyone has said aside from “well it still won’t make ppl happy, so why bother doing it?”

Well because it holds some truth, don’t you think? If people complain for the sake of complaining, why bother doing what they want? They will just complain again as soon as something change.

Why did I use this argument on our discussion about waypoint costs? Simply because there is no formula available to tell us what should be the ideal price for them. Noone can safely say that they know, for a fact, what would be “the best” for the game. They only say for their personal interests and opinions.

So, it boils down to people saying that they are having to pay a lot of their savings just to move around the map and it is a bad thing to the game without any metrics to back up their claims.

Well, using WoW as an example, every single time I locked my account for a couple months over there, when I came back, I saw prices at least twice of what they were when I left. WoW had a enormous inflation in place but there, teleportation (flight paths) fees and repairing fees were cheap.

This game is somewhat different. They have made decisions here, to make it way more difficult for people to amass big amounts of coins and it’s still too soon for us to see if that was, indeed a good move and a better solution to a more stable economy. At least give the game some time se we can know, for sure if it holds any goodness for the game itself.

Now that was taking the cash shop completetly out of the discussion because, personally I hate cash shops that give ingame currency for real money. I’ll just hope only a small part of the comunity will ever use it. It may be a fools hope tho, time will tell.

@Terrant:

I couldn’t have said it any better than you did. Great post. Hope people understand it and feel less inclined to give semantics so much of a proportion.

I never once said PvE is perfect and, because of it, impossible to be improved. There will always be ways to improve something.

But that is not the point of this thread and I don’t want to get another infraction for going off topic =)

About the first line of your post, I’d like to ask you about how many mmos have you played since day 1 before? After answering that, please, let me know how many of them were released as a “complete product”. I know what would be the best scenario, but its just not realistic at all. MMOs are so complex that, it’s almost impossible for them to be completely “done”, ever. Not at release day, not a year later…

Also saying that concepts / ideas were shoehorned in the last second is bit over exaggeration, don’t you think? How many great and well implemented ideas do we have here? How many bug free mechanics we also have? Just saying you are having fun with your friends and sisters tell me enough about it.

I really don’t think using hyperboles do any good to discussions like this. Every single idea used in this game was well thought, which by no means makes them all well implemented. Developers are also human beings and also capable of making mistakes.

Question is: do you like their product? If you do, then have faith, keep posting suggestions and reporting bugs, but also have an open mind about the fact that not every single suggestion you make will be a good thing, in the end. We can’t take our personal opinions out of the equation this easly. In any case. hyperboles about your problems with the game won’t help anything at all.

Drintar.1246:

Not sure why I can’t quote but in response to your
“It shouldn’t be time = gear. It should be ability = gear. Its not handing them out like cookies. If it’s hard enough that is.”

Riigghhhttt so all these threads complaining how the dungeons are too hard will just go away if they made them even harder, right? The point is in a game like this the only way the devs have to make things harder is either make them take longer or give the mobs a bunch of super cheesy mechanics that make players say “this is bs they don’t want us to do this content”

And just watch the D3 forums and you will see what happens whey they go for the “super cheesy mechanics” route.

Lance Coolee.9480:

Porky.5021:

I’d be fine if the prices of the waypoints varied on usage.

Usage increases, the price increases. Usage decreases, the price decreases.

Let the populations willingness to use and pay determine the price.

See, there ya go, that’s creative.

I actually rather like that. It make sense, and it adapts to the player’s style. Almost feels sort of mini-game ish. Player Vs Waypoint Cost.

Well, trying to resume to thinking here…

Yes, it is a new and creative way, but we already know (just read the topics around) that people never like the idea of not being in control. If their costs on something as artificially created as waypoints are directly tied to the community as a whole, they will find reasons to complain.

That being said (and going back on topic) my whole point is that people are arguing over nothing more than semantics.

You can understand what the devs said on the Manifesto as “we will never have grind on GW2 because we don’t ever want our players to do it”, but you could also understand it as “we will never force you to grind just to compete, if you want to grind, it will be your choice alone”.

Like you said, devs will never be able to keep players from grind if they want. Just keep fighting the same mob, on the same spot and voilá, you are grinding.

Grinding will ALWAYS be part of the mmo genre. Keep that in mind when watching the Manifesto again and you won’t feel lied to.

(Although, as I posted before, they could have put some more thought on what they said)

DrixTrix.7168:

with the size of the WvW maps and the mind numbingly boring runs around where theres no action except a chicken and a wolf hitting each other, and a tree i would greatly appreciate mounts in this setting.

however if a player hits you = a dismount.

p.s. and a simple wolf, horse, rock dog, or anything simple would do.

I really can’t understand people who complain about the size of WvW maps and the time taken to walk around over there.

What would you rather have? If there was no time involved on walking around, there would be no objectives taking at all… As soon as someone started to beat some keep’s door, the zerg would be there in no time to defend…

Really?

Lance Coolee.9480:

Porky.5021:

I’d be fine if the prices of the waypoints varied on usage.

Usage increases, the price increases. Usage decreases, the price decreases.

Let the populations willingness to use and pay determine the price.

See, there ya go, that’s creative.

I actually rather like that. It make sense, and it adapts to the player’s style. Almost feels sort of mini-game ish. Player Vs Waypoint Cost.

And we would still have people complaining that prices are still high because people are usually lazy and will always port around instead of walking.

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

Well, I’ll try to show you the “you guys” later when I feel inclined to search through all the complain posts you and others like so much to participate.

Anyways, there is no logic at all on what you said. There is no comparison. In RL prices are calculated based on many facts like prime materials costs, profit margins, hour/work costs and many other details that will never take place on a virtual world game economy… Here prices just exist for no reason at all.

Could you bring me the formula behind waypoint costs, please… The cost of the technology envolved, the energy used to make the time/space portals work etc? I know I will enjoy every second of my time needed to read it if you manage to.

Sorry to say, but you’re far from complete there. Go take an economics class.

The prime driver in pricing in RL is market value, not raw material / production costs.

Regarding waypoint costs you are also incorrect, they have a very specific “reason”, but the challenge is that there are more creative ways to accomplish that same goal without it having a restricting affect on gameplay.

Sorry but you are wrong…

Production costs are always passed to the consumer or anyone else for the matter. In RL besides the consumers, we would have shareholders and labor costs… One of which would pay for the production costs.

Supply/demand balance and market price would never change this fact.. Someone will always pay for production costs.

Now find an analogy for that on Guild Wars and I’ll give you the point in this discussion.

Also I would like to ask you about what would be a good, innovative way to bring the same gold sink we have now with waypoints and repair costs.

Well, I’ll try to show you the “you guys” later when I feel inclined to search through all the complain posts you and others like so much to participate.

Anyways, there is no logic at all on what you said. There is no comparison. In RL prices are calculated based on many facts like prime materials costs, profit margins, hour/work costs and many other details that will never take place on a virtual world game economy… Here prices just exist for no reason at all.

Could you bring me the formula behind waypoint costs, please… The cost of the technology envolved, the energy used to make the time/space portals work etc? I know I will enjoy every second of my time needed to read it if you manage to.

Lance Coolee.9480:

deriver.5381:

Altho the I never minded walking a bit just to reduce my waypoint fees… Guess that’s exactly what people should do and it really doesn’t hurt.

Are you going to start walking the moment gas prices get too high to drive? Likely not – people will beat down the walls until those prices become reasonable. I see no difference on this topic.

Real life analogies, really? You guys hate so much when others do exactly that to defend the game and now you are doing the same?

Lance Coolee.9480:

Terrant.2903:

Regarding waypoint costs. OK, 5s from one side of the map to the other sucks. Want some advice? Stop doing that.

Go to the Mists, Go to Lion’s Arch. From there, I don’t think anything costs more than maybe 2s. I make more than that as a reward from a DE, not counting once again vendorable/tradeable loot.

A workaround, not a solution.

If players can just as easily use the Mists as a proxy for navigating the map, then why NOT lower the cost of waypoints?

There are plenty of threads asking for LA to be a free waypoint for this argument alone, but that isn’t even gaining any traction or attention.

They could do exactly that, in my opinion. Make Lion’s Arch a free waypoint travel and remove the portal from the Mists. Whenever you use the same button you used to go there, you would just end up on the place you were before. There is no reason for that gate to LA there.

Now, I really (and sadly) don’t believe reducing the costs would make people happy. They would just keep using LA as a fee reducer for the already reduced costs but would not stop complaining about the fees until they are free… Because people just can’t have enough.

I never minded walking a bit just to reduce my waypoint fees… Guess that’s exactly what people should do and it really doesn’t hurt.

Problem is that would make speed buffs completely useless…

Jordan.6157:

Curuniel.4830:

“Aside from being “fun” there is no real goal"

…So?

Personally I’m fine with that. It’s ok if not everyone is. If infinite progression is what you want out of a game, there are plenty of other games that offer it. Each to their own. Just because this is an MMORPG, though, doesn’t mean it has to work on the same principles as every other one. It just has to be massively multi-player and be a role-playing game. Check.

Call of Duty so popular because of progression through ranking. World of warcraft so popular because of progression through gear. Starcraft so popular because of progression through ranking. Only reason I play sPvP and haven’t given up on the same maps again and again is because I get a buzz from ranking. We all strive for progression and it is what makes games soo popular.

Each guild wars 2 is gonna be successful and please the majority of people it needs a bit of progression. I hate to admit it…. it sucks… but it does. Otherwise a massive majority of players looking for their gear weed will go back to WoW and you may have what you want with a better community and all… but poor arenanet will lose out on alot of MONEYS!

I’m not sure how the tPvP works, never participated, but I do believe it is ranked, altho I think they could add a ranking system for sPvP as well. People like to measure their capabilities and the nature of PvP is competitive, there is no reason for a ranking system there.

Sorry, it will never ever happen on any MMO genre.

Rukia.4802:

I will agree on mounts being needed in WvW. It’s a travesty traveling back and forth when you don’t have the waypoints.

I don’t think they are needed at all… Actually I hope they will never ever be implemented for PvP, even if someday they find it interesting to add them to PvE people.

rattkin.3719:

Thanks Deans, that might be a good solution., actually. As for others, yeah, you clearly don’t have the same problem I have.

I’ve also discovered that even downleveled, my utility skills and traits make a HUGE difference. As an D/D Ele I can faceroll through 6 mobs being downleveled to the same level as my friend is, yet she’s struggling as a Me to kill just one/two mobs. So the downleveling doesn’t really make any difference, other than the fact that I don’t have infinite health. What this means, is that I feel like an intruder when playing with my friend, because it’s not fun at all for her to see me killing everything in few secs, while she brings little to the game. I literally have to limit myself and not burst so many attacks, so that she can have some fighting too. It’s no longer her accomplishment or team accomplishment, it’s just me. Which is just the same old problem of high level player helping lowbies.

What I was trying to say is that (apparently, correct me if I’m wrong) GW2 did not solve the problem here, though they advertised they did. So I have my char downleveled, so what? I still can’t really play with my friend. In WoW there are repeatable quests or quests that can be shared. I was hoping for GW2 to introduce something new and refreshing here and I guess I’m somewhat disappointed. Let’s see how this will work out, once they stop fighting with hackers and bugs and can concentrate on bringing new features.

I’m not sure what is your problem here. Is it the lack of rewards for you, as you already done the hearts yourself, or how strong your character is related to the low level mobs you are fighting, even downleveled?

You complained about two different things on your post. The first one, the answer is simple: ask your friend to go, with you, to another race’s starting zone… I’ve done this with multiple friends with my alts. Now if your problem is that you are strong enough to faceroll any low level mob, then, no repeatable quest will help you and you will still faceroll everything.

Now, I’m not sure if it is a zone related problem, because I only started to notice an increase in power on my elementalist after level 35, when rares started to drop for me. Before that, downleveling myself would make me stronger, compared to the low level content, yes, altho not that much as you are saying.

Anyways, I’m sorry your experience is somewhat different. I had a blast redoing all the low level content dozens of times with friends and their alts. Hopefully you figure it out. Have fun!

Waypoints makes travel across the map so easy that I really don’t see any reason for mounts. Also, why would we have mounts for PvE, but not for PvP? This would just make no sense, but I can give you reasons behind the no mount mentality for WvW.

With mounts, speed buff would lose any kind of necessity for groups. Everyone would just pick up their mounts from their pockets and run around at maximum speed. So, introducing mounts would have some impact on the game mechanics and, as they are not really needed, the devs probably thought the game would be better without them.

And I’m sorry, but if something as minimal as mounts is enough to make you quit the whole game, then my friend, I believe your problem is not that, exactly, but the game itself. It would be the same as someone else saying ’I’ll quit if they don’t make Asuras taller".

Sheen.8196:

Skorpio.3571:

Sheen.8196:

I’ve noticed with gw2 that it is a battle of proficient gamers vs casual gamers… the proficient gamers went through everything easily, they don’t think any of the dungeons are challenging, and they feel like the game has very little content… yet a bunch of casuals who will hit that point in a few months are sitting here telling them they play incorrectly? Since when is being the most efficient in your rotations and completing tasks, playing incorrectly?

It’s not proficient vs. casual, it’s time played. The “proficient” just have 10 times the amount of hours put in.

Why do people always confuse casual with bad? Casual just as much means players that only log in for 1-2 hours a day or possibly even gasp skip a day!

PS- I agree with most of your other points in this thread.

Wrong… proficient gamers don’t necessarily have to be hardcore, whether they play a ton or a little, they still do everything more quickly and more efficiently.

It might take a proficient gamer an hour to do something a casual would do in 3 hours. I don’t mean casual as in play time, I mean casual as in attitude… the whole “I am going tokittenaround, not really know what i’m doing, and just hit my spells in a way that seems to make sense to me”.

These people consume content more slowly, and because of their careless attitude they often don’t play as much. (People that aren’t passionate about a hobby often would invest less time in such a hobby)

Try to define my playstyle, please… I’m curious about it…

I play around 4-5 hours a day;
I have 6 chars (bought an extra slot);
I do not have a 80 yet. My main is a 50 elementalist;
I have created and deleted many alts to make room for others;
I know almost everything I could/should about any of my chars and the others I don’t have, mostly because I love PvP and to be good with that, I have to know every class mechanic out there;
I had no problems with dungeons whatsoever until now. Had a horrible experience with AC story mode and wonderful ones on explorables. Bad group x good one;
I blow through content easly if I want. I’m yet to find a challenge that makes me believe I’m a bad player of any level (with the exception of one low level personal quest that I died multiple times on my elementalist);
I complete every map before moving to the next;
I have done all DEs up to my level, many many times;
I have my personal quest up to my level;
I watch my money and have, right now, around 5 gold with most of my equip being rares and mostly up to 8-10 levels below my own level. I buy items on the TP every 5-10 levels;
I have helped many low level guildies with informations or company with one of my chars;
I have at least 2 cities completed for every one of my chars, and all of them for my main;

Please, tell me how do you classify my playstyle… Am I casual? Or maybe hardcore? O just an uncategorized kind of player… Let me know how do I fit on your theory

There are many 80s defending the game… My guild is full of 80s in full exotics who are still enjoying the game… And still playing every single day.

Please learn to not talk for anyone else but you on your posts. Thank you!

Am I casual just because I didn’t rush to 80? I do very well in pvp and pve with all my chars, I read a lot about them, their builds and try to maximize efficiency on my playstyle, it just happen that efficiency, to me is not, in any way, related to how fast I reach level 80.

So, it’s not about “proficients” vs casuals… It’s about opinions, only that. You have yours, I have mine.

Lance Coolee.9480:

Furthermore, reducing the cost of the items does not remove the grind, it merely makes it more manageable.

For the content designers to really hold true to their word, obtaining rewards would have more of a dynamic “quest-based” feel (where there are uniquely clear objectives in place that would drive the player to the end result), rather than the cookie cutter “do x, y times”.

That would be a way better approach, in my opinion… Or just the crafting approach of GW1.

And as noted before, everyone with some sense of what a MMO is all about would feel lied to about the manifesto part of “we don’t want players to grind” because even the level up process is a grind of a sort . Don’t be so obtuse, people.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dead.7385:

deriver.5381:

The low level content is definitely easier to high level players. If things were given with the same chance as Orr, there would be noone there and low level areas would be flooded by high level players 2 shotting things.

I think that is one of the issues holding them back. For all the posts of “no progression” it is easy to see when your 80 with full traits the amount of DPS you can put out is just imbalanced for the area’s.

How about this: Any level 80 zone would be excluded from this (so basically Orr/Frostgorge).

If you are 80 downscaled and you go to farm a lower level zone you have a DR on all events across the zone. So basically for a while you get drops your level similar to the rate of Orr. Then it will start to drop gear based on the level range of the zone. It won’t impact Karma etc, but loot wise it will hurt. That allows people who want to salvage gear from those area’s the ability too, and those that want something not filled with undead mobs that pull you or blank white snow a place to kill and progress.

You can then either: Go back to Orr, or go to another zone and hunt there.

Why does there have to be limits and anti-loot code everywhere? Why can’t I just play the game how I want to?

I don’t understand the mentality in this game that everyone has to be having fun a certain way or they are doing fun wrong…

A game is all about limits, my friend. Everything you do is based on the rules they created for the world you are virtually experiencing. So, this question by itself is pointless.

“Why can’t I fly? That’s all I want… I loved flying on other games and not being able to do it here is limiting my game experience. I can’t understand this mentality” – You see? I can use this same argument for just about anything. So, it’s really not a valid point.

I never found WoW’s raids any fun. I hated them, but I forced myself to play them because I loved playing with my friends, and to keep playing with them through the new content, I had to have all the top gear. I hate gear grind, but their raid system only allowed me to run a raid once a week. Why? All I care was the possibility to play with my friends, limiting my badges and loots per week was only keeping me away from what was fun to me.

You can’t really create a game without rules, and every rule will be a limiting factor of some type.

If you give a hand, people will demand an arm… It is always like that.

WoW’s system keeps part of its high level content outside your reach by gear quality metrics. It’s system forces you to repeat lower tier content so you can improve your gear and become strong enough for the next. If you want to see that content, you will hate to grind. To many people, this is a carrot and a good one. It may be, but that’s not the point.

Here, you get the top gear, in terms of stats, pretty fast but the game also gives you an option for more long term oriented goals. Why is it an option? Because those goals won’t make your character stronger, only look better.

Now, I agree they could came up with better ways for skin hunting aside from just mindless repetition of the same content, and I already gave some ideas about it on different threads. But they didn’t… So, for now, if you really feel the necessity of a better look, you will need to grind. Just bear in mind that it’s not tied in any way to your character development throught the progression of the game. Your character is already fully developed if you have 80 exotics, even the bad looking and somewhat easy to access crafted ones.

So, arguing over semantics makes people look really immature. What they said on the Manifesto stands to an extent, although I agree they could have said it better. There is grind, you people are just not forced into it just to continue your character development and/or compete against others to spots in groups because of power limitations.

Try to keep your expectations as realistic as possible, or if all you care about is complain, keep wasting your time here… There will always be people willing to stand up and defend the game as much as you guys are willing to bash it.

It will just keep going endlessly…

And those are the only threads around, right? Take your time to read again what I posted… Maybe you need to read it twice to understand.

I’d say “go back to wow” if you were here asking for gear treadmill, for instance. It’s not the case, right? Then get your facts straight and understand what is happening around you. There are dozens of troll (yes, troll) posts being created everyday and a lot of unjustified negativity, and they have nothing to do with the valid complains we have around.

Zen wants to make us believe that every single poster who complains about something has legit reasons for it.

Good try!

There are many who have… Yet many others who don’t. I’ve laughed at and agreed with complain posts here, two completely opposite reactions. Guess I’m just bipolar.

I think the game has room for some great ideas on drops normalization. I just don’t think they should drop from the same nodes/mobs you get low level stuff… Maybe DEs could give them and definitely meta events should normalize drops to promote downleveling.

Maybe introduce new mechanics for this… I thought about hunting quests, all over the world. Like a wandering npc that would trade a drop you could get from champion mobs for items related to your original level. So, a 80 downleveling to Queensdale could get from this npc the items he would only find in Orr.

I think there should be ways to achieve the same goal, but I do believe that we should care about proportionality as well. The low level content is definitely easier to high level players. If things were given with the same chance as Orr, there would be noone there and low level areas would be flooded by high level players 2 shotting things.

This forum has so many trolls that I’m inclined to believe some are being paid to badmouth the game.

There are many posts with valid points… Also everyone agree the game has quite a lot of bugs, but it’s a new game and bugs will get fixed. It really pisses me off to see people complaining about bugs as they would be responsible for the end of the world, the certain fall of the game and all the doomsaying they manage to put up together. This hyperbole thing seems like common on troll posts. The good thing is… it makes them easy to spot.

Hunterdan.4921:

Tea Eye Ay.6248:

I agree with the OP. It seems many players feel like they’ve “finished” the game and it’s not even been out more than a month.

Sure. They only feel that they’ve finished because they’ve been dining on the gameplay, rather than working towards an end game aspect of gameplay.

If I could raid in WoW from level 1 on, easily, then I would tire of raiding rather quickly.

I very much look forward to what the first new released content is like. It will be very interesting to see what they do.

I failed to understand your point here… My last alt on wow was a Mage. It took me less than a month to level him to 85, and way more than a month to get only a dagger, a staff (which was a random drop), one chestpiece and another piece of armor I forgot now, through raiding…

So it takes way more than the time need to level a char from 1-85 to get a full set of gear through raiding on WoW. From your comments I may take that you will always get tired of raiding rather quickly.

Unless I missed your point entirely