but they are purposely stacking the higher mmr/skills players on 1 team
instead of evening them outnow that, in itself is not fair
Why would it be fair for a high MMR player to be “evened out” with lesser teammates? That was actually the system in season 1 and it was wildly criticized.
Maybe it was wildely criticised. However, it was fair as soon as a certain division was reached. Every player has the same probability to get assigned to a certain group. Hence, an average player has a probability of winning a game in 50% of the cases. The probability of winning 5 matches in a row (and winning a tier) are (1/2)^5=1/64. This is probable especially since I just calculate with the mean probability. Hence, everything beyond division 4 could be won by an average player by just playing many matches. However, from division 4 onwards, you could lose tiers. Thus, the probabilities changed. I did not count the total number of pipes in division 4. So I cannot calculate the exact probability for an average player. It should be (1/2)^(number of pipes). In other words, you will not get past division 4 if you are not better than the average of division 4. Since the better players move on to division 5, the average drops constantly. This problem can be overcome by either allowing to lose tiers from division 3 onwards or by adding divisions.
The current system (the mmr-system) changes the probability of a win and predetermines it for the player. An average player who joins a team of really good players gets more wins than a player with a really bad team. Consequently, the player with the really good teammates gets really good teammates again while the player with the bad teammates gets bad teammates again.
What can be done to avoid the painful time through low divisions for good players is that they get a 1 division rank-up at the beginning. Then they are among themselves and can rank up from there quickly.
I have no clue what they have done in the development team of ArenaNet. WvW was killed (sorry to say it that clear). PvP was not thought through with all its consequences. If I were the boss, I would step in and replace some key persons. From far outside I would say that the mistake they made was to focus on the hardcore players and streamer. However, the majority of the players are anything EXCEPT hardcore. The majority of the players generate the income. I have doubts that there will be a Guild Wars 3.
Probably because its a team match? :o
yes ofc! How does it relate to the discussion?
to say something constructive:
My suggested solution would be for this season to give up the mmr-ranking. Next season should have 1 division more but you can lose tiers from division 3 onwards. Then a player who (on average) loses more than he wins will be stuck in division 3, an average player in divison 4/5 and the best players in division 6+. It will be boring for the good players at the beginning but more fun in the end.
snip
I would consider myself as an average player. My current rank does not reflect my abilities!
What is your current rank/tier? If you’re sapphire t3-4, and you state you are an average player, you’re right in the middle of the ladder.
Since you ask: My win/loss ratio is roughly 50% (1500/750). I am currently losing more than winning. Hence, I am in Emerald. I just had a match where I won every 1 vs. 1 but lost the entire match with 500 to 150.
I agree with Crimson kittenhat it feels like the MM system is working as intended. The leagues are not perfect as they desperately need a placement system to move players into their proper division faster. Yet I also find that almost everyone complaining about the MM system immediately writes themselves off as above average or godly players who can make no mistake and that all their other teammates are the problem and MM is to blame. As OP states there are the vocal minority who might have some “bad luck” with the MM system. Even then most of the half decent players are at least in saph/ruby by now and it shouldn’t be that much of a struggle to get a few wins out.
Then again the intention of this post was to not turn into another kitten about the MM system. It was a productive post to help some people maybe spot what other teammates are doing and possibly giving them tips as to how to improve, or how themselves can improve.
Honestly no matter how perfect you think you may play, there is always room for improvement. This post is helpful, maybe not to all the MM kitteners, but to anyone else just getting into pvp who want to improve.
You forget in your reasoning one important point (which is crucial): The system decides who is good and who is bad.
I will explain the impact on two examples:
1) A person wrote here in the forum a couple of days back roughly the following:
“I used to have a win/loss ratio of 70%. In the last league, I made it until division 5. As things are, opponents become more and more skilled as higher you get. Hence, my win/loss ratio dropped. Now I get paired with bad players and my win/loss ratio (and thus the mmr) went down.”
2) Let us imagine the same player was busy until one week before the last league ended. He then started playing and (likely) made it to division 3 quickly with a win/loss ratio of above 70%. The same player now gets carried by the system upwards.
A fait evaluation can only be made if the player reaches the same position in both cases. Obviously, he does not.
A small comment to the initial post of this thread:
I did most of the things as described in the post. I can play a couple of classes, I adjusted the build several times, I am rather quiet than raging about my fellow team-members and I am pulling 2-3 enemies for a fight for about 1 min. It doesnt help if the remaining 4 players cannot beat 3 of the enemy team. My problem is the same as in example 1. I used to be in a high division last season. I would consider myself as an average player. My current rank does not reflect my abilities!
Alpine back!
The new borderlands have many nice features. However, also few major flaws. Most important: The map is too large. Hence, I would recommend to bring back the alpine BL and adjust the desert BL. It would bring back players who left before. Otherwise there will not be a WvW when the map is finally fixed.
The EU-server lost more players than the non-EU-server. Especially, the hardcore-player (those who actually stayed awake at night) are gone. I am on an EU-world which used to be among the top-5 consistently until HoT came… As a player I see two options:
1) play PvE (PvP currently has some problems as well)
2) leave the game as well.
If I look at the answers to your reply and the remaining posts in other threads, I believe most players complain about the number of fellow players in WvW. The solution (which is longer in the debate) is to merge worlds. However, I also know players who go to small worlds because there are less other players. When we find a solution, it must be a solution for all players. It is not feasible if Anet invests many ressources in the changes and it does not work out.
Currently merging servers would only cure the symptoms and not the problem. If most of the players queue for EB anyway, it is not a good idea to increase the number of players so that even more queue for EB. In a first step the BL have to become more attractive, then we can discuss merging worlds (or creating globes). Furthermore, we have to consider that enlarging the player basis as proposed would change the characteristics of the community. The proposal would increase the number of players quite drastically. Now it is possible to have an overview of the most important players and guilds. Will this be the case after the changes? I think that is an important issue to adress.
Another point came up to me: How does the proposal change the incentives each player has. I talked about the familiarity which may decrease before. Another example are the anti-troll rules. Let us imagine a guild with 50 members doesnt like a certain other player or two guilds dont like each other. Now they vote the other(s) as “troll”. I fear that Anet would be drawn in the middle of the conflicts. However, this should not be the goal. I think your proposal should be rethought in this direction.
I wouldnt say that I cannot handle changes. Many things Anet changed were actually good and enhanced the character of WvW. I like that Dolyaks are (more or less) invulnerable if they are acompanied by a player. I hated it before when a thief came (stealthed) critted the dolyak and ran away. Now the thief has to kill me first, then the dolyak. It makes sense to defend it!
Another advantage are the auto-upgrades. We voiced a lot because some “stupid” person started an upgrade or started the wrong upgrade. Of course, there were some trolls as well who just had fun with burning all supplies. This was made a lot harder now! However, what I admit is that the auto-upgrades need to worked over again. Especially in the area of another server, they should be made slower. But also camps upgrade too fast. I barely see a dolyak alone on the road.
A third advantage is that it became difficult to flip a camp, a tower, a keep or even sm alone. It was pretty annoying when there was a (stealthed) thief remaining who flipped the keeps/towers back as soon as the lord was vulnerable. It also fought the hacking problem. Why should a single person hack himself into a tower when he cant flip it himself?
Nevertheless, all these positive points do not hide that some things went wrong. Mainly, there is an imbalance between defence and offence towards the defence direction. This gets most obvious at the new bls. It is too easy to defend a keep alone or with 1 or 2 other players.
Another problem is that the maps are too large (or the players too slow). If you get killed somewhere on the map and respawn, it gets hard to catch up with the remaining players.
I believe if the two negative points get cleared, the borderlands will attract more players.
One more personal remark: WvW means world versus world. I say it and I like to stress it when I see duells in WvW. The driver of WvW are the large scale fights and the tactics on greater level where many players have to work together. I fully understand that people like challenging themselves with others e.g. in a duell. However, I think this is rather something for Player versus Player (PvP). Maybe one option could be that Anet implements a 1v1 in PvP. The same is true from my perspective for GvG. I think it would be nice if Anet could implement a GvG-map in PvP. However, WvW has different mechanics and (what is more important) different aims. I would like to stress that I dont have a problem with these two forms of challenges. However, I do have a problem where they dont belong to!
They design these well in advance. They couldn’t have known 6 months ago that there would’ve been a plane crash recently.
They could have posponed the joke.
Thread is definately april fools.
No it is not!
When I logged in tonight, I first smiled. April 1st… However, my smile froze rapidly. There was a major plane crash last week in France in which 150 people lost their lifes. For more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525
Given the recent event and given that the event is still present in the media, the idea was suboptimal. I would suggest taking out the april fool immediately and write an ingame apology.