(edited by mistsim.2748)
Maybe I need to get my hands on it but from the level of information we have, the mechanics are carrying the appeal, and the functionality in the traits is lacking.
SLB mechanics will like revolve around boon procs like fury, quickness, and prot, and maximizing ferocity. I also see it as a versatile e-spec whose playstyle will drastically vary depending on which pets you choose. I think you’re having a hard time imagining it now because we haven’t tried the different pet combinations. It seems that the ranger sort of becomes the pet while in beastmode.
Two things will affect the playstyle: the F3 of the pet category, and the F1-F2 which will depend on the pet family. I thought this was very clever design. What I like the most is that all 5 F3’s are quite powerful, if not game-changing, and the choice of these will decide how the spec feels.
Condi-based builds will get us to specialize into bleeds and poison. I see the torch completely disappearing from our repertoire. Sb/d/d looks strong for dueling and skirmishing. GS/d/x looks appropriate for power burst builds. I am worried about a few of our weapons falling by the wayside, like MH axe and sword.
SLB will also complement and enhance our other trait lines in a much bigger way than the druid did. so I expect to see a new variety of LB builds. it will also open up new support builds that are different from the druid, which is what excites me the most.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
So, you can make arguments for both, and that’s exactly what a good design is all about.
imo, this is how most weapons should be: scalable with condi and power. MH axe and SB still have ways to go to be effective with power builds.
not sure what the interest is in this, but I love the functionality of this ability now.
however, instead of summoning MUD, could we instead be summoning an aoe patch of vines? also, it’s really hard to see where this ability lands.
i did enjoy it. obviously you’ve mastered the build, and your mechanics are near perfect. your use of quickdraw and smoke blasts were very entertaining.
ive been away from the game for almost 2 years so i didnt get to enjoy the druid in wvw, but i’ll be picking up this build until the Soulbeast is out.
Barskin got removed from the game. I imagine it will impact this build quite a bit. Are you changing anything up?
i hope u like this build in wvw untill soulbeast comes and maybe soulbeast will live up to your expectations.
as for my build after the patch, yes barskin has been removed that decreases my damage reduction, but since im zerk ill have to swap some trinckets with maybe knight or cavalier stats to help with the dmg reduction, and ill have to swap my rune from dolyak to maybe a boon duration rune, since barskin has been replaced with Rugged Growth this helps with healing reg while getting affected by protection and with companions defense and my energy sigils on both weapons this gives me 6+s of protection+reg thats almost perma protection. i would say it got slightly nerfed but buffed aswell.
this is only for wvw, my pvp build is the same. but yah ill have to test it out more.
I’m thinking Runes of Durability most likely?
I’d like to see the white damage as well on the other 2 abilities. the double leap looks very strong on its own, so it has the potential to be our strongest MH weapon. I’m worried that sword will become completely irrelevant, and MH axe will continue to suck outside of condi builds.
spiritual reprieve is quite strong. that’s 4k heals without HP, and 3s Resistance is huge in the condi meta. that’s enough time for the condis to get cleansed by your group.
Primal Cry belongs on some dueling condi build.
So with the trait leaks, we now have a clearer picture about what the prof can do. I always wanted to play my ranger in the dps/support frontline role, but we never had the tools.
I think it will be worthwhile to bring SLB’s just for sharing One Wolf Pack if it doesn’t have some stupid ICD. if it does, then Dolyak, bear and Moa stances are looking strong. Looking at the leaked traits, this e-spec seems obvious for a frontline dps/support role due to how tanky it is.
the GS is an obvious weapon choice. Unblockable Maul + Wordly Leap + OH axe combos should arguably be some of the highest aoe burst in the game, unless other e-specs are broken OP, which is possible knowing ANet.
I’m thinking dagger/OH axe will be the other weapon set. Key here being the Unstoppable Union trait. MH axe is clumsy, and sword takes you away from your group. WH would be a good choice for a boon support build.
Given all the survivability options, we’ll probably be able to go with a combination or pure valk/marauder/cavalier stats and spike groups for 12k+ unblockable aoe damage in under a second with quickness, which the prof seems to interact with very strongly with.
I really don’t think condi builds will work, because our traps are in a rough shape and we can’t really slot them in these fights due to their lack of utility. 2-3 of our utility slots will have to be stances.
on a side note, I don’t doubt for a sec that we’ll be one of the strongest skirmishing/dueling e-specs in the game., with something like d/d/sb. Overall though, IF the e-spec is held back by anything, it would be our bad vanilla weapons. Obviously we don’t have staff available.
in the end, I’m pretty excited for wvw and pvp. what do you guys think?
p.s. I’m really enjoying our interactions with fury, ferocity and quickness. it’s so…rangery. I’m the biggest Irenio fanboy tbh.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
Some of you may not remember JP’s antics but the infamous shortbow firerate nerf where his explanation (excuse) made no logical sense
oh, I remember.
^offensive druid builds are 100% better for dueling/skirmishing, because of all the stealth and staff in general.
Our main role in a zerg will be to tank up and cooldown spam bear stance, dolyak stance, and Spiritual reprieve.
.
kitten it, i’ll take it.
The druid was an incredibly well designed spec. It improved our skirmishing and overall survivability on offensive builds, and added a very mechanically fun support playstyle. I had a blast with a druid.
Irenio seems to be doing a fantastic job with the Soulbeast as well. It’s addressing a lot of our weakness, some of which are: lack of frontloaded damage, fragile & clumsy pets, poor stability and sustain, and group utility (other than healing). I super stoked for the SB.
You can argue that they really kittened up on the CORE ranger. Arguably, the core LB builds have gotten really good over time, and especially since the last patch. But most other core ranger builds are garbage. They’ve addressed most of our terrible traits, but a few of the weapons are quite weak with the core spec. They will, however, likely be very strong on the Soulbeast. For example, OH axe and GS will play great.
So in conclusion, I’m a huge fan of Irenio. I think he’s done one hell of a job pulling this prof out of the gutter with the druid, new pets, and trait reworks. The SB looks very promising so far.
Core zerker longbow is pretty kitten good after the recent buffs. Probably the strongest long range single target damage in the game. The rest of the core builds are quite poor due to lack of good stability and sustained damage. SB will fix a lot of issues with the class in wvw. But as someone else said, the core ranger we have known for years will simply disappear as more specs are released.
i did enjoy it. obviously you’ve mastered the build, and your mechanics are near perfect. your use of quickdraw and smoke blasts were very entertaining.
ive been away from the game for almost 2 years so i didnt get to enjoy the druid in wvw, but i’ll be picking up this build until the Soulbeast is out.
Barskin got removed from the game. I imagine it will impact this build quite a bit. Are you changing anything up?
sword daredevil just got buffed. it absolutely WRECKS LB builds. and you cant run from them. so imo, this isnt the best for skirmishing.
There’s a massive amount of damage that’s nigh impossible to stop.
it just eats single targets for breakfast, and punches through the entire zerg. I’ve never played a LB ranger like this one. it just feels entirely different to have almost every arrow connect.
yes, it’s glass and positioning is key. you need people protecting you, which is why I see it only as a support build. you can’t really duel with it. might as well just run shoutbow for that. but you can buff your backliners with a ton of free damage while picking things off from a distance.
You can already do this with hammer rev, and that has cleave.
I don’t feel the hammer rev is anything like this. CoR’s damage is often unreliable, you have no single target pressure, weak to non-existent sustained damage, the “unblockable” trait is unreliable whereas ours is on-demand, and you give nothing to your squad other than personal damage. so i would say: might as well run a power wellmancer instead.
who knows, i might just play Deadeye for this role, but until then there is this.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
But anyway back to the OP, it is pretty obvious if you look at a lot of the nerfs across many classes that they are setting up the powercreep for PoF to “encourage” people to buy it, because their product isn’t apparently good enough to stand on things like quality content, features, etc.
this is nothing more than irrational conspiracy theorizing. I don’t even need to address the rest of your drivel.
there is way too much whining about stability, as if it was ever good for the ranger. but I understand everyone is entitled to express themselves civilly. I will just say that the only viable build SoW was ever used for was the bunker condi ranger. while its active was nice for stomping people, it was mostly used for its regen that scaled with HP. other than this, SoW should never have been slotted, unless your talking some cheesy wvw glassbow build.
I’d be baffled to see all this crying over spilled milk, if I wasn’t in the ranger forums where tears and hissy fits trump reason and optimism. as if we didnt get to dominate pvp for two whole years with the druid, during which SoW was never slotted.
to conclude, stability gated by cast-times was always a major problem for the ranger. a removal of one such ability, out of the two, makes zero difference for the profession moving forward. SoW was just a very situational utility. mind you, even in the current rework it is by far the weakest of the signets.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
i think Soulbeast is gonna be nuts with signets. imagine having Vicious Quarry, SoW, Brutish Seals, Remorseless (all triggered on Fury) —> pop SoH --> unblockable Remorseless Worldly Leap with +500 ferocity. wtf.
IMO Soulbeast is going to be useless And you know why? because it will be an spec which will need to play like the thief actually does now but without all the mobility and stealth that class has. So mark my words: i pretty sure soulbeast will a be another disappointment.
Why would a core ranger perform better than a Soulbeast?
Why would you compare Soulbeast’s gameplay to a Thief?
Just curious.
thats just what he does. all of his posts are irrational whines.
sure for pve maybe. however, there arent any viable pvp power builds that involve axes. maybe with Soulbeast.
took me a while to realize it and find the right builds, but Signets are very strong now. not only can u buff others, but we also easily gain +500 ferocity which is nuts. SoH is insanely strong. people will actually have to start using reflects now, or it’s pewpew-geddon.
Edit: I am absolutely sure, I poured over the patch notes, we gained NO new condi removals. Your 100 gold offer is invalid.
we gained two new instant condi wipes, with WK interacting with Zephyr’s Speed and Soften the Fall. if you trait WK, you can clear condis just by swapping pets, or casting any heal. SoR was also buffed with regards to condi removal. jcbroe did some math, read it.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.
really man? our stab abilities always had a cast time. stab abilities with a cast time are garbage, because you can’t use them when you need them the most.
If you think that, then either you obviously never played WvW /PvP or you yourself are the inexperienced player.
you’re the one saying really outlandish things, not me. i guess i’ll take my 3k hours in wvw and pvp, half of it on my ranger, and go sit over there. and you just keep thinking RANGERS had some of the best stability in the game. hint: with the exception of thieves and necros, we always had the worst stab in the game because of our cast-times. warriors, guards, eles, even engies all had insta-stab, i.e. the only kind that counts.
and when you stop wallowing about losing “some of the best stab in the game”, you’ll realize how insanely powerful the new signets are.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
Edit: The stab used to pulse mistsim.
right my mistake, i forget how many iterations it went through.
SotP was ok sometimes because of how long it lasts
SotP used to be hands down, inarguably the best elite in the game and the best stab in the game. Now it’s complete horse kitten. That’s a weird 180.
it really never was. it was easy to corrupt it because it didnt pulse. and any stab ability with a cast time is not very useful for the reason i explained above. at least not in wvw. duels and small fights, different story because stomping is important.
It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.
really man? our stab abilities always had a cast time. stab abilities with a cast time are garbage, because you can’t use them when you need them the most.
pre-casting stability was never really a thing on the ranger. it just didnt work. SotP was ok sometimes because of how long it lasts, but overall it sucks as well. we need instacast stab, and Dolyak Stance will give us that with the Soulbeast. rangers never belonged in the frontline wvw scenario, but druids pretty much require stab from other sources, like necros.
in summary, losing SoW’s stab is trivial because it was never slotted in any decent build. our signets received good and thoughtful buffs across the board. i imagine this outcry is coming from really inexperienced players mostly.
sorry, didnt see this before i made my own thread.
Glass Cannon Support for WvW:
just playing around with Vicious Quarry and SoH. some people have already started running these glassy builds. basically the idea here is for you to stay in the back, buffing your backliners with +20% damage for a short duration, while dishing out unblockable, piercing LB autoattacks.
you’re not really supposed to take any damage, hence full zerker. this is ultimately just a support spec, i.e. super reliant on your group.
I wanted to keep Druid for the staff to allow for easy repositioning.
you honestly dont even need QZ, but there it is.
Red moa for the long fury.
Lesser Stone Signet in case you make a mistake, Druidic Clarity if clipped by condis.
single out and kill all opposing backliners, but it also kittens guards pretty hard. people will have to start slotting and using a lot more reflects.
maybe the Deadeye will end up doing this better, but for now this is what we can do with the recent buffs. the damage buffs we give to those around us sort of makes this build unique. and SoH is by far the most powerful too pewpew rangers/druids have ever had, at least for wvw.
second one is just a variant on the Minstrel Druid. Muddy Terrain is worth slotting now, so I’ve maxed condi duration for long immobilizes. youre essentially doing the Minstrel thing, while spamming immobs/slow. not my build, another player gave it to me in another thread.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
just playing around with Vicious Quarry and SoH. some people have already started running these glassy builds. basically the idea here is for you to stay in the back, buffing your backliners with +20% damage for a short duration, while dishing out unblockable, piercing LB autoattacks.
you’re not really supposed to take any damage, hence full zerker. this is ultimately just a support spec, i.e. super reliant on your group.
I wanted to keep Druid for the staff to allow for easy repositioning.
you honestly dont even need QZ, but there it is.
Red moa for the long fury.
Lesser Stone Signet in case you make a mistake, Druidic Clarity if clipped by condis.
single out and kill all opposing backliners, but it also kittens guards pretty hard. people will have to start slotting and using a lot more reflects.
maybe the Deadeye will end up doing this better, but for now this is what we can do with the recent buffs. the damage buffs we give to those around us sort of makes this build unique.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
this suggestion is independent of the current bug. im assuming that will get fixed.
random cool thought: could this ability become ground targeted, and allow the Fern Hound to turn into a wisp while traveling? once it arrives, then it delivers the heal and turns back into the physical form. double the CD of the ability. no new animations needed.
When it comes to zerg fights this is a pretty good build and a very dynamic one.
glad to see you post that build, as I’ve been using something very similar and loving it. it has so much more utility than just a straight up healbot. i dont have the ideal gear yet, but even with my old valk/cavalier set with a few minstrel pieces, i’ve found it super effective and survivable, and i love QZ with it. the multiple immobs totally crush the retreating backliners on the regroups. MT is actually worth slotting now, hands down.
I’m rolling with NM/WS/druid atm. I like the warhorn trait, and Protective Ward. TU wipes 4 condis now, so there’s that too. for the last utility slot, there are a lot of options, but Glyph of Tides is neat as it gives another aoe immob with AS, assuming their stab is down…so situational. probably just Protect Me.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
i know im a bit late to the party, but i’ve been playing some druid in wvw while waiting for PoF. I think I’m pretty done with the Longbow after 3 years of using it.
anyway, i noticed you really dont need a lot of healing power to be effective in keeping your zerg up, so I’m wondering if I could distribute my stats differently from Minstrel, which just seems like overkill.
that being said, where would my damage even come from? maybe just Natural Convergence? I’d say Maul from GS, but I’d find it tough to give up the staff/s/wh. maybe it’s worthwhile have some decent power, crit and crit damage for staff #1 spam and NC?
I’m also slotting my utilities differently. with the new Muddy Terrain and Soften the Fall, I have a bunch of survival utilities. I’m not finding shouts to be necessary at all. I also have a free slot for a glyph. Anyone run Empowerment?
(edited by mistsim.2748)
it seems to blast the water fields just fine, but it’s not blasting my Smokescale’s smoke field.
we should reserve judgement on this one. might work out with SB. currently, it’s useless for druid and core ranger.
Ranger would hugely benefit from cele stats and might stacking. it seems it would be great for Soulbeast as well, given the hybrid nature of dagger.
lets not pretend anyone actually used SotW in effective builds. including the trait from Marks. Soulbeast will give you all the stability you need.
Lesser QZ does indeed work with WK. so when you swap pets, you get instant 2-condi cleanse. if you swap to a bear, you get a near-instant 4-condi wipe, which is not bad.
edit: holy kitten, i didnt see Soften the Fall includes the use of a healing skill. with WK traited, now you can wipe condis with WHaO >.<
Mmmm what?
We are still locked down into WS but that doesn’t sound bad.
plus MT is actually worthwhile slotting now. it’s a serious aoe debuff.
If that works for Soften the Fall too… That means i can cleanse 4 Conditions by Pooing my Pants and slow Enemies? \o/ what a time to be alive
it’s actually insane, and MT is hella strong now.
…with the way WK interacts with Soften the Fall and Zephyr’s Speed. not to mention Muddy Terrain (MT, because it might deserve an actual acronym now) is worth slotting now.
1. if you have WK traited, Soften the Fall (SotF) wipes 2 condis with WHaO, plus it casts MT in pbaoe range
2. with SotF + Zephyr’s Speed + WK, you can wipe 2 condis by swapping pets
it’s a lot of new combos, but they’re easy to pull off. enjoy!
Lesser QZ does indeed work with WK. so when you swap pets, you get instant 2-condi cleanse. if you swap to a bear, you get a near-instant 4-condi wipe, which is not bad.
edit: holy kitten, i didnt see Soften the Fall includes the use of a healing skill. with WK traited, now you can wipe condis with WHaO >.<
(edited by mistsim.2748)
I get your point about Remorseless builds, as I always tried to make them work. I love the mechanic. but they have never been viable, at least not in HoT. and are we suddenly gonna start using the Skirmishing line? dont think so. we need shouts from BM, we need Druid, we need NM.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
i cant say it any nicer than that.
1. you completely missed the chance to add the AMMO SYSTEM to an entire PILE of useless offhands and utilities. why would you do this? Path of Scars, spirits, traps, torch, shortbow, and more.
2. not sure why you would do this, but you actually managed to make the signets worse. SoR is entirely useless. what’s with its irrelevant regen ticks? and we dont care about the pet. it’s probably better that it dies to the condis, or i’d swap it out anyway. SoW – why do we need another pbaoe immob? Brutish Seals…. why would I want more fury lol? and finally SoH, it still wont get slotted because it doesnt do enough to justify its place on the bar. a few seconds of being unblockable, and literally nothing else is pretty trash.
3. Empathic Bond, again entirely lost for words here… you actually managed to make this GM even worse. 20% less condi duration? dudes, im getting bombed for 20 stacks of bleeds, 10 stacks of burning – i dont care about the duration. i need to wipe these INSTANTLY or im dead in two ticks. rangers need more on-demand condi wipes that isnt Wilderness Knowledge.
4. Vicious Quarry…again, why are you shoving fury down my throat? i dont want it, i dont need it. we never did! it’s the most ubiquitous and least important boon that exists. that leaves me with some ferocity which i get from gear, and a measly +10% crit chance. this is not a GM, no sir.
Muddy Terrain might be worth slotting now, but that’s probably the only positive here.
overall im quite stunned at how bad this patch is for the core ranger. some of the changes are utterly silly. gonna shelf mine for now, still looking forward to the Soulbeast.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
Blobs nowadays are like two guilds + pugs. God i miss EotM. Totally randoms zergs. No TS or other cheats, no lame meta builds and fun map mechanics. EotM were place where individual player skill did shine.
Yea I can agree with this. The biggest balance issue I see in WvW is the servers that run guild groups vs. the servers that don’t. 90% of the time you won’t stand a chance anymore because the meta is way too effective in an organized group for most random groups to counter.
Nonsense. Most pugs don’t use meta or any builds that make sense, they use random put together gears and traits which have little to no use in wvw perspective thus got owned.
this would greatly depend on the server, Mr. Henge of Denravi. servers that are more competitive have fewer randomly geared scrubs.
spirits, signets, and traps would be the obvious choices. they are so bad right now. regarding weapons, probably Path of Scars, MH axe, OH dagger, and some SB abilities could use charges.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
SH was a failed attempt at copying the MOBA genre. good riddance. I hated everything about it, and I knew it would be a colossal waste of resources from the very beginning.
there are no reflex requirements for GW2. at best, with a lot of experience you’ll get good at predicting what the opponent will do so you can pre-cast your block, evade, or dodge roll. there are way too many abilities in the game, most of them having animations that are too quick. there are a handful of animations that you can actually react to, but overall the game is a spamfest.
the good people who developed GW2 really had no clue about how to create a competitive title, which is why its e-sports got nowhere. if you look at OW or Dota2, the precast, aftercast, and animation dration of each and every ability are extremely important for the competitive health of these titles, and the devs are always paying attention to them. and this is why GW2 was never truly a “skill-based” game.
for GW2 to require reflexes and be a competitive title, they need to reduce the number of traits, abilities, condis and boons by about 50%. from there, they need to slow the game the kitten down so that people don’t have to rely on spam/prediction alone.
regardless, we love GW2 for what it is. I love ability combos, keeping track of all my cooldowns, the cool animations and effects. but let’s not kid ourselves by saying GW2 is a skill-based (i.e. reflex/reaction-based) game.
(edited by mistsim.2748)
I guess we’ll find out tomorrow.
Thanks guys. Is Marauder gear always a good investment for wvw, if I’m never gonna healbot? I’m also thinking Trailblazer might be hella strong for the Soulbeast (d/d/sb)
I’m gearing to play some wvw until PoF, and I was thinking about bringing my valk ranger back. I used to wreck people in high level spvp with it pre-HoT, but i’d like to know how it would fare in current wvw meta:
It has decent cleanses, a ton of CC, block, evades, mobility, stealth, 3 stunbreaks, stab, and really good stat distribution, which I could zerg with etc…but tbh I’m flying pretty blind as I’m not sure how cancerous wvw meta has become. I assume very condi-heavy.
Alternatively, I can go druid with Marauder gear:
p.s. I with the semi-recent pet responsiveness and GS buffs, I’d like to play a Tiger/GS-centric build.
my favorite wvw/pvp pet is the Tiger, along with the Smokescale usually. Both are super responsive, and Tiger’s F2 hits all the time for decent damage while giving u fury. the Tiger is amazing with the GS.