Guild Wars 2

Warlyx.6732:

yeah im dissapointed with dagger MH (and OH ) i have been wondering whats the point of adding dagger MH at all , it brings nothing to the table.

don’t be silly. it’s the only weapon we have that applies condis in a cleave. perhaps some numbers need buffing, but the idea behind the weapon is great.

to your second point: Druid was (and still is) one of the top pvp specs in the game.

I think we need a trap ult, as in: if you step in it, and don’t have a condi wipe, you die. and for them to have additional functions, kind of like survival utilities with WK. additional charges wouldn’t solve our problems.

you are completely delusional.

let me translate:

- condi Soulbeast does not look very strong, true.
- MH dagger seems better than the whining on this dreaded subforum represented it to be (this is what my post is saying).

extrapolation:

- there likely is not a causative association between a weaker MH dagger and bad condi builds on the ranger/Soulbeast.

Aomine.5012:

mistsim.2748:

Aomine.5012:

Saying Soulbeast dagger is fine -> It’s the weakest condition weapon ever.
Logic.

I’m afraid logic is not your friend.

You might want to check your post again lolz.
You admit it’s the weakest condition build ever and you then say it’s fine.
How is it fine then? It’s not only weak, it barely has any defensive aspect in it too.

how is what fine? what are you talking about? you seem to have an independent narrative going on inside your mind.

Aomine.5012:

Saying Soulbeast dagger is fine -> It’s the weakest condition weapon ever.
Logic.

I’m afraid logic is not your friend.

Aomine.5012:

So you expect a melee weapon that cleave 2 in a small range will suddenly beat the aoe condition application of Necro’s shade/ wells or thief just spamming dead blossom and dodge?

what in the world are you talking about? where did I say this? I feel condi Soulbeast will be one of the weakest condi builds in the game, but this has very little to do with MH dagger. you cant have one weapon solve all of our problems, like our other condi weapons and traps being trash.

secondly, just stop using other profs to compare weapon abilities. thief dagger is never gonna work like the warrior’s or ranger’s dagger. thieves have always been way squishier than rangers, so they need the extra evades. and your argument is moot anyway, because condi thieves are trash-tier, and I can smoke them on my druid playing with one hand.

and I have hundreds of hours on my thief, so I don’t need to “try dagger” to make your point more salient.

for pvp?

Devourer for sure. It has an interrupt, an evade, and a really fun F3.

Rock gazelle, smokescale and tiger look great for power builds. Hounds are great for the additional knockdown.

Jacaranda and bears for survivability.

I’m thinking Iboga and Wolf for condi builds. they look very strong there.

I was really disappointed by felines, birds, moas, drakes and wyverns. their Soulbeast abilities ended up feeling way too watered down and ineffectual.

Aomine.5012:

mistsim.2748:

im not sure what the point of this thread is, other than to whine some more. i certainly didnt expect them to put out a new build for the stress test. likely they will discuss any changes and our feedback during the e-spec livestream.

tldr: stop whining, and be patient.

My post is 100 times more constructive than this whine post about other people expressing their experience and opinion.

I’m not saying it’s nonconstructive (to you). forums are mostly for opinions anyways. I’m just wondering why you would expect a new build for the stress test. given that most people probably did not expect a new build, I interpreted your repetition of the same feedback from before as a whine.

applying condis with projectiles is terribly unreliable, which is why the condi ranger is in a godawful state. torch, SB, OH dagger and MH axe, as condi weapons, are outdated by about 2 years. MH dagger cleaves are much better at applying condis.

I guess whether the rate of attack is appropriate is up in the air. but i certainly didnt notice any problems with aftercasts and animations in general. contact points felt quite generous, ~120-ish. I also felt the same about Soulbeast pet abilities. animation cast times felt reasonable, even without quickness. but hey, if they buff the attack rates and cast times, I’ll take it. but it’s nowhere near the disaster that some of you guys were raising noise about.

im not sure what the point of this thread is, other than to whine some more. i certainly didnt expect them to put out a new build for the stress test. likely they will discuss any changes and our feedback during the e-spec livestream.

tldr: stop whining, and be patient.

terrorshard.3854:

mistsim.2748:

terrorshard.3854:

I really can’t justify subbing in WS for BM…I feel like you are giving up so much just to get a tiny bit more condition removal.

you get a ton more condi removal. TU interacts really nicely with Soften the Fall, so you never have to slot MT. Lesser MT just allows you to bunker a lot better. you get more prot, and more vigor. QZ increases our burst quite a bit.

BM does next to nothing for our damage output.

QZ seems pointless, what burst? Sword auto attack? Staff Autoattack?

Might as well run LR at that point.

what do you mean what burst? everything you do gets animated faster. so WH#4, sword, and staff spam timed with Smoke Assault. it’s better than having no quickness at all. the build is already extremely defensive so running LR is pointless.

Eleazar.9478:

It’s like a bad sb, honestly I hate the traits stances and weapon skills of soul beast they all are boring and pretty cut and dry . However the soupbeats interactions wit core ranger and the pet skills is strait amazing

i actually found shortbow to be very underwhelming. with all the projectile hate in PoF, it’s going to be an entirely useless weapon. MH dagger has some cleave, which I like.

Wondrouswall.7169:

At the very least, the auto attack chain should be as equally fluid and quick as the Thief/Necro dagger auto attacks.

i think youre confusing fluidity with speed. MH dagger feels pretty fluid to me. if anything increasing speed might be good, but overall it felt pretty good. we have so much quickness.

terrorshard.3854:

I really can’t justify subbing in WS for BM…I feel like you are giving up so much just to get a tiny bit more condition removal.

you get a ton more condi removal. TU interacts really nicely with Soften the Fall, so you never have to slot MT. Lesser MT just allows you to bunker a lot better. you get more prot, and more vigor. QZ increases our burst quite a bit.

BM does next to nothing for our damage output.

did they buff MH dagger compared to what you guys were talking about before? I dont find it sluggish at all, albeit your damage is dependent on landing the #3 for the quickness. with a few slashes + quickness, you’re doing ~3k dps with rabid gear.

3 usable abilities: a close-range interrupting cleave, a very nice i-frame, and the f3. has a nice flow to it.

(for pvp).

even though PoF is around the corner, I’d just like to note that build variety is probably the lowest it’s ever been. there are a handful of specs that completely stomp their intraclass alternatives. a simple example is the druid/ranger. playing anything other than Minstrel is pretty bad in comparison, at least at a higher level. there are no viable condi ranger specs, period.

it’s just a repeating pattern with this game. if your playstyle does not fit the meta build, too bad so sad. i hope PoF breaks this mould, so that I can at least alternate between Soulbeast and Druid. I don’t even care about fixing core any more.

DH is completely deleted by a glassbow ranger/druid with signet of the hunt. said ranger spec is harder to play, but if u want a hard counter, there it is.

good stuff. as i thought, Worldly Leap + Maul combo is hella strong with quickness.

Sartharina.3542:

Levetty.1279:

The damage increase from Sic’em is one of the best things about Soulbeast, why would you want to remove it? Theres already enough condi utilities, this is our only power one. I agree about making it work like the Warrior shout though.

Because Rangers are so used to having terrible damage for so long, that when it reaches "Almost competent’ levels, they get scared of it.

16k+ mauls are stupid. Sic Em is getting nerfed 100%. I’d prefer if the damage bonus was lower in exchange for more utility.

I think it’s quite generous that the Soulbeast in beastmode counts as an animal in the first place, and benefits from the BM tree.

Exedore.6320:

The biggest problem with soulbeast is how you had to exit beastmode, swap pets, then wait on the beastmode cooldown to re-enter. I’m guessing they’re worried people would just spam pet abilities back-to-back after a swap.

exactly. pet swap in beastmode would open up a whole new can of worms. from a balancing perspective, it’s nonsensical to me.

really good feedback, sounds reasonable and I agree with all of it (in the OP anyway).

on a side note, I generally take zero stock in any “feedback” threads posted on these forums, especially as they relate to pvp. I never had problems reaching and competing at the highest mmr, even on core ranger before HoT when whining was at its worst. and I did it with non-meta builds. Druid was top dog for two years, and still whining persisted. I can count on one hand how many players’ opinions I respected two years ago, and now I don’t even recognize anyone.

the other thing I’ve observed is that too many people demand big, sweeping changes or total revamps of weapons, traits and utilities. This is completely unreasonable.

so to all the newer players reading “feedback” threads, take everything (especially whining and complaining) with a grain of salt. feedback is important for sure, but judging things too early and without proper understanding has been the key feature of the ranger subforum.

NemesiS.6749:

Still the ranger wont have much aoe

really? Maul, Worldly Impact, and Path of Scars isn’t enough aoe damage? they’re all low cooldown and unblockable with the right spec. you can deliver all 3 in about a second with quickness.

I watched 20 seconds of this, and I don’t need to watch any more. as I suspected, LB power Soulbeast will be absolutely kittening insane. I’d play Soulbeast just for them Worldly Impact bombs. good job. cant wait for PoF.

axes have never been viable in pvp (outside of MH axe on condi builds), and they just need to be revamped. they’ve been steadily buffing them over the months/years, but as you said they lack evades and mobility. Torch and sword are pretty garbage as well, but sword can work ok with WH. the main problem with ranger has always been garbage weapons. I’m holding judgement on MH dagger, as they will have to tweak it. OH dagger is quite good on condi builds, but dagger 5 needs ammo.

^ that sounds really good

SB has a ton of condi cleanse, we don’t even need WK any longer.

lol this is cute. didn’t know this game still had a competitive pvp following.

I’m really glad weaver is mediocre/garbage. I really wouldn’t be able to stand another d/d cele era. I have ptsd from the first time.

Crapgame.6519:

Hard to give feedback while in demo mode. The only good news is that they released everyone at the same time. Last time, as we all know, the Druid was last and suffered. Lots of quick changes and hot fixes.

Personally I am tired of masteries. The new stuff with our class isn’t bad but it also has not made me say ohhh, take my money. I think that is what I find rather interesting this go around. Mount isn’t going to do that much for me. It won’t be allowed more or less in WvW. I don’t see a WvW overhaul. I didn’t notice any new animations. I’m honestly wondering what would make me say:

“kitten , that was fun”.

I’ve just not seen it this time.

what are you rambling about man? you sound depressed. Druid was completely broken OP on release. we could aoe daze people for 6 seconds, spam blinds, and generate perma avatar.

This is really interesting. Curious to see if Predator’s Cunning will be effective.

these are all wonderful. love the visuals of the Cheetah and Sand Lion.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

mistsim.2748:

Wondrouswall.7169:

mistsim.2748:

Aomine.5012:

Dagger is ok, but I think Beast F3 cast time is so long that it breaks the fluidity completely, considering you’re ROOTED in ground when you use those skills.

we’re rooted while casting the F3’s? what a disaster.

Only one that roots is Worldly Impact. The other 4 can be used on the go.

phew, that’s sounds better. the cast-time on Worldly Impact didn’t seem to bad in one of the earlier clips tbh. and quickness would make it relatively unnoticeable. it being a leap finisher is a bit silly imo, should be blast.

And you can use Beastly Warden to make sure you land it. Combine that with Remorseless and Live Fast and hope the Live Fast applies immediately upon skill use and the Remorseless triggers before the cast time is up.

Wait, Beastly Warden triggers on our F1-F3? o.O

a self-40% damage buff with Sic Em – this is NOT gonna last, so don’t get too used to it. I can already predict the tears.

FrouFrou.4958:

AegisFLCL.7623:

So whats everyone estimate on shouts applying to you being nerfed.

I don’t see devs allowing Sic’ Em for very long.

I was 1 hitting people with booned Gazelle and using Sic ’em. Nerf incoming :x

you can count on that. while other specs can remain broken for months, we are generally not allowed to have fun like that.

Wondrouswall.7169:

mistsim.2748:

Aomine.5012:

Dagger is ok, but I think Beast F3 cast time is so long that it breaks the fluidity completely, considering you’re ROOTED in ground when you use those skills.

we’re rooted while casting the F3’s? what a disaster.

Only one that roots is Worldly Impact. The other 4 can be used on the go.

phew, that’s sounds better. the cast-time on Worldly Impact didn’t seem to bad in one of the earlier clips tbh. and quickness would make it relatively unnoticeable. it being a leap finisher is a bit silly imo, should be blast.

Aomine.5012:

Dagger is ok, but I think Beast F3 cast time is so long that it breaks the fluidity completely, considering you’re ROOTED in ground when you use those skills.

we’re rooted while casting the F3’s? what a disaster.

some great discussion here, didn’t read through all of it yet.

first impression: not a big deal, and I didn’t expect it anyway. There’s already so much going on when you enter Beastmode anyway. Adding the pet swap mechanic on top would have been overly complex.

We still get to equip two pets, and swap them out of Beastmode correct? This is all I care about.

Khenzy.9348:

Anything that throws condis at you destroys you with that build. Condi reapers, condi mesmers, burn guards (yep), and condi thieves. Switch NM to WS. Bear Stance and SoR are not going to save you. Using a bear or other crap pets just to get condi cleansing in BeastM is not worth it imo.

I likely wont be running any of these builds, as they’re not final. Just wanted to get us started with something. and in the end, I’m not even sure any of this will work when compared to the power creep of other e-specs. but i’ll tell you from experience, the key to killing high-dps condi specs has always been overwhelming offense and I-frames/blocks, which are good against all specs that rely on animations to apply damage. going too defensive against attrition specs has not worked out for me in the past. for example, the ranger condi bunker always struggled just enough to never be meta because it couldn’t apply enough damage to attrition specs.

so yes, WS for sure, but not for WK. the second build seems fine with Bear Stance, Evasive Purity, SoR, Second Skin, and what seems to be a huge amount of I-frames. With all the condi cleansing options available, I will likely never run WK on the Soulbeast so I can pick up Poison Master instead. again, this is all in my head. thx for the thoughts…

AEFA.9035:

While it does look good on paper and looks cool aesthetic wise, you won’t be running SB with D/D. Any condition that Dagger off hand gives (besides cripple) Dagger main can dish out in seconds.

as Heim said, the OH dagger is mostly for the amazing evade ability. it applies quite a bit of bleed and poison, which makes it more appropriate for this build than torch.

AEFA.9035:

almost perma protection if you take Nature Magic on the line too. You can be either condi or power. Lots of choices coming up looking forward to it.

maybe. I’m reserved about builds that revolve around a boon with all the boon hate that is coming with PoF.

are you thinking for PoF, or now? in the current meta, this just doesnt have enough damage output. Mender’s LB/Staff druid is incredibly strong, and way better than any other specs we have.

there are some crazy power builds we’ll have at our disposal. Worldly Leap and Call Lightning seems to do some hefty damage. we have a ton of invuln, boons and condi clears at our disposal, which means we’ll likely be able to build zerker/marauder, among other things.

the build I’m most excited about though is my old Remorseless Valkyrie greatsword build. you can go valk/cavalier with Marks/Soul/x, and just slam people with unblockable 230% crit damage plus 25% Remorseless bonus. This would likely be a signet build, because Brutish Seals give us fury now. So you can go Tiger for Ferocious and easy fury procs, and any Stout pet for invuln and Unflinching Fortitude.

but yes, SLB seems ideal for cele-type stats. All this will heavily depend on how we interact with other OP/meta builds.

I loved WoW’s druid, some of the best gaming memories of my youth. I always played the Boomkin, even when it was utter trash. kind of reminds me of playing core ranger in GW2 prior to the druid lol. I’m either a masochist, or I just love nature-themed archetypes.

anyway, i was super bummed they didnt release the druid with D3’s redundant necro expansion. so the Soulbeast will have to do. honestly, buffing yourself with your pet’s soul is the next best thing to shapeshifting. i’ll take it. plus I really like GW2’s direction since MO took over, and since Irenio was put in charge of the prof.

jcbroe.4329:

Should we be considering how the pet performs outside of Beastmode as an integral part of the build, or are we hoping we have enough personal DPS regardless to alleviate it?

Also, do we actually know for sure that pet swapping is available to the Soulbeast? I’m not saying it doesn’t appear that way, but the footage we have didn’t actually confirm whether Beastmode is a mechanic placed on top of core ranger, or whether it replaces pet swapping, afaik, but would need info on this if we have it.

Follow up to that is; assuming pet swapping, does Soulbeast cooldown interact with the pet swap cooldown, or are they separate? Pet choices might vary if you end up getting “stuck” with 1 pet for a longer period of time than we’re anticipating.

they way I understand it: the pet-swapping mechanic is available outside of Beastmode. When you swap you commit to the pet when you go into Beastmode. I don’t think going into Beastmode counts as pet swapping.

edit: I think I see your concern – that we will be able to have only one pet? I imagine we should still be able to loadout two pets…that’s how I’ve been planning my builds. perhaps assuming too quickly.

It will be important to go outside of BM to get the benefits of entering BM, such as Unstoppable Union. and to die in BM for Eternal Bond.

how we select pets for activities outside of BM won’t be different from what we do now – you select the pet with the best F2, damage application, and CC. But I feel it will be much more important to maximize the archetype perks and F1-F3 skills.

just use Kiri’s: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/vid-Druid-Roaming-vol7/first#post6695678

and look at the brief discussion after. I think Lb/staff druid is most powerful (based on what I’ve seen in wvw since I came back to the game), for many reasons. main one being the huge amount of on-demand stealth. I haven’t been able to theorycraft anything that compares in terms of damage and versatility.

you can also try GW Fox’s build here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEk1yOo91Aw …but it’s more for fun. I don’t think it has as much versatility as LB/staff

now regarding the changes, they don’t do much for dueling builds imo. the changes will be more useful for the Soulbeast, and you can run a glass zerging build with unblockable berserker Lead the Wind LB + SoH.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

56s Swiftness, Fury, 20s 3xMight, 30s 3xMight, 6s Resistance/Prot, 12s Retaliation and 6 × 12s Stab with no concentration at all Then throw in Fresh Reinforcement!

kitten , now we’re just begging to get smashed by the Spellbreaker =P

nice, i didnt think of unblockable traps. and Soul will give us the survivability we never had from our utilities. traps maybe more viable as a result?

Levetty.1279:

If Swoop is OP then why isn’t GS OP?

because it takes up an entire weapon slot. this is just an ability you can have on top of a full loadout. you can build a bunker Soulbeast with Swoop to disengage if you want, for example.

Aomine.5012:

Until Anet nerf it to the ground like they did to Druid back when HoT launch lolz..

what the hell are you talking about? you realize druid remains in the pvp A tier as we speak? the minstrel druid is in the B tier as support in wvw. druid has been one of the strongest picks in pvp for two years now, and all the adjustments it received were necessary due to how broken it was.

Sevans.4619:

I’m not quite as optimistic as Mistsim here, but the guy has been playing Ranger and posting in these very forums for at least four years; I find it funny that he’s being accused of being new to the class because he sees merit in the elite spec.

Soulbeast will have its place, I’m sure.

appreciate this. I don’t necessarily enjoy saying that I’ve put out multiple well received guides and clips under my main Ikiro, or played at the top mmr for years, and did gvg with some of the top guilds in the game (not on the ranger). it’s all good though, maybe I’ve gotten bad. I just feel the rangers forums are especially dominated by a handful of really negative, doomsaying, out of touch players with questionable experience in pvp… I don’t have to point fingers here. and I appreciate the pessimist as well, as long as you’re reasoning your thoughts, and are backed up with experience like Jcbroe and a few others here.

in the end, it doesnt matter. the forums are here for everyone to express their concerns or praises, just dont be rude while doing so.

so I’m not trying to white-knight anything, I’m just optimistic and excited by the possible builds (and I’ve been posting a lot because I’m stressed about exams atm). I have also made it clear that I have almost complete faith in Irenio because I’ve enjoyed his consistent work since the druid was announced. and I see Soulbeast delivering on many levels.

i was gonna say blocks are the biggest problem currently, and Unstoppable Union takes care of that. not as much projectile hate as there are blocks.

D/A for a power build, for sure. wanted to do a poison/bleed themed build.

yes, getting those flank bonuses on SB is super easy. give it a shot. the immob is so good.

LughLongArm.5460:

Like you, I always liked SB and it was my primary weapon pre-Hot.
I thinking to make a build with WS over NM, but It is yet to be seen how traits like refined toxins and poison master will work in beastmode. The dagger trait and WK also an option. Tons of testing to do.

yeah WS looks good as well, perhaps better. Poison Master would give a lot more damage, expertise training would enhance the hawk, and Companion’s Defense with all that endurance would give the prot. and Rugged Growth and Second Skin would synergize with it. could go brown bear for Spiritual Reprieve if condis are an issue.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJA1oC9rAXLEoEKOaP8EvDgSNnPR3XTF-TJRAABA8QA84CAsfZAv2fAA

I’ve always wanted to play a duelist type build centering on the SB. This is my first attempt, join me for some theorycrafting if u want.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJA1oC9rAXLE6EKvvDgCn/16+uPR3VTF-TJRAABecBA8a/h9LDAwDBAA

SLB Stuff:
- dagger MH, Bear Stance, Griffon Stance, and Vulture Stance
- Unstoppable Union for stunbreak, Second Skin/Predator’s Cunning, Eternal Bond

- two invulns from the brown bear, swoop from the hawk to disengage
- huge poison/bleed damage
- Bear Stance, SoR, Evasive Purity, and Second Skin for condis.
- SS can be changed to Predator’s Cunning…just not sure if it’s any good in practice. Poison Volley would heal for 850, which isn’t terrible especially when combined with MH dagger spam.
- lots and lots of I-frames. Can add energy sigils for more, but likely unnecessary
- the missing vit and toughness from the build is sort of ameliorated by the Stout pet category while in beastmode

Probably lots to improve on, and I’ve no idea how it will work out in the end. But I cant see anything huge missing. I think it can go A LOT tankier than this, or more damage…but this seems to be a decent balance.

SB looks really fun and strong with this build, I’m pretty giddy about it. Finally a reason to use LoYF. D/D combo seems to be strong. tons of condi pressure, a good I-frame, and mobility. This feels like a true kittening ranger.

edit: better variant with Poison Master and WS. More damage and prot synergy.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJA1oC9rAXLEoEKOaP8EvDgSNnPR3XTF-TJRAABA8QA84CAsfZAv2fAA

I guess I’m just not seeing your point. if you want trait synergy for F1-F3, just take the BM line for reduced pet ability cooldowns (Pack Alpha). the SLB train line fills in the other gaps of the core ranger, such as unblockable attacks. in other words, we already have traits that synergize with the new e-spec mechanic, but theyre in vanilla.

I just think you and a few others are vastly underestimating our F1-F3 abilities. all of the F3’s are quite powerful, and many F2’s are OP…such as Defy Pain, Swoop, and a few others. You need to play around with the different pet combinations.

also, take a closer look at our stances. 3 are very powerful, and 2 are niche. there is a ton of synergy with our weapons.

lastly, you’re being completely biased and not looking at the weaknesses of the other e-specs (I’ve read all the posted trait lines).

that would be pretty cool.

Aomine.5012:

Just go watch the animation of Spellbraker, Renegate and so on and you’d know what I mean.

this is just a matter of personal preference. I feel the Spellbreaker’s animations are mostly trash (as in unappealing, not low quality), other than the elite which looks stunning. Renegade, same thing. SB skills look fun, but the utilities I hate so much. I actually feel SLB has some of the better animations. Dagger looks great, Wordly Leap and Call Lightning are quite impressive to me. aaaand I happen to like the aura.

my 2c: I feel people are being a bit too harsh, possibly due to past traumas of ranger abuse by old devs. I feel ya. I see nothing but potential and a large variety of effective builds. For once, most traits look competitive and choosing will be more difficult.

Aomine.5012:

Spellbreaker specialize in removing all your boons (including quickness) and gain lots of quickness himself out of it.

not all your boons. he has to actually land his skills, and we can always reapply boons. in addition, look a Griffon Stance. how will a SB hit me if I’m chaining my invuln frames? sure, we’ll have to play around the elite, but it has a hefty CD. but the endurance regen bonus is not a boon.

Firebrand’s perma-quickness for the team will come at a price. this is more of a support e-spec, whereas the SLB is more of a duelist with a bit of support, as rangers tend to be.

I guess I’m just not seeing what you guys are seeing. I felt the same about the druid when everyone was crying about other better e-specs.