Guild Wars 2

Sabull.5670:

Anyway, I’ll just repeat so there is no confusion for the slowest kittens. Yeah damage only situation, with glass no arcane spec, use dat fire. It’s no controversy.
But frankly I hope that the content Anet provides stays/gets/is dynamic enough and complicated enough that you want to bring more than just damage.

This. I don’t see the point with playing this certain type of spec and thus removing 3/4 of other potential contribution to the field. If you want to focus single target (ranged) dps, there are better choices for that (mesmer, warrior, even rangers dish out pretty good dmg from 1500 range with LB). Other than that, I don’t even understand why you so much want to focus on single target when AoE is obviously better in WvW (and I got the impression that’s what you play mostly).

I tried a 30/30/0/10/0 in mist on a heavy golem, using my regular burst rotation with water #2, earth #2, Air minor trait on swap, Air #2. I used arcana power to ensure crits.

Then I tried killing it with fire. I made sure I had 6 stacks of might first (since I picked that trait over the 30% longer duration on fire fields). 6-7stacks was what I could keep up normally from just using fire spells. I also tried with Meteor Shower, but it wasn’t effective against just one target since you will land either 0 or 3-4 hits over a pretty long duration. I tried both with 3,2,1,1,1 and just 2,1,1,1… even 5,2,3,1,1,1… Always with Arcana Power of course.

To be honest, my regular burst rotation needed less hits (this includes the ticks from lava font) to kill the target than Fire rotation (3,2,1,1,1 rotation or 2,1,1,1,1). What can be said against it is that in the first scenario the burst took a bit longer time to proc, but overall damage was a bit better. It also requires that all the skills will land, but this can be used as an argument against fire as well. Only problem is that with no points in Arcana, it will take much longer to get back to fire after the burst is done.

It’s of course obvious that if you go full zerker gear and full dps talent (power/crit chance/crit dmg), then of course the dps will be much higher since you have maxed stats there. But it comes to a point where you ask yourself what you’ve sacrificed by getting there and that’s my main issue with the 30/30/x/x/x builds. If you don’t really care, then go ahead.. But personally I feel that what I sacrifice in sustainability and efficiency doesn’t justify what I will gain from a 30/30/x/x/x build.

With my current build I have 50% crit chance and 80% crit damage, but I also have much higher HP and armor than a full zerker. I dish out pretty nice damage still, some 4-5k from certain spells. For my own taste it’s plenty of damage compared to what I gain from other stats and talents.

You mean for the 4th skill?

In PvP/WvW, Lightning flash is almost mandatory for me, since it works both as a stun breaker and “get away” skill. Mist form has incredibly long CD to cover that purpose entirely. In PvE though Lightning flash can be replaced by something else. I don’t know what purpose frost bow would serve compared to Lightning flash that would be better?

saiyr.3071:

paleeshi.1924:

Thrashbarg.9820:

There are a couple things to consider when using a build in spvp and trying to apply it to wvw, well more than a couple, but anyway….

Full zerker gear in wvw has NO vitality added, unlike the amulet, so you’ll have even less HP.

Damage (that you will take) is higher in wvw than spvp. Backstabs and kill shots will insta-down you. None of your skills will insta-down anyone. Many other profession’s skills have been nerfed in spvp to reduce their damage as well, prepare to 3 shot yourself on confusion stacks.

I’m well aware of that. However, the PvE build I’ve made is far more better than the PvP one. With food I’ve calculated having 15300 health, 2220 armor, 50% crit chance and 96% crit damage. This gives me both higher defense and damage compared to sPvP. I’ll see how well it works in WvW and I also want to try staff dps build inside dungeons/fractals to see how far I’ll be able to push it without dying all too much.

What’s your power/attack? I’d like to know your setup there.

Here it is.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|6.1g.h4|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|311.0.211.0.2v.0.211.0.2v.0.2v.0|0.p6a.0.p65.k58|3l.7|1l.1v.1q.1u.28|e

1873 power. Food gives mainly precision/vitality, you could use other food for more power/less precision. But since I’m using bloodlust, it’s additional 250 power at max stack.

Though I’ve decided for a slightly different gear set up :P

I think there are many factors in place in calculating the total damage output, all dependent on your runes and traits, therefore the result can be a bit different.

For example, at the moment I’m running a more offensive dps staff build. 0/25/0/25/20. The key traits here are:
Air – VI: 20% more damage to foes with less hp than 33% , X: 10% more damage in Air, Minor trait: Electric Discharge (deals damage on swap to air).
Water – VI – Deals 10% more damage to foes when your health is above 90%, Minor trait: Bountiful power (gives 2% more damage per boon).
On top of this I run with 6x runes of scholar which gives additional 10% to your damage when health is above 90%, so total 20% with the water trait.

I have considered 10 points in Fire for Internal Fire trait (10% more damage in fire), but I moved those to water for extra 2% per boon.

Why I play it
I mainly play PvE and some WvW with my Ele, mostly dungeons and fractals or meta events. This means that mostly I play in longer fights against bosses, hence the 20% more damage from Air trait gets pretty handy. (I also want to note that I swap weapons and traits constantly depending on situation). Even in WvW it’s pretty useful, where I run with bigger or smaller groups.

How I play it
This rotation works pretty well against bosses and mobs since they are more static than players. This is how I rotate for “burst”. I’ve recently started using Arcane Power since it will ensure that my high damage skills will land as critical. So..
Arcane Power
Water#2 -> Earth #2 -> Air (Electric Discharge triggers) -> Air #2 -> Fire nuke 2,1,3, 5 till you are ready for rotation again.

The reasoning behind it
Ok, first of all, I haven’t calculated all the damage done in a certain matter of time while doing this combo, compared to just staying in fire, and I probably never will. So why do I swap like this? First off, I want to hit with all my hard hitting skills. Swapping also gives boons (through Arcana-V trait), which adds more total damage.

Also, despite that I’ve play offensive, almost always when I swap attunement, I end up using more than just my DPS spells, cause there’s usually some need for CC or heals, therefore I always find it more beneficial to swap.

Reason why I go water, earth, air, fire or fire, water, earth, air, is because if I’m gonna lock myself out of fire, I’d rather stay in Air which is the 2nd best dps tree. (Hence 10% more damage in air trait). However, duo to constant need of using CC and heals, the lock out is usually rather short. Also, I wanna point out that if you’re just using one skills in one attunement, say earth #2, it’s always good to attunement swap while channeling the skill and thus lower the total CD on attunements.

Conclusion
I don’t know if this rotation will bring a higher DPS over time than just staying in Fire (I’ll never be kitten to calculate it, sorry), but I feel it’s way more beneficial to rotate duo to more boons, better sustain, better support (there’s nothing wrong with giving a bit of support while still playing a DPS roll), and access to higher damage skills.

The overall sustain given to yourself (helps me keep myself at 90%>health for more damage) and people all around you will indirectly affect the total damage output of yourself and them. Hence I think it’s extremely hard to calculate what is more effective (staying in fire or swap). If you gonna look just at your damage numbers purely, it might show you one thing, but in reality it’s just too many factors that affects the total result.

^Cause completely different play styles?

Thrashbarg.9820:

There are a couple things to consider when using a build in spvp and trying to apply it to wvw, well more than a couple, but anyway….

Full zerker gear in wvw has NO vitality added, unlike the amulet, so you’ll have even less HP.

Damage (that you will take) is higher in wvw than spvp. Backstabs and kill shots will insta-down you. None of your skills will insta-down anyone. Many other profession’s skills have been nerfed in spvp to reduce their damage as well, prepare to 3 shot yourself on confusion stacks.

I’m well aware of that. However, the PvE build I’ve made is far more better than the PvP one. With food I’ve calculated having 15300 health, 2220 armor, 50% crit chance and 96% crit damage. This gives me both higher defense and damage compared to sPvP. I’ll see how well it works in WvW and I also want to try staff dps build inside dungeons/fractals to see how far I’ll be able to push it without dying all too much.

This is not WoW.
It will never be WoW.
Stop comparing this game to WoW.

We had a guy in the guild who everyday complained about GW2, about how this and that was so much better in WoW. How GW2 should learn all this from WoW.

What I don’t understand with this kind of mentality, is why on earth (!!!!!) do you not just go and play your kitten WoW?

So I’ve played my staff build for half a 3-4 hours, using 0/25/10/15/20 set up with zerker amulet and jewel, divinity runes and sigil of battle. Here are some conclusions:

I found it pretty easy to play to be honest. sPvp is a pretty selfish game where people simply want to get the most score. So did the staff zerker build make it more difficult for me to achieve this goal compared to my old bunker D/D build? Not really… The result was about the same. The play style was however completely different. And that’s the biggest difference between playing D/D compared to staff in pvp.

For example, you wouldn’t rush into a group of 2-3 as you might have with a d/d build. However, where the fights were going group vs group, for example in graveyard, say 4v4, I had no problem staying in the middle of it. Did I die a lot? Not really.. 1-3 times per match, depending on the situation. I had no issues escaping enemies, although this wasn’t as easy as with D/D.

For 1v1, I can say, that staff is definitely not made for it. However it’s not impossible. Against tanky builds it’s fairly easy, with CC and the sustainability you gain from water/earth through traits/skills you shouldn’t die. Against zerker specs you probably have a bigger chance to win as well as the highest chance to lose.

My final thoughts are that.. staff is completely viable in spvp and small scale pvp. I won’t say anything about tpvp since that is entirely depends on strategy and team set up. What I liked most about it is the constant pressure you put on enemies in group fights with AoE, as well as CC, while your team mates focus more single targets. You could argue that D/D can achieve this as well, but I’d say not to the same extent as with staff.

Reason why I went for a zerker rather than supportive/tanky (I tried that too) staff build is because I found no reason to do so. The pressure from AoE damage with zerker is much more beneficial than just throwing in heals and fields for your team mates, since you can still do that even with a zerker spec. The only reason for a tankier build is that you would be afraid to die faster (as I was in the beginning), but I honestly didn’t find it much of a problem. Other than that, I really enjoyed this game play and will probably continue running it for a while. Might try zerker d/d later on.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I still find a few things with staff being annoying, such as projectile speed. But in the end when you are discussing viability in pvp, I think it’s important to be aware of what goals you are trying to achieve.

My latest set.

Crossplay.2067:

But that’s the beauty of it! As long as enemies aren’t close enough to the combo field, they won’t take damage from combos. I have yet to meet anyone whom actively tries to get in one unless they are taking advantage of the 5 target limit. Even if, by some miracle, anet decides to remove that, it would only be a great thing! If zergs could be taken down by one combo crazy staff ele then it would drastically shake up the meta. There would be less mindless zerging and more tactical strikes! WvW would actually be INTERESTING!

The things it.. They can’t put it just on staff, unless they put as a staff trait only… But all the other on attunement swap traits are not weapon specific, so… Because then D/D else would also benefit from the combo/finisher on attunement swap, and they have a much closer range.

The reason why I made this post is since so many people complain that staff eles are not viable in sPvP. Even more people complain that zerker eles are unplayable because they get one shot.

I’ve been D/D ele since day one (though last couple of months I’ve been using staff equally as much). I’ve played a tanky build since I generally hate playing zerker builds duo to squishyness. Maybe this is partially why I’ve been afraid of rolling a zerker Ele. But since I’ve grew tired of the regular D/D pvp build, I decided to play the complete opposite.

I was surprised….

The damage output is pretty decent.. I know my numbers aren’t close to a thieves, but constant 2k crits are enough for me.
I do stay on the range all the times, which gives me a good advantage against melee.
I have no problem of getting away/survive if I get ganked. CC, heal, protection and regeneration on attunement swap, worst case scenario I use cantrips.
In a full match I die maybe.. twice tops. That’s not much different from when play D/D ele.

Here’s one attachment from one of the matches. I know it doesn’t generalize the whole spvp game, but that was my 3rd match out of 10 this morning. In the other games I usually ended up in the top 3 somewhere.

Atm, I’m looking forward to build myself a zerker Staff build for WvW. It seems it’s not even close as bad as people might have told.

Cheers, Lux Domina.

:)

eldain stenlund.4306:

I think i finally found why you DD players are so scared of staff getting options.

Perhaps they make so staff can troll groups to boredome also.
“HERETIC, only DD should be allowed to do that” <—— i said it for you.

When you start seeing and reading things as a conspiracy… That should be your wake up call.

swinsk.6410:

Ok. I know D/P can hit hard but you have to trait for it and build around it.

Yishis has traited and built around defense. This particular build, while great at staying alive does not do nearly as much dps as other builds.

I am running his build and I know. Even with 25 bloodlust and 10% crit food my back stand hit for 5-6k. I have back stabbed something in the face no crit for 700.

The advantage this build has is not dps. It’s the ability to constantly apply pressure and stay in the fight. If you want more dps you lose some survivability…

For me 5-6k in relation to the survivability it has, is pretty high. I’m saying this though as a none thief player who usually runs tankish damage builds. I dont know what thieves normally hits for, but i’ve always prefered builds where i can outlast while not losing too much dps, rather than going full zerker.

Lol thats pretty funny. Though it makes sense. Now i’m trying come up with other projectile skills that could be used in a similar way. :-P

Fortus.6175:

covenn.7165:

What I don’t understand is why you keep making posts complaining about the same thing over and over again, then get angry and mad anytime someone has a different opinion that you. If you make a post on a forum, you have to accept varying opinions. What you are doing now is basically just spam.

My biggest suggestion to you, and one I have made several times already is this: Instead of trying to make the staff work the way *you* want it to and comparing it to other game, learn to use it the way it is as designed in this game. The entire elementalist class itself is designed around switching between damage, support, and cc so you never get stuck doing a single thing. The staff, as a weapon choice, is no different.

To be quite honest with you, it seems like you rolled a class without researching it first and are unhappy with how it plays. Me? I love the flexibility and the ability to adapt easily to any and all situations. Yes I (*gasp*) use D/D solo or in havoc ....but I also use staff just as much, if not more because it is the more effective weapon in big fights by far.

covenn, the only ones I eer see agaisnt the staff being a viable weapon are you and lavadiel, everyone else is aware that staff is in a bad spot, saying otherwise is a lie, i mean, when was the last time you saw someone with staff in 5v5 tPvP and you said "better be careful here", even then, tell me how many times do you eve see staff players on high lvl sPvP? The only time you ever see a staff user is either WvW sieges or someone trying out staff and failing miserably.

It is a fact, D/D is the prevalent weapon, and not neccesarily by choice. For a caster class who is supposed to "burst foes before they even reach you, with the backflip that they have the lowest stats in the game" we sure lack the offensive skills, which once again, forces us into water/arcana, which....guess again, forces you to eithe rply D/D (because benefices the most out of it) or support staff because you dont have a choice.

Staff is not ok, the day i see people playing staff and D/D equally and people fear me as much as they fear me on D/D it is the day staff will be ok. Staff damage is ok, whats wrong is how unreliabl it is, it literary requieres you to have the enemy AFK in order to land something, a quick fix is increasing projectile’s speed, reduce casting times and delays on skills, instant AOE damage, remove the self-root on water#5 and fire #5 and increase hitting box for air #3. At leas 70% of those things have to happen, otherwise that weapon will remain useless outside WVW raids.

How many time must people repeat that every weapon has its place. Just becauae its less suitable in spvp, does it make it bad weapon? No, just not the right one for the job. You also seem to forget that almost every class has one- two meta builds in spvp. Does it make everything else not viable outside that zone? Hardly.

Also nobody is saying that staff shouldnt be improved. What people are saying is that its not as bad as OP and other people claim it to be

Crossplay.2067:

Personally I think the problem with the staff is being forced to swap attunements to maximize its potential. The way I see it, every attunement should have fields AND finishers! In this way, the cast times for finishers can be lowered substantially and eles will still be combo crazy! It also would promote more builds as staying in one element most of the time wouldn’t be detrimental. Plus enemies would take staff eles a lot more seriously if they could spam finishers in fields. Auto-attacks are projectiles already. They should be finishers. I really see no point in having the downside of projectiles (they can be reflected) without the good side of combos.

Also, imagine arcane wave being turned into a mantra and then having the charges spammed in a fire field. Due to its speed and auto-crit, I can’t imagine any opponent wanting to get near that field. With such a mentality, it could also be used for defensive zoning and it would truly make staff wielders feel powerful.

Its not unique for staff, but all weapons have maximized effeciency with attunement swaping. Its not a problem, thats how the class was designed. Although i like your idea with fields and finnishers on swap, maybe it could be added as a talent, but theres a chance for it to turn into a bit op.

He has Said it himself a few times though, somewhere in the other threads.

@Eldain

Well.. If you are looking for a single target ranged magical DPS and feel disappointed with how staff on Eles doesn’t fulfil such purpose, why do not roll, say... GS Mesmer? I think it comes much closer to what you are looking for. Why not play it instead?

Your main problem is that you expect a class to play a traditional roll. Staff, however, wasn’t designed in the way you wish it to be, so obviously Ele doesn’t play the same "traditional mage roll". GW2 doesn’t even have a traditional healer or tank class. I don’t see you complaining about that, yet it somehow upsets you that Eles aren’t playing the traditional mage roll.

What I’m trying to say is that GW2 doesn’t have the standard classes with their traditional rolls. And that isn’t going to change. They may buff Staff a bit (and it does need some buffs) but it will never become what you wish it to be, because it wasn’t designed that way. Yet I believe that a Staff dps build isn’t all horrible either, it’s just won’t be the same numbers as you get from playing thief or warrior or even mesmer.

So you have to find either a new class to play or a new game, because staff is what it is and Eles are what they are. Anet may buff them here and there, but the core of it will remain. If you cannot accept that.. I just don’t know you persist on playing something you are so disappointed with.

swinsk.6410:

You guys realize this build sacrifices a lot of dps for survivability?

I ran this build this morning for a few hours in spvp and wvw.

While it gives incredible init regen, defense, mobility. DPS suffers greatly.

I backstabbed some guy in spvp for 700 damage. No crit, he had protection up I think.

You are a cat without claws with this build.

I’m not sure how the DPS suffers? Looking at his build he has 2116 power, 63% Crit chance and 95% Crit damage with his gear and food (but no fury). It seems looks pretty high to me. On top of that he has a 2500 armor and 15k health and 350 healing power. That’s pretty decent I’d say.

In spvp the crit damage is capped around 60-ish or so, which makes a big difference from the regular open world. And you hit someone with protection, non-crit, probably a bunker build in sPvP.. That doesn’t set a standard.

Awesome video. I recently picked up my theif for WvW only, couldn’t decide on S/D or D/D.. But this D/P seems just incredibly OP. A mix of better survivability and high dps, good gap closer, so much blinds and stealth stacking (plus much easier to stealth than with CnD).. The build looks incredibly OP to me. I just hope I can get my theif to level 80 and play with it for a bit until (if) they decide to nerf it. It definitely feels a bit too strong, but also seems a lot of fun

eldain stenlund.4306:

Elemental have: Staff. Scepter. Dagger. Focus. 4 types.
Working types: i mean. realy working: Dagger/Dagger.

Warrior have: Sword. Hammer. Longbow. Axe. Greatsword. Mace. Rifle. Horn. Shield.
9 types.
Sword. heard from guild players, some realy heavy bleeding.
Hammer. high dmg + cc weapon.
Longbow. i see alot of warriors use this instead of rifle.
Axe. Realy good dmg on these. (what i use)
Legendary Greatsword. no explanation needed. we all know it.
Mace. dont see many people use this, other than with shield maybe.
Rifle. High single target dmg. Good burst if you land it. 8 k volley + 10k+ killshots.
Horn. Good to create more mobility. and support AoE.
Shield. CC + defense.
Working types: 8 of 9. (not counting rare mace).

So if warriors have more than 75 % working weapons.
why cant we have that also. or atleast 50 %.

All Ele’s weapon are useful, but every weapon is situational (build/situation dependent). The one that is less popular is probably scepter though. Same goes for other classes. Staff is still a much popular choice among Eles, so it’s false to say that it’s not working since so many Eles run with it.

I think the main reason Eles only have a limited amount of weapon choices, is because we have access to 20 skills per weapon set. So total amount of available skills is pretty high. If you look at Engineer, they do not either have weapon swap and only a couple weapons they can use (even less than Eles). But they have a tons of kits which gives them a high amount of skill sets.

Molch.2078:

Nobody said anything about sticking to one attunement. Its about using the most effective the most of the time. Why you need water when there is no need for heal? Why use Earth/Air when there is no need for cc?

Just because you have 20 Skills doesn’t mean you have to use them, when Fire 1 is more usefull.

How is fire 1 most useful? (I admit I didn’t read the 2nd build but I believe it was a hammer build, not a Fire build).

The OP never even said Fire was most useful, he/she posted an Earth attunement condition based build, where he wrote “spending 80% of the time” in one attuenment.

You don’t seem to have understood what I meant. If you play condition build with staff, then yes, you’ll be spending most of your time in Earth since thats where most of your condition damage comes from. But that makes about 3/4 of the staff and thus you will not use it to it’s full potential. Therefore I feel that a power based build works better with staff.

Earth, Water and Air is not only CC, heal and bleed, since they also have strong power based attacks. That is why you’d want to rotate through the other attunements, even if you just going to deal damage. I really don’t know where you get that Fire 1 is most useful.

The problem with sticking to one attunement is preventing you to use a weapon set to its fullest potential. It’s not wrong, but it’s not very optimal and there has yet to be a good argument to WHY you only should use one attunement. Other than it’s an easier gameplay, I cannot come up with any real good argument.

For example when I use staff, if I just need to nuke, and lets ignore all the CC and healing skills for a moment, I still rotate through all attunements for Water #2, Air #2 and Earth #2, spending rest of the time in fire.

Staff does also benefit more from direct damage than condition damage since you have very little condition based skills on it. Most comes from Earth, hence you’ll be mostly stuck in this attunement and thus gimping yourself.

Even if we ignore all this, using condition damage in dungeons is only effective to a certain point. (I’m not 100% sure but I’ve read that condition duration is lowered in dungeons). The issue arrives when you have several condition based players inside a dungeon. You’ll be competing with each about those bleed stack. And since you only can have 25 stacks of bleed, some of the DPS will be lost. And weakness from auto attack in Earth isn’t really much useful in PvE.

If you really want to play a condition build on Ele, I’d suggest going Scepter. To me it’s the only viable condition weapon set for Eles.

eldain stenlund.4306:

yes. iam also using fire mostly. (i like fire).
But iam here and there, rarely tho. using another element.

I can throw a healing rain when i do wvw over a group. trying to be nice.
or i can sometimes use the air nr5 stun circle..
Oh.. i have used water AoE slowing 1 – 2 times also. also just out of boredome.

but iam using dmg oriented geared. so my healing rain and stuff are kinda crap anyways.

using autoattack. lavafont and nr3 fire blast. thats about it.
nr4 when i see ppl coming. speed back abit and run like hell.
nr5 when we attack a keep. or guard it.

abit boring. but its the only way to keep some dmg up.

I think this whole post just explained why you hate the staff so much.
You just really don’t know how to play it. Proved it in your post.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Its my point from start. Staff is badly designed. (its a kitten mess).
(aswell as most traits).
they need to split the staff into 2 fields.

2 elements focus on direct single target dmg.
2 elements focus on AoE and support.

It whould give you as player more options and more variations on builds.

If you want to be an Elemental Wizard. focusing on dealing High single target dmg.
you should be able to have that option.

If you want to be an Elemental Merlin. focusing on Supporting, and AoE.
you should be able to have that option.

Right now, you dont have any option at all. its just a big mess.

Dude. This isn’t WoW or any other game. If you don’t like how the class is done, then don’t play it. Your biggest mistake is to compare it with a classic mage class.

The staff already has support, damage, aoe, CC, but accross the attunements.
How is your suggestion is making the Staff more viable with variations? All it does is to lock you into one-two attunements, and if you have to spec into them, then it will just limit the use of other attunements even further.

I can agree that staff may need a slight damage boost or make the projectiles cast faster, but that’’s about it.

Also, you say that AoE is so bad. How is an AoE attunement gonna remove the problem of player avoiding the AoE fields that you so much complain about? It won’t.

Arheundel.6451:

Donut.6914:

Staff is fine in 1vX situations, you just have to know how to use it. I killed 3 roamer Thieves in WvW today by myself with Staff. Sure it’s not as good as D/D in a melee 1vX situation, but it’s certainly not bad. I actually prefer Staff because it actually requires thinking. As a D/D Ele I can charge into a group of 10 players and just Mist Form+Heals if I get low on health, and then I can RTL out of there. Staff requires using the terrain around you. Find a chokepoint and throw all your AoEs in there and you’re bound to obliterate anything standing there.

People will just dodge through them and get to you in no time

I don’t know if it’s just me or do people not know how to CC people inside AoE fields? Also by putting up AoE fields, if people are automatically want to dodge them, makes them run out endurance faster and gives you more advantage.

Other than that, you don’t need you’re AoE to kill someone with staff. A strategic rotation through the attunements with their AoE fields and CC will put pressure on the target, giving you time to nuke it with single target spells in between.

The biggest different between D/D and Staff is that D/D makes you more mobile and allows you to reset the fights whenever you wish to. However it allows has a lot of “dead time” when you are not attacking your target, unlike the Staff which allows you to put constant pressure. It is true that you cannot handle as big amount of people as with daggers, but in 1v1 situations and small scale fights (say 4v4 or so), it’s still a workable tool.

P:S And I don’t know why the forum likes to post tripple of everything I write in one post. :S

@ Arheundel.6451:
“Yeah but warrior can switch to mele weapon from longbow/rifle…we can’t switch to d/d that’s why many requests should be considered reasonable.”

…Or they can choose to go 2 ranged weapons or 2 melee weapon.
The thing is that most melee glasses go melee and swap to range when range is needed. There is not really any situation when you must use a “melee weapon”, because ranged weapons CAN be used in melee range as well. However, a melee weapon CAN be more optimal than a ranged weapon because of it’s skill set and IF the situation allows you using melee form.

So.. in such case the issue isn’t that staff users are locked into ranged form (since you still can still attack from short range), but that D/D users are locked in short ranged. Though somehow no one is complaining about it as much as the other way around (not being able to swap from staff to daggers).

So.. in such case the issue isn’t that staff users are locked into ranged form (since you still can still attack from short range), but that D/D users are locked in short ranged. Though somehow no one is complaining about it as much as the other way around (not being able to swap from staff to daggers).That leads us to that people are just generally not satisfied with how the staff works (hence this thread was made). So what is it that makes people want to get out of staff into D/D? There are bascially only two things that I can say is better on D/D than on staff, and it’s mobilty and damage..

So.. in such case the issue isn’t that staff users are locked into ranged form (since you still can still attack from short range), but that D/D users are locked in short ranged. Though somehow no one is complaining about it as much as the other way around (not being able to swap from staff to daggers).That leads us to that people are just generally not satisfied with how the staff works (hence this thread was made). So what is it that makes people want to get out of staff into D/D? There are bascially only two things that I can say is better on D/D than on staff, and it’s mobilty and damage..Basically you want to have everything that D/D weapon has, that the staff will also have. That plus att the pros that the staff has. So people are just bascially wishing for a weapon that has everything and lacks nothing. However, it’s kinda of flawed argument that I’m sure many realizes and therefor many suggest weapon swap instead. Personally I feel weapon swap would make it eqaully OP, having access to 40 skills and all the pros of both weapons.

eldain stenlund.4306:

and a thief whould just jump in and 1 – 2 shot you.
your staff.. remember.

How is this even relevant to the argument? Staff doesn’t get you 1-shot, its your overall stats that is the problem then… And probably your slow reaction time as well.

If you are running a glassy cannon build, don’t blame the staff that you are getting killed in one hit. But then again, you’d be just as dead using D/D.

eldain stenlund.4306:

I have tried dagger/dagger. iam REALY against that specc.
A mage class should never be melee oriented.
And it is also a specc wich gives the mage just everything…

Why not? They aren’t the first with the idea. You could as well argue that warriors shouldn’t be ranged with rifle/longbow.

And i REALY hate such. 1 specc for everything ? dagger/dagger.

hell no ty.

Personally choice. Some are loving it. Personally I think the skill set up on D/D are more fun than on Staff.

And i also found that when i level up…
even staff is used as a melee weapon.. you have to just rush in and land your aoe.
you have to play bait to keep ppl or mobs IN the aoe…
I have to play Tank with lowest armor and hp… GOOD PLAN….realy brilliant.

Are you serious? You know anyone who has any sense will move away from AoE, has nothing to do with where you stand. Same goes for mobs, as soon as you hit them, they will come moving towards you (if solo). Did you expect that mobs/people will just stand there in one spot? If you want to hit with AoE, you gotta CC first or use single target spells. This is regular strategy for most MMOs.

*Increase HP to be atleast the same as Guardian.

Lol, guardians has same base hp as eles. :P

This class is just insanely horrible, unless you play dagger/dagger.

It’s isn’t. Not even with staff.

Fortus.6175:

welcome to everyone’s dilema, we are trying fir Anet to hear us, but until ppl dont stop playing D/d altogether and the stats for eles dont decrease, Anet will keep thinking eles are fine, after all, D/D ele is storng enough to be one of the top classes in the game, and one of the highest seen.

This is rather contradiction to what devs says themselves. On the contrarily, only playing D/D might be the only way to make them look into staff, since they have argued that they want to bring other weapons on pair with those most used. They have said themselves that they don’t want to have just one meta build for a class (any class), but make other builds/weapons just as strong.

Now, whether they are working on it or not, is hard to say. Balancing is rather tricky and take times. Maybe the changes are going too slow, but I am sure there will be some changes brought to staff sooner or later.

I think they key point with AoE in WvW is that you have one zerg versus an other. Meaning, even though yourself only hit 5 targets with one skill, say you have an other 19 eles hitting with Meteor Shower. Let’s pretend you they all hit 5 targets each, so the enemy zerg will receive a total of 100 hits with meteor shower. This is roughly speaking of course, but all together it’s a ton of damage still.

I don’t think AoE limit is something unusual in mmorpgs (at least not those I’ve played), though their numbers were slighly increased (around 8-14 targets/aoe). The only reason is that I have never really thought much about it in those games, cause there haven’t been the same zerg vs zerg gameplay.

I find Meteor Shower in general PvE play just horrible, and is best used in zerg cause the meteors are so randomly spread that you can only hope for 1-2 hits in pve if you’re lucky.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Can we stop bumping this thread? Been having a d/d build (not close as similar as this except probably the 30 on water) since first week of open beta. Back then I was one of the few eles that even used d/d for pvp. Now is annoying seeing if not all, most of the eles using only this weapon set and what’s worst using this exact build. It is a shame seeing so much dmg potential wasted because everyone is doing this bunky build dealing mediocre dmg even with blast finishers effects.

So… You don’t want people to use D/D or.. you just don’t think this build is good enough compared to yours?

How about you make an in-depth guide about your build (since you consider it to be better), let people be fair judges and then we can bump your thread instead..

Unless you of course don’t want people to know your build or want people to play D/D, then maybe… you shouldn’t leave comments like this.

I mean no offense, I’d really like to see what build you consider being a successful dps D/D/ build. But if you’re here just to blurt out how you were the pioneer among eles with D/D, ditching a good and detailed guide, without sharing what so good about your own build, it will just sound as someone being kitten for not getting any recognition.

Was a while back I was farming Orr, but though I’d start again.. I’m not really 100% how it works with all numbers and such, but.. What I’d like to know is how soon will be affecting me farming and how to prevent it as long as possible.
Basically I run between 3 different points in Orr (penitent, shelter, jofast). The first hour today I made roughly 4g worth in drops. After 1h it felt like I was gaining lot less loot, though maybe it was just a coincidence.

google.3709:

Deplorable turrets ( trait ) still uses old turrets, so if you have it on, flame turret will go back to its 40s cd, rifle turret will do 50% less damge and no cripple from thump!

As far as I’ve noticed, only the Flame CD is affected with Deployable turrets. Attack from rifle turret and rocket turret are same with and without the trait. Cripple is applied as well.

google.3709:

paleeshi.1924:

It must be some sort of bug though..

Btw, I just tested it! The smoke screen (from overcharge) lasts for 30 sec (same as CD) and not 5 as in description. Idk if it’s been like that before or if it’s a bug. During this time it doesn’t do any damage, just keeps the field up for 30 sec until the CD is off. So basically you have a blind field for 30 sec. :S Again, idk if it’s been like that, since I only played with it like… once. Kinda sick though.

you tried that in mist golems right ? :P it’s a proximity bug! it will stop doing that if the target dies, or moves away or closer! there is that sweet spot that keeps it up forever lol

You’re right =/

Vague.1602:

The patch notes also failed to mention that turrets now explode after 5 mins…

No, it’s in the notes… Twice.

It must be some sort of bug though..

Btw, I just tested it! The smoke screen (from overcharge) lasts for 30 sec (same as CD) and not 5 as in description. Idk if it’s been like that before or if it’s a bug. During this time it doesn’t do any damage, just keeps the field up for 30 sec until the CD is off. So basically you have a blind field for 30 sec. :S Again, idk if it’s been like that, since I only played with it like… once. Kinda sick though.

I don’t know where you are getting this from?
I’ve tested both in mist and on dummies in LA, with and w/o the trait. I’ve even removed and put back the utilities between the trait switches. The numbers are same both in skill description and actual damage numbers.

Talbin.8305:

I was looking forward to trying out a condition / turret build… then discovered that the turrets dont get the new buffs if you slot “deployable turrets”. Good times.

Uh, what…?

I just wanted make some comments on changes brought to Elixir U. First off, I’ve never really used this utility much, only in a few builds. Although the quickness reduction doesn’t bother me, what made me more upset was that they removed Veil from the toss elixir. To me it had a great function, mostly in spvp/wvw. Now it plays a completly different purpose for me. As for it being a stun break, when it comes to that, I don’t see why on earth you would pick it over Elixir R, which gives you both endurance back, has lower CD, and the toss effect being much better than from Elixir U. I guess you could go with both, but as I personally never was a fan of it, I see even less reason to pick it now. Maybe for the toss effect in dungeons, to protect you from projectiles and stack some blind on bosses – though this is only effective with pistols and rifle.

I’ve tried a few version of HGH builds in sPvP, mainly with rabid. Tried both P/P and P/S. But I feel so extremly squishy with it despite 2700 armor and 18k HP. It’s like I deal waaaay too little damage compared to the amount of damage I receive in that time. It also doesn’t feel like the elixirs is giving me much of a defense to my utility slots, beside elixir S. It works 1v1 depending on what class you meet, but 1v2 or more I just feel screwed.

What traits are you using?
And runes?

It’s just really annoying with mesmers.. Because it still takes 2-3 hits with grenades to kill the clones/illusions (i’m running condition grenade build though). In the mean while the real mesmer is somewhere in stealth hiding or among its clones while the illusions is dealing massive damage. The clones/illusions are also often spread out so you can put them down with the AoE, maybe 2 at once. I got 2700 armor in my Spvp build still I have real trouble with mesmers, mainly cause the illusions are just pain in the kitten + the insane amount of stun and daze and the burst, and you cannot focus one target (like with theives or warriors) because you have kitten hitting at you from all over the place.

An other reason why I find it hard, because it’s not that easy to predict the movement of the targets. And even when you do, they just seem to be a bit too faster than my granades hitting them.

Phineas Poe.3018:

All classes deal with their stun breakers being utility slots. You choose to go without them. Why should Engineers be special?

I agree. You just can’t always have the cake and eat it.

I really don’t see the problem. And I really dislike OP’s idea.
It’s enough that you have 1 kit and you’ll have access to 10 skills like any other class beside Elementalist which is an exception, not a rule! Minus the CD the every other class get on weapon swap.

I usually run with med kit, grenade kit, elixir gun, elixir R. Sometimes I swap exlir gun for something else, like elixir S. So there you have 15 skills, stun break, condition removals. You have CC from genades, elixir gun and main weapon (rifle in my case). So yeah, I don’t see what the problem is and I don’t feel that I’m lacking anything of what OP described.

IMO Engineers have a much bigger freedom to customize their skills than Eles. It’s not just the kits and utilities, but Tool bar skill is just as important. I would really hate to take away that from Engineer and what’s making them unique.

I’m running a grenadier engineer, mixed with berserker, knight, one valkyrie and one soldier piece, wurm runes. Basically I wanted balance the stats more or less, so now I have:

41% base crit chance (running +10 precision/stack sigil though, but considering changing to bloodlust)
55% crit damage
2374 Armor
18400-ish HP
3200-ish power.

I usually never play glass canon build, so I am not sure how much difference the extra 400 toughness actually will make, or if it’s more worth to get higher crit/crit damage. I’ve considered changing for more knights and cavalier pieces. But running with only base 15000 hp feels kinda low. Although I use both med kit, elixir gun and Kit refinement trait, so the condition removals shouldn’t be a problem and therefore I think more thoughness could compensate for the HP loss. We also have perma (more or less) HP bonus from guild upgrade. I’ve realized that I have same amount of armor as my ele and she’s full PVT gear with some cavalier as well.

So.. How much toughness would you guys think is worth getting to make a difference, but without loosing too much on DPS part?

So.. How much toughness would you guys think is worth getting to make a difference, but without loosing too much on DPS part?P.S. This is mainly for WvW (small scale to bigger groups) and dungeons..

JohnDied.3476:

Every patch they’re screwing with the engineer, at least the ranger’s meta is a little more stable.

Sometimes I wonder if I’m playing same game, cause Engineers has nothing but received bug fixes and some improvement to couple traits/kits, at least the last 3 major patches. Beside the one nerf to #1st grenade skill, but the others got improved at least.

Although this is a bit off topic.