Guild Wars 2

dybryd.1358:

I still hold out the hope that we’ll get the Tengu race bringing with it a class that can use spears on land — a lancer or dragoon type.

if what you mainly want is spears, that would probably be added to say warrior or guardian.
If there was some type of different playstyle or mechanic that you wanted around spears, it would be good to hear.

Astralporing.1957:

As people above said, should be a heavy armor class. Most likely the medium hp version (since both the high and low hp options are already covered). Problem is, that warrior and guardian already cover all of the sensible heavy armor spectrum.

heavy makes sense from a we only have 2 heavies standpoints, but there isnt really a unique proffesion that doesnt fit with warrior or guardian thats a heavy.
I can think up many light or medium armor types, but there isnt much else i can think of for heavy that wouldnt be mostly a cosmetic change

martial artist/shaolin monk

js is to make sure the economy doesnt blow up, and fix its percieved flaws, not to make sure all prices stay the same.
in fact from his words, sometimes he actively creates such change, and mini were actually in general undervalued, so it does make some sort of sense.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Devata.6589:

Why would people want it to fail while being active on these forums?

Never, ever underestimate the drive of a former fan to ruin or see ruined what they once loved.

i think people who are still here want it to succeed, however they different ideas of how that can/will happen

Azure The Heartless.3261:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.

any game that makes you pay a recurring fee to enjoy the core game content, where not paying would either prohibit you from playing the game or progressing to the same endpoint as players that do pay is a sub based game.

A demo is not a full game. It is an extended advertisement.

I don’t understand why that is impossible to grasp, still. Its like people don’t want to admit that Gw2 has everything available for free, and is still stable with revenue compared to games that force people to pay to gain or retain the right to play the entire game.

actually people are just trying to come up with consensus on what these terms mean, for example, by the definition you just gave, champions online and SWTOR are definately sub games, however to mika they are not.

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Ability to access and play the game is not vague at all.

Tell you what, try to play WoW or EvE without paying a sub, then try to play all those other games and then return to report which ones are sub based and which ones are F2P.

by your definition a great many the subscription type services in the world(not just games) are free because there exists a way to access those services in a limited amount/fashion without paying a subscription.

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

subscription doesnt mean you only get access to the game if you pay, it means you recieve a limited service for as long as you pay a fee. When you stop paying that fee, you lose the service.

for example champions online, with a sub you get access to a special type of charachter(think of a customizable proffession that can use skills from any jobs), all bank slots, hideouts, access to all special missions, but only WHILE you pay for the subscription. Once you stop playing you only have access to things free players have. You cant access your special charachters, or areas you once had access to, without buying them specifically.

essentially the subscription is not like buying a bundle of cash shop items, it is subscribing to a higher teir of service. Once your subscription runs out you no longer have access to anything from that higher teir.

they are very much a hybrid model, and are a bit different in goal, and monetization strategy than f2p or subscription by itself.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Sure, and those are all F2P games that have many ways to spend money, just like all other F2P games (sub is pretty much bundled cash shop items with maybe some “special” perks)

I dont understand why people are trying to cram “sub” into the definition of “free”.

Cash shop items are optional.

Sub game fees are not.

What you get for your money is irrelevant. The question to be addressed is “does the game force you to pay to receive key features or not?”

the problem with your definition is that “key features” is vague, and different people will interpret it differently

Devata.6589:

Behellagh.1468:

MikaHR.1978:

You mean they do exactly like F2P games do.

The only sub based games left are WoW and EvE (and well ESO and WS but yeah well see about those also, they arent doing well atm). You dont have to like it but thats a fact.

Trying to redefine sub based, well, i guess most people know what it is and are laughing same as i am.

Its pretty simple:

Can you access/play game for free after initial purchase?
a) no -> P2P (sub based)(includes stuff like PLEX)
b) yes -> F2P

By that definition then GW2 is F2P.

Sorry you can’t ignore the freemium/hybrid MMO business model which is neither pure F2P or P2P but offers both to the player.

SWTOR
http://www.swtor.com/free/features

LOTRO
http://www.lotro.com/en/game/vip

RIFT
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/#patron

TERA
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/elite-status

Here are some more:

Champions Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173

Star Trek Online
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713

Dungeons & Dragons Online
http://www.ddo.com/en/become-vip

EverQuest, EverQuest II, DCUO, Planetside 2
https://www.everquest.com/membership

All of these plans give the player the same access they had to the game’s features before the game went from P2P to freemium/hybrid. It’s different from say Nexon’s F2P MMOs where nobody was ever a subscribing player and everyone started with the same access.

Well a payment model says something about how a company makes it’s money. Of course there are multiple ways but where do they focus on?

Lets take WoW. It has a cash-shop (but very limited), it has a expansions but only once every 2 years so where does their main income come from? The sub. So we name is a sub-based model (P2P).

All those F2P games seem to be focusing on cash-shop sales. Those who used to be subs did not go F2P for nothing, They did because there sub-focus did not bring in enough money. So do you focus on the cash-shop it’s F2P (while the name is not great, that just evolved that way. Cash-shop model would be a better name). In many of the F2P games with optional sub they focus on the cash-shop and have the sub as a way out of the limitations.

Lastly there is B2P that focuses on the game sales. Mostly used model in the non-mmo marked but can also be used in the MMO market when releasing regular expansions and it focuses on that to generate it’s income. Thats what GW1 was.

Many of those are hybrids, and make their money in two ways.
Also many of the hybrids are actually more designed to encourage subscriptions.

Basically its not easy to define some of these games overall model, because it is varied.

But you are right, the overall revenue system will define the game growth and development.
While gw2 started off as a b2p game, it essentially is shifting to a f2p model. Less and less sales will occur as they penetrate the market, and a higher % of its earnings will come from the cash shop.
This means it will continue to develop as a cash shop game until they start selling b2p type content.

i will say this, as far as cash shop games go, the b2p aspect defiantely allowed it to be one of the most value for your buck types. The biggest negative effect of the cash shop is not so much its existence, so much as how the game seems to be growing/not growing.

rapthorne.7345:

From a financial perspective, ArenaNet really do need to add better and more varied items to their cash shop. While some players against buying gems may object to this, it’s for the game’s health.

I suspect a large part of why GW2’s profits are so low is the inclusion of the gold > gem trading, which means anyone with enough gold can simply trade gold for gems, and it seems a large number of 80’s who have been around for a long time have several thousand gold on hand, enough to buy tens of thousands of gems (10g ~ 100 gems), which is a huge net loss in potential profits.

If anything should be done at all, I think the gold > gem exchange should be closed, to better the health of the game (selfish desires to get cash shop items for free aside), or modified to allow only people who have gems to barter with to put up their gems for sale to people wishing to buy (Similar to how Perfect World do it)

contrary to conventional wisdom, the items that are bought with gold in the gem store still generate revenue indirectly.
Basically the desire for those gem store items, and the gold people trade to get it, is the product that is sold to those who buy gems to sell for gold.
If the exchange system is working properly, then every item bought with gold generates more money than items bought with gems, through the use of the gem exchange.
However the cost of running those transactions etc probably makes it either very close or the same earnings per transaction.

Short version, people who buy items from gemstore(gold/cash) contribute to the games earning. The people who dont contribute, are the ones who dont really participate in the gem store at all one way or the other.

this makes it seem like one of the best ways to increase earning would be to create gem store items that appeal to users who dont currently participate in the current gem store, while also maintaining the old ones.

However, at the end of the day increasing earnings does not necessarilly increase reinvestment. As far as i can see, anet is wholly owned, and cannot choose what to do with earnings on their own. Lineage gives an example of a game that makes a lot of money with minimal reinvestment, sooo yeah, earnings is interesting, but its just earnings.

Vayne.8563:

Genlog.4983:

Vayne.8563:

Genlog.4983:

SWTOR have a better model what i like to see here to players that are premium get more out of this game but then again that game is F2P with allot of restrictions

so you are forced in a way to be a premium and it seems allot do that
so its rely up to how players how they want to spend there real cash ??

GW2 is B2P they sold many copies but will they stile gain money after that ??

Yes, they’ll still gain money after that. If you go the way SWToR goes you’ll have a much smaller player base. People will, rightfully, see it as a betrayal and walk away.

true but its always hard for a companie to keep it good running its not cheap
to run a companie with so many pll that work there

It’s why they have a business plan and it’s why they have contingency plans. NcSoft and Anet aren’t new companies. They’re doing fine. Not spectacular, but fine. The way it is now, if they could keep this up, it’s maintainable.

But if they’re working on an expansion in the background, as some of us suspect, fixing the core game now (as in this feature patch) is really something important and takes on another context altogether.

I used to manage a store that made most of it’s money in five months out of the year. Seven months out of the year, we did quite badly, particularly over the summer months. Any quarterly report over the summer made us look really bad. Doesn’t meany anything because companies have to think ahead to longer than quarters.

what quarter do you expect to pick up revenue? for anet i mean. Barring an expansion my guess is it will soon fall behind blade and soul.

nexxe.7081:

Is it safe to say, that GW2’s gem sales went to fund Wildstar? If so, is it also safe to say that it totally sucks because Wildstar is failing hard, and we GW2 players got shafted because of it?

not really, arena net only gets a peice of their profits, they are basically work for hire. You could say that gw2 gem sales paid for wildstar, but only in the same way you could say lineage and aion paid for gw2 development over 5 years.

Really anets budget, is anets budget, how much money they make does not necessarily justify an increase in budget on that basis.
If you think of it like the black lion trading post, do you pay more for an item just because it sells for more, if no one else can supply that item?
probably not, you just pay the same price and increase your profits that way, whether you reinvest in that specific item, depends on whether you think reinvesting will increase earnings.

Essentially, whether anet gets a higher budget from ncsoft has more to do with whether ncsoft believes that throwing more money at anet will make more money than throwing more money elsewhere, than how much money anet brings in.

morrolan.9608:

The big surprise of this report is how badly Wildstar did on startup, seemingly only 500K players bought the game (compared to GW2s 3m and swtors 2m), and it has had significant population decline since then. GW2 has held up probably due its free to play status and the disappointments of WS and ESO. For all that swtor is doing better than it financially.

honestly gw2, and swtor were way higher than what is generally expected from MMOs in general.

if wildstars earnings are only showing for part of june, it may not have done too bad earning wise. Future earning reports will give a better picture.

the info i was looking for is how ncsoft specifically defines their quarters, different companies use different dates, and foreign companies also use different dates sometimes.
Any body knows?

Beldin.5498:

tigirius.9014:

Actually that too is false, plenty of games out there with the F2P models have 3-4 month schedules for content releases, have PTA systems of testing to emphasize quality rather than quantity, AND still maintain a very large international playerbase without having restricted every single aspect of the new patches coming out. I suggest that you take a look at those systems so that you too can see since you claim that you have a grasp of logic, why these systems have not only been successful but been repeated over and over again throughout the lives of these games and game systems.

The only F2P i know that has a PTS is Champions Online, however i would not play
that without a subscription, since the best part of the game, freeform characters,,
are not available without that.

And the main point, they never really cared about bugs found on PTS and always
realeased stuff that was bugged 100 times. So in the end the PTS is mostly just a
way to test build without having to pay actual ingame currency for respecs.

actually a couple years ago i took part in their ptr, and they actually fixed a lot of bugs from the ptr, reworked skills/abilities based on suggestions, and altered level design. Now, once it shipped, very little was changed(from what i read they had bugs still there from release), but you also must recognize champions online had a super skeleton crew at that point, they realisttically could not have done much more than they did. Focus was on new content and reworking powers, new features because honestly i believe that is way more important than fixing old bugs.

was a fun game for me though, i give the dev team props for doing so much with so little, and such a small audience. In many ways it was a precursor to GW2 imo

Obtena.7952:

Ohoni.6057:

What should it hinge on then?

Like with the Mawdrey thing only moreso, all the requirements should involve going out and doing things in the world yourself.

That’s still accumulation of wealth. It’s not different than what you have to do to get a legendary … doing content, getting stuff. Everything in this game boils down to earning what you need to get something. You’re splitting the hairs again.

all methods that can achieve the same ends, are not interchangeable.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Except when they include certain maps.

Colin Johanson:

‘A feature release is not an expansion, it’s a release focused on game features. Examples of game features we’ve done in the past would be: guild missions, account achievement system, spectator mode, new pvp maps, daily world boss chests, removing culling and giving visibility options, the WvW WxP system, etc.’

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Expansion-sized-patch/first#post3748098

Actually inspite of everyone in the thread saying its obvious, it is actually not obvious. 3 out if 7 of the examples of what to expect in a feature patch according to the quote would fall under content.

Guild missions
Pvp map
Wvw xp system/wvw skills.

If we had gotten for example 20 new skills 20 new traits, more expansive guild missions and new mission types, and a new pvp map, that would have probably been the type of content the op is talking about, and that apparently is considered features.

The fact is, whatever monetary system they choose is going to have a large effect on the game.
Initially they thought they could ride this beast, but post launch, i would say the gem store is a fairly large focus of the game.

And yes the game itself does suffer for being monetarily supported by the gem shop. Now, some would say without the gem shop they would have no money, not really true, without the gem shop they would have a different monetization strategy.
imo, the best monetization strategy would be one that encourages them to develop the things that improve the game the most.

What is that monetization strategy? hmm that may be tricky, but as long as the gem shop works how it does, you can expect more items people value to appear in the shop, and less in the game.

The amount of money they earn is based on how many people want to buy gem store items and how much they are willing to spend on those gem store items.

The game itself in this type of model will eventually become a playground for gem store items.

Behellagh.1468:

Movies, mostly, aren’t participatory. It’s more like getting your workspace refurbished. And a better selection in the snack room.

Yeah i would probably quit my job if i found any place that paid better and was less boring, regardless of new snacks and workspace refurbishing.

but regardless problem with the analogy to workspace, is the game isnt paying you.

It would be similar to a job you dont get paid for that you do strictly for entertainment, when the job gets boring, no snacks or refurbishing will save it. They need to work on making the game overall more interesting/new/fun.

They have not created a sandbox game, the amount of entertainment people get from it, is going to based mostly on the content they build. They need to build substantial new content.

either that, or they have a life expectancy per player, and assume everyone will quit, and just keep getting new players, but thats a losing strategy there are less and less players who are interested who havent already tried or heard about GW2 with every passing moment.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The game that I bought back in 2012 was very much worth the money. I still get enjoyment from it from time to time. That does not mean I am entitled to anything beyond access to the game based on my original and early gem purchases. What’s been added since is not worth continuing to support the company, imo. So, I don’t support it. However, it’s also a good idea to let the company know what you’d like when you say you’re not buying because you don’t like X. My belief on this is that a game company is going to be more willing to listen to suggestions about content than demands they change their business model.

similarly the game i bought in 2012 was worth it, but the game i have now is not worth playing any more, and thus i have no reason to buy anything.
Not saying anything is wrong with the game if you are new, other than the post game development not looking to promising.

excellent intial buy, long term development fairly weak in terms of entertainment, though they have added many amenities.

Its like a movie theater that shows the same movies, but gets better seats, bathrooms, and concession stand items.

Dont expect me to go to the movie theater for the concession stands, and bathrooms, its nice, but thats not why i really go to the movies.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

gobax.6185:

Its funny how people still think heavy and medium is still as good as light armor after the patch hits.

Stop lying to yourselves / playing blind. Anet already announced the new mechanics. No matter how hard you try to counter it, the fact that it was stated that light armor users will get more light armors than the other 2 is already enough of a statement that says kitten medium and heavy classes.

Light armor have the cleaves. Elems have auto attack fire staff, dagger, aa water dagger, fire staff number 2 etcetc lots of aoe potential. Necros have marks. Never played mesmer. But currently the most classes i see running around in zerg tagging mobs are

Necros, guardians, elems, rangers and engineers. Sadly after patch, it will be down to elems and necros

Fact is: we don’t know what it will be like. What we have to date is speculation based on absolutely no information. Heck, no one has yet presented the “before the patch” data that we could compare, so I doubt we’ll even know after the patch what exactly has changed.

uhh data is highly overated, you dont need data to know understand x is in 2x+5>15. They laid out the formula, you will get more proffesion usuable gear from drops, more is means more. The degree is not that relevant.
If you are an engineer, all your proffession specifc drops are cheap. you will make less money. You can debate how much, but if it does what it says it does, you will make less.

The only thing i will say is unknown, and probably needs more data, is how the market will adapt to this change over time. Its theoretically possible that they could balance out changes with drop rates, but that seems less likely the less noticeable the change is. Kind of odd when you think about it.

Noah.9654:

They say that only unhappy people write reviews. After reading the recent post about how satisfied the entire (forum) community is as well as reading through all of the whining from forums, I decided to actually make a post about how thankful I am for ANet and GW2.

A little bit of background: before starting this game in May/June, I was helping the development of a Pokemon MMO. The game was made on a faulty system and as such, no matter how much we tried or how good of programmers we were, the game would always have bugs. Our community knew that and still played because we all enjoyed the great sense of community we had. Nintendo of America then shut us down after a year and a half of work.

I decided to try a new MMO and Guild Wars 2 caught my eye because I assumed that it would be a community-based game…..since it has ‘Guild’ in its name. The deciding factor to buy the game was because I really wanted to get Bonetti’s Rapier. I really love rapiers and there aren’t many games that allow me to both use one and magic. The combination of magic, a rapier, and a pistol is what made me choose Mesmer as my class.

Skip to the part where I started reading the forums and about how the Mesmer class was ‘garbage in all game modes,’ how there were a ton of bugs, no endgame content, PvP—Skyhammer in specific—was somehow flawed, and something about only wanting players who attained some non-existent ‘skill’ to be able to play. To put simply; the forum community was not happy.

However, I always was. I founded a great guild of people who have very similar lives as I do. I found that sense of social community that I was longing for. I think that the Guilds in Guild Wars 2 is the best part of the game. Even if the game itself is flawed, you still have a great community—friends—that you can play with. Everything you can do in the game is so much better if you do them with your community/friends whether is be PvE, PvP, of WvW. I think that was what ANet was striving for and I think that it is absolutely brilliant!

TL:DR – Great job on an awesome community game, ANet. Keep doing what you’re doing.

Loving your guild is nice, but anything you do with a bunch of friends is good, even sitting around doing nothing. While your guild is doing well with the gw2 system, trust that many more guilds have died than thrived. This suggests that it is not so good at it seems at keeping guilds together, and you just probably found a bunch of cool guys. Thats cool, you can take them into other games later

GOSU.9574:

Originally by the time someone hit 30 the levelling game was over. You had everything unlocked you would need with the exception of master and grandmaster. It did cause quite a few players that I knew at the time to quit shortly after hitting 30.

Instead of improving the experience from 30-80, it’s only gotten worse.

There is a reason old GW1 players were flabbergasted by the 80 levels developers ended up putting into this game. You could get to 20, very easily, by yourself and with no assistance in a few hours in GW1 (20 being that game’s level cap). Now you would go out capping elites, pvp, compete in GvG, etc. GW2’s end game content is so shallow they had to gate you reaching it. Then they gated how often you were rewarded for participating in GW2’s end game.

Yeah, gating vs enjoyable experience, you can see where the team fell over that line.

master and grandmaster traits was kind of a big deal, and it was pretty unlikely to have enough skill points to get all skills by 30. If you quit by 30 its because you didnt like the game itself. Even though i agree that there were some dead zones, overall, leveling from 1-80 is the best part of the game, so if you didnt like that, oh well.

I agree that dragging it out will not improve the game.

Gaebriel.3754:

Absolutely! I mean the way I currently have to obtain it is not perfect, no way, but it just doesn’t annoy me/ feel grindy to me in the slightest.

In most online RPG’s the cool items are locked behind a certain boss and the only way to get it is to farm it over and over again, so that’s what I compare it with. Here I just play.

you are comparing it to a bad system they said they didnt plan to replicate. I would say gw1 eye of the north elite armors were better aquisition, gain some respect in an area, (via random killings, or through doing the main story) Bring back some items obtained primarily from that area, and some gold, get cool armor, which unlocks for your home instance and your charachter.

Breaking Bad.6241:

Actually, the reward system is great. If I wanted Zodiac armor I don’t have to grind some dungeon 100s of times or kill some boss over and over again. I can play whatever I want (wvw, pvp, dungeons, key farm, world boss, etc) to save up and buy it.

key farm is dying soon, so best believe that in the future you will be paying like 5-10 times what you used to for weapon skins, and you wont be able to get one yourself, without spending massive irl money or gold.

138 gold for 1k gems right now, so that means you got to do like 80 dungeons runs to get your zodiac armor.

but ehh, some people love buying stuff, with gold/real money, its never been an exciting way to obtain anything for me.

also gold rewards are staying the same, while the value of gems versus gold is rising.

lordkrall.7241:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Nothing, but my point was that the Gem Store has contaminated the reward system.

The bigger issue here is that each BLC could have been an actual reward. Instead, it is a placeholder for a reward, that I will not be cashing in.

I don’t think it’s quite that simple. I think a lot of players might agree that the game lacks good rewards, and I’m saying that the Gem Store is the cause.

There are more game-affecting items in the store now, than there ever were in GW1. The various boosters come to mind, but worse are the instant-teleport-to-home instance items. The ore-node for your home instance, the airship tickets, the dyes that you now have to buy (they were removed as drops, and many dyes can not be crafted). The toys that give you fun skills to use in PVE, the musical instruments.

Basically everything that’s really fun about the game, has been locked in the store. If all these items were obtainable in the game itself, the game would be so much more rewarding, and there would be a lot more to do.

I don’t agree. I can quite easily get everything I want in-game by simply playing. The gem store have no bearing at all on my enjoyment of feel of rewards.

Yes a lot of people might agree with that. But at the same time a lot of people might not. And I rather sure that many of those that do agree, does not blame the gem store for it.

Probably, but in GW1 we had the ability to outright buy every single skill in the game, instead of unlocking them. Which gave a massive advantage to PvP-players.
The Mercenary Heroes also made it possible to create more or less completely invincible AI-controlled teams, which was a very large advantage that was completely unobtainable without paying real money.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And this is simply not true. They could release an expansion, and continue to pay for their development that way.

And how do you suggest they paid all their 300+ employees during those years it takes to develop the expansion?

with the profit made from making a game, like 90% of games on the market, and guild wars 1. they made more money off box sales in the first few months than they made in like a year of gem store focus.

you can best believe if the way they made money was through expansions, we would have had one by now, and the game would probably be better for it.
The main premise is not that you need the gem store to play the game, the point is the reward system is lame, and thats probably because of the gem store focus, and a desire to keep the economy a certain way that helps keep the gem store semi stable.

Beldin.5498:

wolfyrik.2017:

After the September patch, ‘between’ levels will be even less progressive, having no traits and no stats either. With 80 levels to get through, that’s a lot of dead levels with no progression whatsoever. Progression will grind to a halt between arbitrary numbers.
To me that seems like it will make levelling feel less progressive over all, not more.

In the end they can strip now all the dead levels and make max level 16 or 20.

Stats every five levels .. so 80 / 5 = 16

Just adjust traits then to start with level 3, and we get another each level.

Or make it every 4 level .. so 80 / 4 = 20 .. and there we are back to max level from GW1

but they will not, so why bring it up?

laokoko.7403:

Lady Celtaine.3760:

laokoko.7403:

Lady Celtaine.3760:

laokoko.7403:

the open world is so easy I dont’ think those traits even matters.

for dungeon experience probably matters more than a few trait points.

I’ve been playing over a year, certain professions just plain need the traits to be less squishy. Tried to take an ele lvl 32 with lvl 30 rare gear through level 31 story Dredging up the Past. Could not get past the first 2 dredge. Tried many different tactics, high dmg then tried high survivability, endurance bar consistently empty where I couldn’t dodge any more and died anyway every time I tried it without fail. Simply put it’s just plain underpowered. Considering when GW2 first came out we were more or less promised we would be able to solo most if not all of the game if we wanted I feel really let down.

I don’t even know how many characters I have. Maybe 23 lvl80? probalby 16 of them finished map completion.

I dotn’ know how you can have so much problems. I could probably just autoattack and press 1 and get through all the map completion and personal story.

I think it is more of you need to read some strategy from the web. It is actually pretty easy if you know what to do.

Easy to say, near impossible to do. Read strategy? From who exactly, a player that knows just the same things I do and has more or less the same experience? Strategy is fine when you have the tools execute it, the experience/expertise and willing is not enough on it’s own. Taking that Ele into Dredging up the past was akin to being given 3 paperclips and told to build a car out of it. Doesn’t matter if you are a mechanic you still can’t do it with 3 paper clips.
No offence ofc, just sayin’. /shrug

So you are telling me you can’t kill 2 “normal” dredge(or is it veteran).

you do realize most normal mob die in 2-3 hit if you maximize your dps.

Try maximizing your dps first, buy lvl32 strong green gear, put in ruby/rune or upgrade component that boost damage in every piece, use dagger dagger, and you can just spam 1 with fire and kill most of the things. (make sure you are close to the target though, else you’ll hit only once instead of 3 times with dagger 1 fire). If you are having trouble summon elemental, water is usually great because it can heal you, or fire/earth depend on situation. also you can use consumable. Usually damage boost consumable, or heal on kill or crit is also good.

There are also other trick such as getting 1 time use consumable. there is a healing seed which is useful early on. And you can also run to fire heart rise and buy the fire elemental powder. Eventhough those are on 30 minutes cooldown.

dont say its easy until you try it on that charachter/level, it is possible they forgot to nerf the enemies in certain story steps, or didnt bother because they were planning to release this current update with newly balanced personal story.

the trait system, as implemented is directly opposed to what they say they wanted to achieve with it.

It is not simpler
The UI is worse (more clicks for less understanding)
The implementation makes making a build fairly complex
Its repetive and not adapted to the actual traits being used

What it does do, is not what they said its goals are.
lengthens the leveling experience, gives short term goals, etc.
It probably works better overall within the new system they currently added,
which gives you more reinforcement for leveling, and has large gaps (now that story doesnt lead you to zones at the appropriate levels) Which now needs goals to distract you for 10 levels at a clip.

That said, its still a pretty poor peice to the puzzle.

the tasks are generic and not well tested for fun
the tasks require pvers to pvp and pvpers to pve
the replayability factor is low (people will only be new to the game one time, it should have been more focused around being new to a PROFFESION being fun)
The UI is poor
Blah blah, its bad

Solandri.9640:

adormtil.1605:

what did you have now and you did not have then that you can make more gold?

They vastly increased the frequency of rares from world boss events. A lot of little changes too (e.g. many blues and greens I can make more money from selling on TP than to an NPC). But the world boss rares are the big one.

you were just bad at farming back then. gems are objectively way more valuable now. If the gem shop hadnt changed, the value would still be pretty low.

gem to gold exchange isnt really based on inflation, its based on how valuable people find gems compared to gold.
though, how valuable they find gold is effected somewhat by inflation.

JusticarArkiel.1564:

the move-back of when the state unlocks is kinda silly imo, i’ve seen plenty of lvl 1-4’s die. maybe just do like some other games do, have a forced death that allows you to explain the downed state, maybe during the tutorial instance one of the mobs gets to insta-down you or something

they actually had something like that, but they didnt really explain it much.

I think the level 1 fights used to have a guaranteed down, or at least a highly likely downing. Then the npc would yell something like RALLY!

it was a pretty stupid tutorial. They were really bad at tutorials, They moved it to level 5, but i would say the reall problem is that they never explained it well to anyone. To be honest the first time it happened, i was more confused about what hit me, rather than the downstate itself.

Vayne.8563:

GOSU.9574:

Vayne.8563:

It’s no longer possible. All other meta events are on schedules, but that can’t be done with the temples, due to the complexity of the event chains.

I am not sure what is so “complex”. Before every server had it’s own event chain, and they could be tracked. Now with Megaservers you have like 1,2 maybe 3 map instances max.

I think it’s more of an anet didn’t get it’s data together for sharing the info.

Just because they opted to put “Mega” in the name doesn’t make it some newly created logistical nightmare, it’s still a single map instance.

Nope. In every other instance, there’s a schedule for when the pre-event starts, and you have 15 minutes to do that event chain.

Now with the temples, because the pre-events can have different states, and they’re on all the time, it’s not possible. The servers can’t be synchronized.

Think of this example. 2 servers start doing the event chain at the same time. Server one goes all the way through, without failing an event. Server 2 messes up the event chain over and over. It keeps restarting. There’s no limit to how many times those event chains can restart.

On server 1 the temple is already taken and there’s a defense event up. That happens in no other meta. The defense event fails and one set of circumstances happen. If it succeeds another set of circumstances.

But on the second server, they haven’t taken the temple yet and they’re still repeating the same event.

So the servers can’t be in sync and so you can’t have a timer.

Unlike other simpler events which can just have a schedule.

what he is saying is not inaccurate, it is most likely that subastantially less servers exist in Orr than they did previously.
therefore tracking the events is not actually any harder than it was before.

However the main difference is the api wouldnt have the same info, nor can people choose their megaserver. Its definately possible to track, but they would have to change around the api a bit. Mostly, they probably arent that interested in giving people access to that type of info at this time, nor interested enough to rebuild the api for it.

it would essentially require them to show all the current instances and their IP addresses, and when they are closing/etc. At this time my guess is they dont want to give people such info.

To be clear, they wouldnt have to synchronize the servers, they would just have to show the current states of the available servers.

tolunart.2095:

phys.7689:

mtpelion.4562:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Now that we have confirmation that this will be relatively minor , does anyone wish to change their opinions?

If the change isn’t noticeable, then the impact also won’t be noticeable.

I kind of wonder why they are bothering to implement such a system if the impact is so minor as to “not be noticeable”.

exactly, this is really foolish. Why waste time making virtually unnoticeable changes? what a waste of dev time/blogposts if this is the case.

One big complaint about loot drops is that most of them are only good for salvage/sell and of no direct use to the player. Any nudge towards giving the player more items that his toon can equip is a step in the right direction. They can adjust the rate later, but it needs to be established in order to study its effects. A small change will have less disruption than a big change.

i actually would like some change that gave a more elastic supply, however if it is actually unoticeably small, it doesnt seem worth the effort.

im with you my brother!

mtpelion.4562:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Now that we have confirmation that this will be relatively minor , does anyone wish to change their opinions?

If the change isn’t noticeable, then the impact also won’t be noticeable.

I kind of wonder why they are bothering to implement such a system if the impact is so minor as to “not be noticeable”.

exactly, this is really foolish. Why waste time making virtually unnoticeable changes? what a waste of dev time/blogposts if this is the case.

Piogre.2164:

Piogre.2164:

At this preliminary look, Elementalist seems to be the best choice, BUT when I get home after classes I can check the tp and compare the actual base prices of every weapon and make a more educated decision.

Went through and took down the starting selling price for rares on the TP. Compiled results:

axe 43

Hammer 48

longbow 44

dagger 66

focus 40

GS 79

pistol 43

scepter 41

spear 41

speargun 41

staff 65

sword 71

shortbow 47

torch 40

trident 40

warhorn 40

---

God tier cloth wearers:

Mes: Greatsword 79, staff 65, scepter 41, sword 71, focus 40, pistol 43, torch 40, spear 41, trident 40 /9 weapon types = 51.1 silver average (optimal class)

Ele: staff 65, scepter 41, dagger 66, focus 40, trident 40 /5 = 50.4 silver average (close second)

Necro: Staff 65, Scepter 41, axe 43, dagger 66, focus 40, warhorn 40, spear 41, trident 40 /8 weapon types = 47 silver average

---

Mid-tier metal wearers:

Guard: hammer 48, greatsword 79, staff 65, mace 40, scepter 41, sword 71, focus 40, shield 41, torch 40, spear 41, trident 40 /11 weapon types = 49.6 silver average

War: Hammer 48, Greatsword 79, Longbow 44, Rifle 41, Axe 43, sword 71, mace 40, shield 41, warhorn 40, speargun 41, spear 41 /11 weapon types = 48.1 silver average

---

Dirt-tier leather wearers:

Thief: dagger 66, shortbow 47, pistol 43, sword 71, spear 41, speargun 41 /6 = 51.5 silver average (congrats thief, you’re the best of the worst)

Ranger: greatsword 79, longbow 44, shortbow 47, sword 71, axe 43, dagger 66, torch 40, warhorn 40, speargun 41, spear 41 /10 = 51.2

Engie: Rifle 41, pistol 43, shield 41, speargun 41 /4 weapon types = 41.5 silver average (Engie gets it in the shorts once again)

Worth noting that these are based on the starting selling prices of the hour, so not entirely precise. It also makes the assumption that exotics will scale up the same in value.

TL;DR: After patch, best class to farm with will be Mesmers and Elementalists, meanwhile Engie is by far the worst off (what else is new).

weapon wise, its all pretty close except for engi.

pdavis.8031:

So we are assuming that as a heavy, you will not ever get medium or light armor drops in order to salvage for cloth. The blog states that you will still get those types of drops, but not as often. More often then not I, as a heavy, get light and medium armor drops then heavy with the current system. We also don’t know if cloth will be made available as salvaging results regardless of the armor type. Which would make sense, as you need cloth to craft it. I just can’t imagine that such a thing as limiting which profession can obtain materials would not have been addressed and already taken care of.

it may be they find it acceptable, there are advantages to the system, the big problem imo, is that they try to simplify it by hardwiring it, when it should be selectable.

mtpelion.4562:

Minos.5168:

It’s a very dangerous thing in my opinion (especially with the current state of Ascended crafting).

All Ascended armors require lots of Damask (3 per insignia, at the very least).

This will keep silk at a premium. (It’s 100 silk per Damask, while it’s only 50 thick leather per Elonian leather)

Reducing silk drops to just light armor wearers is a very bad decision.

Even if it’s just “pre-80”, that still means that light armor professions will have a much easier time leveling than others. (As their gear will be worth more, especially once salvaged.) This results in an imbalance of wealth to light armor wearers.

This change is going to result in an overall INCREASE in the supply of cloth because farmers are smart enough to use light armor classes for their farming character (if this change is significant enough to have any impact at all, why would you waste your time farming on a heavy or medium when you could be increasing your loot value by 5-30 TIMES simply by swapping toons?)

Increased supply + stable demand =

Anyone?

its not really an increase, its making the supply more elastic, which imo is overall a good thing, especiaslly when its mutually exclusive, leather may just go up 1 copper!

the main problem is feeling forced to play a certain class, if it doesnt work for level 80s, its going to make hitting 80 kind of suck for farmers.

Minos.5168:

It’s a very dangerous thing in my opinion (especially with the current state of Ascended crafting).

All Ascended armors require lots of Damask (3 per insignia, at the very least).

This will keep silk at a premium. (It’s 100 silk per Damask, while it’s only 50 thick leather per Elonian leather)

Reducing silk drops to just light armor wearers is a very bad decision.

Even if it’s just “pre-80”, that still means that light armor professions will have a much easier time leveling than others. (As their gear will be worth more, especially once salvaged.) This results in an imbalance of wealth to light armor wearers.

if it is more profitable, people will start playing light armor for farming, and it will balance out. In fact this mitigate the imbalances in certain markets.

However, as i said in another thread, it will work better if the job drop is selectable, and not bound to your current class.
The lack of control of supply is a big reason for many prices, more player control of supply could lead to lower prices.

I would even expand this drop change to other types of things,

however i recognize nothing is going to change now, they dont have enough QA time regardless, whatever happens is now set in stone. Really wish they would talk about some of these things ahead of time.

pdavis.8031:

Mesket.5728:

pdavis.8031:

Mesket.5728:

Wait a minute… does ANet still consider they have “drops” on their mobs? I thought it was perfectly clear already that there are no “drops” in GW2 and everything that falls from mobs are salvage material

I mean,… are they really aware of what’s going on in GW2? do they know that to craft heavy you need light? maybe this idea was tossed out by a new hired and approved by a senior who never logged into the game… its the only reasonable explanation

Umm…I crafted a full set of ascended heavy without ever touching light or medium. In fact, I don’t have any levels in medium or light.

World first not to craft damask silk and get a full set of heavy armor then… unless we play different games, I needed tonz of light armor materials to craft my heavy. Not only silk but all kind of cloth

Damask silk can be crafted via heavy armorsmith. The cloth materials are not limited to light armorsmithing (tailoring), but can be made with all the armorsmithing trades (light, medium, and heavy)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armorsmith
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leatherworker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tailor

Yes there is some overlap, but one is not dependant on the other trades.

the point is that when he plays his heavy class, he will get less cloth, because he will get let cloth item drops, which means it will take him a lot longer to gather materials for crafting his heavy armor, since silk is a big part of crafting them.

essentially this change will change the spread of what type of materials you get from crafting based on what proffesion you play.

proffesions are not crafting disciplines btw, in case that was the cause of confusion

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

you dont really need a test drive on some things. If the system works as it is intended, it will reduce drops of a certain type and increase drops of another type. Test driving is uneccessary when you know the specs as described dont fit your specifications.

if you want a fast car, there is no point in test driving a car with a max speed of 30 mph and acceleration of 0-30 in 20 seconds.

If it works as it describes, you will get a different spread of items, thats all one really needs to know to make some assertions

That’s just it though, it’s not really described.

“You’re likely to get more loot you can use” How much more likely?

“A bit less common than before” How much less common?

“Leveling players get more that they can use” Does this change ever reaching the cap? Are there different algorithms being used?

We can make some assumptions. Doesn’t mean they will be accurate.

well, the degree of the change doesnt really matter, that it exists at all will make some players feel like they should not play certain classes, if it is almost negligeble in terms of overall drops, it would mean the change is pointless.

the big question is whether it would effect only low level proffesions, which imo makes the change pretty lame, slightly annoying to have to buy greens, but ehhhh they are generally super cheap anyhow.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

If profession loot affects level 80 characters, playing certain classes will become more profitable than playing other classes.

For example, mesmers will be getting cloth armor and staves where rangers get leather armor and bows. In that case, the mesmer is getting significantly more valuable loot than the ranger.

to reiterate

what they should do:

• Item hunter type (select your drop type)
  • mesmer
  • guardian
  • warrior
  • theif
  • necromancer
  • ranger
  • engineer
  • elementalist
  • your current crafting discipline

default would be your current class.
having the option would basically allow people to have a greater effect on supply, which would itself help balance many out of balance markets, with a more adaptive supply. WITHOUT making people play or not play certain classes.

its an all around win

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Dayra.7405:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

A lot is going to depend on how this is actually implemented. Unless they actually come in here and clarify, I think the best we can do is really just wait and see. I don’t think it’s fair to say its going to be an issue, when we simply don’t know. It does possess the potential to be an issue, that is definitely true.

The best think is what we are doing: Pointing to an issue that may got overlooked. Still 2 weeks for minor repairs, like changing some numbers in some tables.

Oh, I’m not saying to not point out the potential flaws. By all means!

My point was don’t necessarily convince yourself that it’s going to be an issue, when it might not be. It definitely possible that these things could be issues, it’s just unfair to say it is an issue when we haven’t been able to give this a test drive yet. Does that make sense?

you dont really need a test drive on some things. If the system works as it is intended, it will reduce drops of a certain type and increase drops of another type. Test driving is uneccessary when you know the specs as described dont fit your specifications.

if you want a fast car, there is no point in test driving a car with a max speed of 30 mph and acceleration of 0-30 in 20 seconds.

If it works as it describes, you will get a different spread of items, thats all one really needs to know to make some assertions

Ohoni.6057:

The target would be for them to cost less than currently available Pres. I would go with a four part recipe.

Part 1: Forge four exotic weapons of the same type (ie 4 specific greatswords) that are currently selling in the 1-5g range, and MF them, you get one “Initiator [weapon type] blade.”

Part 2: Forge any four different Dungeon Token exotic weapons of that type, to receive one “Initator [weapon type] hilt.”

Part 3: Forge the copycat weapon for the Precursor (for example Khrysaor for Greatswords), and combine that with three stacks of Bloodstone Dust to receive one “[Precursor name] Mold” (they would need to greatly up the drop rates of the copycat weapons, of course, perhaps even allowing you to directly craft account-bound versions of them if it became an issue).

Part 4: Forge these three elements with a “Heart of Zhaitan” item that you get two of each time you complete the personal story (retroactively rewarded to those that have completed it).

The result is one Account Bound precursor of that type. I’m no market expert, but my target on all those materials would be a total cost in the 20g range or so.

part 3 is a bit flawed, i think i got 3 to 0 copycat items before getting succesful forges, im not sure how much higher their rate is than precursors, which would mean they might be a bit more pricey than you imagine should your idea go into place.

Overall id say most of these solutions are too item centric.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

And you know, I wouldn’t mind new professions or races. I wouldn’t mind new zones either. I have nothing against any of these things.

Any ones in particular? What was your favorite Guild Wars profession and/or combination of professions? What’s the closest thing to that in GW2? What’s your favorite class from any other game, and could something similar be incorporated into this game? What new zones would you like to see? Would you prefer to stay on the current in-game map, with all its currently unexplored areas, or revisit distant lands from the old game – or sail the unknown seas of Tyria to a land never before seen?

the answer is….
martial artist! (monk in other games)

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying and I don’t like that behavior either but my point was the result is the same and that is what they aren’t addressing. It is somewhat suspect that they won’t give a generic roadmap and say “for now that’s all the information you’re going to get”, to be honest the only reason I see for not doing that would be that they have far less in the pipeline that many would expect at this time. Now that could really hurt your business long term.

But they’re directly saying they don’t want to say, not because they don’t have stuff in the pipeline, but because they’re not going to falsely raise hopes, in case some of the stuff in the pipeline gets changed and or canceled. That’s the reason Anet gave and it’s different from what you’re saying is the only reason.

It’s entirely possible they’re in a once bitten, twice shy reaction.

but think of the lie you might be telling, and you get to the real heart of why the consumer left.

lets say you run a video game shop,
and someone says, i want super mario 5 the day it comes out, will you have it the same day? and you say yes.
then something happens and you dont have it
he is mad, he calls you a liar, but you know why he is really mad?
because he wanted super mario 5, and you dont have it.
he would have left your store before, and found some other store that would have it.
he is mad because he didnt get what he wanted, he is kittened off, mostly because he wasted his time, and he isnt getting what he wanted.

your statement kept the customer who was going to leave, that it was untrue may make him leave now, but he was gonna leave anyway. MOST ESPECIALLY he will leave if when he asks you the question you directly ignore him saying nothing.

We’re dangerously off topic here, so this is my last post on this. Yes, I think it’s wrong to call someone a liar, and I’ll always think it’s wrong, if they in fact may not have lied. If you’re okay with that, that’s fine. I’m not okay with it, and I don’t think anyone should be okay with it.

I can’t tell you what’s right and wrong for you. But this is definitely wrong to me.

if you make it about calling people liars, its off topic, if you make it about what type of communication is necessary to do business it matters.

you as a store owner told people what day you were supposed to get the item, did you ever think it was a better idea to not allow preorders, or tell people the ship dates? Do you think it would be a good idea to tell them, i cant tell you about any upcoming games, come check each week?

when people yell at you because something out of your control happens, you get mad, you feel its unfair, but you dont let it stop you from making the right decsion, to tell your customers, to the best of your ability, what to expect.

if you let the fear of being wrong cripple your ability to communicate, nothing good comes from it.

how about the ability to change your profession drop affinity in the options to any class or generic

best of all worlds i’d say.

heck why not add also a crafting discipline option,

Vayne.8563:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying and I don’t like that behavior either but my point was the result is the same and that is what they aren’t addressing. It is somewhat suspect that they won’t give a generic roadmap and say “for now that’s all the information you’re going to get”, to be honest the only reason I see for not doing that would be that they have far less in the pipeline that many would expect at this time. Now that could really hurt your business long term.

But they’re directly saying they don’t want to say, not because they don’t have stuff in the pipeline, but because they’re not going to falsely raise hopes, in case some of the stuff in the pipeline gets changed and or canceled. That’s the reason Anet gave and it’s different from what you’re saying is the only reason.

It’s entirely possible they’re in a once bitten, twice shy reaction.

but think of the lie you might be telling, and you get to the real heart of why the consumer left.

lets say you run a video game shop,
and someone says, i want super mario 5 the day it comes out, will you have it the same day? and you say yes.
then something happens and you dont have it
he is mad, he calls you a liar, but you know why he is really mad?
because he wanted super mario 5, and you dont have it.
he would have left your store before, and found some other store that would have it.
he is mad because he didnt get what he wanted, he is kittened off, mostly because he wasted his time, and he isnt getting what he wanted.

your statement kept the customer who was going to leave, that it was untrue may make him leave now, but he was gonna leave anyway. MOST ESPECIALLY he will leave if when he asks you the question you directly ignore him saying nothing.

Vayne.8563:

I love how people think I don’t get what people are saying. It blows my mind.

I get it. What’s not to get. Guy A wants some stuff and Guy B wants some stuff, but those two guys…they may not want the same stuff.

The point is you’re right. A lot of stuff other MMOs have provided Anet hasn’t yet provided. That’s 100% true. What you’re missing is that some of us came here to get away from other MMOs. I don’t LIKE other MMOs or I’d be playing them.

Anet is focusing on the stuff that makes it different from other MMOs not the same. And those who like the features those MMOs have are feeling they’re missing out…and they are.

Doesn’t change a single thing I’ve said up until now. Not one, single thing.

you dont really do dungeons, but ill tell you that anet dunegons when done well feel fairly different from other dungeons, due to a different combat system, the lack of the trinity, and a focus on the overal dungeon rather than just one boss.

Dynamic event system is also something anet did well on release, but post release hasnt seen much of import.

WvW is one of the main things gw2 does different than other MMOs.

the type of exploration you got when you bought the game, i would say is another thing they did well.

weapons classes being added expands the weapon skill system fairly unique to GW2

many of the things people are asking for arent features come from other MMOs, people are looking for GW2 type features expanded. Lets be honest, the living story currently represents personal story (in terms of what was on release) Which is not one of its strengths, nor is it its most unique aspect.

Some people want some of the other gw2 type things to be expanded on/evolved.