Guild Wars 2

dont think it would work out with the contracts they signed, they could perhaps have other books there, but not the ones that were published.

Gewd.8125:

phys.7689:

Im no genius, but the link you posted actually says he proved EPR right. "In the early 1980s, while working on his PhD thesis¹ from the lesser academic rank of lecturer, he performed the elusive “Bell test experiments” that showed that Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen’s reductio ad absurdum of quantum mechanics, namely that it implied ‘ghostly action at a distance’, did in fact appear to be realised when two particles were separated by an arbitrarily large distance (see EPR paradox)"

You might want to learn what that means. You’re no genius and you certainly aren’t capable of reading either.

Cormac.3871:

Unfortunately for Gewd he picked the example to show that thought experiments could be wrong so it really doesn’t work at doing that. While I concede that thought experiments can be wrong this example shows how surprisingly effective they can be.

If you draw the wrong conclusion from your thought experiment you are still wrong.

For example I never debated that your level 20 tp guru was impossible. But you made an unwarranted and unproven conclusion from it.

I’m really getting tired of pointing out all the flaws in your arguments. There’s no meaningful discussion to be had.

your ability to reason, and apply knowledge, and make consistent arguments is flawed. good day sir.

Gewd.8125:

Cormac.3871:

Gewd.8125:

Cormac.3871:

The example was extreme, not the claim. That’s an important distinction.

If you make a claim based on an extreme example, your claim is just as weak. A sturdy house on a shaky foundation is not sturdy.

No, extreme examples are pretty common in thought experiments. One is not going to object to Einstein “I am sorry, but your thought experiment involving light passing through an elevator which is travelling at close to the speed of light is such an extreme example that there is no reason for us to take your ideas of relativity seriously.” One would also not object to Galileo that “Having two objects stay exactly next to each other as they fall is really, really unlikely so there is no need to consider your idea that objects of different weights fall at the same rate.”

The reason extreme examples are often used in thought experiments is that it helps to make obvious trends that might otherwise go unnoticed. The extreme examples in my thought experiment is that the player produced practically nothing and consumed materials. This was mainly done mainly to tease out confusing data caused by doing the sort of farming that most TP savvy players also do (“let us assume that the player is a spherical object in a vacuum” as it were). The conclusion I drew that having consumption exceed production has an inflationary effect is I would have thought, pretty uncontroversial. I was by no means arguing that all players who make most of their money on the TP cause inflation, I was just pointing out an inflationary effect that you have consistently ignored.

First of all you aren’t Einstein.

These thought experiments are used to see if their theories don’t have any inconsistencies. They are not used to prove theories.

Einstein had a paper (EPR) which was 100% based on thought experiments. Most physicists didn’t buy it. And guess what? It was proved wrong by empirical evidence by this guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Aspect

Please just stop with these ridiculous arguments.

Im no genius, but the link you posted actually says he proved EPR right.

“In the early 1980s, while working on his PhD thesis¹ from the lesser academic rank of lecturer, he performed the elusive “Bell test experiments” that showed that Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen’s reductio ad absurdum of quantum mechanics, namely that it implied ‘ghostly action at a distance’, did in fact appear to be realised when two particles were separated by an arbitrarily large distance (see EPR paradox)"

GuzziHero.2467:

Rapier.3675:

no point? ppl had great server communities. we knew which guild is which so we knew how they work, who to avoid. /m chat was useful for any info, now is just spam with “smart” comments and word battles among english speaking players and none english. chat is full of hate most of the time. A LOT gold seller spammers everywhere. trying to make a farm party fails to the point u don’t give a kitten anymore… and so on.

You misunderstand I think. I mean, why do we have home worlds when we are all mixed together like alphabetti spaghetti. If they want to keep Megaserver, they may as well end home servers altogether.

i think servers as you knew them before are essentially useless, and mean virtually nothing.
That said i think megaservers actually do need some other grouping tool that fits the idea of a community. So may as well use servers for that. But since the community is no longer defined by location, they will need to come up with new meaning/identity/tools for community building through servers. I have seen nothing to suggest they will do this though.

lordkrall.7241:

I never understood all this “too late” thing.
That would basically imply that they should basically not even bother doing anything about it, because it won’t matter anyway.

well the too late thing has to do with the reality that they have already committed to and tested this plan. They put in time and money, and it may be awhile before they put in time and money again, even then there are certain things they would probably avoid doing after implementing megaservers that they may have done before implementing it.

Essentially megaserver solutions will most likely be low priority tweaks, rather than system altering things. We have wasted the large scale change they were willing to make with a questionable path.

That said, i think a lot of people are blind to the strengths of the megaserver. It solves one of the big fears anet especially has about empty zones. Theoretically now they can make as much new content as they want without canabalizing zones.

It has some strengths, but it is half baked, they still need to do some big changes to get it to jel well with their gameworld.

• They need to create new meaning for servers (this is probably a large change)
• They need to let the megaserver create groups that almost always stay together
• they need to come up with a system that works better with dynamic events/dynamic world and gives some level of permanance <—- this is the most difficult and time consuming issue, which i dont think they will ever solve. Fact is we probably have lost the potential for a dynamic world here, at least one you can go back to.

Essentially it needs a lot of work to integrate well into the world, but we dont even know if they intend to solve these issues. I think their hope is to come up with an algorithm, but that cannot solve many of the issues that megaserver created.

and the other issue, the problem with the “we are observing and working on it approach”, i think they need more user feedback in their actual developmental process. Many of the solutions they have come up with have fallen short of their intended goals, or miss the scope of the problem.

the reason people are so apprehensive about just letting them fix problems with no feedback, is because then we get a big feature patch which is not really making people feel the game is better than it was before.

Djinn.9245:

I think that the fact that this subject keeps occurring means that it is of concern to people. However, many people in this thread are caught-up in the word “skimpy”.

I think that all of the currently-available armor should stay because I don’t care if some people like to dress their characters in a more “social” rather than “practical” manner.

But just as characters should be able to dress socially, some people would like to dress their characters more practically. There are currently very few armor sets that are something you would actually wear into battle or adventuring. I’m not saying the armor should be dirty or banged-up. You can have chest and leg pieces that are nice-looking but also provide good coverage for adventuring. And don’t have a skirt (which is highly impractical)!

You will have to define what you mean by practical.

i mean light armor really has no part in practicality, they just call it light armor by convention, it is clothes, and is primarily defined by not being armor. I suppose one could say it should be like jeans and a tshirt, but thats only really more practical from a cleaning standpoint, skirts, or jeans, neither will stop a sword or a bullet or fire spell.

medium armor, is basically “light armor” its clothes that considers some for of defense, but not necessarily uniform i its standard. just putting mettle plates onto clothes in key areas/chosen areas amounts to medium armor. Its main function would be to provide some protection with minimal effect on movement.

but how would you define a practical armor?

Behellagh.1468:

Except the price recover shows that shenanigans like this doesn’t work even with luxury items with limited supply generation. A week later, price back where it was, even lower, than just before the spike occurred.

I don’t disagree that there’s inflation, or that wealth can be concentrated among an “upper class”, just that such on obvious attempt of manipulation can’t last long in a market with this many players as long as the “spice flows” supply entering the market is relatively constant. Patience is the key when using the market.

“Yeah, yeah, patience. How long will that take?”

well glass half empty glass half full, it shows that they cannot alter the prices forever, but it shows they can alter the prices when they need/want to for long enough to make big money.
Whether on purpose or not, it shows that given the right circumstances, prices can influenced solely by controllable factors in small markets, it took like a week to stabilize, and in that time a decent amount of dusks were sold at a price much greater than market value, which is actually the perfect result if you were a theoretical manipulator, pump and dump. it going back down is the perfect result because it shows you actually got away with something, rather than just selling something for what the market really says its worth.
And you can do it again.

you are right patience is the key, probably the whole key to the whole market even in other ways. The problem though is they draw you into the gamble, a buyer has to wonder, am i getting scammed, or is this the new price? Because sometimes, the prices dont go back down.

Eh well thats business, a game of how bad do you want it. TP is PVP.

laokoko.7403:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fotfw/The-hidden-truth-about-the-Chaos-of-Lyssa/first#post4080172

Whenever someone blame flippers for expensive price, flippers of the forum will unite and tell them they are wrong.

Now, someone is blaming the price of Chaos of Lyssa on flippers.

Flippers of the forum unite and tell him flippers are awesome for the economy!

flippers dont cause the higher prices exactly, they just find out when the price could be higher.

Essentially a flipper can only sell an item if someone thinks its worth it, but its their business to push the limits of what is worth it. Without flippers, it would have been a long time before people could figure out how much someone is willing to pay for item.

basically in this game, flipper take advantage of impatience, irl, they usually take advantage of connections, and knowing who needs what and how valuable it could be to the right person.

So yeah, they dont make the value, but they push it so that it so that one finds the current price point faster. In general they raise the prices of items by doing so, but only to the limits that the market will allow.

CC Danicia.1394:

Hello all,

Just a quick note to let you know that we still have a dedicated team working on improving the megaserver issues.

As many have said, the fact that people are working on it is nice, but doesnt address the real question
what are they working on?

anet has yet to communicate what they consider to be issues/problems and what are not, they have yet to communicate what their vision for the future of megaservers, or even servers in general is now.

anabasis.7346:

maha.7902:

snip

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to some folks in here, it’s futile. As well as the dungeon subforum has the anti-stacking-anti-zerker crowd who think that PVE takes no skill, this subforum gets its fair share of anti-tp conspiracy theorists who believe that playing the tp requires no skill whatsoever and that price increases in every market are controlled by a minority of tp barons whose only goal is to get richer and ruin everyone else’s experience in the game.
In the end, it all boils down to criticizing those who are skilled in what they do, because it makes them feel better with themselves as they haven’t succeeded in anything.

except the post he was commenting on was a person who did basically everything in PVE that requires time or mastery.

Also as one of the people talking about legendaries and TP focus being to great, i have played the TP and i have gotten legendaries. You theory that it is just jealousy is false.

Vol.7601:

laokoko.7403:

wonder how much chaos of lyssa will be selling for after the event. Assuming the drop rate isn’t changed.

I wager all the rich people who actually want the recipe have bought it by now.

Future prices will be pushed by speculators.

Who knows how high…

well mathematcally? we see vanity items which are posted/sold for trade 24-30 times a day going for 900 gold, this item seems to be about 5 to 10 times rarer? and appears to be limited time?
could see some crazy prices, I think some limited minis in GW1 went for insane amounts.

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

Im not saying how they should perform their gender, im saying they should not depower their sex.
(snip)
as for the boobplate male version
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Museo_archeologico_regionale_paolo_orsi%2C_corazza_in_bronzo%2C_da_tomba_5_necropoli_della_fossa%2C_370-340_ac._01.JPG/458px-Museo_archeologico_regionale_paolo_orsi%2C_corazza_in_bronzo%2C_da_tomba_5_necropoli_della_fossa%2C_370-340_ac._01.JPG

this serves absolutely no purpose at all other than to shout i am an idealized male/can afford to make/buy armor like that, much like the female boob armor.

Cool. Let’s bring in male nipple plate then. I personally don’t care for it, but I’m sure someone would like it. Thanks for adding it to the stack. Interesting that the presence of nipples makes it vanity plate.

On depowering – again, it can feel insulting to be blamed for this when there is so much structurally done to determine how power is distributed across genders. The point that I and others have advocated has been to ask for more options – for male characters to be able to wear more revealing clothing, and for female characters to have access to the male designs of gear so they can share in the same content.

We should always have the option to opt out of roles prescribed by society – whether a guy wants to wear something frilly and lacy or short and sexy, or a gal wants to wear something that she feels comfortable and proficient in. It’s unfair and demeaning to tell women that they should wear their boob plate and enjoy it and find a way to feel empowered because that is what their gender must do. Why can’t we just support the many types of efforts by people to build the sort of image for themselves that they want instead of hoarding opportunities away?

“Sure (Fred Astaire) was great, but don’t forget that Ginger Rogers did everything he did, …backwards and in high heels.”

and as far as the male nipple plate what makes it vanity isnt the nipples, is that none of the contouring and shaping does anything to help prevent dmg to the user. It falls to aesthetics, not to function, it actually increases the cost, and as others have said guides the edges to certain places. Point is, why is vanity chestplate considered powerful, but boobplate considered weak? perception.

like i said, i have no problem with options, I was telling a different poster that saying skimpy/sexual/frilly clothes is not awesome, not cool or detrimental to children is villifying all those things. Im not saying one must wear naked clothes or be a problem, im saying that you shouldnt villify the option to dress/appear a certain way, Especially on things that for some people would be natural.

As far as having options, you do have options, skimpy/sexy clothes are not the norm, they are the exception. you are looking at something like 20-5% of the options available. I agree there could be more options, i personally just want more cool looking stuff, sexy or not. much of what is available doesnt tickle my fancy, its all subjective, so the only real method of giving people more of what they want is more options and greater variation

Zalyn.9534:

In short, please stop dictating to people how they should perform their gender under the guise of being more effective at challenging stereotypes. You are reinforcing a very narrow view of gendering and then telling those who disagree with you to stay in that box you made.

Im not saying how they should perform their gender, im saying they should not depower their sex. see the key here is forget the stereotype, do your own thing. Dont look at one thing and say its wrong. This is not just a gender thing, this is a classic pitfall of all of it.
for example, when you see a game that has an option for black people to have rounder butts, fuller lips, afros, etc, you could get mad that they are stereotyping black people, who dont all have these features, but when you start getting to the point that you cant stand seeing it, and want more options that look like the “cool” whiter options. I think you need to step back and say, hmm is this really healthy?

See if gear that accentuates breasts is bad, you are implying breasts are bad, If gear that accentuates curves is bad, you are implying curves are bad.

Now there is a danger when you start to empower certain features that you make people who dont exemplify those features feel less powerful. So i suggest you empower everyone. The thin lady with boobs is lithe, the thick lady is powerful, comforting, the muscular lady is athletic. Point is, like the skin you are in, don’t hate on other peoples choices, or natures.

and im not trying to trick or win an argument, i am saying this because i find it disturbing when i see people essentially saying its wrong to be something just because of their own foibles. Its all good to ask for options, its another to say certain options are bad.

as for the boobplate male version
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Museo_archeologico_regionale_paolo_orsi%2C_corazza_in_bronzo%2C_da_tomba_5_necropoli_della_fossa%2C_370-340_ac._01.JPG/458px-Museo_archeologico_regionale_paolo_orsi%2C_corazza_in_bronzo%2C_da_tomba_5_necropoli_della_fossa%2C_370-340_ac._01.JPG

this serves absolutely no purpose at all other than to shout i am an idealized male/can afford to make/buy armor like that, much like the female boob armor.

maha.7902:

SoPP.7034:

I currently sit on 18k+ AP.

I have the Dungeon Master title.

I have a high lvl FotM rating.

I have a wolf rank in PvP,

I have 100k kills in WvW.

I even beat Liadri down.

I have no legendary.

I don’t deserve a legendary, but given my time and effort in the game I deserve meaningful progression towards one. Progression towards one by the fact I PLAY THE ACTUAL GAME.

Getting lucky or grinding out a bunch of gold does not seem legendary to me, so I don’t do it.

The fact is that ANet make MONEY from rl purchases. That’s the biggest issue here and why we are stuck in this sorry state for Legendary acquisition.

Multiple legendary holders are anything but skilled players.

Wow, such a good player. Please tell us more about how wvw kills and PvP rank which you can just farm, liadri which takes almost zero skill, dungeon master which you can just buy and fotm rank which you can just be carried through are demonstrations of skill.

and how does Tp playing show any more skill? or lottery winning from the mystic forge.

Chadramar.8156:

phys.7689:

By trying to fight sexualization, you further cement it.

So opposing a problem is always the same as supporting it, or does it only apply when the problem is aimed at women?

You have decided that frills, and highlighting boobs is sexualization. Its really not.

In our current culture, yes it is.

Why is a man being half naked a muscle powered fantasy and a woman being half naked sexualization?

If you’re quoting me, please quote me properly. I’m was talking about the difference in design and presentation between a muscular guy who maybe only has his shirt off on one hand and a scrawny girl with inflated breasts and a bikini on the other. That difference exists and it is huge. Which character signifies strength, competence, power, potency? The guy. Which character is designed to be impressive and kickarse, respected and maybe even feared? The guy. He can also be sexually appealing if muscles are your thing and if he shows enough skin, but that’s not all there is to him.

1)(with regards to the fight against steroptypes/norms conundrum)
its a common thing, when people seek to break sterotypes/ideas about a people or culture, they sometimes end up creating a similar situation, with a different motivation. you are basically implying that showing boobs/legs/curvy form fitting clothes is some how inferior or wrong. The people who get mad at women and think they are messing up women kind socially by dressing in suggestive ways are duplicating the experience of men telling them not to be sexy and to cover up that was the norm not so long ago. If you are not one of those people, fine, but then dont do it here in game either. sexy clothes are only an option, at most 20% of any armor set.
2)(with regards to frills accents on boobs and other such cultural things)
If you are going to define yourself by your culture, you will always be a slave to what other people see and think. People can force you to live, or rebel against their standards, which is just another means of control. What if the culture start sexualizing blue as a woman’s color, the color of sexual readiness. Would you then abandon blue if its the color you have loved most? the color of your family crest? If the answer is yes, then you are just as much a victim of the culture as the women who feel forced to wear blue to appeal to the culture, because the culture has forced you not to be yourself.
3) the muscle fantasy male and the naked boobed girl.
See here is the difference in perception. You think the dude is powerful strong and kickarse because that what society has conditioned you to think. There is no difference between the dude in speedos and the chick in the bikini other than your perception of what it means. The difference? they have empowered the differences so that they feel good when they see it, where you have not. Muscles, V shaped body types, they make you feel like that is strength competence, power and kickarse. Why is a similarly outrageous female form(neither of these is the norm) not kickarse? not powerful? not capable?
perfect example, the infamous boob plate, its uneccesarry finery that doesnt help in battle, you see it as a negative that it reinforces femaleness, however the same man chestplate, which creates a perfect male, idealized chest was also very popular and just as useless, which they saw as showing might and power.
essentially they celebrate their maleness which empowers them
you want to marginalize femaleness which depowers females.
they have set up the perfect lose lose scenario,

you can only beat it by breaking the paradigm.

Vol.7601:

TP isn’t high risk? Well I just completed the most high risk flip of all time.

OF ALL TIME

I bought a chaos recipe for 1500g (luck enough to get a buy order in the first place)
I then was able to flip it 10 hours later at 2550g.

That’s a grand profit of 668G.

It was risky because of Anet possibly hotfixing it (which I have been telling everyone to be careful of).

However seeing as we are heading into the weekend, the risk of this happening was pretty minimal.

In retrospect, I should have done this last Friday for the long weekend.
Buy orders have now gone up to 100g.

http://i.imgur.com/PsYvFJU.jpg

I’m not going to do this again, so feel free to fight over that recipe

If this holds, the item is a lot rarer than a precursor, isnt really that crazy. That said i cant see data for it on gw2spidy, whats up with that.

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

So basically within a week it’s virtually at the same price as before the spike.

This must be the doing of a super rich cartel of samaritans, that stocked up on precursors early in the game or keep forging day and night and whenever precursors run out of supply by popular demand of the general player base, they just put new ones onto the tp, undercutting each other, to lower prices.

I cant think of any other reason, why the price would go down, must be market manipulation.

well, i didnt think it would drop down this fast, which is actually more disturbing. It presents the possibility that the precursor market is slow and suceptible to forced scarcities.

still possible there was a micro boost in demand, but yeah, if the price stayed high it would just have showed there was a new market value, and some people pushed it.

pdavis.8031:

@lordkrall

Pretty much.

@ OP

I thought it was a bad idea to put all your eggs in one basket? I certainly don’t feel Anet or NCSoft is doing this with season 2. And if you are feeling unsatisfied with the direction the game is going, perhaps this game isn’t for you. Not trying to be snarky or anything, but if you aren’t enjoying it, it’s time to move on to something else. And banking on an update to provide what you are looking for, probably means this game just doesn’t have what you are looking for…Just something to think about.

Telling the op to leave the game if he doesn’t like season 2 is pointless that’s exactly what he said he ld do. The op is saying he wants season 2 to be a better representation of gw2 potential than s1

Stephen McBeaven.5640:

phys.7689:

As much as the the lovers gonna hate. I think its actually a sentiment a lot of people share. I wont say last, but the coming seasons/features/content will decide for a lot of people how engaged they will be in this game for sometime.

Regardless of whether it’s a sentiment that a lot of people share or a sentiment that only a few people share, it’s a useless forum post with no substance.

The substance is people are looking for more substantial/better quality from season 2 or they probably won’t be around much. That’s feedback

cinderfairie.7298:

First, I am trying to fix a big goof. I am new to the game and I got a free set of armor with my game purchase. It is account bound and I picked one that I can’t wear with my profession! Is there anything I can do with it? Sell it anywhere? Something!?

I also have really the same question for all these soul bound trophy items I pick. I have been having to destroy them to make room for my inventory. I can’t find anyplace to sell them, am I missing something?

if an item has no sell value, and is marked trophy, it is probably turn in item for a heart quest, if you did the related heart you can trash it.

far as getting the wrong gear, you can save it for another charachter, if its a gem store armor, you can unlock it before you trash the skin (i think) by right clicking then unlocking the armor.

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

“but drawing attention to it via frills or fishnets or boob windows or whatever also plays a part in objectification/sexualization. Plus, there’s the frequently huge difference in theme and design, especially with light armor. [b]Men get the default, the original theme. Women get something that screams “LOOK A FEMALE!” which may end up looking very different or even nothing like the cool original male design.”[/b]

this implies, boob windows, and frills are bad, and are objectification/sexualization

implies something is wrong with gear that screams “LOOK A FEMALE” (why is this bad?)

implies “cool original male design” that the male designs are some how cooler due to them not being too “female” frilly.

I disagree with your interpretation. The quoted poster is consistent with the concern about different treatment and gives specific examples of what bothers them. The default armor for males does not scream “I’M A MAN”; it focuses on a particular theme. Some players of female avatars would like to have something focusing on the theme rather than on sexual characteristics (and I mean this biologically, as in sex, vs gender) of the avatar. See examples of Halloween costumes for an illustration of this effect: http://www.pleated-jeans.com/2012/10/11/comparing-male-and-female-halloween-costumes-22-pics/

The boob windows and fishnets are used as a way to signal femininity and sexual availability – as argued by some earlier, those are specifically feminine clothing styles that are “weird” on men’s bodies. When those are just added to a theme, they disrupt the continuity of the theme. Meanwhile, in the above example of the water-themed armor, literal fish nets could be entirely appropriate and have a place on both the male and female versions – those would not be using fish nets as indicators of sexuality, but instead would support the theme of the ocean.

phys.7689:

Even though the poster says, they dont mind, they are also saying the do mind, they dont want to see all of these clothes they find to be too sexualized/frilly/feminine. They talk about a lack of choice, but there is a lot of choice in that regard.

i understand wanting more options you like, but they make it seem like some options are socially wrong and dangerous.

They are pointing to these as evidence of their primary concern, that female and male gear differs so much that they don’t feel like the same gear, and that the reasons given claim objectivity but are actually demonstrating a particular conception of what makes female bodies and how they should be indicated/flagged. It is reasonable to feel excluded from some content that is supposed to be equal (gender isn’t supposed to have an impact on play other than a few dialogue differences, which I really enjoyed seeing) but that isn’t. If anything, that is the socially dangerous and upsetting factor, not the mere existence of costumes someone can (and probably would) just decline to use.

Also, I have seen quite a few people (you too, I recall) claim that wanting to include more revealing and sexy outfits for males is dangerous and socially wrong and detrimental to the game without any reason other than “it costs more” and “I think it’s grody.”

i dont think sexy outfits for males are dangerous and socialy wrong, i just think its important to draw distinctions between skimpy and things that go against the culture. While i dont oppose going against the culture either, i think its a different argument.

As far as the money issue, i dont say it as a justification, i m just saying the reality is they apparently are really tight with the armor. People have suggested more armor for fractals, content, etc, and they always say things like:
Armor is really development intensive, and we cant justify those costs. The implication is that they wont do much armor unless they think the game demands it, or they think people will spend a lot of money on it.

anyhow, if im interpreting the user incorrectly that fine, i just hope they dont run around shaming charachters based on how they look, or seeking to erase peoples choices to be overly frilly/feminine sexualized if they desire it.

As much as the the lovers gonna hate. I think its actually a sentiment a lot of people share. I wont say last, but the coming seasons/features/content will decide for a lot of people how engaged they will be in this game for sometime.

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

All in your head isnt dismissive. The things that are in your head are the hardest to deal with. I also agree that many peoples other idea are in their head. But that poster is trying to fight a battle of ideas, of freedom, and equality. However, the poster is less tolerant than many of the people they are fighting against. Many people who want “sexy” armor arent against non sexy armor existing, or putting labels or negativity on people who arent following their style choices. If a player wants to wear boob tkitteno be it (male or female) if they want to wear an all consuming cloak, so be it. But i dont see the benefit of villifying an appearance.

But they didn’t put negativity on sexy armor. I quote:

What’s “offensive” to me, incidentally, is not that sexualized outfits exist or that people use them or how popular they are. It’s the difference in treatment of the genders and the excuses made for it.

They specifically want more tolerance and options, not fewer, as do I and some others.

“but drawing attention to it via frills or fishnets or boob windows or whatever also plays a part in objectification/sexualization. Plus, there’s the frequently huge difference in theme and design, especially with light armor. Men get the default, the original theme. Women get something that screams “LOOK A FEMALE!” which may end up looking very different or even nothing like the cool original male design.”

this implies, boob windows, and frills are bad, and are objectification/sexualization

implies something is wrong with gear that screams “LOOK A FEMALE” (why is this bad?)

implies “cool original male design” that the male designs are some how cooler due to them not being too “female” frilly.

Even though the poster says, they dont mind, they are also saying the do mind, they dont want to see all of these clothes they find to be too sexualized/frilly/feminine. They talk about a lack of choice, but there is a lot of choice in that regard.

i understand wanting more options you like, but they make it seem like some options are socially wrong and dangerous.

Faowri.4159:

phys.7689:

well i think you should shout out things, but i dont think shouting that this armor shouldnt exist is the best bet, the best bet is shouting out what armor should exist.

That’s exactly what I do. I’ve never, ever asked for armour to be removed from the game. I’ve never, ever said “don’t make this armour available to people anymore because I personally don’t like it”. Even my sig thread just says “If the female/male versions are so different they don’t look alike, turn it into two sets instead of one gender-imbalanced one”.

My stance is this: I respect people’s preferences, so if they want to wear conservative armour, that’s cool. If they want to wear revealing armour, that’s cool. But they should never be forced into extremes, particularly revealing armour (see: female scholar starting armour), and these options should not be dependent on gender (e.g. revealing armour being only/mostly available to female characters).

So my complaints pretty much every time new gemstore armour is release tend to be “The female version is nice, too bad I can’t wear it on my male character” or vice versa. It’s frustrating and it has kept my money from reaching Anet on a multitude of occasions. Ridiculous toggles (female head on a male body, seriously? That’s an answer? 9_9 ) are not the solution. More intelligent and thoughtful armour design is.

best answer is probably more designers (every designer has their own biases) and more armors. But thats pretty expensive so unfortunately we wont see it.
Unlesss… Perhaps…

game companies began selling graphic design developers the ability to make gear for their games and profit.
say a designer could get a royalty for every sold piece.
i wonder if it would be profitable for the designers/modelers…

Gibson.4036:

I want more options with the amount of skimpy we have now. People say there are plenty of skimpy armor options for women, especially among light armor designs, but have you ever tried to feature your Sylvari’s bioluminescence?

The Sylvari glow, which is a wonderful element of their design, is found on their arms, legs, and back. Now go try on some of the “skimpy armor”. You’ll find that ArenaNet’s designers seem to have a thing for exposing the midriff, where there is no bioluminescence, while covering the arms with long gloves and sleeves, the legs with skirts and long boots. Even on the midriff-exposing designs, there is often material across the back, leaving only the stomach exposed.

As for my male Sylvari, there are two heavy, gladiator-style designs that expose the back, and only a couple of heavy designs that show any leg, and it’s a very small amount. Male light armor has one torso-revealing design, but just like the female designs, it exposes the front, while completely covering the back.

i think charr as well need some more options with less clothes, designed around their charachter, they have fur/designs, and mostly they throw themselves in useless human focused gears which tend to make them look odd, instead of designs which accentuate their strengths.

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

This may kitten you off, but i think the problem with this type of thinking is that its all a matter of perspective. By trying to fight sexualization, you further cement it. You have decided that frills, and highlighting boobs is sexualization. Its really not. A culture can fully cloth and cover women, and then that will become sexualization within that culture. They will talk about the way her clothes hides every bit of her natural form, and accentuates her sexiest features in the face and the eyes. They will say it is masculine to wear nothing, or frills. or whatever. Also male light armor also blatantly screams I AM A MAN.

as far as male sexualization that is in your mind as well. Why is a man being half naked a muscle powered fantasy and a woman being half naked sexualization? its in your own mind. Its not objective. before you can free society from its problems, you first would have to free yourself.

Also you have to ask your self, is sexualization even wrong?

I find this language a bit offensive – there are so many universals thrown out in this discussion about what is sexy and what isn’t, but when someone presents a different perspective (that is not isolated), you accuse it of all being “in their head.” I’m sure you didn’t intend it, but that type of language has been used a great deal in the past to demean what people, often women, said because they were perceived as stupid, overly emotional, or just not in touch with reality.

Many of the universal claims in this thread from the “majority opinion” also are “in their heads” but rather than argue that, many are just asking for more options across the spectrum without demeaning those who want to look at boobs or female thighs.

All in your head isnt dismissive. The things that are in your head are the hardest to deal with. I also agree that many peoples other idea are in their head. But that poster is trying to fight a battle of ideas, of freedom, and equality. However, the poster is less tolerant than many of the people they are fighting against. Many people who want “sexy” armor arent against non sexy armor existing, or putting labels or negativity on people who arent following their style choices. If a player wants to wear boob tkitteno be it (male or female) if they want to wear an all consuming cloak, so be it. But i dont see the benefit of villifying an appearance.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

phys.7689:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Zalyn.9534:

Celestina.2894:

Maliel.8362:

What i really would like to know is how many of the voters are actually women.

I honestly don’t see why it matters. There are many woman who like dressing their characters “skimpy” and many men who prefer more “practical” looks.

Agreed. And there are men who want to see more sexy and less-dressed men too!

I do wonder though if women who wanted to have more clothing options for female avatars would use the word “skimpy” or would prefer something else. I’ve seen “revealing” and “elegant” used, for example. I feel like “skimpy” carries some weird connotations.

Yeah. I don’t like the word skimpy. Sensual? Lol. I don’t know maybe revealing works.

I just want different armors. Everything just seems so contrived at the moment. I would have loved zodiac had they made It less blue. I just want something unique. There’s a thread in fan Gen where a person designed a water armor. She/he made the male version similar enough to the female that I was somewhat blown away. I wish we could get stuff like that.

For reference https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/fangen/Tidal-Armor-Light-Medium-and-Heavy/first#post3982907

i wish a game could have more fan generated designs

that said, i personally find the male one to be ehhh, but to each their own.

For all of the armor weights?

I just liked the concept and how the styles are so similar for both genders. Open chests and that sort of thing.

ah i didnt see the heavy male, id prefer no chest to the one she has, but its ok. Anyhow even if i dont like it doesnt mean they shouldnt stuff like it, just pointing out what i wouldnt wear.

Faowri.4159:

phys.7689:

essentially your biggest opponent right now, is probably not the players, but the bottom line(money aka what sells) Second opponent is the dispositions of the actual designers, even if they tried to make something you like, it may not hit home. I dont think most peoples fashion senses will ever be satisfied until some game formalizes player generated gears. Of course, if that did happen there would be a lot of bad points, as well the good points.

The trouble is that marketing is drowning in sexist ‘facts’ about what does and doesn’t sell. There are publishers out there who still actively rail against female game protagonists because when a game that happens to be female-led doesn’t do as well as expected, that is suddenly evidence that the whole gender is a write-off. This is the kind of marketing “fact” that dictates decisions like not providing male eye candy even if female eye candy is an acceptable thing. Don’t want to make that equally mythical completely straight-male userbase uncomfortable or anything!

I can’t honestly see what we can do better to combat this than to shout out what we want to see, pointing suggestively at our open purses. There is demand for this stuff. Some beautiful posts (and example images hurr) in this thread on the topic, too <3 I’m gonna run out of +1s at this rate. It’s . . . really heartening to see, I can’t lie. The only thing that would make me feel more cheerful about it would be an Anet response.

well i think you should shout out things, but i dont think shouting that this armor shouldnt exist is the best bet, the best bet is shouting out what armor should exist. And even better bet, is probably shouting for more variety and more unique armor designs.
However unique is pretty costly, its a lot cheaper to work with clothes that already have similar models/geometry.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Zalyn.9534:

Celestina.2894:

Maliel.8362:

What i really would like to know is how many of the voters are actually women.

I honestly don’t see why it matters. There are many woman who like dressing their characters “skimpy” and many men who prefer more “practical” looks.

Agreed. And there are men who want to see more sexy and less-dressed men too!

I do wonder though if women who wanted to have more clothing options for female avatars would use the word “skimpy” or would prefer something else. I’ve seen “revealing” and “elegant” used, for example. I feel like “skimpy” carries some weird connotations.

Yeah. I don’t like the word skimpy. Sensual? Lol. I don’t know maybe revealing works.

I just want different armors. Everything just seems so contrived at the moment. I would have loved zodiac had they made It less blue. I just want something unique. There’s a thread in fan Gen where a person designed a water armor. She/he made the male version similar enough to the female that I was somewhat blown away. I wish we could get stuff like that.

For reference https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/fangen/Tidal-Armor-Light-Medium-and-Heavy/first#post3982907

i wish a game could have more fan generated designs

that said, i personally find the male one to be ehhh, but to each their own.

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

The thing is anet wants to make designs that sell well, and they dont want to make designs that dont. based on their current metrics and expectations, they believe certain things will sell better for male charachters and certain for female charachters. They dont want to do what they see as a waste, and make a phalanx armor that looks the same as male, if people wont buy it. So they create a different looking armor, and give it the same name.

essentially your biggest opponent right now, is probably not the players, but the bottom line(money aka what sells) Second opponent is the dispositions of the actual designers, even if they tried to make something you like, it may not hit home. I dont think most peoples fashion senses will ever be satisfied until some game formalizes player generated gears. Of course, if that did happen there would be a lot of bad points, as well the good points.

Proof, please? When GW2 was in development, ANet made a big deal about how they wanted to give options for everyone and even showcased how there would be covered and skimpy options for male and female avatars. So if you’re going to make claims about ANet’s intentions and financial priorities, would you please give an article?

Part of the problem is that if options are never offered, then there is no way to determine whether people would like them or now. So for the sake of free market values, shouldn’t we have options put out there so that the players can decide and show their support for what they like? It’s likely that new options for revenue will come out of it, so it makes business sense.

anet is pretty stingy with armor, so they are probably going off expectation, and which armors are most popular in game. Some of this may not have to just do with skimpyness, it could be that human female teir 3 just looks better than their alternatives, however they think it does.

I am very certain that if anet thought an item was going to sell well, they would make it. I would applaud more options, but realistically we probably wont get that many different/unique armors, most of them will be model reworks and reskins.

Chadramar.8156:

My problem isn’t just the ones that are show a lot of skin. Just barely hiding something or mostly covering it but drawing attention to it via frills or fishnets or boob windows or whatever also plays a part in objectification/sexualization. Plus, there’s the frequently huge difference in theme and design, especially with light armor. Men get the default, the original theme. Women get something that screams “LOOK A FEMALE!” which may end up looking very different or even nothing like the cool original male design.

What’s “offensive” to me, incidentally, is not that sexualized outfits exist or that people use them or how popular they are. It’s the difference in treatment of the genders and the excuses made for it. I’d like people to try to understand how the neverending barrage of female sexualization and the glaring lack of diversity and choice can affect women and society’s opinion and treatment of women — and I’d especially like to make that request from those guys who feel uncomfortable or flat-out revolted by rare cases of actual make sexualization (not muscled power fantasies).

This may kitten you off, but i think the problem with this type of thinking is that its all a matter of perspective. By trying to fight sexualization, you further cement it. You have decided that frills, and highlighting boobs is sexualization. Its really not. A culture can fully cloth and cover women, and then that will become sexualization within that culture. They will talk about the way her clothes hides every bit of her natural form, and accentuates her sexiest features in the face and the eyes. They will say it is masculine to wear nothing, or frills. or whatever. Also male light armor also blatantly screams I AM A MAN.

as far as male sexualization that is in your mind as well. Why is a man being half naked a muscle powered fantasy and a woman being half naked sexualization? its in your own mind. Its not objective. before you can free society from its problems, you first would have to free yourself.

Also you have to ask your self, is sexualization even wrong?

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

notice i said what is a womens style by western cultures definition. There is no actual style that truely belongs to men or to women. However, culturally there are, but this is not objective, there is no universal sexy and universal male/female.

Actually, there are a lot of people who do try to argue that female bodies are universally more sexy / aesthetic than male ones across cultures.

Why are we sticking to Western culture? Surely there are many cultural / historical influences for costumes in the game? But okay, I’ll bite, here’s are some really perverse men in “feminine” lace, tights, high heels, and wigs in Western culture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Louis_XIV_of_France.jpg
http://historyofeuropeanfashion.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/baroqueman3.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Portrait_of_Charles_IX.jpg

ETA:

I just wanted to say I wish I could +1 your posts here more than once.

Seconded. Thank you for the great image resources! A friend of mine is a fashion designer, so they’ll love the inspiration.

As far as who is sexier? male or female? im biased and i know it, so my pov probably would not be relevant.

mostly im talking about western culture because that is the context of the forum, and most of the GW2 world. Like i said, i think your main point is you want more gear that blasts norms and tests the boundaries of fashion. like i said, “feminine” is defined by culture, its not objective, the pictures you show are essentially pointing out the same thing, western culture has changed over the years and will change again. And even when that happens, there will still probably be things that are defined as masculine, and feminine. Much like in that time period form fitting leggings, and pink were thought to be very masculine.(and wealthy)

kimeekat.2548:

phys.7689:

the problem with your theory is you want to apply the same type of ascetic to men and women, when it currently for most people is not the same.

… what. Skimpy is skimpy, whether it’s on a guy or girl. There’s no difference in aesthetic there. I mean, yeah I find guys in suits hot and girls in ballgowns hot too, but we are talking about skimpiness here. Gimme some kitten chaps or some low slung pants on a guy, some crotch pouches or barely there shirts. Show off those arms and muscled legs. I’d love to know what survey said people attracted to men don’t find men’s bodies sexy.

phys.7689:

Skimpy, you can define as how much flesh is covered, but what you are talking about has no definition, you just want to put men in the same thing as women to prove a point, but its not really proving anything but that men and women dress differently irrelevant to sexiness.

What they are talking about is equality in skimpiness, shorthanded in the thread down to “sexiness” sometimes. Yes, we do want to put men in the same thing as women (and vice versa! Phalanx armor, for example. Put the male phalanx armor on women). “It’s not really proving anything but that men and women dress differently irrelevant to sexiness” This is ridiculous. We’re not talking about how men and women dress themselves, we’re talking about how armor designers dress men and women video game characters. I don’t know many women who dress themselves in just panties and a bra to go to the office or grab starbucks (the beach or a pool is obviously different), or many soldiers who slap on a bikini and a gun, and yet here we are. For people who like to throw out the “it’s a fantasy, of course they’d wear underwear to battle” arguments, it’s funny how that line of thought just doesn’t apply to the male characters.

phys.7689:

look at this gw1 armor
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080827201205/gw_/images/1/17/Monk_Star_Armor_M_gray_front.jpg

almost all naked, and yet i dont think it even really comes across as sexy.
The reality is, its all in your head, my head, etc. What you dont really like is that people are dressing charachters in ways you find offensive, but thats impossible to police. They have a great number (more than they have skimpy) of armors that are fully clothed. People just like the skimpy ones on average. Blame the people, not the designers.

You’re right. They’re half naked and covered in tattoos but it’s not necessarily sexy or objectifying. You know what aids that line of thought? Showing the female version alongside it. They are both mostly nude but for thick cloth underwear – not just underwear but underwear with modesty loincloths over the form-fitting element. They are both equally skimpy and the armor looks like the same exact set. There is beautiful detail and intricate care taken in the tattoo portion of that armor (I love that and Labyrinthine armor from GW1, favorite sets of mine). That is a wonderful example of male and female skimpiness equality

What we don’t like is an armor set that is supposedly the same looking radically different on males and females, usually in favor of more skin on the females. I do blame the designers for that, not the players. I have skimpy armor on some of my ladies. I don’t understand why I can’t do the same for my men or why people are telling me no one finds it attractive when there are people here flat out telling you that they do.

The thing is anet wants to make designs that sell well, and they dont want to make designs that dont. based on their current metrics and expectations, they believe certain things will sell better for male charachters and certain for female charachters. They dont want to do what they see as a waste, and make a phalanx armor that looks the same as male, if people wont buy it. So they create a different looking armor, and give it the same name.

essentially your biggest opponent right now, is probably not the players, but the bottom line(money aka what sells) Second opponent is the dispositions of the actual designers, even if they tried to make something you like, it may not hit home. I dont think most peoples fashion senses will ever be satisfied until some game formalizes player generated gears. Of course, if that did happen there would be a lot of bad points, as well the good points.

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

i am not policing anything, i am pointing out that the picture is not about skimpy or not skimpy, the picture is about wanting to dress men in womens styles, which is a fine argument, but dont conflate it with skimpyness. gladiator is just as skimpy as the posted picture. GW1 monk is even more skimpy than the posted picture. Be clear in what you mean, if you want men in what is considered by western culture to be women’s clothes, that is a totally different issue.

and dont try to assign values to what i say, that i didnt say.

im just speaking logically,
IF people in fact see skimpy armor everywhere they look, AND it turns out skimpy armor represents 10-20% of any armor classes choice, the implication is players (and i wont assume anything about these players) are selecting the skimpier armor.

First, I don’t see the cosplayer as dressing in “women’s style,” he transformed what was a costume on a female character into a pretty interesting masculine version. I don’t see him as “feminine” in that picture – he looks like he’s ready to kick some serious tail – and I don’t understand why covering up his nipples makes it a “women’s style” per se. He also is visually appealing in a way that isn’t commonly seen in men, which is why I posted it – to open up discussion and possibilities. Quite a few people here do find it interesting.

Second, why are people who are not okay with his costume okay with gladiator costumes? Yes, there is something besides skimpyness going on…

Third, you may be speaking in a logical fashion, but you are inaccurate because you are making a portion of the gamer population representative of the whole when that does not fit the data nor the comments in this thread indicating that many would like to see skimpy and sexy outfits for male characters. I am also speaking logically in pointing out the inconsistencies in the realism arguments, the possibility arguments, and the visual appeal arguments.

notice i said what is a womens style by western cultures definition. There is no actual style that truely belongs to men or to women. However, culturally there are, but this is not objective, there is no universal sexy and universal male/female.

As for if the dude is dressing in a womans style, or just trying to make an interesting design, i will go with a womans style, because he is specifically trying to make his costume look like a specific charachters costume(almost verbatim). But thats up for debate, i have no idea what his motivation/vision is. Regardless, i wouldnt care if they added armor of this type, as long as they added more armor styles overall.

As for why they are ok with gladiator but not his armor? because like i said, its not an issue of skimpyness, its a case of going up against cultural norms. If your goal is to go up against cultural norms, then that is totally different argument. Which is not to say you cant make the argument, just dont try to lump it in with skimpyness, its not really that related.

3rd i am being logical and accurate, i am not discussing differences in population gender/orientation because none of us have that data. The data you speak about in this thread is not even there. You have people of all backgrounds asking for different things. some women want skimpy men like gladiator, some men want ffxiv for males, some women want neither. You are the one who are misrepresenting people, i am not going to make claims about what straight men, or straight women or gay men or gay women want, that would be stereotyping people and making assumptions about their values based on sex/orientation.

Speak for yourself, you have some valid points, but dont try to claim straight men want this, or straight women want that, you have no idea what everyone else wants.
Saying you want some culture defying fashions for males is fine, but dont frame it as an orientation/gender thing. Make real arguments based on real data/reasoning/ideals

Lankybrit.4598:

Hi,

I’m sitting about 50g now and want to buy some gems. But I refuse to buy them when I get less than 100 gems for each 10g. Last night it would just not get to that level. For my 50, it was 490, 497, 495… etc and never above 500.

So, get off your Duff and buy some gems with cash so that I get above 50 for my 50g.

Please.

they dont have to just buy gems, they have to buy gems and turn it into gold.
But why would they do that unless they are making a legendary? the bulk of new gear/items are in the cash shop

So tell anet to put more things in game, so people want to shortcut them and get gold.

Zalyn.9534:

phys.7689:

The reality is, its all in your head, my head, etc. What you dont really like is that people are dressing charachters in ways you find offensive, but thats impossible to police. They have a great number (more than they have skimpy) of armors that are fully clothed. Straight male gamers just like the skimpy ones on female characters on average. Blame the people, not the designers.

Fixed that for you. It seemed that they just wanted an option to dress a male character in a skimpy outfit too, yet you are policing their desire to do that. Why? Unless your (corrected) statement really was intended to be universal – that most gamers of all sorts want skimpy outfits on all types of avatars – then you’re just promoting one perspective over others.

i am not policing anything, i am pointing out that the picture is not about skimpy or not skimpy, the picture is about wanting to dress men in womens styles, which is a fine argument, but dont conflate it with skimpyness. gladiator is just as skimpy as the posted picture. GW1 monk is even more skimpy than the posted picture. Be clear in what you mean, if you want men in what is considered by western culture to be women’s clothes, that is a totally different issue.

and dont try to assign values to what i say, that i didnt say.

im just speaking logically,
IF people in fact see skimpy armor everywhere they look, AND it turns out skimpy armor represents 10-20% of any armor classes choice, the implication is players (and i wont assume anything about these players) are selecting the skimpier armor.

Chadramar.8156:

I voted #5, but what I really want to vote for is “No gendered armor at all, each outfit should be the same for both genders”.

Demented Sheep.1642:

Funny of “attractive in different ways” tends to mean guys don’t get sexualized overtly and instead get ‘strong’.
Guess what? a lot of girls would like that “forced equality”. If we have deal with your kitten you should deal with ours.

Bullseye! Thank you.

No, (straight) dudes, a heavily muscled guy who maybe has his shirt off is NOT sexualized in the same manner as a scrawny slip of a girl with inflated boobs, heels and frilly underwear.

Larynx.2453:

Uh yeah. There’s a reason ArenaNet doesn’t have armor like that in this game. That looks kittening ridiculous.

So a half-naked man (un)dressed to look “sexy” is ridiculous, while half-naked women (un)dressed to look “sexy” are par on course. That is exactly the problem. We’re pretty much brainwashed from birth to not only accept but demand ridiculous, objectifying and even degrading images from women.

If you don’t like seeing a dude made up like that, it should be a wake-up call of how the hetero male gaze that we’re supposed to think of as the natural default treats women. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander. If it isn’t, something’s messed up.

By all means, people should be able to have and enjoy their skimpy “armor” — for both genders. An outfit that looks like flamboyantly decorated lingerie on the girls should be a flamboyantly decorated banana hammock on the boys.

the problem with your theory is you want to apply the same type of ascetic to men and women, when it currently for most people is not the same.
Skimpy, you can define as how much flesh is covered, but what you are talking about has no definition, you just want to put men in the same thing as women to prove a point, but its not really proving anything but that men and women dress differently irrelevant to sexiness.

look at this gw1 armor
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080827201205/gw_/images/1/17/Monk_Star_Armor_M_gray_front.jpg

almost all naked, and yet i dont think it even really comes across as sexy.
The reality is, its all in your head, my head, etc. What you dont really like is that people are dressing charachters in ways you find offensive, but thats impossible to police. They have a great number (more than they have skimpy) of armors that are fully clothed. People just like the skimpy ones on average. Blame the people, not the designers.

Miroe.2054:

[@Mods: This contains sarcasm, please no more infringement point because of sarcasm]

When a woman wants to kick your kitten, she won’t wear lingerie, she will wear some huge, intimidating armor and smack you with a Greatsword. On some level im a huge fan of RPing and when walk tyria im always imagining how these are real places and real people. It always makes me smile when I see a female character wearing skimpy armor cause I imagine how she would explain her armor choice. It would sound like something along the lines of:

[sarcasm stars here]
- Yea, I just wore this for years, people know me like this
- It makes me more mobile and agile, you know? I just don’t get hit
- Err, all of this practical armor is just too heavy for my fragile body, I just can’t wear it…
- Invisible magical force field all the way!!
- It fits my naturally blue hair color! Eww! Shooes!
- I want something to remind me of the ordeals of Arah.. yes, its a Plate Bikini
- Im “Emma Enignma” don’t event start asking me stuff..
- Are you RPing? Lol nubz!

the game isnt real. In all honesty real armor would be a horrible idea in the actual GW2 universe. In fact the skimpy armor would probably be more useful.

big bulk armor is actually pretty bad, its heavy, restricts movement, and doesnt protect you that well from many things
like bullets, fire, electricity, water, makes you more likely to get hit by objects hurled at you. Essentially in a world with magic energy, and bullets, its a real bad idea. In fact i think the main advantage of armor is probably from arrows, and cutting blades.

Now, if you take a look at skimpy armor, it gives you better movement, but protects key areas, with skill and knowing where you have armor, you can use it as neccessary to block without losing speed/freedom of movement. This is one of the reasons why gladiators were not in general heavy armored, as well the majority of soldiers.

anyhow reality doesnt really matter here, so ignore most of my comments, lets just say this, the reason you dress in a certain way in GW2 is because thats how you want to dress. For rping sake you must assume that the primary defense that applies is magical, otherwise, you should be moving at a stones pace in armor, take a long time to suit up, sink in water, the list goes on.

So once you accept the magic angle, then it really does become an issue of fashion

A R W E N.6895:

Yeah, maybe.

But I would love to see some form of stream with people from anet on pve content. I hope they will one day.

people from anet are designers/artists/etc, i dont know how entertaining their gameplay would be. I think people would just complain that they arent good enough at the game.

Wanze.8410:

Cormac.3871:

Well, I already said the guardian example was an extreme case, but it was meant to demonstrate that by increasing demand and not contributing to supply it is possible to increase inflation. I wanted to point out that gold generation and destruction are not the only factors in inflation. If half the materials in the world were to disappear overnight and 20% of the gold, what would happen to inflation?

TP Players (flippers/speculators) actually DO contribute to supply.
If we assume that there are no flippers/speculators who buy items that have less demand than supply, their value would inevitably go down until it reaches vendor value. At that point, everybody will vendor it, destroying the item in the process.
The flippers/speculators give people more gold for those items than the vendor and keep it in supply.

for most items with decent use, they would stay the same, people would just be more patient. In a lot of other mmos with more limits on the TP, stuff stays up longer, but it still sells.
Except for items that have their velocity so slow that they just keep building up and building up, yeah those items might get destroyed, but honestly they should get destroyed, keeping them around helps no one.

Bri.8354:

Even if stacking were removed this would still be an issue. Take level 49-50 fractals where players often melee a boss until they get hit down a bit, then range while their health is recovering or there is a good opportunity. Some fights are even done with primarily ranged weapons, such as the room with the champion rabbit in the harpy fractal.

The thing with range in these situations is that its best for the team if everyone stays close together. If someone goes down you can easily revive them and you’re always in range of support skills and finishers. As a ranger you want to be in range to give your allies spotter, frost spirit, and healing spring, but if you’re sitting back at 1,000+ range you’re only a liability to the party, not granting them your support abilities and not being affected by theirs.

I hope people can understand the conflict between support mechanics in a group and the design of these skills.

ranger has pretty good movement skills if he wants to. Making every weapon fit one style of play kind of defeats the purpose of having different weapons.

I would be asking for more ways to make long range play more team synergistic, and entertaining rather than asking longbow to be force fit into a melee meta.

Gewd.8125:

Cormac.3871:

You seem to be under the misapprehension that raw gold generation is the only factor in inflation. You may be aware that it is otherwise, but I see no indication of this in your posts.

It should be noted production of items has a deflationary effect. Any measure of the average item value by which we measure inflation is going to be proportional to the number amount of gold in game (more gold => higher prices) and inversely proportional to the amount of materials in the game (more stuff => lower prices).

I don’t think anyone is going to believe the value of the items you farmed comes anywhere close to the gold you get.

When Anet increased gold income by 3x, they did not increase item income by 3×. There is also no proof that people are farming 3x faster.

Your concocted story of the level 20 guardian increasing inflation is similarly ridiculous with a lot of flaws you haven’t considered.

1) The amount of gold a TP player can earn is proportional to the gold in the system. If the average player has less gold, buy and sell orders will be smaller, meaning smaller profit margins.

2) The TP is a zero sum game. For someone to make money off the TP, someone has to lose money, thus lowering demand.

3) The room in any part of the market is very small. Even if there are only 2 people in the market, they will undercut each other until profit approaches 0.

The number of people able to play the TP in any meaningful amount is much smaller than the people who buy gold and farm pve.

You say a lot of things and i dont really see what they are connected to.

first of all the value of items you farm is generally way greater than the amount of gold you farm.
this is true even if you were talking about npc values, and definately true if you are not. Unless you were talking about gold farmed from dungeons, which i havent really done the math on.

using your 3x number in your reasoning doesnt make sense, because your 3x number is the thing in question. Its circular reasoning

tp is zero sum game someone loses money lowering demand?
tp trading gold is not that linked to demand.
first of all the money that goes to someone else can still be used to fill their needs, that aside, people who want things often work harder to generate income. When i was making my legendary, and needed tons of materials, i farmed champ train, made investments, gambled, did many things to gain wealth i transfered and generated a lot of wealth/supply.
point is demand is about desire, and what you are willing to do to get something, supply and demand exist even when there is no monetary system.

the room in markets are small? that entirely depends on the market, undercutting isnt nearly as necessary as you think, and thats why TP players make a lot of money. The velocity and variance is high throughout the day. iron ores lowest buy order in the last 24 hours was 1.27 silver the highest sell order was 1.87. Point is, the market isnt so small, and many people dont actually undercut each other till nothing is gained.

now while i have disagreed with all your details, i still dont know if i disagree with your premise, because i am not sure what your premise is.

cormac is essentially right, the amount of currency doesnt always reflect inflation. There are many factors, and one of the most obvious is as he said increased supply.

anyhow, the inflation in terms of costs of average goods is not as high as the inflation of desired precursors. But really its all a distraction, because much of the money made on the TP isnt long term, people tend to make investments that pay out 3%-10% multiple times per day. They are in no danger of having inflation catch up to their earnings, inflation is mostly a worry for non tp players, and people who leave the game for a long time without turning their gold into items.

Shakkara.2641:

I want female armor that not only fully covers, but also does not show boobs in any way.

In particular heavy armor that does not have any breast-cups. Currently there’s not much choice in that regard.

Breastcups are totally unrealistic for heavy armor. You don’t need them as armor will just flatten those boobs. And it’s dangerous as they deflect blows and arrows right at your heart. All historical examples of women in platemail (for example, Jeane d’Arc) had them wear identical platemail as men do.

That is what I want for my characters. I’m female in real life but I play mostly male characters because I totally hate most of the female armor.

Phalanx Armor for men, so totally awesome.
And for women? Ugly helmet, ugly torso piece, ugly everything. So disappointing

Even Game of Thrones does it right, with heavily armored women like Brienne running around with platemail identical to male ones. THAT is the look I want for women!

this really isnt a good argument, because those people wearing that armor, was made by people who made male armor most of the time. Also brienne is supposed to look like dude in her armor.

and armor wasnt really designed for comfort

im pretty sure if they had real engineers/ergonomics people working on female armor, it probably wouldnt look like brienne/joan of arc, and it probably also wouldnt look like breast cups. Neither is probably actually representitive of armor well designed for a woman.

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Taygus.4571:

RyuDragnier.9476:

They need to make precursors craftable, it’d fix the problem in a heartbeat.

and triple (if not more) the prices of mats in a heartbeat.

So what? If T6 soars in price more people will farm the mats. This is a weak argument against fixing the lame precursor situation we have now.

T6 fine materials aren’t readily farmable.
They are used in Exotics, Ascended, Runes, Sigils, Potions, Food, and unique skin crafting. Raising their price will result in significant increases in these prices, as well as T5 fine materials (used for promotion) and everything made with those as well.

Shifting the majority of the expense of a legendary to the T6 materials will profoundly increase prices across the board for all sectors of the in game crafting economy which is something ArenaNet is aware of and most likely the main reason that Precursor crafting hasn’t been added yet.

getting t6 mats is a lot more farmable than getting a precursor. And most runes and sigils are generated via gambling in the forge, the t6 recipes act as an upper limit to the costs in this case, most of the craftable sigils/runes do not cost what the mats cost, the same can be said for most exotics.

essentially these items prices are mostly determined by rng drops in mystic forge and from enemies, not really their crafting cost

unique skins that you cant get via mystic forge gambling would however go up, but those arent really crafted for sale in general, because the cost is essentially the cost of the mats + your skill points (if it requires them)

And as someone said, t6 mats are farmable, thats better for a long term goal, with many steps.

Gewd.8125:

Behellagh.1468:

@Gewd

Sounds like you are determining you 300% figure from the Exchange’s rate of Gold to Gems. Actually it’s 200% or 3x but not 300%. Minor nick-pit.

Major nick-pit is the Exchange’s rate has absolutely nothing to do with purchasing power of gold relative to TP prices. The exchange rate is mechanically determined based on the amount of the remaining gems in the exchange’s vault Vs gold in the exchanges’s vault. The more players convert gold to gems, the higher the rate goes as gems decrease while gold increases in the exchange’s vault. We could have zero inflation on the TP while the exchange rate rises 200% in a year.

The increase of the exchange rate just means players love trading gold for gems and haven’t taken the hint yet that this only raises the rate higher.

Nah, you really think I am that bad at math?

I determined inflation by looking at the black market exchange rate. The best measurement of inflation bar none.

not sure what you mean by black market exchange rate, are you talking about arenanet gold to gems gems/gold? talking about rmt? talking about something totally different?

ThunderBadger.3049:

Waffler.1257:

ThunderBadger.3049:

And as long as we’re talking about variety here…fair’s fair. I don’t think that the male counterparts have enough skimpy armor to match the females. Bring it on Anet!

I can dress my male heavy in four different armor skins that expose my nipples. How many armor skins can you dress your female in that expose your nipples?

I`m not talking about guys nipples. Think…lower.

Sorry but gw2 males have no geometry down there. Nothing to see

Mckeone.9804:

phys.7689:

Many people talking about their biggest losses are suffering some serious myopia. Its like someone who died 3 times fighting tequatl talking about how he lost money(back when there was repair fees), ignoring the fact he won the fight.

Point the op is making, is yes you lose on investments some times, but overall its pretty easy to come out ahead OVERALL. Talking about the time you lost 10 g on sprockets and ignoring the other times you made 100g is foolish.

For those who say, the TP is a net loss, sure maybe for the world, but we know its a net loss for the world, the question is, is it a loss for you as a TP player? Its like someone saying the stock market was a loss because they have to pay broker fees.

Heres the truth, TP is pvp, you take your money from other players, mostly less educated (on tp) or people who dont care. You essentially siphon money from all the players who arent playing the same game as you. Redistributing wealth into your pockets.

I mean its fine, but stop lying to yourself, saying you COULD lose money on the TP if you are foolish, you could lose money waypointing over the map, or leaving dungeon runs due to anger, or failing tequatl/wurm.

Lets be real and honest. The risk on the TP is minimal overall when you have even an inkling what you are doing, for an actual TP player. The risk is extremely great for a non TP player, but they dont know/dont care that they have just lost value, in fact they will often argue with you until you are blue in the face, when you talk about things like opportunity costs, transforming items, waiting, variance, etc.

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

You’re talking about trading. He’s talking about speculative investments gone sour. There’s a difference. Unless you are running a pure arbitrage strategy or are able to purchase an item at vendor cost (and don’t have opportunity costs in terms of storage/liquidity), then any investment carries unmitigable risks, which scale with the amount of the investment. Look at Vol and his dodge food bet.

I think the op isnt talking about speculation, i think hes talking about all profit earning ventures the average TP players makes, and saying that overall they profit pretty easily.

Flissy.4093:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

OK, i make profit by playing the game, just like anybody else. What a revelation.

“omg but tp isnt plyng the gaem, u paly tpwarz2 y u evn ply enymoar?”
-the majority, 2012-2014.

see thing is, the majority probably wouldnt care, except they have to play your game for the the high end things. Best way to solve the problem is to give people means of getting the upper echelon stuff in game through normal play. Most people dont care about spreadsheets, profits, etc they just want to have fun and get the stuff they want without entering your battlefield.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

OK, i make profit by playing the game, just like anybody else. What a revelation.

the point of the OP is, dont act like the TP is some sort of high risk extremely difficult mode of play. This is not saying that YOU are, but there are many people acting like making money on the TP is harder than beating wurm, or winning a pvp match. Its just a different type of game that is being played.

As far as risk, yes, you could lose money but you could lose money doing a lot of stupid/shortsighted things in many facets of the game.