Guild Wars 2

“Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.”

Exotic and Legendary items have the same stats. There is no “jump”.

This is a gear grind, pure and simple. They have deliberately deceived players in order to incite players to buy gems. I would like my money back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_and_switch

I wouldn’t have bought the game if I knew it was going to be just another gear treadmill MMO.

Class action lawsuit anyone?

I for one will never touch GW1 sPVP or tPVP for as long as Downed State is as big a factor as it is. It’s not fun to play, not good to watch, takes focus away from the core combat, rewards numbers over skill, is unbalanced and rife with exploits/bugs.

It’s a failed experiment, and the longer Anet clings to it, the worse the prospects for GW2 as a serious PVP game look.

While PVE and sPVP have been thoroughly disappointing, WVW is very good and will probably keep me playing for a while (until Darkfall 2 comes out?).

TheGuy.3568:

Can’t have it both ways. You have aoe, range, and support on staff you don’t need the uber single target dps it just doesn’t make sense. Why even have other weapons then?

because the other weapons have those options already? virtually every weapon of every class has some mix of range, AOE, support and control.

currently, 19/20 staff skills are AOE. all i’m arguing for is 1-3 single target skills and/or a trait or 2.

Tulisin.6945:

Downed state is exactly what makes things like <2 second kill thieves not broken. Downed state puts a hard floor on TTK at time it takes to down opponent + time to finish the opponent, which allows team-mates to react to defend.

Quite frankly this is a ridiculous justification. First, because thieves can easily stealth-stomp (itself ridiculous); second, PVP games should not have insta-gibbing at all, it’s the opposite of skill; third, it completely unbalances the 1v1 situation (lolol 100% to 0% in < 2secs then stealth-stomp).

As a regular soloer/duoer who frequently does 1vX, downed state is about as stupid a mechanic you could create.

It’s hard enough to take on multiple attackers at once, let alone having them rally off a bystanding deer, or rezzing their teammate while standing in a pool of fire. It’s nothing short of absurd.

Downed state ought to be disabled in PVP zones, or as suggested numerous times on the forum, the rez should be channelled and should break and be reset to zero on damage. There should be a forced respawn timer on entering the defeated state of about 30-120 seconds.

Bunzy.8674:

Does anyone run differently then D/D or Bunker Elementalist now days?

Aren’t you the Anet apologist guy who keeps trying to saying that Ele’s have tons of viable builds?

In any case, your OP is correct, from a WVW viewpoint.

I still occasionally see a sceptre guy, but not often, and they tend to fold pretty easily… the glacial dragon’s tooth animation just cripples that weapon.

Lysico.4906:

Just allow for out of combat weapon swapping so we don’t have to deal with a clunky ui.

I think it’s pretty clear that in-combat weapon swapping for Ele would be OP. I feel that tuning the existing weapon skills so that each weapon is thematically different but still able to perform (or be specced to perform) multiple roles is an overall better way to go.

You can run around with say d/d and be ready for a 1v1 if jumped. But if you stroll up on a zerg fight, you have time to swap over to staff

You can do that now, you just have to stay out of combat for 15 secs.

Kerithlan.1659:

Water Blast (for example) doesn’t always cause AoE. The AoE is conditional.

It affects an area, therefore it’s an area-of-effect spell, whether it affects more than one target or not is irrelevant; the spell has been tuned to perform at an “AOE level”.

Returning to the topic, Water #1 does paltry damage as its tuned to be an AOE healing/support nuke, which is fine, however, there should be at least 1 skill and/or trait that permits staff to perform at a reasonable level in 1v1.

Designing weapons to perform well at only 1 role for a class that cannot weapon swap practically is terrible game design.

Leeach.3547:

Staff is god in www. I love to watch while my Meteor shower rain down on the enemy with 83% crit and 98% crit damage ). You will get criticals in the 4300-6800 range and 66% chance to steal life on Critical hit food will give you a fair bit of survivability. If the staff where good 1vs1 it would be VERY OP. Air one is your best option for 1vs1 and really good vs. Mesmers and Rangers.

That’s fine if you like zerging/tower humping.

It’s not OP because you get decimated in seconds with those stats.

Like I suggested, if there were a trait that weakened the AOE aspect in order to buff the single target then it would be fine.

TheWarKeeper.5374:

No, they are simply just too overpowered to be considered utility slots! frankly i take utility skill over them anyday if i could have but since elite skill forces you to use the elite skillls only….

As some|one else said, the fact that many people would rather slot another regular utility instead of one of our “elite” skills is pretty clear indication that something is wrong.

Earth Elemental has some use in PVE, and Water Elemental in PVP, but in general, the elites are worse than regular utility skills.

I use the Sylvari racial ‘Take Root’ – I find it far more effective than any of the Ele elites.

Kerithlan.1659:

You’re also disingenuous about the number of single-target skills the staff has. It has five, in fact: Fireball, Water Blast, Lightning Surge, Stoning and Shockwave. Each of these skills targets a single foe, damages it, and in the case of the non-earth skills provides a bonus after-effect. Fireball dealing splash damage doesn’t make it any less of a single-target ability: it makes it a single target ability with conditional splash.

Um… all of those spells are AOE except for stoning. If the spells affects an area, it is by definition an area of effect spell. I don’t see how this isn’t clear.

Having said that, elementalist overall is a bit “soft” so to speak. Even if the staff is tweaked it doesn’t highlight some of the underlying problems, such as how difficult soloing is compared to other professions.

If the staff absolutely must be changed (and nothing else), here are my suggestions:

1. Chain Lightning should deal much more damage than it currently does, but to compensate have the damage split evenly across its targets. For some fake example numbers, let’s say that it deals 600 damage to a single target. If there’s two targets have it deal 300 to each, and if there’s three have it deal 200 damage to each.

2. Lightning Surge should stun your target for either 0.5 or 1.0 seconds as well as blinding it. Nearby foes should be blinded for a shorter duration.

3. Gust should cause additional damage or knockback if it only hits a single opponent.

4. Stoning should cause a minor knockback or interrupt if the target is crippled or immobilized. The projectile should move faster.

5. Unsteady Ground should interrupt/trip if the opponent is weakened or immobilized.

These changes would make the elementalist a bit more viable in terms of dueling and single-target control without horribly destroying their multi-target potential (or even really changing how the current state of things operates). Earth is overall fairly weak compared to Fire and Air (since 1 is kind of bad, 3 is a shield and 2/4 can be unreliable/slow), so we can create a fair balance by improving its inter-skill synergies and kiting. Specifically though the focus would be on making Air a bit stronger against single targets.

So you basically agree with me anyway?

TheFug.5278:

So you want the most power AOE at the same time as having powerful 1 person options?

Thieves already have the most powerful AOE (dagger storm) and best single target (backstab build).

In any case, I’m suggesting you should be able to make staff do viable single-target damage rather than solely AOE. This could be implemented purely as a skill change or require you to spec for specific traits to do it.

TheWarKeeper.5374:

ugh, dont u think it would be wiser to have another weapon doing what you are requesting rather than changing 9 staff aoe skills to single target? :\

Noone is suggesting changing 9 (wtf?) skills, only 1-3. Of one attunement.

Can I suggest you read the OP before replying?

I think DAOC-like 5man roaming can work here, the only things that are really missing IMO are zerg-busting tools (currently only possible with siege, 5man AOE cap is dumb) and a touch more map space.

TheWarKeeper.5374:

But changing staff to single target dps isnt very great because we will be horrid for aoe dps and support in pve for example.

Changing 1-3 skills and/or changing 1-2 traits in a single attunement is not going to make you “horrid” at AOE or support…

• Ele’s don’t have weapon-swap
• The title and body of the post clearly express that the issue is how poor the single-target is, not how great the AOE is/may be.

I feel staff is very poorly designed as a weapon. Staff focuses far too heavily on area effects, it desperately needs trait or skill changes to make it a viable 1v1 choice.

19 of the 20 staff skills are AOE, the only single-target spell is Earth #1 (water #1 is single target damage, but procs an AOE heal). Even then, Earth #1 applies very weak damage.

Accordingly, staff is a very poor weapon choice for anything not involving multiple targets in a PVP context. Staff offers a reasonable number of control options, but the long cast times, telegraphed red circle on the ground, and the abundance of gap closers in the game make it fairly trivial for moderately-skilled opponents to avoid.

Whether through specific trait choices or the default skill set, staff ought to offer better opportunities to apply focused single target damage. Obvious candidates for re-working are Air #1-3:

• Air #1: Buff the first strike, and reduce the damage of subsequent bounce hits accordingly, or make subsequent bounces able to re-strike the first target.
• Air #2: Increase the damage and make it instant cast, lengthen the CD.
• Air #3: Add a reasonable damage component to the knockback.

Air also currently has the weakest trait choices; some trait suggestions:

• a trait that increases the first strike of any Air or Water skill by 50% at the cost of reducing subsequent strikes of the same attack by 35%, internal CD of 6-10 secs (i.e. increased ST damage at cost of reduced AOE damage)
• a trait that increases damage against Weakened targets (i.e. combo with Earth #1).

they should only replace the skills of 1 element, not all 4, and you should be able to switch back and forth freely for the duration.

it’s the only way they will ever be worth losing a utility slot.

Agree… conjured weapons will be terrible until they cease to lockout the other attunements’ skills for their duration.

this is the Ele “exploit” video he is referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

^ lies. feel free to post a video to prove me wrong though.

i don’t doubt that you can get those numbers with a full glass build, however you’d be getting insta-gibbed right after, and won’t be collecting any badges as a result.

Minion of Vey.4398:

Not only should the baseline attunement cooldown be faster, but the 10 point arcane trait Elemental Attunement (The one that gives you regen on water switch, might on fire switch etc) should be baseline too.

Agree. I think there’s a strong case for reducing the base attunement CD and then reducing the arcana attunement recharge bonus. It was lower in beta and it didn’t feel overpowered. The present base/recharge curve favours arcana builds too much IMO.

MindlessRuff.1948:

If you are running D/D then take the ten point air trait Zephyrs boon and spam auras.

this == 100% swiftness uptime with 30 arcane.

Angel.1435:

@Fenghoang – Just rotate your camera 180 degrees quickly and pop it and you will jump forward instead. It’s handy when using it as you’re coming out of RTL, rotate the camera while travelling and then pop it when RTL is ending. but it’s not needed when using Zephyr’s Boon

just target any hostile behind you while casting Updraft – you roll forward.

staff is great for group support/control and killing siege, but mediocre to crap at everything else.

5-target AOE cap and lack of decent single target damage kills it.

boozer.7815:

mjharrison.3209:

Whoever said to try a full conjure build doesn’t really play an ele – conjures are a death sentence, mainly because they lock out 75% of our weapon skills.

Wrong. I play Ele and only Ele since BWE2. Conjured Weapons are in fine shape by themselves. The only problem with a Conjure build is swapping more fluidly. You can swap out of them at will, any time you feel you need to swap out. Not sure where you are getting the idea that once you summon one you are forever locked out of any other attunement. That is flat out wrong. They synergize very well with combo fields and the dps they put out is actually superior in many ways. They bring an added dimension to this class that is not obtainable just by using our standard skills. WTH would you play a class and NOT use some of your skills just because you have some imaginary bias against them that is not based in fact in any way?

I started playing Ele in GW2 in BWE1. All I do each play session is roaming 1vX in t1 WVW as D/D, and in that context, conjures are worse than useless because they lock out other attunement skills unless you drop the weapon. They’re a total waste of a utility slot, which is why you simply don’t see anyone using them in PVP – they’re bad.

I’ll grant you though that suicidal charges with fiery greatsword, and pulling people from walls with earth shield #4 can be a fun as a laugh.

mjharrison.3209:

I am yet to find an ele build that doesn’t use arcane that isn’t significantly weaker than those that do.

Wow. Wrong again! I am starting to suspect its you who does not play an Ele based on your own statements, which again are entirely based in opinion and not fact. There have been A LOT of people who have flatly stated, myself included, that you DO NOT NEED Arcana to be effective at playing this class. Nobody is saying that speccing into Arcana does not make a strong and a viable build, because it does for Boon stacking builds, but you DO NOT need to spec even one single point into it to still be just as, if not more, effective at playing this class. As with all classes, its the player behind the toon that makes a truly effective showing in PvP. While I truly hate it when some of these posts on here yell at people to LTP, it really does apply in this case. But you keep on, keepin on with that closed minded attitude and ignore the fact that this class is multi-dimensional and should not ever be played based on one or two builds.

I’ll repeat my previous comment – so far, I’ve tried a bunch of different builds, and like many other Ele’s, I’ve come to the conclusion that at least 10 arcane for arcane V is basically mandatory for PVP when you’re not herpa-derping with the zerg.

Oh and staff and D/D are both highly vulnerable to conditions, so you’ll need 10+ in water as well. There’s a reason why most Eles are running high water/earth/arcane/cantrips builds in PVP – glass cannonish builds are all glass and not much cannon.

I love WVW, but I truly hate having downed state in PVP.

There’s a reason why no other self-respecting PVP game has tried it, it’s a bad idea.

FrozeNuggz.7219:

Elementilist is the best WvW class out there, its a bit OP really, i mean it has everything, and all it takes to play it well is a brain. so requisition one from the supply Sargent and get to killing soldier

The single best thing i find my Ele is good for is roaming as D/D. Fast travel and decent 1v1 ability if built tanky. D/D is close to useless in a zerg situation however.

Ele AOE is very overrated IMO, the 5-enemy cap means it’s really only good for killing siege. The support (heals + control) aspect of staff is IMO far more powerful. Staff is really frustratingly bad in a single target/1v1 situation as almost every attack is AOE… IMO it’s a very poorly designed weapon.

Overall Ele is a decent choice for WVW support but for killing stuff in a ranged standoff it’s really not very effective unless you go full glass cannon and don’t mind being 1- and 2-shotted by everything (ps: it’s not fun).

No, if anything, make it once a month. If you’re changing servers more than once a month there’s something wrong, or you failed to do any forum research beforehand.

I don’t think the OP is proposing to remove zerging per se, only to remove or mitigate factors like AOE cap and downed state that promote zerging.

Kyus.3812:

the aoe cap actually favors smaller organised groups. The aoe cap is the best thing that arena net included for WvW. it is a great way of controlling and equalising aoe damage.

No it doesn’t. It does however favour zerging. Zergs exacerbate the server culling issue, leading to more invisible enemies and lagggggggy fights that look terrible due to excessive #s of particle effects.

AOE cap is also being routinely exploited in the “turtling” tactic, where zergs stack in a bunch to trivialise AOE damage while maximising healing and condition removal, the latter 2 of which are not capped.

I do like downed state however it requires you to think a lot more especially when out numbered.

As a thief, you should hate it. Even if you manage to pick off members of a zerg and get a stomp off them, even if you don’t die in the process, they will simply rez and continue about their business.

aaron.4317:

Downed state is ridiculous for the side with larger numbers.

AE cap of 5 is ridiculous for the side with larger numbers.

The game’s basic mechanics already favors a zerg of casuals, the two mechanics above just make it silly.

This, exactly. Downed state (and rallying) has ruined so many of my 1vXs because my downed opponent rallies because a by-standing mob died, or like last night, i successfully manage to 1v2 2 guys to downed, but get downed myself seconds later from condition damage, then i proceed to get 2v1ed to defeated due to the 3 of us throwing rocks, which rallies both guys. It was a ridiculous end to an otherwise great fight where the 3 of us should have simply died.

Downed state is, without exaggeration, the stupidest and most annoying game mechanic i have ever experienced in 25 years of gaming. It is ruining the otherwise decent PVP in this game for me. It is my #1 hate in this game and i desperately hope it will be removed entirely from PVP zones, or at least rezzing made to break on any damage and no rallying.

Leaked patch notes:

• Downed state has been disabled in all PVP zones.
• WVW: all players now spawn with 2 supply. Engineers can now pick up to 12 supply, up from the default 10.
• WVW: taking keeps and towers now have a slight chance to drop siege blueprints.
• The effect of quickness has been reduced to a 50% attack speed increase, down from 100%. Durations have been generally increased by 20-25%.
• The cost of world portals have been reduced by 50%.

• Thief: Backstab damage reduced by 25%.
• Mesmer: Portals are now capped at 5-15 people, cap is inversely proportional to the distance between the portal entry and exit.
• Ele: Base attunement recharge is now 12 seconds, reduced from 15. Arcana now increases attunement recharge rate by 1.2%/point, down from 2%.
  Necro: all bugs fixed.
  Warrior: Damage from 100 blades has been reduced by 15%, but now no longer roots the player on use.

If only..

Yeah reducing attunement recharge across the board and then halving the attunement recharge bonus per point of arcana is another good solution’ but I really think if you’ve invested 30points in an element, then that element’s recharge should be substantially reduced as a result.

I think there should be a pool of weapon-specific skills, from which you choose your 3/2/5 (mh/oh/2h).

Builds are way too generic in this game compared to gw1.

Whoever said to try a full conjure build doesn’t really play an ele – conjures are a death sentence, mainly because they lock out 75% of our weapon skills.

I am yet to find an ele build that doesn’t use arcane that isn’t significantly weaker than those that do.

I think arcane doesn’t need changes but speccing in any of the other elements should decrease the reuse timer for that element.

Ie, if you spec 30 air, your reuse CD on air ought to be really short, like 5 secs.

D/d is the only decent damage spec imho, the other weapons are terrible at applying damage, mainly because of bad design – dragon,s tooth ruins sceptre and what was the thinking behind making staff purely aoe, or d/d purely melee? Around 2/3rds of our traits are totally ineffectual.

Downed state, by far. You shouldn’t be able to res or rally people so easily.

Like:
- WVW
- gear/level normalisation
- a viable melee mage option (D/D Ele)

Dislike:
- downed state in PVP zones
- general lack of skill choice
- Ele: staff == only long-ranged AOE, D/D = only melee range
- Ele: lack of build depth/choice, only defensive specs are effective

I think the fundamental shortcoming of GW2 PVP is Downed State. It has too great a determinant on the outcome of an encounter and overly subverts the natural flow of combat. I’d start with eliminating downed state from all PVP zones. It adds nothing but detracts a lot.

The other fundamental problem is the lack of depth in builds relative to GW1. Ele for instance, 3/4 or more of the traits available are bugged or grossly underpowered compared to others.

I don’t feel like I have any real build choice, as nothing but defensive builds are effective. I never felt that way in GW1 in 4 years of playing it.

I feel like GW2 totally missed the mark on the weapon/skill design and there is a ton of revision and additions required to bring it up to the level of GW1 in depth, strategy and replayability.

Removing or serious changling downed state and putting the focus back on the combat, not the ressing/stomping would be a good start.

Downed state doesn’t belong in PVP zones. Take it out or make it break on any damage. It’s a laughing stock the way it currently is.

Ferris Bewler.9706:

some qq

Just want to say thx to all those BG guys who attacked EH keep for the past hour or 2, had to run to the merchant 3 times to clean up my bags.

Yet another reason why downed state is terrible in PVP zones.

The best fix would just be to make rezzing break on any form of damage in a PVP zone.

Downed state does nothing for the “team” game, all it does is heavily favour numbers over skill.

The side with the greater numbers always wins in an open-field standoff, simply through greater capacity for rezzing.

It sucks.

Rezzing ought to break on any form of damage in PVP zones. That would fix it without being overly punitive.

Running a glass cannon build in t1 is asking to be faceplanted constantly. The only time i’ve not found the experience an exercise in frustration is camping keep walls and destroying rams and golems.

Even then, a single well-placed arrow cart is > your glass cannon Ele.

I would love to spec something other than water/earth/arcane + cantrips, but it’s the only viable spec in WVW as far as i am concerned.

D/D Elementalist could, assuming their fingers were fast enough, do their RTL, Updraft, Burning Speed, Cleansing Flame, Fire Grab, Arcane Wave, Arcane Blast combo and take people from full to zero instantly in sPvP.
So the damage got nerfed a bit.

You mean like a backstab thief can now, except they only need to use 3-4 buttons instead of 8?

hmm…

I don’t think conjured weapons will be worth a kitten until they stop locking you out of your other attunements, as the current class design is critically dependent on attunement switching.

The best fix I can think of is that conjured weapon skills replace the skills of their relevant element, and allow you to switch attunements as usual.

ie: conjure fiery GS replaces your fire skills only, but you can still switch to water, earth and back to fire.