Guild Wars 2

Furthermore, no other class gets hindered by their classmechanic. You can’t take the adrenaline away from warriors. Yet you can kite or kill our pet. Eles don’t have to use their mechanic, they can use fire all the way and still deal impressive damage.
Last but not least, no other class* get it’s damage cut to justify their classmechanic.
(* Mesmers are in the same boat but since their AI can be simple, they don’t get crippled)

jiaping.8514:

Its make sence that Ranger’s DPS and CC will be less than orther profession if carry pets.

Errrr, no. The pet is our classmechanic. No other profession gets crippled in order to justify their classmechanic.

Wethospu.6437:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

I can’t get behind the instability system. It’s still the same lame dungeon which you want to complete as fast as possible to get the loot (Yes, that’s grind and GW2 turned into a grindy game) and the instabilities just slow you down. There is not even an explanation for those instabilities storywise.

How are instabilities making that worse? Even without them people ran only same levels for daily.
Why is getting slowed down a bad thing if you find fast clears lame?

Because slow clears are even more lame.
Look, I’ve played this game for over 3k hours now, most times in PvE, I’ve done all dungeons too often to find them entertaining. It bores me. I’m doing those things to get the reward.

Aioros.4862:

The problem with that is it’ll will make rangers better than other classes.
Rangers shouldn’t be better, we should be even.

We wouldn’t. Ofcourse, the pet-damage has to be toned down in order to get our full damage back, but as McWolfy has already pointed out, the warrior gets around +15% damage through his classmechanic. So the pet could still deal 10%, which would lead to ultimately 110% damage. Also, if you invest points into beastmastery, your damage will go down since you can’t invest points into your own damage but the damage of your pet will increase. IMO beastmaster ranger should deal slightly more absolute damage than a zerker ranger (115%?) since you should get rewarded for actively using the pet.
Furthermore, to make the pet annoying enough, so that enemies have to care about them, pets could apply vulnerability on hit.

nagymbear.5280:

SkiTz.4590:

I think everyone in this forum and this game understands Rangers need an overhaul (absolutely broken class mechanic, see past 100 pages and threads on it in ranger forums)

The only problem is, Anet does NOT believe this class needs an overhaul lol.
Even if they do believe it does, they simply WON’T do it and CAN’T do it (priorities like LS and gemstore are bigger lol)

I don’t think ranger needs an overhaul. An overhaul would mean redesigning the pets completely, redesigning the traits, utilities. The pets don’t need an overhaul to be scary so that people start dealing with them, instead of just circlestrafing. If you have reliable control pets, you can force peoples defensive skills being played on your terms. If they defend against the pet you control them, if they defend themselves from you you control them with the pet. Same for damage. We don’t need an overhaul for that. We need more control over the pet. We also need some traits removed and some new traits introduced, but I don’t consider that an overhaul.

The Pet is an AI, an AI will never be as effective as a player. Not in GW2. If the AI isn’t as effective as a player in dealing damage, we lose damage. The AI part shouldn’t be mandatory, it should be additional. Let the ranger deal 100% damage and the pet additional damage.

What’s far more interesting: Every Elderdragon has his own minions. The minions of the Jungle Dragon could be… well, Sylvari?

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

First, I want to stir the pot on Instabilities. […] I’d like to know what you think. Is this a good system? Does it add to the Fractal experience? Would you rather have 30 new Instabilities or 1 new Fractal? Which ones do you like/dislike?

I can’t get behind the instability system. It’s still the same lame dungeon which you want to complete as fast as possible to get the loot (Yes, that’s grind and GW2 turned into a grindy game) and the instabilities just slow you down. There is not even an explanation for those instabilities storywise.

Yoh.8469:

That wasn’t the idea, learn reading comprehension.
The idea wouldn’t have anymore pets out at any given time as you do now, one.
You’d just have 4 pets that you could summon/swap to. You summon one, and then it either dies, is recalled or times out. Then you have three left to go through, one at a time.

With your idea we could bypass some AoE issues and the pet would become more versatile. But we still wont be able to deal competitive top tier damage since the pet is simply a damageloss.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Living-World-Bug-prevents-success/first#post3714153

There is a pretty annoying issue with the blue Assault Knight. He can be healed by the little Clockwork repair thingies (dunno how they’re called). Our Knight got healed twice and regenerated over 80% health which ultimately leads to failing the event.

So what does our classmechanic offer more than other classes have?

• Ranger can split focus on two targets (means damageloss)
• Harder to kite
• Adaptive utility (F2)
• Wide choice between melee/ranged, offensive/defensive pets
• Pet stats are independent of gear the ranger is wearing (Offensive pet while defensive gear, …) (can be a impediment)
• Aggrotank in solo PvE

xallever.1874:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

To clear the air about pets, lets collate:

What’s negative about the pet:

• Offers no benefit to certain playstyles

I don’t see this as a negative or a positive. It will be a negative thing if it is an impediment to certain playstyles.

I don’t see the Mesmer shatter mechanic as negative if you decide to go for a phantasm-heavy build. You just simply don’t benefit it as much than if you had gone Shatter or Lockdown.

For instance, if you had gone the beastmaster route, and your pet dies too easily, makes no real threat before it’s dead, then it’s a hindrance. In which case, it will be a negative thing.

What I meant was that the pet offers no benefit to the trapper playstyle or the archer playstyle. Both playstyles would be better off if the ranger would have all the damage.
Yet we have the pet. The pet can’t help us as archers or trappers, yet we get the disadvantages, such as the dps loss.

To clear the air about pets, lets collate:
What’s positive about the pet:

• Ranger can split focus on two targets
• Harder to kite
• Adaptive utility (F2)
• Wide choice between melee/ranged, offensive/defensive pets
• Pet stats are independent of gear the ranger is wearing (Offensive pet while defensive gear, …)
• Aggrotank in solo PvE

What’s negative about the pet:

• AI too simple (Can’t hit multiple targets, can’t evade, can’t follow the ranger, unreliable in every aspect)
• If the damage is split (Ranger 70%, Pet 30%), the ranger will never deal as much damage as if the ranger has 100% of the damage.
• Pet stats are independent of gear the ranger is wearing (Pet stats wont get increased by higher-tier gear)
• Lots of traits that either boost the ranger or the pet, less traits which boost both parts
• Offers no benefit to certain playstyles
• Huge loss if pet dies (Shouts wont work, traits wont work, potential damageloss on weapons)

Feel free to enhance this list.

Bran.7425:

DeceiverX.8361:

thefantasticg.3984:

DeceiverX.8361:

As I stated, if a BM-based ranger is capable of having the pet get such bonuses to remain equal with a non-pet ranger, I don’t see the inherent problem as then the damage values remain approximately the same. Mind you, the pet ranger is also capable of applying more stacks of vulnerability and debuffs to kill the boss faster and soak aggro.

I run signets on my ranger because RoA/Signet of the Wild + QZ and a well-timed Signet of the Hunt maximizes damage potential. And that’s exactly the point I present here: I run no utilities as it stands despite the condi meta in WvW just because that’s the kind of character I want to play. My strategy, even in dungeons, is to not get hit and use heals properly. Why should dedicated BM’s have simply inadequate pets/utility or dedicated archers suffer from ridiculous damage falloff? Simply giving players the option to pick a style is much better than telling them just to play spirit bunker and like it.

Pet can only apply those vul and other stacks if it actually lands the hits… which it frequently doesn’t even against other AI mobs (unless I’m tanking for the pet).

I’ll use s+wh with RoA+QZ since I don’t run the Beastmaster signet.

Against non-moving bosses? I don’t recall my pet ever missing one of those.

Against regular mobs, yea it might miss if you don’t play properly, but is a ranger’s pet’s ability to land opening strike imperative in general PvE mobs? It certainly shouldn’t be when debating dungeon viability. A beastmaster should be utilizing F1 for initating an attack before assigning his attack as well in order to maintain aggro on the pet and not himself, so the mob will not move as pets cannot attract aggro by themselves, thus Opening Strike will always hit. This is only not the case in WvW, and even then I’m not denying that pet AI needs a fix or an increased hitbox, but that simply Jon Peters publicly announced AI will never be fixed/reworked due to software/hardware limitations per the server-client model.

I do not see how this makes beastmaster builds any less viable in dungeons, which are really the only necessary aspects of PvE to consider since rangers are outright overpowered in general PvE due to the pets being able to take so much aggro and the mobs not moving around much.

I can get a video of a Ranger setting the pet on a target and then pulling the target off the pet by walking near-by (no other actions, no attacks, no skill use) and reproduce the effect numerous times.

Yeah, you can make your pet hit in dungeons, but you can’t save your pet from dying to AoE’s most times.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Nike,

I am hoping that we can inject more lore and epic moments into the fractals. That we can transport player’s to even more iconic periods of Guild Wars history.

What if we could send players forward in Fractal time?

I am hoping that we can build on the strong foundation that we have with base Fractal mechanics and continue to build challenging encounters through strategic gameplay and strong ‘team’ centric inter-dynamics.

I as a player also hope that we can make fractals more rewarding, especially in regard to ascended acquisition.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Fractals are one of my favorite parts of the game and these are some of my wishes for their evolution.

Chris

Edit: I was also asked what my thoughts on rolling are: As a player i have no issue with that particular system as it currently stands.

I was also asked about Dredge: As a player I would love to see some work done on dredge.

Since many people aren’t satisfied with the Arah story part, would you like the idea of a different fight vs. Zhaitan as boss fractal?

CrossFire.8037:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Abrilete.1439:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Abrilete.1439:

Regarding the 30% DPS lost becasuse our pets never hit…
It’s been tested by several players that the “30% faster pets trait” (Agility Training) helps a lot improving pet’s DPS.

Giving our pets that speed increase by default, and also increasing the range for their mele attacks, could be an easy-to-implement patch until ANet decides to fix pet’s AI.

Doesn’t make the pet any better.

At least, they would hit more consistently against moving targets (be it players or NPC’s). ANet has said many times that they don’t plan to fix pet’s AI soon, so until then (if they ever do, and I don’t think so) we must find ways to make them work within current constraints.

Delete them. If they can’t fix them I want them deleted.

But but…rangers are the pet class…even though the pet mechanic is broken, unreliable and an actual hindrance in most game modes, the pets must stay because we need a pet class! /anet

It’s pathetic at this point. If you want to stick with pets, either fix them or allow them to become an option through a beast-master trait.

Minor Trait: “You get a pet.”

Abrilete.1439:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Abrilete.1439:

Regarding the 30% DPS lost becasuse our pets never hit…
It’s been tested by several players that the “30% faster pets trait” (Agility Training) helps a lot improving pet’s DPS.

Giving our pets that speed increase by default, and also increasing the range for their mele attacks, could be an easy-to-implement patch until ANet decides to fix pet’s AI.

Doesn’t make the pet any better.

At least, they would hit more consistently against moving targets (be it players or NPC’s). ANet has said many times that they don’t plan to fix pet’s AI soon, so until then (if they ever do, and I don’t think so) we must find ways to make them work within current constraints.

Delete them. If they can’t fix them I want them deleted.

Abrilete.1439:

Regarding the 30% DPS lost becasuse our pets never hit…
It’s been tested by several players that the “30% faster pets trait” (Agility Training) helps a lot improving pet’s DPS.

Giving our pets that speed increase by default, and also increasing the range for their mele attacks, could be an easy-to-implement patch until ANet decides to fix pet’s AI.

Doesn’t make the pet any better.

digiowl.9620:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

digiowl.9620:

More like it is useless because mobs will spike through any and all attempts at healing unless you dodge, so you dodge and don’t bother with healing unless you down and out panic.

I think you didn’t understand what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about the heals but about the affect on boons and if it would be OP or not.

But the idea is to make healing power into something that is more worthwhile to take in PVE than it is at present. But the reason for it not being worthwhile in PVE, but much more so in PVP, is that in PVE the mobs are specifically designed to break any possibility of a tank and spank scenario. In essence, the problem is not the stat, it is the PVE mob design.

That’s indeed true.

digiowl.9620:

More like it is useless because mobs will spike through any and all attempts at healing unless you dodge, so you dodge and don’t bother with healing unless you down and out panic.

I think you didn’t understand what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about the heals but about the affect on boons and if it would be OP or not.

To be precise: This change is meant to hit the current dungeon-meta. You can’t just throw 5 zerkers into a dungeons because their boons would suck. You need atleast one who has invested in Boon Power in order to make the boons strong again.
For WvW, there would be no difference if a 0-Boon-Power ranger fights a 0-Boon-Power warrior or a 500-Boon-Power ranger vs. a 500-Boon-Power warrior.
Furthermore, if you want to invest into Boon Power, you wouldn’t been able to get Strength, Precision and Critical Chance all together, so you can’t play as Boon Power zerker.

Prysin.8542:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Prysin.8542:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Healing and regeneration shouldn’t be affected by the change. The other boons on the other hand should be affected.
As an example: the current Fury adds flat 20% critical chance.
You could change it to 5% without Boon Power, which would stack up to 30% with a high amount of Boon Power. Another example: Might is determined by the following formula: 0.375 * Level + 5. Why not change it to Boon Power * Level + 5 or Boon Power/2 * Level + 5?

then if you do not affect healing or regeneration you are effectively destroying all ranger shout support builds, nerfing healing spring, troll unguent, Signet of the Wild, Fern Hound and any other pet/skill/trait giving us regeneration and or healing.
And for what? so our already mediocre boons can be overshadowed by any other profession in existence?
Atm the best boons rangers can share are swiftness, protection, regeneration, fury and might. That’s it. However the ways we apply these is rather meh, dodgy and situationaly (pet/spirit trigger). Contrary to guards/eles which can easily spam these without even putting in effort.

In PvE this wouldnt affect rangers, in WvW it would destroy them.

It should not change the way healing and regeneration is affected.

If it acts like old healing power, then it becomes a “power creep” stat, which is even more damaging to the game.

Gosh, why should it?
Healingpower is useless in PvE since you don’t have a healer.
With this change you would atleast have a reason to invest into this stat.

Prysin.8542:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Healing and regeneration shouldn’t be affected by the change. The other boons on the other hand should be affected.
As an example: the current Fury adds flat 20% critical chance.
You could change it to 5% without Boon Power, which would stack up to 30% with a high amount of Boon Power. Another example: Might is determined by the following formula: 0.375 * Level + 5. Why not change it to Boon Power * Level + 5 or Boon Power/2 * Level + 5?

then if you do not affect healing or regeneration you are effectively destroying all ranger shout support builds, nerfing healing spring, troll unguent, Signet of the Wild, Fern Hound and any other pet/skill/trait giving us regeneration and or healing.
And for what? so our already mediocre boons can be overshadowed by any other profession in existence?
Atm the best boons rangers can share are swiftness, protection, regeneration, fury and might. That’s it. However the ways we apply these is rather meh, dodgy and situationaly (pet/spirit trigger). Contrary to guards/eles which can easily spam these without even putting in effort.

In PvE this wouldnt affect rangers, in WvW it would destroy them.

It should not change the way healing and regeneration is affected.
And I’m not talking about the ranger in specific but about all professions.

Healing and regeneration shouldn’t be affected by the change. The other boons on the other hand should be affected.
As an example: the current Fury adds flat 20% critical chance.
You could change it to 5% without Boon Power, which would stack up to 30% with a high amount of Boon Power. Another example: Might is determined by the following formula: 0.375 * Level + 5. Why not change it to Boon Power * Level + 5 or Boon Power/2 * Level + 5?

Jocksy.3415:

wolfyrik.2017:

Permastow isn’t the same thing as getting rid of all pets. It would be an advantage to many players in certain environments and wouldn’t affect people like you at all. It wouldn’t harm your gameplay, it wouldn’t affect how you play, it wouldn’t prevent you from using the pet. It would only grant people the option of not using the pet, when the pet is a liability.

Risk: People expect rangers to stow their pets, thus playing with pets might be seen a lesser playstyle…

If the beastmaster ranger is viable in dungeons and on the same damagetier as the non-pet zerker ranger, this wont be happening.

Esmee.1067:

For orginized groups, yes, I don’t see an issue if it’s worked out well (I couldn’t quite understand your reply to Prysin’s concerns) but for PuGs this can be a painful option.

I couldn’t understand his concern. If they would rework Healing Power to Boon Power, Boon Power would still influence your healing as Healing Power did.

snow.8097:

i cant understand why People like to permastow the pet with no buff.
Okay i am against the idea of permastow for a dmg buff, then no one would like to use his pet because that buff would be probably too strong and most rangers will only run the “Aura” of one pet because its the strongest.
But i can understand when they dont like to fight with the pet but kitten it then let the pet on passive what is the Problem?
A permastow is a nerf for themselfes, EB cant Trigger, random benefits like a knockdown and conditions on foe are gone. Even when the pet is on passive Body blocking of projectiles are a nice benefit
I think some ranger here are overdramatic.

Playing a beastmaster is one of many playstyles the ranger is capable of. The pet is excelent if not necessary for a beastmaster. However this doesn’t apply to the other gamestyles. If you play archer or trapper there is simply no benefit you gain through using a pet over having it stowed and the damage reverted.
Also stowing your pet and regaining the damage is not OP if the AI is fixed.
You gain 100% of your damage but maybe you will be as effective with your pet as without. Furthermore you sacrifice the utility the pet offers. Yet we shouldn’t be forced to use the pet.

Prysin.8542:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Another idea would be to change Healing Power to Boon Power. Basically every boon would be affected by it. So if you want strong mightstacks or strong protection, you would have to invest points into Boon Power.

bad idea, it would hurt builds/skills that benefit stronly from healing power, such as most healing skills, Guard shout on rangers, traited shouts on warriors, water attunement on ele and so on.

Bad idea, bad bad idea

Why should it hurt healingpower builds? o.O
Healingpower would be the only boon which doesn’t get hit by this change.

Another idea would be to change Healing Power to Boon Power. Basically every boon would be affected by it. So if you want strong mightstacks or strong protection, you would have to invest points into Boon Power.

Fext.3614:

I can’t see them implementing something like that. Imagine all the meleers whinning… and for a reason. But I can imagine to have the kiting support on the short ragne shortbow, plus the range and spike damage skills (with some stuns, knockbacks, or condis thrown in) on the longbow. So you use a longbow at a distance and finish with a shortbow whatever lives long enough to get close to you. And this is the very moment when you start running (using roots and slows as you go) as well.

What remains to be solved is how to make longbow useful in dungeons and stacking. I’m affraid that unless somebody comes with some smart idea, lb will remain useful for soloing only.

I’m ok with the LB beeing not “the optimal” weapon for dungeons if it would excel in any other point in the game. I do like Yoh’s idea, you could also revert the range on shortbow. However the arrow speed would be still a mess. Also I don’t think you should run faster while channeling but slower. You shouldn’t be rooted, though.

Fext.3614:

RoyalPredator.9163:

Bow is not a sniper rifle… its more like a “DMR”.
I would rage delete my account if the autoattack ROF gets even slower O.o

Yeah. You are right. However how many ppl including devs know what DMR means? Everybory knows what is a “sniper rifle”, though.

About the autoattack ROF, well I care more about the dps. That signet of fire would likely proc less often, thats right.

The longbow should atleast have one “sniping” skill. I am thinking of a channeled skill with very long range (~3000), high damage, which would further increased by opening strike and the target beeing out of combat and a cripple to close the distance afterwards.

For me the ranger is either the guy who defends a fortress (where we currently suck at), or the guy who sneaks up on enemies to get a clean shot on them (this “gamestyle” is already implemented through Opening Strike. Yet, the effect is way too weak.)

Atherakhia.4086:

We don’t want Warriors in trenchcoats.

Yes, since we’re wearing medium armor, we should deal more damage than warriors.

Prysin.8542:

urdriel.8496:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

urdriel.8496:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Atherakhia.4086:

My only complaint about making Rapid Fire the solution to burst on the weapon is the skill is more useful as a tool you reserve for when an opponent comes in close or is attempting to stealth. With rapid fire becoming the burst skill you’ll likely just use it every cooldown because there’s still nothing to really follow it up with that isn’t a utility skill.

What if LB #3 would apply Revealed on the enemy? And if an enemy comes too close, you should swap the weapon anyways.

And, a trait that reveal people around when you swap weapons?

This may be too good, since you can swap your weapons every 9-10 seconds.
The reveal might be ok, but not combined with the effect Revealed.

Stealth is too good too ¬¬.

you see, if you can swap weapons every 8 seconds (normal duration is 9, -1 sec from warrior runes) you will effectively with just a rune set, be able to destroy ALL stealth builds.

now, even if it was 4 seconds revealed on a 25 second timer, it would still be very strong.

That was my concern exactly.
And it’s 10 seconds standart. Source

urdriel.8496:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Atherakhia.4086:

My only complaint about making Rapid Fire the solution to burst on the weapon is the skill is more useful as a tool you reserve for when an opponent comes in close or is attempting to stealth. With rapid fire becoming the burst skill you’ll likely just use it every cooldown because there’s still nothing to really follow it up with that isn’t a utility skill.

What if LB #3 would apply Revealed on the enemy? And if an enemy comes too close, you should swap the weapon anyways.

And, a trait that reveal people around when you swap weapons?

This may be too good, since you can swap your weapons every 9-10 seconds.
The reveal might be ok, but not combined with the effect Revealed.

Atherakhia.4086:

My only complaint about making Rapid Fire the solution to burst on the weapon is the skill is more useful as a tool you reserve for when an opponent comes in close or is attempting to stealth. With rapid fire becoming the burst skill you’ll likely just use it every cooldown because there’s still nothing to really follow it up with that isn’t a utility skill.

What if LB #3 would apply Revealed on the enemy? And if an enemy comes too close, you should swap the weapon anyways.

I was always wondering about the “Your pet gains X boons on crit hit”. Why do I want to trait for my pet getting boons (30% of my damage) if other classes getting those boons for themselfes (100% of their damage).

You shouldn’t be punished for beeing afk, more than getting killed by mobs.
But you shouldn’t get rewards either.
My suggestion: AFK-mode. If you’re doing nothing without AFK-mode, you will get kicked within 5-10 minutes. While in AFK-mode, you wont get rewards, but you’re a low priority target for mobs and you wont get kicked that fast.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

I don’t know if I should like this or not. As Chrispy has already pointed out in this thread, the signets are actually pretty strong. They probably have to be toned down and I really don’t think a nerf shouldn’t be the outcome of this thread.

Darksteel.8412:

In my honest opinion…the ranger doesn’t need any buffs at all, in general it’s pve player that complains about the ranger… but that’s only due to tunnelvision. in pvp/wvw the ranger is a very good class, and has some if not one the best condi removal traits in game and is quite capable of soloing any class. It might not be a toptier pve class…but it’s up to par with the so called toptier classes in pvp/wvw….imo stop the crying and play a little better

Not sure if this is a troll or not…
Seriously the existence of this thread alone is a predictor of how bad this class is. You will hardly find anyone that shares your opinion.

thefantasticg.3984:

Yeah, and there were bad changes changes as well like nerfing S&R and Shortbow range.

That being said you can read where I have stated multiple times in the Ranger subforum that I love my Ranger, I just hate (if not loathe) the pet. A Ranger without a pet is not a Warrior. I know. I have both. I have put at least a few hundred hours on my warrior. It is not a Ranger without a pet. If you think that it is I can only surmise that you have never rolled a Warrior… or thief for that matter as that’s just as different (although I do find D/D thief quite fun, just not AS fun as a s+wh ranger). The pet needs an overhaul, not the Ranger. I recently retraited away from the BM build (after trying it for a month after the last round of pet patches) because the pet still does many things I don’t want it to do… like run through red circles then stand in more. A melee ranger does not have the pet control options that a ranged ranger does. If I’m in melee with my 1h sword and I recall pet, guess where it goes? Yup. A few units away and just soaks up aoe or random hits. I’ll use ’em for the buff, which is why I run mostly stalker and red moa, and that is it.

He gets it. The ranger isn’t tied to his pet. If they remove the pet, they will just destroy the beastmaster aspect, not more.

Sandpit.3467:

They absolutely don’t want you to stow your pet so I can’t see them rewarding you with a buff for doing the one thing they don’t want. They might consider a heavy debuff for doing it though.

Ok, then simply remove the pet. That would be the worse solutuion. Beastmasters would be gone, classmechanic would be gone. So why do you want to remove the pet over making it optional?

kyubi.3620:

what of those people who actualy use the pet on purpose because they are build centralized around it? I dont mind perma stow for those Animal cruelty lovers as long as having the pet out is utherly more rewarding then stowing it when traited right.

If you’ve traited to play eastmaster, you should be able to do so. In return, if you’ve traited to play as an archer, you should also be able to do so without a pet eating up 30% of your damage.

SkiTz.4590:

This is a thread that everyone in the forums knew was going to be BIG…. having one freaking person assigned to answering in this thread was a huge fault of anet AGAIN…

I don’t understand, you have actual developers and class design people and not a SINGLE one can make a post. This thread has been up for what, the entire work week?

You are telling me that this anet dev team is soooooo busy they cant possibly take one hour of their entire work week to post a few things on this CDI?

It’s just flat out disappointing. I’m not even mad anymore though, we all knew where this was heading when anet decided we will remain a pet first class, even though we have absolutely no intentions on fixing the core issues…

There are people in this CDI that are posting great suggestions and taking their time out of the day to make such a committment. Where is the anet side of this committment?
almost 2 years of little to no feedback for this broken class and it still continues..i’m in awe of how little they care.

And please , if i see one more post red saying “just because we don’t post anything doesn’t mean we didn’t read it”…. umm it means you completely ignored it (see, past 1.5 years of feedback for rangers, this thread, etc)

This playerbase is doing soo much to try and help fix the myriad of problems yet anet, in my point of view, devs are just sitting their twiddling there thumbs (i’m making this on the fact there is been no feedback at all from a dev).

I’m sure Allie is doing all she can, I am by no means angry at her, just the people behind the steel curtain

I literally can visualize Allie sitting in a room with the devs trying to sum up this whole thread. It’s ridiculous.

I think the Devs haven’t realized yet that the pet is incompatible with any playstyle but beastmaster. There may be some small niches for the pet such as tanker if you try to hit an enemy from afar with bows. Yet we gain just small advatages and huge disadvantages by beeing tied to the pet.

Joiry.2504:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Joiry.2504:

When Rangers were revealed as the Pet Class, Anet basically said they’d make the profession the premiere pet class. Unlike GW1 were pets were optional but also weak. But what has really changed since GW1 – in terms of functionality. I don’t think tweaking numbers on pets is really going to help the fundamental problems.

Comparison between GW1 and GW2

• attack/return, passive/active – basically the same
• pet skills – removed from ranger skillbar in GW2. No longer takes skill slots, but no more choice in skill, no control except F2.
• two pets can be swapped in GW2 (the real difference between the two games)

That does not seem like a premiere pet class to me. Again, numbers can be tweaked and buffed, but the class mechanic is weak functionally. In all the pro-pet posts, its all about pet management – but there’s so little to manage. The class mechanic is something you need to compensate for, not something that enhances your gameplay like other professions. Plus, most other professions can have great builds with no or minimal investment in their class mechanic traitline. Rangers, in order to get acceptable performance out of their pet, need to invest a lot in Beast Mastery.

In short, if Rangers are going to be a Pet Class, then make them a real pet class. A class whose mechanic requires skill to excel with, not skill to merely compensate for. Either the pet mechanic has to go or it needs a major overall. There’s lots of things that can be done, many touched in various ways in this thread. But no single one will help, pets need a revamp.
[…]

If they do so, they should separate the “pet” type and the “archer” type of the class in two different classes. Right now the ranger serves both functions.

A split would not help in the argument I make. Whatever Pet Class was split off would continue to have the same problems unless a major overhaul to the pet system occurred. My argument is, the pet system should shine, it should truly be the class mechanic. The thing you get skilled at in order to excel.

If Anet doesn’t have the resources to truly do this with a ranger pet, then it doesn’t have the resources to do it with a whole new class. Maybe long term they could work on a Druid/Shaman or something, but such a thing I bet would take at least a year given there are other aspects to the game that also need attention.

You say as long as the pet AI gets no major overhaul, the pet will be unreliable. I go even further saying no AI will ever be that good that you can truly rely on it.
Therefore I have suggested that the pet shouldn’t offer core-mechanics but only additional mechanics, so you wont be on a disadvantage if your pet is unreliable.

I can understand your point of having a “working” AI as classmechanic, but that should be the only classmechanic. Yet the ranger defines himself not only through his pet but through many different aspects, such as trapper, archer or whatever this spiritsummonig theme is. I think the pet as damage component doesn’t work well with the listed playstyles. Concretely, the pet offers no advantage to the listed playstyle, yet we still have to manage the disadvantages the pet has.

Joiry.2504:

When Rangers were revealed as the Pet Class, Anet basically said they’d make the profession the premiere pet class. Unlike GW1 were pets were optional but also weak. But what has really changed since GW1 – in terms of functionality. I don’t think tweaking numbers on pets is really going to help the fundamental problems.

Comparison between GW1 and GW2

• attack/return, passive/active – basically the same
• pet skills – removed from ranger skillbar in GW2. No longer takes skill slots, but no more choice in skill, no control except F2.
• two pets can be swapped in GW2 (the real difference between the two games)

That does not seem like a premiere pet class to me. Again, numbers can be tweaked and buffed, but the class mechanic is weak functionally. In all the pro-pet posts, its all about pet management – but there’s so little to manage. The class mechanic is something you need to compensate for, not something that enhances your gameplay like other professions. Plus, most other professions can have great builds with no or minimal investment in their class mechanic traitline. Rangers, in order to get acceptable performance out of their pet, need to invest a lot in Beast Mastery.

In short, if Rangers are going to be a Pet Class, then make them a real pet class. A class whose mechanic requires skill to excel with, not skill to merely compensate for. Either the pet mechanic has to go or it needs a major overall. There’s lots of things that can be done, many touched in various ways in this thread. But no single one will help, pets need a revamp.
[…]

If they do so, they should separate the “pet” type and the “archer” type of the class in two different classes. Right now the ranger serves both functions.

Holland.9351:

If the Ranger class it supposed to be a sustained damage class without burst nor area of effect, then its single target damage should be reliable. Ranger damage is very unreliable:

Pet damage output is unreliable. Pets need to path and miss their attacks often.

[…]

The problem with the pet is, since it’s controlled by an AI, that it never will be reliable, it never will be as good as you, the player. You can improve the code as long as you want, an AI will always be a risc. And our classmechanic shouldn’t be tied to riscs.
Basically, whenever the ranger hits a target and the pet wont because it’s either running around, misses it’s attack, beeing stuck in an animation, getting CC’d while the ranger is evading the CC or just hits one enemy while the ranger hitting multiple enemies, th ranger is losing damage. Therefore the pet shouldn’t be entrusted with a core mechanic of the game, dealing needed damage.
If the pet would deal additional damage, that would be no problem, because you wont lose anything beside bonuses if the pet unreliable.
The solution to this is, that the ranger should deal all the core damage, while the pet deals only little, additional damage.
To keep the pet still as a threat for the enemy, the pet could apply vulnerability per hit, so the enemy is still better off, if he manages to kite the pet.

I will simply become a billionare, take over ArenaNet and force them to rework the ranger.

Aria.5940:

The best thing I could recommend is for the devs to read through
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Ranger-Balance-PvP-WvW-PvE-PvX/page/9#post3631386

It has a lot of great suggestions and has been kept on track for ages.

Are you linking to the single post in particular? Or to the whole thread? If so, you might edit the link not pointing on a particular post.

Since the CDI thread isn’t the best place to gather feedback, I’ll repost a suggestion of mine:

The Ranger and his additional pet

Pets need to assist their master by performing desired functions at a level of effectiveness that recognized the limits of the current AI. An AI will never be as good as a normal player. Therefore its very risky to entrust the pet with core mechanics such as beeing a huge part of the overall damage output.

The Ranger should be the principle damage-dealer as a base-line (having the damage potential previously expected of their companions restored to them). This keeps damage potential properly linked to gear selection and provides better parity with other classes.

The pet’s main purpose would be providing utility (healing, cleansing, CC, etc.). Traits can further develop the companion’s role or convert them into a second, lesser DPS threat, but the Ranger is never forced to rely on AI for damage.

Pet skills need to be sufficiently strong to offset their limitations. For example, players seek to position themselves to affect multiple targets. Pet can’t do this, so their skills might hit a 360 degree arc and/or have a greater radius to make up for the weakness in placement.

According to these proposals, the pet will be still usefull and hasn’t to be replaced, since all the aspects the pet provides are additions, which are nice to have but not mandatory in order to be competitive.

If you have questions or suggestions for improvements, feel free to post them.