Guild Wars 2

Thaddeus.4891:

I agree with Obtena here. The only place where damage is a defining factor in the success of a content is when there is a timer attached to it and there is very few of those in the game. You get some world bosses, Silverwaste and the Grawls in Volcanic fractal. But other than that, the vast vast majority of the game doesn’t need anybody to reach a minimum damage to succeed.

Haha yeah, that’s really what I was referring to but wasn’t quite clear enough. I updated my post but just moments too late for your reply. My overall opinion is in agreement with the sentiment that max damage isn’t the be-all-end-all of the game. That’s one of reasons I play this game.

Obtena.7952:

xinkspillx.3914:

Granted, with that said there are certainly encounters in the game where that 45% damage loss could mean the difference between success and defeat.

Is that really true though? If it was, how do we explain people soloing dungeons? If damage loss was such a significant factor in the content, then in theory, no amount of skill should allow people to solo it.

I was really thinking something more like Tequatl than a dungeon, to be honest. I guess I should have made that a little clearer. Lack of damage definitely has an impact on this world boss at the very least. I was thinking about those pesky timers. XD

arenta.2953:

xinkspillx.3914:

While the idea of extracting an ally from danger is kind of cool, I feel like this skill would almost certainly be used for trolling more than anything else.

it exists for necro

necro can use shroud skill 4 to pull up to 4 downed allies to it

Shortly after my first post, I suggested making it work for downed allies only. I agree that if it worked more like the Necro’s skill then it would be quite useful. The difference is that it would be a more active skill that wouldn’t require a specific trait to use.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

It is actually quite amazing how much more important tactics are compaired to gear. At base, Zerker only does 45% more damage than soldiers (roughly, depends on class/build). So if an enemy would survive for 5 seconds against a full zerker team, it would then only live 7.25 seconds on a full soldier team.

What keeps players alive and what kills enemies fast is tactics. How well you stack boons, what weapons and rotations you use, if you have the right utilities and traits for the encounter, etc.

I agree that, to the credit of the devs, it is really nice to see that stats aren’t necessarily the defining factor and so we’ve managed to not end up with situations in which players are obsessed with things like “gear-score.” Granted, with that said there are certainly encounters in the game where that 45% damage loss could mean the difference between success and defeat. It would still be nice to see some further balancing, but reminders like yours that we play a game in which gear isn’t the ultimate deciding factor are welcome.

I think the best possible option would ideally be for zerker and sinister gear to present a more significant risk vs reward scenario while defensive stats were made more appealing. If more reason was given to take passive defensive stats like vitality or toughness, I should think zerker and sinister would be all the more rewarding for players who have the ability to stay alive with proper use of active defense in order to squeeze out even more damage. Sure, this means that zerker and sinister would be more difficult to play without dying, but shouldn’t we be seeing that sort of trade-off in a game that offers defensive stats anyways? It seems odd to me right now that my zerker guardian has as much, if not more, chance of surviving than he does in soldier’s gear. xD Don’t get me wrong, I run zerker not because it’s the “meta” but really because it’s hard to deny how effective it is right now.

This balancing would hopefully shut down many of these discussions (or at least limit them)!
Still, as others have said . . . bad players are bad players regardless of gear and sometimes it’s easier to blame others than take a blow to one’s pride, I guess! :P Sorry for your bad experience.

I’m on board with this, it sounds pretty fun. Certainly a martial arts class that likely would have gone by the “Monk” moniker in any other game. Naturally with the history of the Monk profession in GW1 another name was needed. I think the focus on dashing could be great.

I know a lot of people have misgivings because of the elite’s relation to the previous versions of the Acrobatics line, but that doesn’t bother me much and I can see why ANet made the decision to do it this way.

The sad truth of it is that zerker really is the best choice for PvE right now (in most cases) because of the way the game works. I’m one of those true believers in diversity and every day I hope ANet gets closer and closer to balancing the game to where a greater number of stat combinations are not only viable, but strong in their own ways. I think this would truly help to strengthen the lasting appeal of the game, especially in regards to how this could make certain traits and builds even more usable than they are now.
For now, however, that’s not quite the case and there are, unfortunately, a number of people that enforce zerker meta only groups as the only way to go. Still, that’s their prerogative and as others have said, the best solution is to simply surround yourself with players that you don’t feel have toxic attitudes. Everyone has their right to play their own way and you’ll probably find the vast majority of players are willing to welcome alternative builds.

That might work, but would also really limit the worth of the skill beyond Dungeons or PvP. Maybe as an alternative it would be better if it only effected Downed allies. It wouldn’t really be possible to troll with it in that case.

While the idea of extracting an ally from danger is kind of cool, I feel like this skill would almost certainly be used for trolling more than anything else.

I’m happy to see the changes to projectile speed, that should make things much better!
I’m definitely on board with the idea of slowing down Deflecting Shot and making it a reflect instead of just upping the strength . . . that feels like a cheap (or at least temporary) fix.

Trait fixes still need some work though. I would truly love to see Hunter’s Fortification done away with entirely as it feels rather tacked on, out of place and completely dependent upon also taking Virtues line. Instead I think it would be really fantastic to have a Grandmaster trait that concerns a unique, but seemingly unappreciated aspect of the Guardian: the Ward.

As Longbow is the 3rd weapon with a Ward, it would make sense for the Dragonhunter and would really increase synergy with other play styles (for those who don’t remember, Staff and Hammer are the other two weapons).

I’m not 100% sure what that trait should be, but perhaps something with multiple effects such as causing Traps to count as Wards upon being triggered and making Wards grant allies a small amount of Retaliation. This would then reinforce the idea of controlling the battlefield that Wards (and DH) seem to be going for without being particularly overpowered.

A trait such as this would then create even more synergy with the Virtues line due to its Retaliation traits.

All 3 weapons with Wards also have Symbols so Zeal would also have a natural synergy, but even a weapon such as GS would work well through stacking Retaliation because of its symbol. (Mace already has some nice synergy because of Defender’s Dogma, at least in theory).

Granting retaliation with this trait would then also give Dragonhunter some interplay with Radiance as well through traits like Radiant Retaliation and Retribution.

Valor would even work well with this trait because of Altruistic Healing and again, Defender’s Dogma.

Naturally Honor with Write of Persistence and Honorable Staff would benefit as well.

I’m definitely not suggesting making the Retaliation amount overpowered by any means, but maybe something rather balanced like the 1s application of Symbol of Wrath. Maybe this idea sounds a little powerful, but I can’t see it being any more so than Chronomancer or Berserker, potentially. Either way, I’d still love to see a trait making better use of Wards.

Just my suggestion, I guess. XD

TL;DR: Longbow changes sound decent so far, but would like to see slower, reflecting Deflecting Shot. More than that though, I want to see a Grandmaster trait that makes traps count as Wards on activation and grant allies short duration Retaliation (sort of like Symbol of Wrath), instead of the horrible Hunter’s Fortification. This would have a lot of synergy (I break down a lot of examples about).

Could use buff.

Synergy needs increasing.

Auras are awesome.

Warhorn isn’t bad.

Better than Necro. XD

Animations are sick.

BWE changes good.

Chronomancer feels fun.

Wells need buff?

I hadn’t noticed that update to the thread, thanks for sharing. I hope that we see a similar fix to Scepter before too long.

Well since they’ve never bothered to fix this issue with the scepter, I’d say it’s “functioning as intended.” >.>

Not worth it.
and
Little trait synergy.
and
Worst of elites.
but
Maybe almost decent?
and
Could use creativity?
and
Dragonhunter skins suck.

But seriously, with the good and bad taken into consideration with all of the elite specializations (and as a Guardian main), Dragonhunter just didn’t feel as fun to play. So maybe the best would be:

Guardian feels lost . . .

I was extremely pleased with (almost) everything I experienced during the beta weekend event. – I, surprisingly, did not encounter any bugs that I’m aware of (save for a time when I endlessly flipped on a mushroom without going anywhere haha).
- The efforts taken to bring the story to life feel right and I was excited to see that the story seems to be pushing into more interesting territory than the base game ever did (Living Story season 2 excluded).
- What we have seen of Verdant brink so far has me really excited. I didn’t care for Dry Top at all and enjoyed Silverwastes for the most part and I feel like Verdant Brink is already making use of the best of both of those maps and much more.
- I felt that each of the elite specializations had the potential to be a lot of fun, but certainly needed some balancing and tweaks (which I’ve already mentioned elsewhere).
- During a previous event when I was able to try the Revenant I was extremely underwhelmed, but the increases to damage have made it a profession I am very eager to play.
- There’s only one thing that I would say greatly troubles me after this BWE, and that’s that we still have to wait to experience more!

I’m feeling like maybe the issue isn’t the overall difficulty of the mobs, but maybe some individual ones? I felt like most of the enemies were in a good place, but there were a few I agree are perhaps a little too powerful in some situations (even when appropriately countering their mechanics), such as the Snipers.
I very much do not want to see a drastic reduction in the strength of enemies, as to me a wild land with fiercer enemies feels more appropriate when compared to the often traversed countrysides of Tyria. I’m sure more balancing is on the way, however, and likely some tweaking to make certain enemies further focused on mechanics as opposed to raw power.
It may also be worth taking into consideration that many of the profession mechanics players are making use of are still being balanced as well (I know I felt a little weak as a Tempest without focusing on auras).

My thoughts more or less mirror the majority:

- Virtues need to be instant and usable during Renewed Focus.
- Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet, but I feel like Virtue of Resolve’s range is too short and overall it makes the skill feel cumbersome and ineffective.
- Longbow seems pretty good all around, but I’m not so sure about the root on skill 2 with the level of damage. I’d say either increase the damage or lose the root.
- Longbow auto projectile speed is a little too slow/misses too often, similar to Scepter. [Update]: Auto attack misses at an insane frequency and the issue with both weapons really needs to be fixed immediately.
- Traps are okay overall, but seriously need an increase to effectiveness. None of them feel particularly strong (Procession of Blades is underwhelming at best) and that includes the elite. I like the effects that are already in play, but think they all need to be a bit stronger.
- I’d like to see traps gain ground targeting (maybe as a combined effect with Piercing Light trait if inborn ground targeting would be too strong).
- Dulled Senses trait is frankly stupid right now because it forces you to take Heavy Light and that makes it feel counterproductive to ANet’s attempts to streamline trait choices (such as they did with Spirit Weapons and Meditations).

That’s more or less where I’m at right now. I plan on dropping some more time into the DH and adding more later. So far I’m feeling underwhelmed and not enjoying the feel of this elite specialization as much as the others (which is sad as I main Guardian and have since 3-day head-start.) I’m concerned Guardian is losing its way with this elite specialization and traveling down an odd choice of path. :/

I do not main a Mesmer, but so far, of the elite specs, I’m enjoying Chronomancer the most for how dynamic it feels. It certainly feels very strong, but in what I have experienced of Verdant Brink, it’s the only elite spec that feels like it has an appropriate level of strength for the content. I’m feeling as if I can focus on playing to the mechanics of some of the mobs.
So far I have a more favorable opinion of alacrity than I initially did and haven’t really found it useless, despite not really focusing on it.
I was very iffy on shield when it was announced, but have actually really fallen in love with it, especially with Phantasmal Defender.
I don’t feel like I’ve played with it enough yet to go into specifics about it, but I’m enjoying the experience and the possibilities it provides.

So, first of all I want to point out I don’t main an Ele and cede any points I make to the opinions of more experienced players. That being said, I’m enjoying the Tempest, but definitely agree that it needs some serious tweaks. I agree with what seems to be the general consensus concerning Overloads being feeling a bit weak and not being able to swap elements without interrupting the casts is no good. They’re also very easy to interrupt by outside sources, I feel.
I enjoy running an Auramancer Ele so Tempest shouts naturally work well for me, but feel much less effective otherwise. Warhorn seems fun, but maybe a bit weak? I think several skills could use a bit of a rework or buff to strength or CD of some sort. I haven’t taken the Tempest into PvP yet so I’ll avoid commenting on that for now.

I REALLY want to like the Reaper, but I feel like the preview we were given doesn’t line up with the reality so far. It doesn’t really feel like there’s anything to dread. xD

Attacks and shouts don’t feel like they have the weight the preview suggested they might and overall I’ve felt like the Reaper is a bit less effective than the other elite specs in Verdant Brink. I’ve yet to take the Reaper into PvP, however (I’m not sure if I would expect much).
Damage doesn’t really seem high enough for the GS (at least with auto, maybe?) and the chill effect feels like it should probably be longer. I’m not sure I’ve tested shouts in the proper environments yet, but so far I’m feeling rather underwhelmed by them as well. I’m not feeling like I’m seeing a strong impact from any of them, whereas with Wells and other skill types I do.
I was hoping for greater impact from chill (especially with the new traits) and as others have said, it seems hardly noticeable.
Reaper Shroud, on the other hand, feels great and I’m really enjoying it, but GS and shouts just feel less than stellar to me at the moment.

Okay . . . so while I’m still not crazy on the name, I totally retract my previous statements about ANet dropping the ball with this spec. I think the way they introduced it was not good compared to the Chronomancer, but after really taking some time to think about it and see it in action, I’m really quite pleased. Sure, I was hoping for a Paragon for reasons of lore, and I would still love to have seen that, but I’m happy with what we got, even if I wasn’t at first. I can admit, I jumped the gun with my reaction and was wrong. . . . still should change the name though, haha.

I would definitely love an elite spec utilizing tomes!

Mada.5319:

xinkspillx.3914:

You should actually read my entire post. I addressed all of that. Yes, player characters could make use of secondary professions and NPCs could as well, but in the lore typically what counted was only any NPCs primary profession and Thackeray straight up changed his, something I think nearly no one else could do.

I’m also not suggesting a name change to Paragon as I agree it would make no sense now. My point was just that ANet COULD have made the Elite spec Paragon in a way that made sense.

You are trying to say that just because one GW1 NPC changed his profession from one associated with bows to one associated with spears somehow means that a GW2 profession unrelated to spears changing to one with a bow can be called a Paragon.

Do you see how your argument falls a part here? If anything, your argument supports the Guardian’s elite spec being called something related to rangers, which is exactly what Anet did anyway.

Also, in what way was the Paragon important to the development of guardians? Many of the guardian’s skills are old gw1 monk and warrior skills. Stand Your Ground is the only old paragon skill.

No, that is not what I’m trying to say. I simply meant that ANet could easily have made the decision to create a Paragon-based Elite spec and easily justify it without needing to venture further into Elona. That and a Paragon wielding a bow would make sense within the lore and have a direct connection with a notable NPC in the current game through which to introduce it.

As for what the Paragon had to do with the development of the Guardian, this is not my conjecture, it is actual stated fact by a developer:

“With the turmoil in Elona and the spread of the Order of Whispers into other lands, more Paragon teaching showed elsewhere in Tyria. These teachings melded with other traditions, and over time, the guardians and their abilities can be found throughout the world and among all the races. They are not tied to a particular race, philosophy, or group of gods but rather to a larger concept of proactive defense, of taking the fight to a foe and protecting those you fight alongside while appealing equally to humanity’s defensive nature and the charr’s desire to rule the battlefield.” – Jeff Grubb

Mada.5319:

Paragon makes no sense. The guardian elite spec doesn’t have chants, echos or use spears. Paragons are also from Elona.

xinkspillx.3914:

TL;DR: An important NPC Paragon DID use a longbow in GW1.

Irrelevant. All professions in GW1 could use all weapons.

You should actually read my entire post. I addressed all of that. Yes, player characters could make use of secondary professions and NPCs could as well, but in the lore typically what counted was only any NPCs primary profession and Thackeray straight up changed his, something I think nearly no one else could do.

I’m also not suggesting a name change to Paragon as I agree it would make no sense now. My point was just that ANet COULD have made the Elite spec Paragon in a way that made sense.

This isn’t a direct reply to anyone in particular, but I’ve noticed a few instances in this thread where posters have claimed that a longbow paragon wouldn’t be accurate, but this isn’t entirely true.
I should state first that I don’t think the Dragonhunter should be renamed Paragon, that would make no sense. I just think ANet could have given us a Paragon and dropped the ball by not doing it and below are some of my reasons for why I think it would have made sense.
Logan Thackeray, the most prominent Guardian NPC in the game is the descendent of Kieran Thackeray, an NPC that can eventually join your party as a hero in Guild Wars 1. Kieran Thackeray actually could have established a unique precedent as he was a Ranger that eventually became a Paragon, thus actually becoming a character recorded in the lore as possessing both.
While yes, any player character could achieve this through the secondary profession system of the original Guild Wars, Kieran Thackeray was unique in this regard among NPCs.
As Paragons were an important part of the development of the Guardian, I think it would have been well within reason to have seen Logan rediscover some of this knowledge in some respect.
Besides this, unlike what we have seen with the Dragonhunter so far, Paragons in Guild Wars 1 actually had wings when using Chants. Unless I’ve suddenly become senile I feel that Chants more or less equal Mantras which, had they been given to Guardians, would have been in perfect harmony with ANet’s attempts to bring established skill types to other classes to increase synergy. Not to mention it would have made sense to have the wings appear when Mantras are charged and disappear upon CD.
Oh and what is up with the new virtues? SPEAR of Justice, WINGS of Resolve and SHIELD of Courage . . . seriously those three things are what defined the entire Paragon aesthetic . . . ANet making use of them in this way with the Dragonhunter just feels like salt in our wounds.

TL;DR: An important NPC Paragon DID use a longbow in GW1.

P.S. Oh, and Paragon’s association with Elona need not be as significant a factor in regards to an Elite spec, as I thought it was generally accepted that Guardians were a direct result of the spread of the Paragon discipline? Isn’t this something a Dev actually stated?

bigbobpataki.4796:

xinkspillx.3914:

I’m not sure if any other choice for a Guardian elite spec could have been more appropriate than a LB wielding rebranded Paragon, but I do feel that Dragonhunter should have been a spec for either the Ranger or the Warrior. :/ I am disappointed, but hoping the devs will still wow me.

I’m actually pretty happy that warrior/ranger didn’t get dragonhunter because there is no way that could work as an elite spec. What weapon that warrior/ranger doesn’t have yet that could make them into a dragonhunter? A dragonhunter warrior with a pistol seems pretty wimpy. There is no way those two classes getting dragonhunter could have differentiated the elite enough from the base class to call it an elite spec.

Yeah, I’ll agree with that, I listed Ranger and Warrior more as way of making a point that I didn’t feel like the Dragonhunter spec really fit Guardian. I mean, I understand the thinking some other people have been suggesting in regards to Braham taking up Eir’s bow . . . but it still doesn’t really feel right for the Guardian, at least to me.

I feel ANet dropped the ball here and missed a chance to connect Guardian to the lore of Tyria in a meaningful way. I think Paragon, or more appropriately some natural evolution of it, should have been the choice for an elite spec. and I can explain my reasoning.
In Guild Wars 1, Paragon Chants gave characters angelic wings and obviously as we’ve seen in the teaser image this was an aesthetic that the devs wanted to incorporate, however Paragons at least had a meaningful relationship with those wings beyond one single skill. Chants could have been given to the Guardian elite spec in the form of Mantras (like Mesmer, and afterall chant = mantra), thus allowing the devs to stick to their idea of carrying skill classifications over to new specs.
Now, I don’t mean to suggest Guardian Paragon spec should have been given spears, however, as I really like the idea of the Guardian with a LB. In fact, Guild Wars lore would have completely supported the idea of a Paragon elite spec wielding a LB. Logan Thackeray, the most iconic Guardian NPC in the game, is great grandson (or great-great) to Gwen and Kieran Thackeray. By the time Kieran Thackeray joins your party as a hero in Guild Wars 1, he has transitioned from a bow wielding ranger, to a Paragon, setting a precedent for a notable warrior in lore to have posessed the skills necessary to wield a LB as a Paragon. I think it’s safe to say that since the background of the Guardian is that the Paragon’s teaching eventually spread and morphed into a new discipline that would become the Guardian we know today, Kieran’s influence would have to have been seen somewhere (particularly within the Thackeray family).
I’m not sure if any other choice for a Guardian elite spec could have been more appropriate than a LB wielding rebranded Paragon, but I do feel that Dragonhunter should have been a spec for either the Ranger or the Warrior. :/ I am disappointed, but hoping the devs will still wow me.