Guild Wars 2

I agree with making things simple. Deathmatch, however is the anti-esport. Watch a WoW arena match, and observe how you become bored to death.

Killing other players always needs to be a secondary objective. Look at the most popular esports today, MOBA’s. You can win the game even if you get fewer player kills. That makes for exciting momentum swings, and come from behind wins.

Who would watch American Football if the only way you scored was by tackling other players? Who would watch hockey/soccer/basketball if the only way to score was dribbling past other players? Who would watch baseball if it was just a home run derby all the time?

In every team sport one team can win by AVOIDING direct conflict with the other team. A football team that is weaker and smaller than the other team can win by getting rid of the ball quickly and using speed and strategy to avoid the other team, a slower less technically skilled hockey/soccer/basketball team can win by passing around the other team and scoring, and a baseball team not good at hitting can force walks and still win even without getting a hit.

These aspects of team sports make games exciting. They make seeming underdogs come out on top. This is not to say direct conflict in a sport is bad, in most cases it means that a team will win, but it is not necessary.

We need to stop asking for deathmatch as if it will make this game a popular esport.

Cloudo.7315:

Anyone tried runes of mesmer paired with new Sigil of Paralyzation. Would this give some crazy daze durations from Tactical Strike and daze from Sleight of Hand? (and Mace Head Crack for that matter).

This used to be my favorite build: runes of the mesmer + sigil of paralyzation giving a 3 second daze from tactical strike. That combined with a 3 second revealed made it possible to really disable people (if you could land everything). Then they reduced the daze duration of tactical strike, and made the runes and sigils not work together (and they broke them for months and months not letting either effect anything). Sad times for me.

I tested them both out after this patch just in case. Runes of the mesmer does increase
the daze from tactical strike, but sigil of paralyzation does not effect it. The daze increases from 1.5 seconds to 1.995 seconds (based on math, I didn’t use a stop watch or count frames). Not nearly as enticing as it was in it’s glory days.

I think I’ll test out a blind on stealth + daze build just for fun though.

Of course I just realized that you might be asking from a WvW standpoint, and my anecdote/testing was from spvp.

What: Nerf Death – When a thief dies he should explode doing massive AOE damage to his own team

Why: Thief death is OP. Every time a thief dies, he resets the fight.

ThatShortGuy.4672:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Vena.8436:

Now here’s something I haven’t seen answered/asked:

SoloQ does the team that wins continue or have to requeue?
If the above is “continues” do they eventually get through into TeamQ, ala GW1 RA -> TA?

Your roster will disband once the match is over.

Is there a reason why? Seems more appropriate to keep the team together to encourage the feel of success.

If you keep the team together, then you’re not SoloQ-ing anymore, and you then have an unfair advantage over the other actual SoloQ players.

I like this idea, but I think it would be very difficult to keep track of which node is at which stage.

What if instead of point decay, it just gave 10 points (or whatever amount) for flipping a node? I think that would achieve the same goal.

This is anecdotal evidence, but I had some good luck with the pathing for SR to the point that I thought it might’ve been fixed. I’ve only played a few games (and now I’m at work), but it seems like it’s working better.

It still ports you back when you’re stunned, but you stay stunned. I thought it was pretty dumb, but it really doesn’t hurt as much as I expected.

I still don’t know why it was nerfed though.

S/D:
Dodge charging clones, CnD off of other clones as often as possible, tactical strike out of stealth to keep them dazed, keep a stunbreak up for when you need it, and keep your pressure up (FS/LS to keep boons off of them if that’s the build they have). If they port away, and you can’t catch them, then you won the battle for the node.

With D/D the strategy would be similar, but without tactical strike and FS/LS (damage rather than control).

This is really frustrating

frans.8092:

tac.2167:

(deleted) eh not worth it.

You can delete the post using the trashcan icon.

fancy

frans.8092:

Jumper.9482:

Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved.

I stopped reading right there. What can better prove the idiocy behind the anti-thief QQ then this suggestion of yours

All classes increase their Critical Damage with 1% per trait point, or their Precision with 10 points per trait point. Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Thief have Precision on one trait line combined, making Dueling, Air Magic, Skirmishing and Critical Strikes equal in stat gain.

Now convince me that the remainder of your ramblings is worth my time.

You should probably just read it.

Ababmer.8419:

With all due respect you’re trying to be something you’re not by making pvp a structured affair with no gear progression, this isn’t COD, this is a MMO, your game simply isn’t, by genre, capable of having a pvp system without a gear progression that is more than cosmetic. Your pvp is dying because people don’t care enough, there is no incentive, ‘balanced fun’ isn’t something an MMO can truly achieve so just remember what you are for gods sake and re-do PvP gear for use in PvE and and PvP and make it have stats and remove the auto leveling – split the PvP into level brackets.

Thanks.

Sounds like a terrible idea.

I just report everything (unless done in a joking manner), there’s no reason for being a jerk. The more you report the better the community will get, I say.

That was great!

Mrbig.8019:

dancing dagger

5 secs cripple+ 5 secs poison

bring the damage down, leave ini cost as it is

C&D

remove vulnerability, reaplace it with cripple+weakness ( 5 secs each)

the reasoning is that since /D thieves usually have no gap closers ( aside S/D, but that’s another story, mostly due to sword being hipster) , /D thieves would have more chance to close the gap thanks to costant cripple and thanks to costant weakness.

Imo they should totally rework DD, but well, who knows.

I like the idea of adding more utility to both of these skills, but cripple+weakness on CnD wouldn’t be balanced. When a thief CnD’s me, the first thing I do is dodge, and then use whatever I can to get farther away to prevent the backstab (or other stealth attack). If I’m crippled and weakened, then I’m not going anywhere, and thus lose my ability to counter the attempted backstab.

I really don’t understand this whole complaint. I get that getting killed instantly by a D/D BV+CnD+Mug+BS combo back in the day was unfair (though I still die just as quickly to burst warriors and mesmers so…), but even if I’m fighting a boon heavy build and stealing from them, the fight lasts a long time. This means that the other player has myriad chances to come back. I’ve found a couple of things: 1) if the other player is better than me, I will lose, 2) if I make mistakes, even when fighting someone worse than me, I will lose. Boon stealing (FS/LS) is not ever a win button.

Zacchary.6183:

sorrow.2364:

Zacchary.6183:

How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.

If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?

For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.

Has anyone here complained about Thief mobility? I don’t think so.
People here are complaining about the fact that Thieves can just mash tkittenutton continuously and steal a whole profession mechaninc and putting it at his advantage.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thief-too-much-evade-cleanse-and-port/page/2#post2010741

Yeah I dont think so too.

EDIT: If you really wanted to complain about thieves you could have done it on other forums. Thief forums have enough QQ threads so do us a boon and go somewhere else.

This ^^

EvilSardine.9635:

Changes for the better:
-Higher initiative cost
-Steals only 1 boon
-Blockable

So, worse than it used to be. And it used to be worthless.

Xeph AND Lowell not happy = not good

Walorx.5129:

I wonder how it would even work considering stealth/stability. Seems like something that would require a whole new system and maps. Too much work IMO for it at this moment, although it would be a refreshing addition in the future once they get rankings, leader board, etc etc in place!

Drop the flag on stealth and make the maps long enough that stability won’t last the whole length.

Trigr.6481:

Well his damage wasn’t really a concern. So sure I’ll stand in it all day, he had me really worried……….lol. Thank you for your mindless troll comment friend

Seems like this problem solves itself. Thanks for the pointless post.

The phrase is “I couldn’t care less.” Also, using metaphors in an online argument about video games is a complete waste of time as no metaphor is 100% accurate and the person arguing on the other side will always pick apart the 1% inaccuracy.

Tips.

This thread should probably be locked now. Nothing but personal attacks.

Yesterday I won a 1v100 cause I’m so stealthy. All 80’s of course. I was utilizing the stealthing-confuses-people-and-causes-them-to-stop-pushing-buttons bug

Any kind of communication would be nice

Tulisin said absolutely everything required. I would only like to add my own personal emphasis: please make S/D viable again, it was the style that I really enjoyed.

Awesome stuff Eduardo. The only thing left to do is to test this on an actual player because it might be a test dummy bug.

If this holds true for actual human players, then we know 1) Daze lasts more than 1.5 seconds (if the autoattack chain is 2.5 seconds, then daze is between 2 and 2.4 seconds), 2) the mesmer runes are indeed bugged and 3) sigils don’t work (though we won’t know if this is a bug until Anet says something).

Thanks for the help!

Good stuff, I’ll try to put it in practice.

Switching to SB has definitely helped my survivability against these builds, but the fight takes a while. I should try switching from short to long range throughout the fight.

I posted this in the thief forums, but I want to get both perspectives.

I’m a Sword/Dagger thief (recently nerfed dazelock build), and I’ve been doing some practice in tPVP to adapt to the nerfs and now I’m doing pretty well with it. That is until I ran into 3 matches with D/D Elementalists in a row. I can’t seem to do anything against them. I jump in with my immobilize, then stealth and daze, but then I’m cc’d (they create distance and I can’t daze again) and AoE’d to death really quickly. The same tactics that work against other classes just don’t seem to work here. Any tips would be helpful.

My first thought was to add in a second immobilize from venoms.

This is not a whine thread, but an attempt to gain some understanding.

Thanks for the help.

I’m a Sword/Dagger thief, and I’ve been doing some practice in tPVP to adapt to the nerfs and now I’m doing pretty well with it. That is until I ran into 3 matches with D/D Elementalists in a row. I can’t seem to do anything against them. I jump in, immobilize, then stealth and daze, but then I’m cc’d (they create distance and I can’t daze again) and AoE’d to death really quickly. The same tactics that work against other classes just don’t seem to work here. Any ideas?

I’m also having similar problems against certain Necros, but I’m not sure what set ups they are (lots of AoE kills me).

This is not a whine thread, but an attempt to gain some understanding.

Dacromir.6207:

However, nerfing S/D damage confuses me, because I have literally never heard a single person complain about the damage, and it’s already our lowest-damage weapon set.

THE strangest part

Uhh. When you’re talking only about damage then, yes, you can compare them.

The +daze duration sigil and runes aren’t working on tac strike right now. I don’t know if this is intentional though.

I agree that this is still usable. It just feels severely limited especially without runes/sigils.

I really hope we get a response, at least in regards to the +daze duration runes.

Shouldn’t the fact that nobody uses it mean that it needs to be buffed?

Also, that’s probably one of the worst arguments ever.

Before, when I saw a guardian/other bunker on a point I ran right up, and started the long process of killing them. If they were good it would be a stalemate, and I’d just run if they got reinforcements. Now, having played some games after the patch, I see a bunker and move on to a different point. I feel completely helpless fighting them.

Something I didn’t realize at first would happen is that I also take way more damage now than before.

Maybe I should play WvW now

I would be fine with a 2.5 second cap. Right now with runes not working it’s just way to short.

I just don’t understand the S/D nerf. I was getting bored with D/D BS builds and S/D totally got me playing again.

Questions:

Why did this build need a damage nerf? It was in no way OP (DD did need a reduction). Now auto attack is the only real source of damage.

Why don’t runes of the Mesmer affect daze duration when it says they should (I understand sigil of paralyzation not working)? Is this intended?

Why did the daze duration need to be reduced so much (especially with runes/sigil not working)? It was already difficult to get a good daze lock going, but now it’s basically an interrupt.

I just want to know what the point of all of this is. Especially in light of the non nerf to spike damage (I switched a while ago to avoid complaints and to avoid nerfs).

BS builds were barely touched and condition builds were not touched at all.

I one hundred percent agree

Ichishi.9613:

New series of tests before sleep:
Tactical strike daze duration in pvp is not increased at all by anything.
CnD nerf in pvp really only prevents glass cannon from dieing before backstab.

And leeching venoms scaling is like… Not noticable between 2k and 3.8k power. If it works at all. Healing not affected for sure.

I do not understand why anet IGNORES issues. And comes up with most ridiculous things. Illusion of effort?

I guess I’m switching back to D/D? I thought they didn’t want so many D/D thieves.

Kaizer.7135:

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

But they didn’t fix the burst

Exactly

The burst is still going to be too high. The problem is the nerf to the non burst builds.

Dreleth.3647:

The Sigil of Paralyzation doesn’t effect the daze anymore. Rune of the Mesmer only increases Tactical Strike daze to 2s instead of being 1.5s.

Rune of the Mesmer isn’t worth running if it only increases the daze by .5s.

Awesome, so my S/D daze build was nerfed by 1.5 seconds

Cufflink.3985:

Update: Runes of Mesmer and Sigil of Paralyzation do not seem to have any effect on Tactical Strike daze. I hope this is unintended… can someone else verify?

Can’t test yet. If this is true…kitten

Kizee.2184:

I thought they were going to reduce burst damage of backstab builds not ruin everyone’s build that didn’t want to go glass cannon backstab build. /boggle

Exactly, BS is still going to be strong but now my precious non glass S/D sucks.

I really don’t understand the nerf to S/D. Way less damage and less daze, so what is the point of that build now?

I haven’t checked it in game yet, but if sigil of paralyzation /runes of the mesmer still add a significant amount to daze, then it should be ok still.

And of course, BS build is still superpowered. I was excited about this patch because I assumed as a Sword/Dagger thief, I would get a buff (maybe better flanking strike) instead I’ve gotten less viable. At least that’s what it seems like. Can’t wait to get home to see if I have to change builds again.