Guild Wars 2

I understand Virtue of Courage (VoC) can’t be as good as the warrior’s healing signet or the ranger’s spirit elite because it’s not a utility skill or an elite. Still, I feel like this virtue’s passive isn’t really worth having.

It ticks for about 100 per second with no healing power. Ticks for ~110 with ~300 healing power, ~130 with ~800 healing power and ~145 with 1k+ healing power.

1k+ healing power is a giant investment in healing power, and while it does scale nicely with guardian dodge rolls and regen abilities, the increase in health per second is only about 45. That isn’t much.

I’ve heard many people say that 140 healing per second is good, and that buffing VoC would be overpowered. But really, healing for 1400 health over 10 seconds, isn’t really much. That’s one solid crit from any other class.

In a big fight, or some duels, you’ll be receiving and dealing damage rapidly. Healing for 140 every second – and that’s if you invested in lots of healing power- doesn’t help you when you might get hit for 1-3K in a few seconds. And most builds only have it tick for a about 120. When you’re in need of a heal, VoC passive won’t scratch the itch, even if you have loads of healing power.

It’s far better to use the active for healing, regen and condi cleanse than to try and use the passive for battle presence or sustain.

TL;DR

I would like to see VoC scale better with healing power, because the current scaling doesn’t make the passive useful in any real way.

I’m not saying this because I die a lot, I’m not saying this because I feel guardian is bad, or other classes are better.
I love the balance this game has, no matter how much people QQ about it. I’d say try other MMO’s and feel the pain of what actual imbalance is. You’ll look at GW2 and realise Anet is doing a great job!

It would just be nice to have healing power reward you more by making Battle presence builds or passive regen builds a little more viable.

Virtue of Resolve (Courage is the Aegis grantig one) is perfectly fine IMHO.
It’s a class specific mechanic present on every possible guardian build. A better scaling with Healing Power (btw I don’t find the current scaling bad) would made naturally stronger those builds investing on it (as long as other Virtues remain unmodified by stats, which is fairly true since Condtion guardian isn’t viable at all).
The class offers many other CHOICES (through traits and weapon skills) for a Healing Power build to be viable.

Virtue of Resolve’s passive effect is really just extra cake. It’s not there to give you a passive regen, it’s there to give Your team an extra heal, source of Regen and Condi cleanse (If traited).
Buffing the passive effect would only encourage more selfish hogging of the passive ability, and we don’t want that. (And no, even with Battle Presence it’s still not made for Passive play because, as already stated, the passive effect is negligable and it’s the Activated effect that’s the real deal here. That goes for basically all Virtues, anyway.)

I believe the base is so high with a lower coefficient because Virtue of Resolve is to make up for guardian’s lower base HP compared to other professions. Also, the base is 84HP/sec with 0 healing power and 144HP/sec with 1000 healing power. Get your math right please.

its a free ranger signet of the wild :p

This trait is so bad i even don’t use it. The passive is a joke and the active is not really needed. Its the same with GS +5% + little heal. Boring traits.

If i trait for something i want an impact. Not enough like on so many. But this counts also for other skills and even professions.

I would disagree that the passive is not useful… on my bunker guard it is usually after cracking VoR for cleanse that my HP really starts to drop uncontrollably—guard has a lot of evasion with vigor and energy sigils so it adds up quite a bit.

I’m still secretly hoping that they find a way to make battle presence viable so I can see healing signet + regen + VoResolve + soothing mist in action

But if you play PVE with zerker why should you use it. Its not making a difference like HS. Its always like the warrior is having all the goodies. Im not saying guardian is not good but with traits that push your condi as a grandmaster and the lack of condition sources the guardian has…

I agree that VoR should have a better tie with healing power. Actually skills in this game do not scale with stats well. It’s why you can see bunkers who still do good damage or GC with decent defense.

I agree to most of the comments here, but if the passive on VoR is there just to offer something extra, then why does battle presence exist, and if you invest loads into healing power, why doesn’t it actually become a good heal that guardians can use or rely on?

Have you seen regen warriors? The healing power scales really well with HS to the point where breaking a regen warrior is not possible without either loads of conditions or multiple people.

Aedrion.6483:

I agree to most of the comments here, but if the passive on VoR is there just to offer something extra, then why does battle presence exist, and if you invest loads into healing power, why doesn’t it actually become a good heal that guardians can use or rely on?

Have you seen regen warriors? The healing power scales really well with HS to the point where breaking a regen warrior is not possible without either loads of conditions or multiple people.

Healing signet doesn’t scale well with healing power, its just that HS base healing is so high.

Aza.2105:

Healing signet doesn’t scale well with healing power, its just that HS base healing is so high.

Regen warriors still don’t die. Dunno what they do then but they just don’t die xD

From a sPvP-standpoint, it is fine and has been since beta. Guardians have many options to avoid damage (e.g. mace or focus) or heal some up (e.g. staff).

Aedrion.6483:

I agree to most of the comments here, but if the passive on VoR is there just to offer something extra, then why does battle presence exist, and if you invest loads into healing power, why doesn’t it actually become a good heal that guardians can use or rely on?

Have you seen regen warriors? The healing power scales really well with HS to the point where breaking a regen warrior is not possible without either loads of conditions or multiple people.

Healing Signet actually scales far worse tan Virtue of Resolve (HS is a 392 base regen with a 0.05 HP coefficient, while VoR is a 84 base regen with a 0.06 HP coefficient).
IMHO, it wouldn’t be a problem if HS would scale way better than it currently does (obviously decreasing the base regen numbers), since the whole class can only benefit from Healing Power through Adrenal Health (not amazing scaling either), Regeneration boon (either from Dogged March or Regen Banners) and Shoutheal (Regen Banners and Shoutheal being mutually exclusive).
Guardian, in the other hand, has a lot of different healing sources that may benefit from this stat, some of them specifically designed to fit into a Healing Power builds (Selfless Daring, for example, has a negligible base effect and a quite high scaling).

Unlike many of those healing sources (coming from trait, weapon and utility choices), VoR is a common feature to every guardian build. If we agree on Condition Guardian being fairly lackluster atm (so no effective scaling for VoJ), having VoR strongly scaling with Healing Power would achieve nothing but making healway builds the naturally stronegst option and pidgeonholing the class into that route..

If defensive/sustained specs were inferior to damage ones (or any other not investing in Healing Power at all), increasing VoR scaling could be a acceptable way of achieving an even balance (I still think that improving the optional parts of the specs would be much better). In the current state (where Bunker guardian, using Clerics amulet, is the prevalent spec for sPvP, and WvW meta is also about bunkerish/sustained builds), however, it doesn’t make any sense.

Those coefficients are great.

Dont forget the ticks its 1s vs 3s now whats better

A regen fits better to the guardian.

Aedrion.6483:

I agree to most of the comments here, but if the passive on VoR is there just to offer something extra, then why does battle presence exist, and if you invest loads into healing power, why doesn’t it actually become a good heal that guardians can use or rely on?

Have you seen regen warriors? The healing power scales really well with HS to the point where breaking a regen warrior is not possible without either loads of conditions or multiple people.

HS is an actual healing skill, whereas VoR is not. Warriors need to rely on that for the majority of their healing, whereas guardians still have a healing skill available in addition to having VoR. As such, it doesn’t make sense for VoR to be anywhere near comparable to the healing power of HS, unless the guardian healing skills were actually toned down in power as compensation.

As for battle presence, it’s very much a team-oriented trait. If you’re using it for solo bunkering a node, the value of that trait will be drastically reduced (by 80%, in fact).

Take build such as: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApdWlcg6CHGSPEm4ESmCRCBxewRW0GdpwheIA-j0BB4hERjUDQE1DZMLqIas1RFRjVNjIqWZDTKgvVGB-w

With weapon stacks, this build can attain 2400 healing power, which causes VoR to heal for 290 each second.. It’s essentially giving your whole party a mini healing signet, which amounts to a total of 1450 health per second spread across 5 people. Battle presence also has a characteristic whereby popping the virtue still allows the regen benefits to be applied to allies. It also stacks with any other sort of regeneration since it is a unique “boon”.

So in summary, it does not become as powerful as healing signet because it’s not a main heal skill, and battle presence only real has meaningful value if used alongside a party. Typical good uses of battle presence may be dungeon groups or WvW roaming groups/zergs. If VoR’s power became comparable to healing signet, a guardian would effectively be able to give everyone healing signet… in fact, this would mean warriors would effectively have two healing signets going at the same time, which would be insane.

Uh, you do realize that they also gain the benefit of Healing Power from their actual heal skill, as well as from many other sources (Regen, dodging, Staff, Mace…)?

It’s perfectly fine as it is.

Aza.2105:

Aedrion.6483:

I agree to most of the comments here, but if the passive on VoR is there just to offer something extra, then why does battle presence exist, and if you invest loads into healing power, why doesn’t it actually become a good heal that guardians can use or rely on?

Have you seen regen warriors? The healing power scales really well with HS to the point where breaking a regen warrior is not possible without either loads of conditions or multiple people.

Healing signet doesn’t scale well with healing power, its just that HS base healing is so high.

This is true

Neko.9021:

Uh, you do realize that they also gain the benefit of Healing Power from their actual heal skill, as well as from many other sources (Regen, dodging, Staff, Mace…)?

It’s perfectly fine as it is.

Yea I was going to write this as well. But its not the same as a passive regen that has no prerequisite. Healing signet for example doesn’t have any requirement other than to equip it.

Guardian does have a lot of sources of healing but mostly all of them are situation.