Guild Wars 2

Mightymealworm.8409:

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

So out of everything you said Warriors dont have, the actual only things listed the dont have is Teleport which why bother when you have GS? and Protection again why bother with so much base health, toughness along with damage immunities, condition immunities and insane passive healing…

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s not irrelevant though. A Warrior with 0 points in defense has only 2.2k armor. That is no where near a bunker. That’s only 150 more armor than a Ranger in the same gear.

How many points in defense do you feel a Warrior needs to invest before you’d consider them a ‘bunker’ spec? Would you consider another class that spec’d 20 points in their line that granted toughness a bunker spec? If so I have bad news for you… EVERY Warrior specs 20 in their toughness line at a minimum. The meta spec in sPvP and WvW both have 30 points in their toughness line.

Any other class that did that you’d call a bunker spec, why not a Warrior?

Refer to the above. Also thieves that run stealth builds almost always have 30 in their toughness trait, and many of them are glass cannons. Traits are meant to determine class abilities; in this game it’s the gear that determines how offensive or defensive you are, and no class that has full offensive gear should be able to passively fill a defensive role.

Then what about a Warrior in full berserker gear is making them defensive?

Is it because they have Healing Signet? Well we’ve already seen a Ranger has a nearly comparable heal.

Is it because they have Endure pain? Well the Ranger has the same skill but their’s lasts longer.

Is it because they have Balanced Stance? Well the Ranger has it with a 20 second duration.

Is it because they have high Toughness? A Ranger could have more in the same gear than a Warrior.

In your wildest dreams would you ever consider a power ranger a bunker? Because all the above certainly makes it appear they can out bunker the Warrior. I guess that 3.5k hp is making quite the difference? But of course I didn’t mention the Ranger had more evades, multiple sources of protection, etc.

And as I said before… the more we have this conversation the more we’re moving away from Healing Signet even being a problem to begin with, which is the point the Warrior community has been making for awhile now.

Atherakhia.4086:

Then what about a Warrior in full berserker gear is making them defensive?

Is it because they have Healing Signet? Well we’ve already seen a Ranger has a nearly comparable heal.
Troll unguent isn’t passive sustainability, and has 15 seconds of downtime. Healing signet requires no activation and is permanent. The HP/sec is far from the only factor in why many people believe that it is unbalanced.

Is it because they have Endure pain? Well the Ranger has the same skill but their’s lasts longer.
A ranger has to trait 30 points in order for that to work. A warrior can use endure pain and still have whatever traits he wants. Again, a poor comparison.

Is it because they have Balanced Stance? Well the Ranger has it with a 20 second duration.
That’s also an elite skill with a 180 second cooldown. That’s 160 seconds of downtime. Also not comparable.

Is it because they have high Toughness? A Ranger could have more in the same gear than a Warrior.
That’s completely false, because a ranger has medium armor and a medium base HP pool and a warrior has high base HP with heavy armor.

In your wildest dreams would you ever consider a power ranger a bunker? Because all the above certainly makes it appear they can out bunker the Warrior. I guess that 3.5k hp is making quite the difference? But of course I didn’t mention the Ranger had more evades, multiple sources of protection, etc.

And as I said before… the more we have this conversation the more we’re moving away from Healing Signet even being a problem to begin with, which is the point the Warrior community has been making for awhile now.

I put some bold text up there for you to read. Also let’s not go into discussions about ranger’s reliance on an AI pet for half of its damage, or their lack of easily accessible condition removal, or the fact that it doesn’t have as much mobility even with sword and greatsword equipped, which would require them to sacrifice the option to have a ranged weapon. Because that would make your argument look a little silly, don’t ya think?

Lol I have just played in spvp against a tanky healing signet warrior. Oh My God. Arenanet honestly you are proposing the top of braindead gameplay now. But yes take really care on next changes (hope 1 year will be sufficient). One could have to click on something to be more efficient….which would be bad design for sure.

Atherakhia.4086:

Is it because they have Healing Signet? Well we’ve already seen a Ranger has a nearly comparable heal.

Except Troll Ungent isn’t on 24/7/365. It’s on for EXACTLY 10 seconds, and then has a 15 second downtime before it can be used again, giving enough time for the Ranger to get killed. Healing Signet is always on unless you use the active (which is worthless), so there’s no downtime whatsoever, making it more powerful than Troll Ungent.

Atherakhia.4086:

Is it because they have Endure pain? Well the Ranger has the same skill but their’s lasts longer.

Endure Pain’s only downside is conditions, which is easily remedied. Protect Me’s downside is that it can kill off your pet, and the second your pet goes the invulnerability goes. It’s possible to only be invulnerable for a single second before losing all of it. Signet of Stone, that one I admit cannot be stopped, but it’s on an 80 second cooldown (70 more than you need to get killed if you’re running full zerker on a Ranger).

Atherakhia.4086:

Is it because they have Balanced Stance? Well the Ranger has it with a 20 second duration.

Warrior’s is on a 40 second cooldown (lower with traits), while Rampage as One has a 2 minute cooldown. That’s 3 Balanced Stances you can get through in the time it takes for RaO to recharge.

Atherakhia.4086:

Is it because they have high Toughness? A Ranger could have more in the same gear than a Warrior.

I laughed. Ranger cannot get higher toughness than a Warrior, Warriors wear heavy armor, meaning their base toughness (and their max toughness amount) will be higher than a Ranger. Are you smoking something sir?

Atherakhia.4086:

In your wildest dreams would you ever consider a power ranger a bunker? Because all the above certainly makes it appear they can out bunker the Warrior. I guess that 3.5k hp is making quite the difference? But of course I didn’t mention the Ranger had more evades, multiple sources of protection, etc.

And as I said before… the more we have this conversation the more we’re moving away from Healing Signet even being a problem to begin with, which is the point the Warrior community has been making for awhile now.

I pointed out the errors in your logic. The biggest one being that Rangers will never have the damage output of Warriors due to a crappy faulty AI that Anet refuses to fix having 30% of a Ranger’s damage output. A zerker ranger cannot kill as fast as a zerker warrior, and as I pointed out, cannot have the sustain available as readily as a Warrior can at any time.

Hell, we have nowhere near the health pool, and we don’t have ANY real condition cleanse, compared to a Warrior who can easily get ahold of an active cleanse that works just from using burst skills, which is part of what zerker warrior does. The majority of your argument does not hold water sir.

JETWING.2759:

I think that all here already knows that Healing Signet is
“few” strong.
As Jon said, we need ideas, ideas, give suggestions about passive and active.

Where did Jon say he needed ideas?

So now traits aren’t irrelevent? Wish you’d make up your mind.

Swoop and Whirlwind+Rush have about the same distance coverage per second. Sword+Greatsword for Warrior loses TONS of utility.

Pets don’t scale with gear so they always deal high damage even though a Ranger may use apothecary gear.

Empathic Bond is probably the best condition cleanse in the game.

What’s bad is I don’t even play Warrior (I do have one) but rather a Ranger. The point I’m trying to make is there isn’t any one thing wrong with the Warrior class and nerfing any one thing will need to be offset with substantial improvements elsewhere.

If you need proof, actually play a Warrior. Limit yourself to one stance, one signet, and anything else you want with 0 points in defense and see how long you last.

Like I said back on page one or two… the problem with the Warrior is if they spec for defense/bunker, they don’t lose much damage. If they spec for offense, they don’t gain much damage but lose a ton of defense. Traitlines aren’t irrelevent and the issue isn’t healing signet.

It’s healing signet + defy pain + endure pain + berserker stance + balanced stance + adrenal health + cleansing ire + second highest mobility in the game.

To even function a Warrior needs the vast majority of these things. Nerfing one will need substantial improvements in the others and healing signet is the least of the problems.

Atherakhia.4086:

So now traits aren’t irrelevent? Wish you’d make up your mind.

Swoop and Whirlwind+Rush have about the same distance coverage per second. Sword+Greatsword for Warrior loses TONS of utility.

Pets don’t scale with gear so they always deal high damage even though a Ranger may use apothecary gear.

Empathic Bond is probably the best condition cleanse in the game.

What’s bad is I don’t even play Warrior (I do have one) but rather a Ranger. The point I’m trying to make is there isn’t any one thing wrong with the Warrior class and nerfing any one thing will need to be offset with substantial improvements elsewhere.

If you need proof, actually play a Warrior. Limit yourself to one stance, one signet, and anything else you want with 0 points in defense and see how long you last.

Like I said back on page one or two… the problem with the Warrior is if they spec for defense/bunker, they don’t lose much damage. If they spec for offense, they don’t gain much damage but lose a ton of defense. Traitlines aren’t irrelevent and the issue isn’t healing signet.

It’s healing signet + defy pain + endure pain + berserker stance + balanced stance + adrenal health + cleansing ire + second highest mobility in the game.

To even function a Warrior needs the vast majority of these things. Nerfing one will need substantial improvements in the others and healing signet is the least of the problems.

I really don’t like dealing with strawman arguments, so I’ll just go ahead and stop bothering.

Atherakhia.4086:

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s not irrelevant though. A Warrior with 0 points in defense has only 2.2k armor. That is no where near a bunker. That’s only 150 more armor than a Ranger in the same gear.

How many points in defense do you feel a Warrior needs to invest before you’d consider them a ‘bunker’ spec? Would you consider another class that spec’d 20 points in their line that granted toughness a bunker spec? If so I have bad news for you… EVERY Warrior specs 20 in their toughness line at a minimum. The meta spec in sPvP and WvW both have 30 points in their toughness line.

Any other class that did that you’d call a bunker spec, why not a Warrior?

Refer to the above. Also thieves that run stealth builds almost always have 30 in their toughness trait, and many of them are glass cannons. Traits are meant to determine class abilities; in this game it’s the gear that determines how offensive or defensive you are, and no class that has full offensive gear should be able to passively fill a defensive role.

Then what about a Warrior in full berserker gear is making them defensive?

Is it because they have Healing Signet? Well we’ve already seen a Ranger has a nearly comparable heal.

Is it because they have Endure pain? Well the Ranger has the same skill but their’s lasts longer.

Is it because they have Balanced Stance? Well the Ranger has it with a 20 second duration.

Is it because they have high Toughness? A Ranger could have more in the same gear than a Warrior.

In your wildest dreams would you ever consider a power ranger a bunker? Because all the above certainly makes it appear they can out bunker the Warrior. I guess that 3.5k hp is making quite the difference? But of course I didn’t mention the Ranger had more evades, multiple sources of protection, etc.

And as I said before… the more we have this conversation the more we’re moving away from Healing Signet even being a problem to begin with, which is the point the Warrior community has been making for awhile now.

I like the way you make weird comparisons to the ranger whilst leaving out all the small print details about why rangers cannot play a power bunker anywhere near like what a warrior can.

Whats sad though is I dont even wholely disagree with your overall assesment of HS and the problems with the warrior.. just the way you go about arguing your point is well.. bad.. said simply and politely.

Atherakhia.4086:

So now traits aren’t irrelevent? Wish you’d make up your mind.

Swoop and Whirlwind+Rush have about the same distance coverage per second. Sword+Greatsword for Warrior loses TONS of utility.

Pets don’t scale with gear so they always deal high damage even though a Ranger may use apothecary gear.

Empathic Bond is probably the best condition cleanse in the game.

What’s bad is I don’t even play Warrior (I do have one) but rather a Ranger. The point I’m trying to make is there isn’t any one thing wrong with the Warrior class and nerfing any one thing will need to be offset with substantial improvements elsewhere.

If you need proof, actually play a Warrior. Limit yourself to one stance, one signet, and anything else you want with 0 points in defense and see how long you last.

Like I said back on page one or two… the problem with the Warrior is if they spec for defense/bunker, they don’t lose much damage. If they spec for offense, they don’t gain much damage but lose a ton of defense. Traitlines aren’t irrelevent and the issue isn’t healing signet.

It’s healing signet + defy pain + endure pain + berserker stance + balanced stance + adrenal health + cleansing ire + second highest mobility in the game.

To even function a Warrior needs the vast majority of these things. Nerfing one will need substantial improvements in the others and healing signet is the least of the problems.

actual thats not really true.. what brings warrior over the top:
dogged march: no cooldown, so nearly always regen and good counter against soft cc
berzerker stance: adrenalin management is a joke with this skill
cleansing ire: adrenalin management and the need to “succesfull” hit targets is a joke

that leads to spam of the burst skills and clearing condis with bow. a cleansing ire+dogged march+zerker stance+endure pain + bow warrior is resilent against hard and soft cc cause high stability uptime and the fast clearing of soft cc. so the only real counter is to burst them faster they can kill u. thats where endure pain comes into play.

my suggestion would fix this without breaking it
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Warrior-Healing-Signet-is-Too-Powerful/page/6#post3500235

I would change it so, the the heal /s is depending on your life.
E.g:
Active:

• Heals 4000 Points [CD 30secs]

Passive:

• 100-66% : 180 HP/s
• 66-33% : 315 HP/s
• 33- 0% : 425 HP/s

Flumek.9043:

Warior and Necro – highest hp pool
400+ hps – 300 hps minion

Lets put aside:
-more armor
-minion has counter (kill , random dodge)
-DS – doesnt heal so doesnt matter here

READ HERE
The 300hps feels balanced on necro. Its strong 1v1, even on zerker MM, but it gets bursted in teamfights. How the heck is the heal signet still running wild?

Is it sooo hard to admit a mistake? Or better powercreep 7 clases ?
Is it too hard to go a “steady and slow” aprooach ?
Like from 200 to 400 – 300 – 350 – okay 325 is sweet balanced spot ???

You have not considered that the difference between heavy and light armor is 40 toughness. A laughable difference at best. You have also not considered the 10K buffer of life force in death shroud. That is why 300hps on necro feels right, and 390 on warrior feels right. I am glad we have had this difference pointed out and not swept under the rug.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

I couldn’t agree more with this. There is plenty of sturdy builds that stand toe with warrior healing signet and with good use of skill and not spamming have effective means of countering and whittling it away at a pace that is not lethargic. It requires them to engage and think, but also doesn’t leave the warrior in a place that it is powerless to avoid a heavy spike in dmg and be left with little they can do about it.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

You have not considered that the difference between heavy and light armor is 40 toughness. A laughable difference at best. You have also not considered the 10K buffer of life force in death shroud. That is why 300hps on necro feels right, and 390 on warrior feels right. I am glad we have had this difference pointed out and not swept under the rug.

How much damage does endure pain and berserker stance block?
While the Warrior is STILL being healed, something that DeathShroud doesn’t allow.

If you had the mobility of a Necro it could easily be much more than 10k, especially if you are outnumbered.

Healing signet does NOT feel right, that’s the whole point of the thread, it has no counters and works without ANY regard to environment ( enemies, combat, cooldowns, etc…).

Since the problem is the active effect I have to propose this change:

Buff the active heal (50% or something) and leave passive as it is.

Add this mechanism: While the passive heal is actively healing and the warrior is not above 80% health, make adrenaline regeneration zero (or -50%, or something).

This way if the warrior wants to heal passively, he will have to give up his adrenal skills.
He will HAVE TO activate the sigil, for a massive heal above the threshold, so the passive is not actively healing, to be able to regenerate adrenaline normally again.

JonPeters.5630:

Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have.

Jon

Jon, why have you balanced the entire warrior profession around a single heal?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Jon, why have you balanced the entire warrior profession around a single heal?

Because this is Anet…
As if all the mobility, toughness, armor and defensive skills they have are not enough…

First time here on this forum and knew this thread would exist lol. Jon gave his response and a lot don’t want to accept it. Now that’s funny nevertheless I agree with what Jon says. Healing Signet is a situational heal regardless of the warrior player skills. Once it’s used that’s it the warrior is vulnerable and that’s your chance to take the player out until healing signet affects recurs.

Brutalistik.6473:

First time here on this forum and knew this thread would exist lol. Jon gave his response and a lot don’t want to accept it. Now that’s funny nevertheless I agree with what Jon says. Healing Signet is a situational heal regardless of the warrior player skills. Once it’s used that’s it the warrior is vulnerable and that’s your chance to take the player out until healing signet affects recurs.

thats precisely the problem warriors never use it because they usually run shout heals wich give boons clear conditions and also heal about 2-3k hp per shout

so thats up to 4k-8k healing with 3 might and fury and 10 vuln stacking on target from shouts +800 hp per second from heal signet and adrenal regen

oh right here we go with the godly 30/30/30/30/30 warrior build.

Have you seem what the tree that give you 2k shout heal for warrior looks like?

bigmonto.4215:

oh right here we go with the godly 30/30/30/30/30 warrior build.

Have you seem what the tree that give you 2k shout heal for warrior looks like?

What about it?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Jon, why have you balanced the entire warrior profession around a single heal?

Because this is Anet…
As if all the mobility, toughness, armor and defensive skills they have are not enough…

We had all that before HS was buffed and we were regarded as absolute trash in all forms of PVP.

Harper.4173:

We had all that before HS was buffed and we were regarded as absolute trash in all forms of PVP.

Some people did amazing stuff with the warrior in WvWvW before all the overbuffing and the class has always had superb mobility. The issue now is that it has superb mobility and superb sustain. Something has got to give because as it stands the class is rightly viewed as the official easy mode. Either nerf the sustain or the mobility. If warriors were sluggish juggernauts easily kited I’m sure the playerbase would be more inclined to tolerate this.

Harper.4173:

We had all that before HS was buffed and we were regarded as absolute trash in all forms of PVP.

The problem being all the buffs and nerfs to everyone in between everything else

Fungalfoot.7213:

Harper.4173:

We had all that before HS was buffed and we were regarded as absolute trash in all forms of PVP.

Some people did amazing stuff with the warrior in WvWvW before all the overbuffing and the class has always had superb mobility. The issue now is that it has superb mobility and superb sustain. Something has got to give because as it stands the class is rightly viewed as the official easy mode. Either nerf the sustain or the mobility. If warriors were sluggish juggernauts easily kited I’m sure the playerbase would be more inclined to tolerate this.

This. People said for the longest time that warriors were trash in PvP before the overbuff to Healing Signet, but dear god did I encounter warriors who completely wrecked me despite that. Warrior before along with the thief were the official hardmode PvP classes. If you could do well with them, you were declared an amazing player. Now Warrior doing well means jack kitten, it means you’re just coasting on an overpowered healing skill.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Harper.4173:

We had all that before HS was buffed and we were regarded as absolute trash in all forms of PVP.

Some people did amazing stuff with the warrior in WvWvW before all the overbuffing and the class has always had superb mobility. The issue now is that it has superb mobility and superb sustain. Something has got to give because as it stands the class is rightly viewed as the official easy mode. Either nerf the sustain or the mobility. If warriors were sluggish juggernauts easily kited I’m sure the playerbase would be more inclined to tolerate this.

The sustain will not be nerfed – maybe just toned down – but warriors were always designed to have high sustain.
The mobility is not an issue – a highly mobile warrior lacks CC – and thus has no real means of delivering his damage.
The class is wrongly viewed as EZ mode because it isn’t. It takes skill to play a warrior properly – and i didn’t even realize how much.

I tried sPVP today with a level 8 mesmer – first time i played the class. I just mashed buttons – clones started popping and people started dying. I had no idea what i was doing yet i was doing well.

Pre-HS buff very good players were doing decent with warrior in WVW. However both there and in sPVP the class was regarded as a liability and no serious team would take you.

I’m sure that you and the playerbase would like to see the warrior become a sluggish juggernaut that could be easily kited( and made into an easy free kill) but sadly ( for you) that is not going to happen.
The class is very well where it is – the high mobility and good sustain giving it a good reach in order to close gaps and stay on a target that has multiple evade mechanisms.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Harper.4173:

We had all that before HS was buffed and we were regarded as absolute trash in all forms of PVP.

Some people did amazing stuff with the warrior in WvWvW before all the overbuffing and the class has always had superb mobility. The issue now is that it has superb mobility and superb sustain. Something has got to give because as it stands the class is rightly viewed as the official easy mode. Either nerf the sustain or the mobility. If warriors were sluggish juggernauts easily kited I’m sure the playerbase would be more inclined to tolerate this.

This. People said for the longest time that warriors were trash in PvP before the overbuff to Healing Signet, but dear god did I encounter warriors who completely wrecked me despite that. Warrior before along with the thief were the official hardmode PvP classes. If you could do well with them, you were declared an amazing player. Now Warrior doing well means jack kitten, it means you’re just coasting on an overpowered healing skill.

Amazing players will always do good – even if they’re given a broken class – because the player himself can compensate with knowledge, experience and lightning quick reflexes.
That doesn’t mean the class was not broken.

Without healing signet they are nothing!. If you cant out damage 400 hp/s then you should reconsider you’re build. They have no protection, no stealth,no pets etc.
It take skill to play warrior. At least in wvw, Its do or die. They have little room for error.

And countless of players have tried the warrior out in SPvP only to find out that they’re suddenly topping the charts without putting in any effort. This isn’t an argument about whether the warrior is overpowered or not because it is. This is an argument about how to address that issue and right now healing signet makes for the easiest target but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the only target. It all depends on what role the warrior is meant to fill.

ANet has to become a lot clearer on that point.

Since I couldn’t be bothered reading the whole thread, I’m not sure if this has been suggested already.

I think the culprit here is adrenal health. Healing signet alone doesn’t make a warrior too strong, but when you add defensive stats and adrenal health, it becomes ridiculous. As of right now the defensive trait lines are a little bit too strong for warriors.

I main a warrior.

Fungalfoot.7213:

And countless of players have tried the warrior out in SPvP only to find out that they’re suddenly topping the charts without putting in any effort. This isn’t an argument about whether the warrior is overpowered or not because it is. This is an argument about how to address that issue and right now healing signet makes for the easiest target but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the only target. It all depends on what role the warrior is meant to fill.

ANet has to become a lot clearer on that point.

It’s not as cut and dry as you make it. They’re dominating as condi in a meta where condis have been overpowered for 8 months or more. If you wanted to use sPvP performance as a baseline, wouldn’t it make more sense to get a handle on conditions before adjusting classes?

tom.7468:

Without healing signet they are nothing!. If you cant out damage 400 hp/s then you should reconsider you’re build. They have no protection, no stealth,no pets etc.
It take skill to play warrior. At least in wvw, Its do or die. They have little room for error.

Yeah just ignore the mobility, the CC, the Condition and Damage immunities, the high health, the high toughness and everything else they have…

Fungalfoot.7213:

And countless of players have tried the warrior out in SPvP only to find out that they’re suddenly topping the charts without putting in any effort. This isn’t an argument about whether the warrior is overpowered or not because it is. This is an argument about how to address that issue and right now healing signet makes for the easiest target but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the only target. It all depends on what role the warrior is meant to fill.

ANet has to become a lot clearer on that point.

The way I feel and the way I think they intended the class to be is a good-at everything but without the other classes’ ability to specialize.
And think about it – that’s pretty much what it is today.

Can it spike damage? Yes. Can it spike as well as a thief? No.
Can it bunker? Yes. Can it bunker as well as a guardian? No.
Can it do condi damage pressure?Yes. Can it outperform a engineer/necro in this regard? No.
Can it solo roam in WvW?Yes – can it outperform a mesmer? No.
Can it buff allies? Yes -but not as well as an ele( for offensive) or guardian ( For defensive).
Can it deal high damage( In PVE)- yes – but can’t out damage an ele/thief/guard.
Can it heal with shouts and banners? Yes – can it outheal an ele/guard?No.

So – you’ve got a class with a lot of potential in all areas BUT a class that can’t really excel at anything since other classes can better specialize to fill that role.
No matter how much specialization goes into a warrior build another class will ALWAYS do it better.
On top of that there are some very useful game mechanics and buffs ( stealth/blinks/protection/reflects/illusions/elemental weapons/kits) that warriors do not have access to – they’ve got to make up for it in some way.

There’s this unwritten truth about MMOs and balance patches that goes:

“If the population of X class doubles after a patch, then something is wrong with X”

Think of it this way, before the stealth nerf/warrior buff… all you get to fight was thieves, now their population seems to be toned down greatly.

Cheese lovers will always play the fotm and when the fotm switches, the cheese lovers switch.

The thing that makes Healing Signet so much more broken in WvW atleast is the lemongrass + melandru combo. Not only does it make every warrior impossible to kill because they can’t be slowed with immobilize/cripple/chill but they can’t be poisoned.

Arlette.9684:

There’s this unwritten truth about MMOs and balance patches that goes:

“If the population of X class doubles after a patch, then something is wrong with X”

Think of it this way, before the stealth nerf/warrior buff… all you get to fight was thieves, now their population seems to be toned down greatly.

Cheese lovers will always play the fotm and when the fotm switches, the cheese lovers switch.

Warriors didn’t double after the patch. Warriors were always prevalent – from day 1 they were a favorite because of many factors.

-A good looking class with good armor options and great visuals the class was always a favorite – both in GW2 and GW1.
The main factor however is that it is a less complicated class than say engi or ele. It’s a very straigt forward class without too many gimmicks or complicated class mechanics.
That’s why it can’t really specialize as well as other classes can. That’s why it can’t excel in the roles i previously mentioned in my post above.

By its design from a gameplay point of view and also by its design visually and aesthetically – the warrior will always be popular.

Warrior become very strong after buff in Dodged March, Adrenal Health, Cleansing Ire, Healing Signet and Berserk Stance.

- May be that HS need become interruptible, but scale with adrenaline lv and heal power.
- Berserker Stance must break stun and have removed your adrenaline gain.

Hammerguard.9834:

The thing that makes Healing Signet so much more broken in WvW atleast is the lemongrass + melandru combo. Not only does it make every warrior impossible to kill because they can’t be slowed with immobilize/cripple/chill but they can’t be poisoned.

Then that’s not a Healing Signet issue. That’s a trait problem which makes them challenging.

Thread summery:

OP: healing signet too strong.
Dev: we need to make the active used more.
Wars: passive to remain about the same, but have the active massively buffed so that it gets used more.

Yup, this seems about right for a warrior thread.

- . -

Aberrant.6749:

Thread summery:

OP: healing signet too strong.
Dev: we need to make the active used more.
Wars: passive to remain about the same, but have the active massively buffed so that it gets used more.

Yup, this seems about right for a warrior thread.

- . -

You mean the status quo where the devs don’t ENTIRELY know what they’re talking about too much, at least when it comes to balancing?

80 Warrior here. Healing Signet is bananas; it’s a crutch and it leads me to play counterintuitively. When things are going poorly, I just switch my focus to survival/being a kitey-girly-man for a bit and I’m right back in it. Notwithstanding in many of the cases where I’m reducing your DPS, I’m dealing damage. With Healing Signet my active heal is essentially turtling. Not exactly warrior-like behavior if you’re going for more of a bloodthirsty marauder kinda thing.

Instead, howzabout something like Vengeance where my continued survival depends on my ability to murder things? Here (wear a ring and gain hitpoints) are (use when you negate it’s secondary effect to gain lots of hitpoints) our (get glowy eyes, drop some conditions and gain hitpoints) heals (bend over and take it to gain hitpoints IFF your opponents are dumb). Where’s the “channel Patrick Bateman a la a berseker to gain hitpoints” option?

Just do an offensive version of Defiant Stance as the active. Some sort of flat mitigation for 3-5 seconds at the end of which the warrior is healed for some proportion of the damage dealt by the warrior during that time. This solution gives warriors the option of being a wussy nerd and hiding behind their shields while their magic ring does all the work or it lets them draw strength from the sight of one of their opponent’s viscera adorning his newly armless compatriot and the anticipation of the gurgling ragged screams soon to follow.

I think the choice is clear.

WorthlessProtoplasm.5609:

80 Warrior here. Healing Signet is bananas; it’s a crutch and it leads me to play counterintuitively.

Sadly your compadres and Jon Peters (the Chuck Norris of all Warriors) disagrees with you. If anything Healing Signet needs to be buffed if you ask them.

For some reason that just popped in my head and felt like sharing it.

Obviously the guy on the receiving end is the non warrior community

Arlette.9684:

WorthlessProtoplasm.5609:

80 Warrior here. Healing Signet is bananas; it’s a crutch and it leads me to play counterintuitively.

Sadly your compadres and Jon Peters (the Chuck Norris of all Warriors) disagrees with you. If anything Healing Signet needs to be buffed if you ask them.

Actually he said that the passive needs to be nerfed but the active should be buffed. Fair enough for me.

tom.7468:

Without healing signet they are nothing!. If you cant out damage 400 hp/s then you should reconsider you’re build. They have no protection, no stealth,no pets etc.
It take skill to play warrior. At least in wvw, Its do or die. They have little room for error.

thats precisely the problem how do you deal 800 damage per second on a warrior with 3500-4000 armor /try mixin zerker gear with cavalier you ll lose crit but you ll have as much power and crit damage as berserker

and yeah its not 400hp per second people have to deal with when 15 points in defense nets you Adrenal health an additional 300+ healing per second and if you want to have overkill tankyness 30 points in tactics for healing shouts for an additional 2-3k heals you can use without sacrificing your regen’s passive

Rezzet.3614:

tom.7468:

Without healing signet they are nothing!. If you cant out damage 400 hp/s then you should reconsider you’re build. They have no protection, no stealth,no pets etc.
It take skill to play warrior. At least in wvw, Its do or die. They have little room for error.

thats precisely the problem how do you deal 800 damage per second on a warrior with 3500-4000 armor /try mixin zerker gear with cavalier you ll lose crit but you ll have as much power and crit damage as berserker

and yeah its not 400hp per second people have to deal with when 15 points in defense nets you Adrenal health an additional 300+ healing per second and if you want to have overkill tankyness 30 points in tactics for healing shouts for an additional 2-3k heals you can use without sacrificing your regen’s passive

Just to say that Adrenal health trigers once every 3 seconds, not every second.

I suggest a rework: Remove the passive part, increase the active heal slightly, if the active is triggered it increases all incoming healing for x% for half of the recharge and grants regeneration for half of the recharge time, the incomming healing increase should boost the regeneration ticks to about 75% of the current passive on a build without healing power.
The regeneration effect should not be the boon but an effect like on the thief skill hide in the shadows.
This will still offer very good sustained healing and also make cross class healing that the warrior receives more efficient at critical points.

I believe the consensus among top player is that nerfing HS substantially would shut warriors out of the meta at higher tiers.

Whether or not warriors should be in the top tier is a different discussion, but raising various skill thresholds by making the active see more play is certainly a way to justify it better.

As usual the devs are being torn apart here for writing the right thing. I would agree that warriors are too easy right now, and the builds hold up perfectly in this meta, but ppl suggesting to flat out nerf HS simply don’t understand balance.

Yes if we are looking at a glass condi meta for eternity, warriors will need to be flat out nerfed. But if we ever saw, heaven forbid, a power meta, they would be better off with a more considered approach. Raise the skill cap.

And there it is. Come at me forums.

General consensus of the smart players:

Lower the base healing of Healing Signet’s passive, let it scale more with healing power, and raise the base heal of Healing Signet’s active.

nerfed by 8% .. what a nerf

Link to that info, Ark?