Guild Wars 2

dancingmonkey.4902:

So with the great removal and ability to transfer the soft CC on to your foe, why are you incapable of handling the limited hard CC with blinds or dodges?

Popular necro builds don’t really have all that much blind. As far as I know, the standard condi necro build only has Throw Bugs and Signet of Spite; Throw Bugs is more often used to flip conditions back, and Signet of Spite is used for aggressive pressure. The two other skills which apply decent Blind are Well of Darkness and Plague Form; I don’t think Well of Darkness is that popular, and Plague of Darkness pretty much tosses out your offensive capabilities. Haunt is right out.

That leaves 2 dodges every 20 seconds. Necromancers have no access to evade frames and no access to vigor. Popular CC centric builds have more control skills than that available to them in that time; most notably, Hambow can put out 4 in that time, with 2-3 Earthshakers, Staggering Blow and Backbreaker. This gets even worse in a group fight where there could be multiple sources of CC bouncing around, let alone coordinated CC.

The issue with Necro blinds is that none of them can be used tactically.

Deathly Swarm, the most frequently used one, has a slow projectile speed. You can’t use it to stop a specific attack, instead, you use it to transfer conditions and make the target waste one attack of their choice.

Plague Signet has a 3/4 second cast time. Again, this means that it can’t be used to stop a specific skill (outside of Spinal Shivers or Kill Shot).

Well of Darkness, due to its long cooldown and delay on the pulse, is a strategic move. Powerful, but not useful for specific negation. It’s also worthless against ranged attacks.

The same is true of Plague, our third most-used blind. Take what I said about Well of Darkness and multiply it by 3. Only real difference is that Plague isn’t a set location once cast.

Haunt, our final blind, is just laughable. While instant cast, the delay on the minion’s part is so long, you can’t even blind a Kill Shot. This blind is completely worthless for stopping a specific attack.

Bhawb.7408:

They all have very easy access to ways to get out of CC though, which is the entire point. What happens if a thief gets CCed? They use one of 8 different ways they have to either fully break it or at least create huge distance. They can also go into stealth if creating distance isn’t enough, or spam evade frames/dodges (this defined the pre-nerf S/D thief).

Mesmers also have stealth, ways to create large distances between them and enemies, access to invuln, and vigor.

Engineers are literally what a team takes if babysitting a Necro is too much work. They are the weaker DPS but un-focusable version of Necro. They get blocks, stunbreaks, ways to pick themselves off the ground, etc.

So no, you didn’t list anything special. You listed three classes all of whom have vastly better options to get out of and avoid subsequent CC than us.

Don’t forget to mention people, when a necro starts to get condi trained while in DS. They are left vulnerable in the end if say they are low on hp or the enemy team is literally waiting for the necro to get out of DS to heal. So necro do need direct access to stability and also some form of condition removal while in death shroud.

Well of Darkness is a bad utility. The cooldown is way too long and even traited so that blindness also inflict chill, I chose Well of Corruption over Well of Darkness. Anyway, Necro’s have a too low amount of stunbreakers. Against a hambow warrior, a necro is very vulnerable, beïng pingponged all over the map.
Again I see here people complaining about the conditions a necro can cast. The most conditions can be spread by the scepter/focus combination, but you tried to capture a capturepoint with that?

Well of Darkness is actually really strong in a tanky build. 6 second shutdown of any melee build is pretty strong, especially since you can drop it on point and if the other person doesn’t want to lose all point pressure they need to stand on point for that long without really doing anything.

Talking about all the zerker Necros, have you ever tried to use Lich form without stability, and with constant blinding and weakness? Ya good luck. I was against a Necro who at least was in the guild Good Fights (dunno if he’s actually on their team), and despite him being a way better player than me, I could shut down his burst literally every single time because of how easy it is to counter power Necro. Thankfully for him I was on a new weird bunker spec, and not my MM, because if I was he would have been impersonating a beach ball at a concert, getting bounced all over the place with no way to stop it.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

this is about team play not 1v1. in a 1v1 situation necro can beat other classes like warrior with a lot of effort and experience with our skills

Exactly. Which is why you get your stability from warriors, guardians, engineers, your team mates.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

as soon as you put necro in a team situation we become useless little more then a ping pong ball but when you put engineer in a team situation they are far from useless, sometimes being the only reason a point was kept during that fight

How so? When your team cast stability, it is AoE. You literally have no more or less resistance to this as anyone else.

Sarrs.4831:

Popular necro builds don’t really have all that much blind. As far as I know, the standard condi necro build only has Throw Bugs and Signet of Spite; Throw Bugs is more often used to flip conditions back, and Signet of Spite is used for aggressive pressure. The two other skills which apply decent Blind are Well of Darkness and Plague Form; I don’t think Well of Darkness is that popular, and Plague of Darkness pretty much tosses out your offensive capabilities. Haunt is right out.

So the “popular” build do not have blind, how does this justify changing a skill entirely? Personally, I find it extremely unreasonable to claim that necros need warrior/guardian level stability because players lack originality and use only popular builds.

Sarrs.4831:

That leaves 2 dodges every 20 seconds. Necromancers have no access to evade frames and no access to vigor. Popular CC centric builds have more control skills than that available to them in that time; most notably, Hambow can put out 4 in that time, with 2-3 Earthshakers, Staggering Blow and Backbreaker. This gets even worse in a group fight where there could be multiple sources of CC bouncing around, let alone coordinated CC.

So if you feel you need more dodges, run a sigil or run that increases endurance. Change you build to add blinds. Personally I have no problems with hambow warriors. So you get no sympathy from me there. If you are not willing to stray away from “the popular” builds and build for what you need, then you deserve what you get. Asking Anet to redesign skills based on your reluctance to step away from the meta, is not the solution.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Well of Darkness, due to its long cooldown and delay on the pulse, is a strategic move. Powerful, but not useful for specific negation. It’s also worthless against ranged attacks.

Although it is on a bit of a long cool down, this is what I use. Reguardless of what your suggesting, it is quit usefull for negation, specifically in a D/D, in your face build. Which is what i, personally run.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Well of Darkness is a bad utility. The cooldown is way too long and even traited so that blindness also inflict chill, I chose Well of Corruption over Well of Darkness. Anyway, Necro’s have a too low amount of stunbreakers. Against a hambow warrior, a necro is very vulnerable, beïng pingponged all over the map.

So what? You guys are pounfing on other points that this should not be balanced around 1v1, then everyone starts mention hambow only. No one cares about hambows, get help from your team. If your team Is leaving the necro to take on the hambow, then the problem is that you need a better team, not that Anet needs to redesigns skills because your incapable of dealing with one build on one profession.

Yeah, for as much as you guys have started stressing that this issue needs to be balanced based on group dynamics, why does the Hambow trumps me become relevant at all?

As I have seen in 7 different post, players suggesting they get bounced around like a ping pong ball, then why is their group guardians/warriors not helping you with that? Why do we need to redesign caster skills because your heavies are playing poorly?

coglin.1867:

Sarrs.4831:

Popular necro builds don’t really have all that much blind. As far as I know, the standard condi necro build only has Throw Bugs and Signet of Spite; Throw Bugs is more often used to flip conditions back, and Signet of Spite is used for aggressive pressure. The two other skills which apply decent Blind are Well of Darkness and Plague Form; I don’t think Well of Darkness is that popular, and Plague of Darkness pretty much tosses out your offensive capabilities. Haunt is right out.

So the “popular” build do not have blind, how does this justify changing a skill entirely? Personally, I find it extremely unreasonable to claim that necros need warrior/guardian level stability because players lack originality and use only popular builds.

Sarrs.4831:

That leaves 2 dodges every 20 seconds. Necromancers have no access to evade frames and no access to vigor. Popular CC centric builds have more control skills than that available to them in that time; most notably, Hambow can put out 4 in that time, with 2-3 Earthshakers, Staggering Blow and Backbreaker. This gets even worse in a group fight where there could be multiple sources of CC bouncing around, let alone coordinated CC.

So if you feel you need more dodges, run a sigil or run that increases endurance. Change you build to add blinds. Personally I have no problems with hambow warriors. So you get no sympathy from me there. If you are not willing to stray away from “the popular” builds and build for what you need, then you deserve what you get. Asking Anet to redesign skills based on your reluctance to step away from the meta, is not the solution.

Whoa, calm down. I’m not advocating any changes with this analysis. I’m just saying that necros have a very finite pool of resources with which to deal with CC, which tends to fall apart when several sources of crowd control are coming in.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Yeah, for as much as you guys have started stressing that this issue needs to be balanced based on group dynamics, why does the Hambow trumps me become relevant at all?

As I have seen in 7 different post, players suggesting they get bounced around like a ping pong ball, then why is their group guardians/warriors not helping you with that? Why do we need to redesign caster skills because your heavies are playing poorly?

Because not a single other class relies 100% on the rest of their team doing their job to not be useless.

Bhawb.7408:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Yeah, for as much as you guys have started stressing that this issue needs to be balanced based on group dynamics, why does the Hambow trumps me become relevant at all?

As I have seen in 7 different post, players suggesting they get bounced around like a ping pong ball, then why is their group guardians/warriors not helping you with that? Why do we need to redesign caster skills because your heavies are playing poorly?

Because not a single other class relies 100% on the rest of their team doing their job to not be useless.

Neither does the necromancer. Necromancers have the job of spreading conditions, doing damage, and very importantly stripping boons. As well as CC with fear.

I am sorry, but I fail to see how your ability to do that, relies on your team. On my necromancer, I am not 100% replying on my team to do my job. I do appreciate the support we give each other.

My main job is to use intelligent placement of my wells to strip boon of my foe and turn them into conditions, while turning my allies conditions into boons. My secondary job is to use my cripples and blinds and immobilize to aid in control of the flow of battle.

I do not need more of my own stability to do this.

coglin.1867:

So what? You guys are pounfing on other points that this should not be balanced around 1v1, then everyone starts mention hambow only. No one cares about hambows, get help from your team. If your team Is leaving the necro to take on the hambow, then the problem is that you need a better team, not that Anet needs to redesigns skills because your incapable of dealing with one build on one profession.

Hambow was just an example. The core af that post was just pretty obvious. We are talking about class balance here. A way to bring up necro’s more into balance, is adding some more stunbreakers. This has nothing to do with teams.

You are futher more talking about spvp on a low skill level; ‘’spreading conditions and ripping off boons, and using cripples and blinds to aid control of the flow of battle’‘. Good luck with that. I dont know if you have seen the streams of ToL, this won’t be the way to reach those skill levels. You need to be able to cap and def a capturepoint by yourself. I’ll give you applause if you can do that with your scepter/focus condtion spreading and corruptbooning. Applying conditions in the most effective way, which is a combination of staff + scepter/focus in my opinion are effective ways to win a low level hotjoin. Not a good PvP match.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

dancingmonkey.4902:

All of which are actively cast. Claiming we have no active negating abilities is untrue.

No, it is quite true. Death Shroud doesn’t negate anything.

LOL.

So what you’re saying is that having the best counter-burst class with the single biggest health pool and defensive resources in the game is not capable of negating things like burst damage which requires the expense of multiple/all utility skills/skills/resources to execute is not a means of negating anything? Your class negates and just blatantly beats entire characters/builds alone just by pressing F1.

When that thief stabs you for 16k and you just walk away, still retaining a huge base health pool and having a substantial amount of life force left… do you realize that such a skill/skill combo would have just instantly killed:
Thieves, Eles, Rangers, Guardians, Mesmers, and Engineers?

Or that warrior doing a 22k HB during a knockdown? That axe/axe warrior peforming a 17k eviscerate?

That mesmer with the 17k damage tri-shatter?

Death shroud is the best mitigation/negation in the game. Why? Because it lets you not die when you rightfully should have, and in doing so lets you just walk over other people while they wait for cooldowns and utilities.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Hambow was just an example. The core af that post was just pretty obvious. We are talking about class balance here.

If it is just an example, then what justified multiple posters battering those who disagree with you about how you cannot make one to one comparisons, just to go on and do it themselves? It is not just an example. It is a bad example. If that is your example to balance the necro against, then I feel you see balance from a very different perspective then most players.

HeadCrowned.6834:

A way to bring up necro’s more into balance, is adding some more stunbreakers. This has nothing to do with teams.

Read the OP. This threads title, original post, and designed purpose has nothing to do with stun breakers. The word stun breaker is no where in the title or the OP. What is there is a specific demand for 5s or more of stability. I feel adding stability to it is not balanced.

You are futher more talking about spvp on a low skill level; ‘’spreading conditions and ripping off boons, and using cripples and blinds to aid control of the flow of battle’’.

I am? Mind quoting where I specified sPvP??? If your confused, perhaps you could ask for the game mode or more context, but to sit here and tell me what I meant or refered to when you do not know, is not wise. Particularly when your assumption is wrong.

HeadCrowned.6834:

I’ll give you applause if you can do that with your scepter/focus condtion spreading and corruptbooning.

Hmm, I am looking back and see multiple post in which i list my weapons set. Neither of which are what your listing. If you do not want to have a serious conversation, please just say so, but making inaccurate claims for me is doing nothing for anyones ability to take you seriously.

DeceiverX.8361:

LOL.

So what you’re saying is that having the best counter-burst class with the single biggest health pool and defensive resources in the game is not capable of negating things like burst damage which requires the expense of multiple/all utility skills/skills/resources to execute is not a means of negating anything? Your class negates and just blatantly beats entire characters/builds alone just by pressing F1.

When that thief stabs you for 16k and you just walk away, still retaining a huge base health pool and having a substantial amount of life force left… do you realize that such a skill/skill combo would have just instantly killed:
Thieves, Eles, Rangers, Guardians, Mesmers, and Engineers?

Or that warrior doing a 22k HB during a knockdown? That axe/axe warrior peforming a 17k eviscerate?

That mesmer with the 17k damage tri-shatter?

Death shroud is the best mitigation/negation in the game. Why? Because it lets you not die when you rightfully should have, and in doing so lets you just walk over other people while they wait for cooldowns and utilities.

We have the ability to temporarily extend our HP by 70% of what it would be, sure. So the full 12k killshot just gets absorbed by DS. Is that good? Yes. Did it actually NEGATE the killshot? No, we simply tanked the kitten out of it. But what if he tried to killshot someone else? They evade, they dodge, they block, they invuln, etc. Now what if 5 warriors all killshot you? The necromancer STILL has to face tank all the damage, only now we don’t have the ability to, because all we have is flat HP, so we absorb all 60k damage to the face. Every other class? They still take 0 damage, because they NEGATE the attack completely.

And again, the topic of this thread is specifically to give us stability. Something that does not directly reduce the damage we take at all. It is simply acknowledging that Necromancers are forced to face tank all the damage that comes at us, so we should actually have access to the tools to do that, like every single other class has access to their own type of mechanics to deal with incoming damage.

You suggest they (referring to other professions) dodge as if that is not an option to necromancers. You shouldn’t do that.

Does it negate it, absolutely. It negates it from effecting your regular health pool. Which is in part, what your professional mechanic, was designed to do. The skills you listed simply negate the effects differently. They avoid it all together. I play D/D and have a 900 range blind every 14s. As well as a 10s weakness every 20s, which also negates a portion of not just the heavy hitters, but all damage for 10s

Why you mention those when they having nothing to do with the topic of Stability though, is beyond me.

Bhawb.7408:

DeceiverX.8361:

LOL.

So what you’re saying is that having the best counter-burst class with the single biggest health pool and defensive resources in the game is not capable of negating things like burst damage which requires the expense of multiple/all utility skills/skills/resources to execute is not a means of negating anything? Your class negates and just blatantly beats entire characters/builds alone just by pressing F1.

When that thief stabs you for 16k and you just walk away, still retaining a huge base health pool and having a substantial amount of life force left… do you realize that such a skill/skill combo would have just instantly killed:
Thieves, Eles, Rangers, Guardians, Mesmers, and Engineers?

Or that warrior doing a 22k HB during a knockdown? That axe/axe warrior peforming a 17k eviscerate?

That mesmer with the 17k damage tri-shatter?

Death shroud is the best mitigation/negation in the game. Why? Because it lets you not die when you rightfully should have, and in doing so lets you just walk over other people while they wait for cooldowns and utilities.

We have the ability to temporarily extend our HP by 70% of what it would be, sure. So the full 12k killshot just gets absorbed by DS. Is that good? Yes. Did it actually NEGATE the killshot? No, we simply tanked the kitten out of it. But what if he tried to killshot someone else? They evade, they dodge, they block, they invuln, etc. Now what if 5 warriors all killshot you? The necromancer STILL has to face tank all the damage, only now we don’t have the ability to, because all we have is flat HP, so we absorb all 60k damage to the face. Every other class? They still take 0 damage, because they NEGATE the attack completely.

And again, the topic of this thread is specifically to give us stability. Something that does not directly reduce the damage we take at all. It is simply acknowledging that Necromancers are forced to face tank all the damage that comes at us, so we should actually have access to the tools to do that, like every single other class has access to their own type of mechanics to deal with incoming damage.

Are you implying then that you are incapable of dodging?
If any other class is missing their active damage mitigation, then they also die. Actually, if any class gets targeted by five warriors using killshot, they will all likely die if the warriors are working together in an organized way.

Actually, why the hell would five warriors ever get together and use killshot to kill someone? It only takes one with a hammer lol.

The fact of the matter is that you’re arguing for something which is unnecessary. Yea, if there were skills which hti for 60k, then fine, I’d agree, but the fact you’re arguing to get a mechanism to be able to survive five warriors using killshot without needing to dodge is absolutely bonkers when every other class has to do just that to mitigate such damage.

The thread is about stability, sure, but your point arguing that Necros need to tank harder because they don’t have it is moot seeing as they can just ignore all of the incoming damage anyways. Giving necros stability or simply more negation than mitigation simply would make them the undisputed best tanks in the game, especially since they can already DPS bomb with conditions in a PvP environment while running dire gear.

It’s why I see no justification behind this issue; what you’re asking for would simply break the class to the point necro would be the only thing played because nothing could take damage better.

You guys are missing the point were trying to make. Necros dont have any form of active defence other than the base dodges. Every other class has a wide range of options for active defence + the base dodges. Im fine with necro having less methods for active defence but having none and no decent access to stability has created a huge weakness for the necro.

I could make a huge list of things that necro has none of but all other 7 classes do have. Its kind of depressing when people dont see how much a necro lacks. Im actually surprised they hold up as well as they do with the limited options they currently have.

DeceiverX.8361:

Are you implying then that you are incapable of dodging?
If any other class is missing their active damage mitigation, then they also die. Actually, if any class gets targeted by five warriors using killshot, they will all likely die if the warriors are working together in an organized way.

Actually, why the hell would five warriors ever get together and use killshot to kill someone? It only takes one with a hammer lol.

The fact of the matter is that you’re arguing for something which is unnecessary. Yea, if there were skills which hti for 60k, then fine, I’d agree, but the fact you’re arguing to get a mechanism to be able to survive five warriors using killshot without needing to dodge is absolutely bonkers when every other class has to do just that to mitigate such damage.

The thread is about stability, sure, but your point arguing that Necros need to tank harder because they don’t have it is moot seeing as they can just ignore all of the incoming damage anyways. Giving necros stability or simply more negation than mitigation simply would make them the undisputed best tanks in the game, especially since they can already DPS bomb with conditions in a PvP environment while running dire gear.

It’s why I see no justification behind this issue; what you’re asking for would simply break the class to the point necro would be the only thing played because nothing could take damage better.

Tbh, it seems like you’ve missed the actual important point from Bhawb’s post, which is the second paragraph. No one is saying that the necro should be given a “mechanism to be able to survive five warriors using killshot without needing to dodge.” They are arguing for and on-demand stab utility. Stability will do nothing to increase the necro’s ability to absorb damage, only make it so that the necro actually has a chance to cast its skills while taking damage.

We are not missing the point. We simply see no value in your point. As necros we have blinds, weakness, the largest base health pool, and DS health pool to allow us to take the hits.

Georc.2958:

Stability will do nothing to increase the necro’s ability to absorb damage, only make it so that the necro actually has a chance to cast its skills while taking damage.

As was pointed out previously, the professions are based on group play, and you have group mates designed to give stability to you. Which they can and will do. I see it every day. Bhawb was very quick to point this out earlier.

I will admit, I am not very knowledgeable on all options available to all other classes, but why do you seem to be so against giving necros a reliable utility skill that will give necros a chance to get out of chain CC for a few sec when seemingly every other class has at least one? Surely you don’t think that giving necro something like Guardian’s “Stand Your Ground” (assuming it only affects yourself and not your teammates like the shout does) will make necros OP? I mean, they still have to give up an otherwise offensive utility to bring it.

Surely I do think it will make them OP. They alreasy have advantages that other professions do not have.

You can’t give the necromancer more stability when CC is its designed weakness. Necromancers just need more blinds, weakness and ways to generate life force against multiple opponents.

Oh yeah, and the big one, for siphoning to not suck.

CC is designed to be the weakness of the, claimed by the devs, attrition class? Mobility is designed to be our weakness.
We are designed to be able to put pressure on the oponente while being able to stand our own ground and not being CCed to death, having stability on a skill that has no real purpose on the current meta is not a bad idea.

Carlos.7915:

We are designed to be able to put pressure on the oponente while being able to stand our own ground and not being CCed to death, having stability on a skill that has no real purpose on the current meta is not a bad idea.

Umm, I am looking at Jonathan Sharp’s write up on balance philosophies by profession right now, and it says nothing close to what you suggest the profession is designed for here.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Your justication for stability applies to engineer, thief, and mesmer as well. Only they do not have the HP to take the damage while stunned. Are you good with them getting similar levels of stability?

It doesnt because evade, block and teleport skills which have identical function but with the addition of mobility or damage immunity.

Necros designated weakness is mobility, not cc.

dancingmonkey.4902:

We are not missing the point. We simply see no value in your point. As necros we have blinds, weakness, the largest base health pool, and DS health pool to allow us to take the hits.

And how do you propose blinding, weakening, or restoring that HP pool when you are a glorified beach ball?

Necromancer is the only class in the game that has absolutely no reactive mechanics to nullify damage, outside of the base dodges everyone gets (and even a non-CC build will have more than 2 things you need to dodge). CC completely bars us from all the mechanics that would allow us to actually deal with CC. Basically what is being said is “you better outplay your opponent 100% of the time without fail, or you just aren’t allowed to play the game because you’ll be CCed to death”.

dancingmonkey.4902:

You suggest they (referring to other professions) dodge as if that is not an option to necromancers. You shouldn’t do that.

Does it negate it, absolutely. It negates it from effecting your regular health pool. Which is in part, what your professional mechanic, was designed to do. The skills you listed simply negate the effects differently. They avoid it all together. I play D/D and have a 900 range blind every 14s. As well as a 10s weakness every 20s, which also negates a portion of not just the heavy hitters, but all damage for 10s

Why you mention those when they having nothing to do with the topic of Stability though, is beyond me.

you also have teleports and a way to run away if things get ugly, you have immunities that allow you to negate damage just like ds does for a necro, only it does NOT take away your skills

this topic is about giving necro a way to actually do something and contribute to the fight if only for a short time just like an ele can when heavily focused….

dancingmonkey.4902:

Carlos.7915:

We are designed to be able to put pressure on the oponente while being able to stand our own ground and not being CCed to death, having stability on a skill that has no real purpose on the current meta is not a bad idea.

Umm, I am looking at Jonathan Sharp’s write up on balance philosophies by profession right now, and it says nothing close to what you suggest the profession is designed for here.

``The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights.``
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012#post999247
``The Necro, on the other hand, should be the dude you CANNOT get away from. It’s an attrition based class``
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/PHEW/first#post612396
We currently dont have many ways to win attrition fights btw

DeceiverX.8361:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

dancingmonkey.4902:

All of which are actively cast. Claiming we have no active negating abilities is untrue.

No, it is quite true. Death Shroud doesn’t negate anything.

LOL.

So what you’re saying is that having the best counter-burst class with the single biggest health pool and defensive resources in the game is not capable of negating things like burst damage which requires the expense of multiple/all utility skills/skills/resources to execute is not a means of negating anything? Your class negates and just blatantly beats entire characters/builds alone just by pressing F1.

Memser negates burst by hitting F4/sword 2
Warrior negates burst by hitting shield 4/sword 5/endure pain (only one of them is necessary)
Elementalist negates burst by hitting Earth Focus 4/Mist Form/Arcane Shield (only one is necessary, though Arcane Shield is limited to shorter burst negations)
Engineer negates burst by hitting Shield 5/Gear Shield/Elixer S
Thief negates burst by hitting any one of their teleports or evades (and they have lots of them)
Guardian negates burst by hitting Focus 5/Shelter/Renewed Focus
Ranger negates burst by hitting Greatsword 4/Sword 2/3, Dagger 4/Protect Me
Necro absorbs burst with F1.

Notice what’s different about that last one? Absorbs, not negates. The necro is still taking full damage from burst while in death shroud. It may not be taken to the actual health (until it overflows the death shroud), but it is still taken as it depletes their bar.

Every class has method to negate burst with a single skill. Except necro. Necros have the option to take it to the face.

Drarnor Kunoram., none of that is true at all to be totally honest.

You are stating professions as a whole do this or that. This is untrue. Your listing very specific weapons or utility choices, and using them to define the profession. For example, you mention engineer shield or ele focus. What does this have to do with a P/P or rifle engineer, or D/D or staff ele. Staff+scepter/torch mesmer (which is very popular as far as I have seen) cannot do anything close to what you mention with swords.

It becomes a slipperly slop when we start trying to define balance in one profession based on its comparison to very specific builds in other profession.

Find me an engineer that wouldn’t love the ability to cleanse conditions and send them back to the opponent.

Are you for giving engineers the ability to cast their condition off and on to their opponent?

Are you for giving guardians equivalent HP pool to that of the necro?

Why not give thieves minions, that seems fair right? Necros get them, there for it justifies every other profession access to it. right?

I do not see it as necros taking anything in the face. The death shroud takes it for the necro. A large portion of the skills you listed are blocks, or classified as blocks in the game. Necro has a rare ability to make an entire weapon set unblock able. Sure seems odd to me, that a profession that can make skills unblock able, would use the other professions block ability as a balancing argument.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Drarnor Kunoram., none of that is true at all to be totally honest.

You are stating professions as a whole do this or that. This is untrue. Your listing very specific weapons or utility choices, and using them to define the profession. For example, you mention engineer shield or ele focus. What does this have to do with a P/P or rifle engineer, or D/D or staff ele. Staff+scepter/torch mesmer (which is very popular as far as I have seen) cannot do anything close to what you mention with swords.

It becomes a slipperly slop when we start trying to define balance in one profession based on its comparison to very specific builds in other profession.

Find me an engineer that wouldn’t love the ability to cleanse conditions and send them back to the opponent.

Are you for giving engineers the ability to cast their condition off and on to their opponent?

Are you for giving guardians equivalent HP pool to that of the necro?

Why not give thieves minions, that seems fair right? Necros get them, there for it justifies every other profession access to it. right?

I do not see it as necros taking anything in the face. The death shroud takes it for the necro. A large portion of the skills you listed are blocks, or classified as blocks in the game. Necro has a rare ability to make an entire weapon set unblock able. Sure seems odd to me, that a profession that can make skills unblock able, would use the other professions block ability as a balancing argument.

You’re actually doing the same as him, cuz certain necro builds have a very limited access to Death Shroud. People see it as another 20k of health, in fact that bar is empty way more quickly than they think. Necro’s do not have continuous access to Death Shroud, while some other professions have very low cooldowns before they have access to stability again. This is one of the reasons that the downstate of necro’s is pretty bad. This topic is not meant to become the same as a warrior or guardian, but the necro have NONE access to stability. And that, you can consider out of balance.

HeadCrowned.6834:

You’re actually doing the same as him, cuz certain necro builds have a very limited access to Death Shroud. People see it as another 20k of health, in fact that bar is empty way more quickly than they think. Necro’s do not have continuous access to Death Shroud, while some other professions have very low cooldowns before they have access to stability again. This is one of the reasons that the downstate of necro’s is pretty bad. This topic is not meant to become the same as a warrior or guardian, but the necro have NONE access to stability. And that, you can consider out of balance.

So which necro build do you use that does not have access to DS? Unless you can explain that, Those two are no where near suggesting the same thing.

The opinion of the down state for the necromancer is subjective. Personally I feel it is the 3rd best, behind thief, and mesmer, of coarse the situation and location of where you are downed can change the value greatly.

Now as far as your statement that :

HeadCrowned.6834:

necro have NONE access to stability

Well of power pulses it.
Lich form offers 30s of stability.
Plague form grants 20s of stability.
Foot in the grave grants 3s of stability when in DS.

With boon duration build you can have 5 seconds of stability upon entering DS.

I see one of two problems here. Either you still have a bit of learning to do of your profession, which happens sometimes when you are new to it, but also means you probably shouldn’t lecture on it, or you are intentionally making false suggestions for the sake of your argument.

You claim not having stability or limited access to it is out of balance, so are you suggesting thief needs more stability? as necros have more then thief.

HeadCrowned.6834:

coglin.1867:

HeadCrowned.6834:

You’re actually doing the same as him, cuz certain necro builds have a very limited access to Death Shroud. People see it as another 20k of health, in fact that bar is empty way more quickly than they think. Necro’s do not have continuous access to Death Shroud, while some other professions have very low cooldowns before they have access to stability again. This is one of the reasons that the downstate of necro’s is pretty bad. This topic is not meant to become the same as a warrior or guardian, but the necro have NONE access to stability. And that, you can consider out of balance.

So which necro build do you use that does not have access to DS? Unless you can explain that, Those two are no where near suggesting the same thing.

The opinion of the down state for the necromancer is subjective. Personally I feel it is the 3rd best, behind thief, and mesmer, of coarse the situation and location of where you are downed can change the value greatly.

Now as far as your statement that :

HeadCrowned.6834:

necro have NONE access to stability

Well of power pulses it.
Lich form offers 30s of stability.
Plague form grants 20s of stability.
Foot in the grave grants 3s of stability when in DS.

With boon duration build you can have 5 seconds of stability upon entering DS.

I see one of two problems here. Either you still have a bit of learning to do of your profession, which happens sometimes when you are new to it, but also means you probably shouldn’t lecture on it, or you are intentionally making false suggestions for the sake of your argument.

You claim not having stability or limited access to it is out of balance, so are you suggesting thief needs more stability? as necros have more then thief.

You have to learn as well, cuz WoP does not pulse stability.
Second, thief has way more options to dodge. The Necro doesn’t. No Vigor either.
Further more you say that I’m stating that certain necro’s do not have access to DS. Please quote me where I said that. Read better next time, I’m not saying that.
The downstate of the necro is hardly subjective, because the graphical image of the fear attack is very obvious and slow, and ofc not working on players with stability. The #1 attack on downstate hits very low, and the healing is too low, you’ll lose any ‘’down state battle’’ to another profession. And the fact that you don’t mention the ranger down state above the necro downstate in your top 3 makes me even more doubt your arguments.

Oh and wait. Stability on an elite skill with those cooldowns? -.-

coglin.1867:

Well of power pulses it.

Uncorrect, it allows it just on the cast, not every pulse.

Lich form offers 30s of stability.
Plague form grants 20s of stability.

These aren’t utilities.

Foot in the grave grants 3s of stability when in DS.

30 pts in Soul Reaping to get stability isn’t worth at all.

I see one of two problems here. Either you still have a bit of learning to do of your profession, which happens sometimes when you are new to it, but also means you probably shouldn’t lecture on it, or you are intentionally making false suggestions for the sake of your argument.

Probably your case.

You claim not having stability or limited access to it is out of balance, so are you suggesting thief needs more stability? as necros have more then thief.

Thief has another style of play it’s extremely evasive whith perma evades and stealth which garants him more control and more damage soaking.
This point is… pointless.

coglin.1867:

So which necro build do you use that does not have access to DS? Unless you can explain that, Those two are no where near suggesting the same thing.

If you pick a fight with a Necromancer at the start of a match and dodge their key lifeforce generators, you can put them in a tricky spot.

MM is a build which you can be entirely dependent on one weapon to generate your life force. You don’t get spec armor as MM, so it’s easy to catch an MM out without their LF to fall back on.

coglin.1867:

Now as far as your statement that :

HeadCrowned.6834:

necro have NONE access to stability

Well of power pulses it.
Lich form offers 30s of stability.
Plague form grants 20s of stability.
Foot in the grave grants 3s of stability when in DS.

With boon duration build you can have 5 seconds of stability upon entering DS.

I see one of two problems here. Either you still have a bit of learning to do of your profession, which happens sometimes when you are new to it, but also means you probably shouldn’t lecture on it, or you are intentionally making false suggestions for the sake of your argument.

You claim not having stability or limited access to it is out of balance, so are you suggesting thief needs more stability? as necros have more then thief.

Hold up.

Well of Power does not pulse Stability. It causes one tick of stability at the start of the ability so that it can successfully cause its stunbreak. It doesn’t pulse stability.
Lich Form and Plague Form do both grant stability, but you lose access to Death Shroud, your utilities and your heal so long as it’s active. They’re not like Dagger Storm, you can’t flip right back out of the form to just get the stability.
Foot in the Grave is decent, but both of its opportunity costs are very painful. You either pass up the opportunity to get Deathly Perception, or make it very difficult for you to grab your build’s other essentials(Dhuumfire/Path of Corruption/Terror).

What Crowned said is technically false, as you do have access to stability, but you give up a lot to get it- A lot more than anyone else.

coglin.1867:

HeadCrowned.6834:

You’re actually doing the same as him, cuz certain necro builds have a very limited access to Death Shroud. People see it as another 20k of health, in fact that bar is empty way more quickly than they think. Necro’s do not have continuous access to Death Shroud, while some other professions have very low cooldowns before they have access to stability again. This is one of the reasons that the downstate of necro’s is pretty bad. This topic is not meant to become the same as a warrior or guardian, but the necro have NONE access to stability. And that, you can consider out of balance.

So which necro build do you use that does not have access to DS? Unless you can explain that, Those two are no where near suggesting the same thing.

The opinion of the down state for the necromancer is subjective. Personally I feel it is the 3rd best, behind thief, and mesmer, of coarse the situation and location of where you are downed can change the value greatly.

Now as far as your statement that :

HeadCrowned.6834:

necro have NONE access to stability

Well of power pulses it.
Lich form offers 30s of stability.
Plague form grants 20s of stability.
Foot in the grave grants 3s of stability when in DS.

With boon duration build you can have 5 seconds of stability upon entering DS.

I see one of two problems here. Either you still have a bit of learning to do of your profession, which happens sometimes when you are new to it, but also means you probably shouldn’t lecture on it, or you are intentionally making false suggestions for the sake of your argument.

You claim not having stability or limited access to it is out of balance, so are you suggesting thief needs more stability? as necros have more then thief.

My well build does.jot.benefit. from DS saying that all necros build around Ds is ignorant.
Ds needs to.get looked at in general. And a couple.seconds.of stability on a.signet will.not.hurt anything. Right now.activating it isnt even worth it in most cases.
Why will stability on necro make it op?

alamore.1974:

Right now.activating it isnt even worth it in most cases.

This is worth noting in particular because there are very very few situations where Signet of Locust is even worth pressing. You need to have 5 targets in range for it to do much for you, and unless you’re traited for it, it won’t even do that much healing. It’s really a very bad Signet because, like Healing Signet, you should never activate it ever.

Luke.4562:

These aren’t utilities.

Okay, so now after pages of demands for stability and repeated claims that you do not have any, 17% and 11% up time on stability, seems pretty good to me Warriors balance stance is only 20% and Guardians stand your ground is only 17%. SO now we went from necromancer has NONE (because that is specifically what is in the statement he quoted and responded to) on over to claiming having 11%-17% uptime is not good enough.

Luke.4562:

30 pts in Soul Reaping to get stability isn’t worth at all.

I see. So it is worth demanding skill redesign for, but not worth an investment to earn. Seems to me as if you actually do not want it that bad if your unwilling to invest traits for it.

Luke.4562:

Thief has another style of play it’s extremely evasive whith perma evades and stealth which garants him more control and more damage soaking.
This point is… pointless.

Ah, I see, so when others suggest what they feel is a play style with a professional mechanic and abilities that make it imbalanced to give the more stability , such as the necro, then the objection suddenly become irrelevant. Yet when applying the same reasoning to another profession, all of the sudden it is valid. It either applies to all or none.

Sarrs.4831:

If you pick a fight with a Necromancer at the start of a match and dodge their key lifeforce generators, you can put them in a tricky spot.

And?

I do not understand how this makes the necro special. Isn’t that the point of dodges?

If you dodge VoJ, Earth Shaker, BoB, any ranger F2 CC ability, steal, or any shatter, then you just negated 5 other professions mechanics entirely. If you expect sympathy because dodging key skills lessens your professions effectiveness, you won’t find any.

alamore.1974:

My well build does.jot.benefit. from DS saying that all necros build around Ds is ignorant.

I read the post, I do not see where he said this at all. Feel free to quote his post in which he said anything about “building around it”.

Foot in the Grave is unreachable for many builds. You can’t afford it in a minion build, you can’t afford it in a DPS power build. At the moment you can finally afford it again in a condi build now that dhuumfire has been nerfed. So one build has access to stability, awesome.

Elites are not access to general stability. The stability goes away if you end the transform early. So our only access to stability that isn’t heavily gated behind a trait wall requires you to lock away all your skills. Again, this is something that not a single other class has to put up with.

dancingmonkey.4902:

And?

I do not understand how this makes the necro special. Isn’t that the point of dodges?

If you dodge VoJ, Earth Shaker, BoB, any ranger F2 CC ability, steal, or any shatter, then you just negated 5 other professions mechanics entirely. If you expect sympathy because dodging key skills lessens your professions effectiveness, you won’t find any.

I said it to directly address Coglin’s question; “which necro build do you use that does not have access to DS”. Some builds can be starved to the point of having no lifeforce at all with intelligent dodges

On “you can dodge other class’s profession mechanics entirely”, yes, you can dodge them- but you can’t negate the entirety of their class professions.

- VoJ is only one of three guardian virtues. You can’t dodge the other two.
- Adrenaline itself is useful, not exclusively for the F1. Defense 15 gives you healing if you have more Adrenaline. Secondly, it is not possible to prevent all F1s (longbow is popular for a reason), and even if you do prevent an F1, it doesn’t consume their Adrenaline (to the best of my knowledge).
- BoB… not sure what this is
- Ranger F2 abilities are not the entirety of their class mechanic. If dodging the F2 deleted the pet, then yes, it would be negated entirely.
- Steal is not entirely nullified by dodging. They still shadowstep to you.
- Mesmers have 4 shatters, one of which is undodgable. Secondarily, a more appropriate comparison is with a mesmer’s clone generation.

I don’t expect sympathy, and if someone has built themselves into a position where their LF generation can be starved and then they get starved, then that’s fair play to the starver. But I’m answering the question- What build can get themselves into a situation where they have very little LF.

dancingmonkey

Luke.4562:
These aren’t utilities.
Okay, so now after pages of demands for stability and repeated claims that you do not have any, 17% and 11% up time on stability, seems pretty good to me Warriors balance stance is only 20% and Guardians stand your ground is only 17%. SO now we went from necromancer has NONE (because that is specifically what is in the statement he quoted and responded to) on over to claiming having 11%-17% uptime is not good enough.
Luke.4562:
30 pts in Soul Reaping to get stability isn’t worth at all.
I see. So it is worth demanding skill redesign for, but not worth an investment to earn. Seems to me as if you actually do not want it that bad if your unwilling to invest traits for it.
Luke.4562:
Thief has another style of play it’s extremely evasive whith perma evades and stealth which garants him more control and more damage soaking.
This point is… pointless.
Ah, I see, so when others suggest what they feel is a play style with a professional mechanic and abilities that make it imbalanced to give the more stability , such as the necro, then the objection suddenly become irrelevant. Yet when applying the same reasoning to another profession, all of the sudden it is valid. It either applies to all or none.
Sarrs.4831:
If you pick a fight with a Necromancer at the start of a match and dodge their key lifeforce generators, you can put them in a tricky spot.
And?
I do not understand how this makes the necro special. Isn’t that the point of dodges?
If you dodge VoJ, Earth Shaker, BoB, any ranger F2 CC ability, steal, or any shatter, then you just negated 5 other professions mechanics entirely. If you expect sympathy because dodging key skills lessens your professions effectiveness, you won’t find any.
alamore.1974:
My well build does.jot.benefit. from DS saying that all necros build around Ds is ignorant.
I read the post, I do not see where he said this at all. Feel free to quote his post in which he said anything about “building around it”.

Ofcourse you don’t spend 6 points on Soulreaping to get 3 seconds of stability, WHILE you’re in Death Shroud. That is a pretty bad grandmaster trait actually. Likely, only terrormancers will put that much points in that traitline. It is kinda sad that you say that we ‘’apparently do not want stability that bad’’ if we are not willing to get 6 into Soul Reaping. Do you want to get into the ToL finals but give up your own car? I hope not.
And yes, an elite skill is not comparable to an utility that might give stability. Further more your percentages are not right, it is 14% for Lich and 10% for Plague (and then you still have to use the elite skill immediately when it is available, which happens only theoretically.)
And also that guy made a comparison between Thief and Necro; ‘’Thief has even less stability than Necro’’. Which might be true, but Thieves can dodge and escape WAY more than the Necro. Read the whole context please.
However, what build is your Necro?

Sarrs.4831:

alamore.1974:

Right now.activating it isnt even worth it in most cases.

This is worth noting in particular because there are very very few situations where Signet of Locust is even worth pressing. You need to have 5 targets in range for it to do much for you, and unless you’re traited for it, it won’t even do that much healing. It’s really a very bad Signet because, like Healing Signet, you should never activate it ever.

No your right i miss read. He say all necros have access to DS. And.if.you build is.not focused around DS then you are not traited towards.DS and dont get stability.
And yes you agree activating SoL is hardly ever worth it.
But saying that signets.should never.be.activated makes absolutely no sense. If they were.not.ment.to.be.activated the there.would.be.no activated cost. Right now.it.is.norlt worth anything but.with 3 sec stab makes it worth taking.

All.other necro signets are worth activating
Mesmer sig are worth it.
Ranger sigs so so id have.to make a pet ranger and see how.they work 1rst
Theives sig of agility is the only one i see not truely worth it.
Gaurdian sig of mercy nice but not that great
Elementalist sig of water is meh but in the right.buikd the.chill could be .utilized
Warrior sig of furry verry situational and sig of healing actuve is.verry meh. I.beleive theres a post in warrior forum already about that.
But necro sig of locus is not really worth using active at all. Health it siphs aint even worth it.

@headcrowned
I run a tanky well vampire build were.im constantly gain hp from my wells, when.i pop Ds i no longer get heals nulling that affect.
The only time i us Ds is to stall a sec or 2 for cool downs and then i come right.out.and.drop wells.
Its a verry tanky build with good.damage.out put
Power not.conditions.

alamore.1974:

But saying that signets.should never.be.activated makes absolutely no sense. If they were.not.ment.to.be.activated the there.would.be.no activated cost. Right now.it.is.norlt worth anything but.with 3 sec stab makes it worth taking.

That’s what I mean when I say it’s a bad signet.

A good signet is one which is a tough decision whether you want to use it or keep the passive.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Drarnor Kunoram., none of that is true at all to be totally honest.

You are stating professions as a whole do this or that. This is untrue. Your listing very specific weapons or utility choices, and using them to define the profession. For example, you mention engineer shield or ele focus. What does this have to do with a P/P or rifle engineer, or D/D or staff ele. Staff+scepter/torch mesmer (which is very popular as far as I have seen) cannot do anything close to what you mention with swords.

Where did I say any of that was inherent? Only the Mesmer F4 is inherent for burst negation. The point I was making is that every profession has options they can use to negate burst. Every profession except necro, that is.

I do not see it as necros taking anything in the face. The death shroud takes it for the necro. A large portion of the skills you listed are blocks, or classified as blocks in the game. Necro has a rare ability to make an entire weapon set unblock able. Sure seems odd to me, that a profession that can make skills unblock able, would use the other professions block ability as a balancing argument.

The necro is very much taking it to the face. Sure, they don’t lose actual health from it (until it overflows, which it frequently does), but it still depletes their survivability. They still take the full effects from the attacks that hit them while in death shroud, they just lose life force instead of health. Burst into death shroud and you still hurt the necro. Burst into any of the methods I listed and you accomplish nothing.

Also, necros still can’t make an entire weapon set unblockable. 4/5 skills, yes, but not the whole weapon. Even so, you can’t burst with staff, so the point is moot.

coglin.1867:

Bhawb.7408:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Yeah, for as much as you guys have started stressing that this issue needs to be balanced based on group dynamics, why does the Hambow trumps me become relevant at all?

As I have seen in 7 different post, players suggesting they get bounced around like a ping pong ball, then why is their group guardians/warriors not helping you with that? Why do we need to redesign caster skills because your heavies are playing poorly?

Because not a single other class relies 100% on the rest of their team doing their job to not be useless.

Neither does the necromancer. Necromancers have the job of spreading conditions, doing damage, and very importantly stripping boons. As well as CC with fear.

I am sorry, but I fail to see how your ability to do that, relies on your team. On my necromancer, I am not 100% replying on my team to do my job. I do appreciate the support we give each other.

My main job is to use intelligent placement of my wells to strip boon of my foe and turn them into conditions, while turning my allies conditions into boons. My secondary job is to use my cripples and blinds and immobilize to aid in control of the flow of battle.

I do not need more of my own stability to do this.

Engi does a better job of spreading conditions than a necro. As for boon stripping you have mesmers, sigil and thief. For team support you have eles, engis, guards, wars and rangers(if you can call it that). Could go into a scenario of how you could be low on life force and needing your team to save your kitten when enemy team focuses on you. Where no other class would need it for having simply an “oh kitten” button on demand, but that would be pointless.

Just thought id go through all active damage avoidance in the game and i decided to add cleave aswell.

Cleave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleave

Guardian – 4 weapons
Warrior – 5 weapons
Engi – 1 Kit
Ranger – 2 weapons + 1 pet type
Thief – 1 weapon
Ele – 1 weapon + 1 conjure
Mesmer – 1 weapon
Necro – 0

Active Defence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endurance

Guardian – 5 Projectile block/reflects, 6 Blocks, 1 Invuln, 0 Evades, 2 endurance regen 14 active defence options
Shield of Absorption, Zealots Defence, Wall of Reflect, Shield of the Avenger, Sanctuary, Protector's Strike, Shield of Wrath, Shelter, Retreat, Virtue of Courage, Communal Defences, Renewed Focus, Vigorous Precision, Save Yourselves

Warrior – 1 reflect, 3 Blocks, 4 Invulns, 1 Evade, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options (16 if you count 3 reflects)
Missile Deflection (3 blocks), Counterblow, Riposte, Shield Stance ,Defy Pain ,Defiant Stance , Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, Whirlwind Attack ,Quick Breathing ,Vigorous Focus, Call to Arms, Signet of Stamina, Building Momentum

Engi – 4 Projectile block/reflects, 2 Blocks, 2 Invulns, 0 Evades, 7 endurance regen
15 active defence options (20 if you count turret reflects)
Fortified Turrets (6 turrets), Magnetic Shield, Elixir U, Air Blast, Static Shield, Gear Shield, Self Regulating Defences, Elixir S, Invigorating Speed, Gadgeteer, Experimental Turrets, Elixir H, Elixir R, Adrenal Implant, Adrenaline Pump

Ranger – 1 reflect, 1 Block, 1 Invuln, 6 Evades, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options
Whirling Defence, Counterattack, Signet of the Beastmaster, Signet of Stone, Lightning Reflexes, Power Stab, Hornet Sting, Serpents Strike, Stalkers Strike, Quick Shot, Lightning Reflexes, Primal Reflexes, Vigorous Renewal, Vigorous Training, Natural Vigor

Thief – 2 Projectile block/reflects, 0 Blocks, 1 Invuln, 6 Evades, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options
Dagger Storm, Smokescreen, Drink (Steal), Disabling Shot, Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Withdraw, Roll for Initiative, Bountiful Theft, Vigorous Recovery, Signet of Agility, Wild Strike, Feline Grace

Ele – 4 Projectile block/reflects, 3 Blocks, 3 Invulns, 2 Evades, 6 endurance regen
18 active defence options
Magnetic Aura, Magnetic Wave, Swirling Winds, Ring of Earth, Arcane Shield, Final Shielding, Stone Sheath, Mist Form, Obsidian Flesh, Fortify, Burning Retreat, Updraft, Phoenix, Renewing Stamina, Soothing Disruption, Vigorous Scepter, Zephyrs Focus, Arcane Energy

Mesmer – 6 Projectile block/reflects, 2 Blocks, 3 Invulns, 1 Evade , 2 endurance regen 14 active defence options (18 if you count all signet invulns)
Phantasmal Warden, Temportal Curtain, Mirror, Feedback, Mimic, Masterful Reflection, Illusionary Counter, Illusionary Riposte, Distortion, Blurred Inscriptions (5 signets), Triumphant Distortion, Blurred Frenzy, Critical Infusion, Vigorous Revelation

Necro – 1 active defence option
Deathshroud!

I still don’t understand.
“No” stability becomes “little” stability.

And that having to build for it becomes an issue.
And that using DS to stay alive while CC’ed is not the same as blowing utilities to stay alive and blow dodges to prevent the damage to prevent dying (rather than just facetanking the damage).
And that signet of the Locust is not a good signet because it’s not worth activating… except this applies to a ton of other signets across every class.
And that necromancer’s weakness is mobility when they have such high access to mobility via a signet like other classes (dependent on a waste of a skill slot like everyone else) or still having access to it via DS through traits.
And that Necros deserve mitigation + stability + tanking options + the ability to run a MM build for DPS and control.

These demands are absolutely outrageous. If you want to frontline in a zerg, you’re going to have to build for it. Otherwise, do what everyone else has to do and avoid the stunlock through dodges and blind applications.

You’re not getting any sympathy from me as on my eight characters, I do not have stability, teleports, blindspam, or durability on any of them, and I do not get chain-CC’ed because I can use my dodges well and simply avoid getting hit through proper positioning.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Just thought id go through all active damage avoidance in the game and i decided to add cleave aswell.

Cleave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleave

Guardian – 4 weapons
Warrior – 5 weapons
Engi – 1 Kit
Ranger – 2 weapons + 1 pet type
Thief – 1 weapon
Ele – 1 weapon + 1 conjure
Mesmer – 1 weapon
Necro – 0

Active Defence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endurance

Guardian – 5 Projectile block/reflects, 6 Blocks, 1 Invuln, 0 Evades, 2 endurance regen 14 active defence options
Shield of Absorption, Zealots Defence, Wall of Reflect, Shield of the Avenger, Sanctuary, Protector's Strike, Shield of Wrath, Shelter, Retreat, Virtue of Courage, Communal Defences, Renewed Focus, Vigorous Precision, Save Yourselves

Warrior – 1 reflect, 3 Blocks, 4 Invulns, 1 Evade, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options (16 if you count 3 reflects)
Missile Deflection (3 blocks), Counterblow, Riposte, Shield Stance ,Defy Pain ,Defiant Stance , Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, Whirlwind Attack ,Quick Breathing ,Vigorous Focus, Call to Arms, Signet of Stamina, Building Momentum

Engi – 4 Projectile block/reflects, 2 Blocks, 2 Invulns, 0 Evades, 7 endurance regen
15 active defence options (20 if you count turret reflects)
Fortified Turrets (6 turrets), Magnetic Shield, Elixir U, Air Blast, Static Shield, Gear Shield, Self Regulating Defences, Elixir S, Invigorating Speed, Gadgeteer, Experimental Turrets, Elixir H, Elixir R, Adrenal Implant, Adrenaline Pump

Ranger – 1 reflect, 1 Block, 1 Invuln, 6 Evades, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options
Whirling Defence, Counterattack, Signet of the Beastmaster, Signet of Stone, Lightning Reflexes, Power Stab, Hornet Sting, Serpents Strike, Stalkers Strike, Quick Shot, Lightning Reflexes, Primal Reflexes, Vigorous Renewal, Vigorous Training, Natural Vigor

Thief – 2 Projectile block/reflects, 0 Blocks, 1 Invuln, 6 Evades, 5 endurance regen
14 active defence options
Dagger Storm, Smokescreen, Drink (Steal), Disabling Shot, Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Withdraw, Roll for Initiative, Bountiful Theft, Vigorous Recovery, Signet of Agility, Wild Strike, Feline Grace

Ele – 4 Projectile block/reflects, 3 Blocks, 3 Invulns, 2 Evades, 6 endurance regen
18 active defence options
Magnetic Aura, Magnetic Wave, Swirling Winds, Ring of Earth, Arcane Shield, Final Shielding, Stone Sheath, Mist Form, Obsidian Flesh, Fortify, Burning Retreat, Updraft, Phoenix, Renewing Stamina, Soothing Disruption, Vigorous Scepter, Zephyrs Focus, Arcane Energy

Mesmer – 6 Projectile block/reflects, 2 Blocks, 3 Invulns, 1 Evade , 2 endurance regen 14 active defence options (18 if you count all signet invulns)
Phantasmal Warden, Temportal Curtain, Mirror, Feedback, Mimic, Masterful Reflection, Illusionary Counter, Illusionary Riposte, Distortion, Blurred Inscriptions (5 signets), Triumphant Distortion, Blurred Frenzy, Critical Infusion, Vigorous Revelation

Necro – 1 active defence option
Deathshroud!

When did blinds stop negating damage?

When did chill increasing cool downs stop negating damage?

Blinds are not active, you cannot see an earthshaker incoming and think “oh hey, I see him casting earthshaker, let me blind that so I don’t get CCed”. Blind is something attached to either skills like WoD/Plague, which are just general over time area denial effects (not that they do not on their own do anything but make an area that is difficult to be offensively doing damage in), or things like Swarm, where the blind is an incidental effect that will never affect something big unless the other person is bad.

Chill doesn’t negate a single thing, it just increases the time in between a skill being recast.

You are missing the point of active defense, things that you can use to selectively avoid specific things, after seeing them incoming. Note that even if you wanted to include Blinds, we’d still be pitifully behind every single other profession.