Guild Wars 2

Generally I hate those stupid JP’s with a passion and
this sanctum BS is one of the JP’s I have always refused to do at all !

Now it is tied to new content I absolutely want to do and it requires me to do a stinking JP !!!!!!

Come on a.net NOT everyone wants to kitteng play Mario Bros. again I grew up with that kitten game I’ve had enough Mario to last me 2 life times !

Please stop placing achievements in these kitten JP’s will yah !

What’s remarkable about Anet’s intransigence on this is that not only does it kitten off/annoy about 99% of PvE players, from what’ I’ve read, even a healthy portion of the PvP crowd don’t think this is appropriate.

Arrow.4619:

What’s remarkable about Anet’s intransigence on this is that not only does it kitten off/annoy about 99% of PvE players, from what’ I’ve read, even a healthy portion of the PvP crowd don’t think this is appropriate.

Maybe they had already made the content by the time they started hearing the feedback? I really hope that’s it, because I don’t want to believe them so deaf to the pleas of everyone that thinks it’s just plain wrong.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Arrow.4619:

What’s remarkable about Anet’s intransigence on this is that not only does it kitten off/annoy about 99% of PvE players, from what’ I’ve read, even a healthy portion of the PvP crowd don’t think this is appropriate.

Maybe they had already made the content by the time they started hearing the feedback? I really hope that’s it, because I don’t want to believe them so deaf to the pleas of everyone that thinks it’s just plain wrong.

Unfortunately, that would be very typical of Anet. Sometimes they just get stubborn and refuse to admit that one of their ideas might have not been that well thought out – even when faced with a major player discontent(*). It’s entirely possible that this case is exactly what it seems – Anet hearing people criticizing their choices, and deciding to enforce more of those on people just to make their point and showing they disagree.

(* ) Of course, sometimes as a developer you just need to make unpopular but necessary choices – i am specificaly not talking about such situations.

Ursan.7846:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

ZilentNight.5089:

Like stated above, its an achievement. Some will require you to do stuff you may not enjoy, others might.

It is optional like almost everything else in the game.

As the great Sheldon Cooper said: “We have to take in nourishment, expel waste and breathe in enough oxygen to keep our cells from dying. Everything else is purely optional”
Yet, something tells me that a life that’s reduced to fullfilling the non-optional tasks would be pretty boring, don’t you think?
The point I’m trying to make is: The fact that it’s optional isn’t really a reason for people not to want it to be good and entertaining.

This is a silly counterargument. When people say “it’s optional,” they usually mean that the consequences of NOT doing it is minimal. For example, taking a shower is purely optional, yes, but the consequences of not doing so is quite significant.

Whereas not doing the one Obsidian Sanctum achievement has….minimal impact on your gaming experience.

That’s true, but if you think about it, playing the game is optional entirely. People play the game because they choose to and it’s fun. I know that it’s sometimes hard to see beneath all the name calling and flaming (I’m personally getting too emotional over games at times.) but at the core of all the critique is usally the plea for a better gaming experience. And I think that’s justified. Not saying that the developers neccesarily need to take all of it into account, but I think it’s a players right to voice their oppinion on what they like and what they don’t.
And if there is repeated feedback on a certain feature that’s obviously very unpopular, it would be nice to at least see someone of the development or support team come in here and drop us a brief note like: “Hey this is what we think about it, this is why we chose to go with it again, here’s why we implemented it in the game”
I think that would calm a lot of players down.

Astralporing.1957:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Maybe they had already made the content by the time they started hearing the feedback? I really hope that’s it, because I don’t want to believe them so deaf to the pleas of everyone that thinks it’s just plain wrong.

Unfortunately, that would be very typical of Anet. Sometimes they just get stubborn and refuse to admit that one of their ideas might have not been that well thought out – even when faced with a major player discontent(*). It’s entirely possible that this case is exactly what it seems – Anet hearing people criticizing their choices, and deciding to enforce more of those on people just to make their point and showing they disagree.

(* ) Of course, sometimes as a developer you just need to make unpopular but necessary choices – i am specificaly not talking about such situations.

Well the entire sentiment I’ve heard is WvWers either dislike us there or want us there because they consider us PvEers ‘free badges’. Both are bad. And the sentiment I’ve heard from PvEers as that it makes us want to not ever touch WvW again. So if they’re trying to get us to try new things, they are failing. And badly.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

That’s true, but if you think about it, playing the game is optional entirely.

I’m not sure if you really read my post or not, but the consequences of not playing the game is far more significant than the consequences of not getting 15 achievement points. Again, it’s a silly comparison.

You’re completely justified in giving your feedback and your opinions. But it’s not going to change the fact that the things you’re complaining about has insignificant impact on your overall gaming experience (which is why people shove the “but it’s OPTIONAL” argument at you), while many actually derive enjoyment from the very thing you complain about (As can be seen from a good chunk of the replies in the complaint thread explaining to people that a PvP zone…is a PvP zone).

Ursan.7846:

You’re completely justified in giving your feedback and your opinions. But it’s not going to change the fact that the things you’re complaining about has insignificant impact on your overall gaming experience (which is why people shove the “but it’s OPTIONAL” argument at you), while many actually derive enjoyment from the very thing you complain about (As can be seen from a good chunk of the replies in the complaint thread explaining to people that a PvP zone…is a PvP zone).

The complaint is not that it’s a PvP zone. We know that. It’s that, yet again, they are forcing PvE players into a grief-prone PvP zone if they want completion. We know it’s PvP. We just don’t want to be there.

SynfulChaot.3169:

The complaint is not that it’s a PvP zone. We know that. It’s that, yet again, they are forcing PvE players into a grief-prone PvP zone if they want completion. We know it’s PvP. We just don’t want to be there.

Yes I understand what the complaints are about. My statement was made to point out that people who don’t see this as a problem exist.

Again, the consequences of not getting those few achievement points are insignificant. Hence, while it’s justified to voice your opinions, people will continue to point out to you that what you’re complaining about is…insignificant and hence “optional.”

Ursan.7846:

Again, the consequences of not getting those few achievement points are insignificant. Hence, while it’s justified to voice your opinions, people will continue to point out to you that what you’re complaining about is…insignificant and hence “optional.”

Insignificant to them is not insignificant to others. They don’t get to choose what myself or others do or do not find significant. We don’t malign their way of enjoying the game, they should not malign ours.

Ursan.7846:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

That’s true, but if you think about it, playing the game is optional entirely.

I’m not sure if you really read my post or not, but the consequences of not playing the game is far more significant than the consequences of not getting 15 achievement points.

Why? I don’t see any difference there. There are no real consequences for not playing the game after all.

Playing game A instead of game B is no different as an option than the difference between playing content C or D in game B. Both choices are equally (in)significant.

I’d like to point also, than in this specific case the fun of griefers is based solely on the unhappiness of PvE participants. This is a very bad design.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Insignificant to them is not insignificant to others. They don’t get to choose what myself or others do or do not find significant. We don’t malign their way of enjoying the game, they should not malign ours.

I’m not maligning your way of enjoying the game. Do I make fun of people for OCD or completionist tendencies in my posts?

Simply pointing out that objectively, getting less achievement points have far less significant consequences when compared to not eating or not breathing. Hence (my original point) the comparison of “Getting achievement points in GW2” to "Breathing is optional is quite silly.

Astralporing.1957:

Why? I don’t see any difference there. There are no real consequences for not playing the game after all.

If you don’t play GW2, you’re not going to experience the Sanctum. You’re not going to see it, you’re not going to play its minigames, you’re not going to explore it, etc. as opposed to actually playing it.

If you don’t get 15 achievement points, absolutely nothing happens except for delaying your achievement reward slightly, compared to actually getting it.

That’s the difference.

Ursan.7846:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Insignificant to them is not insignificant to others. They don’t get to choose what myself or others do or do not find significant. We don’t malign their way of enjoying the game, they should not malign ours.

I’m not maligning your way of enjoying the game. Do I make fun of people for OCD or completionist tendencies in my posts?

Telling someone something they think is significant that it is not, you are maligning how they choose to play the game.

Ursan.7846:

Simply pointing out that objectively, getting less achievement points have far less significant consequences when compared to not eating or not breathing. Hence (my original point) the comparison of “Getting achievement points in GW2” to "Breathing is optional is quite silly.

Astralporing.1957:

Why? I don’t see any difference there. There are no real consequences for not playing the game after all.

If you don’t play GW2, you’re not going to experience the Sanctum. You’re not going to see it, you’re not going to play its minigames, you’re not going to explore it, etc. as opposed to actually playing it.

If you don’t get 15 achievement points, absolutely nothing happens except for delaying your achievement reward slightly, compared to actually getting it.

That’s the difference.

Some of us are not doing it for the achievement points or the rewards, you know.

Ursan.7846:

Simply pointing out that objectively, getting less achievement points have far less significant consequences when compared to not eating or not breathing. Hence (my original point) the comparison of “Getting achievement points in GW2” to "Breathing is optional is quite silly.

Nobody said anything about breathing being optional, so please don’t strawman. Now, everything above the basic needs is a luxury, and optional. Consequences of not getting “optional content” (like warm weather, electricity or basic education) in real life are lowering your quality of life. Consequences of being unable to get achievement points due to a bad design decision lowers your “quality of life” in the game.

“It’s optional” is not an argument. It still makes the game less fun.

After all, if PvP/WvW itself was completely broken, an argument that “it’s optional” would not satisfy anyone.

Astralporing.1957:

Ursan.7846:

Simply pointing out that objectively, getting less achievement points have far less significant consequences when compared to not eating or not breathing. Hence (my original point) the comparison of “Getting achievement points in GW2” to "Breathing is optional is quite silly.

Nobody said anything about breathing being optional, so please don’t strawman. Now, everything above the basic needs is a luxury, and optional. Consequences of not getting “optional content” (like warm weather, electricity or basic education) in real life are lowering your quality of life. Consequences of being unable to get achievement points due to a bad design decision lowers your “quality of life” in the game.

“It’s optional” is not an argument. It still makes the game less fun.

I would like to sign this.
Thank you.

Astralporing.1957:

Nobody said anything about breathing being optional, so please don’t strawman.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

As the great Sheldon Cooper said: “We have to take in nourishment, expel waste and breathe in enough oxygen to keep our cells from dying. Everything else is purely optional”

Breathing wasn’t the proper analogy, since Sheldon Cooper does include it. Showering being optional is most likely the proper analogy and also the one I used originally. My apologies.

EDIT: Astralporing, let me attempt another perspective. First, we must all understand that everyone has different things they enjoy, and that our opinions doesn’t and cannot reflect the tastes of the entire population. Second, it must be understood that sometimes, things people like can be mutually exclusive to different groups (i.e. people who liked shattered wings flapping, people who disliked it. PvE achievements in PvP areas, people who dislike it.)

So in cases like these, in order to appease both sides, Anet needs to throw one side a bone, but they have to do so in a manner that will least impact the other. Achievement points are a perfect way to do this, because it it gives players a non-functional reward they can work towards, while for those whose dislike of the idea outweights their completionist tendencies, that unsatisfaction is buffered by the fact that objectively, you’re not really losing anything game-related since the meta is achieved through partial completion.

With that in mind, however, I would like to posit you a question. If, say, the specific WvW-related Living Story achievements went under the WvW tab, would you be okay with it? Because if so, I’d like to offer this up as a potential solution.

Here’s some things to avoid when trying to do OS:

1. Don’t go in the first few days after new content is released. It will be camped.
2. Don’t go in on a weekend. Its generally the busiest.
3. Don’t go in mid afternoon/early evening. Thats generally when the chest resets for people.
4. Don’t go inside waving and bowing to everyone you see. You will get killed (I kill these people more than people who do nothing).

Here’s some points on how to do OS:

1. Early morning or late night are perfect times. I can do the puzzle and not run into a single person.
2. Don’t go in by yourself. Gankers will question jumping groups.
3. USE THE STEALTH. You can make it to dark room (and even the arena if you don’t need a torch) stealthed. There are 2 fountains before the well, and 1 past the arena. Dark room/arena should be your only difficulty ever.
4. If you are getting killed, take a breathe, and try again in an hour. If gankers don’t get kills they will leave. OS is very boring when there’s no one in it.
5. Hang around EB for a while before you go in. You might have a mesmer in there offering ports.

OS is doable for anyone, you just have to know the flow.

Ursan.7846:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

That’s true, but if you think about it, playing the game is optional entirely.

I’m not sure if you really read my post or not, but the consequences of not playing the game is far more significant than the consequences of not getting 15 achievement points. Again, it’s a silly comparison.

I have read your post and I’m happy to take up your example from it.
You have said that a lot of things in life are optional but there are some things that are less optional than others and you’ve given the example of showering. And I agree with you on that. But from that perspective playing a video game seems pretty optional to me.
You’re trying to force a perspective on me where playing GW2 is essentially as important as showering, which would make getting an achievment seem pretty irrelevant. But I refuse to take that stance. I’m personally not seeing that much of a difference in relevance (or significance, to use your term) to my life between playing the entire game and getting a single achievment.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

I have read your post and I’m happy to take up your example from it.
You have said that a lot of things in life are optional but there are some things that are less optional than others and you’ve given the example of showering. And I agree with you on that. But from that perspective playing a video game seems pretty optional to me.
You’re trying to force a perspective on me where playing GW2 is essentially as important as showering, which would make getting an achievment seem pretty irrelevant. But I refuse to take that stance. I’m personally not seeing that much of a difference in relevance (or significance, to use your term) to my life between playing the entire game and getting a single achievment.

Please point out where I attempted to equate the significance of not taking showers to not playing GW2. I don’t do that. That is a silly comparison.

My whole original point is that there are things like life that are more “optional” than others. Which is why quoting Sheldon Cooper and using the counterargument “But Penny, everything is optional” is a silly one.

The better counterargument is what Astralpong has been doing: To demonstrate that what other users see as “optional” with little consequences actually has serious consequences to the user. This is a much more subjective argument and really ends the discussion since that is based on his opinion and there isn’t much I can do to disprove it (Unlike the previous argument)

koopatroopa.5360:

Here’s some things to avoid when trying to do OS:

1. Don’t go in the first few days after new content is released. It will be camped.
2. Don’t go in on a weekend. Its generally the busiest.
3. Don’t go in mid afternoon/early evening. Thats generally when the chest resets for people.
4. Don’t go inside waving and bowing to everyone you see. You will get killed (I kill these people more than people who do nothing).

Here’s some points on how to do OS:

1. Early morning or late night are perfect times. I can do the puzzle and not run into a single person.
2. Don’t go in by yourself. Gankers will question jumping groups.
3. USE THE STEALTH. You can make it to dark room (and even the arena if you don’t need a torch) stealthed. There are 2 fountains before the well, and 1 past the arena. Dark room/arena should be your only difficulty ever.
4. If you are getting killed, take a breathe, and try again in an hour. If gankers don’t get kills they will leave. OS is very boring when there’s no one in it.
5. Hang around EB for a while before you go in. You might have a mesmer in there offering ports.

OS is doable for anyone, you just have to know the flow.

All good ideas, but none of them sound like fun. I will get really annoyod when I finally get to the end and some moron fears/knock me off. It will be my personal mission then to find this person in real life

Not again…I did it twice last week and it just felt like a panic race against getting caught and beaten. Ugh, the stress.

I’m just trying to imagine what they were talking about before releasing new event:
“Ha-ha, did you saw all those weaning people that was killed dozen times on WvW when they were trying to get chest? That was sooo funny! Let’s do it again!”

Ursan.7846:

Please point out where I attempted to equate the significance of not taking showers to not playing GW2. I don’t do that. That is a silly comparison.

Okay, here you go:

Ursan.7846:

When people say “it’s optional,” they usually mean that the consequences of NOT doing it is minimal. For example, taking a shower is purely optional, yes, but the consequences of not doing so is quite significant. [….]

Ursan.7846:

[…] the consequences of not playing the game is far more significant than the consequences of not getting 15 achievement points.

If that is not a comparison, then please explain to me in what other way not playing the game is “far more significant” than not getting 15 achievment points?

Ursan.7846:

With that in mind, however, I would like to posit you a question. If, say, the specific WvW-related Living Story achievements went under the WvW tab, would you be okay with it? Because if so, I’d like to offer this up as a potential solution.

If it was in a separate WvW tab, and not tied to any mostly PvE-based metaachievement, then yes, definitely. WvW players have as much right to get their own achievements as PvE players, after all. What i strongly argue against is mixing those two modes of play.

There have always been two types of PvP players.

Those that enjoy the competition…being able to pit your skills and knowledge against another person and see who is better.

Those that get their jollies by ruining other people’s fun.

ArenaNet obviously feels that the latter is a legitimate play style that should be supported and promoted by their game design. It’s generally the people who aren’t good enough at the game to beat anyone in a fair fight, so they sit in a corner and giggle all night while frustrating someone else to the point that they quit the game. Super fun!!!

These are the same people who would get beat up at the neighborhood softball game for being jerks… but the anonymity of the internet provides them with the perfect outlet.

Just like forcing PvE players to explore all the WvW zones so that jerks can get some easy kills. Personally, I think it’s bullkitten, but there it is. The gankers and poor sports get their game, too…at our expense.

/shrug

Soo… Here I am looking through this thread about PvE kittens (deliberate) being scared of the PvP zone… N than complain that one of their wonderful achievements for the event is in there. So please tell me when will I be able to get the meta reward stuff without doing the mind boggling dumb PvE content? I wanted the Sclerite backpack for PvP I ended up being forced into killing brain dead things in PvE.

I wanted the Dragon Helmet for sPvP n I was once again forced into PvE. Wanted the Holographic Wings for sPvP had to do PvE.

So here’s my counter arguement why are PvP players forced into PvE when personally I hate it with a passion, there’s no joy or fun in fighting n killing things without a brain. Where’s the challenge in that? Tactics you say? Well shame it’s the same tactics over n over n over again afterwards mobs never change they’re not humans.

So tell me when can I expect to have a way to complete the meta achievements through PvP if all I want is the skin of it? Until the day I do you PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum. ^^

New life Goal: Kill PvE’rs in Obsidian Sanctum enough so they Rage Quit.

Elshagan.6342:

Soo… Here I am looking through this thread about PvE kittens (deliberate) being scared of the PvP zone… N than complain that one of their wonderful achievements for the event is in there. So please tell me when will I be able to get the meta reward stuff without doing the mind boggling dumb PvE content? I wanted the Sclerite backpack for PvP I ended up being forced into killing brain dead things in PvE.

I wanted the Dragon Helmet for sPvP n I was once again forced into PvE. Wanted the Holographic Wings for sPvP had to do PvE.

So here’s my counter arguement why are PvP players forced into PvE when personally I hate it with a passion, there’s no joy or fun in fighting n killing things without a brain. Where’s the challenge in that? Tactics you say? Well shame it’s the same tactics over n over n over again afterwards mobs never change they’re not humans.

So tell me when can I expect to have a way to complete the meta achievements through PvP if all I want is the skin of it? Until the day I do you PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum. ^^

New life Goal: Kill PvE’rs in Obsidian Sanctum enough so they Rage Quit.

Your “counter-argument” is not a counter argument but an additional point of criticism and i think that most PvE players would agree with you on it.

Elshagan.6342:

Soo… Here I am looking through this thread about PvE kittens (deliberate) being scared of the PvP zone… N than complain that one of their wonderful achievements for the event is in there. So please tell me when will I be able to get the meta reward stuff without doing the mind boggling dumb PvE content? I wanted the Sclerite backpack for PvP I ended up being forced into killing brain dead things in PvE.

I wanted the Dragon Helmet for sPvP n I was once again forced into PvE. Wanted the Holographic Wings for sPvP had to do PvE.

So here’s my counter arguement why are PvP players forced into PvE when personally I hate it with a passion, there’s no joy or fun in fighting n killing things without a brain. Where’s the challenge in that? Tactics you say? Well shame it’s the same tactics over n over n over again afterwards mobs never change they’re not humans.

So tell me when can I expect to have a way to complete the meta achievements through PvP if all I want is the skin of it? Until the day I do you PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum. ^^

New life Goal: Kill PvE’rs in Obsidian Sanctum enough so they Rage Quit.

I don’t get it. First you say about challenges of killing smart opponent and say that there is no fun in killing dumb mobs. But than you say that you enjoy killing dumb players, that never played PVP, don’t know any tactics and mostly even more easy to kill than mobs.
So I see two options:
1) You’re lying about boring PVE content, you just can’t do it, that’s why you prefer to kill defenseless players.
2) You just looking for excuses for enjoying of ruining game for same defenseless players.

Dan.5416:

I don’t get it. First you say about challenges of killing smart opponent and say that there is no fun in killing dumb mobs. But than you say that you enjoy killing dumb players, that never played PVP, don’t know any tactics and mostly even more easy to kill than mobs.
So I see two options:
1) You’re lying about boring PVE content, you just can’t do it, that’s why you prefer to kill defenseless players.
2) You just looking for excuses for enjoying of ruining game for same defenseless players.

Hit the nail on the head there, Dan. I do so love the excuses bad PvPers make for trying to legitimize their behaviour.

Yay more badge: from PvE player and from WvW player who think PvE player never PvP

Dan.5416:

Elshagan.6342:

Soo… Here I am looking through this thread about PvE kittens (deliberate) being scared of the PvP zone… N than complain that one of their wonderful achievements for the event is in there. So please tell me when will I be able to get the meta reward stuff without doing the mind boggling dumb PvE content? I wanted the Sclerite backpack for PvP I ended up being forced into killing brain dead things in PvE.

I wanted the Dragon Helmet for sPvP n I was once again forced into PvE. Wanted the Holographic Wings for sPvP had to do PvE.

So here’s my counter arguement why are PvP players forced into PvE when personally I hate it with a passion, there’s no joy or fun in fighting n killing things without a brain. Where’s the challenge in that? Tactics you say? Well shame it’s the same tactics over n over n over again afterwards mobs never change they’re not humans.

So tell me when can I expect to have a way to complete the meta achievements through PvP if all I want is the skin of it? Until the day I do you PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum. ^^

New life Goal: Kill PvE’rs in Obsidian Sanctum enough so they Rage Quit.

I don’t get it. First you say about challenges of killing smart opponent and say that there is no fun in killing dumb mobs. But than you say that you enjoy killing dumb players, that never played PVP, don’t know any tactics and mostly even more easy to kill than mobs.
So I see two options:
1) You’re lying about boring PVE content, you just can’t do it, that’s why you prefer to kill defenseless players.
2) You just looking for excuses for enjoying of ruining game for same defenseless players.

1: I never said I enjoy killing DUMB PvE players. I said I’ll enjoy killing PvE players until the day I can get the rewards through PvP besides normally if you show no sign of fighting back I’ll leave you be.

2: Even a monkey could do the PvE content in GW2… Sw:ToR had more challenging PvE content that GW2 got n there I could even tank lol. On the other hand no matter what game it’s always the same tactic n method each n every time to complete a boss. Now if each boss had 10 different combat scenarios that are randomized than it would be interesting. Since each time would require different tactics, n as proof at how boring it is people are even speed running CoF for money. I’d hardly call it hard at that point.

3: N you’re looking for an excuse to prevent PvP’rs from getting the event rewards. All I want is to be able to complete it through what I enjoy PvP without having to be forced into PvE just like PvE players don’t wanna be forced into PvP.

4: Lets make more lists cause lists are fun or just continue the qoute train.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Hit the nail on the head there, Dan. I do so love the excuses bad PvPers make for trying to legitimize their behaviour.

I love the excuses PvE’rs make to try n legitimize their behaviour. You don’t wanna PvP? Than fine don’t get the achievement but don’t complain about it.

Elshagan.6342:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Hit the nail on the head there, Dan. I do so love the excuses bad PvPers make for trying to legitimize their behaviour.

I love the excuses PvE’rs make to try n legitimize their behaviour. You don’t wanna PvP? Than fine don’t get the achievement but don’t complain about it.

The point is, that puzzle is not proper PvP. People who’re genuinley interested in PvP don’t go there. When it’s not filled with incentives to lure defenseless PvE players in, it’s usually empty enough to hear a pin drop. It’s just a jumping puzzle that has PvP enabled which is causing players who aren’t good enough to win PvP against regulars to offload their frustration on PvE players.

Elshagan.6342:

So tell me when can I expect to have a way to complete the meta achievements through PvP if all I want is the skin of it? Until the day I do you PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum. ^^

Ah yes. Since you can’t have it, instead of asking about ways it might be available throughout PvP avenues as well, you’d rather deny it to others. Perfectly logical.

I guess for you noone having good stuff is a preferable solution to everyone having it.
I hope that in future Anet will do everything possible to remove such kind of players from this game.

Elshagan.6342:

I never said I enjoy killing DUMB PvE players. I said I’ll enjoy killing PvE players until the day I can get the rewards through PvP besides normally if you show no sign of fighting back I’ll leave you be.

PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum.

“Every single” includes dumb, that’s what I see.
Anyway, I saw such a noble PVP guys (always a group of them, never saw single player that attacs someone). They just kill you 10 times while you try run and hide from them and than just leave you, cause more funny targets appear near.
But as you go further you met new group of noble PVP guys, and it goes round and round.
So let’s be honest – it’s excuses.

Elshagan.6342:

I love the excuses PvE’rs make to try n legitimize their behaviour. You don’t wanna PvP? Than fine don’t get the achievement but don’t complain about it.

You now that Bazaar is going to be Pve Right

Farzo.8410:

Gotejjeken.1267:

How does dulfy get access to this before it comes out?

Since she’s done much for the community and ArenaNet acknowledge her, she’s most likely invited to a test server to try it out.

Since we are sprinting through content with a short expiration date, we need detailed guides with videos and screenshots to have a prayer of completing it. Being able to discover things yourself at a slower pace does not fit with the new philosophy.

Elshagan.6342:

Until the day I do you PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum. ^^

New life Goal: Kill PvE’rs in Obsidian Sanctum enough so they Rage Quit.

Please oh please tell me you are on JQ or SoR?

Because I will take great pleasure in putting much boot up your kitten when we help our friends and guildies through OS.

Doing something on purpose with no reason other than to make players want to quit? You and people like you are what is wrong with this community

Elshagan.6342:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Hit the nail on the head there, Dan. I do so love the excuses bad PvPers make for trying to legitimize their behaviour.

I love the excuses PvE’rs make to try n legitimize their behaviour. You don’t wanna PvP? Than fine don’t get the achievement but don’t complain about it.

My behaviour of commenting that this kite should not be placed in Obsidian Sanctum? My behaviour of commenting that that fact will be abused by by many PvP players just looking for ‘easy kills’? My behaviour of commenting that this will only drive PvE players that would potentially enjoy WvW away from ever wanting to enter it again?

I’m sorry. I didn’t realize that wanting a good community was complaining or making excuses. Oh. Right. It isn’t.

Sorry, Elshagan, but it seems you’re one of those types that will be abusing this. And that’s a bloody shame.

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Elshagan.6342:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Hit the nail on the head there, Dan. I do so love the excuses bad PvPers make for trying to legitimize their behaviour.

I love the excuses PvE’rs make to try n legitimize their behaviour. You don’t wanna PvP? Than fine don’t get the achievement but don’t complain about it.

The point is, that puzzle is not proper PvP. People who’re genuinley interested in PvP don’t go there. When it’s not filled with incentives to lure defenseless PvE players in, it’s usually empty enough to hear a pin drop. It’s just a jumping puzzle that has PvP enabled which is causing players who aren’t good enough to win PvP against regulars to offload their frustration on PvE players.

The only relation this puzzle has to wvw is the siege rewards from the chest. As far as I can tell, it is just a legitimized griefing area.

Katz.5143:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Elshagan.6342:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Hit the nail on the head there, Dan. I do so love the excuses bad PvPers make for trying to legitimize their behaviour.

I love the excuses PvE’rs make to try n legitimize their behaviour. You don’t wanna PvP? Than fine don’t get the achievement but don’t complain about it.

The point is, that puzzle is not proper PvP. People who’re genuinley interested in PvP don’t go there. When it’s not filled with incentives to lure defenseless PvE players in, it’s usually empty enough to hear a pin drop. It’s just a jumping puzzle that has PvP enabled which is causing players who aren’t good enough to win PvP against regulars to offload their frustration on PvE players.

The only relation this puzzle has to wvw is the siege rewards from the chest. As far as I can tell, it is just a legitimized griefing area.

^This I only go there for the siege. Free siege equipment.

N Fiiine than remove it from the Jumping puzzle n put the achievement inside of Stone Mist Castle. Now everyone’s happy.

Honestly guys, this again? I normally don’t post on forums I rather read but there are 10’s of threads about this same topic, why make a new one every single time for the same subject. Complaining or giving your oppinion in a destructive manner about the achievements in Obsidium Sanctum.

I for one, do not PvP in Obsidian, because I am there just for the jumping and guess what, I got it in one go on each and every one of my characters a couple of days ago during primetime. So either I was really lucky or I have charisma that they leave me alone!

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content. So why not see some leisure towards them and at least let them have a cache or achievement in their ‘world’ so to say. If you want the achievement so bad, ask for help and go with a 10 or more odd people. You will defo survive until the end.

MinorDetail.9204:

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content. So why not see some leisure towards them and at least let them have a cache or achievement in their ‘world’ so to say. If you want the achievement so bad, ask for help and go with a 10 or more odd people. You will defo survive until the end.

afaik we do not try to harras or grieve PvP players that come to join PvE?

MinorDetail.9204:

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content.

The difference being the PvE’ers don’t try and kill him when he does

This is how I feel right now :P
So, yeah.

aspirine.6852:

MinorDetail.9204:

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content. So why not see some leisure towards them and at least let them have a cache or achievement in their ‘world’ so to say. If you want the achievement so bad, ask for help and go with a 10 or more odd people. You will defo survive until the end.

afaik we do not try to harras or grieve PvP players that come to join PvE?

Obsidium Sanctum is a PvP Jumping Puzzle, and people who are into PvP will kill-on-sight if they want to kill someone. They cannot see from their screen behind yours if you are an experienced PvP’er or not. If A-net intended for Obsidium Sanctum to be a normal jumping puzzle they wouldn’t have put it in the WvW area to begin with.

Yet people saying it is impossible, if you really want the achievement that badly you will get it no matter what. But with everything I have seen from the forums or from in-game PvE’ers want everything handed on a platter with minimal activities. I.E: Unfriendly Skies achievement, easily doable yet people flamed about it 24/7.

So my advice to everyone who is against the whole achievement inside Obsidium Sanctum, and is getting killed alot. Get some friends out, do it together. The moment a griefer/ganker sees 10 people coming at him he will think twice before attacking.

Dedlaw.9130:

MinorDetail.9204:

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content.

The difference being the PvE’ers don’t try and kill him when he does

In one of his messages he did say he would leave them alone. But rather after some arguments on the forums he made it his new goal. I do PvP within Obsidium Sanctum too, but only when threatened or attacked first. But once I do have to attack, anyone in sight at that point in time is dead. It’s the way it works in WvW or PvP, you have to look out for yourself.

And if PvE’ers don’t fight back, ofcourse they don’t stand a chance. See the story below, everyone within Obsidium Sanctum, 1v1 as equal chances of winning. So mostly ‘griefing’ is out of the picture already, unless the guys is camping you on purpose, and only you.

Oh and, I actually got killed once by a new player to WvW cause he thought I was gonna attack him. So don’t go and say this is all griefers, sometimes it might even be new people defending themselves since they can’t see or hear what your intentions are. (I got killed by being pushed off a rock xD lol never forget that epic moment)

What is the definition of “achievement”? If the achievement is to do a thing and you can’t achieve that, then why should you be entitled to the credit? If you can’t do it, you can’t do it. There are some things in life people can and can’t do. Think of this one as a challenge of patience. The other players sitting there ganking are part of this challenge. Accept it.

They didn’t make the last one mandatory for any rewards, so I doubt this one will be mandatory. Skip it if you don’t like it.

Xenon.4537:

What is the definition of “achievement”? If the achievement is to do a thing and you can’t achieve that, then why should you be entitled to the credit? If you can’t do it, you can’t do it. There are some things in life people can and can’t do. Think of this one as a challenge of patience. The other players sitting there ganking are part of this challenge. Accept it.

They didn’t make the last one mandatory for any rewards, so I doubt this one will be mandatory. Skip it if you don’t like it.

^
Well said!

MinorDetail.9204:

Everyone within Obsidium Sanctum, 1v1 as equal chances of winning. So mostly ‘griefing’ is out of the picture already, unless the guys is camping you on purpose, and only you.

There are plenty of choke points where even 1v1 would be terribly unfair. I got attacked by a ranger standing on top of the rocks of the chandelier room (just after the dark room). I was pretty much dead by the time I was halfway towards his position. I ducked for cover under the entrance, and then the rest of his guild party swooped in to finish me off (hammer warrior, elementalist and necromancer). At half health versus 4 people, it was hardly a fair fight.

I enjoy WvW, and do it from time to time, either in guild groups, in zergs or roaming solo. But I’d never roam around the JP to kill people. There will always be griefers around looking for easy kills. There’s no need denying that.

Just for the record, I’m not against the achievement. It takes some organization to do, but so do dungeons. So just gather a (large) group, or risk being ganked.

MinorDetail.9204:

Dedlaw.9130:

MinorDetail.9204:

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content.

The difference being the PvE’ers don’t try and kill him when he does

In one of his messages he did say he would leave them alone. But rather after some arguments on the forums he made it his new goal. I do PvP within Obsidium Sanctum too, but only when threatened or attacked first. But once I do have to attack, anyone in sight at that point in time is dead. It’s the way it works in WvW or PvP, you have to look out for yourself.

And if PvE’ers don’t fight back, ofcourse they don’t stand a chance. See the story below, everyone within Obsidium Sanctum, 1v1 as equal chances of winning. So mostly ‘griefing’ is out of the picture already, unless the guys is camping you on purpose, and only you.

Oh and, I actually got killed once by a new player to WvW cause he thought I was gonna attack him. So don’t go and say this is all griefers, sometimes it might even be new people defending themselves since they can’t see or hear what your intentions are. (I got killed by being pushed off a rock xD lol never forget that epic moment)

Yes, in a later message he said he would not attack unless attacked first, bu in his initial post he made it perfectly clear he what his intentions were -

Until the day I do you PvE’rs can just keep quiet n endure the fact that I’ll enjoy killing every single one of you as you struggle in Obsidian Sanctum. ^^

New life Goal: Kill PvE’rs in Obsidian Sanctum enough so they Rage Quit.

So honestly I don’t care what his subsequent claims are. He made it clear he enjoys making others miserable so I see no reason to even try and see it from his point of view.

As for PvPing inside OS, I have no issue with it. I’ve done it myself, helping friends/guildies through. If players let us be, we let them be. More often than not we would have to push through campers to get it done. If you are forced into it, so be it. It’s WvW after all.

My problem is with people like him that do it purely out of spitefulness and taking pleasure out of other people’s suffering. I do not and never will condone that.

Dedlaw.9130:

My problem is with people like him that do it purely out of spitefulness and taking pleasure out of other people’s suffering. I do not and never will condone that.

Isn’t that what PvP is essentially about anyways? Even in sPvP or WvW, people like to kill off people. And even if Elshagan would do it out of spite, there are 10’s of others within the OS that would eat him raw for breakfast. Just don’t expect to do it solo if you have anyone in there like Elshagan.

NoobOnSteroid.7192:

MinorDetail.9204:

Everyone within Obsidium Sanctum, 1v1 as equal chances of winning. So mostly ‘griefing’ is out of the picture already, unless the guys is camping you on purpose, and only you.

There are plenty of choke points where even 1v1 would be terribly unfair. I got attacked by a ranger standing on top of the rocks of the chandelier room (just after the dark room). I was pretty much dead by the time I was halfway towards his position. I ducked for cover under the entrance, and then the rest of his guild party swooped in to finish me off (hammer warrior, elementalist and necromancer). At half health versus 4 people, it was hardly a fair fight.

I enjoy WvW, and do it from time to time, either in guild groups, in zergs or roaming solo. But I’d never roam around the JP to kill people. There will always be griefers around looking for easy kills. There’s no need denying that.

Just for the record, I’m not against the achievement. It takes some organization to do, but so do dungeons. So just gather a (large) group, or risk being ganked.

Your reply makes no sense at all, the ranger I could understand but the 4v1 not being a fair fight. It’s a open PvP map, it could have been different where 4v1 would be on your side, would you still say ‘oh we shouldn’t do this, it’s an unfair fight.’ I rather think you laugh your butt off behind your screen saying ‘oh if he had only just ran away’.