Guild Wars 2

His voice as annoying. His character is shallow and uninspiring. He steals the glory from who should really be the hero of Tyria: the player.

Just did the personal story step where you go up against the mesmer near fort trinity… did Trahearne really have to go on about how he is the real target and the only reason the player character got attacked was to get at him? This would have been a good opportunity to show that even though Trahearne is the marshal your character is the driving force behind the pact, instead he makes it all about himself.

I have been thinking about this and came to the conclusion that making Trahearne be the marshal isn’t an issue, it’s how he’s portraited that bugs me. Take the mass effect series in comparison, commander Shepard gets to take orders from Anderson and Hackett who both outrank him, yet the game still feels like Shepards story and makes clear how important he is. (let’s ignore the awful ending since that’s not a debate I want to start here)

Need I say more?

Kain Francois.4328:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU9H7zaD6zs

Need I say more?

I think this proved the point very well.

Tybalt >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trahearne, nuff’ said.

Kain Francois.4328:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU9H7zaD6zs

Need I say more?

Checkmate!

Detharos.3157:

Tybalt >>>>>>>>>>>>> Trahearne, nuff’ said.

This too. Tybalt was developing as a character quite nicely. And then they slapped us across the face with Saladhead.

Making matters even worse, the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan teases us about Tybalt being under Zhaitan’s wing (and Sieran, but that is an inconsistency?)

I don’t have that much beef with how Trahearne came into power or became the center of attention. I just don’t agree with this hatred :P sorry.
But I do find it hard to believe most of what he does (story lines should be more believable than this). It seems he hasn’t even finished one life-long study that he has another area of previously-unknown-attention that is about to come to fruition. He literally has like 5 things that would require years of intensive study that all happen within the last days of the story.
Actually, if every idea the Pact has every had didn’t come from him, he might be less of an attention-steeling nobody :P

Trahearne is a textbook example of a writer having a “pet” NPC and that NPC getting way too much attention at expense of main character(s) of story. It isn’t that he is player character’s superior, it is that player character is forced into role of Trahearne’s yes-man lackey, a roadie- type forced to devote his/her life into making someone else (Trahearne) look good. No matter what kind of character you play, from a curious Sylvari to a fierce Charr, your dialogue with Trahearne ends up practically at level of “Yes, Marshal Trahearne. Right away, Marshal Trahearne. Good choice, Marshal Trahearne. I admire your courage, Marshal Trahearne”.
Trahearne would have worked nicely as background figure. However, as writing is now, GW 2 does indeed have a personal story. Trahearne’s personal story. Or perhaps player character’s story, as in “My Life As Lackey – First to (one of three orders), then to Marshal Trahearne” or “(player character’s name) – How I learned to stop thinking and to obey Marshal Trahearne”.

I don’t mind Trahearen’s role in the story (I still by far and away do the heavy lifting) but his voice acting could use some serious work.

I’m sorry, but I don’t really understand this. Granted, the only race I’ve played to 80 is Sylvari, so I obviously have a bit of a soft spot for them in general, but I really like Trahearne. I understand if people are upset about his AI in partcular missions or something, but the character himself is awesome. I love that his purpose is to essentially cleanse Orr, and honestly I really like whoever did his voice acting. I mean, he’s been alive for 25 years, studying Orr the entire time (or most of it, at least). His story makes sense to me, I guess. Sorry I don’t mean to de-rail the thread, but I don’t want Anet to think that everyone dislikes him lol I mean, people are arguing that in the storyline, he is given to much attention and eclipses the player, but that in combat he does’t do enough damage and the player has to do it all. So in combat/gameplay, people want Trahearne to do it all, but then the player gets the credit in the actual story? I’m simplifying the complaints a bit, but really. Come on

My reaction to realizing that this is in fact Trahearne’s personal story, and not my own.

Antisceptic.9174:

His voice as annoying. His character is shallow and uninspiring. He steals the glory from who should really be the hero of Tyria: the player.

Kain Francois.4328:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU9H7zaD6zs

I completely agree i hate trahearne hes so depressing to listen to and he looks evil and that hes going to stab you in the back the second to turn around he should be a villan not the leader of Destinys Edge please let use kill him i think 90% of player hate him and want him dead

It’s not just the T-dawg that’s annoying. Pretty much ever single character you meet is annoying, because the GW2 writers have somehow managed to field the largest collection of pansy goody-two-shoe self-righteous d-bags ever in the history of fantasy story-telling.

I suspect, if I was five years old, and still somehow had a semblance of innocence, I might find the characters and story endearing. I further suspect that such people make up an incredibly small percent of the active player-base of this game.

I do not know what was going through the minds of the writing team, but they are-by far-the weakest link in this great game.

revial.2938:

It’s not just the T-dawg that’s annoying. Pretty much ever single character you meet is annoying, because the GW2 writers have somehow managed to field the largest collection of pansy goody-two-shoe self-righteous d-bags ever in the history of fantasy story-telling.

I suspect, if I was five years old, and still somehow had a semblance of innocence, I might find the characters and story endearing. I further suspect that such people make up an incredibly small percent of the active player-base of this game.

I do not know what was going through the minds of the writing team, but they are-by far-the weakest link in this great game.

Every game in recent years have as weakest link the story telling team. In fact every game released in 2012 had a pretty bad story to be completely honest.

Short. We hate Trahearne. He ruined Personal Story. He should’ve died at the Claw Island.

Seeing as my first character was Sylvari and Trahearne played a big part in my early plot, I actually found him to be my favorite character in GW2. I really like him, his original “un-obtainable Wyld hunt” turning into one that may just be within grasp and all that. (The Trahearne groupy in the Mallyk quest was awesome as well.) So I don’t hate him in the least.

It makes sense he was called on to help the pact as he spent more face time with Orrians then other Sylvari and knew the most about them- as well as surviving an encounter with Zaitan and being the eldest Sylvari currently alive.

Also, I want to make love to his voice. Seriously- As a female I find his voice sexy as hell.

All joking aside, his voice isn’t THAT bad. It’s the fact he fails to articulate emotion. Hence, he sounds “wooden”.

Also, his personality. He pretends to be modest, but he actually comes off as the most egotistical character of all!

After going through the Pale Tree’s vision, I have to wonder if it’s less her vision of what will actually happen, and more that she’s just playing favorites. “You get to lead a grand army, Trahearne! You get to cleanse Orr, Trahearne! Here’s an awesomesauce greatsword even though your’e a necromancer, Trahearne! …. Oh, your lackey’s still here? Meh, he can go get eaten by the dragon, it’s not like he’s the main character of the story, or anything.” Really though, what the hell? I understand that it’s better for the lore to have an NPC be the remembered hero, but no recognition? No praise for being the guy that does almost -all- of the work? No, it’s okay, I get it. I’m supposed to just be grateful for being in the Great Trahearne’s presence.

Gimme a break.

I agree. I just recently resumed my personal story and my god it’s bad. It’s like it isn’t MY story anymore…it’s all about him and him being a great leader. My character barely gets any lines anymore… + his voice acting is terrible. Why did you have to replace awesome Forgal with this generic boring character? Anet, if you love your players you will remove Trahearne from the game entirely and never mention his existence again.

Every time I see him in a cutscene I feel like punching a hole through my screen

Btw, this guy would be awesome instead of Trahearne!

This reminds me of way back in GW1 when everyone I knew hated Ruric, who really enjoyed running off to his death when the objective is to keep him alive.

That fact that your mentor character of your order dies to save a handful of soldiers that don’t make it the boat most of the time to begin with along with the fact that trahearne has the ability to summon five flesh golems at once makes it so your mentor character’s sacrifice was unimportant and useless. Trahearne should’ve been the one to stay behind. Trahearne could’ve summoned multiple flesh golems to hold back the undead. But he didn’t, and we are left with a worthless character with no military experience that replaces great characters like seiren and tybalt.

Trahearne then goes on to steal the glory of every single thing your character is responsible for while simultaneously being incredibly useless in combat. Let’s not forget that many NPC’s die during other personal story quests, with those deaths being blamed on you, not the poor choices that “marshal” trahearne has made. These character deaths make it impossible to have any sympathy for the characters dying, too, as after the death of your mentor character(s) at claw island, the deaths of the other npcs become expected and shallow and are just being used to attempt to pull an emotional response from the player, which it fails horribly at.

Essentially, trahearne is a mary sue of the highest caliber; he steals the credit of YOUR accomplishments, is revered as perfect and incredible by many NPC’s (even with characters of essentially unknown races, like the largos that somehow OWES TRAHEARNE for something), and despite having no military or combat experience against the denizens of orr is placed in charge of an organization and a base that he took the credit of naming and forming.

Let’s not forget the fact that with the dream, any slyvari could have access to trahearnes knowledge if trahearne were to die. Nothing of value could’ve been lost from trahearne dying at fort trinity, except of course the token mary sue character that arenanet has created to rip your own personal storyline from you.

Also let’s not forget how he takes the credit for the name “Fort Trinity” that your character chose, not mentioning that you named it.

Okay, here’s my proposal:

Since there’s no way they can undo what has already been done, ANet needs to work with what they have. So what do you do when the personal story is over, and no one is satisfied? Release expansion content! The way I see it, Trahearne is in the perfect position to be a super villain. He’s disliked by most of the player base, and for good reason. He’s in a position of power. He’s well liked by the npcs. He’s got the Disney villain thing going on with his voice. He’s got the undying trust of everyone. He’s shuffled your character underfoot, and has taken your credit and respect.

If Trahearne was a villain, it would mean you would have a reason to be “the hero” again. It wouldn’t even need to start all at once. Your character could notice slow changes in Trahearne’s character – the Pale Tree could show concern. There could be a whole campaign against your character by Trahearne’s loyals when you refuse to be his yes-man, and old friends could reappear out of the woodwork to offer their support. Hell, for all I care, your mentor could miraculously still be alive. The orders could, at some point, gain independence again, while the Pact could remain Trahearne’s army. Destiny’s Edge could be your best friend.

Even if this isn’t a route ANet would be willing to take (which I think would be a waste of a good super-villian archetype), something has to be done with Trahearne. It doesn’t really matter if he turns into a baddy or just takes a back seat and lets you have your adventure. The big problem is that the bonds and choices you’ve made are pointless, and you’re overshadowed by a twig with a title and not much else. I would really like to see the story go on with Trahearne included in some manner because it would be incredibly obnoxious if all your side-kicking didn’t amount to anything at all, but he doesn’t need to be the hero – the player does. As the PC, I want to feel like I am the star. I don’t want a npc to take over my story and treat me like a henchman – if anything, I want npcs to be my henchmen. If I pay 60 bucks for a rpg, mmo or not, then I darn sure better be the main character.

^ This is a genius idea lol. I mean everybody I know just wants to kill him so why not make a plot out of it? It would bring justice to your character

Personally, I’d rather not have yet another plotline focused on Trahearne, even as an antagonist. I’m tired of him, and he’s had enough of the spotlight in my opinion.

I’d rather have him just stay in Orr doing administrative stuff, and staying out of the way in the next expansion.

Trahearne needs to be permanently bound to Orr by his cleansing spell. If he leaves, it collapses. Honestly he should have been forced to literally take root and become a new, smaller pale tree that guards and purifies the heart of Orr from now on.

That would be the sacrifice this character is so despertely lacking. That would show some real commitment to his Wyld Hunt. That would get him the hell out of frame so the story can maybe go somewhere.

I find it very hard to complete Trahearnes Personal Story, every mission is just another reason to big note himself in his monotone voice acting while you do the heavy lifting..

And then he has the gall to steal all my ideas…

Nothing annoys me more than a minor npc saying how they look up to trahearne and are so glad he’s running the show….wtf am i chopped liver standing there..

As i said i’m finding it hard to complete trahearnes personal story..its just really painful to play and the rewards at the end are slap in the face as well.

I’m at the battle to retake claw island.

This guy’s voice is so wooden, it sounds synthesized at some points. No, scratch that. There are some points where Siri would have performed his lines with more emotion.

Am I the only one who is annoyed by the fact that Trahearne is constantly whining (in monotone, of course) about his Wyld Hunt. Okay, dude. We get it. You want to disinfect zombie land. Now please stop going on about it.

Trahearne might be quite a wet character, but I like that for once the player character wasn’t the destined one of whom the whole plot revolves.

It’s so boring being told repeatedly in various other RPGs that your character is the “chosen one” and that you are the centre of everything going on in the game world.

Well i agree with most that i just can’t seem to like Trahearne for the fact that I who is the hero becomes someone elses lackey. What gets me the most though, is that we get no response from Anet on why they choose to have trahearne lead. I could probably like trehearne more if Anet would chime in some on this thread about why they choose to progress the story the way they did. For Story reasons i just don’t see why Trahearne had to take the lead. I mean yeah i hated that kormir became the god when we did all the work to kill abaddon, but i understood why. If the PC became the god then that would mean the end of their story. But for this i just can’t see how it would effect the story if the PC became the marshal and Trahearne the commander. So for now im just going to wait and hope that Anet will chime in on this or if they get the expansion right.

Well as soon as I’m done with the racial alliance portion of my personal storyline I’m through with it, my character is a Centurion of the Iron Legion and fully vetted Crusader of the Vigil, I refuse to follow the braying dictations of an bafoon like that Sylvari abomination that is afflicted upon us. I am Charr, and I don’t salute salads.

Another thing I don’t like about Trahearne is the fact he is so selfish.

Piecing together whatever small character and personality he has, the only reason he gives a kitten about Orr is to satisfy his “Wyld Hunt”.

In Layman’s terms, he had an “itch” he wanted to scratch. After that he couldn’t give a kitten about Zhaitan, and he doesn’t even bother helping you defeat him.

Also, just who is Trahearne anyways? He could summon 6 flesh golems and he was able to purify Orr himself? We know nothing about him.

Honestly I am on the fence with Trehaerne. I kind of expected him to come into his own more in the story, but he kinda just stays behind the scenes, he supposed to have earned the trust of all of these influential characters in Tyria. But I find it hard to believe he actually does anything.

I get it though, he is supposed to be an unlikely hero, he lacks confidence in himself but despite all of that he is the glue that holds the Pact together.

He also seems a little out of place for people who are not sylvari. I met him early in my personal story and learnt a little bit about him. It felt right to trust him when the Pact was forming as this character, but now I am on my other play throughs and he just does not click with my other characters. Just a simple click, now this guy is your boss.

He not a lost cause though, he as a character has a lot of potential, but it is just right now he just seems a little, well off. I hope A-net develops him more in the future and with that stops him from becoming another Kormir and stealing our glory at the last minute.

Lastly, comes my fanboy request, I would really like to see a sort of council in the Pact, Individuals from the 5 main races of GW who are all outside of the orders of tyria. With Trahaerne as the head of the council. This could provide a bit of a balance for Trahaerne, without re-writing his character or retconing anything. The future of the Pact is unknown to us and I hope it (along with our own personal story) grow and flourish.

Trahaerne for me was fine when you first meet him (I was playing as a charr) but the moment he gets his hands on that sword, his character suddenly does a massive u-turn, no longer is he a stay at the back of the party and do his bit person, he’s right in there swinging a greatsword round and upsetting every single mob within earshot whilst barking out commands and might as well be demanding everything under the sun at the same time.
For me, with such a drastic change, he could of easily been replaced with another character and I wouldn’t have noticed. I know he’s meant to grow into his role, but it’s such a sudden transition you instantly dislike him because he’s becomes ‘do this, do that’ without really doing much himself. It’s like he read ‘learn to lead a world saving operation in five minutes’ and now thinks he’s a strategic god. Seen as though he’s boss, can he be left in Orr to guard it?
Or as said above, he could get tainted by some evil in an expansion pack and go on a mad rampage- all the power going to his head or something like that
Also, why did all the interesting characters have to be killed off or left in the dust, never to develop? I miss adventures with Dinky

I care as much for Treehead as he seemed to care for me. ‘Commander to me" one more time, I’m gonna shove this staff so far up your….

anyway, Only way I can think to fix it would be to have an ending cutscene where Trehearn dies. He confides in us, that he expended his life to save Orr, and he always knew it would end his life. In the confiding he apologies for being so cold, but it because he was scared, he knew it would end his life, and he never wanted to get close to knowing it wouldn’t last. His last words are something to the affect of “thank you, the world my not know it, but you are the true savior of tyira.”

Like everyone else, I wasn’t impressed with him. Here’s what you need to do, Arenanet.

1. You need to have him get horribly crippled in some terrible accident. HORRIBLY CRIPPLED. As in he can’t move and has speech problems.
2. You need to have him despair over his pitiful state, go into deep depression, and then start obsessivley studying the necromancer arts for a way to heal his wasted body
3. He needs to tap into corrupted dragon power, whether accidentally, or intentionally (driven by desparation), and become corrupt
4. He will regain use of his body and become super powerful as a result of the magic, but he has become corrupted and turns into the most awesome super villian ever. New Dragon Champion!

Do that, and you’ll redeem him.

cmlanton.3496:

Okay, here’s my proposal:

Since there’s no way they can undo what has already been done, ANet needs to work with what they have. So what do you do when the personal story is over, and no one is satisfied? Release expansion content! The way I see it, Trahearne is in the perfect position to be a super villain. He’s disliked by most of the player base, and for good reason. He’s in a position of power. He’s well liked by the npcs. He’s got the Disney villain thing going on with his voice. He’s got the undying trust of everyone. He’s shuffled your character underfoot, and has taken your credit and respect.

If Trahearne was a villain, it would mean you would have a reason to be “the hero” again. It wouldn’t even need to start all at once. Your character could notice slow changes in Trahearne’s character – the Pale Tree could show concern. There could be a whole campaign against your character by Trahearne’s loyals when you refuse to be his yes-man, and old friends could reappear out of the woodwork to offer their support. Hell, for all I care, your mentor could miraculously still be alive. The orders could, at some point, gain independence again, while the Pact could remain Trahearne’s army. Destiny’s Edge could be your best friend.
.

I SECOND THIS

Trahearne was boring. He literally makes me sleepy when I hear him speak. I skip every bit of his dialogue when I make an alt. I didn’t tell my friends how much I despised Trahearne so that I wouldn’t spoil their good time. But I do despise him. So boring.

I’m not going to say that Trahearne is boring because we all know he is. I just point either the worst piece of dialogue in the game or a hint that Trahearne is evil. After cleansing Orr Trahearne says “now the pact will devote all their rescoures to your goal of killing Zhaitan.” If Trahearne is not evil then he is incredibly arrogant and believes the whole pact formed to complete his wyld hunt and no one other than you actually cares about killing Zhaitan. If he is evil then this tells us he has no intresest in fighting Zhaitan.

Simonoly.4352:

Trahearne might be quite a wet character, but I like that for once the player character wasn’t the destined one of whom the whole plot revolves.

It’s so boring being told repeatedly in various other RPGs that your character is the “chosen one” and that you are the centre of everything going on in the game world.

Yeah, judging by everything in this thread, we know exactly who that title belongs to in GW2, and shows just how bad of a decision it was. It’s like you get turned from a hero of a sort into a henchman/pack mule for a lobotomized walking celery stick who can’t even fend off undead cows 1v1.

So I will admit that I didn’t read all 5 pages of this thread since it’s a lot but I wanted to basically say a lot of the Trahearne hate is completly unwarranted if you pay attention to the actual dialouge.

I’ll try to cover the main reason why people hate him:

1) He steals my glory, he’s power hungry, takes all the credit, etc.

This one is is very silly since if you read any of his lines he likes to mention almost ad nauseum that the Pact did it not him. In the quest Forging the Pact after you save the Priory team a charr member personally thanks Trahearne who then says “no the pact did it not me” or something to that effect. This is important because without him you actually would have failed that mission (he summons the Flesh Golems and clears the path). Also people seem to forget that your character suggests he becomes the leader of the Pact (At the end of Claw Island I believe) and he is very hesitant to do so. Yes what a glory hog he is taking you up on your offer. Not to mention the countless times he displays confidience and trust in you. None of his lines show him to be stealing credit in fact he harps on about unity, the Pact, workng together, and all that jazz all the time.

2) His voice acting is off, his personality is dry, he’s a wimp, etc

Well firstly, a lot of this is obviously more subjective than the other complaint but still a lot of the whining is a bit silly. I for one like that we have a level headed calm scholar type. Not everyone is going to be a cliche grizzled warrior (Forgal). That’s just boring. Also his lines don’t really require the sort of range you people are looking for, honestly he talks like a normal person since most of the dialogue he has is in a relaxed situation. Most of the dialogue with NPC’s happen at the end and beginning of a story mission, where there isn’t much action: mostly planning and reflection (two things smart scholarly types are good at). In the Pale Tree’s vision of Orr his phantom gives a speech to the Pact soldiers which has the emotion you people seem to be looking for. Of course it’s tempered which fits his personality.

I think this is just another case of the internet overreacting and not thinking. It seems a few people don’t like him for some silly reason, or they just skipped the story. And so everyone just bandwagoned on the hate. I can get not liking his personality and stuff but the whole glory hog thing is ludicrous since everything about him points to him acting in the exact opposite way. Then again people seem to love Countess Anise because she wears a corset and has a raspy voice. Internet peoples be fickle I guess.

I also have a feeling that Kormir got treated the same way, while truthfully I don’t remember the specifics of Nightfall’s story I do remember going through it and not feeling shafted by her. You know people like to throw out the word entitlement when talking about gamers these days but I never thought it would seep into the story. It’s actually interesting to not be the main character for once and to experience the story from a different angle.

TLDR version: The main complaint of Trahearne stealing glory isn’t valid since he does the exact opposite.

Another thing that just popped into my head: People criticize him for getting the Order’s leader’s opinions on him during Forging the Pact. If anything a good leader should be concerned about how his soldiers feel about him.

This is one of the most gratifying threads I’ve read on these forums.

I quit playing this game for about a month and a half because of Trahearne. At first I didn’t mind him even though there are many valid points about how he takes over, has terrible voice acting, and his AI is terrible. I was willing to let these things go.

But then came “Forging The Pact” where I have to go ask all the leaders what they think about Trahearne being the Marshall. It was fine, they had their reservations due to his experience and what would happen to the pact if he should die. Completely valid concerns. And then comes the part that me made stop playing, a priory scholar comes and says his buddies need rescuing. I’m thinking, cool, I’ll have to go save them since I appear to be the arm of the Marshall. What does Trahearne do? Comes with me. What? That’s not what leaders do. Send me, man! I can do it. Plus, I just told you these guys are worried what might happen if you die. Ok. You’re going to come anyway? Fine.

So I swallow the stupidity and go do the quest. It’s bugged. I do it again a few days later, having to endure the same stupidity. Still bugged. Do it AGAIN a few days later and make it through. The whole section felt like Trahearne was making the wrong decisions on what we should do. How can I follow this guy now? He’s a terrible leader. How can I convince others to follow him?

I didn’t rage quit the game at this point. I still played it. I just avoided doing the personal story. I talked to my friends about how dumb I thought that part was and how that section showed he’d be a terrible leader. Then I eventually talked myself out of playing the game. I couldn’t bear to log in to listen to this wooden goof “lead” me.

When I came back I got my main, an Engineer, the last few levels to 80 but I’ve done none of the personal story. I started up a Thief who is level 63 and I’m just past “Clawr Risland”. It is soooo painful and I dread when I get to Forging the Pact. Absolutely dread it. I will trudge through it though with my Thief, but my Engineer will stay blissfully unaware.

I even have a Sylvari Mesmer who I did the earlier stuff about Trahearne and that made me like him even less. If there was ever a story option to betray Trahearne I would do it in a heartbeat.

I loved the Tybalt character. If he had rose above his lack of confidence to become a great leader and warrior I would be praising this game instead of berating it. Instead he goes the whole unnecessary self sacrifice route which totally made no sense since we could have closed the gate without him being on the other side and still gotten away.

Simonoly.4352:

Trahearne might be quite a wet character, but I like that for once the player character wasn’t the destined one of whom the whole plot revolves.

It’s so boring being told repeatedly in various other RPGs that your character is the “chosen one” and that you are the centre of everything going on in the game world.

The thing is, though, these aren’t the only two options.

There’s no need to have a chosen one at all. The victory could simply have been acknowledged as the group effort it actually was.

For me, the issue isn’t that Trahearne was the leader and my character wasn’t – it was that the leadership role was treated as the pivotal story issue, instead of the story just focusing on whatever the PC was doing at the time.

Your character doesn’t have to be the great hero and focus of everything to have the personal story be about you. It’s a matter of where the spotlight is directed. It’s fine for your character to be a footsoldier… as long as the story is about footsoldiers. Your character doesn’t have to be central to the Pact or the world to be central to your own story.

asimo.6354:

So I will admit that I didn’t read all 5 pages of this thread since it’s a lot but I wanted to basically say a lot of the Trahearne hate is completly unwarranted if you pay attention to the actual dialouge.

Then why is there a 5-page complaint thread? If you liked Trahearne, good for you, but you can’t say everyone else is being unreasonable or skipped the story. It’s not even Trahearne himself that’s the problem, but how he was written in, and how the story was constructed. People like the main character being the main character in a story, and supporting characters being supporting characters. What if, halfway through The Lion King, Simba was completely thrown out the window and the movie revolved around Zazu? I don’t know about you, but I’d walk out of the theatre, even though Zazu is one of my favorite characters. Why? Because the story was about Simba. It doesn’t matter if Scar is still defeated at the end under Zazu’s brave but humble leadership with the support of all the powerful lionesses and Simba as his right hand man, because we wanted to watch Simba develop and grow and come into his character, not a supporting character. When you start GW2, your player character is placed in the position of the main character, regardless of how many other beloved characters are introduced. ANet replacing the main character once his or her crafted and flourishing story finally starts the race towards the climax is frankly just poor writing.

Firstly to address your 5 page comment, well just because a lot of people say something doesn’t make it so. Least of all on the internet of all places…

But anyway most of what you said is fine by me, and I can understand being annoyed at not being the central character, which I guess is a matter of preference or taste. What I was getting at is what seems to be the biggest complaint lobbied against Trahearne: which is he takes all the credit and steals all the glory. My point was this is not true at all. Disliking him for other reasons may be valid (insofar as they are very subjective), and yours seem to be. Though they are tangential to his actual characterization.

Of course problems with the story in general like how it’s written, or not being the main character are a separate issues from what I was trying to address.

Oh how I have waited for this moment.. Trahearne will be choking on a bag of kittens chanting “blarghblargh Caladbolg blarghblarghlabhrglh” while I look at my character wearing Twilight. Kitten you and your Caladbolg I got a sword of my own now.

I don’t dislike trahearne’s character or the voice acting. I guess expecting a fierce commander from someone who is a scholar wouldn’t make any sense. I want to see more Zojja though her voice acting is excellent

Disclaimer: I believe most problems with the storyline come from my speculation that in like 2008 the writers were told “you have X lines we can afford to have voice-acted”, and that X was very low. This leads to one+five characters (mr. T and the DE guild) doing most of the talking. I will discuss plot quality here without regards for this belief.

asimo.6354:

TLDR version: The main complaint of Trahearne stealing glory isn’t valid since he does the exact opposite.

What a character says, and how he acts, does not impact on what actually happens. Trahearne is entirely in character when he says what he says. But these are the facts:

• he is introduced in your storyline about halfway, and immediately becomes your boss;
• he tells you what must be done every time, and gives you little choice;
• he is considered to be the main hero of the story by our character and all NPCs.

What we played in the second half of our storyline was Trahearne’s Personal Story – which is the mission to cleanse Orr. Our character just happens to be the next “chosen one” (literally) who can act as the sidekick of the main character, much like Darth Vader to Palpatine.

This is the first problem – what matters is what happens, and what happens is the guy’s storyline – we are his pawns, despite what he says.

On to the character himself. As a piece of “literature”, Trahearne would be an effective character if he managed to provoke emotions in the “readers” – us. They might be good emotions, or sad emotions. Take our mentors: they were clearly one-dimensional, but they managed to make (most of) us happy and we were sad and disappointed when they died. This means we grew attached to them, so they fulfilled their purpose. Why? Because we players identify in the mentors’ personalities. We want to have that bold approach to the game, and our mentors were telling us to do just that. We didn’t need to know their backstories, their past, or anything – we felt close to them, naturally. It is a bit of a cheap way to craft an empathic character, but it worked.

Trahearne. Let’s make a count of people who love him, and let’s make a count of people who love their mentor. There will be no contest. Why? Because the writer attempted to create a tridimensional character with Trahearne. They gave him his quirks and traits – the race, the status in the race, the distinctive calm voice; they gave him the big backstory; they gave him an active role, so that he could show how his backstory drives his actions (knowledge etc etc). All the ingredients for a tridimensional character are there; but it fails, utterly. Why? Because we didn’t identify with him. The whole “getting” his character is lacking, for a series of reasons. The first one is that he takes charge in the moment when we would like to see our character take charge. The second one is that the position he assumes is not justified – the video is enough explanation of that. He doesn’t feel “right”. He often goes on saying that this is not his place too – then why doesn’t he step down and leave our character in charge? Given the premises of the three Orders, it was clearly unfeasible. The writer should have had the character unify the orders from within one of them instead, maybe. Plenty of ways to do it without having to resort to Trahearne leading.

Another reason is his lines and voice acting: it is fine in my opinion, but not for your boss. Your boss has to justify in every single line why he’s boss. This is a thing the GW series has always had a problem with. Togo and Kormir were passable leaders at most – but they had, you know, that drive. Trahearne would have made a great advisor.

(continues)

One huge problem with GW2 is that the screen time of the characters is very low – and the dialogue cinematic, in my opinion, detaches characters from the world they live in. This makes every word they say less powerful. Furthermore, the body language is incredibly lacking, and body language is paramount. There are too few quests in the story, or there is too much combat involved; this makes us unable to fully experience a character and let him grow and develop. I felt that the time spent with the mentor was slightly short – for a character that had only one thing to express! Trahearne would have needed 40-50 levels of quests to establish himself, at this pace. So, constraints made the job of making Trahearne certainly harder.

The second problem was the poor layout of the story. Most people will agree that the racial part (1-30) is generally well done. I think it gets the proper space too. What doesn’t get the proper space is the three orders. This is one perfect example to how an old-fashioned cinematic would have worked better than the slideshow we get. The first meeting with the orders is the slideshow of them saying “hi I’m X” “hi I’m Y” “hi I’m Z” and then the writer has to make them start bickering in order to allow them to express their diversity. This fails to convey the fundamental message of the three orders, makes them look a bit alike, and even childish. Picture instead a standard cinematic: we arrive in place and there is the Priory guy who is busy looking at some asuran screen with reports of findings; we have the Vigil guy surrounded by a delegation of four-five warriors armed to the teeth; halfway in, the Whispers guy appears out of nowhere with a cunning line during the conversation. Now the three orders are very clearly defined, and they don’t have to resort to any bickering. We don’t even need to have them do three rounds of quests, so clear their way of acting is. Also, one final step with all three orders acting together is very lacking. Take the sylvari “storm the castle and kill the lich” L30 step. This had to be a quest starting with finding a way to open a gate with the Whispers, join the charge with the Vigil, and do some ritual to trap the lich with the Priory. Or something. It would have showcased all three orders perfectly in one huge, entertaining quest.

One consideration on the plot type chosen: it is clearly black/white morality, and the hero is clearly on the white side. What I’m thinking is: isn’t this kind of plot a bit old by now? If you look around, so many games have abandoned it. They let be good people who want to be good, and allow different actions for other characters. This ties back to all the charisma/dignity/ferocity that Could Have Been. This system, CDF for short, should have been handled differently. It should have impacted decisions. Every story step where we have to choose should have tied our choices to the CDF. Example: how to deal with a thief. Confront him openly trying to talk your way out would have been a 8 charisma, -8 F; while bursting into his house to get our property back would have been a +6 ferocity, -3 C -3 D. Another story step would give the player the honorable option. After a while (L40), the story steps presented change accordingly to what the player has done, not said. If said player consistently tried to talk to thieves, for example, he might start the order unification storyline sooner, maybe gaining an ally order by level 50, so some members of that order sacrifice themselves instead of the mentor, and he stays with you for the rest of the story.

More: it is good, in my opinion, that the player can gain and lose allies. If a player does not do the right thing at least once, then the Pact disgregates or does not fully form. This would lead to dialogue about how “Fort Trinity” failed to live up to its name, etc. It breathes life into the world. It also has some consequences on the scripts of some of the latter quests, with story options closed off. Also the minor races we help should be able to join us in the final struggle if we helped them enough! It is important that players see the effects of their actions.
In short, I have no experience in writing storylines, yet I think I could do leaps better if I had a good budget for it – which makes me think that the budget for the storyline was extrmely small.

Oh and disable textile on the forum pls.