Guild Wars 2

Yoh.8469:

Muzical.1396:

Shiren.9532:

Yoh.8469:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

(Snip)
Pet’s on the other hand I find so generic, that the only real difference you would get one is because of their F2 skill, which is usually pretty generic.
You either invest in using your pet, or not. But the differences in kind just are not there.

If for example they had an Aspect of “pet” which gave a passive effect regardless of whether they are alive or not. Such as Aspect of Birds, gives you +25% projectile speed, or Aspect of Moas gives you +25% movement speed.
Something class defining that you’d want to build you build around, that you’d want that specific pet because of what it does, rather then the unnecessary tac-on’s they feel like now.

I love the idea of using pets to promote build diversity and offering rangers (and hopefully their parties) a variety of effects. Currently I can slot a bird or a pig and aside from slight DPS or tankyness differences, they don’t feel very different. They aren’t interesting for build choices. I would love to see pet families get some kind of aspect/aura that made them feel more interesting from a build variety perspective. If it only effected the ranger and its pet by default and could be traited via BM to buff the whole party it would also give PvE rangers a reason to invest in the BM line and help their parties (most BM traits are very selfish).

It would help to add depth to pet choices, it makes the pets feel like valuable allies rather than DPS leaches and it opens up options for ranges to support their party (a current weakness of rangers in PvE imo).

This sounds like how an ele’s attunement can be traited to put an aura on party members; I don’t see how the one would be OP and this not. I don’t think I would use it on a ranger, but it’s certainly an interesting idea.

Yes, I certainly would like to see an option if a buff like this existed, to be able to trait it to effect your party members. Because time and again we see the Ranger getting left out of groups because it really doesn’t bring much to the table.
(maybe this wouldn’t be the case if Spirits weren’t so unbelievably fragile)

If you could buff your party with ‘Aspect of Felines’ you attack 10% faster, there are going to be situations where that could be highly valued.

Even if spirits weren’t fragile, only Frost is really desired in PvE. Unlike warrior banners (all of which are considerably valuable to a party) spirits are very hit and miss. Not only do we not control when they give the benefits (they are passive RNG – two things that many people hate) but they are niche in their benefits. Swiftness is useful for skipping, it’s less useful in PvE combat (you don’t have to chase or run from targets, they come to you and you kill them, when you do run and want swiftness you are skipping and won’t be hitting targets to proc it), burning doesn’t help anyone without condition damage and any condition build likely already has burning, the protection is about the most useful one and it’s RNG (something you don’t want) and short duration (so it could be useful or it couldn’t be). Frost Spirit is the only one commonly used and it’s simply because it’s a flat DPS buff available no-where else. It’s not a fun skill to use, it’s just useful.

Their actives are marginally useful if the spirits are alive and almost never useful with the way spirits are played. Spirits are placed out of range (so they can live) so no-one bothers with their actives (because if the placement is right, their AoE won’t hit anything). If they are in range they usually die to cleaves or AoE (this is also why the mobile spirits trait is bad). Spirits don’t work as designed in PvE – because of their fragility players are encouraged to avoid half of their functions. It’s a whole different world in PvP.

Even if spirits were alive all the time, most of them don’t offer enough desired effects to make a party want to bring them.

Regarding armor, I would sincerely dislike such things. Alternate skin colors (within reason) maybe, but adding armor to pets would be rather ridiculous in my opinion and I truly hope ANet is not seriously considering this when there are so many other issues that would be better served spending development time on.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Do keep in mind though, I am not a designer. I am a community coordinator. It is my job to help promote constructive discussion and make sure the devs know about how the community is feeling.

Please pass this along.

*I’m going to use “we” below because I know I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Despite the negative feedback and hard time we give you folks, we like you all and the game you have created. You are a creative bunch of hard working people and that is clear by what you have produced so far. Yes, this game is still growing and changing, but the most important thing right now is to seriously work on the weakest area. That area happens to be profession development.

I came from an ncsoft game where the development team poured their heart and soul into professions, but sadly I don’t see that here. I do see, though, very little investment of time and resources going to the most important aspect of this game. It’s disappointing to see what appears to be a “professions are good enough” attitude from the team through patch notes and forum comments. I know this game is still young and that development takes time, trial and error, but during the ongoing process of managing and improving every aspect of the game you all need to remember that professions are always #1. Your team is failing to put professions first and that’s a big problem because it affects every part of gameplay. Do you guys and gals want to improve pve, pvp, wvw, eotm, dungeons, fractals, ls content, personal story, leveling, player retention…, …, …? Of course you do, so reinvest resources, time, blood, sweat and tears to make professions cause a positive ripple effect throughout the entire game. Anything short of a strong investment at this point would be a foolish mistake.

disagree regarding the removal of the pet , does not mean that because of the rangers of the other games that do not use the pet GW2 has to follow the same line

Sic ’Em – This Shout when used causes the pet be stopped about 2 seconds , which is out shortly 10s as the target manages to dodge attacks easily and is difficult to use it with a high Cd

Guard – think this useless to me why not shout any benefit that helps the ranger really enough

Search and Rescue – I prefer myself to go in there and give ress friend

Protect Me – only useful in pvp now in wvw is useless …

Signet of Removal- remove 2 conditions could at least be improved and the active

Signet Wild – could affect the ranger also naturally without the need of beastmaster trait

 Traps all – go to wilderness survival trait

Ranger really need to have a pet that has damage without need of critical damage 30 % and 30 % the speed of the pet , the pet that should this naturally without the need trait , plus it had the damage nerf pet without since other classes cause enough damage more than the ranger , Pet Ai Status really deserves a better condition as having damage and other attributes added as they invest in beastmaster trait and have improved F2 command to obey the time you use

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok guys, just wanted to clarify a few things.

Permastow is not impossible. I never meant to give that impression, so I apologize if I did. However, as far as priorities go for the Ranger, it is not high on the list. Why? Because it would require an entire re-balance of Ranger, but if we re-balanced, then the players that do play with the pet would be OP. See the dilemma there?

The reason why I latched onto the aspect idea was because it was an option that seemed we could maybe work around. Rather than having to rebalance the whole class, we’d just have to balance the aspects to be similar to what the pet does damage-wise. That seemed a little more viable.

Do keep in mind though, I am not a designer. I am a community coordinator. It is my job to help promote constructive discussion and make sure the devs know about how the community is feeling.

I will say this, though. I have seen some ideas blossom in the game that came directly from the community. We do listen to your feedback. Sometimes we modify and tweak the numbers a bit, but we definitely listen.

You guys really inspire us with your constructive feedback, which is why I’m always trying to emphasize the importance of it.

Since permastow is not impossible I would ask that you please make permastow a top priority. I understand that rebalancing is time and resource consuming but this is long overdue for the ranger profession. We desperately need to have the class broken down and rebuilt if it means we have a chance at being as effective as other classes have been since launch. I love my ranger in open world pve and sadly other than 1 build in PvP and my roaming build in wvw (which is not even as good as my thief or my warrior though it requires twice the effort) they are sub standard.

Weapon skills all need to be addressed as well as slot skills and traits but the pet is by far the greatest drawback to the class in organized play. Back to the drawing board.

Idk, I more ambivalent about the idea of permastow.

I don’t think it’s going to happen, but if it were I don’t think I would miss the pet at all.
They are such non-entities, that their existence or non-existance in the game, really wouldn’t have that much of an impact on the actual gameplay, the day to day operations of the Ranger.
Sure balance would shift dramatically, but that’s not the same thing.

They are so generic, so bland, I wouldn’t miss them for a second if they were to go.

I’ve already weighed in on Spirits, Signets and Shouts.
Traps and Survival Skills are in a much better place.

The only real odd man out on Survival Skills is Sharpening Stone, which I’d honestly like to see replaced entirely. Maybe that would be a good place for the often suggested ‘swap physical location with pet’?

But I think Traps do have a couple minor areas of improvement I’d like to see;

Specific Game Mode
PvE; larger implications

Proposal Overview
Homogenize functionality of traps and try to make their applications more meaningful.

Goal of Proposal
Traps are a bit on the ‘spammy’ side. In practice they play more like using grenades than actual traps. They could stand to place more emphasis on pre-emptive and positional ‘luring’ gameplay. The line also has a few odd outliers that could stand to be brought in line.

I went with the following because;

• Doesn’t promote too much spam
• Rewards a living pet.
• Manual activation can trigger traps on an unmoving boss or allow you to use it for solely it’s combo field properties.
• Optionally puts Pet near Trap for easier combo’ing
• Gives Ranger some direct damage AOE options.
• Fully specced, a pet helps you get things into traps – which seems like the kind of thing I’d want another body on the field to do.

Proposal Functionality: Outliers
Frost Trap: add AOE damage to bring in line with other traps.
Spike Trap: add Smoke Combo Field to bring in line with other traps.

Proposal Functionality: Function
Traps natively have Trapper’s Expertise’s Size and have increased Direct Damage but a slightly higher cooldown. They still trigger on collision with a foe. When placed instead of starting the cooldown, the button chains to a context sensitive command:
- When standing on top of trap -> Disarm; cooldown reduction ala’ engi turrets.
- When not standing on top of trap -> Pet will move to trap and manually trigger it.

Traits:
Trapper’s Expertise & Trapper’s Defense removed.
Trap Potency moved to Master Tier
New Grandmaster; Before a pet manually triggers a trap it will execute an AOE Pull larger than the trap itself.

Associated Risks
In essence mis-commanding the pets can cause a trap to ‘miss’ in a way it can’t now, so pressing the button too frantically might create results you wouldn’t enjoy.
A ‘go to’ function would really sell the mindscrew potential of the grandmaster trait.

Atherakhia.4086:

Chrispy.5641:

SkiTz.4590:

Ranger is a single target DPS class, that is the unfortunate truth and would take a lot of change to make it viable in terms of doing AOE damage like eles or necros.

I’ll give you the fact that they can’t spread them to other targets (again, this class is pretty much designed only for 1v1s). Traps aren’t big enough to be considered AOE. But rangers can apply/stack them pretty quickly…maybe not stack as high as a necro but who can? My ranger builds can reapply condis pretty much at will (poison,bleeds and burns that is) yea would be nice to have access to torment or confusion

Still, the build variety would be much better if anet could actually add something to make viable power builds for our class, but there is no such thing right now outside of the joke of a swop + bash + maul combat, which any idiot can see coming. and effectively dodge/block out of it

How big do traps need to be to be considered Aoe? Traps have an effective radius of 240 when traited, which is the same size as Barrage. Is Barrage not considered Aoe to you or something? How big does it have to be to be considered Aoe?

And what about Bonfire? Whirling Defense? drakes? What the heck else do you need to be able to do Aoe? (oh, let me guess, blast finisher like Thief shortbow….)

(oh, and necromancer marks are the same size as traps until you trait them to be bigger as well)

Take it in context. We were talking about AE application of condis between classes. Are you implying Ranger is even a contender when placed next to Engineers and Necros? Cause I have news for you… it’s not. It’s about on par with Warriors but can’t stack bleed to eleventybillion in .5 seconds every 5 seconds like a Warrior can.

Settle down…

(there’s been about a dozen other trap related posts since then, but it would take up too much space to quote them all)

I have news for you. The Ranger is a contender when it comes to condition builds, even next to Necromancer and Engineer because of how fast we can stack conditions. Just because we don’t deal bonus condition damage, or have a trait that gives us bonus condition damage does not mean that we suck at conditions. And we can definitely stack bleeds faster than Warriors. Just because of your refusal to accept the synergy between Traps and Sharpened Edges does not mean we automatically suck at conditions.

Here’s my trap build :::http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMEQRAnf3XjMqUuaHLerw1agYpQQ7vpITmn9wQO6RlcnoA-zECBYhDimWAgqI0k0Q5QFRjtaqIasqbY6YER1BAQA2ZdWnBYn7co7coJFAMLrA-w

It is my most used build, and I use it in PvE and WvW, and it is equally effective against all professions, and it is my 2nd highest dps build because I can hit multiple targets at once with almost all of my attacks, unlike, just about everything else the Ranger has.

So no, I won;t ‘settle down’, and yes, I am a little touchy when people try to suggest changes to traps, but fail to explain why beyond “Uh….it deals condition damage, so, it should be in wilderness survival…right?” (why do you want to move damage to a trait line that almost entirely focused on defense and force us to choose between one or the other?) or “It should deal more physical damage,…because, uh, BURST!” (which it shouldn’t because all skills have a maximum dps to consider when balancing. If traps dealt more physical damage, then the conditions would have to be nerfed because of gear stats like Rampager.) You should consider what Crit Chance and Sharpened Edges does for Traps before you go off blindly making suggestions to change it.

Chrispy.5641:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chrispy.5641:

SkiTz.4590:

Ranger is a single target DPS class, that is the unfortunate truth and would take a lot of change to make it viable in terms of doing AOE damage like eles or necros.

I’ll give you the fact that they can’t spread them to other targets (again, this class is pretty much designed only for 1v1s). Traps aren’t big enough to be considered AOE. But rangers can apply/stack them pretty quickly…maybe not stack as high as a necro but who can? My ranger builds can reapply condis pretty much at will (poison,bleeds and burns that is) yea would be nice to have access to torment or confusion

Still, the build variety would be much better if anet could actually add something to make viable power builds for our class, but there is no such thing right now outside of the joke of a swop + bash + maul combat, which any idiot can see coming. and effectively dodge/block out of it

How big do traps need to be to be considered Aoe? Traps have an effective radius of 240 when traited, which is the same size as Barrage. Is Barrage not considered Aoe to you or something? How big does it have to be to be considered Aoe?

And what about Bonfire? Whirling Defense? drakes? What the heck else do you need to be able to do Aoe? (oh, let me guess, blast finisher like Thief shortbow….)

(oh, and necromancer marks are the same size as traps until you trait them to be bigger as well)

Take it in context. We were talking about AE application of condis between classes. Are you implying Ranger is even a contender when placed next to Engineers and Necros? Cause I have news for you… it’s not. It’s about on par with Warriors but can’t stack bleed to eleventybillion in .5 seconds every 5 seconds like a Warrior can.

Settle down…

(there’s been about a dozen other trap related posts since then, but it would take up too much space to quote them all)

I have news for you. The Ranger is a contender when it comes to condition builds, even next to Necromancer and Engineer because of how fast we can stack conditions. Just because we don’t deal bonus condition damage, or have a trait that gives us bonus condition damage does not mean that we suck at conditions. And we can definitely stack bleeds faster than Warriors. Just because of your refusal to accept the synergy between Traps and Sharpened Edges does not mean we automatically suck at conditions.

Here’s my trap build :::http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMEQRAnf3XjMqUuaHLerw1agYpQQ7vpITmn9wQO6RlcnoA-zECBYhDimWAgqI0k0Q5QFRjtaqIasqbY6YER1BAQA2ZdWnBYn7co7coJFAMLrA-w

It is my most used build, and I use it in PvE and WvW, and it is equally effective against all professions, and it is my 2nd highest dps build because I can hit multiple targets at once with almost all of my attacks, unlike, just about everything else the Ranger has.

So no, I won;t ‘settle down’, and yes, I am a little touchy when people try to suggest changes to traps, but fail to explain why beyond “Uh….it deals condition damage, so, it should be in wilderness survival…right?” (why do you want to move damage to a trait line that almost entirely focused on defense and force us to choose between one or the other?) or “It should deal more physical damage,…because, uh, BURST!” (which it shouldn’t because all skills have a maximum dps to consider when balancing. If traps dealt more physical damage, then the conditions would have to be nerfed because of gear stats like Rampager.) You should consider what Crit Chance and Sharpened Edges does for Traps before you go off blindly making suggestions to change it.

I run something very similar as my wvw roaming build but with sword as my off set MH for mobility and minor changes to healing as I run apothecary. I’m not a proponent of moving the traps to another line but if they increase the size of traps, I’ll be very happy.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Goal of Proposal
Traps are a bit on the ‘spammy’ side. In practice they play more like using grenades than actual traps. They could stand to place more emphasis on pre-emptive and positional ‘luring’ gameplay. The line also has a few odd outliers that could stand to be brought in line.

You can already do this very sucessfully. Because of the low cooldown of traps, you can lay down a bunch of them, then the moment an enemy triggers one, you can lay down several more. the Pre-emptive aspect is already there.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Chrispy.5641:

(there’s been about a dozen other trap related posts since then, but it would take up too much space to quote them all)

I have news for you. The Ranger is a contender when it comes to condition builds, even next to Necromancer and Engineer because of how fast we can stack conditions. Just because we don’t deal bonus condition damage, or have a trait that gives us bonus condition damage does not mean that we suck at conditions. And we can definitely stack bleeds faster than Warriors. Just because of your refusal to accept the synergy between Traps and Sharpened Edges does not mean we automatically suck at conditions.

Here’s my trap build :::http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMEQRAnf3XjMqUuaHLerw1agYpQQ7vpITmn9wQO6RlcnoA-zECBYhDimWAgqI0k0Q5QFRjtaqIasqbY6YER1BAQA2ZdWnBYn7co7coJFAMLrA-w

It is my most used build, and I use it in PvE and WvW, and it is equally effective against all professions, and it is my 2nd highest dps build because I can hit multiple targets at once with almost all of my attacks, unlike, just about everything else the Ranger has.

So no, I won;t ‘settle down’, and yes, I am a little touchy when people try to suggest changes to traps, but fail to explain why beyond “Uh….it deals condition damage, so, it should be in wilderness survival…right?” (why do you want to move damage to a trait line that almost entirely focused on defense and force us to choose between one or the other?) or “It should deal more physical damage,…because, uh, BURST!” (which it shouldn’t because all skills have a maximum dps to consider when balancing. If traps dealt more physical damage, then the conditions would have to be nerfed because of gear stats like Rampager.) You should consider what Crit Chance and Sharpened Edges does for Traps before you go off blindly making suggestions to change it.

I run something very similar as my wvw roaming build but with sword as my off set MH for mobility and minor changes to healing as I run apothecary. I’m not a proponent of moving the traps to another line but if they increase the size of traps, I’ll be very happy.

I actually try to avoid mobility in that build, only dodgind occasionally. While it seems counter to how guild wars 2 plays, traps have only a barrage sized area of effect, and if I move around too much while fighting enemies, there’s a very good possibility that enemies might step outside the trap area, and would no longer get conditions stacked on them.

Also @everyone reading my posts, don’t get too angry at my posts for being the lone wolf pushing back against almost all of the proposed trap changes. Its just that it is one of my most used builds (probably most used), it is very effective, and I really don’t see why Rabid/Rampager/other crit gear has to essentially be less optimized and take a nerf to traps, just so other builds (anything without crit and condition damage) can be optimized for traps. It doesn’t make sense to nerf one only to buff the other. (I still think that moving traps to Wilderness Survival is a nerf to Ranger survival in general, because if you run any trap at all, you now have to choose between survival traits and traps, or conflicting traits like off-hand training.)

Specific Game Mode
< PvX.>
Proposal Overview
< Swap the fallowing traits from the fallowing trait lines to better improve build synergy and survivability for builds as well as to please players (yes this includes “trap traits”)>
Goal of Proposal
< As most people already know ranger traits seem to be everywhere and do not always correlate with trait lines that would function with builds. Swapping these 4 traits from Skirmishing and Wilderness survival would improve both trap builds as well as power builds in terms of functionality and survival. >
Proposal Functionality
<

• Swap: Trapper’s Expertise (VIII Skirmishing) with Oakheart Salve (VIII Wilderness Survival) to allow for more relief from condition spamming specs when slotting for power removes most of the condition cleansing abilities for ranger.
• Swap: Trap Potency (XI Skirmishing) with Bark Skin (XII Wilderness Survival) to improve the synergy of conditions lasting longer and improving the survivability of raw power builds. Since ranger power builds do not work like the typical class cannon, putting everything into power/prec/critdmg and 1-2 shotting a foe while hoping you don’t get killed firing those 2 abilities I do not see bark skin being overpowered for power builds since the ranger is a “sustained damage class” a passive damage mitigation is almost needed for power builds to ever be played in pvp if we will never be able to do what the other power builds from other classes do in the sPvP portion of the game. Rangers cannot spike like the other classes. Also we do not have any traits that can be used for passive dmg mitigation in the builds that need them. >

Associated Risks
< Better build flow with better trait flows leading to a possibility of new trap builds as well as more power/crit orientated builds budding out into the sPvP world, chance at some becoming powerful if handled correctly but that can be handled with if the situation arises which it might not.>

Specific Game Mode
< PvX.>
Proposal Overview
< Improve ranger ability to deal with immobilize and better deal with the spike builds that accompany them>
Goal of Proposal
< Currently rangers do not have the ability to effectively remove immobilization conditions, this is because rangers are not able to cleanse conditions fast enough to get through cover conditions to break the immobilize which is near impossible with the classes that use immobilize and the additional conditions they have access to with the same weapons which usually reapply cover conditions every second whether it be burning/bleeding/poison/blind out cleansing does not keep up. >
Proposal Functionality
< Add a functionality to the Tail wind trait to reduce immobilize by 90% and still grant the swap benefit as well. Keep the soft CC on full duration. It would be like how the warrior has immunity to soft CC but is weak to hard CC… also will help deal with the current builds that imob rangers and burn them while under 4 sec of imob. Allow ranger to come back from being hard CC’d with a condition that they cannot normally cleanse. >
Associated Risks
< well it will be harder to spike the ranger but in terms of risk, most of it can be overcome with soft CC or other conditions that can be dealt with better in terms of a more normal build such as fear, stun, daze, chill… something that does not require 1 skill to counter it for near every match in sPvP or WvW. >

You can already do this very sucessfully. Because of the low cooldown of traps, you can lay down a bunch of them, then the moment an enemy triggers one, you can lay down several more. the Pre-emptive aspect is already there.

They’re basically working off of Preparation logic.

So it’s a pretty shallow expression of the concept. You can certainly ‘double-up’ at the start of combat, but after that it’s pretty much just a ground-targeted AOE you’re spamming off of cooldown.

It’s alot of brainlessly repeating very weak effects, instead of strategically applying one strong effect. The fact the effect is ‘hidden’ and ‘triggered’ ends up being superfluous, which undermines much of what differentiates traps from other things and erodes the mindgame gameplay where traps are their strongest. A half a dozen cripples is nothing compared to making your opponent think twice about stepping on the floor.

They’re very much Grenade-like in practice, and not at all like Traps I’ve played with in other games.

As it is now confirmed that Permastow is possible I think it might be time to come up with a replacement class mechanic, one that both minimizes the reliance on AI and makes us more viable.

PVX

Traps are the new ranger core mechanic

How it Works

Our existing traps take up our F1-F4 when we stow our pet. And 100% of our power is given to us.

Why it’s good to be a trapper even if you’re an archer

A ranged player should understand better than anyone that you’re going to get closed on in combat and how great it would be to be sniping from range while standing on a stack of 4 traps, just waiting for someone to melee you. As a melee player, even in dungeons you can drop traps on bosses for added damage. If you are a trap ranger already great news, you can still play the way you want, just don’t stow pet. If you do stow pet, you now have more slot skills available.

Why it’s not Overpowered

We would be shockingly good with this change I’m not denying that at all, but we’d only be catching up to everyone else. We are so far behind all other classes because we’ve been saddled with a non functional class mechanic forever.

Ask yourselves this, why is making one class as strong as all other classes so difficult?

Just chiming in about Guard

If a “go there” command would be implemented in the F skills, I wouldn’t mind many change proposals.
As it is, it is our only way of telling the pet where it should go / attack from – which has its uses. the relatively low CD allows to position the pet relatively often.
Adding too much to it (=longer CD), or taking it off althogether would take off one of our only pet positionning tool…

Xaylin.1860:

RoyalPredator.9163:

70:30 dps split? 100:~10 please !!

And how should that be justified?
A 100% should be 100% and therefore the pet has to be included somehow.

RoyalPredator.9163:

But what we basicly need is mutch higher ROF and NO CDs ON WEAPON SKILLS

No CD on weapon skills? What do you think causes the issues of balancing Thieves?

Every class has 100% base player damage by itself, and their unique bar gives more dmg or special things. Note that our Pet still won’t give that ~+10-15% dmg when they rebalance our lack of dmg. But as you see, most of us prefer Pets to don’t deal dmg that counts while Untraited for it. It should be used for catching the target mainly.
And our Shout-to-pet skills should be in their F controls, not as ultility skills…

Permastow is a hard question… It would be OK if it gives some non-dmg wise buff in exchange of losing that “catch” ability. You guys may not tought about the possibility to get a New F1-F4 bar for Preparations/Traps meanwhile Pet is stowed!!!!!

@ No CDs: Balancing Thieves are out of this topic, but this isn’t a real issue. Or at least it shouldn’t be. Problem is on AN’s side, they put up “one shot kill” skills as balance and wonder why they seem unbalanced. Thieves should use sustained damage while sticking in our face, just as GW1 Assassins. Those were great, a million+ loyal user can’t understand why AN drops the awesome designs from GW1…

@ Armoured Pets: What about WE getting some REAL ARMOR first? I’m tired of Pijamas! What Pets needs are non-juvenile models and more realistic textures.
And variety… later.

WAY OF THE SKIRMISHER: TIME IS ON MY SIDE
As skirmishers, Rangers need to maintain consistent pressure over time. Recharge traits should be key to their performance but often lack secondary “flavor” effects. This is an attempt to update or combine traits to give recharge choices more flavor. New traits filling the resulting gaps are intended to enhance Ranger effectiveness as skirmishers by making it difficult to ignore or recover from pressure applied by Ranger attacks rather than increasing their raw damage. They focus on striping or countering boons that allow the enemy to endure the Ranger’s steady assault.

Marksmanship IV: Perfect Aim (NEW) – The damage from your attacks is not reduced by protection. (fills slot vacated by Signet Mastery; coding note – equivalent to +50% damage against targets with protection)

Marksmanship IX: Mighty Signets – Activating signets grants might and signet recharge time is reduced 20%. (combines Signet Mastery & Beastmaster’s Might)

Marksmanship X: Marksman’s Speed – Longbow and short bow attacks pierce and recharge time is reduced 20%. (combines Piercing Arrows & Quickdraw)

Skirmishing VI: Hunter’s Horn (NEW) – Horn skills also randomly remove one of Retaliation/Swiftness/Vigor from up to 5 foes in range. (fills slot vacated by Agility Training)

Skirmishing X: Nature’s Venoms (NEW) – Each time you or your pet poison a foe, that foe loses regeneration. (fills slot vacated by Quickdraw)

Wilderness Survival VI: Wilderness Knowledge – Using a survival skill removes a condition from both you and your pet and survival skill recharge time is reduced by 20%.

Wilderness Survival X: Martial Mastery – Critical hits with sword, greatsword, and spear attacks apply vulnerability (3 stacks; 5 seconds duration; 5 second cooldown) and recharge time for these skills is reduced by 20%.

Beastmastery I: Speed Training – Pets move faster and their basic skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (combines Agility Training and Speed Training)

Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 600 (15 second cooldown) and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery)

Beastmastery VI: Commanding Voice – Pets gain stability for 4 seconds when you press f2 and f2 skill recharge time is reduced 20%.

Thank you for reading!

Nike.2631:

WAY OF THE SKIRMISHER: TIME IS ON MY SIDE
As skirmishers, Rangers need to maintain consistent pressure over time. Recharge traits should be key to their performance but often lack secondary “flavor” effects. This is an attempt to update or combine traits to give recharge choices more flavor. New traits filling the resulting gaps are intended to enhance Ranger effectiveness as skirmishers by making it difficult to ignore or recover from pressure applied by Ranger attacks rather than increasing their raw damage. They focus on striping or countering boons that allow the enemy to endure the Ranger’s steady assault.

Marksmanship IV: Perfect Aim (NEW) – The damage from your attacks is not reduced by protection. (fills slot vacated by Signet Mastery)

Marksmanship IX: Mighty Signets – Activating signets grants might and signet recharge time is reduced 20%. (combines Signet Mastery & Beastmaster’s Might)

Marksmanship X: Marksman’s Speed – Longbow and short bow attacks pierce and recharge time is reduced 20%. (combines Piercing Arrows & Quickdraw)

Skirmishing VI: Hunter’s Horn (NEW) – Horn skills also randomly remove one of Retaliation/Swiftness/Vigor from up to 5 foes in range. (fills slot vacated by Agility Training)

Skirmishing X: Nature’s Venoms (NEW) – Each time you or your pet poison a foe, that foe loses regeneration. (fills slot vacated by Quickdraw)

Wilderness Survival VI: Wilderness Knowledge – Using a survival skill removes a condition from both you and your pet and survival skill recharge time is reduced by 20%.

Wilderness Survival X: Martial Mastery – Critical hits with sword, greatsword, and spear attacks apply vulnerability (one stack; 5 seconds) and recharge time for these skills is reduced by 20%.

Beastmastery I: Speed Training – Pets move faster and their basic skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (combines Agility Training and Speed Training)

Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 900 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery)

Beastmastery VI: Commanding Voice – Pets gain stability for 4 seconds when you press f2 and f2 skill recharge time is reduced 20%.

Thank you for reading!

Some seriously good ideas here Nike. But one in particular deserves further attention and should be moved to the top of the ranger to do list (right below permastow).

Shouts remove stealth from nearby players. It’s an AOE reveal and I love that.

urdriel.8496:

wolfyrik.2017:

phys.7689:

Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.

theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.

If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.

Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.

Stealth is countered by AoE, engineers can utilise stealth. Engineers can also spam ‘block’ does that make block their class mechanic? Guardians have numerous sources of Swift, is Swift their class mechanic? Rangers can spam evades, are evades the ranger class mechanic?

General Feedback on the ranger skills and trait-to-skill-interaction

• The major trait subgroups (traps, signets, and spirit) feel balanced around their performance when “enhanced” by grandmaster and master traits as oppose to baseline functionality.
• Shouts on the ranger barely follow the general share mechanic for shouts.
  Guard being a glaring example of a ‘shout’ with a ground target and an activation time other than instant.
• Signets do not follow basic signet mechanics and require a grandmaster trait to have the same basic functionality as the skill group would for any other profession.

Summarizing the general issue with ranger skills, most do not work “out of the box”.

Special note needs to be mention of the survival skill subgroup as they as followed

• Hodgepodge placement of effect. leading to a feeling of scraping the cutting room floor
• Lack of any shared mechanics (we do not really see or discuss survival rangers to illustrate that point)

Survival subgroup skills may be a case of the general lack of synergy within the subgroup (combined with a low expenditure of traits point for reduce cool down) might be the strength of the subgroup granting support to builds without being the total focus.

Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Rework Opening Strike Trait as a Special Ability/Mechanics for Ranger instead of a trait

Goal of Proposal
To make Rangers weapon skills more and more useful in starting a fight

Proposal Functionality
Make this trait become a special ability to Ranger.
With this special ability, all Ranger weapon skill 1 will have a special skill when Ranger is out of combat.

Its very similar to Thief’s “Stealth Attacks”, but one is in stealth, another one is out of combat.

For example:
Sword skill 1:
Opening leap – Opening strike. Leap into the fight, crippling your foe.
Crippled: 5 s
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 600
Which can make Sword Ranger has a REAL opening strike, instead of walking slowly to reach the target.

Axes skill 1:
Cunning throw – Opening strike. Hit up to three foes with a single throw The first target is stunned, the second is Confused, and the third inflicts weakness.
Stun: 1.25 s
Confusion3: 5 s
Weakness: 5 s
Maximum targets: 3
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 900
It is not too OP for the axe weapon skill set combo with any offhand weapon.
Stun = Ranger starts the fight first instead of the foe (With triat = 2.5s)
Confusion = the second foe may not want to take risk to attack ranger
Weakness = the third foe deal less damage in this opening fight
Which can show that who is the boss in starting the fight and in skirmishing

Greatsword skill 1
Bouncing Blade – Opening strike. Throw a greatsword to a target and bounce back to you, damaging the foe and giving fury to you.
Fury: 5 s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 600
Greatsword Ranger loves fury.

Short bow skill 1
Torment Shot – Opening strike. Shoot an arrow that your foe inflicts torment.
Torment5: 5s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900
It’s more useful than vulnerability in using short bow, short bow is use for kiting.
This would be the first Ranger skill to apply torment condition.

Longbow skill 1
Penetrating Attack – Opening strike. The foe inflict vulnerability, the longer range deals the higher stacks of vulnerability.
0-500 range: Vulnerability4 : 5 s
500-1000 range: Vulnerability5 : 5 s
1000+ range: Vulnerability6 : 5 s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 1,200
No differences but added the range condition.

It will be good to interact with related traits:
Opening strike always critical hits.
Regain Opening Strike whenever you kill a foe or gain stealth.
Pets have Opening Strike. (We can also make pets to have special opening skills)

Cons:
You have to use skill 1 in order to get this opening strike benefit.

Pros:
Ranger weapons are more and more useful to start a fight.
To become a special ability, it saves 5 trait points to get the opening strike trait,
and then Ranger can spend more trait points to get the related traits.
Can fill more new useful trait in Marksmanship and Skirmishing which related to Opening strike.

Associated Risks
Need a 10s Cool Down, even if the skill hit is miss,
or it will make Ranger spamming these skills.
(Just like Thief in stealth mode and spam his skill 1 when he hits miss until he hit)

wolfyrik.2017:

urdriel.8496:

wolfyrik.2017:

phys.7689:

Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.

theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.

If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.

Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.

Stealth is countered by AoE, engineers can utilise stealth. Engineers can also spam ‘block’ does that make block their class mechanic? Guardians have numerous sources of Swift, is Swift their class mechanic? Rangers can spam evades, are evades the ranger class mechanic?

F skills are the class mechanic.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Some seriously good ideas here Nike. But one in particular deserves further attention and should be moved to the top of the ranger to do list (right below permastow).

Shouts remove stealth from nearby players. It’s an AOE reveal and I love that.

Thanks . As a multi-targeting PBAoE reveal, its actually intended to provide some counterplay to Mesmers with their multi-target invisibility effects along with providing a way to cope with having 1-3 thieves all up in your business.

Reasoning behind the other trait changes:
Perfect Aim is there to deal with Guardians and other long duration Protection builds – it doesn’t strip protection but it does let you partially ignore it (this benefit does not extend to your pet’s attacks as currently imagined).

Marksman’s Speed is a big buff to the power of Piercing Arrows, but A: piercing should be highly desirable for ranger bow attacks as it introduces a lot more mobile/dynamic play and B: its competing with Spotter for the 20/30 marksman slots, one of the best traits we have.

Hunter’s Horn gives you a bit of specialized boon removal tuned to help you deal with some of the things that will most hurt you as a skirmisher: retaliation wearing you down as you wear them down, swiftness letting them leave the party early, and vigor feeding their ability to dodge out of your attacks.

Nature’s Venoms gives a way to strip regeneration that works with a number of weapons, utilities, and pet skills, making sure that while the fight may be drawn out, it will eventually end, and likely in your favor.

Wilderness Knowledge addresses our dire lack of player-directed condition removal.

Martial Mastery gives more access to vulnerability as the fight goes on – providing condition depth and really feeding into the idea that a long fight with a ranger should favor the ranger.

Speed Training is just a simple combine that helps your pet’s autonomous behavior on several levels. A great adept-tier trait to splash if you want to treat your companion as “fire and forget”

Commanding Voice granting a bit of stability gives you a MUCH better chance of your pet actually doing what you told it to instead of being bounced around like a pinball when you needed it most.

Angela Ranna.5638:

Substance E.4852:

We already have serpent’s strike and stalkers strike that both function better as dodges. We need a gap closer on the sword.

The best option would be to reverse the order and then remove the time limit on the second skill. You can close the gap at the start and hit some nice damage and then you have a retreat skill in reserve if you need it since we don’t need to spam gap closers with the cripple on the auto.

It gives us the best of both without any sacrifice.

Well, you need some kind of limit on the second skill, otherwise you’d have to use it before being able to leap again. But I’d agree that increasing the timeout to 5-7 sec would work.

I was thinking along the lines of 20-30 seconds. Long enough to be there for a fight if and when you need it. Maybe a system that reverts it back if you leave combat so you don’t have to keep flipping around when you use it on pve overworld mobs?

Game mode: PvX

Proposal overview: Trait optimization

Goal of proposal: Placing traits in lines that make sense. Compacting some rather bland and weak traits with others.

Proposal functionality:

All traits that are strictly benefiting pet stats should be moved into the beastmastery line. This includes malicious training, compassion training, concentration training, expertise training, pet prowess and the pet speed buff.

Furthermore, 2 of each should be merged into one composite trait each aimed at buffing a single aspect of the pet.

-expertise and malicious training should be merged into a new trait called condition mastery that is primarily used for condition based pets

-compassion and concentration training should be merged into support mastery that is primarily used for support oriented pets

-pet prowess and speed buff should be merged into offense mastery that would be primarily used for physical DPS pets.

-F2 CD reduction trait and speed training should be merged into 1 trait speed training. It should affect both F2 and innate family skills by 20%

-Vigorous training and stability training should be merged into one trait. Stability training should be changed to give 3 seconds of stability in an AOE on pet swap

-Rending attacks and intimidation training should be merged into one trait. Rending attacks should proc a bleed on attack and not on crit, to allow it to work with other pets that do not have a high critical chance rate.

Risks:
It leaves the trait lines missing traits that need to be filled which would require additional work. However, if ever the aspect idea comes to life, it would be the perfect place to place aspect related traits,

wolfyrik.2017:

urdriel.8496:

wolfyrik.2017:

phys.7689:

Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.

theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.

If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.

Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.

Stealth is countered by AoE, engineers can utilise stealth. Engineers can also spam ‘block’ does that make block their class mechanic? Guardians have numerous sources of Swift, is Swift their class mechanic? Rangers can spam evades, are evades the ranger class mechanic?

Stealth is part of the Thief class mechanic because they have unique skills that deal powerful effects when used in stealth. Mesmers, Engis, and Rangers can use stealth but none of us get a special burst skill when we attack from it.

They are also the only class with light health and med armor with virtually no stability.
A thief that doesn’t spam stealth is either a very good S/P thief or a dead every other build thief.

Nike.2631:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Some seriously good ideas here Nike. But one in particular deserves further attention and should be moved to the top of the ranger to do list (right below permastow).

Shouts remove stealth from nearby players. It’s an AOE reveal and I love that.

Thanks . As a multi-targeting PBAoE reveal, its actually intended to provide some counterplay to Mesmers with their multi-target invisibility effects along with providing a way to cope with having 1-3 thieves all up in your business.

Reasoning behind the other trait changes:
Perfect Aim is there to deal with Guardians and other long duration Protection builds – it doesn’t strip protection but it does let you partially ignore it (this benefit does not extend to your pet’s attacks as currently imagined).

Marksman’s Speed is a big buff to the power of Piercing Arrows, but A: piercing should be highly desirable for ranger bow attacks as it introduces a lot more mobile/dynamic play and B: its competing with Spotter for the 20/30 marksman slots, one of the best traits we have.

Hunter’s Horn give you a bit of specialized boon removal tuned to help you deal with some of the things that will most hurt you as a skirmisher: retaliation wearing you down as you wear them down, swiftness letting them leave the party early, and vigor feeding their ability to dodge out of your attacks.

Nature’s Venoms gives a way to strip regeneration that works with a number of weapons, utilities, and pet skills, making sure that while the fight may be drawn out, it will eventually end, and likely in your favor.

Wilderness Knowledge addresses our dire lack of player-directed condition removal.

Martial Mastery give more access to vulnerability as the fight goes on – providing condition depth and really feeding into the idea that a long fight with a ranger should favor the ranger.

Speed Training is just a simple combine that helps you pet’s autonomous behavior on several levels. A great adept-tier trait to splash if you want to treat you companion as “fire and forget”

Commanding Voice granting a bit of stability gives you a MUCH better chance of you pet actually doing what you told it to instead of being bounced around like a pinball when you needed it most.

Once we are rebalanced to control 100% of our damage, the roll of the ranger will still be as an outlast class, so adding debuffing to our slot skills and weapons makes perfect sense.

But if we do more damage aren’t we a DPS class?
No, all classes do 100% damage so we’ll just be on even footing. As a medium armor class without real stealth or invulnerability, we need to counter the buffs of other classes in order to make fights last longer.

Atherakhia.4086:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Signet of the Hunt: This is a terrible signet without the trait. Even with the trait, given this class’s lack of skills to really benefit from the added damage on, it’s almost never activated. In fact, I’d wager most people activate it when they spawn because it puts the buff on you for a very long period of time, and then never use it again unless they’re lining up a maul. So not only does this signet need a trait before it’s useful… it also needs a specific weapon. Thus why I suggested changing signet of the hunt HERE.

While SotH is weaker than any of the 25% faster-run-speed-on-passive signets on other classes, compounded by the mandatory GM trait, I wouldn’t say the active is never used. The passive only gives faster run, so I (I have SotH, SoS and SotW as my default utilities along with the RaO elite) find I use it for any fight with an Elite or up as soon as it comes off cool down. You may argue that this behaviour is because rangers are so poor in burst or power, but I use it exactly for that reason. Every little bit of extra damage I can squeeze out helps. If the trait were to become standard ranger signet behaviour I would possibly look to Signet of the Locust behaviour for how to balance it—give a one-shot damage boost to the ranger, its pet and 5 nearby allies (perhaps at +25% damage for allies).

Aidenwolf.5964:

Nike.2631:

snip

Some seriously good ideas here Nike. But one in particular deserves further attention and should be moved to the top of the ranger to do list (right below permastow).

Shouts remove stealth from nearby players. It’s an AOE reveal and I love that.

I agree. I don’t really care that Rangers ought to help in the anti-stealth department (if ANet has an idea of giving them better roles, go ahead) but this is one utility that I think can be given to Rangers and it makes sense too.

I don’t even care whether it’s through the shout build or any other builds.

KyreneZA.8617:

Atherakhia.4086:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Signet of the Hunt: This is a terrible signet without the trait. Even with the trait, given this class’s lack of skills to really benefit from the added damage on, it’s almost never activated. In fact, I’d wager most people activate it when they spawn because it puts the buff on you for a very long period of time, and then never use it again unless they’re lining up a maul. So not only does this signet need a trait before it’s useful… it also needs a specific weapon. Thus why I suggested changing signet of the hunt HERE.

While SotH is weaker than any of the 25% faster-run-speed-on-passive signets on other classes, compounded by the mandatory GM trait, I wouldn’t say the active is never used. The passive only gives faster run, so I (I have SotH, SoS and SotW as my default utilities along with the RaO elite) find I use it for any fight with an Elite or up as soon as it comes off cool down. You may argue that this behaviour is because rangers are so poor in burst or power, but I use it exactly for that reason. Every little bit of extra damage I can squeeze out helps. If the trait were to become standard ranger signet behaviour I would possibly look to Signet of the Locust behaviour for how to balance it—give a one-shot damage boost to the ranger, its pet and 5 nearby allies (perhaps at +25% damage for allies).

But we aren’t a burst class. We need a more sustained damage boost. More like the thieves Assassin’s Signet that is already a bigger damage boost than our own given that we deal damage over several attacks, not just one big one.

Any weapon besides the GS will receive a bigger boost from 5 bonuses of 15 than one boost of 50 and would work better with trying to burst targets down with the 1h sword and QZ.

@Aveneo.2068:

“Coz piggie gonna get ya!”

Ok i know ppl are saying and i know Allie sayd that ranger is a sustained dmg class, but why?

If we are sustained dmg class, why do we have an opening strike, opening strike is a pure burst skill, and it gets on a whole tree line, why do we have Moment of Clarity if wer not a burst class? (cos sustained dmg are power/pre and we get this skill be going there), why do we have Remorseless then?, why do we have SotH? why do we have Quickening Zephyr? all of this are BURST skills, all of this are skills that Effect a burst dmg, why are ppl saying we are not suppose to be allowed to burst but then again we have this skills to do so in traits, but then again just only 2 burst skills on weapon, the GS and the Axe offhand?

This just make me really confusing, i do believe we are allowed to burst but wer also allowed to have sustained dmg just on what build u want and how u build your character,(like Sword ranger are perfect for sustained dmg) there is NO such think as no burst dmg cos we have the traits for it! just maybe need a little more weapons skills to make it more effected, like i sayd on my post here earlier, but we have it!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/page/58#post3750420

Thanks<3

Nike.2631:

WAY OF THE SKIRMISHER: TIME IS ON MY SIDE

Okay, this is an interesting idea, but it also. . . well, it brought something to mind. ( Link — Warning: Homestuck )

Marksmanship IV: Perfect Aim (NEW) – The damage from your attacks is not reduced by protection. (fills slot vacated by Signet Mastery; coding note – equivalent to +50% damage against targets with protection)

I don’t know if I’m keen on this being in the Adept Trait slot for being basically nullifying a common damage mitigating boon.

Marksmanship IX: Mighty Signets – Activating signets grants might and signet recharge time is reduced 20%. (combines Signet Mastery & Beastmaster’s Might)

This one being in Master rank makes me less unsure about it. And it might make us use signets more.

Marksmanship X: Marksman’s Speed – Longbow and short bow attacks pierce and recharge time is reduced 20%. (combines Piercing Arrows & Quickdraw)

Interesting, but I’m not sure if it works out for a “feel” of the trait lines so much as it is just squeezing a min/max.

Skirmishing VI: Hunter’s Horn (NEW) – Horn skills also randomly remove one of Retaliation/Swiftness/Vigor from up to 5 foes in range. (fills slot vacated by Agility Training)

Set it to remove one random Boon, why discriminate? IF that’s too powerful, cut it back to 3 targets and realize we have two horn skills we could rotate.

Skirmishing X: Nature’s Venoms (NEW) – Each time you or your pet poison a foe, that foe loses regeneration. (fills slot vacated by Quickdraw)

Can . . . can we actively target one particular Boon for one Condition? Though I’d be more interested in seeing something else here instead of this. Something on the level of Toxicity? Give Vulnerability when Poisoned?

Wilderness Survival VI: Wilderness Knowledge – Using a survival skill removes a condition from both you and your pet and survival skill recharge time is reduced by 20%.

I was going to protest but then I saw the Survival skills . . . nope, this makes Lightning Reflexes less useless when Immobilized.

Wilderness Survival X: Martial Mastery – Critical hits with sword, greatsword, and spear attacks apply vulnerability (one stack; 5 seconds) and recharge time for these skills is reduced by 20%.

“Internal cooldown of 5 seconds.”

Beastmastery I: Speed Training – Pets move faster and their basic skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (combines Agility Training and Speed Training)

Hmmm. Could be a problem if the pet skills get a face lift.

Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 900 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery)

Not sure about an Adept Trait being capable of this.

Beastmastery VI: Commanding Voice – Pets gain stability for 4 seconds when you press f2 and f2 skill recharge time is reduced 20%.

I like it.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Every class has 100% base player damage by itself, and their unique bar gives more dmg or special things.

I’m sorry, but this is extremly hypocritical. Either you include the class mechanic when talking about the base damage or you don’t. You can’t include it for the Ranger but don’t include it for other classes just because it appears to prove your point. The numbers you ar referring to would be extremly skewed and biased because you apply different measures for different classes.

While I didn’t read the original 70:30 post it quite obviously derived from a dev who said that Rangers are expected to bring some damage through their pet. But this also applies to other classes who have damaging class mechanics because the class mechanics are most likely not exlcuded when balancing their damage. Everything else does not make any sense at all. This means that the class mechanic has to be included for all Mesmers, all Warriors, at least power Necromancers, most Engineers and even situationally for Thieves. Comparing Ranger 70:30 to Warrior to 100:15(F1) is just inaccurate.

RoyalPredator.9163:

But as you see, most of us prefer Pets to don’t deal dmg that counts while Untraited for it.

I personally would not mind if the pet was gone but I don’t think it would fit the original class design. However, I’m not sure if it is true that most want the pet to be gone or to deal no damage. I know many people who love their pet. Therefore, you probably should not talk about ‘most of us’ when it just represents your point of view.

RoyalPredator.9163:

@ No CDs: Balancing Thieves are out of this topic, but this isn’t a real issue. Or at least it shouldn’t be. Problem is on AN’s side, they put up “one shot kill” skills as balance and wonder why they seem unbalanced.

If one shot skills were the issue you would not see anyone spamming skills on one target. The main problem with Initiative is that it encourages solely using your most effective skill. That is why people spam PW etc. I don’t want to see something like that because it emphasizes brainless button mashing. It might also be very difficult to balance because Rangers could also use evade spam this way. No fun for anyone besides the troll using it.

Nike.2631:

WAY OF THE SKIRMISHER: TIME IS ON MY SIDE

Marksmanship IV: Perfect Aim (NEW) – The damage from your attacks is not reduced by protection.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t know if I’m keen on this being in the Adept Trait slot for being basically nullifying a common damage mitigating boon.

Part for the charm is bypassing protection without removing it or helping your allies hit harder. It’ll be interesting to see players with protection prioritizing rangers …

Marksmanship IX: Mighty Signets – Activating signets grants might and signet recharge time is reduced 20%.

This one being in Master rank makes me less unsure about it. And it might make us use signets more.

Beastmaster’s Might is too easily skipped. Combining the two should encourage a little less passive gameplay even without the grandmaster capstone.

Marksmanship X: Marksman’s Speed – Longbow and short bow attacks pierce and recharge time is reduced 20%.

Interesting, but I’m not sure if it works out for a “feel” of the trait lines so much as it is just squeezing a min/max.

I’m want to move ‘archery’ traits out of Skirmishing (and into Marksmanship) where possible to reduce the overlap with traps. I think of those as our most iconic set-up and right now you cannot build traps/short bow because they both have Skirmishing line grandmaster traits.

Skirmishing VI: Hunter’s Horn (NEW) – Horn skills also randomly remove one of Retaliation/Swiftness/Vigor from up to 5 foes in range.

Set it to remove one random Boon, why discriminate? IF that’s too powerful, cut it back to 3 targets and realize we have two horn skills we could rotate.

The limited list is mostly because broad condition stripping is not essential to skirmishing, while a couple of boons just destroy our prospects for “witling” foes down. either way, I like making ranger traited warhorn more of an “evil twin” to warrior’s traited warhorn with its condition cleanse effect .

Skirmishing X: Nature’s Venoms (NEW) – Each time you or your pet poison a foe, that foe loses regeneration.

Can . . . can we actively target one particular Boon for one Condition? Though I’d be more interested in seeing something else here instead of this. Something on the level of Toxicity? Give Vulnerability when Poisoned?

I believe the coding is possible. And while I’m in favor of more vulnerability-application as a general ranger theme, the ability to strip regeneration is even more crucial to effective skirmishing. Once you work someone down you have to have the tools to keep them down until you actually end them. Poison already helps against direct heals, stripping regeneration is simply finishing the job.

Wilderness Survival VI: Wilderness Knowledge – Using a survival skill removes a condition from both you and your pet and survival skill recharge time is reduced by 20%.

I was going to protest but then I saw the Survival skills . . . nope, this makes Lightning Reflexes less useless when Immobilized.

As a set, Survival skills have a lot of variety and potential. Having sharpening stone be a cleanse and 5 stacks of bleed gives you a reason to hold on to it ‘til it’s needed and makes it a nice swing skill as you shed a condition and hit harder for your next 5 strikes. Plus its in scale with existing “skill type becomes cleanses” benefits.

Wilderness Survival X: Martial Mastery – Critical hits with sword, greatsword, and spear attacks apply vulnerability (one stack; 5 seconds) and recharge time for these skills is reduced by 20%.

“Internal cooldown of 5 seconds.”

Good call .

Beastmastery I: Speed Training – Pets move faster and their basic skill recharge time is reduced by 20%.

Hmmm. Could be a problem if the pet skills get a face lift.

Even if they do, 20% cooldown already exists and is lacking of flavor effect.

Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 900 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%.

Not sure about an Adept Trait being capable of this.

I’ve been thinking the range comes down. Initially I was looking to align with the axe/short bow range, but a radius of 600 will still deliver on the premise.

Beastmastery VI: Commanding Voice – Pets gain stability for 4 seconds when you press f2 and f2 skill recharge time is reduced 20%.

I like it.

I’m really pleased with that one – it would be SO NICE to be more certain my pet will actually be able to carry out my instructions…

Thanks for looking – I’m all for trimming it back anywhere and everywhere that allows the changes to deliver the cool with the minimum amount of power creep.

Arghore

U’r suggestion on Permastowing the pets and making them utility-skills….

NO thank u. That would ruin the entire class for me.

Concerning the survivability of pet in dungeon/boss fight,
it would be great if the pet dodge as you do. This makes ranger playable in dungeon like COE. In addition, it will be super cool to see my kitty dodging with me. It can also be by chance, e.g. your pet dodge with you 50% of time, and can be improved by trait. To compromise, the death penalty of pets can be increased.

And for pet controlling, i hope there is an option to control the maximum distance between you and your pet. In particular, always next to you, 300, 600, and unlimited would be great. With this, we can manage the pet without pressing F3 and F1 hundreds of times while in dungeon.

Nike.2631:

Part for the charm is bypassing protection without removing it or helping your allies hit harder. It’ll be interesting to see players with protection prioritizing rangers …

It feels like it could be difficult to include and balance. But I’d have to play with it.

Beastmaster’s Might is too easily skipped. Combining the two should encourage a little less passive gameplay even without the grandmaster capstone.

Bearing in mind I enjoy the passive of Signet of Renewal, I do agree it’s nice to have a benefit to blowing your signets.

I’m want to move ‘archery’ traits out of Skirmishing (and into Marksmanship) where possible to reduce the overlap with traps. I think of those as our most iconic set-up and right now you cannot build traps/short bow because they both have Skirmishing line grandmaster traits.

Valid point, but I think the idea was for Skirmishing to be close-range and Marksmanship to be long-range.

The limited list is mostly because broad condition stripping is not essential to skirmishing, while a couple of boons just destroy our prospects for “witling” foes down. either way, I like making ranger traited warhorn more of an “evil twin” to warrior’s traited warhorn with its condition cleanse effect .

Trait it for Fear (3s). Maybe then we can give the Juvenile Wolf a different effect?

I believe the coding is possible. And while I’m in favor of more vulnerability-application as a general ranger theme, the ability to strip regeneration is even more crucial to effective skirmishing. Once you work someone down you have to have the tools to keep them down until you actually end them. Poison already helps against direct heals, stripping regeneration is simply finishing the job.

I want less of help whittling them down and more of “no, don’t run, I’m not done with you yet”. I really do need to start experimenting with Path of Scars.

I’ve been thinking the range comes down. Initially I was looking to align with the axe/short bow range, but a radius of 600 will still deliver on the premise.

I agree. 600 range is right about what I’d want out of it.

I’m really pleased with that one – it would be SO NICE to be more certain my pet will actually be able to carry out my instructions…

I generally find they do if you’re paying attention to them. But Stability means the enemy can’t just throw a casual stun/launch their way when they see a pet winding up a skill.

Aidenwolf.5964:

wolfyrik.2017:

urdriel.8496:

wolfyrik.2017:

phys.7689:

Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.

theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.

If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.

Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.

Stealth is countered by AoE, engineers can utilise stealth. Engineers can also spam ‘block’ does that make block their class mechanic? Guardians have numerous sources of Swift, is Swift their class mechanic? Rangers can spam evades, are evades the ranger class mechanic?

F skills are the class mechanic.

is Mug Thieves mechanic ??……….

Anet have a hard time with thieves because initiative system is too powerful in the actual game environment.

kccviva.6741:

Concerning the survivability of pet in dungeon/boss fight,
it would be great if the pet dodge as you do. This makes ranger playable in dungeon like COE. In addition, it will be super cool to see my kitty dodging with me. It can also be by chance, e.g. your pet dodge with you 50% of time, and can be improved by trait. To compromise, the death penalty of pets can be increased.

And for pet controlling, i hope there is an option to control the maximum distance between you and your pet. In particular, always next to you, 300, 600, and unlimited would be great. With this, we can manage the pet without pressing F3 and F1 hundreds of times while in dungeon.

I wouldn’t mind a ‘Dodge as One’, but I’d rather want ANet to give some actual AI to the pet so it can judge for itself when to dodge that highly telegraphed attack (for instance by having its own dodge bar).

However, I disagree with “To compromise, the death penalty of pets can be increased”. Please no, we have already had too many compromises where every 5-10% buff came with a 25-50% nerf to something else.

Also; why should we be punished because some stupid AI had to die. That is why other classes hate us so much; because of our useless pet that’s dead all the time. No more compromises! If anything the death penalty should be shortened not lengthened or Rangers being given an ability with which to revive their pets when they come limping back.

I believe we are due some significant buffs and improvements without having to ‘compromise’ any longer. As far as I can see we don’t have anything left as we’re at the bottom of the barrel after all the empty promises that turned out to be either tooltip fixes, blatant nerfs or an Aquaman suit.

Frostfang.5109:

Arghore

U’r suggestion on Permastowing the pets and making them utility-skills….

NO thank u. That would ruin the entire class for me.

Then don’t stow your pet. The pet stow mechanic that is already built into the game changes the UI to remove F1-F4 completely. What is proposed is that the pet UI F1-F4 become something else when the pet is stowed, such as traps (my idea), and that the 30% base damage given to the pet be given to the ranger.

Again, if you don’t want to stow your pet, don’t. Permastow adds to the ranger if you stow, or plays exactly like what we have now if you like your ranger as it is now.

We are trying to get changes to the ranger that are both meaningful and easy to code because I for one don’t want to wait 6 months for a fix to a problem that is already 1.5 years old.

I know I am going to make myself hated, but I have a single question:
Do you care so badly about non English-speaking people that no one dare at least inform us that a CDI is running on other subforums

I mean, I barely can understand than the language makes it harder to transfer information to dev while you are doing pretty well here, but there is no way for me to understand why we don’t deserve any information at all.

I’m talking about French sub forum only:
#We were not informed at all a CDI about Ranger was running here (or an other subject by the way)

1. When we started to create something that way by our own we did not get any remarks about it
2. When the debate here came to have some clues about what is on process, we had to find that by ourself and traduce it.
3. For now we did not have any FR community manager post about Ranger CDI

So,
Don’t you really care about what European people thinks about rangers?
The Meta is slightly different on our servers than NA, don’t you think a feedback could be interesting giving a different sight of view?

Nike.2631:

Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 600 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery)

Thank you for reading!

While I do agree that we need more revealing options, your suggestion could turn out too powerful. You could reveal people up to 3 times, which is already huge. Furthermore it was been suggested multiple times, me included, that RaO and HaO should be turned also into shouts. You would be able to reveal an enemy up to 5 times, which would be all their stealth they have.
Anyways, if the devs lower the damage of the pet in order to give us our damage, the pet has to be more centered around providing support. Revealing enemies would be such a support the pet could offer.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Nike.2631:

Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 600 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery)

Thank you for reading!

While I do agree that we need more revealing options, your suggestion could turn out too powerful. You reveal people up to 3 times, which is already huge. Furthermore it was been suggested multiple times, me included, that RaO and HaO should be turned into shouts. You would be able to reveal an enemy up to 5 times, which would be all their stealth they have.
Anyways, if the devs lower the damage of the pet in order to give us our damage, the pet has to be more centered around providing support. Revealing enemies would be such a support the pet could offer.

Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 600 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery) 15 sec cd

I don’t think a perma stow mechanic would be that had to balance. By no means are these hard thought numbers, but more of an idea regarding balance:

When stowed the pet grants the ranger buffs like:
Canines – PVT
Felines – PPCond.
Birds – PVCrit

And basically have them be the equivalent values of say a level 50 masterwork item of that kind until level 80 where the stowed pet grants exotic level bonuses of those kinds.

This way the ranger that chooses to stow a pet gets some added bonus that they can make builds around, choosing 2 different pets they’d have to swap between and re-stow to get those benefits and if they run with the pet out then they don’t get those bonuses. its too early in the morning to think this one out too far beyond this one so if someone else wants to take the ball and run with it, have at.

Specific Game Mode
PvX

Proposal Overview
Useful Weapon skills, will included the pet. Atm I don’t talk about the traits

Goal of Proposal
Bit more aoe, bit more included the pet and make the weapon skills interesting without a huge dmg increase

Proposal Functionality

Shortbow
1 – Combofinisher Projectiles ( 50% …) [Gives the Name „Crossfire more sense]
3 – Increase the direct Dmg + 100% under 600 range [I pile behind, than must the SHORT shot a lot of dmg]
4 – no more bleeding on the shot only crip., +gives you 6 sek. stiffness and 6 sek Fury
5 – add 3 Stack/5s Confusion and 5 Stack/5s cofosion side/behind [In GW1 interrupt the she shot and gives a lot of daze, here interrupt and confusion]

Sword
2- 2/2 +If I jump forward I opened the hornet`s nest and deal a 120 range aoe, 3 times

Dagger
1 – gives your pet 5 sek stealth [STALKERS`s strike it calls]

Torch 1 – Add a aoe, 120 range if you hit your aim(s)

Greatsword
1 – 2/3 Slice do a quick double attack 2 x XXX dmg
2 – Add 3 stack Might for 5sek [“With the force of the bear”]
3 – Gives you and your pet 5 swiftness and 1 sek quickness. [to suit with the Egle animation]

Pet – Any trait must reduce the F2 activation time from the pets, min 50% PLS! Sometimes I need the F2 fast but 1,5sek activation time is my aim away or I don’t need to stun him if he in close-combat range.
Bit trait Beastmastery 1 and 5, reduce the recharge from “1” 10% to 20%, “5” reduce the recharge from 20% to 25%. And the spezific Pet Traits need a huge buff.

New Mechanic, if the pet die to leave a ghost of them for 4 sek. and follow me.
Bea/Drake gives allies every 2 sek. -> 2sek. Protection
Cats/Birds evers 2 sek. -> 4sek. Fury
Dogs/Pics/Moas evers 2 sek. -> 5sek. Might
Spiders/Crawler evers 2 sek. -> 4sek. Regeneration

Associated Risks
I don’t see risk, I don’t add op dmg or stack overpowered boons

Trap proposal

Remove the 1-only of each type restriction and allow traps to stack like they did in gw1. This will add a lot more flexibility in game strategy without effecting normal open flowing game-play. It will allow rangers to make a more positive contribution in preparing and planning certain dungeon phases.

oiseau.6481:

So,
Don’t you really care about what European people thinks about rangers?
The Meta is slightly different on our servers than NA, don’t you think a feedback could be interesting giving a different sight of view?

While I agree that it would have been nice to have a post regarding the CDI in the french and german subforums, I have to stop and wonder at the last part of your post.

There are a lot more countries in Europe than just France. So claiming that ANet is only interested in what NA thinks is a rather ignorant and selfcentered perspective. I’m from the Netherlands and last time I checked we are one of many countries that make up Europe.

Game Mode: WvW

Proposal overview:
Upgrade the ranger’s combat ability and pet resilience

Goal of proposal:
The goal of this proposal is to make Rangers attractive to group raids.

Functionality:
The first step in this upgrade is to deal with the ranger’s ability to survive in a large scale fight. It also deals with the pet’s survivability in a fight. The first proposal might be one that is difficult to do but should be doable.
- AOE damage taken from pets scales down based on the number of Area of Effect damage fields the pet is in above 3. If a pet is in 10 aoe fields it takes 20% of the damage would have taken before. If the pet is in 3 or fewer aoe fields it takes full damage from those fields. Cleaving weapon skills and single shot AOE fields also count towards this effect.

This proposal is to make the ranger pet not die straight up in a zerg fight but also make it possible to kill the pet for most classes whose skills are almost all AOE. I don’t want the pet to be invincible in a small skirmish. I just want it to live long enough to be useful in a zerg fight.

Now for the ranger herself:
- Signet of the Beast Master moves to Adept trait level. Predator’s Instinct moved to Grandmaster level, internal cooldown reduced from 30 seconds to 2 seconds. PI only effects ranged weapons.
The Signet of the Beast master move allows the ranger to get access to on-demand non-elite stability and other powerful defensive effects from signets without having to invest heavily into marksmanship. Moving Predator’s Instinct to Grandmaster lets it get a really low ICD, making the ranger the perfect tool for picking off a fleeing enemy.

The second functionality below is to make rangers overall more attractive.
- Sword 1h no longer has leap effect on chain 3.
- Healing spring Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds.
- Pet activated abilities (f2) override the pet’s current action. The pet does the action immediately. Pet shout style abilities effects occur instantly (mostly effects wolves and dogs). Other activated attacks are 50% faster.
- Longbow skill Barrage damage increased 50%.
- Rapid fire activates 30% faster.
- Hunter’s Shot immobilizes the target for 2 seconds.
- Sick’em now applies revealed on a stealthed enemy target within 600 unit range without having to specifically have that enemy targeted. The pet attacks the a revealed target if one is revealed. For 15 seconds while the pet attacks that target it re-applies revealed debuff. Also causes you to target that enemy.

These are a couple of upgrades that would make ranger more attractive to a raid situation.
First is that Rangers actually suffer in the category of AOE damage where other classes do not. The ranger class philosophy actually backfires against the class because AOE is king in wvw and rangers get left out. To cover this lack of AOe the longbow barrage skill does more damage, pets last longer and their aoe activated effects are nearly instant now. This will be a biggest improvement on Krytan Drakehounds and normal Wolves, whose effects are the most powerful for pvp.

Sick’em tries to hard-counter thieves and mesmers but fails at the task. This change will make rangers a hard counter to those classes stealth mechanisms. Rangers become an attractive piece to add to a GvG encounter because of that and the other longbow changes.
Hunter’s shot needs something other than stealthing the ranger. I added immobilize to it to mirror the Warrior Pin Down ability. Rapid fire needs to be more lethal so I compressed the damage delivery frame by 30%

Finally the Healing spring cooldown should be such that a ranger can provide a nearly constant water field to the group.

Risks
It seems rangers took a lot of nerfs since release. This damaged the viability of the class in WvW. I want to see some of that viability destroyed. The risk is that restoring the viability returns the reasons they got nerfed in the first place. Rangers need to have this viability back to be attractive. Their AOE needs to be a threat. Thieves need to fear them. Their pets need to last through large engagements. All of this without making them too overpowered.