Guild Wars 2

92 attempts with 4x rare80 = 18 exotic, 0 precursor

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Cowa.3421:

Hello

Confirmed Venom drop from risen acolyte. it’s not worth so much, but still…
I had 50% pirate set + 40% omnomnom berries.

Doesn’t confirm nothing. Other players dropped one too. You just was an uber extremely lucky guy.

It’s pretty clear to everyone who is laughing on this thread asking to leave the system to stay the same, RNG blablah, legendary are not for everyone are CLEARLY cheaters who got their weapon abusing of it during the exploit days, using a lv65 gold mixed with 80.
Which is kind of pathetic, and i hope Anet will fix this loottable with a WAY more rewarding system and WAY more precursors around. Precursor doesn’t means legendary for free all around. Precursor is just 1% of the final work needed to craft your weapon.

It’s actually 25%. btdubs

whilst in a party, we were discussing how often exotics dropped from forging random rares. One guy said it was a 20% chance, 5-6 from every 100 rares, another guy didn’t believe him.

So I bought 100 random rares off the tp for 14g, kept combining until I had none left

Got 6 exotics and Dawn (dawn came from a trident, warhorn and 2 spears)

Tried the day after with 300 random rares and got leaf of Kudzu

The day after, I spent my remaining money on rares (70g) and got Bard

End result: Dawn, Leaf of Kudzu Bard and 0 gold remaining

Sold dawn and Bard, crafted Kudzu with the proceeds

fellyn.5083:

Why are people so against creating a better way to get precursors? I don’t get it. It can only make the game better.

Put it this way. If there was a way to win the lottery, surefire, every single time you tried. Would you turn it down? Or would continue doing it the way it currently is where it’s just that…a lottery. And the lucky win, only?

I know which option I’d choose.

If everyone was winning the lottery. A slice of bread will be priced at 1Million dollars. Germany printed money after their defeat Ww1. Find out what happens on wiki.

Snow.5269:

I keep seeing the same arguments over & over. Anyone who opposes current design philosophy is a entitled child? You realize that many of the players who currently have legendaries bought their precursor off the TP for like……5-10g right? Now players are having to spend anywhere from 300-500g for one & that they want precursors “handed to them”. I’m sorry but how exactly are these players entitled when they have to pay 30 TIMES what you had to pay? The above poster is a prime example. Your motives couldn’t be more obvious.

Early bird gets the worm. More time = more information. More information = more ways to make money. More money inflow = higher prices because people can afford them. It’s not a beta tester’s fault or early player’s fault who took future steps into consideration before you did. Quit being jealous on what others got and you didn’t. They shouldn’t get punished for the market. Just like people who buy stocks early not knowing that the business would sky rocket and make them millionaires. Should the people blame them for making money off of that? Imho, I don’t think so, but people still do. And I feel like most of the complainers here are those people. And by all means what I’m reading is mostly jealous people who want the precursor to be handed to them when in reality it’s there and it’s attainable. All the time you have spent complaining in these forums could be spent making gold in the game to get the precursor. There is a definite way and ANET TOLD US the only thing we would need to know: “They will keep a watch on the precursor prices.” If the price of the precursor goes out of range of attainable by their standards, they will intervene. Make your money, and play the catch up game. The prices are not skyrocketing 100g per week. With HARD work and smart methods, you can catch up to the current precursor prices, because gold making far exceeds the growth rate of the precursors. Go learn some money making methods. Quit blaming early birds who bought it cheap, quit blaming exploiters, quit blaming Anet. And the people who tell me “Oh even if I had a legendary, I’d still want the system to change” speak nonsense because the system is solid for their intentions. And items do not define the player. Just because someone has a legendary doesn’t mean they are better than you or deserve it more, quit seeing it that way. It’s like saying “Man, I deserve more money than my boss because I work harder and he sits in a desk all day” or “He knew rich people to begin with, that cheater! He has it so easy, he needs to be reborn into a poor family for it to be fair to all of us!” Right. Let’s revoke everyone because you are jealous and do not want to make an effort to do things for yourself. It’s fair; because everyday I check the tp, there’s a legendary there to be bought with gold you can earn. The only thing unfair would be if no one ever got a legendary and it was not available to be bought—or if people put it at ridiculous prices; but you’d need buyers for that to work otherwise it’d go down. And Anet told us they’d watch.

Patience.

Hey I guess the Mainproblem with the legendary weapon is that there is no content at the moment witch would give sombody the right to wield a legendary weapon.

I’d like to see a skillbased legendary weapon → Clear ac with 3 ppl only.
kill several bosses / do several dungeon paths in a short time ( where you finally are forced to use your sigil powerups ect to be fast enough)
Give it a big enfight where you fight in lupi arena against several bosses from dungeons at one time or in a short timeframe. give a scaled down solo dungeon.

Somthing like this I would call legendary.

The point is that atm it’s a matter of no skill to get one just a matter of farming and I guess this is what people really accuse. Face it there are ppl who have beaten this game Pretty fast with all Dungeons and have no legendary. I would like to see a reward for those ppl who are able to play good instead of those ppl who are able to farm good.

It’s not abou complaining about the legendary it’s complaining about the fact that it’s way to easy to get it atm.

You can get a Legendary at current state without killing any enemy→ do jp for badges , stay in wvw circles to get towers ( you don’t have to kill anything for that ) search a group that rushes you threw a dungeon for 3g ( I would rush everyone threw a dungeon for this price) but as you see → 0 skill involved. and that my point→ to easy to unrewarding for ppl with skill

Dawn at 400g already.

Malediktus.9250:

Dawn at 400g already.

There I was thinking it was in my reach >_< back to the grinding stone!

Kelvingts.2035:

fellyn.5083:

Why are people so against creating a better way to get precursors? I don’t get it. It can only make the game better.

Put it this way. If there was a way to win the lottery, surefire, every single time you tried. Would you turn it down? Or would continue doing it the way it currently is where it’s just that…a lottery. And the lucky win, only?

I know which option I’d choose.

If everyone was winning the lottery. A slice of bread will be priced at 1Million dollars. Germany printed money after their defeat Ww1. Find out what happens on wiki.

Missing the point entirely. Grats.

silvermember.8941:

Didn’t you see how one of the people got mad, when someone tried to explain how independent events works? What made you think, they know math. Or another example, It’s kinda like how when the weatherman says they might be a 80% chance of raining, when it doesn’t rain people get pissed.

The point being a lot of people did not take probability and so the concept of independent events is lost on them.

People typically don’t get a good grasp of probability, though; it seems like it’s not easy to teach, especially not in high schools.

Moreover, decision-making in the face of uncertainty is different enough from the maths that you do in class that people don’t quite make the connection.
There’s good TED talks on the issue; these in particular are solid:
http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_donnelly_shows_how_stats_fool_juries.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_researches_happiness.html

Decision theory is something that can and should be taught to everyone, but it’s not easy to get people to really understand it.

Snow.5269:

Dusk @ 500g, still no response on issue…

Back down below 400, still no response needed.

It looks like both Dusk and Dawn had someone recently buy up multiple sell listings, which left only the more expensive ones remaining. I would personally expect Dawn to fall back down like Dusk already has, but admittedly such a small market can be pretty volatile.

fellyn.5083:

Kelvingts.2035:

fellyn.5083:

Why are people so against creating a better way to get precursors? I don’t get it. It can only make the game better.

Put it this way. If there was a way to win the lottery, surefire, every single time you tried. Would you turn it down? Or would continue doing it the way it currently is where it’s just that…a lottery. And the lucky win, only?

I know which option I’d choose.

If everyone was winning the lottery. A slice of bread will be priced at 1Million dollars. Germany printed money after their defeat Ww1. Find out what happens on wiki.

Missing the point entirely. Grats.

Actually Fellyn, it is you who is missing the point. He was quite on par, granted his response was simplistic in nature, but i see now you need more clarification…

If everyone ‘could’ get a legendary.. within 3 months lets say.. 2 things would happen:

1. The fact that it’s not ‘unique’ anymore, and everyone and their uncle could get one, would drastically reduce the desire to obtain it, hence devaluating the prefix ‘Legendary’, not to mention everyone who spent countless hours of grinding and farming and throwing in hundreds of gold worth into the forge would completely loose their minds and feel they wasted time and effort, some would rage quit, others would take the game less seriously.. (A-Net does not want that for obvious reasons)

2. There would be no more MF gambling, meaning no more money sink, in a matter of days the market would flood with gold, and massive inflation would ensue.

So A-Net would have 2 choices at this point:

2.1. Create a New money sink like there are in other MMO’s like a super weapon/armor which is dependent on RNG crafting (just to name an example).
And this would be another excuse for you to complain.

2.2. DRASTICALLY reduce drop rates for EVERYTHING in game, and raise vendor prices, increase waypoint traveling prices, master salvage kit at 20g, etc..

—

I hate to be blunt, and do not wish to start a flame war, but you clearly have absolutely no knowledge of economy. And in anticipation of a possible reply, you cannot compare this to ‘real world economy’ because in game, gold is generated from vendor trash, and quest completions, and gem conversion, etc.. A-Net sees the numbers on spreadsheets, how much gold is in circulation, etc.. And in the real world, money isn’t printed non-stop, it switches hands.. And you cannot have that in game, otherwise there would be a cap for progression, and you would have insane disparity between players, some rich, and many extremely poor, wearing only blue armors.

—

Having given this more thought whilst away from work and with a calm mind, this shall be my last post here trying to explain to you folks why the system is fine as it is, because I have come to the conclusion, that A-Net, at the very least in the immediate future, will NOT alter the precursor mechanic, because it is vital for the in-game economy. It is the piston of the engine, the only thing which keeps the economy in check.

(Check this out… As soon as inflation starts, on an eye-catching scale, I guarantee you A-Net will release some new really cool flashy skins, which will require some form of RNG, in order to deflate the economy.)

Ravax.1205:

fellyn.5083:

Kelvingts.2035:

fellyn.5083:

Why are people so against creating a better way to get precursors? I don’t get it. It can only make the game better.

Put it this way. If there was a way to win the lottery, surefire, every single time you tried. Would you turn it down? Or would continue doing it the way it currently is where it’s just that…a lottery. And the lucky win, only?

I know which option I’d choose.

If everyone was winning the lottery. A slice of bread will be priced at 1Million dollars. Germany printed money after their defeat Ww1. Find out what happens on wiki.

Missing the point entirely. Grats.

Actually Fellyn, it is you who is missing the point. He was quite on par, granted his response was simplistic in nature, but i see now you need more clarification…

If everyone ‘could’ get a legendary.. within 3 months lets say.. 2 things would happen:

1. The fact that it’s not ‘unique’ anymore, and everyone and their uncle could get one, would drastically reduce the desire to obtain it, hence devaluating the prefix ‘Legendary’, not to mention everyone who spent countless hours of grinding and farming and throwing in hundreds of gold worth into the forge would completely loose their minds and feel they wasted time and effort, some would rage quit, others would take the game less seriously.. (A-Net does not want that for obvious reasons)

2. There would be no more MF gambling, meaning no more money sink, in a matter of days the market would flood with gold, and massive inflation would ensue.

So A-Net would have 2 choices at this point:

2.1. Create a New money sink like there are in other MMO’s like a super weapon/armor which is dependent on RNG crafting (just to name an example).
And this would be another excuse for you to complain.

2.2. DRASTICALLY reduce drop rates for EVERYTHING in game, and raise vendor prices, increase waypoint traveling prices, master salvage kit at 20g, etc..

—

I hate to be blunt, and do not wish to start a flame war, but you clearly have absolutely no knowledge of economy. And in anticipation of a possible reply, you cannot compare this to ‘real world economy’ because in game, gold is generated from vendor trash, and quest completions, and gem conversion, etc.. A-Net sees the numbers on spreadsheets, how much gold is in circulation, etc.. And in the real world, money isn’t printed non-stop, it switches hands.. And you cannot have that in game, otherwise there would be a cap for progression, and you would have insane disparity between players, some rich, and many extremely poor, wearing only blue armors.

—

Having given this more thought whilst away from work and with a calm mind, this shall be my last post here trying to explain to you folks why the system is fine as it is, because I have come to the conclusion, that A-Net, at the very least in the immediate future, will NOT alter the precursor mechanic, because it is vital for the in-game economy. It is the piston of the engine, the only thing which keeps the economy in check.

(Check this out… As soon as inflation starts, on an eye-catching scale, I guarantee you A-Net will release some new really cool flashy skins, which will require some form of RNG, in order to deflate the economy.)

You miss the point too. Good job.

The entire point is that we want a process to get a precursor where we can visually see our progress towards getting it. No one has once asked for it to be easy to do and only people who jump in here without reading the thread think that. We just don’t want to rely on RNG to get one nor do we care about the mystic blender. That’s Anets problem to sort out and they shouldn’t have based their entire end game item hunt around it from the start.

Again, I did not create these problems. Anet did. So it’s their job to sort it out. The economy is none of my concern as well considering it’s been kittened up from day 1 anyways.

And why should it take longer than 3 months to get a legendary? “Because everyone would have one” is a stupid reason. Especially taking into consideration Anets claims that they want to take the grind out of mmos and all that. You know? Their intended design philosophies behind the game that they talk about in all their trailers?

Coupled with the fact that a lot of people who have complete legendaries got their precursors way easier than anyone can today. Yeah…3 months should be more than enough time to complete a legendary.

If you make game content that only 1% of the population of the game will ever be able to access then don’t be surprised when your population begins to evaporate like smoke in the wind and people start asking for server mergers.

RNG is just a lazy game mechanic pure and simple. I expect better from Anet. Do you?

Last sunday I did 240 rare staffs and 80 exotics with 0 precursers, I did the same stack of attempts the month before. Haven’t logged in since. I don’t think I have it in me to save up for another month and do another batch with, in all probability the same results. Just not fun losing a months work 2 months in a row and be absolutely no closer then I was 2 months ago.

I won’t be going for any of these skins for any other purpose than to amass huge amounts of in game gold. The skins bore me and/or amuse me to the point of thinking ArenaNet is trolling us with their design sans the great swords.

Off topic(kinda):

I think the really interesting thing about this thread is that EVERYONE is talking about two skins here. The Great Swords. The other legendaries are garbage and people are talking about them as a means of making money, not actually acquiring said skins and then playing the game.

I really wish that there had been some consistency in the design of these items as far as skins go. Look at the difference in prices. Why would anyone go for making any other skin rather than the great swords and then selling the pre-cursor to fund the crafting of the bows or dagger or shield etc.? This whole thing is a mess and it’s hard not to think that loophoiles were left in place for a bit so insiders could get their mitts on a pre-cursor and then anet could change the way the game was played.

I just wanted to chime in on something I noticed this morning. On Gate of Madness, last night Spark’s highest listing was 280 gold, and there were 5 total listings. This morning there is only 1 listing for Spark and its priced at 400 gold. I realize that its entirely possible 4 individuals purchased Sparks before morning but I can’t help my suspicious mind from wondering if this isn’t obvious market manipulation.

Eadren.6295:

I just wanted to chime in on something I noticed this morning. On Gate of Madness, last night Spark’s highest listing was 280 gold, and there were 5 total listings. This morning there is only 1 listing for Spark and its priced at 400 gold. I realize that its entirely possible 4 individuals purchased Sparks before morning but I can’t help my suspicious mind from wondering if this isn’t obvious market manipulation.

It’s very possible that someone or a few people have bought up the last of the stock to just relist it at a much higher price. I have been paying attention to precursor prices and it does seem like some people are doing this.

This is another reason why there should be a more definitive way of obtaining the precursor because those that are super rich can easily monopolize the precursor market as there is nothing stopping them – making it pretty darn difficult for legit players to ever get a precursor (even if you had all the other gifts)

The problem is with such a small supply and the demand being where it is – it creates an easy opportunity for the rich to buy out all precursors and relist them at rediculous prices. In this instance, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The only people that benefit from the current system are the rich. Many of the hardcore players and the ultra dedicated players get the shaft with this type of arrangement.

I wish that there was a better way…. but only Anet can decide that..

Eadren.6295:

I just wanted to chime in on something I noticed this morning. On Gate of Madness, last night Spark’s highest listing was 280 gold, and there were 5 total listings. This morning there is only 1 listing for Spark and its priced at 400 gold. I realize that its entirely possible 4 individuals purchased Sparks before morning but I can’t help my suspicious mind from wondering if this isn’t obvious market manipulation.

It doesn’t matter if it was market manipulation or just 4 people buying them. The fact that there are only 5 listed means there aren’t even remotely enough of them. Such a low supply will always be subject to instability. The fact is, legendaries as they are now can hardly be considered game content. They may as well not exist for all the benefit it brought to the game and it’s players. Maybe a few dozen people can go for it but the rest of us are pretty much cut off. It’s content we don’t get to experience because we either don’t have hours and hours of game time every day or because we’re not into hardcore TP trading. The one thing that Anet has stood for and pretty much delivered in every other aspect of the game is failing when it comes to legendaries.

And I can’t believe there’s still people who come here, skip all the 17 pages and try to “educate” us about ingame economy and how we’re just being entitled and keep bringing up the same kitten arguments that they think are so original and have never been brought up even though we adressed them about a million times now. Thank you for deciding not to post again Ravax. You contributed nothing and if you want to know why then all you have to do is go back and read the full thread because I’m getting tired of repeating myself for people like you who come along every other day beating that dead horse over and over and over.

For logging’s sake:

I’ve done over 1000 attempts with rare weapons so far (so 4000+ rares, total), and have gotten no precursor.

My total loss is roughly -20 to -60 gold, meaning I’ve made anywhere from maybe 20 to 60 gold in profit over the last three weeks (I don’t really check but I started with 20g on my alt and ended with 90g yesterday night, but I sold a few other things in the meantime).

It’s kind of boring, but I figure I’ll get one eventually.

100% agree with Archer.6485 here. It seems like nobody even bothers to read the posts in this thread before flaming ideas. Does making an alternative way of getting this, actually make these items not “legendary” any more? I mean let’s be serious, there’s a tier 2 of these legendaries with Eternity. I’m pretty sure the rest of the weapons will end up having something similar.

And this is coming from a player who has turned into a hardcore TP junky. I went from 10g investments in a couple of things and making 25+g returns. By my calculations I will have enough for a precursor at the end of this month if not sooner if my predictions about the market are correct. I could even go farm some hardcore for 2 weeks and get enough. Most of it was lucky breaks and complete market speculation and some of it was from flipping.

At the end of the day though? I feel happy I have a huge sum of cash just from investments alone and will be able to obtain the precursor soon, but I don’t really feel like I accomplished anything. I felt more accomplished getting something in Everquest that wasn’t even an epic after a long quest.

You know what made me feel like I accomplished something in this game? The mad king’s clocktower puzzle. This is the last time i’ll say this, but nobody bothers to respond to the argument of making it more about a challenge than a grind:

I want challenges like the Mag King’s Clocktower Puzzle on steroids. In fact, I want 20 of these on steroids. Followed by a gauntlet of dungeon running, slaying each world dragon 100 times, helping the Pirory investigate crazy events with awesome riddles, helping the Order of Whipsers do a ton of infiltration DEs that happen every 2-3 days, to fight with the Vigil against hordes of Branded, do 400 UNIQUE DEs in 4 weeks… most of all I want a CHALLENGE. Risk vs. Reward. That’s what I want.

And sure, make it take 3-6 months. Seriously, make these challenges so hard that it takes a LOONG time to complete. They should be difficult and they should take a long time. But what they really SHOULD be is progress oriented toward people who just want to play the game rather than grind.

As for the gold sink? Sure have it. Raise the prices of the Icy Runestones to 3g each. Guess what? That’s a pure goldsink right there. They already have a great goldsink right there.

As for the precursors? Keep them. After implementing a challenge-worthy approach to getting a precursor, lower the drop rates. This way power traders can go ahead and do it their way, whereas people who want to go on a great journey (the one they talked about in the Legendary blog post for example) can actually go on that journey rather than staying at Plinx or the TP all day.

tl;dr for the people who don’t like to read a long post: make it HARDER, add a pure goldsink elsewhere for the legendaries(like raising icy runestone prices), lower the drop rate via RNG after implementing a challenging way to PROGRESS toward the precursor, let current precursors stay for power traders.

Excellent post but like all the excellent posts in here it will likely go unread and new people will continue to post telling us how we’re doing it wrong and that the system is fine as is.

I would also like to add, for the people who worry about the mystic forge becoming useless and supposedly playing “vital” role in the economy. It won’t. There are still tons of unique weapons to get out of it. Some even rival the costs of legendaries and arguably look better (volcanus, mjolnir). But the fact that very few people even know the mystic forge exists is a problem Anet needs to address. They haven’t released even one trailer talking about it. If they did I think that would help a lot.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Recent-Market-Shifts

Guess what this means? Legendaries will become even more expensive. Ektos, t5 and t6 materials are spiking already.
So getting a precursor through mystic forge also getting more expensive.

Malediktus.9250:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Recent-Market-Shifts

Guess what this means? Legendaries will become even more expensive. Ektos, t5 and t6 materials are spiking already.
So getting a precursor through mystic forge also getting more expensive.

You are correct. Forging through the Mystic Forge with even more expensive mats just became even less desirable.

Snow.5269:

Malediktus.9250:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Recent-Market-Shifts

Guess what this means? Legendaries will become even more expensive. Ektos, t5 and t6 materials are spiking already.
So getting a precursor through mystic forge also getting more expensive.

You are correct. Forging through the Mystic Forge with even more expensive mats just became even less desirable.

I can only hope I will be able to afford this soon, grinding all day everyday and thinking I’m at least half way to being able to buy it off TP.. then watching the price jump up another 100g to 400+ is just disheartening. I’m playing catch up >_< Not sure whether to wait and see if something happens or push harder to earn the money.

Apart from occasional spikes, prices on sell orders for Dusk have been hovering at just under 400g for quite a while now, but the recent increase in material prices due to bot bannings could potentially translate into a ~30% increase in prices.

However, the probabilistic nature of precursor production makes this rather uncertain, and it could take a while for the effects to be seen; people can continue selling at prices that would be a loss on average, while on the other hand if Mystic Forging is still profitable at current material prices, the price may stay as it is.

One thing to note about these market shifts is that they also mean that you can make more gold from farming, since the stuff you farm will sell for more.

After reading all these posts, I have concluded.

I think making exotics out of rares are 20%. so there are X number of different exotics, we need 2*X/5*4 number of rares to make pre-cursors greatsword.

Warsoul.2647:

I think making exotics out of rares are 20%. so there are X number of different exotics, we need 2*X/5*4 number of rares to make pre-cursors greatsword.

That’s not true… I used to throw multiple (randomly or not) gold items in the forge and I obtained all the exotics you can get (some multiple times) and the only kind I did’nt have are the precursor exotics..

144 Lvl 75-80 Rare Rifles- Precursors: 0, 92 Lvl 75 Ecotic Rifles – Precursors: 1

Was just fooling around but I used around ~60 rare Hammers (15s each) and got the Colossus. I guess luck is on my side.

Archer.6485:

The fact that there are only 5 listed means there aren’t even remotely enough of them. Such a low supply will always be subject to instability. The fact is, legendaries as they are now can hardly be considered game content. They may as well not exist for all the benefit it brought to the game and it’s players. Maybe a few dozen people can go for it but the rest of us are pretty much cut off. It’s content we don’t get to experience because we either don’t have hours and hours of game time every day or because we’re not into hardcore TP trading.

So amid all the people saying people who just want cheaper/easier legendaries don’t really exist, we have you saying there should be more of the precursors. Which can only happen if they are cheaper or easier to obtain.

Most of us should be cut off from them, unless we put a ton of effort into it, because that’s what makes them “legendary”. If something is changed so you can make definite measurable progress toward getting a precursor, it shouldn’t simultaneously make them easier to obtain. More predictable, perhaps, but not cheaper or easier.

Hippocampus.8470:

Archer.6485:

The fact that there are only 5 listed means there aren’t even remotely enough of them. Such a low supply will always be subject to instability. The fact is, legendaries as they are now can hardly be considered game content. They may as well not exist for all the benefit it brought to the game and it’s players. Maybe a few dozen people can go for it but the rest of us are pretty much cut off. It’s content we don’t get to experience because we either don’t have hours and hours of game time every day or because we’re not into hardcore TP trading.

So amid all the people saying people who just want cheaper/easier legendaries don’t really exist, we have you saying there should be more of the precursors. Which can only happen if they are cheaper or easier to obtain.

Most of us should be cut off from them, unless we put a ton of effort into it, because that’s what makes them “legendary”. If something is changed so you can make definite measurable progress toward getting a precursor, it shouldn’t simultaneously make them easier to obtain. More predictable, perhaps, but not cheaper or easier.

You twisted my words. I said there’s not enough precursors on the TP and because of that the precursor market is unstable. This is due to the large randomness involved in obtaining a precursor.

Many people don’t want to gamble with the MF so they’re not supplying the precursors only demanding them, others are willing to gamble on them but only for themselves and if they fail, they’ll still be in demand for a precursor. This is creating a situation where the supply is far outweighing the demand.

I guess I could be more accurate and say we need more suppliers who produce these precursors either for themselves or for the rest of the market. Making them more predictable would indeed achieve that goal without making them easier or cheaper at all. To reiterate, I DON’T want easier precursors, your conclusions on that are false.

We need more precursors on the market to improve stability, yes. Right now there’s several different types of people gambling with the MF:

1. People who are putting in an investment of gold and losing it through the forge – by reforging the more expensive rares, exotics, etc

2. People who are reliably putting in an investment of gold and making a profit through the forge.

3. People who put in an investment of time and craft rares to forge (using harvested mats), and make nothing – by reforging expensive rares and exos.

4. People who put in an investment of time and craft rares to forge, and make less than they’d get from selling the mats but still make a significant amount.

5. People who put in an investment of time and craft rares to forge, and reliably make more than they’d get from selling the mats.

People in groups 1 and 3 are doing it wrong and are making a massive loss and are demoralizing themselves, and that’s the problem. The problem is they’re not putting in 20g and getting out 15g, they’re putting in 20g and getting out 15g, and instead of selling that 15g of stuff and getting another 15g worth of forges, they’re treating it as 8g worth of forges (or whatever) and then reforging it — losing 7g because they couldn’t be bothered to get the cheap forge fodder instead of the expensive stuff.

And then they’re crying on the forums about it, because that’s exactly what “I forged 400 rares and got nothing back” means, because if you forge 400 rares, you’ll get about 80 rares and 20 exos back, and trust me, those 20 exos are worth 20g minimum, assuming you don’t get anything rare or nice, and those 80 rares might be worth another 10g.

Groups 2 and 5 know things that other people don’t know, and are using a gap in knowledge to make profit but aren’t going to say how (similar to how people might be making 2-3g in a good farm spot, but they’re not going to tell you where it is). The knowledge will leak out and eventually whatever they’re doing will be common knowledge and they’ll stop doing it, but other people might start.

Groups 2 and 5 are selling the precursors they make.

Group 4, eh. They’re not going to burn themselves out as quickly playing, since they’re still making gold. And I think it’s fun to gamble and see what you get, but other people might not like it as much. But then the mats they’d have sold would have been used to create more forgefodder, so I think it evens out in the end or something.

So basically, we need more people forging efficiently, to increase supply. And fewer people burning themselves out by reforging expensive things, but I don’t really know how to convince people that they shouldn’t be forging 30s rares when they could sell it and buy two 15s rares instead.

Or Anet could…I don’t know…maybe….give people a way to get precursors that doesn’t involve RNG?

Anet created this problem by thinking it was a good idea to make RNG via the mystic forge the main way to get precursors from the start.

If they had put just a tiny bit more effort into how we get precursors we wouldn’t have this problem.

There have been lots of good idea on how to achieve that posted in this thread and others. If random people on the internet can come up with half way decent ideas then I’m sure the creators of the game can do so as well.

You mean like farming the gold needed to buy it from the TP?

Or do you mean like farming 250 charged lodestones, which is a reliable, safe way to get several MF-guaranteed-recipe exotics but that people are already complaining about not because they’re impossible to get, but because they’re very hard to get (1 per hour or so, I guess).

Or do you mean like 10,000 dungeon tokens or WvW tokens, until everyone starts saying “I don’t want to do dungeons this isn’t fair” (which I think they said when it became part of the monthly), “I don’t want to do wvw this isn’t fair” (which they say because of the monthly), or “I don’t want to farm for 200 hours for a precursor, this isn’t fair” (which they’re saying right now, but is basically ’it’s too hard’, which isn’t a valid argument).

No. I mean go back and read the through and you’ll get what we’re after. You’re just another one of the “you’re doing it wrong” crowd coming in here to tell us where we’re wrong. It’s all been said countless times and a new one of you comes in each day to repeat the same arguments.

Anet is smart. They made the game after all. I’m sure they can think of a way to do what we’re after. And if they want to keep people playing long term they are going to have to change the system. It’s as simple as that.

The mystic forge is only going to keep people playing for a limited amount of time until they become frustrated with it and the entire game and stop playing.

And you’re twisting words or being purposefully dense. People don’t want to farm cursed shore plinx event for 200 hours. Because that’s just not fun. We want to actually play the game to get our precursor, not run the same track over and over and over and over for hundreds of hours.

Mindless. Boring. Tedious. Those 3 words accurately and perfeclty describe the process to getting a precursor right now. Did you notice what’s missing? Yep…. Fun.

“We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.” – GW2 Manifesto 2010

“The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.” – GW2 Manifesto 2010

Oh, sorry, I thought people had suggested “dungeon tokens” or “wvw tokens” or “trade rares/exos for tokens” or “trade these items” as alternatives to forging a precursor and that those were being considered as viable suggestions.

Did you have a suggestion for getting a precursor that wasn’t that? I saw the “make it drop more often for ‘elite’ players (lots of time spent playing to get achievements or achievement points)” suggestion, but it seemed pretty unfair because it meant only old players would have them, and would sell them on the market at inflated prices and would just mean old players make way more gold than new players just for having old accounts.

Colbear.6425:

Oh, sorry, I thought people had suggested “dungeon tokens” or “wvw tokens” or “trade rares/exos for tokens” or “trade these items” as alternatives to forging a precursor and that those were being considered as viable suggestions.

Did you have a suggestion for getting a precursor that wasn’t that? I saw the “make it drop more often for ‘elite’ players (lots of time spent playing to get achievements or achievement points)” suggestion, but it seemed pretty unfair because it meant only old players would have them, and would sell them on the market at inflated prices and would just mean old players make way more gold than new players just for having old accounts.

Is that all you got after reading the entire thread? I’m leaning towards the you’re being purposefully dense option at this point.

Don’t take it as an insult but if that’s all you’ve come up with after reading this entire thread then something is wrong.

It’s kind of impossible to summarize all the good suggestions people have made in just this thread alone, not to mention other threads on the subject created over the last 2 months.

But if that’s all you’re gonna boil things down to..? No point in talking with you further if you can’t be bothered to actually read the thread.

Hell, I’ll make it easy for you. Just go back to page 13 and read up from there. 5 pages. Are you up to the challenge?

Dungeon tokens and whatever else are just the most basic ideas that Anet could add to the game fairly easily. Definitely not the preferred solution by most but it’s a hell of a lot better than the options we have now.

Solutions, in order, from page 13 (where “do something” is not a solution):

1. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/548836
precursors requiring the dungeon master achievement and 500+ of all tokens and have it be account bound — this is “dungeon tokens”

2. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/567081
Say every time you put 4 exotics of the same type in the mystic forge, if you dont like the result, you can challenge Zommoros to a fight. If you win Zommoros says 10 pardons for my behavior. — this is “trade rare/exos for tokens”

3. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/570439
This is “dungeon tokens and jumping puzzles” and “or trade exos for tokens”

4. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/573927
This is “make it drop more often for elite players, maybe up to a limit” (which is basically “elite players get more loot”)

5. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/579289

“Great would be to have the firsttime a Skillbased game where wealth besides trading is actually depended on your Skill? you get big award for hardmode Dungeons Like several gold ect..”

This is “make harder dungeons” and “make a jumping puzzle”, except that if you want it to still represent 150-300 hours of grinding, it’ll have to be “grind for tokens”, and if you don’t want it to be X hours of grinding, then… I guess it wouldn’t be “easier” except that I just watched a bunch of people farm the clocktower for hundreds of gold during that event, so I’d be worried it’d unbalance the economy such that “elite” players who have harder dungeons unlocked or figure out the jumping puzzle would farm it into oblivion.

5. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/580003
Fixed recipe from forge/crafting (using expensive mats), trade for tokens (dungeons, wubwub, etc), static-cost vendor (for gold), increased static income (this isn’t a different way to get a precursor, this is just “please make playing the game normally more profitable”, which they’re already working on), increase the drop rate dramatically,

6. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/583712
“No, I don’t want dungeon grinding or an expensive recipe because I don’t want to do either”

7. A lot of “something that isn’t a very low-chance RNG” but that’s not a suggestion in the way you’re talking about.

8. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/587837

“Make elite/old players get more precursors, and make them account bound”

9. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/591149

A quest chain with dungeons – possibly the only suggestion that isn’t actually bad, with the problem then being “but do the designers want the precursor to represent 150-300 hours of trying to get it”, and honestly considering how the personal storyline has been going, I don’t think it’s technically feasible, from a programming/testing standpoint. People are asking for a quick fix, not something that would take months to do (if we’re talking "make a quest chain that is worth 150-300 hours of work).

10. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/604932

100% completion of achievements. I don’t actually think this one’s a bad idea, especially if it’s max one/account, tbh, but I also think it’s way too brutal and if they implement it, they should put it in ADDITION to easier ways to get it, because 100% completion of achievements represents more than 300 hours of effort trying to get it.

11. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/605928
Something that lets you track progress — sorry but that’s really “you can buy it off the TP with banked gold”

12. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/609004
Fixed price, trade exos for tokens (by tracking uses of the MF)

13. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/619235

Fixed recipe.

14. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/623109
Easier, trade exos for tokens.

15. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/623308
Easier for elite users

16. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/624769
Fixed recipe

17. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/626181
Easier/cheaper.

18. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/631682
Easier for elite users.

19. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/632542
Fixed recipe.

20. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/633193
Fixed recipe.

21. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/633301
“Something based on skill” is not a real suggestion.

22. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/635243

Easier for elite players and account-bound so it’s harder for non-elite players. (elite = played a long time, because you get achievement points for doing your daily)

23. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/635725
Increase the drop rate and flood the TP so price goes down

24. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/643691
Make alternatives to legendaries that also look cool (a good suggestion that’s already been implemented and also isn’t about precursors)

25. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/645071

Fixed recipe.

26. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Official-Response-Drop-Rate-of-Legendary-Precursors/645113
Trade exos for tokens.

That’s four pages. Sorry, guess I’m being deliberately dense and not reading the thread because in four pages and twenty-six explicit “here’s what I suggest” suggestions, I see:

Maybe 3 options that aren’t one of the ones I already named, and of those — one is “all achievements” which doesn’t address the current “issue” because that, if anything, should be in addition to existing ways to get one, one is “make a ton of new content and in a way that’s fun and interesting and similar to the personal quest lines in scope except that those are still massively buggy”, and one is “harder dungeons/do jumping puzzles” which has no attached explanation to answer the question “if our goal is to make it take 150-300 hours of effort, how will this be 150-300 hours of effort”?

I’m curious who these elite players you keep referring to are.

You read “elite players” while I read “people who want to play the game regularly to get their precursor without doing the same mind numbing, boring, tedious, dull, and tired chain of events over and over hundreds of times for hundreds of hours on end”.

You’re just over simplifying things and twisting words to suit your argument.

Keeping it the way it is caters to maybe 1% of the player base who either play the market daily or are extremely lucky. In what way is that supposed to be fun?

Colbear.6425:

Oh, sorry, I thought people had suggested “dungeon tokens” or “wvw tokens” or “trade rares/exos for tokens” or “trade these items” as alternatives to forging a precursor and that those were being considered as viable suggestions.

Did you have a suggestion for getting a precursor that wasn’t that? I saw the “make it drop more often for ‘elite’ players (lots of time spent playing to get achievements or achievement points)” suggestion, but it seemed pretty unfair because it meant only old players would have them, and would sell them on the market at inflated prices and would just mean old players make way more gold than new players just for having old accounts.

I don’t get it. What’s wrong with ‘old players’ who have actually done as many different things in the game as possible having a better chance at a precursor? They can make precursors gained through achievements account bound to prevent selling them for gold. It certainly sounds like these players would be more deserving of going for a legendary rather than dumb luck people who had it drop on their first trip to Cursed Shore. Obviously any ‘new player’ can still gain those achievements himself. I have more gold than my friends because I’ve been playing for more hours than them. Does that make it unfair.

Also, I don’t get what your problem with suggestions on this thread is. Even if you prove beyond doubt that none of them would work (which you can’t), is that supposed to mean something? Is that supposed to convince us that there are no viable solutions out there and that the system we have now is the only option? You do realize that we’re not actually Anet’s dev team right? They can probably come up with better stuff than we can. With any luck they’re already working on something.

Elite player = “player with a lot of achievement points and/or the other gifts”. Anything tied to achievement points is going to favor players who have an old account, because you get achievement points every day and that seems kind of unfair.

I’m sorry that I didn’t say “players with a lot of achievement points or the other gifts” each time, but it’s a lot of typing.

Can you please explain what part of “I’m recording each player’s request for the last four pages” is oversimplifying or twisting words? I don’t see how you can twist “I think they should use a fixed recipe” or “I think they should give you a token or other thing that you can later trade for a precursor when you use the mystic forge”.

As I said, “right now it costs hundreds of hours of farming” — it’s not fun to farm but Anet’s actively working on making playing in varied ways more profitable so I don’t think it makes sense to say “I have to farm for 150 hours for a precursor but it’s not fun” when they’ve already said “You can do other things for 150 hours to also get a precursor, and it’ll be more fun, just give us time to implement the changes”.

You can’t just make accusations without giving evidence, that’s not very nice. You accused me of ignoring posts, and I found evidence that showed that I had, in fact, not been ignoring posts, and that a lot of posts really were “please add a fixed recipe or some other way to grind for this item”.

My question is not “is this 150 hours of farming fun” (because it’s not and they should fix it and it’s nice that they’re fixing it).

My question is “should a precursor take 150 hours of farming or other grinding, be it farming gold or grinding tokens”?

and

“If you don’t want it to take 150 hours of farming/grinding to get, how many should it take, and how does that not make it ‘easier’?”

or

“If you do want it to take 150 hours of farming/grinding to get, I don’t understand why people wouldn’t say “i have to run dungeons for 150 hours, this is unfair” or “i have to play wubwub for 150 hours, this is unfair”, so how would they make it take 150 hours and be a) feasible and b) not otherwise unfun/unfair. Especially since you can get gold doing most things in the game, whereas 150 hours of dungeons means you have to be doing dungeons."

Honestly, I just think it’s not fair to new players if only players with at least X amount of achievements can get a precursor. I don’t begrudge other players their luck, and I think that’s really mean-spirited of you to say “you were lucky, you shouldn’t have nice things”. Why can’t you just be happy for someone who has something nice happen?

Right now, a new player who is good at playing the market or who has the support of his guildmates can get a precursor and a legendary. If we change precursors to be account-bound if you trade achievement points for it, but you can still get it otherwise, sure, I don’t really see a problem with that — but then they should take 150 hours of “effort” farming achievement points, to reflect the current difficulty of getting a precursor.

But I don’t really believe that is something players are going to be okay with, because they’ve already shown they aren’t okay with having to farm.

I’m not saying that none of these things will work, exactly. I’m saying that we need to come to an agreement about how many hours of farming a precursor should be worth.

Until we do that, there’s no point in saying “they should just set a fixed recipe” because if they do that, people will complain saying it’s too boring and slow to get what they want (charged lodestones).

I think a precursor should be worth 150-300 hours of farming. As long as it’s obtainable within 150-300 hours of farming (or 300-600 hours of just playing the game casually), I don’t have a problem with the prices.

I don’t see why players shouldn’t be rewarded for other things, like having gold or having guildmates help them or being actually good at the game (I’d love for SPvP stuff to give you non-sellable PvE stuff like karma or XP or gear too).

But none of these things is a magic bullet unless we get to the heart of the matter, and the heart of the matter is not “this is RNG” and it’s not “farming is boring” and for all people say “I don’t mind something slow as long as I make progress”, they’ve proven that’s not true either because they freak out every time something takes a long time to do.

We can’t look at this “problem” from the “precursors need to have different ways to get them” approach. We have to look at them from the “if a precursor should be worth 150-300 hours of effort, are there other ways to make 150-300 hours of concerted effort return a precursor?”

And right now, gold and TP price is a unified currency that means you can get a precursor without having to only farm a dungeon or only run wubwub or only sit in Orr farming Plinx (which is a fast way to get gold, but not the only way, especially now that fine crafting mats are worth selling again).

Do you think there’s a way to “earn” a precursor that involves 150-300 hours of “work” that would easily allow for players to play in a way they prefer but will still make them slow progress towards a precursor? Because that’s what gold is, right now. Even if you like running wubwub, if you’re good enough at it to earn gold, you can slowly make progress towards a precursor.

Achievement points? The easiest way to farm that after doing your daily every day is to buy salvage items at 1 point per 100 items you salvage. Which is not really a bad thing, but again ties it to gold – to the cost of salvage items.

Your argument against players with “old accounts” makes absolutely no sense what so ever. We all started at 0 achievement points.

All achievement points mean is that someone has played the game longer than someone who doesn’t have any. That’s all. They had to work to get those points and the fact that they have them doesn’t mean a new player can’t get them, too. They are not consumable 1 time things. The only exception might be points gained from events, which at the end of the day it was like 50 points or something for the halloween event if you did everything? Not exactly a staggering amount of points at any rate.

I honestly don’t get this. How does it favor people with lots of achievement points? You’re really going to have to explain that one.

If anything it makes more sense to tie acquiring a precursor to achievement points than to have it the way it is now. Though I will say I do not like the idea of giving people a higher chance of getting a precursor with more achievement points because they can be cheesed quite easily.

And a lot of them you said favored “elite players”. And we already had that conversation. As for the rest, I’m not a game designer and I don’t claim to have good ideas and thus I haven’t suggested any. I leave that to the pros at Anet. They made this game and I’m sure anything they think up would outright trump anything the players could.

What I do know is that RNG is a lazy game mechanic and very few people actually find it fun or interesting.

Er, are we talking about the same thing?

I’m talking about “improve precursor drop rates for players with lots of achivement points”. That favors players with lots of achievement points, and the only fair way to do that would also involve making precursors accountbound. Sellable drops should never be improved by players having more achievement points (or by players having more gifts), because that’s not fair to newer players who played just as long but for fewer days, or who played 200 hours in a month versus 50 hours spread over three months.

I don’t care for that idea at all but it’s still better than what we’ve got now. I’m not seeing where the problem is? Besides the fact that the achievement system can be cheesed.

I don’t get you Colbear. You keep repeating how important it is that getting a precursor takes at leat 150-300 hours of work yet you keep saying that new players who by definition haven’t yet done the work shouldn’t be at a disadvantage against older players who have. I would preffer a system where personal work counts more than the work of a guild or a hardcore TP trader or even a gold buyer. Though I do think guilds should have their own goals to strive towards, the kind that actually benefit the entire guild not just one guy (Guild Halls maybe?) Still I don’t care if the old options remain as long as new ones are introduced. Oh and just to be clear, the achievement suggestion should be limited to unique achievements. Dailies and salvages shouldn’t count.

Don’t take this the wrong way but I’m starting to realize that it’s really hard to have a conversation with you because you can’t let go of your assumptions. You have this assumption that we don’t want to work 150-300 hours for our precursor even though we keep saying we don’t want things easier. You assume that we’ll still be complaining once they give us a fixed recipe. I guess it must seem easy to argue with us when you can just make up what our arguments are. And yes, you sound like a very reasonable person when you’re talking to your little strawmen. But you need to start looking at what we’re saying instead of just guessing what we really want and what we’ll actually do once we get it. And then you’ll realize that if you’re not against introducing different (non rng) methods of obtaining a precursor than we’re already on the same side.

Archer.6485:

Eadren.6295:

I just wanted to chime in on something I noticed this morning. On Gate of Madness, last night Spark’s highest listing was 280 gold, and there were 5 total listings. This morning there is only 1 listing for Spark and its priced at 400 gold. I realize that its entirely possible 4 individuals purchased Sparks before morning but I can’t help my suspicious mind from wondering if this isn’t obvious market manipulation.

It doesn’t matter if it was market manipulation or just 4 people buying them. The fact that there are only 5 listed means there aren’t even remotely enough of them. Such a low supply will always be subject to instability. The fact is, legendaries as they are now can hardly be considered game content. They may as well not exist for all the benefit it brought to the game and it’s players. Maybe a few dozen people can go for it but the rest of us are pretty much cut off. It’s content we don’t get to experience because we either don’t have hours and hours of game time every day or because we’re not into hardcore TP trading. The one thing that Anet has stood for and pretty much delivered in every other aspect of the game is failing when it comes to legendaries.

And I can’t believe there’s still people who come here, skip all the 17 pages and try to “educate” us about ingame economy and how we’re just being entitled and keep bringing up the same kitten arguments that they think are so original and have never been brought up even though we adressed them about a million times now. Thank you for deciding not to post again Ravax. You contributed nothing and if you want to know why then all you have to do is go back and read the full thread because I’m getting tired of repeating myself for people like you who come along every other day beating that dead horse over and over and over.

You also dont get it. These weapons, these LEGENDARY weapons are called this way for a good reason. Only FEW players in the world should have them, even if the most rich, or luckyest ones!

Infact I saw about 10 players myself on my server having legendary is making me wonder, how many players will have them in 2 months? 5% population, 20%? Who knows, but thats not how it should be, if you ask me.

You just cant complain that only the richest, luckiest, etc people have the legendaries, that the rest of us is cut off. Cause thats the whole point of legendaries.

How many people do have Bugatti Veyron ? Do you think its 5%, 10% of world population? I think its about 0,0001 … That makes this car LEGENDARY.

I dont have legendary and I am not even close to finishing it, but I dont need to come here and complain.
——————————————————————————————————————————
All you do here is just trying to throw ideas and call Areanet dumb and lazy for what they have done, for rng, high prices, etc etc. But all they do and they ve done has good reasoning and they are educated people and company and I am 100% sure, none of you knows more them they do. They have numbers, statiscitc, etc. What you have? Nothing .. just assumptions.
Let arenet monitore this problem, discuss and decide whats is the best for the game, company and for the us. I really dont want any of you decide about this anyway

By the way. They are already making something about bots, prices .. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Recent-Market-Shifts/first

Be patient

It’s important that either a suggestion follow the initial “vision” the devs had OR gives an argument why it should be changed. If we want to have a conversation about “should precursors cost 150-300 hours of farming”, that’s one thing. If we want to have a conversation about “the RNG is unfair and here’s a solution that won’t fundamentally change how hard precursors are”, then we have to temporarily agree that “precursors should, for the sake of this conversation, cost 150-300 hours of farming”.

I personally think precursors should cost 50-100 hours of farming and maybe 100-200 hours on top of that to get a legendary. In fact, I would really like to have an interesting conversation with people about whether or not they should be fundamentally easier to get, and why/why not, or whether there’d be a viable way to convert the 150-300 hours of farming to 200-350 hours of playtime (such as by making everything you do be more comparable income-wise to farming Orr). More solo events in random areas would be nice, since events are worth 250 in lowlevel places and 350 in Orr, when you’re level 80, which means it’s 2/3 of the reward and if we made say, events spawn more often, that’d be kinda neat.

But I can’t say “take the RNG factor out of precursors and also let’s use this way to get them that’s coincidentally only going to take half as long” because then I’m trying to make two different arguments about two different things.

Does that make sense? It’s why “make precursors drop more often” is a different argument from “make precursors buyable with skill points” even though both of those are “solutions” to the “precursor problem”.

Also I think people don’t like expensive fixed recipes because everyone’s freaking out about the fixed recipes of named exotics costing hundreds of lodestones that are going for 1.5-2.5g each right now.

Have people changed their mind on that? I’ll be happy to revert my stance on that if you can show instances where people are satisfied with slow-but-steady progress on things, such as expensive lodestones or dungeon sets.

(Except that dungeon sets actually got changed to be easier to get because they reward 60 tokens for the first run now, instead of making you have to grind them at 20 tokens/run over and over. Which I agree with and think makes it more fun, but was definitely devs deciding to make something take less time because people didn’t want to farm for a long time to get what they wanted).

silleh.7682:

Yeah because a car really is legendary… So far this quest for a legendary seems to be a never ending farm fest of Cursed Shore or luck fest, TRUELY, LEGENDARY.

So working every day for 10-20-30 years is also trully legendary ?
You know, have the opportunity to gain earn money (2 mil euros) is also about luck, You need the contracts, promotions, benefits and you also need to work 10000000x harder than in any game out there.

And yet there are still thousand of people doing 100x less work then you and they have 100x more money than you. The world we are living is NOT FAIR and the LUCK is kitten big factor.

We are not talking about they way of obtaining things, but about the actual things. Usually the ’’way’’ of obtaining really valuable things are full of obstructions and its pain, but when you get there, you have kitten good feeling of satisfaction.
You are like every other second person, you see what you want to see, and just ignore the other things.

I still think that only 1% of player base should have legendary at max. If 10% have them, they loose the value and prestigue. (btw I dont have legendary)

By the way, if you want to argue with me, do that, I dont really care… I just feel sorry for you, for those who feel that its unfair how things are hard, about luck, etc.

I believe Areanet knows what to do and I hope they do the right thing for the game, for us and company. Whatever that might be.