Do you think Raids in GW2 were a bad idea?
In pve, yes. But in other game mode, it would be logical to have it.
None, there doesn’t need to be any, some exclusivity in a game isnt a bad thing. if everyone can just get it by grinding theres no point.
The point is to have them. If you eventually have them, then point accomplished.
In pve, yes. But in other game mode, it would be logical to have it.
Why should PvE players be left out, but PvP or WvW players get a glide path?
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Why should PvE players be left out, but PvP or WvW players get a glide path?
Raids are PvE content.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
None, there doesn’t need to be any, some exclusivity in a game isnt a bad thing. if everyone can just get it by grinding theres no point.
The point is to have them. If you eventually have them, then point accomplished.
In pve, yes. But in other game mode, it would be logical to have it.
Why should PvE players be left out, but PvP or WvW players get a glide path?
PVE players are not left out. Raids are pve content. It just happens you don’t like this content, that’s all.
Raids are PvE content.
Raids are raids. They are at least as different from standard PvE content as PvP and WvW are from each others. The point is, they need a method fo PvE-only players to earn them that don’t involve going into hard mode raids.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
They are at least as different from standard PvE content as PvP and WvW are from each others.
wat
The point is, they need a method fo PvE-only players to earn them that don’t involve going into hard mode raids.
let’s leave the unsupported argument for now, i want to get back to “raids are not pve”
Nalhadia – Kaineng
Raids are PvE content.
Raids are raids. They are at least as different from standard PvE content as PvP and WvW are from each others
pve: player versus environment.
Raid: player versus environment.
So…i don’t know what I can add…
I’m fine with difficulty teirs so long as kills in easy mode do not count towards unlocking the legendary armor.
Then what PvE method would you prefer for earning Legendary armor outside of raids?
None. Raids are the way to earn legendary armor. If you don’t raid then you don’t deserve it.
If they want to implement a different skin legendary armor in another game mode that would be fine. They could make the Glorious extra shiny super mode PvP armor legendary, or they could make a different skin for WvW somehow and that would be fine.
Of course that will never happen in a million years. They can’t even deliver the legendary equipment we already paid for, they certainly don’t have the resources to make an entire set of legendary armor.
And I’m fine with that, so long as you don’t try to use it as a reason to restrict rewards from people who want them.
If a player chooses not to try the content to get the appropriate reward, it is not a restriction on the content but something the player chooses for themselves. You can stop twisting this on the content and look at the player for this fault.
The best thing Arenanet can do with such a diverse playerbase with different interests is make similar rewards available across different content types, put Legendary Armor outside raids, maybe even add another Legendary Backpack somewhere other than Fractals and SPvP.
Finally, and this is important:
The systems I favor would keep players coming back MORE than any other, since it would take as long, or longer, to earn anything, but they could do so playing whatever content they prefer, rather than feeling like they have to be doing X or Y or else they are wasting their time. Players should not feel led around the node by whatever rewards are assigned to specific content. They should choose content entirely based on what they want to do with their time, and then rewards should flow appropriately from that choice.
There would still be carrots, you could just choose where you get those carrots.
That is unfortunately not how carrot on a stick works (Although to be fair we all haven’t been using the idiom correctly since it relates to never actually delivering the reward at the end, GW2 does since we get a reward for doing unique content).
You certainly won’t convince players to play the content they might enjoy if there’s an easier route to it. A raider will absolutely put raids on the last of his priority list if it turns out gathering mats for crafting is easier, WvWers will likely play WvW but get disgusted about how little or no progress they are getting for so and so reward when something easier is out there. Players will leave due to the imbalance of rewards, it is the eternal struggle between setting up a big enough carrot at one end and ensuring the path of least resistance is not remotely impactful enough to take.
I believe your reward structure would be terrific for the short-term, and eventually kill off GW2 permanently in the not-too-immediate future if implemented today, given how easily it would hemorrhage players who simply hate how they have no real reason to play a game-mode without a true carrot if everything can be earned everywhere else. Because once again, MMO reward structure is not the same as every other game genre out there.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
wat
Think about it. What is WvW? It’s essentially “open world PvP,” just on a different map than core Tyria. It’s PvP, with dozens of people in zergs, just as open world PvE is “PvE with dozens of people in zergs”.
What is sPvP? It’s instanced PvP, essentially the dungeon to WvW’s open world. But both are essentially PvP, they are your character trying to beat other characters. Similarly, there are a lot of things that are outside both WvW and PvP that get lumped together as “all PvE,” but really things like dungeons/fractals/raids are as distinct from open world PvE as sPvP is from WvW, so there’s plenty of justification for player who want rewards from open world PvE but do not want to have to go into hard-grouped instanced content to get them.
I’m just really tiered of people saying “raid should be the only way to get them from PvE, but they can have alternate ways for WvW or PvP players to get them,” when really, if you looked at various groups of players, players who enjoy raiding are actually more likely to already be WvWing and PvPing than the PvEers who don’t like raiding, because raiding and PvPing are both more “high challenge” type content. It’s solving a problem that doesn’t actually exist, rather than the one that actually does.
None. Raids are the way to earn legendary armor. If you don’t raid then you don’t deserve it.
Why not? Because ANet chose to put Legendary Armor in raids? They could just as easilly choose to put them elsewhere. There is nothing about raids that makes the people who do them inherently more deserving of anything, it’s just a type of content that some people enjoy and some people don’t.
Of course that will never happen in a million years. They can’t even deliver the legendary equipment we already paid for, they certainly don’t have the resources to make an entire set of legendary armor.
And this is why the argument is spurious, they aren’t going to implement alternate sets, so the discussion has to shift to how to deliver this set to as many people as want it.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
If a player chooses not to try the content to get the appropriate reward, it is not a restriction on the content but something the player chooses for themselves. You can stop twisting this on the content and look at the player for this fault.
No, that’s just silly. You guys are making a very self-serving argument here because the content that gives the reward is content you happen to enjoy. If content is unenjoyable, then the game developer shouldn’t WANT players to be playing it, because that ultimately erodes the playerbase. They should be encouraging players to enjoy themselves, nothing more. There is no such thing as an “appropriate” reward, it is entirely subjective and arbitrary. ANet has currently chosen to attach Legendary Armor to raids, that does not make it “appropriate” that they are attached to raids, it’s just the current happenstance.
The best thing Arenanet can do with such a diverse playerbase with different interests is make similar rewards available across different content types, put Legendary Armor outside raids, maybe even add another Legendary Backpack somewhere other than Fractals and SPvP.
The best thing they can do is make the rewards available where the players want them to be. There is nothing to be gained by restricting rewards behind tens of hours of content that most people do not want to participate in. Even if they did have different models for all possible game types, which we all know they do not have the time to implement, that still leaves people who want a particular model out of luck if the method assigned for attaining it is not something they’re willing to able to do. Nobody wins from that, so why do it? Why not just leave multiple method for ALL rewards, so that players can freely choose which method fits them best?
You certainly won’t convince players to play the content they might enjoy if there’s an easier route to it. A raider will absolutely put raids on the last of his priority list if it turns out gathering mats for crafting is easier,
You can’t let them get too far out of balance, but at the same time, so long as rewards are reasonably balanced, people will take the path they prefer. I mean, Silverwaste farming is generally considered the best way to make gold, and yet people still spend plenty of time in other zones, because you can earn gold in those places too and it’s generally more interesting.
If “gathering mats” would take three times as long, but far less engagement than running raids, and a “raider” still gathers mats anyway, then he was clearly never a raider in the first place, he was just a “chaser of raid loot who apparently couldn’t give two kittens about actual raid gameplay.”
Players will leave due to the imbalance of rewards, it is the eternal struggle between setting up a big enough carrot at one end and ensuring the path of least resistance is not remotely impactful enough to take.
True, and balance of rewards is very important, but nobody is questioning that.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Think about it. What is WvW? It’s essentially “open world PvP,” just on a different map than core Tyria. It’s PvP, with dozens of people in zergs, just as open world PvE is “PvE with dozens of people in zergs”.
The distinction to make is between sPvP and WvW, not between PvP and WvW. PvP is an abbreviation for the sake of everyone’s blatant hatred of the letter s.
What is sPvP? It’s instanced PvP, essentially the dungeon to WvW’s open world.
A dungeon which disables your gear, has balancing specifications that are completely different from WvW, overrides your elite specialization unlocks, disables your masteries, has a completely different reward schema, unique rewards, and has relevant tournaments currently running. And that ANet specifically considers to be a completely seperate avenue of play since some of their earliest press releases.
Yes, it’s completely identical to WvW. Except for all the things that make it completely different.
really, if you looked at various groups of players, players who enjoy raiding are actually more likely to already be WvWing and PvPing than the PvEers who don’t like raiding
[citation needed]
because raiding and PvPing are both more “high challenge” type content. It’s solving a problem that doesn’t actually exist, rather than the one that actually does.
That problem being what? “I can’t get legendary armor without putting in some effort”?
You guys are making a very self-serving argument here because the content that gives the reward is content you happen to enjoy.
You’re in such an immaculate glass house. Please keep your stone throwing to a minimum
Nalhadia – Kaineng
(edited by Sarrs.4831)
The distinction to make is between sPvP and WvW, not between PvP and WvW. PvP is an abbreviation for the sake of everyone’s blatant hatred of the letter s.
Right, but my point is that they are both just PvP, in exactly the same way that open world and raids are both “just” PvE, so lumping all PvE content into a single mass is just arbitrary, when most people already make a distinction between WvW and sPvP.
A dungeon which disables your gear, has balancing specifications that are completely different from WvW, overrides your elite specialization unlocks, disables your masteries, has a completely different reward schema, unique rewards, and has relevant tournaments currently running.
Yes, it’s completely identical to WvW. Except for all the things that make it completely different.
Exactly. It’s the same basic content, just with some slightly different rules in place, just like a raid.
[citation needed]
Not really. “Citation wanted,” perhaps. Good luck with that.
That problem being what? “I can’t get legendary armor without putting in some effort”?
No, the problem being “I can’t get legendary armor without playing a lot of hard mode raiding, which I don’t enjoy."
“Effort” really isn’t at issue here.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Right, but my point is that they are both just PvP, in exactly the same way that open world and raids are both “just” PvE, so lumping all PvE content into a single mass is just arbitrary, when most people already make a distinction between WvW and sPvP.
And my point is that people make that distinction because while they may both be PvP modes, they’re explicitly designed to have radically different structures that meaningfully set them apart.
If you want to make some distinctions between “regular PvE” and raids, be my guest. I think you won’t find very many beyond “it needs 10 people” and “it has legendary armor”.
Exactly. It’s the same basic content, just with some slightly different rules in place, just like a raid.
You have a capacity for ignoring people that I find truly admirable.
Not really. “Citation wanted,” perhaps. Good luck with that.
You want to make a sweeping generalization with dubious basis in fact, you’re gonna need to provide some evidence if you expect the point to be uncontested.
No, the problem being “I can’t get legendary armor without playing a lot of hard mode raiding, which I don’t enjoy."
“Effort” really isn’t at issue here.
Oh, my mistake. “I can’t get legendary armor in the exact convenient way I like it”.
I’d like legendary armor for erping in salma district. I’ve put in the hours, I’m ready for my loot.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
No, the problem being “I can’t get legendary armor without playing a lot of hard mode raiding, which I don’t enjoy."
“Effort” really isn’t at issue here.
I don’t see the problem. I want the legendary pvp backpiece, but i hate pvp. So, I don’t pvp and I accept that i won’t have it (and btw i know à lot of raiders who dislike pvp and WvW, so stop assuming things pls)
Your problem is that you absolutly want the armor, but absolutly don’t want to work for it (your easy mode is a joke compared to normal raid).
Really, the only effort (for you) is that you’re willing to put 3 more times even if the easy mode is so easy that everyone could beat it. Pls, if you want to talk about balance reward, then try at least to keep the ratio skill / Risk / reward identical. No Risk, no reward. Little Risk, little skill, then little reward.
(edited by Hypairion.9210)
Raids are PvE content.
Raids are raids. They are at least as different from standard PvE content as PvP and WvW are from each others
pve: player versus environment.
Raid: player versus environment.
So…i don’t know what I can add…
By that argument WvW and sPvP (i’m 99% sure when Ohoni said PvP he meant sPvP mode) are the same content also (being PvP, and all that). And yet somehow it doesn’t stop them from being treated completely different.
when really, if you looked at various groups of players, players who enjoy raiding are actually more likely to already be WvWing and PvPing than the PvEers who don’t like raiding, because raiding and PvPing are both more “high challenge” type content.
You’d be surprised. Lot of people that want to show off and prove they’re better play Raids, and promote them as the challenging content, because they aren’t that good in PvP. There’s a reason why raids put far more insistence on gear, organization, time investment and precise repetition of patterns than on individual skill. And WvW as it is now is definitely right out, because it doesn’t really allow the individuals to shine (or at least pretend to shine).
None. Raids are the way to earn legendary armor. If you don’t raid then you don’t deserve it.
If you raid, you don’t “deserve” it either. You get it because that’s the current decision of Anet, nothing more. There’s no “deserving” or “being worth” the reward.
If they want to implement a different skin legendary armor in another game mode that would be fine. They could make the Glorious extra shiny super mode PvP armor legendary, or they could make a different skin for WvW somehow and that would be fine.
Of course that will never happen in a million years. They can’t even deliver the legendary equipment we already paid for, they certainly don’t have the resources to make an entire set of legendary armor.
Yes. That’s exactly why people are asking for this armor to be more widely available, instead of asking for a second set. The latter is much less realistic a goal.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Player versus Environment (usually abbreviated as PvE) refers to the combat and activities in the game which are not focused on competing against other players to succeed. PvE content is designed to be completed cooperatively with other players or as a solo player, so if combat is involved it is against computer controlled enemies.
World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map
Structured PvP is a Player versus Player mode which allows competition on an even footing.
In raids you play in a group and fight computer controlled bosses. Raids = PvE.
By that argument WvW and sPvP (i’m 99% sure when Ohoni said PvP he meant sPvP mode) are the same content also (being PvP, and all that). And yet somehow it doesn’t stop them from being treated completely different.
If we’re gonna take the “raids is to pve as WvW to PvP” assessment seriously; really, once you look at the reality of the game, it’s completely off-base.
The key differences between Raids and its closest cousin in PvE, dungeons, are the player cap, the general tuning, the rewards and developer support. Its closest actively supported cousin, Fractals, adds the fractal scaling (which is having serious issues at the moment) and Agony to that list.
WvW/sPvP’s differences include but are not limited to complete gear restructuring, reward restructuring, different objectives, different active game times, guild upgrades, core systems including masteries being different or disabled, and what was that other thing I listed. I’m sure there was another. It’ll come to me.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
And my point is that people make that distinction because while they may both be PvP modes, they’re explicitly designed to have radically different structures that meaningfully set them apart.
And if the same weren’t true of raids then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
You have a capacity for ignoring people that I find truly admirable.
Thank you.
You want to make a sweeping generalization with dubious basis in fact, you’re gonna need to provide some evidence if you expect the point to be uncontested.
I don’t believe there’s any way to avoid being contested.
Oh, my mistake. “I can’t get legendary armor in the exact convenient way I like it”.
Closer to the mark, but maybe you should just avoid paraphrasing and quote directly, as that’s more likely to be accurate. It doesn’t have to be the “exact” convenient way that I like, but it does have to provide more options than just “one specific way that I find terribly inconvenient.”
I don’t see the problem. I want the legendary pvp backpiece, but i hate pvp. So, I don’t pvp and I accept that i won’t have it (and btw i know à lot of raiders who dislike pvp and WvW, so stop assuming things pls)
But you accepting that fact does not mean that anyone else has to accept it, or that they should not fight for access to the rewards they would like. Not everyone is a quitter.
Your problem is that you absolutly want the armor, but absolutly don’t want to work for it (your easy mode is a joke compared to normal raid).
And I’ll reiterate that I’m absolutely willing to work for it, I just absolutely won’t work for it in the current raid set-up, because I find that sort of gameplay experience to be abominable.
Really, the only effort (for you) is that you’re willing to put 3 more times even if the easy mode is so easy that everyone could beat it.
I’m a bit flexible on the “3 times” thing, that’s the number I think is fair for the difficulty level I have in mind (which always seems to be higher than the difficulty you guys project onto me). If it turns out easier than I have in mind, it may require more repetitions. As I mentioned earlier, perhaps they could make it a much lower payout on a daily, rather than weekly lockout, so that a player would need to run the easy raid almost daily to make even a third of what a player could make running the harder mode once weekly. If it’s kept as a weekly thing, I don’t like the idea of it taking much more than three times as long, because then it just goes into a year or more of hitting the raid once a week, which is just too long term for such minimal interaction.
Again, not averse to effort, I just want to put that effort into something enjoyable, just like you.
The key differences between Raids and its closest cousin in PvE, dungeons, are the player cap, the general tuning, the rewards and developer support. Its closest actively supported cousin, Fractals, adds the fractal scaling (which is having serious issues at the moment) and Agony to that list.
I’m putting raids, fractals, and dungeons into the “sPvP” PvP bucket, the “instanced small group content” bucket, when compared to the Open World PvE/WvW side, the “large scale, large map, large number of players” options. Raids are just another version of dungeons just as Sronghold is another version of sPvP, but both are within the “small group instanced” content branch rather than the “open world content” branch.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I’m putting raids, fractals, and dungeons into the “sPvP” PvP bucket, the “instanced small group content” bucket, when compared to the Open World PvE/WvW side, the “large scale, large map, large number of players” options. Raids are just another version of dungeons just as Sronghold is another version of sPvP, but both are within the “small group instanced” content branch rather than the “open world content” branch.
A more useful distinction but until they start turning off your gear in dungeons/fracs/raids I’m not gonna have much love for this (raids=/=pve)=(spvp=/=wvw) assertion.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
But you accepting that fact does not mean that anyone else has to accept it, or that they should not fight for access to the rewards they would like. Not everyone is a quitter.
Pretty ironic coming from someone who is refusing to adapt, learn, and work but instead prefer the content to be tunned down for him. I guess we’re Lucky not all people are as selfish as you…
And I’ll reiterate that I’m absolutely willing to work for it, I just absolutely won’t work for it in the current raid set-up, because I find that sort of gameplay experience to be abominable.
So, don’t do it, deal with it. Gosh, so many greedy people in this game, that want all and won’t stop until they have all…
I’m a bit flexible on the “3 times” thing, that’s the number I think is fair for the difficulty level I have in mind (which always seems to be higher than the difficulty you guys project onto me). If it turns out easier than I have in mind, it may require more repetitions. As I mentioned earlier, perhaps they could make it a much lower payout on a daily, rather than weekly lockout, so that a player would need to run the easy raid almost daily to make even a third of what a player could make running the harder mode once weekly. If it’s kept as a weekly thing, I don’t like the idea of it taking much more than three times as long, because then it just goes into a year or more of hitting the raid once a week, which is just too long term for such minimal interaction.
.
You want easy mode and same reward as normal mode, but now you’re afraid it could take too long ? Then do it the normal way, that’s all…no need to have a daily cap in easy mode whereas there is a weekly cap in normal mode
(edited by Hypairion.9210)
wat
Think about it. What is WvW? It’s essentially “open world PvP,” just on a different map than core Tyria. It’s PvP, with dozens of people in zergs, just as open world PvE is “PvE with dozens of people in zergs”.
What is sPvP? It’s instanced PvP, essentially the dungeon to WvW’s open world. But both are essentially PvP, they are your character trying to beat other characters. Similarly, there are a lot of things that are outside both WvW and PvP that get lumped together as “all PvE,” but really things like dungeons/fractals/raids are as distinct from open world PvE as sPvP is from WvW, so there’s plenty of justification for player who want rewards from open world PvE but do not want to have to go into hard-grouped instanced content to get them.
I’m just really tiered of people saying “raid should be the only way to get them from PvE, but they can have alternate ways for WvW or PvP players to get them,” when really, if you looked at various groups of players, players who enjoy raiding are actually more likely to already be WvWing and PvPing than the PvEers who don’t like raiding, because raiding and PvPing are both more “high challenge” type content. It’s solving a problem that doesn’t actually exist, rather than the one that actually does.
None. Raids are the way to earn legendary armor. If you don’t raid then you don’t deserve it.
Why not? Because ANet chose to put Legendary Armor in raids? They could just as easilly choose to put them elsewhere. There is nothing about raids that makes the people who do them inherently more deserving of anything, it’s just a type of content that some people enjoy and some people don’t.
Of course that will never happen in a million years. They can’t even deliver the legendary equipment we already paid for, they certainly don’t have the resources to make an entire set of legendary armor.
And this is why the argument is spurious, they aren’t going to implement alternate sets, so the discussion has to shift to how to deliver this set to as many people as want it.
How on earth is WvW and pve raiding the same? Have you ever done either of those 2. That was all I needed to confirm what I thought about you (nothing rude but the fact you are a casual). WvW players look forward to reset on Fridays, PvErs look forward to resets on Monday.
RP enthusiast
I’d be fine with legendary armor outside of raids (in PvE) if that took far more time than a good raid group would need. Seems a rather unlikely scenario to me.
Pretty sure there will be multiple ways to gain legendary armor some of which will probably require far less effort than raiding.
Seems a pretty obvious choice to ArenaNet considering how the majority of players is complaining about it.
Also, it is so strange how much it bothers people to not be able to gain even one reward in this game.
(edited by Henry.5713)
Seems a pretty obvious choice to ArenaNet considering how the majority of players is complaining about it.
Hard to call it a majority when it’s the same 3 people.
It’s also hard to take those same 3 people remotely seriously after a post like the following. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/SAB-Dailies-ramping/
As if the already easy mode wasn’t easy enough, they still complain.
Also, it is so strange how much it bothers people to not be able to gain even one reward in this game.
I agree on that, though I’ve not seen many complaints about glorious hero armor…. which was a reward for those who dedicate enough to one game mode so that they can be high ranked….
At least raids are not limited in time and everyone will ultimately succeed … and get the legendary armor.
Maybe in the future, if they are happy with how you get those legendary stuff through Fractal, PvP and soonish WvW tournaments (speculations here ofc) they will think about other methods of earning them.
But one also has to take economics of the game into accounts, because easy legendary armor will affect material prices strongly. Nobody will make any ascended anymore so they have to be extremely careful on this. They are already by locking it into a collection and hence not letting players have one of each type.
In the end locking this special type of armor behind a high gap of challenge is a good thing because it only means it will be slowly introduced into the game so that they have enough time to evaluate its impact on many other aspects.
None. Raids are the way to earn legendary armor. If you don’t raid then you don’t deserve it.
If you raid, you don’t “deserve” it either. You get it because that’s the current decision of Anet, nothing more. There’s no “deserving” or “being worth” the reward.
I will get legendary armor because I am willing to work for it. Therefore I deserve it. You are not willing to do the work, therefore you will not get it. You do not deserve it.
That’s pretty much all there is to it. Fairly simple and straight forward.
Even if Anet does release another method in PvE for getting it, most of the people will still not get it and will still complain about it…. why? because they aren’t willing to do the work, that is the whole problem to begin with. Raids are just like any other PvE content, if you aren’t willing to do them now then you probably aren’t going to do them with the other method either, it would be a waste of Anets time.
Yeah guys the pvp backpack is too exclusive, I should be able to get it by only doing raids and open world events because I don’t enjoy pvp.
And the fractal backpack? I should be able to get it by doing wvw and dungeon paths.
You see the problem with your argument here now? All games need exclusive rewards in different aspects or no one is going to do them. 99% of people running fractals are only doing it for the rewards. You think anyone likes running swamp 3 times a day?
Games need exclusive content in area’s of the game. Sorry you can’t just go out and buy your legendary so you can act cool ith no effort, that’s not what any of the new legendary items are about since the release of HOT because it’s an issue they wanted to address. And so they have and they have done it well. Don’t enjoy raiding? don’t do it, but also don’t expect the exclusive raid rewards because that’s not how gaming works.
I will get legendary armor because I am willing to work for it. Therefore I deserve it. You are not willing to do the work, therefore you will not get it. You do not deserve it.
Nope. You will get the armor because you happen to like the content they were released it (or at least do not dislike it too strongly). I will not get the armor because i happen to hate that kind of content. Liking one kind of gameplay over another however does not make you any more deserving of those rewards.
Raids are just like any other PvE content
If that was true, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Yeah guys the pvp backpack is too exclusive, I should be able to get it by only doing raids and open world events because I don’t enjoy pvp.
And the fractal backpack? I should be able to get it by doing wvw and dungeon paths.
You see the problem with your argument here now?
No. If you really think that way (instead of trying to troll the thread) then you have every right to ask for this to be implemented, and i won’t be arguing against you.
All games need exclusive rewards in different aspects or no one is going to do them. 99% of people running fractals are only doing it for the rewards. You think anyone likes running swamp 3 times a day?
You think anyone’s doing triple swamp for the exclusive rewards?
Sorry you can’t just go out and buy your legendary so you can act cool ith no effort
Nobody’s asking for that. It’s just some people that claim that only effort they approve counts.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
I will get legendary armor because I am willing to work for it. Therefore I deserve it. You are not willing to do the work, therefore you will not get it. You do not deserve it.
Nope. You will get the armor because you happen to like the content they were released it (or at least do not dislike it too strongly). I will not get the armor because i happen to hate that kind of content. Liking one kind of gameplay over another however does not make you any more deserving of those rewards.
Raids are just like any other PvE content
If that was true, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Yeah guys the pvp backpack is too exclusive, I should be able to get it by only doing raids and open world events because I don’t enjoy pvp.
And the fractal backpack? I should be able to get it by doing wvw and dungeon paths.
You see the problem with your argument here now?
No. If you really think that way (instead of trying to troll the thread) then you have every right to ask for this to be implemented, and i won’t be arguing against you.
All games need exclusive rewards in different aspects or no one is going to do them. 99% of people running fractals are only doing it for the rewards. You think anyone likes running swamp 3 times a day?
You think anyone’s doing triple swamp for the exclusive rewards?
Sorry you can’t just go out and buy your legendary so you can act cool ith no effort
Nobody’s asking for that. It’s just some people that claim that only effort they approve counts.
The one to rule is bringing your argument to its logical conclusion: that all forms of exclusive rewards should be achievable in any game mode. At the risk of strawmanning, I don’t think most players agree with this statement, and its inconsistent with rewards generally in gw2 (and definitely HOT).
You seem to take issue with the word “deserve.” How about: a reward corresponding to a certain type and level of content? In this case, raiders oppose legendary armor for easy mode raids, because it wouldn’t correspond to raid-type content, and it wouldn’t correspond to the amount of effort necessary to complete raids.
All game modes have exclusive rewards. Take the map verdant brink. It’s the only way to get bladed armor, and requires tier 4 completion. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
The one to rule is bringing your argument to its logical conclusion: that all forms of exclusive rewards should be achievable in any game mode.
Good. He is free to pursue that idea – i’m certainly not going to dissuade him.
You seem to take issue with the word “deserve.” How about: a reward corresponding to a certain type and level of content? In this case, raiders oppose legendary armor for easy mode raids, because it wouldn’t correspond to raid-type content, and it wouldn’t correspond to the amount of effort necessary to complete raids.
And I disagree, because the reason why it’s assigned to raids is completely arbitrary and has noithing to do with raids themselves.
Anet could as easily place that armor behind HoT metas and only new skins behind raids, for example, and it wouldn’t correspond to it (and the effort) any more or less than in the current situation.
All game modes have exclusive rewards. Take the map verdant brink. It’s the only way to get bladed armor, and requires tier 4 completion. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
Oh, there’s a lot of things wrong with requiring tier 4 for chest piece (one of which is that doing tier 4 succesfully requires a lot of players, which will not always be something you can depend on on that map. It’s already becoming a problem). All the other pieces you can relatively easily farm for.
Also, based on info we’ve got, Anet is already revamping HoT maps to be more accessible.
There’s also a big difference between locking out a skin, and a whole gear tier.
So, not a great example.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
There’s also a big difference between locking out a skin, and a whole gear tier.
So, not a great example.
It’s actually a perfectly fine example as legendary armor aside from stat swapping which is a moot point anyway is nothing more than a glorfied skin. It being purple doesn’t change the fact that the stats are the exact same as ascended.
The one to rule is bringing your argument to its logical conclusion: that all forms of exclusive rewards should be achievable in any game mode.
Good. He is free to pursue that idea – i’m certainly not going to dissuade him.
You seem to take issue with the word “deserve.” How about: a reward corresponding to a certain type and level of content? In this case, raiders oppose legendary armor for easy mode raids, because it wouldn’t correspond to raid-type content, and it wouldn’t correspond to the amount of effort necessary to complete raids.
And I disagree, because the reason why it’s assigned to raids is completely arbitrary and has noithing to do with raids themselves.
Anet could as easily place that armor behind HoT metas and only new skins behind raids, for example, and it wouldn’t correspond to it (and the effort) any more or less than in the current situation.All game modes have exclusive rewards. Take the map verdant brink. It’s the only way to get bladed armor, and requires tier 4 completion. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
Oh, there’s a lot of things wrong with requiring tier 4 for chest piece (one of which is that doing tier 4 succesfully requires a lot of players, which will not always be something you can depend on on that map. It’s already becoming a problem). All the other pieces you can relatively easily farm for.
Also, based on info we’ve got, Anet is already revamping HoT maps to be more accessible.
There’s also a big difference between locking out a skin, and a whole gear tier.
So, not a great example.
Just to narrow the argument, are you against raid rewards because they award exclusive skins, legendary armor, or both?
As to exclusive skins – I really don’t see the argument here, as every game mode has them, and skins are cosmetic only. Skins can have value because they look cool, they are rarely dropped, or because it requires some effort to achieve (or a combination of these factors). Basically any skin not sellable on the tp has some degree of exclusivity. Here is a (non-exhaustive) list of examples:
Dungeon skins (dungeons/pvp), glorious armor (pvp), original and golden fractal skins (fractals), a certain story skin from HOT (story), HOT legendary weapons (HOT map metas), legendary pvp backpiece (pvp), legendary fractal backpiece (eventually fotm), king toad and storm wizard skins (tribulation SAB), specialization weapon skins (HOT pve), ambrite weapons (dry top/pvp), luminescent armor (silverwastes) …
And so many others.
As to legendary armor. There is a whole other thread about this, but it boils down to: All the HOT legendaries are gated behind certain content (as they are not sellable on the tp), ascended gear is much cheaper, we don’t know what the skin will look like (but see skin argument above), stat changing is not cost effective because you still need to change sigils and you could’ve made multiple ascended or exotic sets for a fraction of the cost.
A more useful distinction but until they start turning off your gear in dungeons/fracs/raids I’m not gonna have much love for this (raids=/=pve)=(spvp=/=wvw) assertion.
Be that as it may, it doesn’t prevent it from being true.
So, don’t do it, deal with it. Gosh, so many greedy people in this game, that want all and won’t stop until they have all…
Yes! We have spirit, yes we do, we have spirit, how ’bout you?! Never give up!
How on earth is WvW and pve raiding the same? Have you ever done either of those 2.
In the exact same way that raiding and open world content are the same. Have you ever done either of those 2?
I will get legendary armor because I am willing to work for it. Therefore I deserve it. You are not willing to do the work, therefore you will not get it. You do not deserve it.
No, you will get Legendary armor because you already enjoy the thing they happened to lock it behind. I will not get it under the current systems because I do not enjoy that content. That is the way it is, but don’t pretend that it is the way it has to be, or should be. It happens to work out for you, but that does not make it fair. It can be made better.
Yeah guys the pvp backpack is too exclusive, I should be able to get it by only doing raids and open world events because I don’t enjoy pvp.
And the fractal backpack? I should be able to get it by doing wvw and dungeon paths.
Sure, why not?
You see the problem with your argument here now? All games need exclusive rewards in different aspects or no one is going to do them. 99% of people running fractals are only doing it for the rewards. You think anyone likes running swamp 3 times a day?
If they don’t enjoy it then they shouldn’t be doing it. Only a broken loot system encourages people to do content that they aren’t enjoying. If they don’t enjoy running swamp three times a day then ANet should make changes that would allow them to get the same benefits from something they enjoy more, nobody benefits from them running content they are not enjoying.
All game modes have exclusive rewards. Take the map verdant brink. It’s the only way to get bladed armor, and requires tier 4 completion. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
1. That’s a thematic association. 2. Only some of the pieces require T4, not all. 3. Getting T4 on the map is relatively easy, all you need to do is find a map that is devoted to that task (I had all three and a spare done by the end of the first couple weeks). Of course, point 3 is harder now that the content has gone a bit stale, but that’s a flaw in their design that they are hopefully working to fix, not something everyone should just accept as “the way things are and will ever be.”
If you can get all Legendary pieces except the chest without beating any of the raid bosses, and beating the raid bosses is made as easy as getting T4 on VB, then you’ll have a point, but otherwise you’re just throwing chaff.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I will get legendary armor because I am willing to work for it. Therefore I deserve it. You are not willing to do the work, therefore you will not get it. You do not deserve it.
No, you will get Legendary armor because you already enjoy the thing they happened to lock it behind. I will not get it under the current systems because I do not enjoy that content.
No one ever said anything about him enjoying it. He said he’s willing to work for it. You are not. How much you like the content is 100% irrelevant; you don’t have to like something to do it.
That is the way it is, but don’t pretend that it is the way it has to be, or should be. It happens to work out for you, but that does not make it fair. It can be made better.
Having to run content to earn rewards for that content is exactly how it is and how it should be. It’s also completely fair; everyone has the opportunity to run the exact same content to get the exact same rewards, which is again exactly how it should be.
I don’t particularly like sPvP in this game, although I’ve done it in the past, so I don’t do it. That means I can’t get the sPvP legendary backpiece. Perfect, that’s exactly how it should be.
Yeah guys the pvp backpack is too exclusive, I should be able to get it by only doing raids and open world events because I don’t enjoy pvp.
And the fractal backpack? I should be able to get it by doing wvw and dungeon paths.
Sure, why not?
Lmfao
If they don’t enjoy it then they shouldn’t be doing it. Only a broken loot system encourages people to do content that they aren’t enjoying.
If they don’t want to do the content then they don’t deserve the rewards for the content. The loot system works perfectly; there are different incentives to do different pieces of content.
If they don’t enjoy running swamp three times a day then ANet should make changes that would allow them to get the same benefits from something they enjoy more, nobody benefits from them running content they are not enjoying.
What an asinine example. The system to get the same benefits is running 3 nonswamp fractals. Wow, that was difficult.
In general, no, every reward shouldn’t be available for doing anything.
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Yes! We have spirit, yes we do, we have spirit, how ’bout you?! Never give up!
so much energy wasted instead of doing something usefull like learning the raid, your class, your rotation…
No, you will get Legendary armor because you already enjoy the thing they happened to lock it behind. I will not get it under the current systems because I do not enjoy that content. That is the way it is, but don’t pretend that it is the way it has to be, or should be. It happens to work out for you, but that does not make it fair. It can be made better.
you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all. And since it’s Anet decision, i guess they were thinking that legendary armors were a proper reward for challenging pve content, aka raid, and that people who mastered raid would deserve legendary armor. How is it unfair? we play the same game after all. The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward. Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
No one ever said anything about him enjoying it. He said he’s willing to work for it. You are not. How much you like the content is 100% irrelevant; you don’t have to like something to do it.
But if I don’t do it then I won’t get the reward that I want, so whether or not I enjoy the content is VERY important. The point is, there is no virtue in doing content that you are not enjoying. If a reward that you want is locked behind content that you do not enjoy, that doesn’t mean that there are no options other than to not enjoy yourself or to never get that thing you want, there ARE other options, one of which is to ask for a change to the game that eliminates the need to choose between the least of two evils.
It’s also completely fair; everyone has the opportunity to run the exact same content to get the exact same rewards, which is again exactly how it should be.
That does not make it “fair,” because some people are more willing and/or able to run specific content than others. If you have a group of ten people, and five of them love chocolate ice cream and the other five love vanilla, and you offer a badge to whoever eats a gallon of vanilla ice cream, that is not a fair situation for those who prefer chocolate, even if they do have the option of pursuing that goal anyway, they will not enjoy it as much as the other group.
The fair situation is the one that addresses the fact that everyone’s tastes and capabilities are different, and makes rewards available accordingly.
I don’t particularly like sPvP in this game, although I’ve done it in the past, so I don’t do it. That means I can’t get the sPvP legendary backpiece. Perfect, that’s exactly how it should be.
If you want to give up like that, I can’t stop you, but don’t try to make it out like that’s how it has to be. If you really want the PvP backpiece, and really don’t enjoy PvP, then there should be alternatives so you can earn it without having to do something you don’t enjoy.
If they don’t want to do the content then they don’t deserve the rewards for the content.
No, the two have nothing to do with each other. Nobody deserves anything in the game, they are either given it, or they aren’t.
What an asinine example. The system to get the same benefits is running 3 nonswamp fractals. Wow, that was difficult.
And yet there is a reason why people run three swamp fractals anyway, which from what I gather is that they get the same rewards as running three other fractals for doing less actual work. Now at least fractal runners have an option, which people who don’t like raids do not, but it could be better. They could do a better job of balancing the rewards between Fractals so that you could run Swamp three times a day, but would make less than running, say, Cliffside three times a day, so that you could choose the easiest path or the shortest path, but no path would be the “best” path that does all the things at once.
so much energy wasted instead of doing something usefull like learning the raid, your class, your rotation…
Yes, because I wouldn’t enjoy doing that. I’ve explained this too many times for you to claim ignorance.
you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all.
Yes, because I do not enjoy raid, and never will, so it would not make sense for me to waste my time doing raids in their current form.
The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward.
That’s a biased distortion of the fact. The actual fact is that some people enjoy the process of raiding, enjoy challenging themselves against difficulty content, failing numerous times, and eventually coming out on top of it. These people get to engage in content that they enjoy AND get a shiny prize at the end of the process. Then there are other people who genuinely do not enjoy this process, and who would find it torturous, so they would be left with only two bad options, engage content that they would hate from start to finish, or never get the thing that they want, and neither of those options would benefit anyone.
Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
It’s a game, neither player is more or less deserving than the other, so long as they’re having fun.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
But if I don’t do it then I won’t get the reward that I want, so whether or not I enjoy the content is VERY important.
So you’re entitled to the rewards, even if you don’t want to do the content for those rewards? How is that fair in the slightest?
The point is, there is no virtue in doing content that you are not enjoying.
The virtue is getting the reward you want.
there ARE other options, one of which is to ask for a change to the game that eliminates the need to choose between the least of two evils.
And continuously make a fool of yourself, apparently.
That does not make it “fair,” because some people are more willing and/or able to run specific content than others. If you have a group of ten people, and five of them love chocolate ice cream and the other five love vanilla, and you offer a badge to whoever eats a gallon of vanilla ice cream, that is not a fair situation for those who prefer chocolate, even if they do have the option of pursuing that goal anyway, they will not enjoy it as much as the other group.
Yet the group who likes chocolate ice cream have loads of different chocolate ice cream eating contests they can do to get all kinds of different badges.
And don’t make this out to be what it’s not; you’re asking for a contest where people have to eat a quart of ice cream yet still get the same badge for the people who eat the gallon. You’re not asking for a different contest.
Most people are fine with there being a different contest, as long as it’s similar in difficulty, such as having to eat a gallon of chocolate ice cream.
The fair situation is the one that addresses the fact that everyone’s tastes and capabilities are different, and makes rewards available accordingly.
That’s literally exactly how it works right now.
If you want to give up like that, I can’t stop you
So I should start whining that I can’t get the PvP backpiece from doing dungeons on the forums?
but don’t try to make it out like that’s how it has to be. If you really want the PvP backpiece, and really don’t enjoy PvP, then there should be alternatives so you can earn it without having to do something you don’t enjoy.
Why? The PvP backpiece is a reward for doing PvP. There’s no reason why it should be rewarded for doing things that aren’t PvP. There are all kinds of alternative backpieces that can be used; I just have to go do PvP if I want to earn the PvP one. Exactly how it should be.
No, the two have nothing to do with each other. Nobody deserves anything in the game, they are either given it, or they aren’t.
What? People who do the necessary content deserve the reward for the content. People who run dungeons deserve- and have earned- the tokens to get their dungeon armor if that’s what they’re after. No one is “given” stuff anywhere; everyone has the exact same chance to do the same content and earn the same rewards (with the exception of time limited stuff, but that’s a different case).[/quote]
They could do a better job of balancing the rewards between Fractals so that you could run Swamp three times a day, but would make less than running, say, Cliffside three times a day, so that you could choose the easiest path or the shortest path, but no path would be the “best” path that does all the things at once.
Personally I don’t like the current daily rewards setup and would prefer a per fractal reward setup, but that’s not relevant here.
Yes, because I do not enjoy raid, and never will, so it would not make sense for me to waste my time doing raids in their current form.
Yet if you do it and earn the reward you want, it wasn’t time wasted; you got what you wanted.
Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
It’s a game, neither player is more or less deserving than the other, so long as they’re having fun.
“I enjoy running AC. I should be able to get Storm Wizard weapons for doing so, since I have fun running AC.”
Except no I shouldn’t, because that’s ridiculous; removing the rewards for certain content and making it possible for anyone to get them by doing much easier or completely irrelevant content would completely ruin the game. Someone who actually puts in the effort to get the rewards deserves them. Someone who doesn’t, doesn’t deserve the rewards. This has been explained too many times for you to claim ignorance.
HAF 912 | i7-3770k @ 4.5 GHz | MSI GTX 1070 GAMING 8GB | Gigabyte Z77X-D3H
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MX Brown Quickfire XT | Commander Shaussman [AGNY]- Fort Aspenwood
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MX Brown Quickfire XT | Commander Shaussman [AGNY]- Fort Aspenwood
(edited by Fermi.2409)
Man I should be rewarded with PvP legendary backpiece + legendary armor doing what I enjoy which is easy mode AFK-ing in DR since this game is marketed on play how you want. I just want to be able to work hard for and earn my legendary stuff by AFK-ing in DR rather than have to deal with the filthy elitist raiders. While you’re at it, I also want all the SAB skins too, for free, by AFK-ing in DR because that’s only fair.
/s
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
There’s also a big difference between locking out a skin, and a whole gear tier.
So, not a great example.
It’s actually a perfectly fine example as legendary armor aside from stat swapping which is a moot point anyway is nothing more than a glorfied skin. It being purple doesn’t change the fact that the stats are the exact same as ascended.
Anet listen to this guy just put in som random asended armor into the raid as reward and add legendary armor as drop anywere its just a purple glorified skin with same stats anyway-
Man I should be rewarded with PvP legendary backpiece + legendary armor doing what I enjoy which is easy mode AFK-ing in DR since this game is marketed on play how you want. I just want to be able to work hard for and earn my legendary stuff by AFK-ing in DR rather than have to deal with the filthy elitist raiders. While you’re at it, I also want all the SAB skins too, for free, by AFK-ing in DR because that’s only fair.
/s
Sure go for it man since you will only be afking in DR you wont have any use for them anyway. Ofcourse getting them the easy way they will be locked to account your ok with that right?
So you’re entitled to the rewards, even if you don’t want to do the content for those rewards? How is that fair in the slightest?
So you feel that you’re entitled to the rewards just because they are attached to content that you’d enjoy doing regardless of the rewards, how is that fair in the slightest? The fact is nobody is any more entitled to rewards than anyone else, they are just gifts given out by ANet when people jump through hoops ANet arbitrarily establishes. It’s not like doing real world work where people accomplish tasks because those tasks need doing and actually improve society around them.
A ditch-digger isn’t paid because he spent time and effort digging a ditch, he gets paid because a ditch needed digging and he got it done. If there was no need for a ditch and he dug one anyway because he just liked digging ditches, he would not get paid for that.
The virtue is getting the reward you want.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Yet the group who likes chocolate ice cream have loads of different chocolate ice cream eating contests they can do to get all kinds of different badges.
Yes, but to bring it back to the game, those “badges” are not fungible. It’s all subjective, and a given player might prefer one “badge” to another. If the “badges” available for eating vanilla are more favorable to people who prefer eating chocolate, then it doesn’t matter in the slightest how many “badges” they can earn from eating chocolate, the problem remains that the ones they WANT are available only through other means.
And don’t make this out to be what it’s not; you’re asking for a contest where people have to eat a quart of ice cream yet still get the same badge for the people who eat the gallon. You’re not asking for a different contest.
Nope. That’s what you all keep insisting I’m asking for, but it’s not what I’m actually asking for. I’m asking to put in the SAME amount of work, just in the form of lower intensity effort over a longer period of time rather than higher intensity over shorter time. I’m talking a 10K walk over several days rather than a 10K run over a couple hours, but it’s still crossing 10K either way.
So I should start whining that I can’t get the PvP backpiece from doing dungeons on the forums?
If you like. I’ve done so before.
Why? The PvP backpiece is a reward for doing PvP. There’s no reason why it should be rewarded for doing things that aren’t PvP.
Why not? That argument doesn’t make any sense. There’s nothing inherently “PvP” about it beyond that ANet arbitrarily assigned it to PvP. Your argument would only make sense if you could reasonable poll 100 PvP players and 100 PvE players, and said “do you like the look of those wings?” And most of the PvPers said “yeah!” and most of the PvEers said “no,” THEN and only then could you say that they are “PvP wings” because clearly for some reason people who like PvP liek them way more than people who don’t.
In the real world, however, in whcih PvE and PvP players are likely to like/dislike the wings in equal numbers, you cannot rationally claim that they are “PvP wings,” they are just “wings, which happen to be currently earned in PvP activities.”
There are all kinds of alternative backpieces that can be used; I just have to go do PvP if I want to earn the PvP one. Exactly how it should be.
And yet if the PvP wings are the one that you want, then you have no other options, which is the problem.
Personally I don’t like the current daily rewards setup and would prefer a per fractal reward setup, but that’s not relevant here.
So don’t point to a broken system as an example of how things work. We both agree that broken system are bad and should be avoided.
Yet if you do it and earn the reward you want, it wasn’t time wasted; you got what you wanted.
But in exchange I spent dozens of hours of my life doing things that I do not enjoy, which is a negative gameplay experience. There is no benefit to anyone to force a choice between spending dozens of hours on an unenjoyable task, OR never getting a desired goal. There should be an alternative that would allow you to earn the desired goal doing something you actually enjoy.
“I enjoy running AC. I should be able to get Storm Wizard weapons for doing so, since I have fun running AC.”
Sure, why not? If you can earn AC tokens from running AC, why can’t you work towards Storm Wizard weapons from running AC? And likewise, if you can earn Storm Wizard weapons from SAB, why can’t you earn AC tokens from it if you already have all the SAB skins you want?
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all. And since it’s Anet decision, i guess they were thinking that legendary armors were a proper reward for challenging pve content, aka raid, and that people who mastered raid would deserve legendary armor. How is it unfair? we play the same game after all. The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward. Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
Here you really lost me.
GW2 is a game. Not a exercise, not a job, not a sports club. A game. I said it when the fractal backpiece was introduced for Fractals only, I said it when the backpiece for PvP was announced, I said it for legendary armor:
Gating content behind game modes is plain and simple wrong and bad for the game. It breeds exactly the discussions we are having here right now.
I know that many people think that people are looking up with envy and want on your efforts, but I stand on the firm believe that nobody remembers the name of your toon after he has passed them in Lions arch with your Eternal title and your grinded Astralaria. So the number of people that maybe care for that is in your closest group, aka your raiding team and your guild, and a few people that write you PMs about how that looks on you.
Regarding the question who deserves content X more, I would be with you if this was one of the activities I mentioned above, aka work, sport, exercise. I believe that first and foremost effort and dedication by playing the game should be rewarded in a game, not skill or reflexes and effort for builds which is a non-game activity anyway in my mind. Skills and reflexes should net you more, but a less skilled person should not be forced to go out emptyhanded off anything.
tl:dr Gating is wrong, and nobody cares if you have the Eternal title or Astralaria.
you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all. And since it’s Anet decision, i guess they were thinking that legendary armors were a proper reward for challenging pve content, aka raid, and that people who mastered raid would deserve legendary armor. How is it unfair? we play the same game after all. The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward. Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
Here you really lost me.
GW2 is a game. Not a exercise, not a job, not a sports club. A game. I said it when the fractal backpiece was introduced for Fractals only, I said it when the backpiece for PvP was announced, I said it for legendary armor:
Gating content behind game modes is plain and simple wrong and bad for the game. It breeds exactly the discussions we are having here right now.I know that many people think that people are looking up with envy and want on your efforts, but I stand on the firm believe that nobody remembers the name of your toon after he has passed them in Lions arch with your Eternal title and your grinded Astralaria. So the number of people that maybe care for that is in your closest group, aka your raiding team and your guild, and a few people that write you PMs about how that looks on you.
Regarding the question who deserves content X more, I would be with you if this was one of the activities I mentioned above, aka work, sport, exercise. I believe that first and foremost effort and dedication by playing the game should be rewarded in a game, not skill or reflexes and effort for builds which is a non-game activity anyway in my mind. Skills and reflexes should net you more, but a less skilled person should not be forced to go out emptyhanded off anything.
tl:dr Gating is wrong, and nobody cares if you have the Eternal title or Astralaria.
Great post better then I could have said it mate.
If nobody cares then i don’t see why you have to complain about it. Obviously you care or you wouldn’t complain right?
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
A stranger usually does not cares for your prestige. I would not know a single person of the ones I argue here with because I don´walk through lions arch or whereever and look who has the shiniest shinies, not to speak of how shallow that prestige is when people already buy their way into raids or the megaraiders already do it with less people or in green stuff or something like that. That is my opinion and observation and not a complain. If you have done/possess all the above mentioned, good for you.
I really don´t understand your reasoning here, fishball.
I also don´t care how hardcore or well designed GW2 raids are. They could be the best invention since the wheel and I would have no interest in that questions.
I care for the reward and it´s accesibility.
If nobody cares then i don’t see why you have to complain about it. Obviously you care or you wouldn’t complain right?
You’re misplacing. Say you have a suit of legendary armor on. Nobody cares about you. Nobody cares that you have it, except maybe yourself. If people are impressed, they are not impressed with you or your efforts, they are impressed with the efforts of the game designer who designed that armor.
The only time anyone is impressed with a player due to what they have on, is when they coordinate their own armor well, matching random pieces in a pleasing manner with a clean color pallet, because that expresses the player’s design skill, rather than the developer’s. If you’re just wearing a full set of Legendary Armor, the Ascension wings, and an HoT Legendary weapon, nobody else cares, at most you are a mannequin.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Here you really lost me.
GW2 is a game. Not a exercise, not a job, not a sports club. A game. I said it when the fractal backpiece was introduced for Fractals only, I said it when the backpiece for PvP was announced, I said it for legendary armor:
Gating content behind game modes is plain and simple wrong and bad for the game. It breeds exactly the discussions we are having here right now.I know that many people think that people are looking up with envy and want on your efforts, but I stand on the firm believe that nobody remembers the name of your toon after he has passed them in Lions arch with your Eternal title and your grinded Astralaria. So the number of people that maybe care for that is in your closest group, aka your raiding team and your guild, and a few people that write you PMs about how that looks on you.
Regarding the question who deserves content X more, I would be with you if this was one of the activities I mentioned above, aka work, sport, exercise. I believe that first and foremost effort and dedication by playing the game should be rewarded in a game, not skill or reflexes and effort for builds which is a non-game activity anyway in my mind. Skills and reflexes should net you more, but a less skilled person should not be forced to go out emptyhanded off anything.
tl:dr Gating is wrong, and nobody cares if you have the Eternal title or Astralaria.
I had to respond to this, it was so amazingly well said.
But it also hits very close to home. We know that Anet canceled production of the HoT legendary, which were content gated, and, it was not because they lacked the staff, as there were no major downsizing. They have the ability to do it, but have chosen not to. Much in the same way Legendary Armor is still on the first collection, the Fractal Back Item is dead ended right now.
Just can’t shake the feeling that maybe Anet realized that you’re right, that gating is wrong, but is not sure what their next move needs to be to correct their current set up.
Just a thought I had inspired by your great post!
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all. And since it’s Anet decision, i guess they were thinking that legendary armors were a proper reward for challenging pve content, aka raid, and that people who mastered raid would deserve legendary armor. How is it unfair? we play the same game after all. The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward. Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…
Here you really lost me.
GW2 is a game. Not a exercise, not a job, not a sports club. A game. I said it when the fractal backpiece was introduced for Fractals only, I said it when the backpiece for PvP was announced, I said it for legendary armor:
Gating content behind game modes is plain and simple wrong and bad for the game. It breeds exactly the discussions we are having here right now.I know that many people think that people are looking up with envy and want on your efforts, but I stand on the firm believe that nobody remembers the name of your toon after he has passed them in Lions arch with your Eternal title and your grinded Astralaria. So the number of people that maybe care for that is in your closest group, aka your raiding team and your guild, and a few people that write you PMs about how that looks on you.
Regarding the question who deserves content X more, I would be with you if this was one of the activities I mentioned above, aka work, sport, exercise. I believe that first and foremost effort and dedication by playing the game should be rewarded in a game, not skill or reflexes and effort for builds which is a non-game activity anyway in my mind. Skills and reflexes should net you more, but a less skilled person should not be forced to go out emptyhanded off anything.
tl:dr Gating is wrong, and nobody cares if you have the Eternal title or Astralaria.
OK I will try to write it in a simplier manner, since you have some understanding difficulties.
Raid is a challenging content, that was what anet was saying before they implement it. Anet said it would not be à content for everyone then.
They put à nice reward behind them, because, you know, doing raid is a little more harder than spamming 1 in open world, and also to motivate people to try harder content, to challenge themselves. Yes, even in a game, some people like challenge.
But, some other people don’t like challenge in a game. They see the shinny, and they are: oh, shinny, I want it. Oh wait, I have to do something à little difficult to have it! No way, it’s à game. I’m supposing to have everything I want, in a easy way. I don’t care if people put à lot of effort for the reward, I want it for no effort…
And so we are in this topic. You’re saying that no one care about reward or title, but after you’re saying that Gating reward is wrong…you lost me.
But we will never agree between people who don’t mind challenge and a little work for a reward, and people who want all in an easy way.
I care for the reward and it´s accesibility.
Me too. And rewards are nice, and pretty accessible if you are trully motivated