General Dungeon Discussion Thread - Part 2

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Or Sera’s tools. Behehehe.

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Posted by: rotten.9753

rotten.9753

Tools meaning.. programming tools?

Rather tools for designers.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

What’s the difference between “their” tools and other people’s tools? are their tools bigger? better? the other way around?

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Posted by: Wuselknusel.4082

Wuselknusel.4082

Their tools are specially designed to work with the game engine. While this makes it easier for programmers to work with the engine of GW2, it also requires them to maintain the tool themself and to expand it if needed. However, since the devs usually have other things to do than to maintain these tools, it is most likely that those tools are outdated and not state-of-the-art. It also stops them from updating the engine, since they would not only have to update the engine, but their tools aswell. Last but not least, if they would use an engine and tools maintained by anther company, they could get updates way easier.

So it’s a tradeoff. You have the full control over your software, but you also have to maintain it. This usually leads to outdated and poorly written software.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

This is so anet it hurts. Do something you think is cool, then make it crash because you don’t know how to deal with it.
I really can’t picture devs making their tools bigger…

Do you keep those redesign links in your signature in hope someone at anet will read it? Lul

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

Do you keep those redesign links in your signature in hope someone at anet will read it? Lul

Please add a dungeon link. (Who knows maybe it will work O_O)

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Check my sig: never talk about dungeons. Never.

Anyway, I’m amazed at how anal people can get.. talking about sigils. Omg nub you use sigil of strength/air, what a scrub. Everyone knows you should get stacks of sigil of x slaying and swap for every dungeon, DUH.
… I think I’m either getting too old for this kitten or too casual… or I’m just kittening sick of people. How do I cure this disease?

(edited by deSade.9437)

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

Been a while since I visited the Dungeon Token Vendor. I was looking around and noticed that the Forgeman Mantle is 300 tokens as a light armor skin, while the Medium and heavy are both still 210 am I crazy? I don’t recall this bug from before. But I haven’t really been spending my tokens for a while…

“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Yes, it’s 300…. weird.
But then again, they don’t kittening care enough to put an icon for fracs’ portal and dungeons’ merchant, the little kittens.

Sergeant, sir, I require backup; the phiws are rampaging freely. Hoping they’re trolls, sir.

lets say it different my English is not that great but i try my best

problem what i see is stacking all together that there can be a mistake in your team
with that all can die in just 1 blow

that’s why i play more in the back row if something go wrong i can mabye get them up again its a 50% change but its worth the shot ??

also am a ranger and always have 1 tank pet with me i can send him to to get them up fast or use his taunt skill if it works on bosses ?? never try it but ok if i can get my tank pet to argo the boss i can get my team up

i wanna play it on the save side then try all stand together and hoping we kill the mops or boss or they kill us all -.-

so for me i think for a party 3 close range and 2 long range for back up ??
and if those spirit mops i can use have a very long range i can help my party to with buffs and keep my spirits save

Sir, I don’t have the authority to deal with such bullkitten, sir.

(I need to do the laundry then movie time)

(edited by deSade.9437)

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

Roger that, we grabbed a couple of Privates who did not look busy enough, armed them with moops and brooms and sent them in.

Not sure if we got a troll though. This seems like some kinda special snowflake we are dealing with here.

Edit: BINGO

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/One-Month-Feedback-Broken-Build-System

Attachments:

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(edited by Talyn.3295)

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Posted by: Wuselknusel.4082

Wuselknusel.4082

Do you keep those redesign links in your signature in hope someone at anet will read it? Lul

On the one hand, yes. I’ve put some thought into the ideas, enough to think that is worth noting. With the search function broken, noone would ever see those ideas again otherwise.
On the other hand, it may remind the devs that there is something down there on the forums called Ranger subforum and that they just have to scroll down to find it.
Last but not least, all things are subject to change and if I have an idea that I think suits the goal I want to reach better, then I can quickly alter the posts I’ve made.

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Posted by: fishball.7204

fishball.7204

Check my sig: never talk about dungeons. Never.

Anyway, I’m amazed at how anal people can get.. talking about sigils. Omg nub you use sigil of strength/air, what a scrub. Everyone knows you should get stacks of sigil of x slaying and swap for every dungeon, DUH.
… I think I’m either getting too old for this kitten or too casual… or I’m just kittening sick of people. How do I cure this disease?

I consider play style more important than sigils. Not once have I asked if people have force/outlaw sigils in CM even though I run it. Unless you want speed clear records there really isn’t much difference and play style / player skill makes so much more difference imo. Maybe I’m a casual too

FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN

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Posted by: thrag.9740

thrag.9740

On a serious note about the stacking thing. Something that annoys me with stacking is how it makes it even tougher to trash mobs. Obviously visual effects on the mobs are a bigger deal, and I wish we had an option to turn them off. Then again, who bothers to dodge the trash?

But that guy posting is a ranger. I can’t really blame a ranger for hating melee/stacking. sword is such a pile of kitten.

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Posted by: Thorwyn.8469

Thorwyn.8469

I just want to say Hi, but I need 15 chars, that makes me sad.

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

But that guy posting is a ranger. I can’t really blame a ranger for hating melee/stacking. sword is such a pile of kitten.

He will like it a lot better when he switched to Axe/Torch.

[DnT]::Nike::
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

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Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3erhpp/what_makes_other_mmos_challenging/

Already starting to see comments like “zerk meta is the problem”. Here we go again!

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3erhpp/what_makes_other_mmos_challenging/

Already starting to see comments like “zerk meta is the problem”. Here we go again!

Other MMOs are challenging? This is news to me.

One guy standing there screaming “hit me” while another guy heals him doesn’t strike me as “challenging”

“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3erhpp/what_makes_other_mmos_challenging/

Already starting to see comments like “zerk meta is the problem”. Here we go again!

Other MMOs are challenging? This is news to me.

One guy standing there screaming “hit me” while another guy heals him doesn’t strike me as “challenging”

Wildstar, SWTOR and WoW have extremely challenging raids still. The old tank and spank trinity is pretty much dead. Modern raids are all about movement/positioning, individual responsibility and coordination.

[DnT]::Nike::
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3erhpp/what_makes_other_mmos_challenging/

Already starting to see comments like “zerk meta is the problem”. Here we go again!

Other MMOs are challenging? This is news to me.

One guy standing there screaming “hit me” while another guy heals him doesn’t strike me as “challenging”

Wildstar, SWTOR and WoW have extremely challenging raids still. The old tank and spank trinity is pretty much dead. Modern raids are all about movement/positioning, individual responsibility and coordination.

That is good news. I am glad to hear. I will admit my experience with other MMOs is based on the past. Like FFXI etc.

“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”

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Posted by: thrag.9740

thrag.9740

But that guy posting is a ranger. I can’t really blame a ranger for hating melee/stacking. sword is such a pile of kitten.

He will like it a lot better when he switched to Axe/Torch.

Wait what? Rangers in dungeons should be using axe/torch? I’m pretty clueless with ranger so idk if your messing with me. Would it be a condi build?

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Condi ranger isn’t bad… used to love it at lupi, but I’m kittened at the indirect torch nerf.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Isnt WoW more about gear check and basic coordination than actual skill? Thats illusionary challenge.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Judging from the stories I’ve been told by WoWzers, there’s also challenging content in the form of positioning, skill building, decision making, and some gimmicky encounters.
Of course, it’s such an old game and we all know where challenge goes after a few years…
firstandlasttimeyoullhearmedefendwowEVER

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Yeah see i dont really regard planning type games as challenging. They have to have some action reflex element.

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Posted by: SlyDevil.3952

SlyDevil.3952

So i was testing mortar coefficients on alpha and this happened. I’m guessing the spawns were triggered by his hp drop, but spire teleporting, never seen this happen.

Interestingly I am able to speak to spire and path select from anywhere in the dungeon now. She stopped moving when I talked to her, sadness, I wanted to cross half the dungeon before path selecting.

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(edited by SlyDevil.3952)

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Posted by: frifox.5283

frifox.5283

Once Alpha gets past 75%, spire will teleport to nearest player and then the risen will start spawning every 40 sec. Just reset alpha near 75% and you should avoid all of the above.

(edited by frifox.5283)

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Posted by: SlyDevil.3952

SlyDevil.3952

Once Alpha gets past 75%, spire will teleport to nearest player and then the risen will start spawning every 40 sec. Just reset alpha near 75% and you should avoid all of the above.

Ye, I recreated it. Unfortunately it wanted me to kill alpha before progressing.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Yeah see i dont really regard planning type games as challenging. They have to have some action reflex element.

Play gw1 as a monk! Infuser. Pvp especially. Very twitchy.

….
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/One-Month-Feedback-Broken-Build-System/page/2#post5324292

How do you cope with such bullkitten? How? How do you do it?
I think I’m taking the 20094th break from the gw2 endgame [forums] to move onto the metagame [sitting idle in lobster’s arch playing with dyes]

(Gonna get banned anyway so who cares?)

(edited by deSade.9437)

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Posted by: Minigrump.4961

Minigrump.4961

i made a set of ascended clerics gear for absolutely no apparent reason other than i wanted to. i am that bored

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Yeah see i dont really regard planning type games as challenging. They have to have some action reflex element.

Totally agree, and most of the MMO developers out there agree as well. You see those types of elements in the better MMOs out there now. Even Everquest which is like 16 years old now has those elements put in, now they aren’t as good and clunky because it’s such an old game, but they were putting those in a long while back. But, reactionary elements seem to be the status quo of MMO combat now. The main difference between GW2 and others is that other games have some level of damage you WILL be taking.

This is what creates the tank role and the healer role. If you could avoid everything, those wouldn’t be needed. And, well, that’s what we got with GW2 if everyone works together to prevent the majority of the damage everyone gets through smoothly and no tank/healer is needed because everyone has the tools to defend themselves and sometimes their teammates. This is again different as in other games the DPS/Healers can’t defend themselves, so the tank takes over, but he can’t fully handle himself and the DPS will likely take some damage so the healer has his spot, and neither of them do kitten for damage, so the DPS take their role.

GW2 really doesn’t differ much, we don’t have a consistent/easy to use agro system and don’t have much unavoidable damage, that’s more or less the extent of it in a nutshell.

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

i made a set of ascended clerics gear for absolutely no apparent reason other than i wanted to. i am that bored

I did the same for my guard, and I really don’t think it’s all that bad, it’s just kinda stupid if your group doesn’t need it.

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Posted by: NoTrigger.8396

NoTrigger.8396

Isnt WoW more about gear check and basic coordination than actual skill? Thats illusionary challenge.

its more about requirements and not kittening up your rotations and even tho you can macro some stuff the rotations are harder to learn and master.
http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?15484-WoD-Mage-Compendium
check the playstyle sections.
there are encounters where 1 player who kittens up his rotation leads to a wipe because the requirements cant be met, but thats also because when top guilds attempt the next higher difficulty they are undergeared.

the combat is holding wow and its encounter design back, thats for sure. but the encounters are still more complex than anything we have in gw2.

[qT] Quantify

(edited by NoTrigger.8396)

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Posted by: Jockum.1385

Jockum.1385

This is what creates the tank role and the healer role. If you could avoid everything, those wouldn’t be needed.

GW1 is a bit different. In theorie you can avoid a lot of damage by positioning yourself in a good spot, kite enemies, make use of blind and cripples etc.
Its hard/impossible to avoid all damage, but you can avoid a lot – which is similar in GW2. So you need some healing. In GW2 we got our selfheal, buffood, small healing of guardian, etc. In GW1 you have to put skillpoints into healing prayers. So you can’t put them into axe mastery anymore. You got, similiar as in GW2, 8 Skillslots which are usually full – there is no room to run ~2 heal skills to heal yourself.
Players fast found out its more effective to run 6 dps chars and 2 fullhealers instead of 8 “allrounders”. You got more damage, more active defense and more healing at the same time. (there are some builds which are different.)
If we could swap out our selfheal in GW2 for a let’s say 33% dps buff and there would be no other healing (buffood, waterfields etc.) healers would become a bit more interesting. Because most people can’t avoid all damage and need healing. Atm selfheal is enough healing. We don’t even need to invest into healing power to bring a strong selfheal.
So imho the lack of healers in GW2 has not only to do with damage which can be avoided or not. Also the strong healing everyone got without having to make compromises plays an important role.
It’s not necessarily a bad thing.
I prefer to compare GW2s combat with a hack’n slay. We got our selfheal, hack’n slays got potions. I won’t run a stat like healing power in hack’n slays.
Healing power is a stat for classic fullhealers, you have to make a compromise to buff your healing. But in hack’n slays and GW2 you don’t have to make a compromise to bring a selfheal which is usually enough healing.

(edited by Jockum.1385)

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

It was the same in games I played in that you could avoid a lot through either complete avoidance or heavy mitigation. Positioning mattered. The only other game I liked the combat system as much as GW2 was DCUO and there you did a lot of rolling/running out of danger or blocking to pop a heavy mitigation (and a counter sometimes which meant knocking down the enemy).

There’s a reason that good guilds did the same we do here and focus very heavily on DPS as you can get away with very little in the way of defensive requirements.

You’re right though, self healing plays a big part in things. It’s our innate safety net. But, you will see professions like say Engi, Ele and Warrior using heals for their utility leaving them on cooldown much of the time (engi/ele for blast and warrior for the adrenaline spike), they still certainly play a part but we do have situations where they’re not used for healing, even Guard I’ll use it in a block rotation while at full health quite often. But, again you’re right, it’s not surprising that my closest comparison as far as MMOs go to GW2 is DCUO, which had the potions you mention that could really help fill any gaps in your support roles, but there you still had a strict “trinity” (it was 4 hard roles there). It was that way in that game because of the need of tanks mainly, they could simply mitigate/avoid far more than anything else and the bosses were scaled to that, so you had their big one shots you’d be avoiding that could still kill tanks, but then they had the “jabs” from the bosses that were either impossible or unreasonable/stupid to try and avoid. That pretty much forced the trinity there.

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Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

I once saw a guardian in a video doing Empowering Might (Staff #4) and Swapping weapons mid-animation and NOT cancelling the rest of the channel, how is this done?

I can’t find the video anymore

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Posted by: Rayons.3076

Rayons.3076

I once saw a guardian in a video doing Empowering Might (Staff #4) and Swapping weapons mid-animation and NOT cancelling the rest of the channel, how is this done?

I can’t find the video anymore

You can do this with any weapon skill as long you are out of combat.

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Posted by: Lendruil.9061

Lendruil.9061

I once saw a guardian in a video doing Empowering Might (Staff #4) and Swapping weapons mid-animation and NOT cancelling the rest of the channel, how is this done?

I can’t find the video anymore

He probably didn’t switch weapons by using the weaponswitch-button but he just switched to another weapon from his inventory.

Skuldin - No Hesitation [hT]

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Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246

TheRandomGuy.7246

So this just happened.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

So this just happened.

Nice photoshop work

grats

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Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

Soo… rip fractals?

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

Soo… rip fractals?

/sigh

Not sure, but after reading all that expectantly the part about: Wanting more players to be interested in them, The legendary back piece, and shorter fractals.

I walked away with a bad taste in my mouth.

“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Its only shorter because they arent forcing you to do 3 random ones in a row. This is huge for the record scene.

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Posted by: adozu.6398

adozu.6398

also the new fractal GS looks UGLY

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Well, what can I say? It looks like a lot of smoke, with no trace of the steak. Phiws may have already eaten it.
… anyway… I wasn’t expecting any attention towards fractals, so it’s a huge surprise. It’s also a big worry…
And yeah, they managed to make the fractal gs even uglier.
I wonder if they have a guy working on it specifically.

P.S. The only steak I can see, though it’s probably turkey (ew): can do something with the few rings I have kept and cat golem minis. Nothing else, since I’m not interested in the backpack (no, not spending 1500g, thanks a lot!) and I got all the fractal skins I want.
kitten the record scene, I want more skins. I hope that awful golden thing isn’t the only colour available?

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Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

Just remember we went from 3 fractals + 1 boss fractal to 1 fractal to be able to progress through scales.

And also remember that mobs will not only scale from HP + damage but also from precision and toughness. PHIWs will be kittening all over the place from the increased effectiviness of their condition specs.

Why are they acting like they are catering to “hardcores” and “casuals” at the same time, when it’s clearly this only benefits casuals?

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

Kinda feels like all my work to this point is going to be invalidated in a few days of this going live. Which is really annoying, I liked that fractals was one of the few places were the bads, the casuals and the PHIWs stayed out of. But for a while at least its gonna be a flood of them to get the new “shines” its like holding a carrot in front of them, they won’t be able to help themselves.

Which will bring back the threads like how doing fractals to get those 5 pristine relics that were needed for the back piece was such an inconvenience.

“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Kinda feels like all my work to this point is going to be invalidated in a few days of this going live. Which is really annoying, I liked that fractals was one of the few places were the bads, the casuals and the PHIWs stayed out of. But for a while at least its gonna be a flood of them to get the new “shines” its like holding a carrot in front of them, they won’t be able to help themselves.

Which will bring back the threads like how doing fractals to get those 5 pristine relics that were needed for the back piece was such an inconvenience.

You shouldn’t worry about that: (we) they’ll be out of fractals in no time.
Run fractal 51: “omg this is too hard!”
Complain on the forum
Go back to SW
or
Run fractal 51, 52, 53, 99: “meh, ok, I got my new shiny”
Go back to afk’ing in LA

No need to worry, really. Gonna be fine. Well, gonna be shorter, gonna have less stuff to do and probably gonna be more frustrating with insane instabilities that force you to freak out on ascended gear (“WHERE’S MY ASCENDED KNIGHT ARMOOOOORR”) – and don’t forget! it’ll also be a huge money sink because of the agony..
But other than that, it’ll be fine.
I suppose the freaks with inferiority complex will scramble to appear on top of dem leaderboardz, omg ezportz.

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Just remember we went from 3 fractals + 1 boss fractal to 1 fractal to be able to progress through scales.

And also remember that mobs will not only scale from HP + damage but also from precision and toughness. PHIWs will be kittening all over the place from the increased effectiviness of their condition specs.

Why are they acting like they are catering to “hardcores” and “casuals” at the same time, when it’s clearly this only benefits casuals?

First, hardly think its’ fair to throw condi’s in with PHIW at this point. For some professions they’re right up there. Hell I believe Obal’s math showed condi actually winning out when you have multiple targets, and I know Engi’s not far from power.

That said, I do hope they don’t make the toughness increase a blanket effect over everything in higher levels otherwise it’ll just knock power builds out of contention. I do think it’d a good idea as an instability in itself. So some level favor condi builds.

As for catering to casuals, yeah, a lot of it is, but if the instability combinations along with generally more punishing encounters ends up how I think it will, I don’t see casuals completing some stuff. Of course they may be able to hop over the particularly nasty bits with the help of people who have done it to open up later levels.

It’d actually be pretty cool if only the next level would increase your personal reward level, could of course do the others for reward but in doing so someone who could open a 100 would have actually done everything.

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Posted by: Sephil.3971

Sephil.3971

Funny thing that happened on my alt account today, doing CoF P2 then P1.
500 AP on alt acc, 24k AP on main.

I’m not trying to grieve anyone, just thought the difference between the guy in P2 and the second one who insta-kicked me despite the absence of any AP requirement in his LFG is kinda funny.

(note that at the time of the screen i had time to finish the run with another group, get back to LA, sell/salvage/list on TP all my loot, and the second guy still hasn’t got out of his run)

Attachments:

87th Worldwide Masterful Achiever

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

That said, I do hope they don’t make the toughness increase a blanket effect over everything in higher levels otherwise it’ll just knock power builds out of contention.

Do you actually hope that is not going to happen or you’re pulling mah leg?