Guild Wars 2

Just a thought I had while watching him leap on me after a very unexpected timing for his AoE attack.

I noticed that sometimes he’ll leap up in the air, and instead of his AoE attack happening as he comes down, it’ll hit you (and then the ground attack right after, of course) as he’s in mid air or as he’s jumping upwards.

My thought is that if there’s some terrain that he “clips” on the way up, the stairs for example, it’ll trigger the code that normally fires when he “touches the ground”. Just a theory based on watching him, but I’d need to verify with more runs, I think.

Anyone else observe his odd ground attack behavior?

If he didnt die before he could leap, I’d help you test this.

That doesn’t actually help the OP at all.

In my limited experience of the troll, it’s a two-piece attack. The first ~10,000 damage hits while hes about to come down, the other piece hits when he lands. You can dodge both hits but you need to time the dodge well.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Just a thought I had while watching him leap on me after a very unexpected timing for his AoE attack.

I noticed that sometimes he’ll leap up in the air, and instead of his AoE attack happening as he comes down, it’ll hit you (and then the ground attack right after, of course) as he’s in mid air or as he’s jumping upwards.

My thought is that if there’s some terrain that he “clips” on the way up, the stairs for example, it’ll trigger the code that normally fires when he “touches the ground”. Just a theory based on watching him, but I’d need to verify with more runs, I think.

Anyone else observe his odd ground attack behavior?

That honestly happens with almost all enemy attacks to me, so I’m not sure how realiant my information on this is. But yeah, that happens embarassingly often.

Anierna.6918:

If he didnt die before he could leap, I’d help you test this.

Gl killing him before he could leap if his first attack is such.

/nod I know it’s a 2 part attack (the ground aoe, then the wave attack that is targetted and follows immediately after)

I just mean it seems to vary when these attacks happen. Normally you’d see them happen just as he’kittenting the ground. This is the expected effect and a well timed dodge can avoid both of the attacks.

It’s just that sometimes he’ll leap in the air and literally be in mid air when the attacks happen. I’ll see if I can maybe get a video of it next time I do this run and catch a few bugged attacks.

hendo.1940:

Anierna.6918:

If he didnt die before he could leap, I’d help you test this.

Gl killing him before he could leap if his first attack is such.

Fear Me! to the ice-wall slightly behind him and to his left. You can CC him with that before he leaps, or even aggros, and still get him to that wall before the fear runs out. 4x Fiery Rush, dead. 100% success rate in preventing him leaping at all, assuming the war doesn’t screw up the Fear.

Anierna.6918:

Fear Me!
4x Fiery Rush

presuming a certain party composition, methinks.

When I melee I dodge roll backwards and then forwards when he does his leap to avoid the second attack, which travels outward relatively slowly.

thomasgjkgwdn.4760:

Anierna.6918:

Fear Me!
4x Fiery Rush

presuming a certain party composition, methinks.

ofc. 2 ele’s in every group – 1 staff, 1 scepter LH. A single warrior for party buffs/Fear Me! A guard for stability/reflects. Usually the 5th is a thief for stealth/scorp wire/SS and, more importantly, higher FGS dmg/vuln stacking with FGS.

EDIT: Guard because this is HotW. I prefer not taking a guard, if I can possibly avoid it.

Not everyone plays double ele for everything.

/yawn

Impresses me everytime again.

It lands for part of the damage, then sends a shockwave out similar to Warrior Mace #5 for the remainder. Always dodge into him, but the window to only use 1 dodge is still very small.

I like this boss now.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Anyone else observe his odd ground attack behavior?

Same deal with every leap with weird altitude shenanigans going on.

Arah p2 abomination comes to mind.
ac troll (the original!) on stairs or why not even a tiny little bumpy stone? tons of fun.

edit: rereading thread I’m kind of surprised no one knew what you meant.

Anierna.6918:

hendo.1940:

Anierna.6918:

If he didnt die before he could leap, I’d help you test this.

Gl killing him before he could leap if his first attack is such.

Fear Me! to the ice-wall slightly behind him and to his left. You can CC him with that before he leaps, or even aggros, and still get him to that wall before the fear runs out. 4x Fiery Rush, dead. 100% success rate in preventing him leaping at all, assuming the war doesn’t screw up the Fear.

This is exactly why people complain about “zergburgers” bypassing boss mechanics. You really do set a great example for the rest of us! The best advice is to teach someone how to deal with the situation when things go wrong or you dont have a perfect group. That means dodge.

Anyway to answer the op. It probably is to do with terrain clipping. I witness it almost every day on abom in arah p2. Probably because he clips the rock when doing the leap. I always assumed it was lag or just an animation bug though. x)

spoj.9672:

Anierna.6918:

hendo.1940:

Anierna.6918:

If he didnt die before he could leap, I’d help you test this.

Gl killing him before he could leap if his first attack is such.

Fear Me! to the ice-wall slightly behind him and to his left. You can CC him with that before he leaps, or even aggros, and still get him to that wall before the fear runs out. 4x Fiery Rush, dead. 100% success rate in preventing him leaping at all, assuming the war doesn’t screw up the Fear.

This is exactly why people complain about “zergburgers” bypassing boss mechanics. You really do set a great example for the rest of us! The best advice is to teach someone how to deal with the situation when things go wrong or you dont have a perfect group. That means dodge.

Anyway to answer the op. It probably is to do with terrain clipping. I witness it almost every day on abom in arah p2. Probably because he clips the rock when doing the leap. I always assumed it was lag or just an animation bug though. x)

A++ to this. We’re not scrubs, everyone knows how to FGS the thing into the ground and is happy to do that most of the time. Asking a question about the detailed mechanics of a boss is interesting and deserves a better response than “lol fgs.”

Thanks to OP for starting the discussion and others for the points. I’m learning something~

About serious discussion, does anyone know why mesmer’s who reflect alphards bomb pull with feedback/curtain deal like 4k damage, but when phantasms reflect it, they deal about 24k damage? Been trying to figure that one for a while now, yet can’t come up with any logical reason.

Im guessing empowering illusions and/or phantasmal strength have a big impact. Mesmer doesnt have many personal modifiers. But even so the difference seems a bit too large.

hendo.1940:

About serious discussion, does anyone know why mesmer’s who reflect alphards bomb pull with feedback/curtain deal like 4k damage, but when phantasms reflect it, they deal about 24k damage? Been trying to figure that one for a while now, yet can’t come up with any logical reason.

Is it possible that during the Damage Calculation of the Reflection, the game takes into consideration that you have 3 Phantasms reflecting the attack, making the damage boost stack Additively (Or however you spell it) whereas with Feedback it only accounts for the Mesmer’s personal DPS boost?

I.e since each Phantasms get the Damage boost for Increased Phantasm/Clone damage, it’d be x% x3 since all 3 are reflecting? Or have I misunderstood how reflect damage is handled with Clones?

TheSwede.9512:

hendo.1940:

About serious discussion, does anyone know why mesmer’s who reflect alphards bomb pull with feedback/curtain deal like 4k damage, but when phantasms reflect it, they deal about 24k damage? Been trying to figure that one for a while now, yet can’t come up with any logical reason.

Is it possible that during the Damage Calculation of the Reflection, the game takes into consideration that you have 3 Phantasms reflecting the attack, making the damage boost stack Additively (Or however you spell it) whereas with Feedback it only accounts for the Mesmer’s personal DPS boost?

I.e since each Phantasms get the Damage boost for Increased Phantasm/Clone damage, it’d be x% x3 since all 3 are reflecting? Or have I misunderstood how reflect damage is handled with Clones?

That would be truly weird, I think you misunderstand how phantasm damage is handled. :P

spoj.9672:

Im guessing empowering illusions and/or phantasmal strength have a big impact. Mesmer doesnt have many personal modifiers. But even so the difference seems a bit too large.

Mesmers have more apmlifiers than their illusions, aswell as more stats. Phantasms don’t even get potion/sigils, which is why I can’t figure any reason why it is this way.

Any chance to see combat log?

Maybe its because when you reflect with feedback it just uses the mesmers personal modifiers and stats. But when its reflected with wardens it uses the clones, which includes empowering illusions and phantasmal str, and then makes the bomb yours so it also uses your personal mods aswell. So you get it increased twice. Thats the only reason i can think of.

spoj.9672:

Maybe its because when you reflect with feedback it just uses the mesmers personal modifiers and stats. But when its reflected with wardens it uses the clones, which includes empowering illusions and phantasmal str, and then makes the bomb yours so it also uses your personal mods aswell. So you get it increased twice. Thats the only reason i can think of.

That could explain 50% more or something like that, but this is 600%. Something is weird. I certainly can’t explain it, but it’s probably related to something like this.

Wethospu.6437:

Any chance to see combat log?

You don’t see damage inflicted by your illusions in combat log. Way too hard to implement.

Wellllllll, I mean, isn’t alpkittene of the buggiest encounters in the game? Just sayin’.
I’m not a genius, but when I see a boss laying down multiple copies of big ol’ bomb which don’t pull you away from the explosion but towards it or, even better alternating pull-knockback, well…
I don’t really trust anything I see when I fight alphard.

…. Alpkittene?
Aight.
I… I see cats everywhere.
/takes some pills

deSade.9437:

I… I see cats everywhere.
/takes some pills

Inb4 more cats.

This…. uh… They’re climbing up my arm… So furry, so soft…. their meowing pierces my head… Ahhh… Halp.
How am I supposed to dodge with all those kitties around me? Sitting on the keyboard, lying on the case, in front of my screen…
And then people complain I can’t dodge the troll doublehit or alphie. Maybe I need more fgs.

I’m not sure what the cause is, but I have had this same thing happen to me. My party thought I was making up excuses for failed dodges.

hendo.1940:

About serious discussion, does anyone know why mesmer’s who reflect alphards bomb pull with feedback/curtain deal like 4k damage, but when phantasms reflect it, they deal about 24k damage? Been trying to figure that one for a while now, yet can’t come up with any logical reason.

Is this patch update line the beggining the end for Reflect Way dungeons/tactics : The Great Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest no longer does full damage to itself from reflected projectile attacks. A certain number of the projectiles are no longer reflectable.

What if that was instated in dungeons? :c

The issue with wurm is that everyone that is not the mesmer is screwed. This makes people sad and angry.

Dungeons do not have that problem so it will most definitely be added.

:(

JJBigs.8456:

hendo.1940:

About serious discussion, does anyone know why mesmer’s who reflect alphards bomb pull with feedback/curtain deal like 4k damage, but when phantasms reflect it, they deal about 24k damage? Been trying to figure that one for a while now, yet can’t come up with any logical reason.

Is this patch update line the beggining the end for Reflect Way dungeons/tactics : The Great Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest no longer does full damage to itself from reflected projectile attacks. A certain number of the projectiles are no longer reflectable.

What if that was instated in dungeons? :c

Then we’d use untrained wardens and block everything like we already do on many bosses? Obviously would not work on some, like lupi, but tons of bosses are already unreflectable.