Guild Wars 2

This is a thread for players who are tired of stacking to get together and simply play the game it was meant to be played, designed to be played, and used to be played. It’s not about rewards. It’s not about making a statement. It’s simply a friendly quest for the fun and challenge not provided in the current stack metagame.

No stacking and no bannable exploits (or preferably no exploits at all). Mob skipping and everything else will be up for vote or simply decided by the group members.

So, if you’re interested in playing, add me and I’ll start getting groups together when I have free time and can get a reasonable number of interested players. Feel free to add each other as well, because I can’t be here as often as I’d like to be (which would be all the time).

There will be no restrictions based on class, gear, or achievement points. These runs are simply for fun, so I don’t see how any such elitism is necessary. And no, you don’t need to be experienced either. Anyone who is interested is perfectly welcome to come along.

And I must ask my detractors to STOP derailing the thread. I’m not here to get in kitten-waiving contests or to insult or be insulted by other members of the GW2 community for no discernible reason. If you’ve got something to say, say it reasonably.

And on that note, I should – and do – apologize for any less than admirable conduct I may have shown. I was – and to a degree still am – bitter about the state of the game and, unfortunately, its community.

Edit:

I have started up a secondary guild for those interested. Players Against Stacking Stuff [PASS] is effectively an extra friend’s list with a common goal – no stack dungeon runs. Skipping and all other playstyle choices are up for individual groups to decide. No class, gear, level, server, or representation requirements. Be friendly and have fun.

Perfect acronym for this PASSS. ( which is what I’ll be doing) good luck nonetheless, it likely belongs in the dungeon forum.

chuckle

It’s for those reasons that I rarely do dungeons. I’m not one to ‘run’ ‘skip’ etc, since it smacks of not ‘playing the game.’ Go figure.

I think mobs in dungeons shouldn’t go back to their spawn point if we go too far. In open world it’s understandable, but in a dungeon? Not really.

Also, I still want to see monsters that move and attack at the same time. The normal ones.

1. Open your LFG tool.
2. Post a LFG saying: “Path X, no skipping, no stacking, casual run everyone welcome”
3. ???
4. Profit!

Taku.6352:

2. Post a LFG saying: “Path X, no skipping, no stacking, casual run everyone welcome”

Yeah that barely works. If you are patient you could say “noobies welcomed”, that will drive away all those who think they are so good and you’ll get nice people. And since dungeons aren’t that hard anyway, it will barely show that the guy has never done the dungeon.

RedStar.4218:

Taku.6352:

2. Post a LFG saying: “Path X, no skipping, no stacking, casual run everyone welcome”

Yeah that barely works. If you are patient you could say “noobies welcomed”, that will drive away all those who think they are so good and you’ll get nice people. And since dungeons aren’t that hard anyway, it will barely show that the guy has never done the dungeon.

nice ppl that will die in easiest path of easiest dungeon and blame others for it
i dont feel ‘so good’, but if someones running same path for 10th/100th time that person is doing it for shinies [gold/tokens]. why waste our time killing trash, if they dont give us shinies and we DONT HAVE TO kill them?

i understand you, but unless devs make it impossible to skip, 90% of lfg runs gonna be ‘80 speed’

If you’re against skipping and you skip 50 risen in arah you can just kill 50 risen outside the dungeon when you’re done its the same thing.

I applaud your efforts for creating this thread. This is actually much better than the threads we usually get with people demanding that ANet change the game to ‘fix’ skipping/stacking.

While I will also be _passs_ing on this as Lilith has, I am going to link this thread on any future ‘please fix stacking/skipping’ threads. Best of luck!

This is a common theme for people new to dungeons. Once you run them hundreds of times, you will quickly see why we stack/skip. But some skips are fun, like the Arah runs. And some bosses are actually fun, like ol’ Lupi <3

I PASSS. Come back to the discussion when the OP run a few more dungeons (outside AC and CoF).

You should probably add a requirement of “Must have 3 hours free, before committing to a dungeon run”.

op pls post video of full clear of arah path 4

pls

Once i made a “Pink Dye Only” for AC exp, with my mighty zerk ele, for all levels, all kinds of player/classes the only requirement was to change the armor color to pink!
Ppl would join, but were unwilling to change their armor dye color :/ even inexperienced low level players, whom definitely WOULD BE CARRIED were not willing to follow a simple order in a very rare opportunity to make gold.
Untill some lowlvls willing to learn joined and we proceed to finish the dungeon.
So my conclusion is that really you can play how u want , just make it clear in your LFG description and kick the most stubborn(who do not comply to your lfg description), just take in consideration that you may take an unnecessary amount of time in the dungeon that hold the same rewards as if completed in a shorter time, and, as pointed by other posters, running the same dungeons over and over will get boring.
Good Luck on your endeavor

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Tired of not actually playing the game when you run dungeons with pugs? Tired of skipping half of the dungeon? Tired of exploits? Tired of gameplay that has been dumbed down to dodge rolling into walls and spamming 1? Honestly, it seems that, as a result of all of the efficiency-oriented dungeon metagames and champ zerging, most of the community has forgotten how to actually play.

That’s a nice offer, but I think you are having some misconceptions about our skill levels. And I’m quite certain that speedrun tactics are the result of repeatedly doing dungeons and learning every detail of the encounters. Efficient, yes, but we most certainly have not forgotten how to play, we just want to avoid wasting time and repair fees.

But that doesn’t matter. We play how we want. Good luck. :>

A while back someone in this forum made a “Kill All Monsters” guild that was about this very same thing. Nobody joined and the guild died of inactivity.

What happens is a lot of carebears talk a good game about wanting no stacking, anything goes runs but when faced with the reality of a 1 hour AC path 1, they don’t show up. So really think about what you are asking for, and if you are really committed to the concept enough to keep such a guild alive.

I’ve always believed that anyone is free to exercise their freedom, so long that it doesn’t limit others’.

The OP created this thread in such a way that it doesn’t attempt to coerce others to play the way he wants, and in my opinion, this should be respected whether we agree or disagree with his intent.

I like things done quickly and efficiently, so I would never partake in this initiative, but by no means do I condemn it.

Good luck, Duke.

DigitalKirin.9714:

I applaud your efforts for creating this thread. This is actually much better than the threads we usually get with people demanding that ANet change the game to ‘fix’ skipping/stacking.

While I will also be _passs_ing on this as Lilith has, I am going to link this thread on any future ‘please fix stacking/skipping’ threads. Best of luck!

To be honest, I WOULD like to see Anet fix the design flaws that result in the ability to stack and the desire to skip… ALONG WITH corresponding rewards buffs to make those dungeons worthy of my time (and the time of others).

On another note, it seems like people are quick to assume that I run dungeons infrequently or only do AC/CoF. That’s simply wrong. I’ll admit that I don’t run Arah frequently, but it is the only dungeon that I do not have much experience with.

Perhaps I should have left skipping out of it. Skipping is not so terrible as everything else – it’s a matter of easily fixable reward allotment or perhaps the result of dungeon sections that speak of bad design that should be removed, rather than skipped, in the first place (unless, of course, the entire design purpose of that dungeon section was to create a section that was meant to be ran past – see guild rush or the Fractals dolphins.)

Stacking, on the other hand, I vehemently oppose on principle. All it does it dumb down the experience and make it mind-numbing by exploiting deficiencies in the AI and/or game mechanics. These days, I have to fight the temptation to browse the forums during most boss fights because the experience is just…. that… bad. And that’s just not fun. It’s efficient, but that efficiency comes at the cost of wanting to bash one’s face in with a textbook just to feel something.

Don’t forget to kill the champ troll in AC.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Don’t forget to kill the champ troll in AC.

Eh. Why not? Or Kholer, for that matter. They’re both easy. Hell, I’ll even forgive the exploit where you make them fight each other. Why? Because it’s an amusing excuse to break open a bag of popcorn while you play.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Don’t forget to kill the champ troll in AC.

Eh. Why not? Or Kholer, for that matter. They’re both easy. Hell, I’ll even forgive the exploit where you make them fight each other. Why? Because it’s an amusing excuse to break open a bag of popcorn while you play.

Most no-skipping groups (that I’ve seen) skip it. LOL

Duke Blackrose.4981:

I have to fight the temptation to browse the forums during most boss fights because the experience is just…. that… bad. And that’s just not fun. It’s efficient, but that efficiency comes at the cost of wanting to bash one’s face in with a textbook just to feel something.

Get out of the care bear dungeons. Venture into Arah. Feel some Lupicus melee action. Do that, and tell me you can afk it. I went 3 weeks once, without running any dungeon but arah paths. That’s how much I love that dungeon.

Hey I am all for playing however you want to play buddy! You want to not stack or skip anything that is fine by me…..but when you join my LFG post that says EXP LvL 80 Speed Run….don’t complain that we are stacking or skipping. Make your own post!

I’m glad that i’m not the only one that thinks this way. +1 to the OP

Add me to the “Against Stacking” group.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I applaud your efforts for creating this thread. This is actually much better than the threads we usually get with people demanding that ANet change the game to ‘fix’ skipping/stacking.

While I will also be _passs_ing on this as Lilith has, I am going to link this thread on any future ‘please fix stacking/skipping’ threads. Best of luck!

To be honest, I WOULD like to see Anet fix the design flaws that result in the ability to stack and the desire to skip… ALONG WITH corresponding rewards buffs to make those dungeons worthy of my time (and the time of others).

But the good thing about this thread is that instead of coming here bemoaning your fate, you decided to be proactive about your personal in-game experience. Instead of asking someone else to fix your game experience, you are improving it yourself. That should be commended.

Elrey.5472:

I’m glad that i’m not the only one that thinks this way. +1 to the OP

Aden Celeste.3650:

Add me to the “Against Stacking” group.

Bam. Look at that, 2 new people that you can already group with. o_o)-b

I do not like skipping. But some stuff I skip. For example. snowbound fractal, after destroying the elemental. The next part I skip. Mobs don’t give loot, the patrols are far apart. Skip.

Some stuff though, annoys me. Let us repeatedly jump on this pixel here until we manage to land on it, then run on a wall, use swiftness, make a leap.

Yikes. Players grabbed the liberty we got away from WoW corridor like instance and instantly exploited the kitten out of that. Y’know, almost like begging designers to kill the big instances and herd players back into corridor like instances since it is the only way to get players to play the game instead of exploit it.

P.S. in fact, simply removing the leashing of mobs (why do we even have it in dungeons? I see no reason for it) would prevent most of the skipping. In exchange kill silvers. They have too much HP and not enough loot. Downgrade dungeon mobs to Veterans.

If you downgrade dungeon mobs to veterans everything will just explode (even more) with a good zerker group

Is there a group for players like me who like to genocide all enemies in the dungeon, but isn’t opposed to stacking if that’s the safest/smartest way to deal with a boss? (Whether it’s melee or ranged doesn’t matter. Sometimes sticking together so the boss’s attacks all go in the same spot so players don’t run around like headless chickens and die IS the best strategy.)

Note that I do oppose glitching out bosses like luring the Mossman into the water so he stops attacking. That smacks of exploiting to me.

Arbitrarily setting the difficulty much higher to complete certain contents in the game could be seen ironically as elitism also, lol.

Kanto.1659:

I do not like skipping. But some stuff I skip. For example. snowbound fractal, after destroying the elemental. The next part I skip. Mobs don’t give loot, the patrols are far apart. Skip.

Actually, the Svanir/Wolf mobs after the elemental DO drop loot. It’s only the endlessly respawning Svanir at the big campfire that don’t.

Tachii.3506:

Arbitrarily setting the difficulty much higher to complete certain contents in the game could be seen ironically as elitism also, lol.

That’s a matter of perspective. You say “arbitrarily setting it higher,” I say “putting the bar back in the middle.”

FenrirSlakt.3692:

I’ve always believed that anyone is free to exercise their freedom, so long that it doesn’t limit others’.

The OP created this thread in such a way that it doesn’t attempt to coerce others to play the way he wants, and in my opinion, this should be respected whether we agree or disagree with his intent.

I like things done quickly and efficiently, so I would never partake in this initiative, but by no means do I condemn it.

Good luck, Duke.

This.
The only thing I disagree on is the ‘way dungeons are meant to be played’.
If there was an intended way, it would definitely include skipping and using terrain (although not to use safespots). I recall dungeons being meant to only be completable with an organized group of good players. Currently any party consisting of five first timers and random weapon sets is able to complete them.

I would love it if dungeon mob mechanics would punish stacking with AOEs or DOTs. I would love it if it was not really safe to stack a corner. But if this was to happen then the clear times would go up significantly, which would also mean that rewards for finishing dungeons should be bigger

I would love it if the champion mobs in Frostgorge scaled up enough to wipe the zergs with AOE and DOTs. Same for Queensdale and Malchors. The way champions were meant to be fought.

Yeah they need to make champ damage and aoe cap scale up. Just scaling up health doesnt cut it. I want to see those champ train tears.

Champ farming was not intended by ANet to begin with.

Everyone needs to be banned.

/argument

So they said back in development that champs would get new AoE skills as there are more players. So when is that happening?

zencow.3651:

So they said back in development that champs would get new AoE skills as there are more players. So when is that happening?

It happened in the queens gauntlet. But those champs couldnt fail and people just ran back to them from the nearby waypoint. I did see entire zergs pretty much wipe on the centaur boss though.

Though I have no intention to join the initiative, because I enjoy a different playstyle, I have to reccommend the idea.

Basically it boils down to what is a part of what I feel to be the solution to make the game more enjoyable for everyone: Find likeminded people. Play with them. Have more fun!

There are a few other aspects to make the game more enjoyable, but they are not part of this topic.

The only thing I disagree about is the “forgot how to play” notion. The same goes for phrases like “how it was meant to be played”.
The mere fact that there are different philosophies of how to play and that all of them can be translated into a working playstyle shows that there is more than one way to play the game.

Silberfisch.3046:

The only thing I disagree about is the “forgot how to play” notion. The same goes for phrases like “how it was meant to be played”.
The mere fact that there are different philosophies of how to play and that all of them can be translated into a working playstyle shows that there is more than one way to play the game.

“How it was meant to be played” could indeed be taken as a subjective statement because players are out for different things.

What is not subjective, however, is the literal interpretation of the phrase. What was the intention of the development team when they designed the content or rather how was the game designed to be played? The answer should be obvious; they explicitly developed Guild Wars 2 to have truly mobile combat as one of its defining features. Even dodging is a form of mobility. The stack style contradicts intended game design by taking advantage of minute, unintended flaws in the system to turn mobile combat into stationary and typically easier combat.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Silberfisch.3046:

The only thing I disagree about is the “forgot how to play” notion. The same goes for phrases like “how it was meant to be played”.
The mere fact that there are different philosophies of how to play and that all of them can be translated into a working playstyle shows that there is more than one way to play the game.

“How it was meant to be played” could indeed be taken as a subjective statement because players are out for different things.

What is not subjective, however, is the literal interpretation of the phrase. What was the intention of the development team when they designed the content or rather how was the game designed to be played? The answer should be obvious; they explicitly developed Guild Wars 2 to have truly mobile combat as one of its defining features. Even dodging is a form of mobility. The stack style contradicts intended game design by taking advantage of minute, unintended flaws in the system to turn mobile combat into stationary and typically easier combat.

Are you saying that when people stack, they don’t dodge?

If you are, I’m not sure you actually know what is meant by stacking.

Remove loss of aggro on mobs. Thief is now mandatory.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

What is not subjective, however, is the literal interpretation of the phrase. What was the intention of the development team when they designed the content or rather how was the game designed to be played? The answer should be obvious; they explicitly developed Guild Wars 2 to have truly mobile combat as one of its defining features. Even dodging is a form of mobility. The stack style contradicts intended game design by taking advantage of minute, unintended flaws in the system to turn mobile combat into stationary and typically easier combat.

First, you don’t know what their intentions were unless you are a developer. You should take a minute to consider that you don’t have the level of omniscience you think you do, and consequently, your conclusions might be wrong.

Secondly, the fact that you think that all you have to do is stack in a ball, never dodge and win every encounter shows that you aren’t even familiar with the very basics of the object of your contempt. When a person says, “i hate mexican food, especially the sushi” that person sounds really ignorant. Don’t be that person.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Silberfisch.3046:

The only thing I disagree about is the “forgot how to play” notion. The same goes for phrases like “how it was meant to be played”.
The mere fact that there are different philosophies of how to play and that all of them can be translated into a working playstyle shows that there is more than one way to play the game.

“How it was meant to be played” could indeed be taken as a subjective statement because players are out for different things.

What is not subjective, however, is the literal interpretation of the phrase. What was the intention of the development team when they designed the content or rather how was the game designed to be played? The answer should be obvious; they explicitly developed Guild Wars 2 to have truly mobile combat as one of its defining features. Even dodging is a form of mobility. The stack style contradicts intended game design by taking advantage of minute, unintended flaws in the system to turn mobile combat into stationary and typically easier combat.

Are you saying that when people stack, they don’t dodge?

If you are, I’m not sure you actually know what is meant by stacking.

No, no, no. I’m not implying that at all. God knows I’ve run enough CoE to make that apparent.

When people stack, part of their goal is often to remove the movement portion of the dodge by aiming it at a wall, as said movement would have often otherwise detracted from dps and upset the stack.

Okay, next question: Do you dislike the CoE Alpha stacking/dodging? Do you want everyone to range him instead?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Okay, next question: Do you dislike the CoE Alpha stacking/dodging? Do you want everyone to range him instead?

Dislike it? Yes. Understand it? Ironically also yes. Alpha is one of those few bosses where I understand why the stack is performed and see why pubs often feel the need to do so. It’s still boring – but a large part of that is that Alpha is a boring boss design. Count to three. Dodge. Win. It’s like Sesame Street in boss form. Then again, the lack of thought put into pug stacking play is readily apparent when the stack fails. If the boss moves or someone is out of place, half of the party will often wipe very quickly because they often lack the ability to adapt to the (very simple) encounter.

And CoE, more than almost any other dungeon, could use a renovation. It’s just a bad dungeon. Paths 2 and 3 are practically redundant with only very minute differences, Alpha is dull, and bosses like the Mark T-B34RC3 are so boring and easy – regardless of the strategy used to defeat them – that it is baffling that they made it past the test staff.

I think what bothers many players is that stacking on bosses doesnt look very pretty. Its like what Nemisis said in his video, if you were going to make a video advertising GW2 with a boss fight, Kholer for example, would you record your group fighting him in that arena showing all his atacks and his pull or would you record your group stacked behind a pillar with that bad camera and melting him in 10 secs?

But all mmos have those strategies, in the previous mmo i played it had rooms with lots of mobs in dungeons, so the tank had to run around all of then to pull agro and circle around making a compact ball of mobs, so then the dps melee players could go to the center of that ball and start doing aoe, damaging all the mobs since the melee classes had short range aoe, the mages could do aoe on the ball too but mages had much larger aoe radius.

Hey I’m a lv 80 warrior, in anvil rock and I’m always looking for people to do dungeons and or fractals with, I am still a little bit of a noob when it comes to dungeons so if your patient and looking for people I’m interested. Thanks

That would be ironic if they formed a guild tagged PASS
Players against stacking skipping.

I find it hard to believe with the amount of players who make threads about skipping and stacking that it’s just too hard to find a group to play with. There’s clearly enough people to form a guild. I read through the topic and as someone pointed out this was attempted. Maybe they didn’t have good promoters?

Seriously give it a try make a guild and make friends and parties, I hope it all goes well.

This is the correct way to approach this subject; you have the support of this dirty slacker/stacker.