Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, I was reading the Meta thread, and it wasn’t really adressing this too much except a little at the end, and I wanted to make a thread about the RAID, not speedrunning dungeons, because honestly – I just don’t think dungeons are worth the theorycrafting effort, maybe fractals.

THE MAIN GOAL: is to assist people who are creating raid rosters and doing recruiting! So as an EXAMPLE here is the format I’d like us to try to stick to:

1 Condi Dealer: Preferred: CLASS Alternate: CLASS
2 Physical dealers: Preferred: CLASS, CLASS (zerker/valk)

And so on. I’d like for people to mention which other classes than your favorite you think can accomplish the roles, that way those of us who don’t have 3 condi engies in our guilds have something to think about (Ranger? Necro? Sinister Guard?).

Lastly, unless you say otherwise most people will assume that the class you mentioned is bringing a build similar to the current meta. If you are including a new build or elite spec, please explain what significant differences about it you are expecting. Let’s Theory!

I don´t want to stifle discussion here, but I don´t think we can have a reasonable meta discussion yet considering that with HoT there will probably be another round of balance changes to both core and elite specs (e.g. Herold seemed pretty OP), maybe also condition damage (Burning is too strong when compared to other conditions) and because we´ve literally only seen the first boss of the first wing so far.

If you want to recruit people for your raid group right now, I´d say make sure they are decent at playing multiple classes, have their characters geared properly and are willing to spend the time and effort to change gear, builds and class if needed.

The rest can be figured out later =)

2 Chronomancers ( alacrity + quickness + condition removal + reflects )
2 PS warriors ( might + banners + EA )
2 Heralds ( boon duration + might + additional projectile destruction if needed + additional condition removal if needed + perma protection if needed + stability + 150 ferocity )
4 Condition damage druids ( need condition damage + Glyph of Empowerment + Frost Spirit + Sun Spirit + Spotter )

EDIT: Does smokecloud from the smokescale blind? If not this comp will lack some blinds. Also this is all based off of what we have seen. As for alternative classes we will just have to wait and see how far away from optimal you can go.

EDIT 2: For the first fight I would actually take some condition damage engis for blinds

Skoigoth.9238:

I don´t want to stifle discussion here, but I don´t think we can have a reasonable meta discussion yet considering that with HoT there will probably be another round of balance changes to both core and elite specs (e.g. Herold seemed pretty OP), maybe also condition damage (Burning is too strong when compared to other conditions) and because we´ve literally only seen the first boss of the first wing so far.

If you want to recruit people for your raid group right now, I´d say make sure they are decent at playing multiple classes, have their characters geared properly and are willing to spend the time and effort to change gear, builds and class if needed.

The rest can be figured out later =)

I definitely don’t disagree with you, but it helps to be a little forward thinking. My guild is very chill, and we’ll probably just try it with whatever classes we have. I also as a rule only invite players, not classes. That said… I do have guild members asking me about what class I want them to play, or what we’ll need. Helps to be a little ahead of those questions.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

2 Chronomancers ( alacrity + quickness + condition removal + reflects )
2 PS warriors ( might + banners + EA )
2 Heralds ( boon duration + might + additional projectile destruction if needed + additional condition removal if needed + perma protection if needed + stability + 150 ferocity )
4 Condition damage druids ( need condition damage + Glyph of Empowerment + Frost Spirit + Sun Spirit + Spotter )

EDIT: Does smokecloud from the smokescale blind? If not this comp will lack some blinds. Also this is all based off of what we have seen. As for alternative classes we will just have to wait and see how far away from optimal you can go.

EDIT 2: For the first fight I would actually take some condition damage engis for blinds

So you don’t think a tank is necessary?

Garimeth.8725:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

2 Chronomancers ( alacrity + quickness + condition removal + reflects )
2 PS warriors ( might + banners + EA )
2 Heralds ( boon duration + might + additional projectile destruction if needed + additional condition removal if needed + perma protection if needed + stability + 150 ferocity )
4 Condition damage druids ( need condition damage + Glyph of Empowerment + Frost Spirit + Sun Spirit + Spotter )

EDIT: Does smokecloud from the smokescale blind? If not this comp will lack some blinds. Also this is all based off of what we have seen. As for alternative classes we will just have to wait and see how far away from optimal you can go.

EDIT 2: For the first fight I would actually take some condition damage engis for blinds

So you don’t think a tank is necessary?

You could have someone equip a few pieces of toughness gear for agro if you really need.

Garimeth.8725:

So you don’t think a tank is necessary?

A Herald will probably be the best tank, imo. It worked wonderfully as a Raid tank when I tried it in the beta, at least.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

2 Chrono
2 PS warriors
2 Heralds
4 Condition damage druids

yeah this is MUCH better than what dungeons ask for now:
2 Eles
1 PS War
1 Guard
1 Thief

/s

rogerwilko.6895:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

2 Chrono
2 PS warriors
2 Heralds
4 Condition damage druids

yeah this is MUCH better than what dungeons ask for now:
2 Eles
1 PS War
1 Guard
1 Thief

/s

Even with a 10 man buffing thing the new thing would be: 1 chronomancer, 1 PS warrior, 1 herald, 4 condition damage druids, and then 3 of the new highest DPS classes. If that’s what you were trying to say.

Just based on the current encounter we’ve seen, we know that condition damage at range is important, that buffing matters a lot, that too many buffers is a DPS loss, and that you want a modicum of base survivability without having to sacrifice gear-based DPS. Squishy Elementalists are a liability here, especially when Engineers do more damage to moving targets and have huge condition based damage for the red anomaly. Current thoughts are:

4 Sinister Engineers
3 Berserker Herald
1 Berserker Chronomancer
1 Berserker Warrior (+1 Knight’s Piece)
1 Berserker/Zealot Druid

Subgroups will be:
2 Engineer + 1 Herald
2 Engineer + 1 Herald
1 Warrior + 1 Herald
1 Chronomancer
1 Druid

10 Bearstaff Druids

#newmeta

Garimeth.8725:

I definitely don’t disagree with you, but it helps to be a little forward thinking. My guild is very chill, and we’ll probably just try it with whatever classes we have. I also as a rule only invite players, not classes. That said… I do have guild members asking me about what class I want them to play, or what we’ll need. Helps to be a little ahead of those questions.

Yeah, I can definitely see why a bit of forward-thinking theorizing can be beneficial to many people that haven´t already fully prepared for HoT. I for example started preping in March/April and now I am in a position to pretty much gear myself up for whatever is necessary.

I just don´t think anything can be set in stone yet, which is why I´m reluctant to make any definitive predictions about class compositions, specific builds etc.etc..

As a general advise I think it is good to have one character for each class you enjoy playing leveled, outfitted in current meta gear and with ~170 Hero Points ready to unlock the Elite Spec if necessary. What I personally also did is getting the stuff ready to make each a full set of ascended Sinister gear (I already had a medium one done) and some kind of “healer” set (Zealot´s, Cleric´s, …. ?) AND to have the gold/mats ready to make a third ascended set for the possibly new stat combinations that maybe will be introduced with HoT.

On top of that, a bit of theory-crafting surely won´t hurt I guess, so please continue =)

Rym.1469:

10 Bearstaff Druids

#newmeta

Daze for days, huh? :>

@French Fry, I think you may be over estimating the amount of condi damage that druids can do. I think they are a solid second choice, but i think engineers are the first for sure. That said I do agree it looks like the base comp is something like:

1 chrono
1 PS War
1 herald
1 healer (druid)
6 dps (and this would be a split of sinister/zerker builds)

I also remember reading about people saying that you need a tank for moving the boss around. If that ends up being the case I’m going to try and do that with a mace or hammer guardian – and failing that probably a rev or scrapper.

@Skoigoth, lol, conversely my guild is all returning players that have come back in the last 2 months, many of whom either have no ascended at all or only have the things they can get from laurels.

Garimeth.8725:

@French Fry, I think you may be over estimating the amount of condi damage that druids can do. I think they are a solid second choice, but i think engineers are the first for sure. That said I do agree it looks like the base comp is something like:

1 chrono
1 PS War
1 herald
1 healer (druid)
6 dps (and this would be a split of sinister/zerker builds)

I also remember reading about people saying that you need a tank for moving the boss around. If that ends up being the case I’m going to try and do that with a mace or hammer guardian – and failing that probably a rev or scrapper.

@Skoigoth, lol, conversely my guild is all returning players that have come back in the last 2 months, many of whom either have no ascended at all or only have the things they can get from laurels.

I would only take a sinister engi for a ranger/druid if you need blinds. So for the first fight I would do that. We have to wait and see the other fights, but you need to have a really good rotation to get out that top DPS. So my question is, in reality, how much damage is a sinister engi really doing? And you will always want at least two rangers for buffs.

As for a tank, all you need is for someone to equip a few pieces of knights gear.

Guardian, Ele and Thief are dead for raids or people think they are useless? I’m kinda offended because these are the 3 classes I play the most…

Amineo.8951:

Guardian, Ele and Thief are dead for raids or people think they are useless? I’m kinda offended because these are the 3 classes I play the most…

I main guardian, and you can bet I will be in my raid. I’m just still trying to decide where I fit in the roster best – I’m leaning towards a tanky spec.

Can’t the Druid run Salamander/Ice Drakes for tanking? Loads of Toughness, Vitality and access to Burning Burst with the Salamander, and Chill from Ice Drake for bearing down the Defiance bar.

Phah, nah. Smokescales are insanely tanky with alright damage and blue wyvern has more ccs (with cleaving aa, it appears, but lemme try it again in 5 days); red wyvern has even more tankiness because of kitten evade.
My pets weren’t dying at all during the raid; in fact, they were dying way less than my partymates.
I wonder if it was a bug, as they seemed immune to most punishing aoe damage…
… too good to be true…
So yeah, I ran wyvern/tiggro.

For raids I’m guessing something like this.

1. 3 Revenant(herald)
2. 2 Sinsiter engineer
3. Chronomancer
4. 2 PS warriors
5. 2 Druid

TheSwede.9512:

Can’t the Druid run Salamander/Ice Drakes for tanking? Loads of Toughness, Vitality and access to Burning Burst with the Salamander, and Chill from Ice Drake for bearing down the Defiance bar.

Your tank needs to move the boss in specific directions at specific times, using the AI might not be… recommended.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

So my question is, in reality, how much damage is a sinister engi really doing?

As far as I understand, weapon skills + grenade kit is about on par with ranger condi atm. Bomb kit is icing on the cake. And engi is one of the most affected classes by alacrity/quickness off chronomancers because of all the cooldowns it uses and shrapnel procs in grenade kite.

SlyDevil.3952:

TheSwede.9512:

Can’t the Druid run Salamander/Ice Drakes for tanking? Loads of Toughness, Vitality and access to Burning Burst with the Salamander, and Chill from Ice Drake for bearing down the Defiance bar.

Your tank needs to move the boss in specific directions at specific times, using the AI might not be… recommended.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

So my question is, in reality, how much damage is a sinister engi really doing?

As far as I understand, weapon skills + grenade kit is about on par with ranger condi atm. Bomb kit is icing on the cake. And engi is one of the most affected classes by alacrity/quickness off chronomancers because of all the cooldowns it uses and shrapnel procs in grenade kite.

Additionally, the engi can be further away and is less affected by the enemy moving around. Also, I agree on the comment about the AI tanking.

Amineo.8951:

Guardian, Ele and Thief are dead for raids or people think they are useless? I’m kinda offended because these are the 3 classes I play the most…

We have no idea what the other encounters may demand of players, and the only context we can theorycraft around right now is the anomaly encounter. It’s entirely likely that they will have valid roles in those future encounters / wings, especially Elementalists.