Guild Wars 2

I’m thinking about starting a necro or ranger for purely dungeons and fractals at 80. I know neither of them is very desired but I already have a warrior, guardian feels clunky, and ele is too squishy for me. So is pet/minion ai ok in dungeons? and are either of them too squishy? What would you choose and why?

Btw I plan on running meta builds like sword/warhorn for ranger or dagger/warhorn for necro, not noob bearbow, etc

Sword/warhorn ranger all the way. The spotter + frost spirit damage bonus is significantly better than anything a necro can bring.

Dunecoon.5134:

ISo is pet/minion ai ok in dungeons?

No, but seeing as you’ll run proper builds, you won’t be running AI heavy builds.
Personally I would prefer a ranger, I feel they bring more to the table in Dungeons and especially fractals. Necro lacks any aoe/cleave apart from two wells, which are on relatively high CDs, they also lack a proper blast finisher. Necro might be situationally useful for blinds but even then, a good guardian can do the same job. Meanwhile, a ranger can bring Spirit of Frost (70% chance to do 10% more damage on hit) Spotter (+150 precision at level 80) and a cat that buffs 5 stacks of might for a short time, and then Warhorn 5 which is a blast, and grants fury. They also have a waterfield on a relatively short CD.

Necro would be safer than ranger in high fractals. Goodluck trying to max melee with a ranger xD.

ranger frost spirit has a 10 sec ICD for it’s passive effect. i can’t find any skill worse than this, and this is by not mentioning that they die alot. (unless tooltip is wrong)

i’d go necro just because of the fact that claiming they can’t hit multiple targets in one skill is wrong. it’s easy to blast several mobs with lifeblast.

lol I cant believe that account name isn’t restricted, and more that it remains unreported.

Rock on

lol @ OldSomalia, I take it you’re a Russel peters fan to? And I’m not asking in terms of “whats better atm or more fotm” but rather, which feels like you’re contributing more to the group? which feels more fluid? and more importantly, which is less squishy?

I say necro contributes more to the group at high level fractals. ‘The group’ here is consider both pug and semi-organized groups.

Swagginator.3246:

ranger frost spirit has a 10 sec ICD for it’s passive effect. i can’t find any skill worse than this, and this is by not mentioning that they die alot. (unless tooltip is wrong)

i’d go necro just because of the fact that claiming they can’t hit multiple targets in one skill is wrong. it’s easy to blast several mobs with lifeblast.

Frost Spirit has no ICD. It’s also easy to place just outside your stack and it will survive jus fine. And even if it dies, it will keep giving the Spirit buff, until there is only 10s CD left (might be a bug).

Spoj The Second.7680:

Necro would be safer than ranger in high fractals. Goodluck trying to max melee with a ranger xD.

Anything is safer than sword ranger, then again I feel gs ranger would contribute at least as much as a necro can.

Swagginator.3246:

ranger frost spirit has a 10 sec ICD for it’s passive effect. i can’t find any skill worse than this, and this is by not mentioning that they die alot. (unless tooltip is wrong)

i’d go necro just because of the fact that claiming they can’t hit multiple targets in one skill is wrong. it’s easy to blast several mobs with lifeblast.

Frost spirit effect has no icd. I don’t think anyone has said necros brings zero multitarget dmg but lifeblast doesn’t make their cleave/aoe good.

Iris Ng.9845:

I say necro contributes more to the group at high level fractals. ‘The group’ here is consider both pug and semi-organized groups.

I would be interested to hear why you feel like it. Ranger brings water and fire fields, aoe cc, pulls (as in grouping enemies), reflects, weakness, situational tanking and unique dmg boosts and occasional blast finishers. I admit my list gives the impression rangers would be better than they actually are since several of those points are covered better with other professions, but all of those things are still there.

I don’t hate necro but I do think they are just extremely weak at the moment. While ranger certainly isn’t one of the top professions their potential is in a whole other region compared to necro, again, in my opinion.

Konu.1826:

I would be interested to hear why you feel like it. Ranger brings water and fire fields, aoe cc, pulls (as in grouping enemies), reflects, weakness, situational tanking and unique dmg boosts and occasional blast finishers. I admit my list gives the impression rangers would be better than they actually are since several of those points are covered better with other professions, but all of those things are still there.

I don’t hate necro but I do think they are just extremely weak at the moment. While ranger certainly isn’t one of the top professions their potential is in a whole other region compared to necro, again, in my opinion.

The water field is nice yes but fire field? I doubt any ranger is gona use a torch in a fight. Reflect is melee range so everyone has to stack really tight. we can NOT stack vul well, specially on groups. Pets are dumb and can only reliably be use for boon spams, but on bosses like old tom that bear makes a great wall of health to stand behind. Sword auto is very difficult at keep at max melee range, major con there. Frost spirit dies a lot (mostly an issue with bad pugs). What CC? longbow 5 doesn’t really count in fact long bow is really hard to get best use out of.

Necro stacks vul and has weakness so the boost groups DMG and reduce enemies DMG. They can eat some damage. AOE blind, though I’d rather spam the golem into a wall. Also i think necros are just below ranger when it comes to DPS. Oh and no sword rooting :P

Now mind you I’ve play my ranger A LOT in fractals and I only have a lvl 38 necro so I don’t know all the pros/cons of Necro. Ranger though has a lot of cons Id take a necro over ranger because I know they have any easier time doing fractals.

at a basic level, (I have and play both classes)

Necromancer has more personal and direct damage and sustain. does not bring party buffing or support.

Ranger brings Party buffing and support but is finicky for fights, i.e. controlled melee range being cited here.

Grande scheme.. in my opinion either will work, if you have a fairly steady group you can build off of each other. and still have a good time. with the CdI on the ranger going on, who knows what will happen to them here soon. they may become far and away the better class or they may get bombed. (shrug) They are both usefull in their own way. play them both and have fun with it and develop your runner to fit the needs of the group you are in.

Judging from the track record so far between Anet and the ranger class, I would be willing to bet the fix for rangers will be to give them a paper sword and a rubberband and a box of paperclips as a bow…..oh and remove the pet and not add the removed dps back to them :P

As for which class, my vote would be for neither unless you don’t mind being booted from groups here and there. But if I had to choose, either/or would work imo. This is coming from someone who has a fully geared necro and ranger, both of which are harvest bots now. I play either my guard or ele for dungeons.

Embrace The Bold.7619:

Necro stacks vul and has weakness so the boost groups DMG and reduce enemies DMG. They can eat some damage. AOE blind, though I’d rather spam the golem into a wall. Also i think necros are just below ranger when it comes to DPS. Oh and no sword rooting :P

Now mind you I’ve play my ranger A LOT in fractals and I only have a lvl 38 necro so I don’t know all the pros/cons of Necro. Ranger though has a lot of cons Id take a necro over ranger because I know they have any easier time doing fractals.

Why would you not consider torch? Not all the time but it does have it’s uses in fractals. Yes you can’t max melee range with sword and that sucks. While the reflect isn’t as good as mesmer’s or guardian’s reflect, it’s way better than no reflect at all. Your pets can aoe fear, immobilize daze, cure conditions and weaken for example, and I really don’t feel like pulling those off is hard. In addition your axe has cc, with potential to group up mobs.

As you said necro brings vuln, blinds and cc and that comes with little aoe dmg/cleave and ok single target damage. Thing is, considering necro doesn’t shine in any of those over all other professions, they just don’t add up even close to ranger’s level. Yes, necro pug might be a lot more likely to make use of his skill set than ranger. I was talking about potential, and I don’t see much potential in necro.

Well, at high level fractals, the aoe vuln, blind, condi removal and cc is really valuable to glassiest classes like thief and ele. Chances are the other party members already provide cleave, it’s down to staying alive a bit more comfortably at melee range to kill everything. For example, stacking against the horde of chanters in cliffside. I think necro have some unblockable attacks that works really well against some mobs like the supercharged golems in the Aetherblade fractal. They also have the flesh golem to tank pretty well. Maybe I haven’t come across a decent ranger to compare with my resident necro who is very good at her job. So yeah, my opinion is biased.

That is totally understandable, necro and ranger are so seldom seen in general. In ranger’s case it doesn’t help there are close to no decent guides out there afaik, and the ones that exist basically focus on maximizing damage in boss encounters. That isn’t a bad thing and they certainly do work. However, they are tailored for dungeon boss fights mostly, where feline pets are an obvious choice. Different pet choices offer a lot especially for trash fights (fractals). Swapping and managing pets accordingly is something people overlook. For example, ranger can get 2s cone daze (much like necro warhorn 4) and 10s aoe weakness from pets on demand, which I would consider more valuable in certain fights than the high single target damage from feline pets.

Well both classes have some situational nice stuff for fractals. I wouldnt really say one is better than the other. They both have flaws. Fractals is the one place where necro can actually be semi useful compared to their dungeon performance. I just dont like the idea of being forced to use gs on ranger.

Well they said they will fix ranger sword auto in the next balance patch so it can be actually interrupted. As for what to bring i’m sitting somewere in the grey zone. Necro is pretty good with singe target dps and condi manipulation, and ranger is tricky. If you know your class (ranger i’m looking at you) and manage your pets/utilities you can perform decently in fractals/dungeons.

PS: Ranger has a fire field on 15s cd, the fire trap if you don’t want to carry a torch

Well, I wouldn’t consider either of those if I was looking for an optimized fractal group. If anything I would say ranger is weaker in fractals than dungeons and as you said necro performs better in fractals compared to dungeons. For op though, I stick to my opinion of ranger being the superior option when considering potential in dungeon/fractal content.

That being said, since op was concerned about ele being too squishy, I’d also like to add that especially in fractals both ranger and necro have some handicaps when it comes to survivability.

I doubt sword fix will be enough to bring it on line with other melee weapons in the game. My guess is max melee range still won’t work, but hopefully both dodge as well as all weapon skill evades will start working on demand. That would be a huge boost for survivability.

Also, the fact that fire trap needs to be triggered for field and lasts way shorter time than torch field makes it even more situational than torch for me.

Agreed with you Konu. Fire trap is situational, but i prefer it over torch (dunno, but torch feels lackluster, at least for me and not worth to take over axe offhand or even dagger). Well we will have to wait for the CDI results and see what happens to the ranger (really wish i could take my ranger into dungeons/high level fractals without ppl asking “bowbear?” even if i have a mh sword/axe).

PS. Sry for the rant

theodor.3480:

Well they said they will fix ranger sword auto in the next balance patch so it can be actually interrupted.

Where did you hear that?
And it’s a 25 sec cd on the fire field. Still, powerful weapon with an lh.

I’ll look for the post later and link it, but i think it was the preview for the balance patch for march the 18th. Can’t find the link atm

theodor.3480:

I’ll look for the post later and link it, but i think it was the preview for the balance patch for march the 18th. Can’t find the link atm

Those were fake leaked patch notes.

Aww crap. And i thought there was a glimmer of hope. goes into a corner and starts crying

I think sword is on the list of things to be looked at in ranger CDI, those changes won’t see the light anywhere near 18th march though.

idk but as a power necro in spvp, the 5 k crits LifeBlast per sec sure felt nice compared to the 6-7 k rapid fire casted for 4 seconds about and 10 sec ICD.

yes sorry (although it’s not my fault) about 10 sec ICD part, it says 10 sec ICD in tooltip but in wiki it’s mentioned the tooltip is wrong.

You’re gravely misinformed if you think Rapid Fire is a Burst Skill for Ranger. Or a DPS skill in any way, shape or form. It’s not. Furthermore, 5k DPS is deplorably low by PvE standards, which is one of the many reasons you can’t hope to translate sPvP to PvE.
Not to mention, that DPS is nothing compared to Necro’s Dagger AA or Ranger’s 1h Sword AA, -even- with 100% crit chance in DS. I’d look up Spoj’s Necro guide for PvE and Dungeoneering if you -insist- on bringing a Necro into dungeons (Which, really, should only be the case if you don’t have any other Profession at lvl 80, because of Necro’s lack of Team Synergy and Support.)
Ranger brings two unique Buffs to the team (Spotter and Frost Spirit), Perma-Fury and Decent Might, making them good Offensive Supporters. They also bring a long-lasting Water field that removes conditions, and a reflect. Necro brings none of these, barely any defensive buffs, Paltry excuses for Heals in their Life-steals (Which you have to Trait, in trees that are otherwise of no interest to you) and only decent Vulnerability and Blind. Both of those latter points can be done by a Guard or a Thief, and they both bring better support than the Necro. They -can- pump out pretty good single target DPS, with a smaller army of Minions out, though they tend to die pretty quickly against AoE’s. Furthermore, Necros lacks Cleave, which is situational in sPvP but downright essential in PvE.

TL;DR – Ranger > Necro in dungeons (Generally speaking, as mentioned in other posts Necro has a few uses but more often than not, Ranger takes it.)

OP, have you considered other classes other than Ranger or Necro? I’d suggest you also try out Mesmer or Thief, as they are desired.

TheSwede.9512:

You’re gravely misinformed if you think Rapid Fire is a Burst Skill for Ranger. Or a DPS skill in any way, shape or form. It’s not. Furthermore, 5k DPS is deplorably low by PvE standards, which is one of the many reasons you can’t hope to translate sPvP to PvE.
Not to mention, that DPS is nothing compared to Necro’s Dagger AA or Ranger’s 1h Sword AA, -even- with 100% crit chance in DS. I’d look up Spoj’s Necro guide for PvE and Dungeoneering if you -insist- on bringing a Necro into dungeons (Which, really, should only be the case if you don’t have any other Profession at lvl 80, because of Necro’s lack of Team Synergy and Support.)
Ranger brings two unique Buffs to the team (Spotter and Frost Spirit), Perma-Fury and Decent Might, making them good Offensive Supporters. They also bring a long-lasting Water field that removes conditions, and a reflect. Necro brings none of these, barely any defensive buffs, Paltry excuses for Heals in their Life-steals (Which you have to Trait, in trees that are otherwise of no interest to you) and only decent Vulnerability and Blind. Both of those latter points can be done by a Guard or a Thief, and they both bring better support than the Necro. They -can- pump out pretty good single target DPS, with a smaller army of Minions out, though they tend to die pretty quickly against AoE’s. Furthermore, Necros lacks Cleave, which is situational in sPvP but downright essential in PvE.

TL;DR – Ranger > Necro in dungeons (Generally speaking, as mentioned in other posts Necro has a few uses but more often than not, Ranger takes it.)

Pretty good breakdown here. You deserve to be quoted on all threads that try to claim necros to be useful in PvE.

Well done. :P

@ the swede, the damage numbers are just based on spvp numbers. im sure you could simply imagine how the numbers increase when going to pve, whats the big issue?

i’ve only played the classes in spvp, never geared them to exotics in pve. just mentioning that in my experience, being a bunker guardian in spvp, felt more pressure from power necro than from a power ranger.
i’m mentioning one point only, i know they lack supporting since they only have dark fields or poison. almost all dungeon runners prefers stacking might anyway. i personally roll guardian/warrior for dungeons.

Dunecoon.5134:

I’m thinking about starting a necro or ranger for purely dungeons and fractals at 80. I know neither of them is very desired but I already have a warrior, guardian feels clunky, and ele is too squishy for me. So is pet/minion ai ok in dungeons? and are either of them too squishy? What would you choose and why?

Btw I plan on running meta builds like sword/warhorn for ranger or dagger/warhorn for necro, not noob bearbow, etc

I would say Necro cause rangers are so under powered