Guild Wars 2

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Everyone hates dying. But the downed state just makes the PvE aspect easier overall. There’s very little “fear” of character death. Just another way the game is more casual than GW1.

The dyes…what’s not to understand? My main has got a few cool looking dyes over the past year, and I’ve opened every single one of them that dropped. No Abyss, 1 Celestial, no LS dyes. Can’t buy them with laurels because I need those for ascended trinkets. Can’t buy them with gold because I really only do W3 and I’m poor.

So, even though my main has a ton of dyes to choose from, it took a year.

My alts, on the other hand, even though 2 are 80, have very limited dyes to choose from. And again, opened every one they got as a drop. A few are neat, but nothing like the pricey ones that do make a difference in appearance. Those high-end dyes are expensive for a reason, they look awesome.

For a game that prides itself on aesthetics, I miss the boat on that. I don’t really care personally, that’s not why I play. But it’s a factor nontheless.

note: now if they made them purchasable with Karma…that would be ok.

So what you’re saying is someone who has no gold and has not enough laurals and has tons of alts has more problem getting a few particular rare shades of dyes. Gotcha.

But then, people who run dungeons have enough money to buy a dye once if they want to and then once on another character. You act as if the say 20 gold for that dye is a huge amount of money. It’s not.

And it can drop. I’ve had a couple of abyss dye drops since launch. One I put on a character, one I sold.

But the bottom line is in Guild Wars 1, you would have had to buy 5 black dyes or wait for six black dye drops. In Guild Wars 1 there was only one shade of dark/black-like dye.

Here there are many very close to black dyes you could get much cheaper.

And buying five black dyes in Guild Wars 1…if you change your armor, you have to buy them again.

So for what you say to be true, a couple of things have to be true.

1. You have to want abyss dye and no other. If you only want to dye your character black and you only want to dye every character black, I’m not sure the fault is with the system.

2. You have to have no money for dye because you only play one aspect of the game. It doesn’t take that long to make 20 gold. In fact, I can probably farm 20 gold in this game faster than I could farm enough to buy 5 black dyes in Guild Wars 1.

Sounds to me like you like one shade of dye and you don’t want to play parts of the game that makes money.

I’m not thinking this was better at all in Guild Wars 1 and it certainly wasn’t better for me. At least here there are other dark shades that are approaching black, without spending the money on abyss.

Curby.4897:

I thought it was neat to see the giant Searing crystal in the middle of ashford.

Yes,

The original art team and map designers deserve a medal for their work and neat details around the world.

Sometimes it makes want to “day-of-the-tentacle-it” and log my char from GW1 and bury some of the skins to dig them out in GW2 :P

Shame its all stained now with all the “wowish” armors (lava, fire, neon lights, fairy wings, lightsabers, etc)

Vayne

Eh, 20 gold is a lot for me. It takes me weeks to get that much if I try. I’ve logged over 4k hours on this game since launch, and never been above 60g. Besides, why should wanting to play one aspect of the game mean I have to be poor?

I never said it had to be Abyss dye, don’t put words in my mouth. All I said was my selection was very limited because of the part of the game I chose to play. Had I been someone who actually likes mindless farming, that would be different. But I’m not.

Besides, you’re oversimplifying the issue to better serve your argument. There were a lot fewer armors available in GW1, each piece of armor could only take one color, and there were like 10 colors. If black wasn’t your color, they were all cheap. Even so, it took less relative money to dye a GW1 toon in black than it takes to buy a few top tier dyes here.

It’s not a 1:1 ratio; if black was the only high-end dye in GW1, and there were only like 10 total colors, then the top 10% of dyes in GW2 by price would be equal to that…not just one Abyss/Celestial/etc dye. The dyes vary in price because of how they look on your armor, it’s not just arbitrary.

Ofc I could use an off-shade of black, that’s fine. But like I said, this game is about aesthetics(not my choice) and the cooler dyes are hard to get.

“So what you’re saying is someone who has no gold and has not enough laurals and has tons of alts has more problem getting a few particular rare shades of dyes. Gotcha.”
Well…yes, that’s what I’m saying. Only add the amount of hours I’ve played the game, too. What’s wrong with that statement?

Mesket.5728:

Shame its all stained now with all the “wowish” armors (lava, fire, neon lights, fairy wings, lightsabers, etc)

A-friggin-men, brother.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Eh, 20 gold is a lot for me. It takes me weeks to get that much if I try. I’ve logged over 4k hours on this game since launch, and never been above 60g. Besides, why should wanting to play one aspect of the game mean I have to be poor?

I never said it had to be Abyss dye, don’t put words in my mouth. All I said was my selection was very limited because of the part of the game I chose to play. Had I been someone who actually likes mindless farming, that would be different. But I’m not.

Besides, you’re oversimplifying the issue to better serve your argument. There were a lot fewer armors available in GW1, each piece of armor could only take one color, and there were like 10 colors. If black wasn’t your color, they were all cheap. Even so, it took less relative money to dye a GW1 toon in black than it takes to buy a few top tier dyes here.

It’s not a 1:1 ratio; if black was the only high-end dye in GW1, and there were only like 10 total colors, then the top 10% of dyes in GW2 by price would be equal to that…not just one Abyss/Celestial/etc dye. The dyes vary in price because of how they look on your armor, it’s not just arbitrary.

Ofc I could use an off-shade of black, that’s fine. But like I said, this game is about aesthetics(not my choice) and the cooler dyes are hard to get.

“So what you’re saying is someone who has no gold and has not enough laurals and has tons of alts has more problem getting a few particular rare shades of dyes. Gotcha.”
Well…yes, that’s what I’m saying. Only add the amount of hours I’ve played the game, too. What’s wrong with that statement?

There are 400 dyes in Guild Wars 2 and most of them are dirt cheap. If you don’t care about black dye, your argument loses far more potency. I assumed you wanted black dye, because most dyes are a couple of silver on the trading post.

If you’re in WvW, even if you’re just gathering mats as you go and selling them on the marketplace, you’d have plenty of money for dyes. Have you even tried pricing them?

Vayne

Most mats are dirt cheap. The ones that aren’t I need for crafting ingredients, foods/oils, superior siege, etc. I do sell them when I manage to accumulate an extra stack, but that’s a slow process. Besides, unless you’re in EB, most of the nodes are T1 or 2.

Yes, most dyes are a few silver…if you don’t mind having twenty-odd shades of pale green or blue or yellow. Most dyes you sample are fairly drab. There are some cheap, nice dyes out there I’ll admit, even starter ones(I’m lookin at you Heirloom!), but for the dyes that really shine, the vast majority of them are pricey. Abyss was just an example, I didn’t think you would latch onto that so tight.

I don’t think that A-Net forgot the GW1 fans. Everyone has different opinios about the game.
I am quite happy with GW2 most of the time. It is a different game than GW1 and that is fine. Of course there are sometimes things I am “missing” or are nostalgic about (like some armor designs). And of course sometimes there are updates which I don’t agree with (like this boring and tenacious crafting to 500), but this is not because it was different in GW1, I don’t agree because it is not fun for me. After the first few weeks, when I really accepted that this is a new game and not some shiny polished GW1 I got quite satisfied playing GW2, so no A-Net did not forget me as GW1 player.

As a Guild Wars 1 fan, it would make me very happy if they brought back Nicholas the Traveler.

Smith.1826:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Everyone hates dying. But the downed state just makes the PvE aspect easier overall. There’s very little “fear” of character death. Just another way the game is more casual than GW1.

I think they could definitely add in some features that would encourage players to die less, maybe like a bonus at the end of a dungeon if no one was down or dead for the run, etc.

The trouble with that idea is that as soon as someone goes down, that player or the entire group (depending on how it’s setup) may want to restart the dungeon, possibly because someone got hit with some bad-luck criticals. That gives serious dungeon farmers, who are likely the ones most interested in a hardcore, no-downs mode, even more reason to screen out less elite players, or to kick players who screw up their perfect dungeon run. I think the unintended consequences might shake out to be worse than the benefit.

I can’t comment on how it plays in PvP/WvW, but I really like the downed system. It gives battles more drama in a very organic way, much more than, say, “krait pulls you, second krait critical hits you, dead, way point” would. It does make PvE easier than it would be without it, certainly, but it makes PvE easier in a more interesting way. There’s still the fear that if I die, I’ll have to waypoint and have damaged armor, but it gives me some extra strategic decisions. It won’t win me a fight I’m outmatched on (because I won’t have anyone close enough to dying, or if I do, I’m just going down again until I’m dead,) but it gives more excitement to even matches.

From an angle that might be frequently looked over about the downed state, I carry around Signet of Renewal a lot, and I like how it requires me to act quickly if I want to revive downed players, since it can’t revive dead ones, unlike, say, Resurrection Signet, which didn’t have that ticking clock to put pressure on me.

Redenaz

Well, the downed state is GW2’s version of healing…as strange as that sounds. Think about it. Since they don’t have dedicated healers or rez skills in this game, they had to come up with a way to mitigate all the generic player rezing that would be going on in dungeons and such. It essentially elongates your encounters and gives you more chances to stay alive and win the engagement.

It’s a product of having no trinity—no healing class. It’s an interesting idea, and you can tell they put some time into it. And I understand why they did it. But it’s broken in W3 as a viable mechanic.

When you have players exclusively using food buffs that specifically help you revive faster after being downed in a zerg, you know you have a problem. Players are using that mechanic to their advantage, and it takes away from the core purpose of the game-mode. At least separate it from PvP and PvE.

Mimir.4690:

As a Guild Wars 1 fan, it would make me very happy if they brought back Nicholas the Traveler.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gravestone_

Very difficult to bring him back considering he’s in the grave.
Now someone like him, the idea of a traveling merchant hiding around certain parts of Tyria would be fun.

Heck I thought they would do that with Ameranth!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ameranth

Her and her hound walking around Tyria giving us things from her travels if we help trade.

The best analogy I can make here is that GW2 will be like a Final Fantasy game. Shares same names, locations and concepts, but is fundamentally different than its predecessor(s) and it might even be unfair to expect a full sequel.

Seriously, after I adapted that thought model, I became much less jaded about GW2 failing to meet GW1 expections.

Redenaz.8631:

Smith.1826:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Everyone hates dying. But the downed state just makes the PvE aspect easier overall. There’s very little “fear” of character death. Just another way the game is more casual than GW1.

I think they could definitely add in some features that would encourage players to die less, maybe like a bonus at the end of a dungeon if no one was down or dead for the run, etc.

The trouble with that idea is that as soon as someone goes down, that player or the entire group (depending on how it’s setup) may want to restart the dungeon, possibly because someone got hit with some bad-luck criticals. That gives serious dungeon farmers, who are likely the ones most interested in a hardcore, no-downs mode, even more reason to screen out less elite players, or to kick players who screw up their perfect dungeon run. I think the unintended consequences might shake out to be worse than the benefit.

If you don’t think your group is up to snuff, you wouldn’t have to enable it. But if you do want more of a challenge, this would be a small step toward finally appreciating and rewarding skill – of which this game does little. If the idea were to be expanded upon they could implement a system for dungeons similar to the gambits seen in the Queen’s Gauntlet.

Of course it’s not catering to the more “casual” player, but such is the price of challenging content.

Ah, yes, making it optional, like gambits, would fix the problem I was thinking of. Fair enough, Smith, fair enough.

Oh yeah totally make it optional, sorry if I didnt get that across initially!

Relentliss.2170:

with an Aion grind

EL OH EL

You must have played on a private server or Aion must have massively changed level progressing from the first months of release because that is BULL FECES.

Traveller.7496:

The best analogy I can make here is that GW2 will be like a Final Fantasy game. Shares same names, locations and concepts, but is fundamentally different than its predecessor(s) and it might even be unfair to expect a full sequel.

Seriously, after I adapted that thought model, I became much less jaded about GW2 failing to meet GW1 expections.

I think this is what we all must realize. GW1 is dead and is never coming back, GW2 is not a replacement. I always hoped that with every update they would ‘fix’ GW2 and add Heroes Ascent, GvG, Guild Halls, cosmetic grind only, and pretty much everything I LOVED about GW1. But I now realize that I must let this dream go.

R. I. P. in peace GW1, 2012. You will be missed.

Nobody forgot the GW1 fans.

The OP asked for thoughts, so-

Not everyone who played GW1 wanted GW2 to copy it. I played GW1 but I was not a fan. I played to get the HoM points I wanted and see the lore but I did not enjoy the gameplay.

GW2 impressed me during its development because ArenaNet was fixing many of the issues from GW1. I think they’ve succeeded because I’m enjoy the gameplay in GW2 far more than I ever did GW1.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Traveller.7496:

The best analogy I can make here is that GW2 will be like a Final Fantasy game. Shares same names, locations and concepts, but is fundamentally different than its predecessor(s) and it might even be unfair to expect a full sequel.

Seriously, after I adapted that thought model, I became much less jaded about GW2 failing to meet GW1 expections.

I think this is what we all must realize. GW1 is dead and is never coming back, GW2 is not a replacement. I always hoped that with every update they would ‘fix’ GW2 and add Heroes Ascent, GvG, Guild Halls, cosmetic grind only, and pretty much everything I LOVED about GW1. But I now realize that I must let this dream go.

R. I. P. in peace GW1, 2012. You will be missed.

GW2 is supposed to be a sequel. Supposed to expand on the lore already made and include returning elements.

All the connection we have are the ruins. Nothing else but ruins. I never want GW2 to be GW1, but if GW1 did something perfectly, had a perfectly working reward system in Pvp for example, why trash that and come up with something that is totally flawed? That’s what i will never understand.

Gandarel.5091:

GW2 is supposed to be a sequel. Supposed to expand on the lore already made and include returning elements.

Focusing on the lore part of your post, but I think they’ve approached it decently so far.
Ogden acknowledges that there was a group of heroes who stopped the Destroyers from rising up fully, Jora’s statue shows how she went on to become a big darn hero to Norn in this generation, we even see a descendant of hers in the Vigil.

Going further back, the White Mantle are mentioned in a Human Personal Story.
Durmand went to create a whole new order based on what he did best in old Lion’s Arch.

There are plenty of old places you can visit, granted some are under water.
Even Pyre Fierceshot gets a statue in Charr lands.

We see the graves of many old warriors from GW1, we even see some of their descendants (or even folks inspired by them design wise) if you talk with some NPCs.

Even Elona has their little section of DR and the Gates of Ebonhawke tease us with access to the Crystal Desert. Yes they are closed, but it is acknowledged.

For a game where they are focusing on Tyria continent first and well over two centuries into the future of the first title, they have a decent start in showing that this game has a history. The thing I like about it is even though the history is recognized, it isn’t hamstringing this title from trying to make its own history as well.

anyone whos going to be completely honest about it cant just say ANET sucks for leaving this that and the other out of GW2 that was in GW1 when you’re still here . There has to be a few things in GW2 you like that’s keeping you around . With that said im gonna list the good and the bad in my opinion

The Good

Living Story
They have actually pulled this off pretty well in my opinion although the rewards could use some work

Environment
Now I’m not just talking about terrain here but the music as well and I personally think its been done fantastically. It saddens me to see whats become of some of the old places like ToA but such is life .

Trading Post
THANK YOU!!!!!! Praise Lyssa no more trade spam . Possibly one of the biggest annoyances of GW1 gone

Waypoints and Asuran Gates
Never a bad thing

Uninstanced
It makes the world more alive which is never a bad thing

The Bad

Personal Story
Its kinda forgettable. I could recite whole cut scenes from GW1 off the top of my head they were so memorable and i dont really get that with GW2 . On top of this GW1 had a leg up on GW 2 cause you could go back to any mission at any time so if you just felt like helping a random newbie with Great Northern Wall or Fort Ranik you could maybe making a friend along the way.

Trahearne
Do i even need to say anything ?

80 is too darned high

I dont know about others but i usually burn out on leveling a character between levels 50-60 so i feel that 60 perhaps should have been the max.

Too few utilities

I get that it would have made balancing a little harder but come on throw a dog a bone here . With as many skills as as we had in GW1 we should have had a few more choices of utility skills than we’ve got .

Im gonna end on this note . Having played GW1 for 7 years i saw its good points and its bad points ( build diversity my centaur it was all PvX wiki) and quite frankly im gonna give GW2 a fair shake . As GW1 players we have to remember that GW2 takes place 200 some years later than that of prophesies and the world and lore is going to change a lot in that time frame. (and was doing so at the end of prophesies when the volcano was about to erupt at the end of Hell’s Precipice ) Instead of saying they’ve abandoned us and strictly looking through the nostalgia goggles weigh the pros and cons of the things in the game as a whole .

There are many “dead zones” in the game right now, where almost no one is in them. Why? Because most players have already moved beyond the level 40-50 range of that zone.

GW2 is also not alt-character friendly at all. Just equipping one character with all ascended gear takes forever. This further lead to this “dead zone” problem we see. Back in GW1, we could find parties for missions even years after the game’s release. Why? Because many players play alt characters, since GW1 was super alt friendly.

Gandarel.5091:

I dare to say more than 50% of the GW2 playerbase came from GW1. Or at least 40%. Sometimes i even see random dungeon teams with 5/5 GW1 titles. They make up most of the real core and loyal base.

Still, they don’t continue anything we loved in GW1, however we were promised to have “all we loved in GW1” – manifesto, anyone?

Yet it feels odd. If the community is asking for a GW1 feature, they do the opposite. Do Arenanet devs feel like GW1 isn’t their product, because most of the devs are new to the company?

For example, build teamplates. or GvG. PvP as a whole, is the opposite of GW1’s PvP – lack of variety, no rewards no resources.( Or Cantha! >_> )

Or the birthday gifts… EVERYONE was expecting a nice minipet pack. Instead, we got a Jennah, some booster (which was bugged and totally destroyed the non-existing Pvp economy) and an useless scroll. However… surely a coincidence but the gemstore happened to have a new minipet pack at the 1st anniversary. Feels like they were aiming for Gw1 people to buy their own gifts for money.

Don’t forget the landscape – can you tell me any kind of place that was presented in GW1 and is not in ruins? Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Any thoughts?

IMO, they not only have been ignoring GW1 fans, they have been ignoring GW2 fans. It really feels like the current line up of developers didn’t like/understand/grasp the manifesto and the strengths of the core game at release and have been working hard to mimic established, failed MMO design strategies, rather than build on the strong foundation they were handed.

(The Birthday gifts are something I still find completely baffling, kitten much good will could have been gained at almost no cost, but they chose instead to build bad-will with the player base for no logical reason).

I also agree that sometimes it feels like there is a lot of deliberate thumbing of noses at customers, whether they be GW1 vets or GW2 converts.

That’s how I’ve been made to feel by Arenanet over the course of 2013 and I know I’m not the only one.

With the apparent rejection of GW1 and Launch Day GW2 / The Manifesto, I don’t even see a clear definition of their envisioned alternative. We get a steady stream of fairly vapid temporary content, but if you ignore the failed “Living Story” strategy, I don’t see any actual sense of direction on the part of the studio. It really seems as if Living Story is paycheck justifying “busy work” while they grasp at straws trying to figure out how to actually build on the phenomenal core game.

It’s clear that key people left the studio after launch and the subsequent reorganization of the studio has led to an extremely dysfunctional entity. There is little cognizance on the part of ANet as to the failings of the last year. A deaf ear is turned to the fan base on the really important issues of ongoing game development and we certainly can’t do anything as customers to fix their disfunction at the internal structural level.

Sadly, I think a significant portion of the player base is going to have to walk away from the current game before someone, somewhere with in Arenanet or at NCSoft will take the necessary steps to tear down and rebuild leadership at Arenanet.

Adine.2184:

( build diversity my centaur it was all PvX wiki)

Any game, sport, competitive activity will always be min/ maxed and optimised.

Does that mean only professional players can enjoy a game of soccer?
Does it mean chubby people can’t run a NY city marathon at their own pace?

No, it doesn’t.
Of course there was the PvX wiki but that doesn’t mean you had to use it, you could come up with a myriad of your own builds truly unique to your playstyle and enjoy the game just fine with that.

Here I cannot do that, I can not remove and replace Thief D/D skills No. 3 & 4 from my skillbar even though I don’t use them. I can’t make a build that resonates with how I play, because no matter what over half the skills on my bar are there regardless whether I want them there or not.

Oh and expanding the lore vastly differs from shoving some things up the attic and blatantly retconning others.

Gandarel.5091:

Charming Rogue.8071:

Traveller.7496:

The best analogy I can make here is that GW2 will be like a Final Fantasy game. Shares same names, locations and concepts, but is fundamentally different than its predecessor(s) and it might even be unfair to expect a full sequel.

Seriously, after I adapted that thought model, I became much less jaded about GW2 failing to meet GW1 expections.

I think this is what we all must realize. GW1 is dead and is never coming back, GW2 is not a replacement. I always hoped that with every update they would ‘fix’ GW2 and add Heroes Ascent, GvG, Guild Halls, cosmetic grind only, and pretty much everything I LOVED about GW1. But I now realize that I must let this dream go.

R. I. P. in peace GW1, 2012. You will be missed.

GW2 is supposed to be a sequel. Supposed to expand on the lore already made and include returning elements.

All the connection we have are the ruins. Nothing else but ruins. I never want GW2 to be GW1, but if GW1 did something perfectly, had a perfectly working reward system in Pvp for example, why trash that and come up with something that is totally flawed? That’s what i will never understand.

I’m not sure how you can say we just have ruins. I mean…Ascalon was already in ruins in Guild Wars 1, wasn’kitten Ruins of Rin? Breeched Wall?

Orr was already sunken into the sea.

Most of the ruins we have is Lion’s Arch itself, because Beetletun and the Ascalon Settlement have both grown.

I’d probably be more sympathetic to your statement if Prophecies has anything that even remotely resembled a city in the first place…but it doesn’t.

I think the old Lion’s Arch looked more like an encampment than a city, and I was very disappointed when I first got there, after hearing about it.

Vayne.8563:

I’d probably be more sympathetic to your statement if Prophecies has anything that even remotely resembled a city in the first place…but it doesn’t.

I think the old Lion’s Arch looked more like an encampment than a city, and I was very disappointed when I first got there, after hearing about it.

Whatever you say Vayne

Pariah.8506:

Vayne.8563:

I’d probably be more sympathetic to your statement if Prophecies has anything that even remotely resembled a city in the first place…but it doesn’t.

I think the old Lion’s Arch looked more like an encampment than a city, and I was very disappointed when I first got there, after hearing about it.

Whatever you say Vayne

Yet again Vayne proves he knows Sweet F.A. about Guild Wars 1… facepalm

Redenaz.8631:

Ah, yes, making it optional, like gambits, would fix the problem I was thinking of. Fair enough, Smith, fair enough.

Take a look here!

Much as I liked old LA, with its cartoonishly tall sandcastle of a city, I think this is a more representative picture of the part of it players actually spent time in. A whole city might be there in lore, but most of our activity is definitely on the outskirts. Compare with, say, Kaineng City (now isolated from the Tyrian continent) or even Droknar’s Forge (underwater ruins now,) and it’s just not the same in the same class, at least as far as how players experience it.

I’m not sure which way this sways the discussion, but I thought it was some fun context for that picture of Lion’s Arch. I totally get why we never get to roam around the rest of Lion’s Arch, the generally more urban part, but that tower has always struck me as a little, well…silly. (Link is ten seconds of relevant joke, followed by irrelevant singing~)

I thought LA was alright. But the place I really got hyped for was Droknar’s Forge. Place was gorgeous, huge, and as I had been told had the “best armor in the game” – and they were right!

As a Guildwars fan and player i must agree with the OP.

This game is a pale example of what the Guildwars franchise brought to gamers, sure there are players like Vayne who always wanted more WoW in their Guildwars than Guildwars, but i believe as a whole the GW1 fan base has either moved on or just so depressed with what Guildwars 2 has become, its pretty saddening.

Really the only thing Guildwars and Guildwars 2 share is the name and some watered down lore, the rest has been totally ignored as a whole.

Pariah.8506:

Vayne.8563:

I’d probably be more sympathetic to your statement if Prophecies has anything that even remotely resembled a city in the first place…but it doesn’t.

I think the old Lion’s Arch looked more like an encampment than a city, and I was very disappointed when I first got there, after hearing about it.

Whatever you say Vayne

Oh and you ENTERED that area, or you saw it floating above you while you stood at a tent in LA. How many structures could you enter in LA…please provide a count. I don’t remember any structure in LA you could enter. Hell, with the exception of a fountain, I don’t even remember any structure in LA you can walk around…well except for tents.

Anyone who can begin to compare something like LA with something like Divinity’s Reach in Guild Wars 2 is being completely disingenuous.

Look everyone, it’s a painting you can look at but can’t enter.

Yeah….some city.

Dante.1508:

As a Guildwars fan and player i must agree with the OP.

This game is a pale example of what the Guildwars franchise brought to gamers, sure there are players like Vayne who always wanted more WoW in their Guildwars than Guildwars, but i believe as a whole the GW1 fan base has either moved on or just so depressed with what Guildwars 2 has become, its pretty saddening.

Really the only thing Guildwars and Guildwars 2 share is the name and some watered down lore, the rest has been totally ignored as a whole.

Way to completely misrepresent me, since I don’t like and have never liked WoW and can’t stomach the game, while I did like Guild Wars 1.

Remind me again, how long did you play WoW for? I can’t remember.

Gandarel.5091:

I dare to say more than 50% of the GW2 playerbase came from GW1. Or at least 40%. Sometimes i even see random dungeon teams with 5/5 GW1 titles. They make up most of the real core and loyal base.

Still, they don’t continue anything we loved in GW1, however we were promised to have “all we loved in GW1” – manifesto, anyone?

Yet it feels odd. If the community is asking for a GW1 feature, they do the opposite. Do Arenanet devs feel like GW1 isn’t their product, because most of the devs are new to the company?

For example, build teamplates. or GvG. PvP as a whole, is the opposite of GW1’s PvP – lack of variety, no rewards no resources.( Or Cantha! >_> )

Or the birthday gifts… EVERYONE was expecting a nice minipet pack. Instead, we got a Jennah, some booster (which was bugged and totally destroyed the non-existing Pvp economy) and an useless scroll. However… surely a coincidence but the gemstore happened to have a new minipet pack at the 1st anniversary. Feels like they were aiming for Gw1 people to buy their own gifts for money.

Don’t forget the landscape – can you tell me any kind of place that was presented in GW1 and is not in ruins? Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Any thoughts?

“Atleast 40% players base are GW1 players?!” where do you get those # from?! Don’t shout out some random # because of “I think crap”.

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

As a Guildwars fan and player i must agree with the OP.

This game is a pale example of what the Guildwars franchise brought to gamers, sure there are players like Vayne who always wanted more WoW in their Guildwars than Guildwars, but i believe as a whole the GW1 fan base has either moved on or just so depressed with what Guildwars 2 has become, its pretty saddening.

Really the only thing Guildwars and Guildwars 2 share is the name and some watered down lore, the rest has been totally ignored as a whole.

Way to completely misrepresent me, since I don’t like and have never liked WoW and can’t stomach the game, while I did like Guild Wars 1.

Remind me again, how long did you play WoW for? I can’t remember.

Mostly till 2006 -07 but on and off for 4 years in GW, never played WoW ever not even a trial i was in Anarchy Online when wow opened, the Graphics turned me off so i never touched it.

I have Played Korean clones of WoW, one of which Runes of Magic feels heavily like Guildwars 2 now to me, very similar values and mechanics too.

Generally, if I see someone guesstimating how much of the GW2 playerbase is GW1 players, or how many have carried over, or how many have dropped off since release, I just ignore the number, because there’s no practical source for that as-is that I’m aware of. Lots of anecdotal evidence, sure, but when we’re talking statistics like this, the only thing I want to trust my own experience to do is remind me of all the times real, reliable statistics have gone against my expectations.

Numbers could be lower or higher than presented, so without sources or a clear methodology, it’s really just guessing one way or the other at the big picture.

Edit: For clarity, this was meant to follow right below Flash’s post, which is why I didn’t quote him or have any relation to what Dante is saying. Probably obvious, but it doesn’t hurt to be clear.

Gandarel.5091:

I dare to say more than 50% of the GW2 playerbase came from GW1. Or at least 40%. Sometimes i even see random dungeon teams with 5/5 GW1 titles. They make up most of the real core and loyal base.

Still, they don’t continue anything we loved in GW1, however we were promised to have “all we loved in GW1” – manifesto, anyone?

Yet it feels odd. If the community is asking for a GW1 feature, they do the opposite. Do Arenanet devs feel like GW1 isn’t their product, because most of the devs are new to the company?

For example, build teamplates. or GvG. PvP as a whole, is the opposite of GW1’s PvP – lack of variety, no rewards no resources.( Or Cantha! >_> )

Or the birthday gifts… EVERYONE was expecting a nice minipet pack. Instead, we got a Jennah, some booster (which was bugged and totally destroyed the non-existing Pvp economy) and an useless scroll. However… surely a coincidence but the gemstore happened to have a new minipet pack at the 1st anniversary. Feels like they were aiming for Gw1 people to buy their own gifts for money.

Don’t forget the landscape – can you tell me any kind of place that was presented in GW1 and is not in ruins? Most players loved Ascalon – now we have to kill their ghosts, if they are already dead, or blow up the remnants of their kingdom. Just.. no.

Any thoughts?

Using the word “loyal” should be avoided. No players are loyal to any game developer. There are Fanboy (fan based) players and they typically ruin games by their demanding attitudes and game developers cater right in to that, too.

GW1 graphics are old, it’s content is old and to some they simply don’t enjoy that. Others do. Just a choice. I played GW1 for a little while but as time moved on got sick of it. I will leave a game in a heartbeat for something else that gives me enjoyment and time well spent.

I agree totally, this game is a sad shadow of GW1. A lot of the complexity and lore are completely gone. And yes, I did want GW1 with better graphics! I miss that game but I can’t go back.

I really want them to do a game that dates before GW1, that’s the story I want to know. In GW1 there were so many ruins that had little to no explanation and I would love to see them when they were still intact. GW2 has yet to wow me with any environment like GW1 did

Redenaz.8631:

Generally, if I see someone guesstimating how much of the GW2 playerbase is GW1 players, or how many have carried over, or how many have dropped off since release, I just ignore the number, because there’s no practical source for that as-is that I’m aware of. Lots of anecdotal evidence, sure, but when we’re talking statistics like this, the only thing I want to trust my own experience to do is remind me of all the times real, reliable statistics have gone against my expectations.

Numbers could be lower or higher than presented, so without sources or a clear methodology, it’s really just guessing one way or the other at the big picture.

Edit: For clarity, this was meant to follow right below Flash’s post, which is why I didn’t quote him or have any relation to what Dante is saying. Probably obvious, but it doesn’t hurt to be clear.

as i like to say 98% of all statistics are false

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

As a Guildwars fan and player i must agree with the OP.

This game is a pale example of what the Guildwars franchise brought to gamers, sure there are players like Vayne who always wanted more WoW in their Guildwars than Guildwars, but i believe as a whole the GW1 fan base has either moved on or just so depressed with what Guildwars 2 has become, its pretty saddening.

Really the only thing Guildwars and Guildwars 2 share is the name and some watered down lore, the rest has been totally ignored as a whole.

Way to completely misrepresent me, since I don’t like and have never liked WoW and can’t stomach the game, while I did like Guild Wars 1.

Remind me again, how long did you play WoW for? I can’t remember.

Mostly till 2006 -07 but on and off for 4 years in GW, never played WoW ever not even a trial i was in Anarchy Online when wow opened, the Graphics turned me off so i never touched it.

I have Played Korean clones of WoW, one of which Runes of Magic feels heavily like Guildwars 2 now to me, very similar values and mechanics too.

So why keep comparing this game to WoW, when it’s nothing like WoW?

Guild Wars 1 players are complaining it’s too much like WoW. People who like WoW are complaining it’s nothing like WoW.

In some ways, Guild Wars 1 is more like WoW than Guild Wars 2 is.

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

As a Guildwars fan and player i must agree with the OP.

This game is a pale example of what the Guildwars franchise brought to gamers, sure there are players like Vayne who always wanted more WoW in their Guildwars than Guildwars, but i believe as a whole the GW1 fan base has either moved on or just so depressed with what Guildwars 2 has become, its pretty saddening.

Really the only thing Guildwars and Guildwars 2 share is the name and some watered down lore, the rest has been totally ignored as a whole.

Way to completely misrepresent me, since I don’t like and have never liked WoW and can’t stomach the game, while I did like Guild Wars 1.

Remind me again, how long did you play WoW for? I can’t remember.

Mostly till 2006 -07 but on and off for 4 years in GW, never played WoW ever not even a trial i was in Anarchy Online when wow opened, the Graphics turned me off so i never touched it.

I have Played Korean clones of WoW, one of which Runes of Magic feels heavily like Guildwars 2 now to me, very similar values and mechanics too.

So why keep comparing this game to WoW, when it’s nothing like WoW?

Guild Wars 1 players are complaining it’s too much like WoW. People who like WoW are complaining it’s nothing like WoW.

In some ways, Guild Wars 1 is more like WoW than Guild Wars 2 is.

Because over the past year it is very much like WoW and its clones, i cannot see how you do not see the comparisons honestly. I even said its very Similar to RoM (which is a almost mirror of WoW only Asian owned)

Guildwars 1 players main gripes are Ascended treadmill/uneeded Vertical Progression, the lack of most GW1 mechanics added to GW2 and no permanent Content (or very little being added and nothing on the horizon either).

I’m not sure how Guildwars was like WoW in anyway at all, other than they had many players and were both online at the same time.. Honestly when i played GW so many new players that joined (at the time) used to bag Guildwars for being totally unlike WoW etc and the main reason i even joined Guildwars was because i didn’t want to play WoW or anything like it.

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

As a Guildwars fan and player i must agree with the OP.

This game is a pale example of what the Guildwars franchise brought to gamers, sure there are players like Vayne who always wanted more WoW in their Guildwars than Guildwars, but i believe as a whole the GW1 fan base has either moved on or just so depressed with what Guildwars 2 has become, its pretty saddening.

Really the only thing Guildwars and Guildwars 2 share is the name and some watered down lore, the rest has been totally ignored as a whole.

Way to completely misrepresent me, since I don’t like and have never liked WoW and can’t stomach the game, while I did like Guild Wars 1.

Remind me again, how long did you play WoW for? I can’t remember.

Mostly till 2006 -07 but on and off for 4 years in GW, never played WoW ever not even a trial i was in Anarchy Online when wow opened, the Graphics turned me off so i never touched it.

I have Played Korean clones of WoW, one of which Runes of Magic feels heavily like Guildwars 2 now to me, very similar values and mechanics too.

So why keep comparing this game to WoW, when it’s nothing like WoW?

Guild Wars 1 players are complaining it’s too much like WoW. People who like WoW are complaining it’s nothing like WoW.

In some ways, Guild Wars 1 is more like WoW than Guild Wars 2 is.

I’d say GW2 at least “plays” a lot more akin to a standard MMO rather than GW1, largely due to mechanics such as stealth, using skills while moving, and the emphasis on soloing in a persistant world. Plus, dungeons are centered on a five person party.

GW1 player from the start here. The only complaint I have is that the game lacks Cantha. Add Cantha and I will be satisfied.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

As a Guildwars fan and player i must agree with the OP.

This game is a pale example of what the Guildwars franchise brought to gamers, sure there are players like Vayne who always wanted more WoW in their Guildwars than Guildwars, but i believe as a whole the GW1 fan base has either moved on or just so depressed with what Guildwars 2 has become, its pretty saddening.

Really the only thing Guildwars and Guildwars 2 share is the name and some watered down lore, the rest has been totally ignored as a whole.

Way to completely misrepresent me, since I don’t like and have never liked WoW and can’t stomach the game, while I did like Guild Wars 1.

Remind me again, how long did you play WoW for? I can’t remember.

Mostly till 2006 -07 but on and off for 4 years in GW, never played WoW ever not even a trial i was in Anarchy Online when wow opened, the Graphics turned me off so i never touched it.

I have Played Korean clones of WoW, one of which Runes of Magic feels heavily like Guildwars 2 now to me, very similar values and mechanics too.

So why keep comparing this game to WoW, when it’s nothing like WoW?

Guild Wars 1 players are complaining it’s too much like WoW. People who like WoW are complaining it’s nothing like WoW.

In some ways, Guild Wars 1 is more like WoW than Guild Wars 2 is.

Because over the past year it is very much like WoW and its clones, i cannot see how you do not see the comparisons honestly. I even said its very Similar to RoM (which is a almost mirror of WoW only Asian owned)

Guildwars 1 players main gripes are Ascended treadmill/uneeded Vertical Progression, the lack of most GW1 mechanics added to GW2 and no permanent Content (or very little being added and nothing on the horizon either).

I’m not sure how Guildwars was like WoW in anyway at all, other than they had many players and were both online at the same time.. Honestly when i played GW so many new players that joined (at the time) used to bag Guildwars for being totally unlike WoW etc and the main reason i even joined Guildwars was because i didn’t want to play WoW or anything like it.

Standard questing is the same in both games. There is rep you end up grinding in both Guild Wars 1 and WoW. There are far more skills in Guild Wars 1 and WoW. PvP types are more directly comparable. In WoW low level zones are meaningless once you’re a higher level and in Guild Wars 1 it’s basically the same. There are a lot of ways that they’re similar.

Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, doesn’t have required gear grind. That is to say, in WoW, do do the latest heroic raid, you must have that gear. And you get that gear by doing the specific raid before it. I’m really not sure how you can say these are the same.

You can’t compare the dailies, because Guild Wars 2 dailies are nothing like WoW dailies. Nothing at all.

You’re taking one tiny part of the game, that you have to “grind” for BIS gear, but even that grind is completely different.

You don’t need the gear. That’s the difference.

Vayne.8563:

So why keep comparing this game to WoW, when it’s nothing like WoW?

Are you sure about that ? To be like something else does not mean to be identical. I’m pretty sure that it would not be difficult to come up with a list of similarities.

Vayne.8563:

Standard questing is the same in both games. There is rep you end up grinding in both Guild Wars 1 and WoW. There are far more skills in Guild Wars 1 and WoW. PvP types are more directly comparable. In WoW low level zones are meaningless once you’re a higher level and in Guild Wars 1 it’s basically the same. There are a lot of ways that they’re similar.

Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, doesn’t have required gear grind. That is to say, in WoW, do do the latest heroic raid, you must have that gear. And you get that gear by doing the specific raid before it. I’m really not sure how you can say these are the same.

You can’t compare the dailies, because Guild Wars 2 dailies are nothing like WoW dailies. Nothing at all.

You’re taking one tiny part of the game, that you have to “grind” for BIS gear, but even that grind is completely different.

You don’t need the gear. That’s the difference.

Standard Questing is in Guildwars 2 only renamed to Hearts, I never hated questing i liked it (but thats me personally).

Rep is Achievement points here..

PvP is the same in every game mmo or otherwise..

Why do you need to go to low level zones when you’re high level anyway? to show off… at them.. or just to help friends maybe occasionally. GW1 everyone was lvl 20 so high and low never really existed, which was great.

Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, doesn’t have required gear grind. you are deluding yourself if you believe that, and thats all i’ll say on that.
WoW, do do the latest heroic raid, you must have that gear. GW2, do the latest Fotm run, you must have Ascended, there is no difference other than GW2 is more limited in scope..

Grind is right through this game in one way or another, dailies are just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.
There is very little longevity here, GW1 Dual class builds and Skill captures and plethora of skills added to the game, the stories were better fleshed out, more PvP modes to do, that even casuals like me could enjoy and their was very little RNG, chasing money and higher numbers in GW1 (at least in 2006-07), EoTN may have ruined GW but im glad i wasn’t there to witness it.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, doesn’t have required gear grind. That is to say, in WoW, do do the latest heroic raid, you must have that gear. And you get that gear by doing the specific raid before it. I’m really not sure how you can say these are the same.

How relevant is this in WoW these days? I ask because I resubscribed to it when they introduced the “looking for raid” feature, and the gear I was able to get through daily dungeons was, at that point, a higher tier than the gear from the earlier Cataclysm raids.

As such, I didn’t have to “gear up” through all of the older raids in order to experience their latest Hour of Twilight content. I would be interested to see how they’re still handling it.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

So why keep comparing this game to WoW, when it’s nothing like WoW?

Are you sure about that ? To be like something else does not mean to be identical. I’m pretty sure that it would not be difficult to come up with a list of similarities.

I could come up with similarities between anything. That doesn’t make something like it. The commentary that this game is like WoW is misleading in so many ways. People are taking one or two factors and due to the existence in those factors, suddenly this is a WoW clone…and it’s not. Not even close.

My particularly annoyance is someone claiming that I want it to be more like WoW, which is completely incorrect.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Standard questing is the same in both games. There is rep you end up grinding in both Guild Wars 1 and WoW. There are far more skills in Guild Wars 1 and WoW. PvP types are more directly comparable. In WoW low level zones are meaningless once you’re a higher level and in Guild Wars 1 it’s basically the same. There are a lot of ways that they’re similar.

Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, doesn’t have required gear grind. That is to say, in WoW, do do the latest heroic raid, you must have that gear. And you get that gear by doing the specific raid before it. I’m really not sure how you can say these are the same.

You can’t compare the dailies, because Guild Wars 2 dailies are nothing like WoW dailies. Nothing at all.

You’re taking one tiny part of the game, that you have to “grind” for BIS gear, but even that grind is completely different.

You don’t need the gear. That’s the difference.

Standard Questing is in Guildwars 2 only renamed to Hearts, I never hated questing i liked it (but thats me personally).

Rep is Achievement points here..

PvP is the same in every game mmo or otherwise..

Why do you need to go to low level zones when you’re high level anyway? to show off… at them.. or just to help friends maybe occasionally. GW1 everyone was lvl 20 so high and low never really existed, which was great.

Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, doesn’t have required gear grind. you are deluding yourself if you believe that, and thats all i’ll say on that.
WoW, do do the latest heroic raid, you must have that gear. GW2, do the latest Fotm run, you must have Ascended, there is no difference other than GW2 is more limited in scope..

Grind is right through this game in one way or another, dailies are just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.
There is very little longevity here, GW1 Dual class builds and Skill captures and plethora of skills added to the game, the stories were better fleshed out, more PvP modes to do, that even casuals like me could enjoy and their was very little RNG, chasing money and higher numbers in GW1 (at least in 2006-07), EoTN may have ruined GW but im glad i wasn’t there to witness it.

We had Rep in Guild Wars 1, and it was far far more like Rep in WoW (based on races and such) than anything in Guild Wars 2. Achievement points are nothing like WoW rep at all.

And hearts are NOT standard questing. For one thing, hearts are only there to keep you in an area where dynamic events occur. That’s their sole function. You can fill in most hearts without doing them, but doing the dynamic events around them. You can also fill in hearts differently. Most hearts have a non-combat option. And then you don’t get the automatic quest reward that you don’t want from Guild Wars 1 or WoW. You get a currency to buy the quest reward you want from an unlocked heart vendor.

I mean anyone can say anything is the same. Look it has swords, must be a WOW clone. Look it has dwarves, but there not there anymore, must be a skyrim clone.

And I don’t use ascended weapons on most of my characters and can’t see a difference. You’re highly over-estimating how necessary ascended weapons are.