Guild Wars 2

tolunart.2095:

how many players have logged in this month in order to kill 7.5 million oozes.

tolunart.2095:

and at least a thousand new Legendaries can be created every week

I would be very interested to see how those two numbers relate.

If the average number of oozes killed per month per player is ten then we are talking about 750k players per month.

Four thousand legendaries per month (1k per week for 4 weeks) represents approximately half a percent of those monthly players. That translates to six percent for twelve months of players at that rate right ?

Is 1 in 17 players getting a legendary over the course of a year of play excessive ?

Of course all of my numbers are made up for purpose of the conversation, I would love to see sufficiently solid numbers to really measure this sort of thing.

Ashen.2907:

Gene Archer’s post gave the impression, to me at least, that he thought the devs who do the actual production of the game are customer service personnel.

Because they are. Not in an official capacity, mind you, I do understand that. But when you work for the company, and you wear the uniform, you represent that company.

When the devs post here, with the red tag, they represent the company and are working for the company, regardless of clocked time.

Now, I understand that it’s not their official job. But that begs the question: whose job is it? And if there are people who that job belongs to, why aren’t they doing it?

Even the cooks at my place of work have to represent the company. Customer Service isn’t part of their job, but they still have to do it, because there are times they wind up being on the front line, even when they shouldn’t be.

So, if this communication thing isn’t going to be the Dev’s job, because they don’t do it officially, we need someone to fill in for them on an official front. And if we’re not doing that, and instead we’re going to rely on the devs, then I’m sorry, but the devs need to (wo)man up.

Ashen.2907:

I asked several questions of Mr(?) Archer, related to his stated line of work (or at least the general industry) in order to couch the point in terms he had expressed a preference to use in order to point out that not everyone who works for a company is directly involved with customer service.

You’re right, not everyone is. But they still represent the company, regardless of PR qualifications. It’s a really difficult balancing act, but a company has no choice.

Ashen.2907:

In fact some employees are assumed and expected to not be involved in direct customer interaction.

And that’s fair, but then why do the devs post at all on the forums? Why do they have forum accounts if they aren’t expected to communicate in at least some way?

And again, if not them, who is supposed to be communicating, then?

Ashen.2907:

My goal was to point out the difference between a customer service rep, who is being paid to represent the company to its customers, and the production end of the company which is paid to produce a product. I also hoped that Mr Archer would recognize that not choosing to use their free time to work without pay, at a task that they do not enjoy in particular, for the company’s benefit is nothing like a decision to, “hide my head in the sand,” as mister Archer put it.

The devs are the only link we have. If they’re not being paid for this, then they need to start being paid for it. Otherwise get someone on board to do it for them, who will also be paid for it. But if the devs are going to be the only link we have and can rely on, then yes, avoiding us is just burying their heads in the sand, regardless of whether this is their job in any official capacity.

Ashen.2907:

I was not attacking Mr Archer.

Didn’t see it as one, for the record. Took til now to get back to you because I passed out at some point from lack of sleep.

Ashen.2907:

I have worked in the same field as Mr Archer and have nothing but respect for those who put up with all of the negatives inherent to that job.

It really sucks, doesn’kitten But it certainly is an eye opener, at the same time. It becomes really hard to balance the idea of being a customer and serving a customer.

It’s nuts, man.

(Also, tip your server and delivery driver, folks! /shameless plug)

Ashen.2907:

I am not a member of any Anet fanclub. I am critical of the company when it seems appropriate to me and supportive when that seems appropriate. Generally more critical than otherwise of late.

I’ve seen Ashen’s posts. I can confirm this to be true.

It’s called being short staffed.

Their should be someone who communicates with us and is up to date on everything the dev’s are doing.

But I get the feeling they aren’t in a hiring mood right now.

Maybe because gem store sales suck. Because the game sucks. If the game was doing well, sales would be up, and they could hire this kind of liaison.

One more little clue that the game, and the company, are failing.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Right just stepping out to give James Smith (Dev Director at Anet) a shower of freezing cold water.

http://www.alsa.org/

BrB.

Chris

Thumbs up for this! :-)

Suggestion: When you do the next CDI, don’t make it a thread.

Make it a sub-forum.

Part of the problem in the old CDI threads was how much of a mess they became. But if it’s a sub-forum with one main CDI thread, then when something interesting comes up you can say “That might be worth a more in-depth discussion in its own thread, go ahead and start one.” They can then make the new thread in the sub-forum, and that topic can get talked over in more detail without derailing the main thread.

Of course, any devs in the CDI could start new threads there as well. Such as “You say you want better rewards. What does ‘better rewards’ mean to you?” Getting details talked out and making sure everyone is on the same page without cluttering up the main topic.

When it’s over, lock the sub-forum and have someone work up a “final results” post. Keep that somewhere, and wipe the sub-forum when the next CDI starts.

Ashen.2907:

tolunart.2095:

how many players have logged in this month in order to kill 7.5 million oozes.

tolunart.2095:

and at least a thousand new Legendaries can be created every week

I would be very interested to see how those two numbers relate.

If the average number of oozes killed per month per player is ten then we are talking about 750k players per month.

Four thousand legendaries per month (1k per week for 4 weeks) represents approximately half a percent of those monthly players. That translates to six percent for twelve months of players at that rate right ?

Is 1 in 17 players getting a legendary over the course of a year of play excessive ?

Of course all of my numbers are made up for purpose of the conversation, I would love to see sufficiently solid numbers to really measure this sort of thing.

It sounds about right. Legendaries were never intended as “cool skins for everybody!” It’s a long-term project that is supposed to require players to explore different game modes (WvW badges, map completion, stacks of hard-to-find materials) and represent the elite players who are rewarded with some of the rarest items in the game.

The original GW is, what, about ten years old? Six percent per year means that in five years 30% of the players could have Legendaries. In a decade, 60%… and that’s assuming that they lower the drop rate as more casual players reach max level… even after two years a good percentage of the more casual players are not even 80 yet. My wife has one at 80 but prefers to play lower level characters because she likes to explore the personal stories and such.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Right just stepping out to give James Smith (Dev Director at Anet) a shower of freezing cold water.

http://www.alsa.org/

BrB.

Chris

Ha, well that’s mildly amusing.

Palador.2170:

Suggestion: When you do the next CDI, don’t make it a thread.

Make it a sub-forum.

Part of the problem in the old CDI threads was how much of a mess they became. But if it’s a sub-forum with one main CDI thread, then when something interesting comes up you can say “That might be worth a more in-depth discussion in its own thread, go ahead and start one.” They can then make the new thread in the sub-forum, and that topic can get talked over in more detail without derailing the main thread.

Of course, any devs in the CDI could start new threads there as well. Such as “You say you want better rewards. What does ‘better rewards’ mean to you?” Getting details talked out and making sure everyone is on the same page without cluttering up the main topic.

When it’s over, lock the sub-forum and have someone work up a “final results” post. Keep that somewhere, and wipe the sub-forum when the next CDI starts.

I agree with this, make it a subforum.
The biggest problem is that not only do you have a lot of people talking simultaneously, but you have several different discussions going on. Trying to pay attention to one conversations is difficult enough, but having that all go on at once is untenable.

It’s like trying to listen to someone in a busy subway station where every one is talking and yelling over top of each other.

This would inherently make it easier to read and keep up with.

Gene Archer.8560:

Because they are. Not in an official capacity, mind you, I do understand that. But when you work for the company, and you wear the uniform, you represent that company.

When the devs post here, with the red tag, they represent the company and are working for the company, regardless of clocked time.

Now, I understand that it’s not their official job. But that begs the question: whose job is it? And if there are people who that job belongs to, why aren’t they doing it?

Even the cooks at my place of work have to represent the company. Customer Service isn’t part of their job, but they still have to do it, because there are times they wind up being on the front line, even when they shouldn’t be.

So, if this communication thing isn’t going to be the Dev’s job, because they don’t do it officially, we need someone to fill in for them on an official front. And if we’re not doing that, and instead we’re going to rely on the devs, then I’m sorry, but the devs need to (wo)man up.

You’re right, not everyone is. But they still represent the company, regardless of PR qualifications. It’s a really difficult balancing act, but a company has no choice.

And that’s fair, but then why do the devs post at all on the forums? Why do they have forum accounts if they aren’t expected to communicate in at least some way?

And again, if not them, who is supposed to be communicating, then?

The devs are the only link we have. If they’re not being paid for this, then they need to start being paid for it. Otherwise get someone on board to do it for them, who will also be paid for it. But if the devs are going to be the only link we have and can rely on, then yes, avoiding us is just burying their heads in the sand, regardless of whether this is their job in any official capacity.

Ashen.2907:

I was not attacking Mr Archer.

Didn’t see it as one, for the record. Took til now to get back to you because I passed out at some point from lack of sleep.

Ashen.2907:

I have worked in the same field as Mr Archer and have nothing but respect for those who put up with all of the negatives inherent to that job.

It really sucks, doesn’kitten But it certainly is an eye opener, at the same time. It becomes really hard to balance the idea of being a customer and serving a customer.

It’s nuts, man.

(Also, tip your server and delivery driver, folks! /shameless plug)

As to the rest of the subsequent commentary:

Ashen.2907:

I am not a member of any Anet fanclub. I am critical of the company when it seems appropriate to me and supportive when that seems appropriate. Generally more critical than otherwise of late.

I’ve seen Ashen’s posts. I can confirm this to be true.

Cant disagree with any of this. I especially agree with your point that if actual devs (programmers, content designers, etc) are not going to be Anet’s official link to the customer base there needs to be someone doing that job.

My thought wasn’t that an employee who dons that uniform (in this case a red label for their forum posting) shouldn’t be considered a company customer service rep at that time, but rather that someone who is not paid to do so making the choice to not do so is not something they should be faulted for. Once someone chooses to put on that company logo name-tag and steps in front of customers…yeah they are service reps.

I do think that it would be in our best interest to make them feel like they might want to do so if its not going to be a part of their actual job.

Anet as a company has had some serious communication problems (IMO) individual devs, not so much.

PS: I generally tip my driver 20%, more if the weather is bad. I also firmly believe that everyone should work food service and retail at some point in their life.

Palador.2170:

Suggestion: When you do the next CDI, don’t make it a thread.

Make it a sub-forum.
.

This is a good idea. Is there a way to set it up so that devs can start new threads but players can only post in existing ones? Otherwise I think a CDI forum would be flooded with “there are already ten threads on the same topic but my idea is special” posts.

Palador.2170:

Suggestion: When you do the next CDI, don’t make it a thread.

Make it a sub-forum.

Part of the problem in the old CDI threads was how much of a mess they became. But if it’s a sub-forum with one main CDI thread, then when something interesting comes up you can say “That might be worth a more in-depth discussion in its own thread, go ahead and start one.” They can then make the new thread in the sub-forum, and that topic can get talked over in more detail without derailing the main thread.

Of course, any devs in the CDI could start new threads there as well. Such as “You say you want better rewards. What does ‘better rewards’ mean to you?” Getting details talked out and making sure everyone is on the same page without cluttering up the main topic.

When it’s over, lock the sub-forum and have someone work up a “final results” post. Keep that somewhere, and wipe the sub-forum when the next CDI starts.

This is a brilliant idea. I know some have suggested Reddit-style format, but any time I look at a Reddit page I am totally lost as to what’s been said when. I’m old fashioned and prefer linear text Doing it with subforum threads would let individual conversations get sorted out while still keeping them all in one findable place.

tolunart.2095:

Palador.2170:

Suggestion: When you do the next CDI, don’t make it a thread.

Make it a sub-forum.
.

This is a good idea. Is there a way to set it up so that devs can start new threads but players can only post in existing ones? Otherwise I think a CDI forum would be flooded with “there are already ten threads on the same topic but my idea is special” posts.

Mmmm, idk that might stifle discussions, but I can see how it could get out of hand.
Mind you the current setup gets completely out of hand as well, so any improvement is better then none.

The problem is you never know what kind of discussion people are going to have ahead of time until they actually start doing it. I think it might have more to do with the title of said discussion thread. Because people might not know a certain discussion is currently taking place if the title of said thread isn’t clear.

And so they might mistakenly make a new thread instead of joining the current one.
So to eliminate redundancy the mods should change thread titles when necessary, and merge new threads into them when possible.
Perhaps they could also implement a highlighting system to prioritize the more important and interesting discussions and or posts.

It’s just going to have to take some level of active management.
Well, at least until they can implement some kind of automated process.

Ashen.2907:

rather that someone who is not paid to do so making the choice to not do so is not something they should be faulted for.

I do have to relent on that issue to some degree, because that is a fair point.

However, the devs have acted as the link, so that expectation has come forth. (which again just brings us to the point that someone needs to be in this position, devs or otherwise)

Ashen.2907:

I do think that it would be in our best interest to make them feel like they might want to do so if its not going to be a part of their actual job.

That is going to be a tall order. I’m not going to say that the toxicity is right, but it is something that exists, and something that ANet has brought on themselves in some capacity, and will have to work through.

For now at least, they’re going to have to continue taking the first steps to restore trust. I’m not saying they alone have to improve, but the ball is fully in their court for the foreseeable future.

Ashen.2907:

PS: I generally tip my driver 20%, more if the weather is bad.

10% is considered the base line tip, so you’re in the good tipper category, especially if you tip more in bad weather. -thumbs up-

Ashen.2907:

I also firmly believe that everyone should work food service and retail at some point in their life.

I have come to this conclusion myself.

It’s weird, much as I hate the bad customer interactions, it’s actually strengthened my resolve on the importance of “customer first” and “the customer is always right” (they aren’t actually, but business is business).

No, customers shouldn’t be flying kittenholes. But in a strange way, a lot of times, the company is the one with the most power in the relationship. But that large power base comes with the necessity of successful and continued sales and happy customers. Companies have to tread lightly with how they treat customers, regardless of customer treatment towards them. And despite how much I hate those rude people I deliver to, I still think the way things are set up is necessary. Because otherwise, you get companies like EA.

But I also believe that if everyone were required to work in at least one service sector job, especially food service, things would be very different and we might start to see a true understanding of one another.

Or so I dream, at least.

Gene Archer.8560:

Ashen.2907:

rather that someone who is not paid to do so making the choice to not do so is not something they should be faulted for.

I do have to relent on that issue to some degree, because that is a fair point.

However, the devs have acted as the link, so that expectation has come forth. (which again just brings us to the point that someone needs to be in this position, devs or otherwise)

Ashen.2907:

I do think that it would be in our best interest to make them feel like they might want to do so if its not going to be a part of their actual job.

That is going to be a tall order. I’m not going to say that the toxicity is right, but it is something that exists, and something that ANet has brought on themselves in some capacity, and will have to work through.

For now at least, they’re going to have to continue taking the first steps to restore trust. I’m not saying they alone have to improve, but the ball is fully in their court for the foreseeable future.

Ashen.2907:

PS: I generally tip my driver 20%, more if the weather is bad.

10% is considered the base line tip, so you’re in the good tipper category, especially if you tip more in bad weather. -thumbs up-

Ashen.2907:

I also firmly believe that everyone should work food service and retail at some point in their life.

I have come to this conclusion myself.

It’s weird, much as I hate the bad customer interactions, it’s actually strengthened my resolve on the importance of “customer first” and “the customer is always right” (they aren’t actually, but business is business).

No, customers shouldn’t be flying kittenholes. But in a strange way, a lot of times, the company is the one with the most power in the relationship. But that large power base comes with the necessity of successful and continued sales and happy customers. Companies have to tread lightly with how they treat customers, regardless of customer treatment towards them. And despite how much I hate those rude people I deliver to, I still think the way things are set up is necessary. Because otherwise, you get companies like EA.

But I also believe that if everyone were required to work in at least one service sector job, especially food service, things would be very different and we might start to see a true understanding of one another.

Or so I dream, at least.

Yes, the ball is entirely in their court. If they want us to play nice, then they have to show a willingness to sit down and talk to us as people. On whatever subject, and if they don’t know, ask and research.
What they need is a community manager, someone who it’s their paid job it is to sit down and talk with us, and show that they are indeed listening.

IE, exactly what Chris is doing right now. That is the behavior I expect.
But as far as I can tell, they don’t have one, at least not one who actually does their job.

Because the community is in exactly the state it’s in because no one has been doing that job for a really long time. Chris really has been the only one to step up to the plate. Which is a pretty poor sign of Arenanet, since he seems to do it largely voluntarily.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Huzzah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjftsPeef_s

For ALS Awareness and fun!

Chris

And on that note (-: I hope you have a great night/morning, I am going to watch a film.

Chris

Is the film Blues Brothers?

The film should totally be Blues Brothers.

Palador.2170:

Suggestion: When you do the next CDI, don’t make it a thread.

Make it a sub-forum.

Part of the problem in the old CDI threads was how much of a mess they became. But if it’s a sub-forum with one main CDI thread, then when something interesting comes up you can say “That might be worth a more in-depth discussion in its own thread, go ahead and start one.” They can then make the new thread in the sub-forum, and that topic can get talked over in more detail without derailing the main thread.

Of course, any devs in the CDI could start new threads there as well. Such as “You say you want better rewards. What does ‘better rewards’ mean to you?” Getting details talked out and making sure everyone is on the same page without cluttering up the main topic.

When it’s over, lock the sub-forum and have someone work up a “final results” post. Keep that somewhere, and wipe the sub-forum when the next CDI starts.

i think this is probably the best tool to better organize the cdi without making a new application

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Huzzah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjftsPeef_s

For ALS Awareness and fun!

Chris

Lol that was awesome! #Respect! I like how you took your time dropping the water. lololololol

Yoh.8469:

Yes, the ball is entirely in their court. If they want us to play nice, then they have to show a willingness to sit down and talk to us as people. On whatever subject, and if they don’t know, ask and research.
What they need is a community manager, someone who it’s their paid job it is to sit down and talk with us, and show that they are indeed listening.

IE, exactly what Chris is doing right now. That is the behavior I expect.
But as far as I can tell, they don’t have one, at least not one who actually does their job.

Because the community is in exactly the state it’s in because no one has been doing that job for a really long time. Chris really has been the only one to step up to the plate. Which is a pretty poor sign of Arenanet, since he seems to do it largely voluntarily.

I see this argument a lot on forums and every time I’m taken aback by it. Anet’s lack of communication is not a valid excuse to become a toxic member of the forums. Their communication or lack of in no way dictates how you respond to it. That is your choice. It is your choice to be nice or not, Anet doesn’t force you to be. The community is in the state it’s in because people are choosing to make it toxic. Blaming it all on Anet is just shifting the responsibility for your own actions.

Fixing the communication problem means work on both sides. Anet needs to talk more and the community needs to be less toxic to them. You being nice shouldn’t be conditional on Anet communicating well.

Torsailr.8456:

Yoh.8469:

Yes, the ball is entirely in their court. If they want us to play nice, then they have to show a willingness to sit down and talk to us as people. On whatever subject, and if they don’t know, ask and research.
What they need is a community manager, someone who it’s their paid job it is to sit down and talk with us, and show that they are indeed listening.

IE, exactly what Chris is doing right now. That is the behavior I expect.
But as far as I can tell, they don’t have one, at least not one who actually does their job.

Because the community is in exactly the state it’s in because no one has been doing that job for a really long time. Chris really has been the only one to step up to the plate. Which is a pretty poor sign of Arenanet, since he seems to do it largely voluntarily.

I see this argument a lot on forums and every time I’m taken aback by it. Anet’s lack of communication is not a valid excuse to become a toxic member of the forums. Their communication or lack of in no way dictates how you respond to it. That is your choice. It is your choice to be nice or not, Anet doesn’t force you to be. The community is in the state it’s in because people are choosing to make it toxic. Blaming it all on Anet is just shifting the responsibility for your own actions.

Fixing the communication problem means work on both sides. Anet needs to talk more and the community needs to be less toxic to them. You being nice shouldn’t be conditional on Anet communicating well.

Yes but their in the position of power, we can talk all day long, but unless they initiate contact, there is no communication. And the community becoming toxic as a result of their lack of communication isn’t an excuse, it’s a result.

Weather you believe it or not, they do have a certain degree of responsibilities to their player base, ie their clients. This is in part, a service industry. And when you don’t get the service you expected or payed for, you have a right to be aggrieved.
And ignoring them, while continuing to under perform is a sure way to anger many people.

If I acted like they do in my job to my clients, I wouldn’t have a job. It is unprofessional, and disgraceful.

And while I agree that it is up to the individual to reign in their toxicity and temper their expectation, you cannot reasonable expect for people not to be upset.
If they are willing to open up consistent and reliable communication, I am willing to capitulate. But that doesn’t mean I trust them, they have a long road ahead of them if they wish to earn that again.

Torsailr.8456:

Anet’s lack of communication is not a valid excuse to become a toxic member of the forums.

This is a circular argument. While your statement is 100% true, it is also true to state that the toxic behavior of some forum members is not a valid excuse to justify ANet’s lack of communication with the rest of the community. Someone has to break the cycle, and I believe it should be ANet, since they are the ones in a position of power here.

On another note:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Huzzah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjftsPeef_s

For ALS Awareness and fun!

Chris

Wow, Chris, the way you s-l-o-w-l-y drizzled that ice water over James was pure evil! LOL! But kudos to both you and James (especially James!!!) for taking part in the awareness campaign.

@OP dev :

i think the English Language has some words that can used when there are serious problems , like :

we know about this issue and we are working to fix it
awareness about this issue
we need more informations
we are working on that
we are working in more important issues , but we record it
etc ….

silent some times is not gold . in business the best practice is to win time by keeping calm the customer , soz player i wanted to say

Palador.2170:

Suggestion: When you do the next CDI, don’t make it a thread.

Make it a sub-forum.

Wow, now that is an obvious enough idea for it to should have appeared on page one O.o

+1

oh and one could just leave the sub-forum open, if users can’t create threads there and mods close the finished ones

Having the CDIs in their own sub-forums was suggested in previous CDIs. I don’t believe it was thought to be a good idea. I can’t remember why. I’m sure you can read about it is the pertinent CDI, though. =)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Having the CDIs in their own sub-forums was suggested in previous CDIs. I don’t believe it was thought to be a good idea. I can’t remember why. I’m sure you can read about it is the pertinent CDI, though. =)

Chris feared that it would reduce visibility which I don’t think is true (and a lot of people spoke up and disagreed) But maybe he’d reconsider?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Having the CDIs in their own sub-forums was suggested in previous CDIs. I don’t believe it was thought to be a good idea. I can’t remember why. I’m sure you can read about it is the pertinent CDI, though. =)

oh, I only actively read and two and posted in one, my bad, which one was it? to read his wording. if it was listed in the summary I can just check them all quickly.

and good morning to Anet

Michael Walker.8150:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Having the CDIs in their own sub-forums was suggested in previous CDIs. I don’t believe it was thought to be a good idea. I can’t remember why. I’m sure you can read about it is the pertinent CDI, though. =)

oh, I only actively read and two and posted in one, my bad, which one was it? to read his wording. if it was listed in the summary I can just check them all quickly.

I believe it was the process evolution before the fractal cdi. Could be wrong.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Huzzah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjftsPeef_s

For ALS Awareness and fun!

Chris

Haha, wow! That was unexpected and fun! The kids looked really cute there.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I believe it was the process evolution before the fractal cdi. Could be wrong.

it was suggested there up until the second to last page but the only thing I found was this

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Inculpatas,

Regarding the discussion about one thread at a time. The advantage for us currently is that the team could concentrate on one topic at a time rather than having three threads to keep up with and therefore have more time to get involved. It would also allow me to enter the discussion of the threads in different areas. Note i am still undecided about this particular discussion. I to am very worried about the time it would take to rotate between topics and for this reason alone that could be a big enough con to not move forward with the above proposal.

Chris

gotta run, thx Lilith

Mike O Brien.4613:

We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers.

It is not about making and breaking promises. It is about letting your customers know, on a regular basis, in which directions you are going and thinking and in which direction the game will go in the next month, half year, year.

And it is also about letting your customers know, whether or not a problem of your game / your customers is identified by you as a problem or is “working as intended”. (example: some issues of the megaserver …)

If your communication will not be more specific in the future then everyone will suffer more. Wild speculation (because A-net says nothing with substance) can also lead to false hope and suffering.

This “suffering”, that you may not have realised in the past, already leads to this actual situation.

Only to announce things that are already finished (which I interepret as: are in beta test completion and will be delivered within the next 4 weeks) can lead easily to the false idea that there is no management strategy and no real roadmap and development plan.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Don’t read that as meaning that we don’t want to talk with you about the longer-term roadmap.

Ok, then. What is your long-term roadmap? I do not want to read as an answer what is in development and what not, but what is the (as of today) roadmap for one year, two years? Will it be an expansion? Will it be LS 3.0? Will it be Cantha?

I would like to hear about managment strategy but not develompment details.

Mike O Brien.4613:

When those discussions trigger development, we’ll work internally until we have something we’re proud of before we’ll announce it.

Are you proud of the megaservers, how they were announced, how community feedback was considered after the announcement, how they were developed, how they were rolled out and how the "after rollout bugfixing " and communication was and is handled?

I do not want to be offensive or rude. please forgive me if a am too direct. English is not my mother language.

Greetings.

P.S. I do not want to change this discussion to be about megaservers. that is only an example.

I’m not happy about how they’ve handled classes as an Engineer I feel it’s completely negligent however I have to say that I agree that they can’t do everything and that it does take time. They did pick three things that they felt were the most asked for out of that CDI and went with it. Because of their focus on other development things like launching in China and the PVP/Dungeon focus of this game, however, they did have an exceedingly long development time. I’m saying maybe we should see where this goes coming up. You see their recent interview gave me the impression that their focus will no longer be on dungeons, with that out of the way and with no other major launches happening let’s give them a chance to redeem themselves.

I personally would like to see a new focus on the problems in the Open World PVE which due to the focus on PVP/WVW/tPVP/Dungeons has been neglected far far too long, I think they need to fix these issues so that the gameplay is normalized and their design statements become honest and true (like their statements on a dedication to more diversity and their own trinity being an actual thing in their game instead of Zerker being the only option)

I also feel that if they do CDI’s after this next one they should include ALL classes each class having what Colin described as a stickie with the results of the CDI in it giving players an idea of what they are working on based on what is most important to the playerbase without time frames (because I do have programmer friends and they’ve explained to me the time frames and what might have happened with Arenanet’s).

I just don’t want to be ignored, I don’t want serious problems like Explosives Trigger Range for mines in PVE or the Kit Refinement problems as future solutions to the class problems we face. AND I’d prefer that the CDI focus on the inherent problems of the game that have plagued it for so long like condition stacking.

So basically I’ll be happy if these inherent problems are fixed first and foremost, then a focus on fixing the classes, then a focus on adding more things to do in the open world away from any dungeon consideration in the future.

I know all of my ideas aren’t going to be put in, don’t misunderstand, but I gotta say some of them weren’t my ideas at all they were long processed fixes done by other studios in the past with the same exact problems we see in this game (because if you remove the shiny graphics under the surface it really is a spreadsheet with the same issues) like for example the global inherent weakness of pets across every class this is something that’s been experienced in every title and the solution after years and years of hard work on this has always been 90% immunity for pets to all AOE and splash damage types in every single mmo I’ve ever played. It’s not been suggested just by myself either it’s been a mainstay solution in every game and many a game reviewer as well as many a developer have used this simple solution to such a big problem for pet heavy classes for years now.

Things like the solution for the pet heavy classes are what I am talking about when I’ve made mention that there are alot of problems with simple solutions that have already been drummed out that shouldn’t be ignored. I have hope that someone will also review the suggestions Archive because much of what people are asking for has been repeated from that archive over and over, I’ve watched it in the forums these past 2 years.

Ashen.2907:

Well, since it was my post you quoted as part of your response on the subject I shall address the matter with you.

Gene Archer’s post gave the impression, to me at least, that he thought the devs who do the actual production of the game are customer service personnel. It has been pointed out to us, on these forums, in the past that this is not the case. That these individuals post on their own time, that forum activity is not part of their job.

…snip…

I am not a member of any Anet fanclub. I am critical of the company when it seems appropriate to me and supportive when that seems appropriate. Generally more critical than otherwise of late.

I am sorry I misinterpreted your post; I were to venture and guess that some of that may have to do with the limitations of the written word to convey intention and emotion. I reacted the way I did because of how that post came across to me, and it felt like a snarky white knight ‘attack’ on some-one that from my pov tried to voice his opinion in a fairly respectful way. My problem btw. was less with your post, as I viewed it as ‘a rather normal’ level of expression on the internet, but more with the validation by Chris based upon how I perceived it (which was apparently the wrong way, but it’s hard to fault someone on a perception based upon what someone reads, like I said, the written word has it’s limitations)

Then again, your response above here, to me (at first), came across more like a cast of ’ http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposte ’, instead of ’ http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring ’. But seeing how you both responded to each other in the resent posts, I apparently entirely misinterpret your stance and intentions :/ . And from the discussion as a whole I think we would have to conclude that we pretty much agree with one another.

So again I am sorry, as apparently this all originated from a misunderstanding due to the limitations of the written word. Yet on a positive note, I think it resulted in what I think is a valuable addition to the discussion on the topic at hand.

add While taking a small break it dawned on me that it might seem awkward if I do not also say ‘sorry’ to Chris, seeing he might well not have read that post like I did. And while I have no problem doing so, I personally think that he read and understood my reaction to it fairly close to how I intended it … if he didn’t, then I were to venture and guess that based upon the whole discussion it must have become clear by now. Still so we can move on with the discussion and leave no awkward things hanging in the middle: Sorry I jumped the gun there

Hey Chris, thanks so much for all the posts and attention this thread is getting now! Really great to see some more Arenanet interaction with the players, its something that is really needed at the moment i think.

In the interests of transparency could you please explain why the atlas was removed from the website without anyone from Arenanet mentioning it? Also why do we get a lot of big changes not listed in the patch notes? Communicating things like these would really go a long way i think. People would really like to see why you make the choices you make with how you develop the game moving forward.

Hope you enjoyed your weekend!

I just have to say, a big Thank you to Chris!

Now when I load up devtracker, there’s actually stuff to read!

tanf.8917:

Ok, lets take something that actually exist, for example, SAB. How many topics there is about SAB? a lot. Players tried to communicate with you, asking SAB to be back, over & over & over again, and what do we get in return? “SAB will not be returning for awhile”.

That’s not how communication works. So i’m gonna pass.

Some people might not realise the limited ressources Anet has. SAB was a project of a developer who creates new maps (if I remember correctly), currently we venture into new territory and got a new map (DryTop) in the first episodes. It would be really surprising if we stop now in progressing westwards, so I’d assume we get more map(s) soon.

People wanted new maps, everyone wants new maps.

Why would Anet priorize SAB over new maps? Even if SAB fans really want it, it would hurt the core game.

If you ask 10 people what they want you’ll get 20 different answers. You can’t expect Anet to give a answer to everyones questions when they try to keep the new maps a secret. And why are they keeping new maps a secret? I guess it’s to keep expectations on a realistic level.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

tanf.8917:

Ok, lets take something that actually exist, for example, SAB. How many topics there is about SAB? a lot. Players tried to communicate with you, asking SAB to be back, over & over & over again, and what do we get in return? “SAB will not be returning for awhile”.

That’s not how communication works. So i’m gonna pass.

Some people might not realise the limited ressources Anet has. SAB was a project of a developer who creates new maps (if I remember correctly), currently we venture into new territory and got a new map (DryTop) in the first episodes. It would be really surprising if we stop now in progressing westwards, so I’d assume we get more map(s) soon.

People wanted new maps, everyone wants new maps.

Why would Anet priorize SAB over new maps? Even if SAB fans really want it, it would hurt the core game.

If you ask 10 people what they want you’ll get 20 different answers. You can’t expect Anet to give a answer to everyones questions when they try to keep the new maps a secret. And why are they keeping new maps a secret? I guess it’s to keep expectations on a realistic level.

do you know about arenanet = 350+ ppl?

Communication isn’t only hearing what you want to hear.

pelle ossa.9705:

do you know about arenanet = 350+ ppl?

so please tell me how many map designers Anet has! And then tell me how many of those are as good as Mr.SAB.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

tanf.8917:

Ok, lets take something that actually exist, for example, SAB. How many topics there is about SAB? a lot. Players tried to communicate with you, asking SAB to be back, over & over & over again, and what do we get in return? “SAB will not be returning for awhile”.

That’s not how communication works. So i’m gonna pass.

Some people might not realise the limited ressources Anet has. SAB was a project of a developer who creates new maps (if I remember correctly), currently we venture into new territory and got a new map (DryTop) in the first episodes. It would be really surprising if we stop now in progressing westwards, so I’d assume we get more map(s) soon.

People wanted new maps, everyone wants new maps.

Why would Anet priorize SAB over new maps? Even if SAB fans really want it, it would hurt the core game.

Bingo. Marcus nailed it (with regards to the SAB decision). We’ve seen an overwhelming amount of evidence to conclude Josh Foreman was the key environment artist for creating all of the base structure, shape, and possibly even theme of Dry Top. There’s evidence from worldouts that point to an expansion of Dry Top or another new map to the north at some point in the future.

If Josh has been working on Dry Top since early this year, and the area in the north is still being developed, chances are Josh is booked for the rest of the year. To be honest, if the map quality of any maps in 2015 or beyond are the same quality as Dry Top, I’d gladly give up SAB to have Mr. Foreman continue his awesome work at expanding the world of Tyria.

(Note: This is just my personal opinion made from evidence openly available to the community. Only Anet knows exactly who’s working where and how long a given area can be in development.)

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

tanf.8917:

Ok, lets take something that actually exist, for example, SAB. How many topics there is about SAB? a lot. Players tried to communicate with you, asking SAB to be back, over & over & over again, and what do we get in return? “SAB will not be returning for awhile”.

That’s not how communication works. So i’m gonna pass.

Some people might not realise the limited ressources Anet has. SAB was a project of a developer who creates new maps (if I remember correctly), currently we venture into new territory and got a new map (DryTop) in the first episodes. It would be really surprising if we stop now in progressing westwards, so I’d assume we get more map(s) soon.

People wanted new maps, everyone wants new maps.

Why would Anet priorize SAB over new maps? Even if SAB fans really want it, it would hurt the core game.

If you ask 10 people what they want you’ll get 20 different answers. You can’t expect Anet to give a answer to everyones questions when they try to keep the new maps a secret. And why are they keeping new maps a secret? I guess it’s to keep expectations on a realistic level.

I think it’s fairly realistic to want ANet to “turn SAB back on”. It’s already built and i’m sure many people haven’t had the chance to experience it. Even if they only run it every couple weeks or so, i’m sure people would be happier about it, even if it’s not actively being worked on. I know they probably don’t want to take away from the living story, however that’s almost like saying they are going to turn off keg brawl (or any other side activity) since it either doesn’t fit the lore or takes away from living world.

Lich King.1524:

5. If you have best development team – code will be faster, reliable, easier to support and change, less bugs, but you know it Looks like you have very good team. Not a problem now

I do have to disagree with this one item.

From the outside it is not visible why some bugs/errors where not fixed timely and why (probably often) bugs in updates get fixed only in the last minute (and scheduled updates come a few hours later…) and then bugs occur that my have been identified before update with better testing. (of course … not all bugs can be found before going live…).

That could be a money/ressource problem of the company, that could be a management problem, that could be a problem within development team. I do not know this and probably no one outside of A-Net does.

Greetings.

Maybe a big step towards improving communication would be for Anet to tell us who works on what (not in detail but as a overview).

This could help people understand why certain areas/features aren’t being worked on currently – like the SAB example a few posts above.

A lot of people are frustrated, for example, that Anet stated that dungeons aren’t actively being worked on currently. If Anet would state what those “dungeon developers” are working on in general (scripting events for instances, creating instance-layouts,… idk) and then tell us that they are currently busy doing their job, maybe on something that hasn’t been in the game yet – but still nothing specific, some people would get it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Huzzah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjftsPeef_s

For ALS Awareness and fun!

Chris

“Come back, we’re not done — it’s all about iteration!” LMFAO, 10/10. I’d love the opportunity to do that to a couple of my former managers :-D

Back on topic….

Some of the interesting CDI ideas above gave me an idea, especially the point that ranking a la reddit does disrupt linear conversation, which is a big turn off for me as well.

The suggestion of a subforum would be nice, but would quickly grow unwieldy, as we’ve seen in the past.

Some sort of hybrid would be nice, and might be worth the development time to roll your own if there’s nothing off the shelf available. A medium where:

1) Threads are ranked with up/down votes, but not comments. This preserves the discussion on the topics, while allowing more popular concepts to float to the top.

2) Threads may be sorted either by ranking or time posted. “What’s hot” vs. “What’s new”. So we don’t get so fixated on the popular ideas that we miss out on new ones.

3) Ongoing (daily) guaranteed replies/discussion in the top X “hot” threads. Not promises of deliverables, but well thought out, meaningful, insightful discussions.

Less important, but perhaps useful ideas:

• The multiple threads will allow focused discussion to take place with less jumping around, something that killed readability in the other CDIs.

• Comments may still be flagged as unhelpful, and may be hidden if an overwhelming majority of votes identify it as such (this would be helpful on the regular forums, actually. Let the community discourage “toxic” posters without feeding them).

• Heavy moderation would be needed for these discussions. Off topic posts/bickering/long meandering arguments should be removed (not infracted, unless a repeat offender) and the involved parties encouraged to continue the discussion via PMs/regular forums.

• Rank could be by “votes per unique view” to keep a fair entry barrier for newer concepts.

• Alternatively, rank could be a 5-star system, where we can apply some subjective ranking to ideas we like, but find flawed.

• As the discussions grow, there will be similar threads that contain different solutions to the same issues. A way of grouping these (single-word tags, perhaps?) would be useful, especially if we could filter threads by tag.

Like I said, it might take a bit of development effort to build the platform, but it sounds like some new technology needs to be purchased/written to come up with something manageable, anyway.

Oh, and a good search feature would be essential if we’re to have any hope of keeping one thread/topic. The forum’s search functionality is 100% unusable, which makes me sad when I can’t yell at people for making duplicate posts

like: fgs, why is the trading-post still not filterable? —> because the dev responsible for this is deep into a new system which hasn’t been announced yet. The team responsible is working on the question of… (add bulletpoint from Colins list).

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Maybe a big step towards improving communication would be for Anet to tell us who works on what (not in detail but as a overview).

This could help people understand why certain areas/features aren’t being worked on currently – like the SAB example a few posts above.

A lot of people are frustrated, for example, that Anet stated that dungeons aren’t actively being worked on currently. If Anet would state what those “dungeon developers” are working on in general (scripting events for instances, creating instance-layouts,… idk) and then tell us that they are currently busy doing their job, maybe on something that hasn’t been in the game yet – but still nothing specific, some people would get it.

FYI, (source)

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

The Competitive Team is responsible for all more-advanced content in the game. This includes: PvP, WvW, and profession skill balance/game balance in general. This is a pretty big group of areas of responsibility, as you can see. The team’s resources are spoken for in areas that will have impact on the most amount of players, or on changes that are less of impact to them, resource-wise (smaller projects/changes). As such, we have no immediate plans to revamp dungeons due to this resource constraint.

[…]

What are we working on right now? Feature Pack 2 (in ~two more weeks), Season 2 of the Living World (coming back this fall), the WvW Fall Tournament, and the World Tournament Series PvP global tournament are just some of the things we are currently working on that we can tell you about right now.

Not as detailed as you asked for, nor does it explain why they think it’s a good idea to spread their people so thin across the game, but it’s something along the lines you were asking about

It seems that the game is just too big to have people work on stuff without making others die in frustration.

The only solution I could make out of that would be to expand – hire more experts to have more ressources working on the different aspects of the game. Communication wouldn’t help really since you can’t split a developer.

Dev X who is responsible for A, B and C is working on B. A&C-Fans: BOOOOOO!!