Sincerly, Me.
Dangerous precedent: Watchwork Pick
Scarlet will be defeated in a few months and sprockets will go with her. The only way to obtain them will be the node, which is fine if you earned it. Other wise you need to purchase an item in the store, that in no way seems fair or morally right.
Second they are adding abilities to picks now, this essentially makes all other purchased harvesting tools inferior, that is in no way right as people purchased previous tools under the understanding that they would be the best obtainable. What next? In two months do we get an even better pick making this purchase pointless?
No, this is wrong on many levels and needs to be taken off the store or changed.
“I am Evon Gnashblade and this message is acceptable to me.”
I already bought an endless pick… and now they released a new version, so I’d need to have two to have a complete set of gathering tools. This sucks. Plus getting functionality that isn’t available elsewhere to gain a specific advantage by spending real cash is a crappy move.
I don’t think Pay to Win means what you think it means. Pay to Win is when people can use Strength Boosters, etc in WvW for an advantage not obtainable from any other source but Black Lion Kits (something I’m very unhappy about; something nobody else seems to have noticed). Something that generates additional ingame income for an initial ingame income investment via gems doesn’t fit the definition of Pay to Win as it does not change any battle outcome. Furthermore gems are entirely obtainable without you spending real world cash – all of my additional bank and character slots, and the 100+ transmutation crystals came entirely from gold. Depending on the situation it may widen the gap between haves and have nots, but that is not Pay to Win by its definition. That is not to say it is desirable – I do not support this implementation either, but you’re using the wrong term.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it pay to win since the sprockets do not provide you any advantage over other players.
Exactly. Which is exactly like buying gold. That don’t provide any advantage over other players.
I don’t get why people are suddenly bothered by things already happening.
The only thing the sprocket mining pick do is making people more gold. Which is already what you can do now with gem conversion.
The sprockets aren’t what most of us (or me) are talking about. It’s the precedent that it sets. There is no other way to get these without the pick at certain times. It makes it so that if you use a gem shop item you can get something that others can not acquire at certain times. That is setting a precedent for other items to do this with that may be more important and it’s also doing it with something seemingly innocuous. Next time it will be something more important and then it happens again and again until it’s the new normal.
That’s not true. I get sprockets daily in my home instance without one of these picks.
#TeamJadeQuarry
The term for those who already spent a ton of cash for multiple sets of gathering tools is ‘getting screwed over’.
Language is a virus from outer space.
William S. Burroughs
William S. Burroughs
“Pay 2 Win” is the new buzzword that people use to stir up dander. Even if it doesn’t really apply, it’s a go-to saying that can get people’s blood boiling and responding to what they deem is a “dangerous precedent.”
On one hand, it’d be wonderful if people didn’t invoke the phrase every single kitten time something changes pertaining to the gem store. It dilutes the actual meaning of “Pay 2 Win” and eventually people will begin to tune it out… making the times it DOES apply less meaningful.
On the other, we could also do when it IS invoked to understand it’s hyperbole for the sake of hyperbole, and ignore it when it comes up and focus on the real issue.
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
The term for those who already spent a ton of cash for multiple sets of gathering tools is ‘getting screwed over’.
Odd… I bought a full set for my mesmer main and the question I have now is whether or not I want one of these picks (I can give the one I have to an alt), not whether or not I was ‘screwed over’ for buying the pick I have months ago. I really don’t feel screwed over in the slightest, as a matter of fact I’m probably one of the target audience they’re shooting for, someone who bought the infinite items in the past that needed a little extra incentive to do so again. Was I going to buy more infinite gathering tools? Probably not. Will I now? A definite maybe. I just might, these little proc add-ons are interesting.
When I can take one of the new picks and one-shot Tequatl or solo-cap Stonemist then I’ll complain about pay to win.
I still think we should be able to dual wield mining picks.
#TeamJadeQuarry
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
Yes, technological progress sucks. We should stop getting new things because they might be better than old things and that will make old people mad that their old things aren’t new things with new things added to them.
#TeamJadeQuarry
This new tool grants people having it an unfair advantage because there currently is no other way to get an item similar to it.
My Idea:
Why not let gathering tools have a slot. Then allow crafting professions to make upgrades for them for nodes that have gone away. This would cover all the bases if recipes were released for everything we have had in the past and it would help with current TP inflation on those items. You could even make general ones such as 20% chance to get more ore.
I believe that would even the playing field.
| 80 (Guardian) Rusty Tooth | 80 (Warrior) Razer Tooth | 80 (Ranger) Eir Stegallkin |
| 80 (Mesmer) Brook Envision | 80 (Thief) Kuro Rin |
| 80 (Mesmer) Brook Envision | 80 (Thief) Kuro Rin |
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
Yes, technological progress sucks. We should stop getting new things because they might be better than old things and that will make old people mad that their old things aren’t new things with new things added to them.
You would have a point if technology limited these items. Instead it’s artificial limitation, or lack of foresight on a net’s marketing team. These are not washing machines.
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
Yes, technological progress sucks. We should stop getting new things because they might be better than old things and that will make old people mad that their old things aren’t new things with new things added to them.
You would have a point if technology limited these items. Instead it’s artificial limitation, or lack of foresight on a net’s marketing team. These are not washing machines.
Do you really think they designed these picks back in 2012 with the intent on releasing them in Jan 2014 or something? Someone, somewhere, is sitting around thinking to himself “How can we make these a little better or a little more tempting for people to buy?” That’s a good thing, for that’s what will result in new and interesting things in the future as well. As long as they continue to avoid the dreaded “pay to win” like they are then I have no problem with this.
#TeamJadeQuarry
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
Yes, technological progress sucks. We should stop getting new things because they might be better than old things and that will make old people mad that their old things aren’t new things with new things added to them.
You would have a point if technology limited these items. Instead it’s artificial limitation, or lack of foresight on a net’s marketing team. These are not washing machines.
if you honestly have that little faith in the devs. Then go find another game. Every “slippery slope” argument operates of the idea that the devs are permanently looking for ways to cheat us. Anyone who genuinely believes that this is their goal should go find a different game.
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
In the real world, prices get reduced, items get bundled together as a deal, and so forth. If you bought an iPad from Apple one day for $400 and then several months later they do a promotion with it being $299 and including a free 3-month subscription to Netflix would you complain that to be fair and feel justified or entitled to a refund?
This is another argument that I’m seeing in the thread. Nowhere did I see Anet state the items would be BiS. That’s something a handful of users assumed and started spreading. The fact of the matter is that products change over time and new features are added. This is just how things work. People bought the picks and such for the convenice of inlimited use. Just because an item is released at a later date with more features, or better animation, does mean you’re entitled to a refund.
I know you didn’t explicitly state refund but that’s essentially what this argument is about. It’s identical to the same thread we see pop up about the different versions of the game you can buy with the additional items that weren’t present to those that bought the game at launch.
I don’t see the additional sprockets, or whatever else they could potentially add, as harmful so long as its tradeable. If it’s tradeable then it can be sold on the TP resulting in prices dropping further. Pretty desirable effect if its a rare item if I must say.
Now what is to stop ANet from retroactively adding a 20% chance to mine Azurite Orbs to molten mining pick? It’s not the sprockets themselves, it’s the “what will they do next?”.
~This is the internet, my (or your) opinion doesn’t matter~
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
Yes, technological progress sucks. We should stop getting new things because they might be better than old things and that will make old people mad that their old things aren’t new things with new things added to them.
You would have a point if technology limited these items. Instead it’s artificial limitation, or lack of foresight on a net’s marketing team. These are not washing machines.
Do you really think they designed these picks back in 2012 with the intent on releasing them in Jan 2014 or something? Someone, somewhere, is sitting around thinking to himself “How can we make these a little better or a little more tempting for people to buy?” That’s a good thing, for that’s what will result in new and interesting things in the future as well. As long as they continue to avoid the dreaded “pay to win” like they are then I have no problem with this.
I am not insinuating nefarious intent. I’m stating poor marketing. They need sales, I get that. A better thought process would have been “let’s add an account buff that gives 20% chance on picks giving watchworks.” And release a new Watchwork skin. They could do that infinitely with gather ables and nobody would have cared, because it is in fact worthless.
Now the issue here, once again, is the precedent. Next year it will be a new pick with 100% chance at finding rare drops. Not very creative and ultimately an alienated player base is created.
Sorry, Volkon, I suspect you will never see the issue of a snowball effect here and how marketing relations are easily crumbled in the face of consumers.
Sorry, I can’t see how this is pay to win.
Now what is to stop ANet from retroactively adding a 20% chance to mine Azurite Orbs to molten mining pick? It’s not the sprockets themselves, it’s the “what will they do next?”.
If they did that, the supply of Azurite Orbs would go up, the price would go down, and everyone trying to collect Azurite would be better off.
A pay to win scenario would be if Azurite Orbs were untradeable, and thus that reworked mining pick was the only way to collect it, and thus to collect the stats that it gives. Even then, the argument would be on shaky ground as the pick itself can essentially be bought with in-game gold via gem exchange.
As for those complaining about the older infinite picks, keep in mind that at the time that you purchased those, you made a conscious valuation of the item and decided that the item was worth it’s price to you. The release of a new item doesn’t change the utility you receive from the item you already valued and bought.
(edited by Subdue.5479)
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
Yes, technological progress sucks. We should stop getting new things because they might be better than old things and that will make old people mad that their old things aren’t new things with new things added to them.
You would have a point if technology limited these items. Instead it’s artificial limitation, or lack of foresight on a net’s marketing team. These are not washing machines.
if you honestly have that little faith in the devs. Then go find another game. Every “slippery slope” argument operates of the idea that the devs are permanently looking for ways to cheat us. Anyone who genuinely believes that this is their goal should go find a different game.
Oh great the “go find another game” argument. Good one. This is the community anet created.. wee.
Heck, even allow is to trade our tools for different tools using badges or black lion skin tokens. But having to repurchase something is BS
Cmdr. Kiro Heimdahl
Warrior
Far Shiverpeaks
Warrior
Far Shiverpeaks
I stared reading this post outraged. And then I stopped be outraged and started being smart. The amount of Watchwork Sprockets you will get from this pick will be tiny compared with just buying gems to gold and then TP. There is nothing wrong with this pick at all. It’s a cosmetic skin, with COSMETIC loot. No one will buy this skin and make money from it. They will buy the skin for the looks, and the way its passive fits its theme.
tl;dr. the pick will LOSE you money, making it pay to LOSE.
Perhaps you should have continued to read, as you missed the point entirely.
The issue is the precedent. What is to say a new pick doesn’t come out in a month which gives a 40% chance at sprockets? Then in a year every hit.
The issue is TRUST and customer satisfaction. Right now I have no reason to believe any purchase I make will not get trumped and therefor have no reason to buy from the shop.
Yes, technological progress sucks. We should stop getting new things because they might be better than old things and that will make old people mad that their old things aren’t new things with new things added to them.
You would have a point if technology limited these items. Instead it’s artificial limitation, or lack of foresight on a net’s marketing team. These are not washing machines.
if you honestly have that little faith in the devs. Then go find another game. Every “slippery slope” argument operates of the idea that the devs are permanently looking for ways to cheat us. Anyone who genuinely believes that this is their goal should go find a different game.
The devs aren’t trying to cheat us, that is not the problem here, and never was. Neither is the fact they are just trying to make a buck or two in the absence of a subscription fee or paid expansion(big full featured expansion or small dlc pack sized expansion).
I see no reason to buy this new item that is better than the old mining pick I bought,….if Anet is just going to make another mining pick in 6 months that ends up being even better. Thats an endless gear treadmill in a way, one you have to pay for in the gem store no less, and it is something Anet has promised would never happen in this game.
Me and many other people just want some clarification on what Anet’s plans are as far as these items go.
Now the issue here, once again, is the precedent. Next year it will be a new pick with 100% chance at finding rare drops. Not very creative and ultimately an alienated player base is created.
Sorry, Volkon, I suspect you will never see the issue of a snowball effect here and how marketing relations are easily crumbled in the face of consumers.
Sorry, your hyperbolic extrapolation of the matter makes it a little laughable to take the argument seriously. I’m sure you understand why the italicized portion really needs to be rephrased.
The issue brought up is the precedent. However, it should be noted there was a decent idea here which is not terribly unbalancing.
But what should be more of interest is not the precedent itself. It’s how people on one side of this are looking at the precedent and immediately deciding ArenaNet cannot be trusted to know where the line is between “pay for a minor advantage” and “pay for an exclusive advantage”.
More alarming than the precedent is the observation of how the people posting here are dead certain the people making this game have either no idea of what they’re doing, or don’t care.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
I just think it is a dangerous game Anet is playing. Many people bought the molten alliance mining pick int he belief it is the BiS.
I understand the (no where did Anet said that promise part). I’m just saying when Anet start doing things like this, they might loss some customer.
I understand the Anet need to find ways to make money part. I just think they should think of other things to add instead. (I don’t know what, but I think their gem store department could think of something better).
Now the issue here, once again, is the precedent. Next year it will be a new pick with 100% chance at finding rare drops. Not very creative and ultimately an alienated player base is created.
Sorry, Volkon, I suspect you will never see the issue of a snowball effect here and how marketing relations are easily crumbled in the face of consumers.
Sorry, your hyperbolic extrapolation of the matter makes it a little laughable to take the argument seriously. I’m sure you understand why the italicized portion really needs to be rephrased.
The issue brought up is the precedent. However, it should be noted there was a decent idea here which is not terribly unbalancing.
But what should be more of interest is not the precedent itself. It’s how people on one side of this are looking at the precedent and immediately deciding ArenaNet cannot be trusted to know where the line is between “pay for a minor advantage” and “pay for an exclusive advantage”.
More alarming than the precedent is the observation of how the people posting here are dead certain the people making this game have either no idea of what they’re doing, or don’t care.
I admit it was a stretch, but I did so to illustrate the point (albeit through exaggeration). The arguments put forth against me seemed to skirt every point I had made throughout the thread.
As I stated before, I don’t think there is nefarious intent. I do believe it was oversight. The thing is, with the exclusive skin debacle late last year I do have less trust in the management of resources and management of the store and the direction for it. Yes. What way should consumers read the recent shift in decisions they have made?
Yes, they removed the skin. Yes, they amended…but how did it get to that point? Lack of knowledge in their own mission? Lack of management on gem store resources? I’m unsure, and that uncertainty is alarming as a consumer.
When I first looked at the pick, I thought, “do I want another unlimited pick for convenience?”
Now that I see this about the 20% sprockets, my thought is “will I need this pick for the sprockets?”
I feel PRESSURE to buy for functionality, not DESIRE to buy for convenience/style.
Therefore, I give it thumbs down.
My point is two-fold.
a) This is not about “money” but the general direction of acquiring in-game materials
b) I wondered about how the materials for living story content will be acquired going forward and I do not agree with this particular solution.Again, it’s (for me) the same point really, how is it acquired, not the quantity and not the “value”.
I think with all the “pay-to-win” screams, I wasn’t hearing this argument clearly. (I particularly like the below point regarding items bought off the TP as adding supply to the game that wouldn’t ordinarily be there.) I agree with the issue being a method of acquiring items going forward, and not specifically with sprockets because of the home node. I disagree that this creates a dangerous precedent merely because it offers a chance at an item because the item is also provided through another non-gemstore method. There isn’t any reason to think it would ever be something that isn’t also available through other methods.
Let’s let the list aside – why not simply adding a chance for sprockets to drop from any node regardless of which tool is used … if this is really only about giving people an option to acquire the item?
I think this is a good alternative. I think the drop rate should be reduced as well and put it on par with receiving a jewel as an extra drop.
Yes I would be upset. Realize the difference and the fine line. Technically yes, this game was “p2w” from the start because of the gem to gold conversion. However, the materials in question are not generated from someone who bought them from the store. They came through playing and are then traded. See how beautifully this is constructed, we are entering a half zone … the material is not bought directly, but only through playing with the item from the store you are acquiring it.
Which is of course also part of the next point.
~snip~
I think I understand what you are pointing out. I agree with the idea that the gemstore shouldn’t be making mats to add to the game since it all about supply and demand. I doubt that they would ever have a direct buy option because of this. So, even though the pick only provides a chance to get an item, it is a specific item. And, if it really creates a precedence, then it is possible that future items will not have alternative in game means of getting the item, which would be the issue, right?
But why? Is it because of the price point? (see above) Maybe in a year we’ll be able to buy a new tool for 2000 gems that will combine all the benefits of previously released tools?
I don’t have an issue with tools getting better and better and having the price point increase to justify the changes. It seems most people dislike that this pick is priced the same as previous picks while offering something more. I would prefer to pay less for more, but to each their own.
The point here was how we will get them, not that the nodes themselves exist.
At the end of the day I’m not here to convince other players of my point of view. I like to present it and I appreciate reading different opinions. I think I said my part here and I am not trying to spread fear or discredit Anet. I also don’t usually jump into p2w threads, but in this case I believe a very fine line is being crossed and we should ask ourselves how it will change the game, our perception of the game and the genre in general.
I am the same way. I enjoy reading the opinions and ideas of others. And I appreciate your willingness to counter my opinions and offer your own, in a very nice, undramatic, clear, concise, etc, way.
My suggestion:
Modify all ore nodes to include sprockets as a “jewel”. Include it in the list and leave the jewel chances the same.
— everyone, new, old, indifferent, will have chances at getting them. The home node should still drive enough supply to keep the prices reasonable and a fair amount of supply continually in game. I would imagine the prices staying less than most lower tier gemstones, which, to me, is reasonable.
Modify the new watchwork pick to be instead, a 20% increase in extra resources, which stacks with the gathering booster, or not, depending on how the gathering booster works with guild banners.
— this still provides 1. the “extra” incentive that most think might have been the point of the new pick’s properties, and 2. an incentive that already exists through other means and is consistent with other items in the gem store and in the game. It also shouldn’t unduly affect players that choose not to buy it.
I completely agree. I saw this and just shook my head. Dangerously close to P2W. What is next? A harvesting tool that also gets pristine spores?
I wouldn’t mind a harvesting tool that spits out precursors. P2W for the win!
Seriously though, this shouldn’t happen.
#ELEtism on Eredon Terrace
I like the new pick and i dont have problem with this
most people whining now about are this people with 5+ bankingchars full with sprockets cause they think soon when scarlet end this will have some worth (rare than)
most people whining now about are this people with 5+ bankingchars full with sprockets cause they think soon when scarlet end this will have some worth (rare than)
You obviously did not even bother to read a single one of the other posts explaining why this is a bad move by Arena Net. If you are going to argue with people then at least make the attempt to understand the issue they have with the pick.
“I am Evon Gnashblade and this message is acceptable to me.”
I like the new pick and i dont have problem with this
most people whining now about are this people with 5+ bankingchars full with sprockets cause they think soon when scarlet end this will have some worth (rare than)
Based on the whining from this thread, some of us might make a lot of money for a few days. Until the next thing to cry about. This is only the beginning
Venkas
Ehmry Bay/Haven Community
A Commander sometimes
Ehmry Bay/Haven Community
A Commander sometimes
(…)So GW2 is already pay 2 win 1 year ago? many skins can’t be obtained through normal game play.
I’mma let y’all read that one again. Ok, so…
1) fancy skins mean you win the game. lolwut?
2) skins = vanity items; reasonable people would agree that charging for vanity items is ok
3) who again are you winning against by buying that fancy pick? the gold ore node?
If you want to talk about P2W look at the guy who has a high-speed connection going to his 8k super computer vs Joe Blow on DSL with a $500 steam-powered rig from Walmart.
Dances with Leaves – Guardian – Sanctum of Rall (SoR)
(edited by Mattargul.9235)
Please Anet get rid of this bonus.
Vanity or Convenience is fine, but commercial gain from paying for item is wrong and why I have always loved GW/GW2.
Anyone saying this isn’t pay to win… what happens in 6months when they decided to release a item… that gives a %+ chance at getting a precursors?
Its not so much about the sprockets but the direction the game is headed that is upsetting people. Sprockets are 100% useless. The fact there making a gem store item not only more convenient (which is OK) but there also adding in extra value to the item that cant be gotten in game (not ok).
I am sorry to say the flimsy excuse of you can get a home node is sad. That would work if you could get one or the other. When you have access to both your given a unfair advantage.
Who is to say sprockets in the future what command a huge premium. I wonder how much different these forums would look if sprockets could be used to speed up ascended crafting times. How about if they are suddenly needed for the precursor crafting that’s “Coming Soon™” Possibilitys are limitless to where ANET could go they shown a willingness to throw caution to the wind if they think it can be profitable.
I bet if this flys in the next 1-2 months we will see a enhanced silver-Fed Salvage-o-Matic that gives a enhanced chance at ecto….
As far as them not responding most likely there pulling the numbers to see if there profits are out weighting the outrage and potential lost profits.
Anets already proven to me there not a very sound moral company. They silence those they dont like. They sadly ignore support tickets on subjects they dont care for. There just not a very user friendly company anymore. I would even go as far as saying there as bad as Comcast and Bank of America.
Sadly this is just another nail in that coffin another once great company that will fall by the waste side in a few years when there flagship product slowly loses support of the consumer.
I’ve been watching this topic since it started, and after thinking about it while reading and keeping up with it all, I want to say the following:
1) There is no such thing as Pay to Win. Pay to Compete would be more accurate, since even if you do shell out the money for whatever, there will be someone else that shelled out money for the same thing, so you’ll still have competition with whomever also paid for the same boons. I’ve actually played a game where in order to be at a competitive level, you had to pay money. It was simply impossible to be competitive without doing so.
2) Unless I missed some post or advertisement somewhere, there has never been any mention of previous infinite gathering tools being forever the “best in slot” tools. In fact, I would say it would have been foolish for them to have ever said that. If anyone made that assumption, then it was a mistake on the buyer’s part… not ANet’s. I don’t believe anyone should get a refund at all. I could see being able to purchase an upgrade for their existing tools so they are on par with what is now there, but that’s about as far as I would deem necessary.
3) This item is hardly a game-breaking item. There are, in fact, other means of getting the sprockets,. You could:
a) Get a sprocket node from the LS event currently underway
b) Make friends with someone that has one of these nodes and use theirs
c) Buy the sprockets from the Trading Post
d) Get the pickaxe
Multiple ways of getting it. Not a broken mechanic.
I’ve played several MMORPGS and several other games, and one thing is consistent, regardless of the game. The forum goers often cry foul and talk about the "evil money-grubbing company that funds it, without taking into consideration one fundamental principle: They are in business to make money… all of them.
It would be naive to think that they would put the infinite tools up only once, alienating newer players who would not have the opportunity to buy the infinite tools. It would also be naive to assume that they would add the same tools over and over again without upgrading the tools at some point in time, since eventually, they wouldn’t make enough money on the tools to warrant posting them, since most of the people interested in the items would already have bought them (I’m making an assumption that the further along the game goes, the fewer new players enter the game, which is pretty consistent throughout all MMORPGs.
I don’t feel a disservice has been made with this item… at all.
Forum Warrior/Mesmer according to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-Classes/first#post3577563
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-Classes/first#post3577563
What if this Sprocket feature would have come with the option to Upgrade your current pick?
- one release of the stand-alone Watchwork pick with the same features as the previous 2 infinite picks and the skin on the Watchwork Pick 800gems
- one release of the Sprocket upgrade feature 200 gems
- one release of just the Watchwork Skin alone 200gems
- The first one would be good for people that don’t have an infinite pick yet
- This one would be good for those that want the Sprocket feature on their old infinite picks or to upgrade the pick they bought from the first option
- Last option for those who have the old infinite pick and just want to change the look and don’t care about the Sprocket feature.
Just thought I would throw that out there as an alternative.
A lot of misconceptions in this thread so far, and people seem to keep ignoring that watchwork sprockets themselves are not the issue.
Either way, I think the controversial nature of this topic is enough to show Anet that there is a lot of interest in this. The lack of response so far, however, is discouraging.
Please keep it civilized to prevent this thread from being locked.
This game is moving closer and closer to being a trashy F2P title, both from a gameplay and cash shop perspective. Disappointing.
(…)So GW2 is already pay 2 win 1 year ago? many skins can’t be obtained through normal game play.
I’mma let y’all read that one again. Ok, so…
1) fancy skins mean you win the game. lolwut?
2) skins = vanity items; reasonable people would agree that charging for vanity items is ok
3) who again are you winning against by buying that fancy pick? the gold ore node?If you want to talk about P2W look at the guy who has a high-speed connection going to his 8k super computer vs Joe Blow on DSL with a $500 steam-powered rig from Walmart.
Everyone is just throwing around their definition of P2W. I’m just kindly asking the guy what he consider p2w.
And actual a few people consider anything you can’t get from normal game play as p2w.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
I don’t like this at all, I think 12 euros was pretty steep for a convenience item but bought a set of infinite tools anyway, and now they’re being replaced by a better version and I have to pay 12 euros again? Wtf? And in half a year I have to replace them again because they release a better pick that harvests twice as much materials?
12 euros per tool should remain best in slot, forever. A full set of them already cost as much as I paid for the full game!
Now the issue here, once again, is the precedent. Next year it will be a new pick with 100% chance at finding rare drops. Not very creative and ultimately an alienated player base is created.
Sorry, Volkon, I suspect you will never see the issue of a snowball effect here and how marketing relations are easily crumbled in the face of consumers.
Sorry, your hyperbolic extrapolation of the matter makes it a little laughable to take the argument seriously. I’m sure you understand why the italicized portion really needs to be rephrased.
The issue brought up is the precedent. However, it should be noted there was a decent idea here which is not terribly unbalancing.
But what should be more of interest is not the precedent itself. It’s how people on one side of this are looking at the precedent and immediately deciding ArenaNet cannot be trusted to know where the line is between “pay for a minor advantage” and “pay for an exclusive advantage”.
More alarming than the precedent is the observation of how the people posting here are dead certain the people making this game have either no idea of what they’re doing, or don’t care.
People will be people and we’ve seen it before, time and time again, in every game, in real life. History constantly repeating itself over and over again. Warnings go out and then when something comes everyone acts like they are surprised.
I guess that is “Alarming”.
This game is moving closer and closer to being a trashy F2P title, both from a gameplay and cash shop perspective. Disappointing.
I’m starting to agree on this one. Shame.
This game is moving closer and closer to being a trashy F2P title, both from a gameplay and cash shop perspective. Disappointing.
I’m starting to agree on this one. Shame.
I still totally disagree with this one, and find it shameful that bitter players keep trying to dip into that well to express their disappointment.
I’ve been watching this topic since it started, and after thinking about it while reading and keeping up with it all, I want to say the following:
1) There is no such thing as Pay to Win. Pay to Compete would be more accurate, since even if you do shell out the money for whatever, there will be someone else that shelled out money for the same thing, so you’ll still have competition with whomever also paid for the same boons. I’ve actually played a game where in order to be at a competitive level, you had to pay money. It was simply impossible to be competitive without doing so.
2) Unless I missed some post or advertisement somewhere, there has never been any mention of previous infinite gathering tools being forever the “best in slot” tools. In fact, I would say it would have been foolish for them to have ever said that. If anyone made that assumption, then it was a mistake on the buyer’s part… not ANet’s. I don’t believe anyone should get a refund at all. I could see being able to purchase an upgrade for their existing tools so they are on par with what is now there, but that’s about as far as I would deem necessary.
3) This item is hardly a game-breaking item. There are, in fact, other means of getting the sprockets,. You could:
a) Get a sprocket node from the LS event currently underway
b) Make friends with someone that has one of these nodes and use theirs
c) Buy the sprockets from the Trading Post
d) Get the pickaxeMultiple ways of getting it. Not a broken mechanic.
I’ve played several MMORPGS and several other games, and one thing is consistent, regardless of the game. The forum goers often cry foul and talk about the "evil money-grubbing company that funds it, without taking into consideration one fundamental principle: They are in business to make money… all of them.
It would be naive to think that they would put the infinite tools up only once, alienating newer players who would not have the opportunity to buy the infinite tools. It would also be naive to assume that they would add the same tools over and over again without upgrading the tools at some point in time, since eventually, they wouldn’t make enough money on the tools to warrant posting them, since most of the people interested in the items would already have bought them (I’m making an assumption that the further along the game goes, the fewer new players enter the game, which is pretty consistent throughout all MMORPGs.
I don’t feel a disservice has been made with this item… at all.
Question? Who in their right mind is going to purchase the old infinites if the new ones have bonuses? Anet will never sell another molten pick.
I would go so far to say that players will continue to buy character slots and with more characters, more of these things get sold. They don’t necessarily have to be new to the game. They are convenience items after all.
Many in this thread just don’t get it. I’d be willing to bet though that if Anet had not upgraded existing Legendaries to the Now Stat adjustable versions, then these people would understand the real issue here.
poor, poor anet. always blamed by players for ncsoft’s marketing decisions. it’s not the devs who are rich, it’s the ncsoft executives laughing their way to the bank.
do you think anet has a say in where the money earned from gems goes? no! it’s all going to ncsoft, the publisher, who in the end decide where to “invest”, which might be in gw2 (yeah, right..), wildstar, or blade & soul or whatever evil giant corporation scheme they have.
in any case, anet’s manifesto was all a lie. what will you do about it?
will pay for a dolly rocket booster
I haven’t seen this clarified but might have missed it. Does the chance for sprockets replace the chance for bonus jewel stones that exists with the molten pick or is it in addition to it?
Alts-R-Us ~ All professions at 80 ~ Still leveling characters.
Main? What “main”? I play all of them sooner or later.
Main? What “main”? I play all of them sooner or later.
What difference does it make? I just use the normal picks in game and it works fine. I have no need for the ore or the sprockets to win and be a good player. I have never spent a dime on this game and every day I wipe the floor with cash shop users.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Keep any infinite tools as pure convenience/cosmetic items, no bonus loot.
I really am going to giggle at the whole “Sprokets are everywhere” crowd when the Berserker crit bonus → Ferocity nerf hits and people notice how incredibly powerful the Zealot’s/Keeper’s gear actually is.
3,000 for your armor and another 1,000-2,000 for your weapons. They’re going to evaporate like water ice on Mercury.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I haven’t seen this clarified but might have missed it. Does the chance for sprockets replace the chance for bonus jewel stones that exists with the molten pick or is it in addition to it?
It has been tested and speculated (though not confirmed) that the sprocket takes the place of the chance of getting a second ore deposit, so there is now no chance of getting two pieces of ore from one strike.
This was copied and pasted from another post in the Black Lion Trading Forum:
Now that the pick has been out a little while more data is out on the mining pick. What the pick does is replace the extra ore you may have received from a swing with a sprocket.
So you may get:
-1x ore
-1x ore + 1x crafting material (gemstone)
-1x ore + 1x Sprocket
You can no longer get the 2x ore.
*mind you this is a small sample size
Forum Warrior/Mesmer according to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-Classes/first#post3577563
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-Classes/first#post3577563
(edited by TChalla.7146)