Did GW2 lose its identity?
Just because something has the potential, however small, to change doesn’t mean that it will happen.
Agreed. But it also doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
“We didn’t originally intend it to work like that” is not the same as “we won’t do this”
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I’m not saying the game is evil for having raids. But I do think raids are bad for the game. I certainly don’t think they’re helping the game.
Vayne, I usually agree with a lot that you say, but I think you’re being just a tiny bit paranoid here. Of course there are people out there who run far away from anything associated with raids, but there are also a lot of people that can contribute to a healthy playerbase of this game that are attracted by the fact that raids are among the things this game offers, or helped getting into this game by having raids and dungeons like they are used to from previous games.
Personally, I’m as casual as they come. My days of active raiding are long past (in another MMO). Among my many friends in this game are people that haven’t set foot in a dungeon as well as those that thoroughly enjoy dungeons, fractals, and raids on a daily basis. Mostly though I see a lot of people enjoying the fact that you can do all kinds of different things in this game, and to many of them a raid here or there is an enrichment of their gaming experience. I’ve also met quite a few people coming from other games who have thoroughly converted to the “casual play as you like” style of GW2 by now but kind of needed the familiar surroundings of dungeons and raids to transition from traditional-style MMOs to this game.
In my opinion GW2 has lost none of the identity it has had for me for 4+ years. The features that make this game stand apart from other MMOs and that have quickly taken root in my preferences and spoilt me for other games out there are here and if anything more strongly now than they were back at the start.
Variety of content to play, and ease to jump in play a huge part for me. I don’t have to farm specific dungeons to get the current BiS gear to get into endgame (no matter if we’re talking raids, wvw, or whatever). I don’t have to farm the same questline with each character separately to unlock whatever achievement is needed to even access specific content. I don’t have to play content I don’t enjoy, because there’s always comparable rewards to be had in other content. It may not be the same rewards, they may be a bit less convenient to what I have in mind, but they’ll be there and enable me to enjoy whatever content I want to play nonetheless.
GW2 very much has a strong identity as a game that sets it apart from similar games. Not everything is done the way I’d dream of, but there’s always more fun things to do and to enjoy than I even have time to play. And I don’t see this changing anytime soon.
My favorite restaurant adding a new dish to their menu, while continuing to serve the dishes that are my reason for eating there, does not bother me. If I dont want to eat the new chicken dish I can continue to order my favorite steak dinner.
If however you will add steak and burgers to a menu of a previously vegan restaurant, and start putting burgers on that restaurant adds, you’re going to lose a lot of the customers. Because meat in that restaurant is going to bother them.
Or, for even better example, try to add pork chops to the kosher restaurant menu. It’s not going to end well.
It’s funny though that you first start off by saying that raids changed the identity of the game and now state not many people would purchase it if it were sold separately. How can something that only interests very few players be game identity changing for the rest of the players who do not raid?
Because game identity change in this case is not shaped by players, but by devs.
But please don’t try to make the argument that raiding is somehow inherently wrong for ANet’s franchise.
Not wrong in the moral sense. Just damaging.
Just as a vegan restaurant and a steak bar are equally good franchises, with none of them better than the other. And yet trying to transition either way is likely to ruin the business.
Raids are not wrong. Liking them is not wrong. Their introduction was just a mistake for this game.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I’m not saying the game is evil for having raids. But I do think raids are bad for the game. I certainly don’t think they’re helping the game.
Vayne, I usually agree with a lot that you say, but I think you’re being just a tiny bit paranoid here. Of course there are people out there who run far away from anything associated with raids, but there are also a lot of people that can contribute to a healthy playerbase of this game that are attracted by the fact that raids are among the things this game offers, or helped getting into this game by having raids and dungeons like they are used to from previous games.
Personally, I’m as casual as they come. My days of active raiding are long past (in another MMO). Among my many friends in this game are people that haven’t set foot in a dungeon as well as those that thoroughly enjoy dungeons, fractals, and raids on a daily basis. Mostly though I see a lot of people enjoying the fact that you can do all kinds of different things in this game, and to many of them a raid here or there is an enrichment of their gaming experience. I’ve also met quite a few people coming from other games who have thoroughly converted to the “casual play as you like” style of GW2 by now but kind of needed the familiar surroundings of dungeons and raids to transition from traditional-style MMOs to this game.
In my opinion GW2 has lost none of the identity it has had for me for 4+ years. The features that make this game stand apart from other MMOs and that have quickly taken root in my preferences and spoilt me for other games out there are here and if anything more strongly now than they were back at the start.
Variety of content to play, and ease to jump in play a huge part for me. I don’t have to farm specific dungeons to get the current BiS gear to get into endgame (no matter if we’re talking raids, wvw, or whatever). I don’t have to farm the same questline with each character separately to unlock whatever achievement is needed to even access specific content. I don’t have to play content I don’t enjoy, because there’s always comparable rewards to be had in other content. It may not be the same rewards, they may be a bit less convenient to what I have in mind, but they’ll be there and enable me to enjoy whatever content I want to play nonetheless.
GW2 very much has a strong identity as a game that sets it apart from similar games. Not everything is done the way I’d dream of, but there’s always more fun things to do and to enjoy than I even have time to play. And I don’t see this changing anytime soon.
Even paranoids have enemies.
This game was, more or less, once really close to what I wanted in an MMO. It’s now less close to what I want and it’s moving further from that. But at least some people even in this thread do feel like the game is losing it’s identity. I was one of the people who said, early on in this thread, that I don’t think it is. That is I play HOT maps the same way I played core Tyria maps.
But more and more now, people are blasting through content faster to get to raids, which is what many consider to be traditional end game. It’s changed a lot of how at least new people to get the game respond to the game.
Sure there are some hold outs and throw backs. I’m just not 100% sure it will remain that way. The more prevalent raids are on forums and on reddit, on twitch and on youtube, the more likely people looking for the game will see raids as a thing. As someone else said no one is really streaming anything but raids now. That doesn’t mean most people raid, but how will people looking for stuff on twitch interpret that.
I’m not thinking this thing will happen right away, but I perceive a drift and there is no telling how far that drift will take us. And I do believe it has cost this company money and players. I can’t prove it. I simply believe it.
This game was, more or less, once really close to what I wanted in an MMO. It’s now less close to what I want and it’s moving further from that.
Fair enough. I’m lucky in that I can say the oposite: This game was, more or less, once really close to what I wanted in an MMO, and it’s now moving closer and closer to my perfect MMO.
I see many players around me coming from traditional MMOs, and through raids (and fractals, and sometimes even dungeons still) slowly embracing the GW2 playstyle. Many of the people I have in mind would have had a much harder time getting into the game the way it was in the beginning.
But I have to admit I’ve always been a person that loves instanced group content, just not the grind necessary to get into it. That’s why I love GW2’s take on raids, even though I rarely have the time to get into one.
I’m not saying the game is evil for having raids. But I do think raids are bad for the game. I certainly don’t think they’re helping the game.
Vayne, I usually agree with a lot that you say, but I think you’re being just a tiny bit paranoid here. Of course there are people out there who run far away from anything associated with raids, but there are also a lot of people that can contribute to a healthy playerbase of this game that are attracted by the fact that raids are among the things this game offers, or helped getting into this game by having raids and dungeons like they are used to from previous games.
Personally, I’m as casual as they come. My days of active raiding are long past (in another MMO). Among my many friends in this game are people that haven’t set foot in a dungeon as well as those that thoroughly enjoy dungeons, fractals, and raids on a daily basis. Mostly though I see a lot of people enjoying the fact that you can do all kinds of different things in this game, and to many of them a raid here or there is an enrichment of their gaming experience. I’ve also met quite a few people coming from other games who have thoroughly converted to the “casual play as you like” style of GW2 by now but kind of needed the familiar surroundings of dungeons and raids to transition from traditional-style MMOs to this game.
In my opinion GW2 has lost none of the identity it has had for me for 4+ years. The features that make this game stand apart from other MMOs and that have quickly taken root in my preferences and spoilt me for other games out there are here and if anything more strongly now than they were back at the start.
Variety of content to play, and ease to jump in play a huge part for me. I don’t have to farm specific dungeons to get the current BiS gear to get into endgame (no matter if we’re talking raids, wvw, or whatever). I don’t have to farm the same questline with each character separately to unlock whatever achievement is needed to even access specific content. I don’t have to play content I don’t enjoy, because there’s always comparable rewards to be had in other content. It may not be the same rewards, they may be a bit less convenient to what I have in mind, but they’ll be there and enable me to enjoy whatever content I want to play nonetheless.
GW2 very much has a strong identity as a game that sets it apart from similar games. Not everything is done the way I’d dream of, but there’s always more fun things to do and to enjoy than I even have time to play. And I don’t see this changing anytime soon.
Even paranoids have enemies.
This game was, more or less, once really close to what I wanted in an MMO. It’s now less close to what I want and it’s moving further from that. But at least some people even in this thread do feel like the game is losing it’s identity. I was one of the people who said, early on in this thread, that I don’t think it is. That is I play HOT maps the same way I played core Tyria maps.
But more and more now, people are blasting through content faster to get to raids, which is what many consider to be traditional end game. It’s changed a lot of how at least new people to get the game respond to the game.
Sure there are some hold outs and throw backs. I’m just not 100% sure it will remain that way. The more prevalent raids are on forums and on reddit, on twitch and on youtube, the more likely people looking for the game will see raids as a thing. As someone else said no one is really streaming anything but raids now. That doesn’t mean most people raid, but how will people looking for stuff on twitch interpret that.
I’m not thinking this thing will happen right away, but I perceive a drift and there is no telling how far that drift will take us. And I do believe it has cost this company money and players. I can’t prove it. I simply believe it.
You see a lot of raids in the forum and reddit, because its hard content so there a lot to say and show about it. New strategies, low manning, new time records etc.
Just like when dungeons were harder and the only hard content in the game.
People dont make post about open world pve because there is nothing to talk about it, for example there is 0 strategy about doing tequal, its some people get to canon while other zerg the boss, thats it, its boring.
Nobody want to see a new open world Guardian build for example, because it doesnt matter as any build can do it easily.
So when content has a lot of depth ( raids ) there is a lot to talk and show about it.
And as I said and some other players, i’m a vet Guild Wars 1 player, and GW2 never been so closer to GW1 philosophy then now.
A game without grind, with challenge content to be overcome by player skill instead of gear grind.
Guild Wars 2 finally is back to the same track of Guild Wars 1 was and i loved.
It’s only normal the game would expand on options, I find these kinds of topic a bit silly tbh.
I’m not saying the game is evil for having raids. But I do think raids are bad for the game. I certainly don’t think they’re helping the game.
Snip
Personally, I’m as casual as they come. My days of active raiding are long past (in another MMO). Among my many friends in this game are people that haven’t set foot in a dungeon as well as those that thoroughly enjoy dungeons, fractals, and raids on a daily basis. Mostly though I see a lot of people enjoying the fact that you can do all kinds of different things in this game, and to many of them a raid here or there is an enrichment of their gaming experience. I’ve also met quite a few people coming from other games who have thoroughly converted to the “casual play as you like” style of GW2 by now but kind of needed the familiar surroundings of dungeons and raids to transition from traditional-style MMOs to this game.
In my opinion GW2 has lost none of the identity it has had for me for 4+ years. The features that make this game stand apart from other MMOs and that have quickly taken root in my preferences and spoilt me for other games out there are here and if anything more strongly now than they were back at the start.
Variety of content to play, and ease to jump in play a huge part for me. I don’t have to farm specific dungeons to get the current BiS gear to get into endgame (no matter if we’re talking raids, wvw, or whatever). I don’t have to farm the same questline with each character separately to unlock whatever achievement is needed to even access specific content. I don’t have to play content I don’t enjoy, because there’s always comparable rewards to be had in other content. It may not be the same rewards, they may be a bit less convenient to what I have in mind, but they’ll be there and enable me to enjoy whatever content I want to play nonetheless.
GW2 very much has a strong identity as a game that sets it apart from similar games. Not everything is done the way I’d dream of, but there’s always more fun things to do and to enjoy than I even have time to play. And I don’t see this changing anytime soon.
Even paranoids have enemies.
This game was, more or less, once really close to what I wanted in an MMO. It’s now less close to what I want and it’s moving further from that. But at least some people even in this thread do feel like the game is losing it’s identity. I was one of the people who said, early on in this thread, that I don’t think it is. That is I play HOT maps the same way I played core Tyria maps.
But more and more now, people are blasting through content faster to get to raids, which is what many consider to be traditional end game. It’s changed a lot of how at least new people to get the game respond to the game.
Sure there are some hold outs and throw backs. I’m just not 100% sure it will remain that way. The more prevalent raids are on forums and on reddit, on twitch and on youtube, the more likely people looking for the game will see raids as a thing. As someone else said no one is really streaming anything but raids now. That doesn’t mean most people raid, but how will people looking for stuff on twitch interpret that.
I’m not thinking this thing will happen right away, but I perceive a drift and there is no telling how far that drift will take us. And I do believe it has cost this company money and players. I can’t prove it. I simply believe it.
You see a lot of raids in the forum and reddit, because its hard content so there a lot to say and show about it. New strategies, low manning, new time records etc.
Just like when dungeons were harder and the only hard content in the game.
People dont make post about open world pve because there is nothing to talk about it, for example there is 0 strategy about doing tequal, its some people get to canon while other zerg the boss, thats it, its boring.Nobody want to see a new open world Guardian build for example, because it doesnt matter as any build can do it easily.
So when content has a lot of depth ( raids ) there is a lot to talk and show about it.
And as I said and some other players, i’m a vet Guild Wars 1 player, and GW2 never been so closer to GW1 philosophy then now.
A game without grind, with challenge content to be overcome by player skill instead of gear grind.
Guild Wars 2 finally is back to the same track of Guild Wars 1 was and i loved.
Everything you said is true. There are less posts about anything but hard core competitive content. That means there are less posts that are personally of value to me, and players like me.
So when people come looking for info on a game what does that do for people like me, looking for new people to play with?
Everything you said is true. There are less posts about anything but hard core competitive content. That means there are less posts that are personally of value to me, and players like me.
So when people come looking for info on a game what does that do for people like me, looking for new people to play with?
Here is the deal, how raids post are deleting the posts about things you like ?
If there wasnt post about it, there wouldnt still no posts about open world stuff. If people wanted to create topics about exploring Tyria, they would be doing it now, but things like this gets boring really fast.
So actually even for people that dont like raids, they come to forum or reddit and see a lot of activity, new videos about builds, discussion etc. And dont think “i dont want to play this game it seems kind of dead with very little posts goind around”
Everything you said is true. There are less posts about anything but hard core competitive content. That means there are less posts that are personally of value to me, and players like me.
But a lot of the Raid posts are not by the hard core competitive crowd, that means they are of less value to nearly everyone, especially when it’s the same cyclical discussion with the same arguments over and over.
Everything you said is true. There are less posts about anything but hard core competitive content. That means there are less posts that are personally of value to me, and players like me.
So when people come looking for info on a game what does that do for people like me, looking for new people to play with?
Here is the deal, how raids post are deleting the posts about things you like ?
If there wasnt post about it, there wouldnt still no posts about open world stuff. If people wanted to create topics about exploring Tyria, they would be doing it now, but things like this gets boring really fast.
So actually even for people that dont like raids, they come to forum or reddit and see a lot of activity, new videos about builds, discussion etc. And dont think “i dont want to play this game it seems kind of dead with very little posts goind around”
You obviously don’t know how reddit works. The posts don’t get deleted. They get downvoted. THe hard core guys look at posts, think I know this or I know taht and they downvote. Unless you’re looking at reddit 24/7, you’re going to miss stuff. The stuff that gets upvoted that stays on the first page is more about hard core stuff generally.
Even if you go to the new page, stuff gets downvoted pretty fast. People don’t really want fun discussions they want serious discussions. But of course if people downvote just to keep the stuff they’re interested in on the first page and those people are mostly hard core guys, then that’s what most people will see.
The official forums, in my opinion aren’t as good as reddit for a lot of reasons.
i came here to say, yes. can we close the thread now?
…
Base game wasn’t stripped.
Raids in other games were a primary focus point for endgame. If you didn’t do them then you’d be at a disadvantage. In GW2, players are not at a disadvantage for skipping raids. They miss out on legendary armor but there’s no stat difference from ascended.
Specific required gear being enforced is a result of players imposing it on themselves. It has nothing to do with Anet. Pretty much the exact same thing when people did CoF farms or just speed runs in dungeons.
You’re trying to make it as if GW2 has changed by adding a small amount of content geared towards those that wanted a challenge. If jumping puzzles didn’t exist until now, and they then added them, would you go about stating that Anet changed the game’s identity?
I don’t get what you’re trying to say when replying to my comment about a raid DLC. It looks like you regurgitated part of what I said without arguing against it. If so few players would be interested in it, and Anet added it for the few that were, it’s unlikely to change the game’s identity as it doesn’t impact the other players.
I have absolutely no idea what your point is in regards to raid accessibility. You lost me with your abilities that made absolute no sense.
Like I said above, gear is player imposed. Raids have been done in exotics. Raids have been done with everyone being a single class. Raids have been low-manned. Any restrictions on that regard is by the players who want efficient runs.
Could you rephrase some of your points for clarity as they come off as ranting and are difficult to follow. Thanks.
Im very glad to see that more people are starting to recognize and speak out on this issue – here, on reddit and on fan sites/other media. It’s important for Anet to see our displeasure with the direction of the game due to how they chose to implement raids.
Hopefully, upper management is paying attention.
For me, it comes back to the illusion of choice and accessibility. Thanks to the limited nature of raids, players are turning into carbon copies of one another. Fun experimental or flavor-based builds are pretty much a thing of the past. PS warriors, chronotanks, fresh air eles – that is the world of GW2 now.
And this leads to, imo, a bigger potential issue moving forward. As Anet plans the next expansion, are they creating new elite specializations based on fun, lore or theme based concepts – or are they primarily trying to fill holes in the raid meta? Even if it is a mix of the two, it’s easy to see how designing this way will water the game down and homogenize/stepford wife the game. Every player playing the exact same way in the exact same builds – all of which gradually lose what makes them unique and special.
Were already seeing it with the strange (and, for the most part, useless) addition of alacrity to the revenant with absolutely no lore or character based justification. Compare that to the energy and fun they exuded when they first introduced the chronomancer as a master of time manipulation (and how unique that would be) and it’s easy to see how raids are negatively affecting future game development (watering things down).
Add to this the issue of story accessibility – especially when they chose to revisit old lore that people would obviously find interesting – and the issue grows even worse.
The recent heavily raid-centric publicity, through youtubers like WP, media interviews and blog posts, sets a clear tone and makes it obvious they want to position raids as a major part of the end user experience – so this is an issue that needs to be addressed now rather than later.
Again, challenging content is fine. Pushing players as hard as they have toward meta or semi-meta builds in order to enjoy that content is not. Tiered difficulty fixes this – while retaining the challenging content (even giving them greater license to make it even more challenging in the future).
Players were carbon copies before raids. There were always meta builds that players followed. You’re blaming raids for something that it didn’t cause and existed before it. Outside of raids, you can use whatever builds you want for PvE. That still hasn’t changed in the last 4.5 years.
Raids can be cleared with non-meta builds. The only thing is that they’re not as efficient and leave less room for error. No matter what changes Anet makes, there will always be a meta build that is preferred. We had this with dungeons.
Players were carbon copies before raids. There were always meta builds that players followed. You’re blaming raids for something that it didn’t cause and existed before it. Outside of raids, you can use whatever builds you want for PvE. That still hasn’t changed in the last 4.5 years.
Raids can be cleared with non-meta builds. The only thing is that they’re not as efficient and leave less room for error. No matter what changes Anet makes, there will always be a meta build that is preferred. We had this with dungeons.
That was true among min-maxers, but not necessarily among the greater game population.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Tiered difficulty would bring back that wiggle room – restore the ability to enjoy content with a wider range of playstyles/builds/etc (all without taking away the challenge the min-maxers want) – similar to how fractal levels do so in that game mode.
Without that flexibility, the game will continue to grow more more restrictive and focused on carbon-copies – either by design or by player/community inclinations.
That isnt good for the game – and it definitely isn’t the game many of us bought and loved.
Players were carbon copies before raids. There were always meta builds that players followed. You’re blaming raids for something that it didn’t cause and existed before it. Outside of raids, you can use whatever builds you want for PvE. That still hasn’t changed in the last 4.5 years.
Raids can be cleared with non-meta builds. The only thing is that they’re not as efficient and leave less room for error. No matter what changes Anet makes, there will always be a meta build that is preferred. We had this with dungeons.
That was true among min-maxers, but not necessarily among the greater game population.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Tiered difficulty would bring back that wiggle room – restore the ability to enjoy content with a wider range of playstyles/builds/etc (all without taking away the challenge the min-maxers want) – similar to how fractal levels do so in that game mode.
Without that flexibility, the game will continue to grow more more restrictive and focused on carbon-copies – either by design or by player/community inclinations.
That isnt good for the game – and it definitely isn’t the game many of us bought and loved.
The game would only potentially grow that way within raids. It would not anywhere else in the game.
The game would only potentially grow that way within raids. It would not anywhere else in the game.
That is a weak argument. Basically, it’s saying that raids need to be a separate entity that in no way influences the rest of the game.
That isn’t really possible as long as there is any interesting story (even if it is secondary to the main plot) in raids that players want to experience.
That isn’t really possible as long as players (justifiably) want to experience all of the PVE content in the game without compromising playstyles they enjoy.
That isn’t really possible as long as developers feel a need to “balance” PVE professions around raid performance.
Raids will not and cannot exist separately from the rest of the game. They impact story, the experience, the community, the ongoing development, etc – and therefore have the potential to fundamentally change the nature of the game (to get back to the point of the thread).
As such, they need to better fit with the feel of the rest of the PVE experience – and the single best way to make that happen is tiered levels.
The game would only potentially grow that way within raids. It would not anywhere else in the game.
That is a weak argument. Basically, it’s saying that raids need to be a separate entity that in no way influences the rest of the game.
That isn’t really possible as long as there is any interesting story (even if it is secondary to the main plot) in raids that players want to experience.
That isn’t really possible as long as players (justifiably) want to experience all of the PVE content in the game without compromising playstyles they enjoy.
That isn’t really possible as long as developers feel a need to “balance” PVE professions around raid performance.
Raids will not and cannot exist separately from the rest of the game. They impact story, the experience, the community, the ongoing development, etc – and therefore have the potential to fundamentally change the nature of the game (to get back to the point of the thread).
As such, they need to better fit with the feel of the rest of the PVE experience – and the single best way to make that happen is tiered levels.
It’s not a weak argument because nowhere else in PvE requires specific builds.
It’s not a weak argument because nowhere else in PvE requires specific builds.
So, everyone else must be okay with their class being nerfed, or changed, or ignored, purely because of the raid balance? When same thing happened due to sPvP or WvW balance adjustments, a lot of people was upset, and rightfully so. But somehow, in case of raids it must be ok because “you don’t need your builds anyway!”? Lolwhat?
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
I know I just love seeing all those exp points flashing on the screen and my exp bar stuck on full and never moving. Raids didn’t need to affect PvE exp that way or even be included in that aspect of the game for that matter.
It’s not a weak argument because nowhere else in PvE requires specific builds.
So, everyone else must be okay with their class being nerfed, or changed, or ignored, purely because of the raid balance? When same thing happened due to sPvP or WvW balance adjustments, a lot of people was upset, and rightfully so. But somehow, in case of raids it must be ok because “you don’t need your builds anyway!”? Lolwhat?
What makes you think it’s because of raid balance? Regardless, this has nothing to do with restricting the builds that players can use outside of raids as nothing there requires specific builds.
Players were carbon copies before raids. There were always meta builds that players followed. You’re blaming raids for something that it didn’t cause and existed before it. Outside of raids, you can use whatever builds you want for PvE. That still hasn’t changed in the last 4.5 years.
Raids can be cleared with non-meta builds. The only thing is that they’re not as efficient and leave less room for error. No matter what changes Anet makes, there will always be a meta build that is preferred. We had this with dungeons.
That was true among min-maxers, but not necessarily among the greater game population.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Tiered difficulty would bring back that wiggle room – restore the ability to enjoy content with a wider range of playstyles/builds/etc (all without taking away the challenge the min-maxers want) – similar to how fractal levels do so in that game mode.
Without that flexibility, the game will continue to grow more more restrictive and focused on carbon-copies – either by design or by player/community inclinations.
That isnt good for the game – and it definitely isn’t the game many of us bought and loved.
This argument of builds being viable before raids come really often.
Why dont you link a build on gw2skills that work in dungeons but dont work in raids?
Guess what if it really dont work in raids it dont work in dungeons too, just because you dont die in a dungeon doesnt mean its a working build, doing 0 damage while bringing almost 0 support, its just way easier to carry someone on dungeons then in raids.
This argument of builds being viable before raids come really often.
Why dont you link a build on gw2skills that work in dungeons but dont work in raids?
Guess what if it really dont work in raids it dont work in dungeons too, just because you dont die in a dungeon doesnt mean its a working build, doing 0 damage while bringing almost 0 support, its just way easier to carry someone on dungeons then in raids.
There is a difference between viable and optimal.
Tiered difficulties in raids simply open the experience to a greater number of people – moving the game back to the more open environment we had prior to their introduction – all without taking away the hardcore experience players desire.
It isnt about how good your profession is. It is about how much fun the player/group they choose to play with has playing it (again, without detracting from the hardcore experience other players desire).
Different players enjoy the game in different ways. That is something Anet used to understand well.
You obviously don’t know how reddit works. The posts don’t get deleted. They get downvoted. THe hard core guys look at posts, think I know this or I know taht and they downvote. Unless you’re looking at reddit 24/7, you’re going to miss stuff. The stuff that gets upvoted that stays on the first page is more about hard core stuff generally.
Even if you go to the new page, stuff gets downvoted pretty fast. People don’t really want fun discussions they want serious discussions. But of course if people downvote just to keep the stuff they’re interested in on the first page and those people are mostly hard core guys, then that’s what most people will see.
The official forums, in my opinion aren’t as good as reddit for a lot of reasons.
How often do you visit reddit because from this response it doesn’t seem like it’s often. Front page posts are likely to rotate out daily because of all the other topics being posted and even then the MAJORITY of them are much less serious than you are making them out to be.
I’m gunna list out what is currently on the front page of reddit just for you.
- Fulff post about chuka and champawat IV and some dudes cats
- Fluff post about some guys revenant being a frog
- Fluff post about someone wanting to move the mithril ore node over in the home instance
- a post about the mass dc last night
- Fluff post about the dude in the well in Lake Doric
- Update to the Hearts and Minds instance
- A 6 MAN DEIMOS KILL
- Asuran fan art (which is lovely)
- A post literally discusing open world builds
- Upgrading to HoT
- Duels in WvW
- PSA about killing things too quickly in Solid Ocean fractal
- A post praising the Obsidian Sanctum JP
- Gem store post
- SAB hype
- Returning players questions
- PvP post about Mallyx rev
- WoodenPotatoes latest video
- 4 year anniversary about removing culling from WvW
- Necro solo fractal 97
- More Gemstore
- An interesting look into hackers
It must really suck having 1 post about raids and 1 post about fractals on the front page of reddit. It must seriously consume you to look at disgust as anyone that researches Guild Wars 2 sees the entire community talking about a variety of topics.
Stop spreading miss information about the game simply because you dislike a very small part of its content. That content being some of the best Gw2 has seen along with Nightmare 100cm. Having those few options for the veteran players keeps those players invested at no cost to any-other, unless you’d rather have the raid team working on gemstore skins…
To anyone else talking about restaurants there is obviously demand for a certain product and Anet is willing to cater to it. There is a reason it hasn’t been discontinued yet and I can guarantee it’s not because a vocal minority dislike raids. Anet has the numbers and they can decide whats best for their game and not a few people on their forums.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Rose-tinted glasses, anyone? Just like now, the vast majority of possible builds was absolutely useless in dungeons, when rated in objective terms. Yes, you could do stuff with a group of spirit weapon burn guards (Dub’s video was glorious, what was that build called?), but likewise you can now do raid stuff like Matthias with crazy builds if you actually want to. One hour kills have been done.
Essentially, nothing has changed at all since the old times of dungeons.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
TLDR; What makes GW2 different than any other generic MMO right now?
How would you convince a WoW player for example to come and play GW2 today?
WvW. GW2’s saving grace for 4½ years.
Actually, GW2’s front-and-center content is the living story, not raids.
Guild Wars 2 is built on four pillars of gameplay:
1. A fully-cooperative dynamic open world that encourages players to assist anyone they come across, and team up organically to overcome challenges. (It was NEVER intended to be an “Easy” game.)
2. Instanced content designed for players seeking difficult content in controlled, team-based environments. We started with Dungeons (They were NOT supposed to be easy), then we got Fractals as dungeons ran their course (Dungeons being tied to the open world and leveling probably hurt them), and now it’s taken to the next level with a few raids.
3. Highly-competitive, tightly-balanced E-sport PvP.
4. World Vs World – which is trying to be Massive Battles, Strategy, and Hostile Open World all at once.
What makes you think it’s because of raid balance? Regardless, this has nothing to do with restricting the builds that players can use outside of raids as nothing there requires specific builds.
Want examples? Burn warrior, zerk ele (multiple times), butchered rev natural resonance and mesmer alacrity. But no one outside of raids needs them anyway, I get it.
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
What makes you think it’s because of raid balance? Regardless, this has nothing to do with restricting the builds that players can use outside of raids as nothing there requires specific builds.
Want examples? Burn warrior, zerk ele (multiple times), butchered rev natural resonance and mesmer alacrity. But no one outside of raids needs them anyway, I get it.
All of those impacted other areas of the game too. The optimal builds for raids were quite often the optimal builds in other areas of the game. It’s easy to forget that and mistake them fixing an issue that was present in multiple areas and assume it was because of only one area.
All of those impacted other areas of the game too. The optimal builds for raids were quite often the optimal builds in other areas of the game. It’s easy to forget that and mistake them fixing an issue that was present in multiple areas and assume it was because of only one area.
Every build is impacting the game as long as it being played. This is not an excuse. Or maybe you are going to tell me that zerk ele was dominating spvp or wvw? Or 5 burn warriors conquered fractal meta charts?
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
All of those impacted other areas of the game too. The optimal builds for raids were quite often the optimal builds in other areas of the game. It’s easy to forget that and mistake them fixing an issue that was present in multiple areas and assume it was because of only one area.
Every build is impacting the game as long as it being played. This is not an excuse. Or maybe you are going to tell me that zerk ele was dominating spvp or wvw? Or 5 burn warriors conquered fractal meta charts?
This isn’t about PvP and WvW.
The amount of damage that burn warrior could do was very large. It was no surprise that it would get nerfed. That same build could be used in other areas of PvE outside of raids. In fact, burnzerker was created before raids released.
The optimal builds for raids were quite often the optimal builds in other areas of the game. It’s easy to forget that and mistake them fixing an issue that was present in multiple areas and assume it was because of only one area.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Players were carbon copies before raids. There were always meta builds that players followed. You’re blaming raids for something that it didn’t cause and existed before it. Outside of raids, you can use whatever builds you want for PvE. That still hasn’t changed in the last 4.5 years.
Raids can be cleared with non-meta builds. The only thing is that they’re not as efficient and leave less room for error. No matter what changes Anet makes, there will always be a meta build that is preferred. We had this with dungeons.
That was true among min-maxers, but not necessarily among the greater game population.
Your memory and mine of dungeon LFG’s are not the same. If anything, there was more restriction in dungeons because at least in raids the wanna-tanks and wanna-heals are given a nod.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Have you tried raids with anything goes? If not, why not? With dungeons, there always seemed to be an expectation by players who preferred off-meta builds that the groups advertising meta play should drop their requirements and take them. The same thing goes in raids. Why is the convenience of players who play as they want of greater value than the effort of players who started the group?
Tiered difficulty would bring back that wiggle room – restore the ability to enjoy content with a wider range of playstyles/builds/etc (all without taking away the challenge the min-maxers want) – similar to how fractal levels do so in that game mode.
ANet has designed easier raid encounters as a means to allow players who want to raid but feel barred from doing so by build constraints, difficulty or for other reasons. Have you tried any of the easier encounters?
Without that flexibility, the game will continue to grow more more restrictive and focused on carbon-copies – either by design or by player/community inclinations.
That isnt good for the game – and it definitely isn’t the game many of us bought and loved.
Responses above in italics.
The thing is, meta build considerations have always been a thing in MMO’s. The phrase cookie-cutter build goes way back. There were in fact more complaints about (lack of) build diversity in GW2 metas while dungeons were the hardest content.
You believe that somehow because raids are here that vast numbers of Play-As-I-Want players are going to feel the need to stick to meta builds? Why would someone who chose to pay no attention to them before raids suddenly feel the need to adhere to them now? That makes no sense. Players who go their own way will continue to do so. The copiers will continue to do so.
This isn’t about PvP and WvW.
The amount of damage that burn warrior could do was very large. It was no surprise that it would get nerfed. That same build could be used in other areas of PvE outside of raids. In fact, burnzerker was created before raids released.
The optimal builds for raids were quite often the optimal builds in other areas of the game. It’s easy to forget that and mistake them fixing an issue that was present in multiple areas and assume it was because of only one area.
Except it was not. It was only overpowered for large hitboxes, which was only meaningful in? Right.
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
This isn’t about PvP and WvW.
The amount of damage that burn warrior could do was very large. It was no surprise that it would get nerfed. That same build could be used in other areas of PvE outside of raids. In fact, burnzerker was created before raids released.
The optimal builds for raids were quite often the optimal builds in other areas of the game. It’s easy to forget that and mistake them fixing an issue that was present in multiple areas and assume it was because of only one area.
Except it was not. It was only overpowered for large hitboxes, which was only meaningful in? Right.
Also in long sustained fights. But let’s go ahead and assume that the build was only useful in raids. How was nerfing it affecting players outside of raids? If they never used it then how did it impact them?
This argument of builds being viable before raids come really often.
Why dont you link a build on gw2skills that work in dungeons but dont work in raids?
Guess what if it really dont work in raids it dont work in dungeons too, just because you dont die in a dungeon doesnt mean its a working build, doing 0 damage while bringing almost 0 support, its just way easier to carry someone on dungeons then in raids.There is a difference between viable and optimal.
There is also a difference between bad and viable. Viable builds work in raids. Bad builds not.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Also in long sustained fights. But let’s go ahead and assume that the build was only useful in raids. How was nerfing it affecting players outside of raids? If they never used it then how did it impact them?
Build had high damage in raids, not “was only useful in raids”.
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
Also in long sustained fights. But let’s go ahead and assume that the build was only useful in raids. How was nerfing it affecting players outside of raids? If they never used it then how did it impact them?
Build had high damage in raids, not “was only useful in raids”.
So “only meaningful in raids” does not equal “only useful in raids”?
Now we get players with severe memory issues saying that all builds were fine before Raids. Maybe you never touched an instance in the past? Or you only went with your guild and experimented because there is zero difference between pug dungeons and pug Raids.
Hint 1: there was build exclusion long before Raids. Rangers in particular should remember this VERY WELL and any Ranger who ever comes here and says they weren’t excluded from dungeons and fractals is a liar.
Hint 2: Raids have been cleared with multiple types of builds and compositions. There is no one comp working for everyone but there is good variety. Again, moot argument.
Hint 1: there was build exclusion long before Raids. Rangers in particular should remember this VERY WELL and any Ranger who ever comes here and says they weren’t excluded from dungeons and fractals is a liar.
Oh, I don’t need a ranger to remember that. And tbh, rangers were excluded for good reason. 99% were just bad, the infamous bearbows who would just pewpew with their longbow and kick mobs away in order to annoy anyone who was meleeing.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
Now we get players with severe memory issues saying that all builds were fine before Raids. Maybe you never touched an instance in the past? Or you only went with your guild and experimented because there is zero difference between pug dungeons and pug Raids.
Hint 1: there was build exclusion long before Raids. Rangers in particular should remember this VERY WELL and any Ranger who ever comes here and says they weren’t excluded from dungeons and fractals is a liar.
Hint 2: Raids have been cleared with multiple types of builds and compositions. There is no one comp working for everyone but there is good variety. Again, moot argument.
This was entirely player-determined, though. The same thing said about the zerk gear meta. People just wanted efficiency because the dungeons gave good gold and the content became stale and trivial. Most people didn’t do dungeons because they intrinsically thought they were fun (they did at launch/when new, but it gets boring). It was about cash money.
So arguing that just because there was elitism and a meta before and having it be a dev-side focus is not valid, because the justifications were totally different.
I never in my hundreds if not thousands of runs played an all-zerk group, and never got kicked for being a ranger, and neither have any rangers that I personally know.
Not joining the “10k AP zerk only no ranger” listings on LFG would have helped a lot to avoid being kicked. I always just made my own “all welcome” groups which typically filled in about thirty seconds. They weren’t speed clear runs, but I wouldn’t expect that having not been playing a meta build. But completion times were still typically quite good, give or take maybe three to five minutes over the all-zerk groups and so on.
The differentiation is that those who complained about the dungeon meta were misinformed, lazy, disrespectful to how other people wanted to play (without them) or just bad, and subsequently got kicked. In raids, the elitism is stemmed by the very nature of the content design itself.
Formal Thief Elite Spec proposal:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
Someone used an analogy of a restaurant which added a dish. This is more like a vegetarian restaurant that suddenly decided it’s no longer going to be a vegetarian restaurant. I mean it will continue to serve vegetarian stuff, but it’s going to increasinglyi put meat dishes on the menu.
Sorry, it’s nothing like that. You’re ascribing a morality to a raid-free game that is soiled by adding raids.
It’s fine to say you don’t like raids. It’s fine to say you’re guild doesn’t have the 15+ people interested enough to raid (since RL will prevent some from showing on any given night). It’s even fine to say you don’t think it will ultimately have a positive impact on the community.
But please don’t try to make the argument that raiding is somehow inherently wrong for ANet’s franchise.
It’s a design choice and like any design choice, it has positives and negatives; some will embrace it, some will turn away from it. That would have happened if GW2 hadn’t offered an expac or didn’t add raids; it just would have been a different subset embracing or turning away.
Raids affect the entire game like PvP affects the entire game. GW2 was created with PvP but not the “esports” attitude that Anet has tried to jam down our throats more recently.
it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol
Now we get players with severe memory issues saying that all builds were fine before Raids. Maybe you never touched an instance in the past? Or you only went with your guild and experimented because there is zero difference between pug dungeons and pug Raids.
Hint 1: there was build exclusion long before Raids. Rangers in particular should remember this VERY WELL and any Ranger who ever comes here and says they weren’t excluded from dungeons and fractals is a liar.
Hint 2: Raids have been cleared with multiple types of builds and compositions. There is no one comp working for everyone but there is good variety. Again, moot argument.
This was entirely player-determined, though. The same thing said about the zerk gear meta. People just wanted efficiency because the dungeons gave good gold and the content became stale and trivial. Most people didn’t do dungeons because they intrinsically thought they were fun (they did at launch/when new, but it gets boring). It was about cash money.
So arguing that just because there was elitism and a meta before and having it be a dev-side focus is not valid, because the justifications were totally different.
I never in my hundreds if not thousands of runs played an all-zerk group, and never got kicked for being a ranger, and neither have any rangers that I personally know.
Not joining the “10k AP zerk only no ranger” listings on LFG would have helped a lot to avoid being kicked. I always just made my own “all welcome” groups which typically filled in about thirty seconds. They weren’t speed clear runs, but I wouldn’t expect that having not been playing a meta build. But completion times were still typically quite good, give or take maybe three to five minutes over the all-zerk groups and so on.
The differentiation is that those who complained about the dungeon meta were misinformed, lazy, disrespectful to how other people wanted to play (without them) or just bad, and subsequently got kicked. In raids, the elitism is stemmed by the very nature of the content design itself.
Not really as raids are more mechanics driven than gear/build driven. Sure gear and builds are important but we’ve seen with these low-man runs, as well as those consisting of all of one class, that there’s is a decent degree of flexibility. It’s just that, like for speed running dungeons years ago, players want what’s the safest and most optimal. Just like years ago, those that do not want to conform to these standards can join a group that doesn’t stress them or create their own group.
Raids were designed and intended to be the most challenging content in the game for those interested in that. Instead of stepping up to the challenge, some players want it brought down to their level by means of an “easy mode”. Some use arguments such as the story, but to be honest, how many would do raids again after they’ve experienced the story? How many watch all of the cutscenes in the dungeons or even do the story modes?
It all comes down to loot. Those that do raids get something that those that don’t raid do not. I’m pretty sure that if legendary armor got moved to be acquired in other areas of the game, all of these threads running under the guise about how raids are ruining the game would go away.
GW2 was created with PvP but not the “esports” attitude that Anet has tried to jam down our throats more recently.
There is no “esports” attitude; it’s just marketing. PvP has always influenced skill balance because ANet kept trying to insist that they could offer 3 game modes using identical skills and traits.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Players were carbon copies before raids. There were always meta builds that players followed. You’re blaming raids for something that it didn’t cause and existed before it. Outside of raids, you can use whatever builds you want for PvE. That still hasn’t changed in the last 4.5 years.
Raids can be cleared with non-meta builds. The only thing is that they’re not as efficient and leave less room for error. No matter what changes Anet makes, there will always be a meta build that is preferred. We had this with dungeons.
That was true among min-maxers, but not necessarily among the greater game population.
Your memory and mine of dungeon LFG’s are not the same. If anything, there was more restriction in dungeons because at least in raids the wanna-tanks and wanna-heals are given a nod.
With dungeons, there was always much more wiggle room. Any build and playstyle was reasonably (very important word) viable, no matter how far from the meta. Players that chose not to min-max could still enjoy the content while retaining some unique character identity.
Have you tried raids with anything goes? If not, why not? With dungeons, there always seemed to be an expectation by players who preferred off-meta builds that the groups advertising meta play should drop their requirements and take them. The same thing goes in raids. Why is the convenience of players who play as they want of greater value than the effort of players who started the group?
Tiered difficulty would bring back that wiggle room – restore the ability to enjoy content with a wider range of playstyles/builds/etc (all without taking away the challenge the min-maxers want) – similar to how fractal levels do so in that game mode.
ANet has designed easier raid encounters as a means to allow players who want to raid but feel barred from doing so by build constraints, difficulty or for other reasons. Have you tried any of the easier encounters?
Without that flexibility, the game will continue to grow more more restrictive and focused on carbon-copies – either by design or by player/community inclinations.
That isnt good for the game – and it definitely isn’t the game many of us bought and loved.
Responses above in italics.
The thing is, meta build considerations have always been a thing in MMO’s. The phrase cookie-cutter build goes way back. There were in fact more complaints about (lack of) build diversity in GW2 metas while dungeons were the hardest content.
You believe that somehow because raids are here that vast numbers of Play-As-I-Want players are going to feel the need to stick to meta builds? Why would someone who chose to pay no attention to them before raids suddenly feel the need to adhere to them now? That makes no sense. Players who go their own way will continue to do so. The copiers will continue to do so.
Because those players are interested in getting the unique rewards that raids offer. And the only way to do so without finding a like minded group of Play-As-I-Want individuals is to conform to whatever profession and build out is the current raid meta and try to find a PUG that’ll accept them.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
(edited by Behellagh.1468)
I don’t mind raid, but I DO mind when raid had become the main focus and we only get other stuff every 2-3 months rather than a few weeks.
I also mind some mini/skins, or even stories were locked for raid.
Raid has not become the main focus. There are four raid wings since the start of HoT and there have been four episodes of the living world. Given that everything else in HoT/PvE was available at HoT’s launch and raids weren’t, given that there are also PvE festivals, new & revamped fractals, and current events and other things going, Raids are clearly not the major focus of releases. Take into account the fact that Raids also require far, far fewer resources, it should be clear that Raids get the smallest possible share of focus.
Every game mode has locked skins; I’m not sure why you think Raids shouldn’t get the same treatment.
One game mode should never have exclusive access to Legendary equipment.
Why?
why yes?
I don’t get all the QQ about raids being evil. Haven’t ever set a foot into them, but it does not feel like I’m missing something important with regard to the rest of the story.
As to the original question: no, it doesn’t feel as if GW2 had lost its identity.
This.
My favorite restaurant adding a new dish to their menu, while continuing to serve the dishes that are my reason for eating there, does not bother me. If I dont want to eat the new chicken dish I can continue to order my favorite steak dinner.
This isn’t a valid analogy. It indicates that there aren’t resource contentions over what’s being released. More comparable is that your favorite restaurant is busy and is thus adding more seats to cater to more customers
Except that there are not more customers (as far as we know)
while not increasing the waitstaff or number of cooks. This will negatively impact the experience of dining there. Or, to go with the menu example, is like if your favorite dish being moved to an occasional special since it’s not ordered often and the restaurant is out of room on the menu to fit it.
*Except that my favorite dish, open world content, is still the primary focus of the kitchen and is being released in large(ish) kittens on a frequent basis. Larger chunks in fact than was the case prior to raids. Raids have come along at a time when the content with which they compete has actually seen an increase in development. *
Raids are undeniably getting a lot of attention from developers not even in the raids team (like profession design and balance), and that’s a resource problem and a very big contention problem between formats which has led to a lot of mixed responses and negativity. You can do some numbers tweaks, but a lot of the issues people have complained about have been design-level and intention rather than numerical complaints.
Some responses in bold above.
Not really as raids are more mechanics driven than gear/build driven. Sure gear and builds are important but we’ve seen with these low-man runs, as well as those consisting of all of one class, that there’s is a decent degree of flexibility. It’s just that, like for speed running dungeons years ago, players want what’s the safest and most optimal. Just like years ago, those that do not want to conform to these standards can join a group that doesn’t stress them or create their own group.
Opening a PUG with flexible terms for a raid does not work at all. While for a dungeon thats usually more than enough. If you know the mechanics of raids well enough you definitely should know the difference between a dungeon and a raid. They are not on the same level, and just saying peole should simply open a group on their own terms is pretty much ignorant of that obvious difference.
They have similarities ofcourse, but those aren’t all encompassing of a players identification of the game. A raid is not a dungeon and both have very different “identities” and speak to very different groups of players.
Raids were designed and intended to be the most challenging content in the game for those interested in that. Instead of stepping up to the challenge, some players want it brought down to their level by means of an “easy mode”. Some use arguments such as the story, but to be honest, how many would do raids again after they’ve experienced the story? How many watch all of the cutscenes in the dungeons or even do the story modes?
Because alot of players just want more story to explore and play through. Be honest, how many players play through personal story or living world seasons more than once. Some people don’t want to repeat a possible easy mode/story mode of the raid endlessly. They just wanna fight some new bosses and use and deal with sme new tactics with a different teamsize. Just that experience alone is enough for some people. Missing out on that is enough to complain about for some people.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Not really as raids are more mechanics driven than gear/build driven. Sure gear and builds are important but we’ve seen with these low-man runs, as well as those consisting of all of one class, that there’s is a decent degree of flexibility. It’s just that, like for speed running dungeons years ago, players want what’s the safest and most optimal. Just like years ago, those that do not want to conform to these standards can join a group that doesn’t stress them or create their own group.
Opening a PUG with flexible terms for a raid does not work at all. While for a dungeon thats usually more than enough. If you know the mechanics of raids well enough you definitely should know the difference between a dungeon and a raid. They are not on the same level, and just saying peole should simply open a group on their own terms is pretty much ignorant of that obvious difference.
They have similarities ofcourse, but those aren’t all encompassing of a players identification of the game. A raid is not a dungeon and both have very different “identities” and speak to very different groups of players.
Raids were designed and intended to be the most challenging content in the game for those interested in that. Instead of stepping up to the challenge, some players want it brought down to their level by means of an “easy mode”. Some use arguments such as the story, but to be honest, how many would do raids again after they’ve experienced the story? How many watch all of the cutscenes in the dungeons or even do the story modes?
Because alot of players just want more story to explore and play through. Be honest, how many players play through personal story or living world seasons more than once. Some people don’t want to repeat a possible easy mode/story mode of the raid endlessly. They just wanna fight some new bosses and use and deal with sme new tactics with a different teamsize. Just that experience alone is enough for some people. Missing out on that is enough to complain about for some people.
People pug raids all the time. Players learn raids this way along with raids organized by someone to teach them. Just because raids happen to be more difficult than dungeons doesn’t mean that they cannot be pugged.
There’s really no more story to be gained that couldn’t be gotten from a cleared instance. So Anet’s raid team should go through the trouble of creating an easy mode that will only be done once. Seems like a waste of resources. If players want to fight bosses with new mechanics then lo and behold, look no further, we have that right now in the existing raids.