Guild Wars 2

Am I the only one craving some difficult solo content. Raids are a good start to adding difficult content in the game but not everyone can have a set schedule for raids and not everyone can spend 2 hours + per play session. My suggestion would be adding content similar to expeditions in Wildstar. If you don’t know what a expedition is, it was a mini solo dungeon you could buy and place on your housing plot which you can do for rewards or fun. Here is a video to one of the ones I really enjoyed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtKrADX79E

A suggestion I’d made in another thread was for the players to get a modicum of control over the game’s dynamic level adjustment feature.

If you want something more difficult, you can reduce your effective level in relation to the area. For dungeons/raids, the level could then be adjusted for everyone.

It’d be a game-wide addition that piggy-backs and expands on a system already in place.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

A suggestion I’d made in another thread was for the players to get a modicum of control over the game’s dynamic level adjustment feature.

If you want something more difficult, you can reduce your effective level in relation to the area. For dungeons/raids, the level could then be adjusted for everyone.

It’d be a game-wide addition that piggy-backs and expands on a system already in place.

~EW

IMO, I dont think that would make things more difficult. They need to fix the mechanics of the mobs if they want it to be more difficult. I can go on a lvl 10 and fight a lvl 50 mob and kill it. It won’t be difficult just time consuming.

Beast Sos.1457:

IMO, I dont think that would make things more difficult.

Your hits are weaker and you have a ton more glancing blows, you have less health and less stats, the mobs hit harder, and it takes longer to kill them… all requiring more maneuvering and better timing than normal. I think that qualifies as making things more difficult.

Beast Sos.1457:

They need to fix the mechanics of the mobs if they want it to be more difficult.

That is then a disservice to new players. Any change of this nature needs to be even-handed across the relative experience levels of the players in order not to inadvertently create a barrier to new players. That’s bad for business.

Beast Sos.1457:

I can go on a lvl 10 and fight a lvl 50 mob and kill it. It won’t be difficult just time consuming.

I call shenanigans. :P

~EW

Btw, have you tried playing the endgame content in green equipment? It would be a way to test if what I’m suggesting is worthwhile, or if you’re correct that it isn’t.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Beast Sos.1457:

IMO, I dont think that would make things more difficult.

Your hits are weaker and you have a ton more glancing blows, you have less health and less stats, the mobs hit harder, and it takes longer to kill them… all requiring more maneuvering and better timing than normal. I think that qualifies as making things more difficult.

Beast Sos.1457:

They need to fix the mechanics of the mobs if they want it to be more difficult.

That is then a disservice to new players. Any change of this nature needs to be even-handed across the relative experience levels of the players in order not to inadvertently create a barrier to new players. That’s bad for business.

Beast Sos.1457:

I can go on a lvl 10 and fight a lvl 50 mob and kill it. It won’t be difficult just time consuming.

I call shenanigans. :P

~EW

It makes it more difficult than it is but in general its not difficult. Of course there are some mobs that will be much harder than other just because you can’t avoid all there attacks. But most mobs you can just blind and/or reflect there attacks.

I’m not saying they should change it I’m just saying that that will be the best way to make the content more difficult.

Give me a lvl 10 thief with a sword and pistol and ill take out 90% of lvl 50 mobs. Sure there are some that are impossible unless I have reflects but most mobs are easy mode.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Btw, have you tried playing the endgame content in green equipment? It would be a way to test if what I’m suggesting is worthwhile, or if you’re correct that it isn’t.

~EW

I haven’t tried that but when HoT came out I made a rev put him in rare gear no runes no sigils and beat the HoT story pretty easily.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Your hits are weaker and you have a ton more glancing blows, you have less health and less stats, the mobs hit harder, and it takes longer to kill them… all requiring more maneuvering and better timing than normal. I think that qualifies as making things more difficult.

More difficult maybe, but not challenging. More like boring, just see how old level 80 fractals was, a really boring experience. Hit points and damage is the LEAST thing they can do for challenge, it’s actual mechanics that make things challenging, when foes have interesting defensive and offensive abilities

maddoctor.2738:

More difficult maybe, but not challenging. More like boring, just see how old level 80 fractals was, a really boring experience. Hit points and damage is the LEAST thing they can do for challenge, it’s actual mechanics that make things challenging, when foes have interesting defensive and offensive abilities

It’d mean that attacks you might otherwise soak/ignore, you can’t. You’d have to be more engaged in the fight… many mobs already have interesting skills/attacks, or at least they would be if they were dangerous. To me, souping them up would make their defensive and offensive abilities more interesting… and in this way it might be realistically doable from a direction not requiring reprogramming all the mobs… and again, game-wide. If that doesn’t do it for you, then luckily it’d also be optional.

Fight perfectly or be a splatter is not appealing to me. Likewise, neither is AA and go get a coke. Ymmv.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

maddoctor.2738:

More difficult maybe, but not challenging. More like boring, just see how old level 80 fractals was, a really boring experience. Hit points and damage is the LEAST thing they can do for challenge, it’s actual mechanics that make things challenging, when foes have interesting defensive and offensive abilities

It’d mean that attacks you might otherwise soak/ignore, you can’t. You’d have to be more engaged in the fight… many mobs already have interesting skills/attacks, or at least they would be if they were dangerous. To me, souping them up would make their defensive and offensive abilities more interesting… and in this way it might be realistically doable from a direction not requiring reprogramming all the mobs… and again, game-wide. If that doesn’t do it for you, then luckily it’d also be optional.

Fight perfectly or be a splatter is not appealing to me. Likewise, neither is AA and go get a coke. Ymmv.

~EW

No it won’t be more interesting. Hit points and damage do not equal a good fight, they make fights boring and un-interesting. It’s cool skills and mechanics that make a fight interesting and core tyria mobs lack anything interesting to begin with. They are just sacks of hp

GW2 already has a way of presenting this — challenge modes for Living Story.

However, I will note that there is a limit to how challenging they are willing to let this be. Most people will just invite their friends to help them.

maddoctor.2738:

No it won’t be more interesting. Hit points and damage do not equal a good fight, they make fights boring and un-interesting. It’s cool skills and mechanics that make a fight interesting and core tyria mobs lack anything interesting to begin with. They are just sacks of hp

You’re ignoring the point that many mobs already have more interesting skills/attacks if there were more reason to pay attention to them. Sorry you don’t see it that way.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

maddoctor.2738:

No it won’t be more interesting. Hit points and damage do not equal a good fight, they make fights boring and un-interesting. It’s cool skills and mechanics that make a fight interesting and core tyria mobs lack anything interesting to begin with. They are just sacks of hp

You’re ignoring the point that many mobs already have more interesting skills/attacks if there were more reason to pay attention to them. Sorry you don’t see it that way.

~EW

There is no such point when a mob has one or maybe two attacks worth considering anyway and absolutely no defensive abilities to speak of. No amount of extra hit points or damage will make them interesting.

ekarat.1085:

GW2 already has a way of presenting this — challenge modes for Living Story.

However, I will note that there is a limit to how challenging they are willing to let this be. Most people will just invite their friends to help them.

The LS has the worst re playability. All the cut scenes you can’t skip. No rewards after the fist time doing it and there was only 1 fight that was some what difficult which was the centaur when you fight as Caithe, and thats if you’re going for the achievement.

maddoctor.2738:

There is no such point when a mob has one or maybe two attacks worth considering anyway and absolutely no defensive abilities to speak of. No amount of extra hit points or damage will make them interesting.

First, to split a small hair ‘cause it’s the internet… at no point did I ever say the mobs would get more HP. I said by adjusting your level, YOU’d have less. Doing less damage might mean mobs have a relatively higher HP, true… but, it wouldn’t be much, and that’s a hair I need to split. It’s not like I ever suggested anyone give the mobs 3k-20k extra HP… ‘cause I agree that just extra HP makes combat a slog. We’re not in disagreement there… hence I never suggested it.

Second, higher damage does make them more interesting. That’s the core of damage-based combat. Even Dark Souls has generic mobs that only have “one or maybe two attacks worth considering,” but how absolutely deadly they are makes them interesting. People cranked up Skyrim to Master difficulty because the prospect of one or two hit kills made the mobs and combat challenging.

An enemy can be as flashy as a strobe light and have 20 different kinds of attacks, but if they’re not dangerous it doesn’t matter.

So my above suggestion gives you optional increased lethality, and thereby increases engagement, w/o placing a barrier to players who don’t want the difficulty increased. To me that’s still a win-win.

Maybe we just need to agree to disagree?

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

So my above suggestion gives you optional increased lethality, and thereby increases engagement, w/o placing a barrier to players who don’t want the difficulty increased. To me that’s still a win-win.

No it’s not a win-win. Those who want difficulty increased want difficulty increased as in extra mechanics, more complex defensive abilities and more complex offensive abilities. That’s where actual difficulty and challenge is coming from, the kind of difficulty increase you are talking about will only make the fights last longer

Guild Wars 1 had an excellent solution for the endgame.

/daretodream

Major Domo.9250:

Guild Wars 1 had an excellent solution for the endgame.

/daretodream

indeed….

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

It’s not like I ever suggested anyone give the mobs 3k-20k extra HP… ’cause I agree that just extra HP makes combat a slog.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

I said by adjusting your level, YOU’d have less. Doing less damage might mean mobs have a relatively higher HP, true

So combat is only a slog if mobs literally have a higher hp rather than only relatively? This part confused me. Can you clarify?

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Second, higher damage does make them more interesting.

I have to agree with maddoctor. Giving enemies greater damage doesn’t objectively make them interesting. It might to some, but it’s not a surefire win-win. The HOT modrem have higher damage than central tyrian critters but they’re such a bland, forgettable bunch. Just avoid orange circles, dodge if a target appears above your head, etc. I can’t say I even notice what attack they’re doing. Mostly they’re just speed bumps on the way to somewhere else. Except pocket raptors. They’re just so cute. And their damage isn’t as high as other jungle critters, so that’s something to consider in the damage = interesting argument.

I’d also like more challenge, but I have a different perspective on it. Rather than critter-challenge, I’d like more environmental challenge. Something like tombs or ziggurats or other structures filled with traps (and some critters) where creative thinking and some teamwork wins the day. Kind of like Tomb Raider but with other people. The traps and critters can be deadly (to satisfy your damage fetish) as long as they’re ingenious and hopefully fiendish. In HOT we have critters amped up to hard levels. Now we need something like Provernic Crypt amped up to hard.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Maybe we just need to agree to disagree?

Why? This discussion is interesting. Let’s keep going.

Major Domo.9250:

Guild Wars 1 had an excellent solution for the endgame.

/daretodream

double hp ,double cast time ,double move speed! /so hard!
it actually was easier then normal mode if you understood the mechanics xD

Have you tried soloing explorable dungeons?

The achievements from living story 2 can be quite hard (especially it’s all about time and most of the dragon ones though the dragon ones while tough are very fair) especially the avoid the sand throw and whirlpool one.

Major Domo.9250:

Guild Wars 1 had an excellent solution for the endgame.

/daretodream

Not likely to happen unfortunately. GW1 was more of a multiple game with towns that acted as lobbies rather than an MMO in the traditional sense. If they do that in this it will split the map population.

Beast Sos.1457:

Am I the only one craving some difficult solo content.

Yes, and when I do, I don’t play an MMO.

New, redesigned adventures that take you into smaller, instanced versions of already existing areas such as caves or similar, like PS works. The goal is to clear the place of enemies, defeat a boss or defend against waves of enemies.

• Bronze Level: Mobs are as they appear in open world. Boss monsters are Veterans and must be finished with a Stomp or they’ll eventually Revive.
• Silver Level: Mobs have increased aggro range, Veterans that need to be finished appear more frequently and enemies gain Enrage when their friendlies are killed. Boss monsters gain Defiance Bars.
• Gold Level: In addition to the above; Mobs have permanent, unstrippable Quickness and Alacrity, all Veterans gain Defiance bars and any Boss monster is now Elite Level.

Bronze Level awards a Box of Uncommon Gear or T4 Crafting Mats and Coin Daily, as well as 1 Mastery Point on first clear.
Silver Level awards a Box of Rare Gear or T5 Crafting Mats and Coin Daily, as well as 1 Mastery Point on first clear.
Gold Level awards a Box of Exotic Gear or T6 Crafting Mats and Coin Daily, as well as an Achievement worth 10 AP and Progress towards a Meta Achievement.

Meta Achievement would be getting Gold on all Challenges and rewards the Player with a Specific Title and Special interactive node in their Home Instance from which they can take on any of these Adventurers, rather than have to run around and chase down each Adventure on their respective maps.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

I said by adjusting your level, YOU’d have less. Doing less damage might mean mobs have a relatively higher HP, true

So combat is only a slog if mobs literally have a higher hp rather than only relatively? This part confused me. Can you clarify?

Sure, I’ll try. The way I’m thinking about it is that in lowering your effective level the amount of lesser damage you’ll do is already calculated by the dynamic level adjustment system in place. So I think the relative HP increase will be an incremental growth as you lower the level. This means it won’t be as noticeable, because the mob will also become more difficult to fight (dodging and positioning become much more important if you have to pay attention to everything the mob is doing). A mob with a large HP pool but not requiring much more attention is what makes it a slog… You’ll notice the HP boost because a boring fight is only padded out by HP. I think the Shadow Behemoth is a great example of this type of mob.

I agree that if the damage increase from mobs by lowering your level doesn’t wind up making the fight tougher, then the fight would remain boring and become longer from the relative hp adjustment. But, I think this would only be the case with the mobs that just have a single straight-forward attack. Most mobs in the higher level areas wouldn’t be this way.

I really hope that clarifies what I meant.

~EW

P.S. I’ll also reiterate that a way this can be tested cheaply by those who want more difficulty would be to don some green gear. Or even blue gear for the truly adventurous, lol. It would create a similar effect without having the devs reprogram anything. And, if it doesn’t work and I’m absolutely wrong in all this, they’d only be out a few silver.

TheSwede.9512:

Meta Achievement would be getting Gold on all Challenges and rewards the Player with a Specific Title and Special interactive node in their Home Instance from which they can take on any of these Adventurers, rather than have to run around and chase down each Adventure on their respective maps.

I like the idea of getting a node in my home instance to access an adventure – but having to get gold in all adventures to get it.. is probably too much. Maybe get access to any adventure from home once you get gold in that particular adventure?