Guild Wars 2

Megaservers suck, thanks for ruining farming.
I’ve yet to see one benefit of them.

GlowSticks.9734:

Megaservers suck, thanks for ruining farming.
I’ve yet to see one benefit of them.

Then you must not have levelled a character through events and the like after the first 4 months from release. As much as I hated the bots that were around for the first 3 months or so, once they were gone there was NO ONE doing events that were good for levelling.

Bloodtide Coast was one barren locale for probably over a year.

There are fourty-eight pages of arguments against the horrid megaserver.

They aren’t listening – nor caring.

We who paid for this game do not matter.

Megaservers killed this game for me. I hope everyone else likes them at least but 48 pages of this thread would indicate otherwise. The event timers use to be great for getting the most out of my time. Now, I’m lucky to get 1 or 2 events done if I have 30 mins to play but I do get the luxury of waiting around for them to start for most of that 30 minutes. No thanks, think I’ll pass. I can honestly say that my commitment to this game when from very active to almost non existent since the Megaservers came out. I pretty much do the new content and occasionally test the event system to see if its better these days and then Iog. I know this is probably just another wasted post to add to the pile but I figure I’ll do my part to help get it to 49 pages while I’m here:)

Trying to get 20+ people on the same overflow while also rushing to do the missions is a pain in the kitten .

Correct term would be “map copy”.

But yea, the kitten sorting doesn’t work…

What I think we need:

• Map copy selector (Same as GW1 District selection)
• Queue system (it was in GW2, but was removed on release of Megaserver)
• Reconnect feature (Same as GW1 Reconnect)

Just use teams of 4, with a dedicated taxier.

atheria.2837:

There are fourty-eight pages of arguments against the horrid megaserver.

They aren’t listening – nor caring.

We who paid for this game do not matter.

You are making a bunch of rather massive errors here.

1: Not everyone on those 48 pages dislike it.
2: Not everyone comes up with valid arguments and mainly just say that it sucks.
3: Mostly the same people keep writing over and over and over and over and over again in the thread, rather than new people coming into the thread.

lordkrall.7241:

atheria.2837:

There are fourty-eight pages of arguments against the horrid megaserver.

They aren’t listening – nor caring.

We who paid for this game do not matter.

You are making a bunch of rather massive errors here.

1: Not everyone on those 48 pages dislike it.
2: Not everyone comes up with valid arguments and mainly just say that it sucks.
3: Mostly the same people keep writing over and over and over and over and over again in the thread, rather than new people coming into the thread.

Lordkrall is correct. While I do believe the majority of this thread is against Megaservers, even if we removed the repeated posts from people like myself AND whiteknights like Lordkrall, I don’t have the energy to prove it. The only way to do so would be to sift through each page slowly and tally up each + and – post while keeping an eye out for multiple posts from the same individuals.

Considering just how massive this thread has become… I don’t know how anyone would have the time, energy, and patience to take on that task.
Or if it would even be worth it…
As I still believe this thread is just ArenaNet’s rug.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Just use teams of 4, with a dedicated taxier.

Exactly – it is not that hard to do.

lordkrall.7241:

You are making a bunch of rather massive errors here.

1: Not everyone on those 48 pages dislike it.
2: Not everyone comes up with valid arguments and mainly just say that it sucks.
3: Mostly the same people keep writing over and over and over and over and over again in the thread, rather than new people coming into the thread.

Most of the posters seem to be against megas, and the ones for megas basically just have one “pro” which is “Maps are no longer barren” which is a con to a lot of other players and not a problem before megas for a lot of servers. If you feel that most anti-mega people just say they suck then you clearly have not read this thread at all. There has been such a litany of complaints (which I won’t relist… you will have to actually read the thread this time) and countless suggestions of how things could be improved. Sure there are reposters, but there are more reposters on the pro-mega side than anti-mega.

yeah, you have to tetris everyone that wants to participate in, not a real or practical for that matter, solution for large guilds.

I have ran guild missions ranging from 20 to 70 people since the megaserver. Most of the time, the majority ended up on the same flow. So, the taxi-ing is minimum.

Yes, still, anet need to find a solution to minimize the inconvenience. Especially when not all new players understand what it means by megaserver. In fact, many new players don’t even know pve is megaserver.

SkyShroud.2865:

I have ran guild missions ranging from 20 to 70 people since the megaserver. Most of the time, the majority ended up on the same flow. So, the taxi-ing is minimum.

Yes, still, anet need to find a solution to minimize the inconvenience. Especially when not all new players understand what it means by megaserver. In fact, many new players don’t even know pve is megaserver.

Makes sense since it’s not explained in game and you still choose a server at the start, leading folks to assume it all works the same as any other game with a similar set up.

Substance E.4852:

SkyShroud.2865:

I have ran guild missions ranging from 20 to 70 people since the megaserver. Most of the time, the majority ended up on the same flow. So, the taxi-ing is minimum.

Yes, still, anet need to find a solution to minimize the inconvenience. Especially when not all new players understand what it means by megaserver. In fact, many new players don’t even know pve is megaserver.

Makes sense since it’s not explained in game and you still choose a server at the start, leading folks to assume it all works the same as any other game with a similar set up.

Why should they even care, i am in the same maps in the same server with my guildies, i expect to be able to play together, is not my place nor my interest to fix GW2 for Anet or circumvent their servers hardware limitations, which is all this really is, merging servers to cover for evaporating population.

Amethyst Rose.4367:

lordkrall.7241:

You are making a bunch of rather massive errors here.

1: Not everyone on those 48 pages dislike it.
2: Not everyone comes up with valid arguments and mainly just say that it sucks.
3: Mostly the same people keep writing over and over and over and over and over again in the thread, rather than new people coming into the thread.

Most of the posters seem to be against megas, and the ones for megas basically just have one “pro” which is “Maps are no longer barren” which is a con to a lot of other players and not a problem before megas for a lot of servers. If you feel that most anti-mega people just say they suck then you clearly have not read this thread at all. There has been such a litany of complaints (which I won’t relist… you will have to actually read the thread this time) and countless suggestions of how things could be improved. Sure there are reposters, but there are more reposters on the pro-mega side than anti-mega.

It’s not the only Pro.

One of the big things that ruined the Marionette fight for a lot of people was not being able to get onto their home servers. They had the big word overflow on their minimap. There were quite a few complaint threads about it. Being on your home server was seen as superior to being on an overflow, even if you had tons of people from your server on that overflow.

People felt disenfranchised by guesters. Not one or two people. A lot of people. That’s all gone now. You dont’ have everyone guesting to the three busiest servers all the time, because there’s no need to. It solves problems for people already playing on those servers.

Vayne.8563:

Amethyst Rose.4367:

lordkrall.7241:

You are making a bunch of rather massive errors here.

1: Not everyone on those 48 pages dislike it.
2: Not everyone comes up with valid arguments and mainly just say that it sucks.
3: Mostly the same people keep writing over and over and over and over and over again in the thread, rather than new people coming into the thread.

Most of the posters seem to be against megas, and the ones for megas basically just have one “pro” which is “Maps are no longer barren” which is a con to a lot of other players and not a problem before megas for a lot of servers. If you feel that most anti-mega people just say they suck then you clearly have not read this thread at all. There has been such a litany of complaints (which I won’t relist… you will have to actually read the thread this time) and countless suggestions of how things could be improved. Sure there are reposters, but there are more reposters on the pro-mega side than anti-mega.

It’s not the only Pro.

One of the big things that ruined the Marionette fight for a lot of people was not being able to get onto their home servers. They had the big word overflow on their minimap. There were quite a few complaint threads about it. Being on your home server was seen as superior to being on an overflow, even if you had tons of people from your server on that overflow.

People felt disenfranchised by guesters. Not one or two people. A lot of people. That’s all gone now. You dont’ have everyone guesting to the three busiest servers all the time, because there’s no need to. It solves problems for people already playing on those servers.

How is megaserver a solution to any of that? Now you’re always in an “overflow”. At least prior, there was a separation and you could feel a sense of server pride on success. There is a lot to be said for separating people into manageable numbers, over trying to toss a bunch of randoms into an organized group. Now, that is reserved for only the most dedicated guild groups that spend over an hour to setup, taxiing and organizing. Megaserver only convoluted the problems with prior overflows.

Guesting now does nothing, servers have no identity in PvE, so basically the pro here is what? People can still leach on “winning” shards accept now it’s not server based. Hardly a pro.

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

Amethyst Rose.4367:

lordkrall.7241:

You are making a bunch of rather massive errors here.

1: Not everyone on those 48 pages dislike it.
2: Not everyone comes up with valid arguments and mainly just say that it sucks.
3: Mostly the same people keep writing over and over and over and over and over again in the thread, rather than new people coming into the thread.

Most of the posters seem to be against megas, and the ones for megas basically just have one “pro” which is “Maps are no longer barren” which is a con to a lot of other players and not a problem before megas for a lot of servers. If you feel that most anti-mega people just say they suck then you clearly have not read this thread at all. There has been such a litany of complaints (which I won’t relist… you will have to actually read the thread this time) and countless suggestions of how things could be improved. Sure there are reposters, but there are more reposters on the pro-mega side than anti-mega.

It’s not the only Pro.

One of the big things that ruined the Marionette fight for a lot of people was not being able to get onto their home servers. They had the big word overflow on their minimap. There were quite a few complaint threads about it. Being on your home server was seen as superior to being on an overflow, even if you had tons of people from your server on that overflow.

People felt disenfranchised by guesters. Not one or two people. A lot of people. That’s all gone now. You dont’ have everyone guesting to the three busiest servers all the time, because there’s no need to. It solves problems for people already playing on those servers.

How is megaserver a solution to any of that? Now you’re always in an “overflow”. At least prior, there was a separation and you could feel a sense of server pride on success. There is a lot to be said for separating people into manageable numbers, over trying to toss a bunch of randoms into an organized group. Now, that is reserved for only the most dedicated guild groups that spend over an hour to setup, taxiing and organizing. Megaserver only convoluted the problems with prior overflows.

Guesting now does nothing, servers have no identity in PvE, so basically the pro here is what? People can still leach on “winning” shards accept now it’s not server based. Hardly a pro.

Yep, it’s absolutely a solution. Right now, no one can say they’re on their home server. No one knows how many people from their server are on their server. Which means everyone is basically on even footing in PvE.

That’s a solution for people who didn’t want to guest (there were some of those) and people who felt they owned their server and guesters were ruining it for them.

I’m much happier this way. I think it was a good move over all, because it creates less of kitten and them situation in PvE, which was happening more and more.

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s absolutely a solution. Right now, no one can say they’re on their home server. No one knows how many people from their server are on their server. Which means everyone is basically on even footing in PvE.

That’s a solution for people who didn’t want to guest (there were some of those) and people who felt they owned their server and guesters were ruining it for them.

I’m much happier this way. I think it was a good move over all, because it creates less of kitten and them situation in PvE, which was happening more and more.

How is taking the option away to be on a lower pop server, while still having the ability to go to a higher one when desired, a positive solution? Some people had issues with guesting on winning servers, so take everyone options away. Some solution. It’s not anymore even footing than before either, since you have very little control over what shard your placed in.

More complication and less convenience , i just don’t see that being a positive thing.

Sadly, this is probably the easiest way to fix these pros for people that think they are pros. Realistically, now scaling is even more of an issue for everyone, instead of just high pop servers, not much of a pro there either. It’s actually more frustrating for players that try to get event completion, but have a hard time doing it since 50 people are steam rolling the popular events, which is only compounded by the now, static schedule for world events.

While it does “fix” guesting, they could have also done that, with the existing “Join in” option in the party menu.

I’m glad you like it, but i still think your in the minority. It may work better for solo veteran players, but it mostly complicates, frustrates and inconveniences almost everyone else.

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s absolutely a solution. Right now, no one can say they’re on their home server. No one knows how many people from their server are on their server. Which means everyone is basically on even footing in PvE.

That’s a solution for people who didn’t want to guest (there were some of those) and people who felt they owned their server and guesters were ruining it for them.

I’m much happier this way. I think it was a good move over all, because it creates less of kitten and them situation in PvE, which was happening more and more.

How is taking the option away to be on a lower pop server, while still having the ability to go to a higher one when desired, a positive solution? Some people had issues with guesting on winning servers, so take everyone options away. Some solution. It’s not anymore even footing than before either, since you have very little control over what shard your placed in.

More complication and less convenience , i just don’t see that being a positive thing.

Sadly, this is probably the easiest way to fix these pros for people that think they are pros. Realistically, now scaling is even more of an issue for everyone, instead of just high pop servers, not much of a pro there either. It’s actually more frustrating for players that try to get event completion, but have a hard time doing it since 50 people are steam rolling the popular events, which is only compounded by the now, static schedule for world events.

While it does “fix” guesting, they could have also done that, with the existing “Join in” option in the party menu.

I’m glad you like it, but i still think your in the minority. It may work better for solo veteran players, but it mostly complicates, frustrates and inconveniences almost everyone else.

Scaling isn’t something people want? I find that a bit strange, considering many events when they scale provide champs which people seem to want. Are you suggesting less people want to fight champs? I find that hard to believe.

People in MMOs particularly seem to like seeing other people around. It’s a validation for many of them. Do you know what kills MMOs faster than anything? Not seeing people. You don’t see people and you go around saying oh, there’s no one playing. That’s what kills lots of MMOs.

How many people have you seen post on something like reddit or here, saying I’m thinking of coming back but are people still playing.

Keeping in mind that only the most populated events have the kinds of problems you’re talking about anyway, I’d say it’s mostly win.

But yes, I do believe more people would rather see an event scaled up than not.

I really want a blocking function in this forum to prevent myself from permaban when I see a Vayne post.

After months, I finally find myself in a Lion’s Arch where majority were Desolation players. Then, game kicked me out the login screen and when I returned, I was with French/Germans. Thanks for the hilarious fix.

Also, this game needs scaling with a better thought. “More people = More hp” is just a time sink.

Phoenixlin.8624:

I really want a blocking function in this forum to prevent myself from permaban when I see a Vayne post.

After months, I finally find myself in a Lion’s Arch where majority were Desolation players. Then, game kicked me out the login screen and when I returned, I was with French/Germans. Thanks for the hilarious fix.

It’s okay mate, I feel the same about your posts. However, I’m not talking about Eu. I really can’t since I’m on an American server. So I’m only qualified to talk about my experiences on US servers.

I’m sure Europe has very legit gripes against the megaserver.

What i was saying is the majority don’t scale well at all. Besides once people find event that actually scales to champ spawns, anet nerfs it to vet status so they don’t drop the bags, leaving those vets as the same DPS sponge while not rewarding as well. That’s always a bonus.

There are actually people that enjoy being challenged and pick lower pop servers once they find out how trivial events become with 50+ players chewing through them. Now, they don’t have that option.

GW was a game that didn’t get destroyed by less people being around. But, i can agree with what you’re saying. Regardless of that, this solution was pretty game destroying for a good number of people that really wanted a community and a sense of server pride. Something which now can only exist in WvW, a game mode all about servers, completely stripped away from the rest of the game. Some pro…

munkiman.3068:

What i was saying is the majority don’t scale well at all. Besides once people find event that actually scales to champ spawns, anet nerfs it to vet status so they don’t drop the bags, leaving those vets as the same DPS sponge while not rewarding as well. That’s always a bonus.

There are actually people that enjoy being challenged and pick lower pop servers once they find out how trivial events become with 50+ players chewing through them. Now, they don’t have that option.

GW was a game that didn’t get destroyed by less people being around. But, i can agree with what you’re saying. Regardless of that, this solution was pretty game destroying for a good number of people that really wanted a community and a sense of server pride. Something which now can only exist in WvW, a game mode all about servers, completely stripped away from the rest of the game. Some pro…

Sure there are always people who enjoy being challenged but do you really think those people are some kind of majority…because I sure don’t.

I also think about it from the other point of view. I used to do events in the open world in zones that didn’t have a lot of people. Some of those events were really really annoying. Protecting 4 houses from krait before they destroyed them. 1 person would have had a tough time doing that. Even a couple of people. Not enjoyable to me at all.

Some of the events where you had a couple of centaurs come in and you then wait for the next couple of centaurs. Those events were meh..until you had a group and you had a steady stream of centaurs coming in. The event was much better with more people. It wasn’t harder alone…it was just more boring.

Even without champs, far more chances at getting a drop because you’re tagging far more mobs. You can’t really expect me to believe most people want less rewards…that they’re happy with the rewards from just the event itself.

More bags means more mats. More mats means more money. I’m pretty sure most people want more money in this game.

I personally like opening the bags with linen and stuff, or salvaging drops for hard wood, soft wood, iron…anything really. Even copper is useful.

Doing events on servers now provides more money than they did on slower servers. I’d say most people are happy about that bit.

That is an interesting take:

Making things harder, or perhaps even impossible, is a solution to complaints or concerns that something is too hard (such as being able to play with your server community.

I guess that making Teq completely immune to all harm, or reducing the event timer to perhaps 1 minute, would be solutions to complaints that his event was too hard*.

Making money in GW2 is too hard*? Solution: reduce drops by 99%.

*I’m not saying that I agree with these complaints, merely pointing out the silliness of making something harder as a solution to something that people have complained is already too hard.

Then again, I think that the megaserver, for me at least, is a net improvement. It created, or at least exacerbated, some problems, but I think that most of those can be addressed over time. In theory MS is great (IMO) but needs some work.

Truth be told, no matter which side of this issue you’re on, nobody can say for certain whether more people love the MegaServer, or more people hate it.

Different people like different things. Some people prefer a larger server population, and others prefer a smaller server population. Towards that end, we were allowed to choose a server during account creation based solely upon the criteria of population density. So obviously ANet recognizes that different folks have different preferences along those lines. People could belong to a community that was as packed or desolate as they wanted.

Along came the Megaserver, and now everyone is forced into a super-high population area. Our personal preference has been stripped away. And there seems to be a stance against going back to personal choice (but you can never tell, since ANet is mum these days).

What they need to do is revert to the old multi-server system, and give FREE server transfers every so often, so that people can gravitate towards a population size that they are comfortable with. And perhaps even unlimited Guesting as well. The point is, we should be able to go where we want to, and play where we want to. (Much like the suggestion that GW2 adapt a GW1-like Districting system).

Wouldn’t that make everyone happy again? Let us play where WE decide to play, but give us the freedom to change our minds every now and then? It beats the heck out of locking us all into the same cell.

Vayne.8563:

munkiman.3068:

What i was saying is the majority don’t scale well at all. Besides once people find event that actually scales to champ spawns, anet nerfs it to vet status so they don’t drop the bags, leaving those vets as the same DPS sponge while not rewarding as well. That’s always a bonus.

There are actually people that enjoy being challenged and pick lower pop servers once they find out how trivial events become with 50+ players chewing through them. Now, they don’t have that option.

GW was a game that didn’t get destroyed by less people being around. But, i can agree with what you’re saying. Regardless of that, this solution was pretty game destroying for a good number of people that really wanted a community and a sense of server pride. Something which now can only exist in WvW, a game mode all about servers, completely stripped away from the rest of the game. Some pro…

Sure there are always people who enjoy being challenged but do you really think those people are some kind of majority…because I sure don’t.

I also think about it from the other point of view. I used to do events in the open world in zones that didn’t have a lot of people. Some of those events were really really annoying. Protecting 4 houses from krait before they destroyed them. 1 person would have had a tough time doing that. Even a couple of people. Not enjoyable to me at all.

Some of the events where you had a couple of centaurs come in and you then wait for the next couple of centaurs. Those events were meh..until you had a group and you had a steady stream of centaurs coming in. The event was much better with more people. It wasn’t harder alone…it was just more boring.

Even without champs, far more chances at getting a drop because you’re tagging far more mobs. You can’t really expect me to believe most people want less rewards…that they’re happy with the rewards from just the event itself.

More bags means more mats. More mats means more money. I’m pretty sure most people want more money in this game.

I personally like opening the bags with linen and stuff, or salvaging drops for hard wood, soft wood, iron…anything really. Even copper is useful.

Doing events on servers now provides more money than they did on slower servers. I’d say most people are happy about that bit.

It’s not that the majority enjoys being challenged or that content needs to be harder. It’s that the majority of events are trivialized (read boring) and that unless you’re running in full zerkers, tagging, you’re not going to get much from these events.

I’m not sure what game you’re playing, but most events don’t add mobs, they add hp to the current set of mobs and maybe increase their damage output slightly. People don’t get more loot when you toss more people at these events. Fix the events is the solution to boring and/or frustrating events, but that’s a much bigger issue and one that certainly is more pronounced tossing more players at them.

Most events are really not fun and certainly not anymore rewarding to me.

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

munkiman.3068:

What i was saying is the majority don’t scale well at all. Besides once people find event that actually scales to champ spawns, anet nerfs it to vet status so they don’t drop the bags, leaving those vets as the same DPS sponge while not rewarding as well. That’s always a bonus.

There are actually people that enjoy being challenged and pick lower pop servers once they find out how trivial events become with 50+ players chewing through them. Now, they don’t have that option.

GW was a game that didn’t get destroyed by less people being around. But, i can agree with what you’re saying. Regardless of that, this solution was pretty game destroying for a good number of people that really wanted a community and a sense of server pride. Something which now can only exist in WvW, a game mode all about servers, completely stripped away from the rest of the game. Some pro…

Sure there are always people who enjoy being challenged but do you really think those people are some kind of majority…because I sure don’t.

I also think about it from the other point of view. I used to do events in the open world in zones that didn’t have a lot of people. Some of those events were really really annoying. Protecting 4 houses from krait before they destroyed them. 1 person would have had a tough time doing that. Even a couple of people. Not enjoyable to me at all.

Some of the events where you had a couple of centaurs come in and you then wait for the next couple of centaurs. Those events were meh..until you had a group and you had a steady stream of centaurs coming in. The event was much better with more people. It wasn’t harder alone…it was just more boring.

Even without champs, far more chances at getting a drop because you’re tagging far more mobs. You can’t really expect me to believe most people want less rewards…that they’re happy with the rewards from just the event itself.

More bags means more mats. More mats means more money. I’m pretty sure most people want more money in this game.

I personally like opening the bags with linen and stuff, or salvaging drops for hard wood, soft wood, iron…anything really. Even copper is useful.

Doing events on servers now provides more money than they did on slower servers. I’d say most people are happy about that bit.

It’s not that the majority enjoys being challenged or that content needs to be harder. It’s that the majority of events are trivialized (read boring) and that unless you’re running in full zerkers, tagging, you’re not going to get much from these events.

I’m not sure what game you’re playing, but most events don’t add mobs, they add hp to the current set of mobs and maybe increase their damage output slightly. People don’t get more loot when you toss more people at these events. Fix the events is the solution to boring and/or frustrating events, but that’s a much bigger issue and one that certainly is more pronounced tossing more players at them.

Most events are really not fun and certainly not anymore rewarding to me.

I’m playing the non meta events. Like yesterday when I was playing in Sparkfly Fen, just doing events. Risen attack Hylek villages that sort of thing. That’s what I was doing yesterday. I get far more bags from those guys than I did in the old days. Some of those bags contain linen. Some of the weapons or armor that drop has platinum or hard wood when you salvage it. It’s definitely more profitable when I used to be.

This game is such a lonely experience right now. Noone talking in map chat. No roleplay, nothing.

Only thing we get on EU at least is German, Russian and Polish guilds advertising for members in chat. US there isn’t even that.

I completed Gendarren Fields yesterday on a character I am levelling to experience this new BS traits system. Not once after ressing someone or helping them/being helped did I see a ‘ty’ or ‘great job’. 3 hours of no interaction at all.

The game may not be ‘dead’, but the community is certainly dying.

There’s definitely been a shift in MMOs over the years. Server communities were on the way out as soon as WoW introduced dungeon finders that were cross server. Smaller games still have them, but in any game you can openly guest in, there are probably fewer and fewer people who remember the old days.

Today, in my opinion., most socializing is done within guilds. I socialize in mine all the time. The mega server doesn’t affect that.

If my statement is correct (and it’s probably not for RPers at least), then you’d be more satisified with the megaserver. I get most of my interaction from my guild.

But I still see plenty of people saying ty in chat for being rezzed, at least on the US servers. And map chat happens a lot more now than it did before the mega server in a lot of zones.

Phoenixlin.8624:

I really want a blocking function in this forum to prevent myself from permaban when I see a Vayne post.

Agreed. Wish there was a blocking function for the forums. Like in game it wouldn’t stop a poster from speaking but it would mean those that choose to don’t have to see the posts.

I was all set to write a response to the mega-server issue and then Hamfast wrote their post which summed up most of my feelings on the matter:

Hamfast.8719:

What they need to do is revert to the old multi-server system, and give FREE server transfers every so often, so that people can gravitate towards a population size that they are comfortable with. And perhaps even unlimited Guesting as well. The point is, we should be able to go where we want to, and play where we want to. (Much like the suggestion that GW2 adapt a GW1-like Districting system).

Wouldn’t that make everyone happy again? Let us play where WE decide to play, but give us the freedom to change our minds every now and then? It beats the heck out of locking us all into the same cell.

I miss, I really miss, playing on a map and knowing that I share it with others from Piken Square. While I can go to WvW and know that I’m only with others from my server (and my goodness you can tell the difference in map chat) the WvW experience is generally pretty focussed with little time to just relax and chew the fat with other people on the map. I want to get that “Piken Square Experience” in PvE back … even our cities are mega-servers … what? How is that an improvement?

I agree with Hamfast, give us the choice of where to play; let those folks chasing champ-bags and scaled events play on mega-servers, let those who want a less frantic style of play play locally.

Freedom is being taken out of the game in one way or another all the time. The April 15 update was a huge step in that direction. Before that, the game felt balanced between sandbox and themepark MMO concept. With dynamic events reaching through half of a map (like harathi hinterlands) to culminate in an epic finale, with temples in orr having effects through other maps, with a sense of stable community (like the one built by 1,5 years of Roleplaying), it was close to sandbox, despite the fact that it was built on pre-made and looping ingame events that is a thing of themepark nature.

After the patch, pretty much all of the sandbox aspects were taken away. Its a 100% themepark game now. Players go to where the action is, when and where Anet opens a ride (schedule of world events). To make matters worse, once you enter the themepark (login the game), you can barely effect which reality (map copy) of the same themepark you go into. It is decided for you by some cold and flawed algorythm by information you cannot even begin to guess (statistical analysis on your playing preferences, number of players on other, constantly changing shards).

Seriously, if i would actually care at this point, i would be a conspiracy-theorist preaching how the game tries to condition us for enslavement via peaceful indoctrination.

Except for the freedom of people who live in like, I don’t know, Oceanic countries to find other people to play with in the open world at the hours they play. Because before the April 15th patch, I stopped playing my prime time altogether, because there was no reason to play. Why wander the zones alone? Didn’t matter what server you were on splitting up everyone made it a poor MMO to play…certainly for me. I don’t play MMOs to solo.

And while there were occasionally people to be seen even though I don’t play MMOs to occasionally see people. It’s all well and good if you live in the US, but not so good for Australia, New Zealand anyone who plays from Asia.

We have more freedom now. So do people in the US who work weird hours or are awake weird hours.

People on different servers used to have to guest to get stuff done and complained about it. What about their freedom?

Freedom is a funny word. Everyone assumes because changes were made that takes away their choices, it means that everyone has less freedom. Well some of us have more freedom.

Vayne.8563:

Except for the freedom of people who live in like, I don’t know, Oceanic countries to find other people to play with in the open world at the hours they play. Because before the April 15th patch, I stopped playing my prime time altogether, because there was no reason to play. Why wander the zones alone? Didn’t matter what server you were on splitting up everyone made it a poor MMO to play…certainly for me. I don’t play MMOs to solo.

And while there were occasionally people to be seen even though I don’t play MMOs to occasionally see people. It’s all well and good if you live in the US, but not so good for Australia, New Zealand anyone who plays from Asia.

We have more freedom now. So do people in the US who work weird hours or are awake weird hours.

People on different servers used to have to guest to get stuff done and complained about it. What about their freedom?

Freedom is a funny word. Everyone assumes because changes were made that takes away their choices, it means that everyone has less freedom. Well some of us have more freedom.

what your are essentially saying is other peoples freedoms, are less important than your enjoyment.
Your freedom wasnt being taken away, your enjoyment was.

Thats the distinction. Now, i am not against you getting your enjoyment, but they probably needed a more complex system in place in order to not have your enjoyment and another players freedom/dynamic world/etc become opposing forces.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Except for the freedom of people who live in like, I don’t know, Oceanic countries to find other people to play with in the open world at the hours they play. Because before the April 15th patch, I stopped playing my prime time altogether, because there was no reason to play. Why wander the zones alone? Didn’t matter what server you were on splitting up everyone made it a poor MMO to play…certainly for me. I don’t play MMOs to solo.

And while there were occasionally people to be seen even though I don’t play MMOs to occasionally see people. It’s all well and good if you live in the US, but not so good for Australia, New Zealand anyone who plays from Asia.

We have more freedom now. So do people in the US who work weird hours or are awake weird hours.

People on different servers used to have to guest to get stuff done and complained about it. What about their freedom?

Freedom is a funny word. Everyone assumes because changes were made that takes away their choices, it means that everyone has less freedom. Well some of us have more freedom.

what your are essentially saying is other peoples freedoms, are less important than your enjoyment.
Your freedom wasnt being taken away, your enjoyment was.

Thats the distinction. Now, i am not against you getting your enjoyment, but they probably needed a more complex system in place in order to not have your enjoyment and another players freedom/dynamic world/etc become opposing forces.

Actually no. If you wanted to find people to do specific stuff you had to guest. And guesting at certain hours made no difference.

And I’m not saying that my enjoyment is more important than anyone else’s. I truly believe more people were aided by the mega server than hurt by it. There are plenty of things in this game that don’t really match my play style, but I know I have my own play style and I don’t expect anything just for me.

However, if the majority benefits even if some lose some freedom, it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I think the majority has benefited in this case. I think the people complaining are by far a minority, at least in the US. Again I won’t talk for Europe.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Except for the freedom of people who live in like, I don’t know, Oceanic countries to find other people to play with in the open world at the hours they play. Because before the April 15th patch, I stopped playing my prime time altogether, because there was no reason to play. Why wander the zones alone? Didn’t matter what server you were on splitting up everyone made it a poor MMO to play…certainly for me. I don’t play MMOs to solo.

And while there were occasionally people to be seen even though I don’t play MMOs to occasionally see people. It’s all well and good if you live in the US, but not so good for Australia, New Zealand anyone who plays from Asia.

We have more freedom now. So do people in the US who work weird hours or are awake weird hours.

People on different servers used to have to guest to get stuff done and complained about it. What about their freedom?

Freedom is a funny word. Everyone assumes because changes were made that takes away their choices, it means that everyone has less freedom. Well some of us have more freedom.

what your are essentially saying is other peoples freedoms, are less important than your enjoyment.
Your freedom wasnt being taken away, your enjoyment was.

Thats the distinction. Now, i am not against you getting your enjoyment, but they probably needed a more complex system in place in order to not have your enjoyment and another players freedom/dynamic world/etc become opposing forces.

Actually no. If you wanted to find people to do specific stuff you had to guest. And guesting at certain hours made no difference.

And I’m not saying that my enjoyment is more important than anyone else’s. I truly believe more people were aided by the mega server than hurt by it. There are plenty of things in this game that don’t really match my play style, but I know I have my own play style and I don’t expect anything just for me.

However, if the majority benefits even if some lose some freedom, it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I think the majority has benefited in this case. I think the people complaining are by far a minority, at least in the US. Again I won’t talk for Europe.

i have said this in other threads, but constantly appealing to the majority is a dangerous strategy, over time it creates more losses. Its a mathematical reduction, even when it is a high %

say you start with 1000 people
i do something that alienates 40% for the good of the 60% i now have 600 customers

for my next change i do something that alienates 25% and appeals to 75% i now have 450 customers

i do something which alienates 20% of my customer base for the good of 80%, i now have 360 customers.

and this is how you come up losing. you need to appeal to different markets, and look beyond your current playerbase, or maximize and dont drop your playerbase. And you cant do that by continously only looking at the majority.

you would lose less people from your initial pool of people interested by appealing to them all somewhat, than you lose by appealing to the majority over time.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Except for the freedom of people who live in like, I don’t know, Oceanic countries to find other people to play with in the open world at the hours they play. Because before the April 15th patch, I stopped playing my prime time altogether, because there was no reason to play. Why wander the zones alone? Didn’t matter what server you were on splitting up everyone made it a poor MMO to play…certainly for me. I don’t play MMOs to solo.

And while there were occasionally people to be seen even though I don’t play MMOs to occasionally see people. It’s all well and good if you live in the US, but not so good for Australia, New Zealand anyone who plays from Asia.

We have more freedom now. So do people in the US who work weird hours or are awake weird hours.

People on different servers used to have to guest to get stuff done and complained about it. What about their freedom?

Freedom is a funny word. Everyone assumes because changes were made that takes away their choices, it means that everyone has less freedom. Well some of us have more freedom.

what your are essentially saying is other peoples freedoms, are less important than your enjoyment.
Your freedom wasnt being taken away, your enjoyment was.

Thats the distinction. Now, i am not against you getting your enjoyment, but they probably needed a more complex system in place in order to not have your enjoyment and another players freedom/dynamic world/etc become opposing forces.

Actually no. If you wanted to find people to do specific stuff you had to guest. And guesting at certain hours made no difference.

And I’m not saying that my enjoyment is more important than anyone else’s. I truly believe more people were aided by the mega server than hurt by it. There are plenty of things in this game that don’t really match my play style, but I know I have my own play style and I don’t expect anything just for me.

However, if the majority benefits even if some lose some freedom, it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I think the majority has benefited in this case. I think the people complaining are by far a minority, at least in the US. Again I won’t talk for Europe.

i have said this in other threads, but constantly appealing to the majority is a dangerous strategy, over time it creates more losses. Its a mathematical reduction, even when it is a high %

say you start with 1000 people
i do something that alienates 40% for the good of the 60% i now have 600 customers

for my next change i do something that alienates 25% and appeals to 75% i now have 450 customers

i do something which alienates 20% of my customer base for the good of 80%, i now have 360 customers.

and this is how you come up losing. you need to appeal to different markets, and look beyond your current playerbase, or maximize and dont drop your playerbase. And you cant do that by continously only looking at the majority.

you would lose less people from your initial pool of people interested by appealing to them all somewhat, than you lose by appealing to the majority over time.

You have said it. I still don’t agree. There’s a flaw in your math. You’re assuming everyone is leaving and no one is returning or starting to play. That’s a kittenumption.

I’ve seen a lot of people coming back to the game since the Living Story Season 2. The ones in my guild are certainly enjoying it and looking forward to the next chapter. But they don’t appear anywhere your equation.

The people who left, briefly, to play ESO or maybe try Wildstar, some of those people are coming back too. That’s the thing. Without a subscription fee, the barrier to trying the game again is very small. And some people come back and are happy and like it. And some leave again, because that’s what they do.

You can’t worry about pleasing every demographic, or you’ll end up pleasing no one.

Im a bit confused. How is the number of people playing from parts of Asia and through the Oceanic countries the majority anyway? The majority would play close to the server locations. Thats how servers would be placed ideally.

If players of your particular time-zone didnt have a valid server option to choose (thus setting a prime time of its own), thats bad, and should have been a point of concern right at release. If nothing else, then players could have nominated a specific server unofficially for their timezone (or playing style intentions, exactly as Roleplayers did with Piken Square and Tarnished Coast). If there was a valid option and you chose wrong, you still had the option to guest or transfer. At the case of a transfer, that was that.

Now if you dont like the shard you have been placed into, your only option is force joining. Each and every single time you enter a new map.

Or log out. Thats an option too i guess.

lakdav.3694:

Im a bit confused. How is the number of people playing from parts of Asia and through the Oceanic countries the majority anyway? The majority would play close to the server locations. Thats how servers would be placed ideally.

If players of your particular time-zone didnt have a valid server option to choose (thus setting a prime time of its own), thats bad, and should have been a point of concern right at release. If nothing else, then players could have nominated a specific server unofficially for their timezone (or playing style intentions, exactly as Roleplayers did with Piken Square and Tarnished Coast). If there was a valid option and you chose wrong, you still had the option to guest or transfer. At the case of a transfer, that was that.

Now if you dont like the shard you have been placed into, your only option is force joining. Each and every single time you enter a new map.

Or log out. Thats an option too i guess.

I’m saying the people who want to see more people are the majority. The people who want to scale up events. And the people who were on “dead” servers. And the people who work nights. And the people who are over seas. It’s not just people overseas. You need to read all the posts, not the ones you want.

Plenty of people play MMOs just to see other people. The percentage of people who play MMOs to not see people isn’t really all that high, I think. Oh there are some.

And if you’re not doing the top big quests, you don’t have that crowding anyway. You can go do anything and find people now. Before to see people you had to go to the places where people were.

This game, the entire dynamic event system, was really designed with people in mind. It wasn’t designed to have one person running around a zone solo. The entire game falls apart that way. You get the boring leveling complaints. Having people around, for a lot of people, make it interesting. Even some people who solo alot, like to see people.

I believe the people who want to be off on their own somewhere are probably a minority. The Oceanics was a comment on freedom. Two different ideas going on here.

People wanting to scale up events would scale up events regardless. Thats how zerg trains came to existence. If a majority wants to do something, the majority will be there doing that thing, thus scaling it up.

People on dead servers, again, had the option to transfer.

People who work nights can form a guild of their own, probably more than just one guild. I doubt there are only 500 players like that per server. Hell, even appoint an entire server unofficially, one per timezone that would be active during the passive-time of that time-zone. Thus, the option to organize, as per how roleplayers did it originally.

Thats the funny thing with freedom. You cannot use it, it is taken away. And you thank them for it.

Well, no one is going to ever be able to prove who the majority is. You believe as you will, I believe as I will. I’m not sure how continuing this conversation will profit the thread.

Edit: Yes I certain do thank a company that makes my playing experience better. Why wouldn’t I?

Vayne.8563:

You have said it. I still don’t agree. There’s a flaw in your math. You’re assuming everyone is leaving and no one is returning or starting to play. That’s a kittenumption.

I’ve seen a lot of people coming back to the game since the Living Story Season 2. The ones in my guild are certainly enjoying it and looking forward to the next chapter. But they don’t appear anywhere your equation.

The people who left, briefly, to play ESO or maybe try Wildstar, some of those people are coming back too. That’s the thing. Without a subscription fee, the barrier to trying the game again is very small. And some people come back and are happy and like it. And some leave again, because that’s what they do.

You can’t worry about pleasing every demographic, or you’ll end up pleasing no one.

people dont come back if you alienate them, unless you give them back what alienated them. People do come back if they lose interest/get burned out.
As for new people, if you have a representive pool of statistics, IE you have a good slice of the general population who will play your game, the math ends up being the same.

sure you may increasse your numbers, but you still decrease them from what they would be.
IE, lets say you add a 1000 new players, if your initial sample of 1000 is a representive of that average gamer, you will once again only appeal to 360 of those players.
so instead of having say 80% of your inital players (With some not being alienated, but simply getting tired/looking for a change) and 80% of the new players, you end up with 36% of both.
so you get 1600 players versus 720.

: lets say you make a game that only appeals to white women age 15-20 who like one direction and you get 1000 new random people to play, you will still lose all the people who dont fit that demographic. Even if 51% of your players were women, 80% of them were 15-20 and 60% of them liked one direction.

The person who leaves to try wildstar wasnt really alienated, they just wanted something new, the person who leaves because he feels megaservers ruined his community, and anet never did anything to respond to that demographic isnt going to come back until anet solves that problem, and even then they may not because of a bad taste in their mouthes.

this is why its bad to alienate players.

Essentially:

• alienated players often dont return till you change what alienated them (which means you have to appeal to those outside the majority, in fact, at that time out of your population, they are an even smaller minority because many left)

• If your design is specific to multiple passes of your majority, you will lose the same % of new players.

Therefor
It is bad to continously make changes based on what the current majority is repeatedly(if they are changes on the level of alienation), unless you want to shrink your appeal.

@phys

And what percentage of alienated people wouldn’t return anyway? I think it’s likely pretty high. Rift alienated me and I never looked back.

Vayne.8563:

@phys

And what percentage of alienated people wouldn’t return anyway? I think it’s likely pretty high. Rift alienated me and I never looked back.

Exactly, which is why i think its a bad idea to simply go by what your current majority says when you are talking about polarizing/alienating descions. Its in your best interest to try to appease both sides and come up with mutually beneficial solutions, or at the least solutions that dont directly alienate groups of your customers.

Its not black and white, you cant ALWAYS please everyone, but you should attempt to please many types of people, and not simply distill your product, but also to expand its appeal.

Either that, or you just make a product you think is awesome and ignore everyone, and take your chances, appealing to no one directly, but that method does have real risks

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

@phys

And what percentage of alienated people wouldn’t return anyway? I think it’s likely pretty high. Rift alienated me and I never looked back.

Exactly, which is why i think its a bad idea to simply go by what your current majority says when you are talking about polarizing/alienating descions. Its in your best interest to try to appease both sides and come up with mutually beneficial solutions, or at the least solutions that dont directly alienate groups of your customers.

Its not black and white, you cant ALWAYS please everyone, but you should attempt to please many types of people, and not simply distill your product, but also to expand its appeal.

Either that, or you just make a product you think is awesome and ignore everyone, and take your chances, appealing to no one directly, but that method does have real risks

The problem is, many of those people are already gone. At this point many of those people are not going to come back. It’s like closing the barn door after the horse is gone.

I think a lot of the people who were going to leave have already left which leaves a population of relatively like minded people to protect…including those who have come back.

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, many of those people are already gone. At this point many of those people are not going to come back. It’s like closing the barn door after the horse is gone.

I think a lot of the people who were going to leave have already left which leaves a population of relatively like minded people to protect…including those who have come back.

Well some have left for sure, but I am not leaving because of it but it still makes my experience miserable on a daily basis There are so many other things I like about the game that keep me around despite the horrible mega server. A lot of others seem to feel the same… there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t hear multiple people complaining about mega servers. So if the ones who really hated it have all left… that means there are boatloads of people who hate it but not enough to leave still here and still looking for a fix.

Megaserver,such a nice feature.
I love it but it ruined many things for me.
I am a guild leader and i was playing on a low pop. server. When we tried to do Teq, we started organizing ,getting the guilds we could…etc….ofc…fail but it was so much fun.
At some point i started to have a lvl of influence on the server,many players knew me,guild leaders etc.
I got to that point where everyone wants to get , to be acknowledged as a player and guild leader,your words to be listened.
Megaserver took from me all that.Now i am just a player with strangers around me,who maybe never heard of me.
Even if we had a low pop server and things were not going well,we still had that.. if i can call it…bond,our little community.
Why i love Megaserver? I can do whatever boss i want to…
This is what i think about Megaserver….

Vayne.8563:

I’m saying the people who want to see more people are the majority. The people who want to scale up events. And the people who were on “dead” servers. And the people who work nights. And the people who are over seas. It’s not just people overseas. You need to read all the posts, not the ones you want.

Plenty of people play MMOs just to see other people. The percentage of people who play MMOs to not see people isn’t really all that high, I think. Oh there are some.

And if you’re not doing the top big quests, you don’t have that crowding anyway. You can go do anything and find people now. Before to see people you had to go to the places where people were.

This game, the entire dynamic event system, was really designed with people in mind. It wasn’t designed to have one person running around a zone solo. The entire game falls apart that way. You get the boring leveling complaints. Having people around, for a lot of people, make it interesting. Even some people who solo alot, like to see people.

I believe the people who want to be off on their own somewhere are probably a minority. The Oceanics was a comment on freedom. Two different ideas going on here.

I’ve seen this sort of thinking a few times in this thread…. So, I’m going to clear it up, mmo’s have nothing to do with seeing ‘plenty of people’. Mmo’s have nothing to do with how many random players you can squeeze into a zone.

The majority of gamers who play mmo’s DO NOT play to see plenty of people, they play to be with their communities. Thats what makes and breaks mmo’s, communities, communities which AN has decided to destroy.

If you’re playing an mmorpg just to see 100 other avatars running around a map, then you may as well be playing an offline single player game with 100 ai bots running around.

Elagos.6029:

Vayne.8563:

I’m saying the people who want to see more people are the majority. The people who want to scale up events. And the people who were on “dead” servers. And the people who work nights. And the people who are over seas. It’s not just people overseas. You need to read all the posts, not the ones you want.

Plenty of people play MMOs just to see other people. The percentage of people who play MMOs to not see people isn’t really all that high, I think. Oh there are some.

And if you’re not doing the top big quests, you don’t have that crowding anyway. You can go do anything and find people now. Before to see people you had to go to the places where people were.

This game, the entire dynamic event system, was really designed with people in mind. It wasn’t designed to have one person running around a zone solo. The entire game falls apart that way. You get the boring leveling complaints. Having people around, for a lot of people, make it interesting. Even some people who solo alot, like to see people.

I believe the people who want to be off on their own somewhere are probably a minority. The Oceanics was a comment on freedom. Two different ideas going on here.

I’ve seen this sort of thinking a few times in this thread…. So, I’m going to clear it up, mmo’s have nothing to do with seeing ‘plenty of people’. Mmo’s have nothing to do with how many random players you can squeeze into a zone.

The majority of gamers who play mmo’s DO NOT play to see plenty of people, they play to be with their communities. Thats what makes and breaks mmo’s, communities, communities which AN has decided to destroy.

If you’re playing an mmorpg just to see 100 other avatars running around a map, then you may as well be playing an offline single player game with 100 ai bots running around.

Except that not everyone plays MMOs for a server community. Many people play MMOs for the guild community? Why? Because you have more control over your experience in a guild.

If you join an RP guild you’ll mostly be around RPers. If you join a casual guild it’s unlikely anyone will ask you to zerk or get out. If you join a speed clear guild you’ll find people who want to be efficient.

My guild is my community and there’s enough people on most of the time where I don’t need a server community. I believe that in the old days when less people were playing, server community was very important but with the influx of more and more players, it’s become less so. Once the console generation started coming in, and the people who came late to WoW the emphasis shifted.

So yes, my guild is my community. I’m pretty sure that’s more common these days than people depending on a server community.