Guild Wars 2

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

I gave specific examples of the pieced together development by what we see being implemented. There is no speculating… Fact that we have a mini raid and no legendary armor to even view is not a speculation. Nor is 1 wvw map while the rest of wvw is in production. Nor profession neglect that has been pointed out many times in and out of these forums… Those are facts… And that’s where “cost efficiency” come into play…

You are asking us to conclude with you that “cost efficiency” is the issue behind your observations. You’ve not looked at other possible issues that may have produced the effects. Thus, your analysis is flawed. Flawed analysis means suspect conclusions.

MMO developers failing to provide everything that MMO consumers might want at the pace those consumers prefer is the state of the genre. It certainly is not something unique to GW2. Nor is it new with regard to GW2. There have been complaints about GW2 content provision, lack of new profession mechanics, lack of attention to WvW, etc. since very shortly after the game launched. I’m sure that costs are a factor in that dynamic, but this is not something new.

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

Then buy some gems.

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No absolutely not.
It is quite the opposite.
Cost efficiency or any efficiency comes into play when you already have an outcome.
Think of motor and gas. You don’t get more motor for same gas.
Your motor is using up less gas.

Since there is already the game GW2 and it is impossible to remove contend
it means less people or less performance or combined.

And my opinion is that already see where they cut corners.
Actually everyone saw it coming when playing GW1.
This game shows what happens when the producer go the extra mile to
make people happy.
I was suspicious from the beginning how to jump over a bar set that high.
And yeah.. they didn’t especially when they didn’t put in what they should have.

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

I gave specific examples of the pieced together development by what we see being implemented. There is no speculating… Fact that we have a mini raid and no legendary armor to even view is not a speculation. Nor is 1 wvw map while the rest of wvw is in production. Nor profession neglect that has been pointed out many times in and out of these forums… Those are facts… And that’s where “cost efficiency” come into play…

You are asking us to conclude with you that “cost efficiency” is the issue behind your observations. You’ve not looked at other possible issues that may have produced the effects. Thus, your analysis is flawed. Flawed analysis means suspect conclusions.

MMO developers failing to provide everything that MMO consumers might want at the pace those consumers prefer is the state of the genre. It certainly is not something unique to GW2. Nor is it new with regard to GW2. There have been complaints about GW2 content provision, lack of new profession mechanics, lack of attention to WvW, etc. since very shortly after the game launched. I’m sure that costs are a factor in that dynamic, but this is not something new.

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

Then buy some gems.

I’m up to a few grand now… That’s my primary source of gold…

And it has nothing to do with that anyway…

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

I gave specific examples of the pieced together development by what we see being implemented. There is no speculating… Fact that we have a mini raid and no legendary armor to even view is not a speculation. Nor is 1 wvw map while the rest of wvw is in production. Nor profession neglect that has been pointed out many times in and out of these forums… Those are facts… And that’s where “cost efficiency” come into play…

You are asking us to conclude with you that “cost efficiency” is the issue behind your observations. You’ve not looked at other possible issues that may have produced the effects. Thus, your analysis is flawed. Flawed analysis means suspect conclusions.

MMO developers failing to provide everything that MMO consumers might want at the pace those consumers prefer is the state of the genre. It certainly is not something unique to GW2. Nor is it new with regard to GW2. There have been complaints about GW2 content provision, lack of new profession mechanics, lack of attention to WvW, etc. since very shortly after the game launched. I’m sure that costs are a factor in that dynamic, but this is not something new.

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

Then buy some gems.

You must be new to economy.
People start paying money if they like a product not to make a product better.
This is the investors job.
People seem to confuse the purpose of investors or customers here since a long time.

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company. It only benefits the customer if they pass the savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t going to happen.

No. It’s using your existing resources the best so that you can to get the most optimal return. It’s not about cutting product features.

I can’t see where I wrote cutting product features, can you point that out for me?

You specifically didn’t but the OP did so I was using that in the context of this thread and subsequently the post.

No, no no… You’re not going to make up words or make assumptions from my op to make make a failing argument… I never said anything about “cutting product features”…

Okay…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why we only have a single new map now for wvw and nothing else…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why the raid is so tiny and boring, thus needing to be gated by these boss mechanics… and why we don’t even have a preview of legendary armors that were touted as the ultimate rewards…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why events like winter festival are so underwhelming… and the focus is more on material and karma “sinks” (for very very very poor rewards) and taking away, as opposed to meaningful rewards in return for these “sinks” and “giving” back to the loyal fan base that has been here supporting this game…

All of which you’re implying that Anet chose not to include some things because they’re trying to be “cost efficient”.

Nope. Wrong again. This is an ncsoft funding issue. Anet lacks the proper funding to produce and drop in whole “products” or more complete “products” in a timely manner and pace so things are pieced in or neglected because very hard choices have to be made. They do however need to compete with other games by adding “features” to their list. This is not an Anet issue, it’s the “big wig” issue…

You’re not going to get anywhere with me or these arguments by making assumptions. Sorry.

Me making assumptions?

• Prove that it’s an NCSoft funding issue
• Prove that Anet lacks proper funding to produce and drop whole products or more complete products in a timely manner.
• Prove that the earnings report has any bearing whatsoever to what you’re claiming.

Let’s see you stop with your assumptions…

Kirschsahne.2081:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No absolutely not.
It is quite the opposite.
Cost efficiency or any efficiency comes into play when you already have an outcome.
Think of motor and gas. You don’t get more motor for same gas.
Your motor is using up less gas.

Since there is already the game GW2 and it is impossible to remove contend
it means less people or less performance or combined.

And my opinion is that already see where they cut corners.
Actually everyone saw it coming when playing GW1.
This game shows what happens when the producer go the extra mile to
make people happy.
I was suspicious from the beginning how to jump over a bar set that high.
And yeah.. they didn’t especially when they didn’t put in what they should have.

Your example is all backwards whether deliberate or by accident.

When a company makes a car more gas efficient, do they remove features or do they find ways so that less gas is used but produces the same result. Perhaps you should take a look at what efficiency means.

Cost efficiency is not cutting or holding back content. It’s simply utilizing your available resources to reach a desired income with with less waste.

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company. It only benefits the customer if they pass the savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t going to happen.

No. It’s using your existing resources the best so that you can to get the most optimal return. It’s not about cutting product features.

I can’t see where I wrote cutting product features, can you point that out for me?

You specifically didn’t but the OP did so I was using that in the context of this thread and subsequently the post.

And you were wrong. But you still ignore the fact that “the most optimal return” is about focusing on profit. The only “return” is profit. Which is more in line with what the OP said than what you’ve been saying.
As far as what has been happening in the game itself, look at the rewards in HoT. 3 armor sets & 3.5 weapon sets for an entire expansion. That’s absolutely ludicrous. I’ve never seen an expansion so anemic. Now that I think about it, They already have moved features to be “cost efficient”. After the xpac they came out with a record number of Gem Store armor & weapons.

Nope. The OP is misusing the term “cost efficiency” as are you. Nowhere was I dismissing return as being profit. You’re just choosing to assume that I was since I didn’t specifically call it out. Cost efficiency isn’t about cutting features from products. It’s about reducing and minimizing wasted resources.

Based on what I’m seeing, you’d probably consider McDonalds taking fries out of their value meals as being cost efficient.

Then you can’t see very well. Taking fries out of value meals is cost efficient if it makes them more money (or the same amount) at less cost to them. Since most people wouldn’t buy the meals at that point, it would not be cost efficient. But what you are saying is that Anet will increase profits by rearranging a few logistics or increasing the workload or output of their workers. To most of us that’s hilariously unrealistic, especially with the game industry’s history of over-working their employees. It is far more likely that they’ll do what they have been doing: moving assets that could be fun rewards from the playable game to the Gem Store. (a feature of HoT you’ve conveniently ignored) There is no other explanation for having a record number of Gem Store items & a record low number of rewards in an expac. You can stay in your “Anet can do no wrong” world or you can be slightly logical & know that cost efficiency is for Anet’s benefit only unless they pass savings or additional features to us (additional features only being meaningful to Anet if it makes them more money).

It’s also possible that it’s just business talk who’s only purpose is to sate investors. Either way, your ignorance of the armor/weapon features of HoT tells most of us all we need to know about your preconceived notions of Anet. & they don’t match up with reality.

I can see perfectly fine. You’re just using some warped and twisted definition of what cost efficiency really is.

My ignorance on armor/weapon skins that they have in the gem store? Are you new to the game? They’ve been doing this since launch.

’’’’……Of note is that the third quarter report stretches only to the end of September, thus predating both WildStar‘s shift in business model and Guild Wars 2‘s first expansion release. During the conference call, NCsoft said it has been focused on cost-efficiency…..’’’’

Either every1 english is worst than mine , or some ppl want to have a ‘’civilized argument’’ in the forums….

During the conference call = that conference like WoW are planed to be made 15-30 days after the end of each quarter ….
……before the x-pack ……

It has been focused on cost-efficiency = HELLO ??? like Wow when they stopped to produce content , to lower their costs and focus on the x-packs (for 9-12 months) …. ….just like here , wherethey stopped the updates , so they dont split their resources-manpower to the x-pack + Livng Story in the same time ?

And ofc the sales will be lower ….
a) no content = no willpower for ppl to login and play (and buy stuff)
b) NO1 IS FORCING YOU PAY REALY MONEY …… And 99% of the items in the cash shop dont dissapera after 1 month … forcing you to BUY IT NOWWWWW

I will give you 12 hours …. it wont be nice , i promish you …

Edit: Every1 can use as many sites as you want for ‘’ bad publicity + visiting the sites for views’’ , but i cant guaranted the phycological state of every1 in these ‘’happy days’’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPpBlDaKM_o

lord kuru is right. the problem isn’t money (altho it might be a symptom). the problem is the dev team has zero understanding of what made vanilla gw2 so enjoyable. they have turned a game with big ambition into a micro transaction harvesting game. gw2ville anyone?

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company. It only benefits the customer if they pass the savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t going to happen.

No. It’s using your existing resources the best so that you can to get the most optimal return. It’s not about cutting product features.

I can’t see where I wrote cutting product features, can you point that out for me?

You specifically didn’t but the OP did so I was using that in the context of this thread and subsequently the post.

No, no no… You’re not going to make up words or make assumptions from my op to make make a failing argument… I never said anything about “cutting product features”…

Okay…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why we only have a single new map now for wvw and nothing else…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why the raid is so tiny and boring, thus needing to be gated by these boss mechanics… and why we don’t even have a preview of legendary armors that were touted as the ultimate rewards…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why events like winter festival are so underwhelming… and the focus is more on material and karma “sinks” (for very very very poor rewards) and taking away, as opposed to meaningful rewards in return for these “sinks” and “giving” back to the loyal fan base that has been here supporting this game…

All of which you’re implying that Anet chose not to include some things because they’re trying to be “cost efficient”.

Nope. Wrong again. This is an ncsoft funding issue. Anet lacks the proper funding to produce and drop in whole “products” or more complete “products” in a timely manner and pace so things are pieced in or neglected because very hard choices have to be made. They do however need to compete with other games by adding “features” to their list. This is not an Anet issue, it’s the “big wig” issue…

You’re not going to get anywhere with me or these arguments by making assumptions. Sorry.

Me making assumptions?

• Prove that it’s an NCSoft funding issue
• Prove that Anet lacks proper funding to produce and drop whole products or more complete products in a timely manner.
• Prove that the earnings report has any bearing whatsoever to what you’re claiming.

Let’s see you stop with your assumptions…

Haha I already quoted and highlighted the snip from the conference call…

http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/04/ncsoft-q3-2015-financial-report-guild-wars-2-wildstar-all-game-sales-down/

Again, your argument holds no water. Sorry

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company. It only benefits the customer if they pass the savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t going to happen.

No. It’s using your existing resources the best so that you can to get the most optimal return. It’s not about cutting product features.

I can’t see where I wrote cutting product features, can you point that out for me?

You specifically didn’t but the OP did so I was using that in the context of this thread and subsequently the post.

No, no no… You’re not going to make up words or make assumptions from my op to make make a failing argument… I never said anything about “cutting product features”…

Okay…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why we only have a single new map now for wvw and nothing else…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why the raid is so tiny and boring, thus needing to be gated by these boss mechanics… and why we don’t even have a preview of legendary armors that were touted as the ultimate rewards…

“Cost-efficiency” is the reason why events like winter festival are so underwhelming… and the focus is more on material and karma “sinks” (for very very very poor rewards) and taking away, as opposed to meaningful rewards in return for these “sinks” and “giving” back to the loyal fan base that has been here supporting this game…

All of which you’re implying that Anet chose not to include some things because they’re trying to be “cost efficient”.

Nope. Wrong again. This is an ncsoft funding issue. Anet lacks the proper funding to produce and drop in whole “products” or more complete “products” in a timely manner and pace so things are pieced in or neglected because very hard choices have to be made. They do however need to compete with other games by adding “features” to their list. This is not an Anet issue, it’s the “big wig” issue…

You’re not going to get anywhere with me or these arguments by making assumptions. Sorry.

Me making assumptions?

• Prove that it’s an NCSoft funding issue
• Prove that Anet lacks proper funding to produce and drop whole products or more complete products in a timely manner.
• Prove that the earnings report has any bearing whatsoever to what you’re claiming.

Let’s see you stop with your assumptions…

Haha I already quoted and highlighted the snip from the conference call…

http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/04/ncsoft-q3-2015-financial-report-guild-wars-2-wildstar-all-game-sales-down/

Again, your argument holds no water. Sorry

Which doesn’t address those questions. All you have shown is that you can read a very brief article. You have shown that you haven’t read the actual earnings report as well as previous releases. You still haven’t show that your argument holds any water and whether the details in the earnings report as any relevancy to what you claim to be “bad” with the expansion and GW2 in general.

“Cost efficiency” is all I really needed to read actually and the proof… You’re silly…

I am up to date on all other things

Proof is in the patches…

Your questions are meaningless honestly and I won’t appease your insistence to spin doctor things…

Good luck and happy holidays

Kirschsahne.2081:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

I gave specific examples of the pieced together development by what we see being implemented. There is no speculating… Fact that we have a mini raid and no legendary armor to even view is not a speculation. Nor is 1 wvw map while the rest of wvw is in production. Nor profession neglect that has been pointed out many times in and out of these forums… Those are facts… And that’s where “cost efficiency” come into play…

You are asking us to conclude with you that “cost efficiency” is the issue behind your observations. You’ve not looked at other possible issues that may have produced the effects. Thus, your analysis is flawed. Flawed analysis means suspect conclusions.

MMO developers failing to provide everything that MMO consumers might want at the pace those consumers prefer is the state of the genre. It certainly is not something unique to GW2. Nor is it new with regard to GW2. There have been complaints about GW2 content provision, lack of new profession mechanics, lack of attention to WvW, etc. since very shortly after the game launched. I’m sure that costs are a factor in that dynamic, but this is not something new.

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

Then buy some gems.

You must be new to economy.

I had a chuckle.

Kirschsahne.2081:

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

I gave specific examples of the pieced together development by what we see being implemented. There is no speculating… Fact that we have a mini raid and no legendary armor to even view is not a speculation. Nor is 1 wvw map while the rest of wvw is in production. Nor profession neglect that has been pointed out many times in and out of these forums… Those are facts… And that’s where “cost efficiency” come into play…

You are asking us to conclude with you that “cost efficiency” is the issue behind your observations. You’ve not looked at other possible issues that may have produced the effects. Thus, your analysis is flawed. Flawed analysis means suspect conclusions.

MMO developers failing to provide everything that MMO consumers might want at the pace those consumers prefer is the state of the genre. It certainly is not something unique to GW2. Nor is it new with regard to GW2. There have been complaints about GW2 content provision, lack of new profession mechanics, lack of attention to WvW, etc. since very shortly after the game launched. I’m sure that costs are a factor in that dynamic, but this is not something new.

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

Then buy some gems.

You must be new to economy.
…

Post of the year.

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

So, what’s happening there? ANet is now publishing GW2. That can only mean that NCSoft is in fact subsidizing ANet less, if at all. Does it also mean that NCSoft has less (or no) say in what ANet does? I’ve seen nothing to indicate that anyone outside of Anet and NCSoft know the answers to these questions.

Also, why did ANet make this move? Do they see this as a way to have total control of the game they produce? Do they feel this is a better move for them financially? Surely they has some reason. Was this in fact the part of NCSoft’s cost effectiveness measures that applied to ANet?

It’s easy to say that NCSOFT should throw more cash at GW2. There are other things to consider, though. MMO’s are either a stagnant or a declining market. The MMO player-base swelled a great deal due to WoW. There is little to no indication that the MMO consumer base is continuing to grow. New MMO’s have launched regularly, and none have had the success WoW did.

No MMO, even WoW with its huge subscriber base, has ever satisfied the most demanding MMO consumer in terms of providing “enough.” What leads you to believe that GW2 could do this? If it were possible for “enough resources to provide satisfaction to the most demanding consumers,” surely WoW would have had the best chance with its huge monthly income (by comparison to every other MMO).

GW2 had over 22,000M KW as revenue in Q2 15. That works out to about $6.3M per month, which works out to 420,000 subs at $15/month. WoW had 12 million at its high water mark. Sure, they didn’t all pay the $15, but if 1/4 did, that was $72M/month in revenue. And WoW could not, according to its own forums, satisfy its consumer base.

Now, could GW2 be more efficient in providing stuff players want? Of course. However, they’ve admitted to making development commitments to systems that hamper their ability to change the game. Changing from those systems to more efficient ones

My point in all this, is that the current situation is likely a lot more complex than you’re painting it to be.

The basic problem is that most MMO players have no concept of how much it costs to run an MMO and expect the game devs to keep adding more stuff for players to do while the player base wants it all done for free.
You only have to read all the posts about what the Devs should be doing to make this game great, but NEVER have I seen anything about offering to pay more to play it.
Far too many players living in economic fantasy land.
Would you be happy if GW2 was P2P like WOW with the same monthly sub?

Swagger.1459:

“Cost efficiency” is all I really needed to read actually and the proof… You’re silly…

I am up to date on all other things

Proof is in the patches…

Your questions are meaningless honestly and I won’t appease your insistence to spin doctor things…

Good luck and happy holidays

What about the patches? You mean the bug fixes? All games have bugs so you can’t really hold that against Anet. The expansion’s release was fairly flawless and anything that prevented progression was relatively, quickly resolved. There are still other things that they’re working on that will take more time. If you were expecting perfection then yiu’re being unrealistic.

All I have seen from you is that you have a preconceived opinion on the game and some dislikes. You read the article, without understanding any of what was being discussed (briefly), and didn’t understand what they meant by cost efficiency. Your only connection with your opinion about the game, and what’s in that article, is your definition of cost efficiency. Remove that and there’s no connection. Something I pressed for you to provide.

You’re also ignoring that what you currently see could be design choices which have no bearing on finances. The issue is that you’re seeing only what you want to see. Not everything is about cutting costs and/or features. It also isn’t all about shifting features to where they can scrape the maximum profit. Cost efficiency is how well a company manages their costs to reduces wastes. It could include cost cutting (such as labor) but that’s not what it is all about.

So far, none of the earnings reports released up to this point lend any support to what you are claiming. I don’t really have any desire to get into what you are claiming is correct or not. I just don’t agree that the earnings report supports your statements.

the actual problem is when players compare gw2 launch and it’s first year to the next 2+ years.

in the first year of development(including launch) we got a tremendous amount of content. since then…not much. a paltry ‘expansion’ (3 dry top style maps with shared textures and creatures..and 1 event map) and some very limited holiday ‘events’(recycled from years past with bugged out features).

it’s very difficult in any sort of creative endeavour to break out of the small minded mindset of the accountant. once the goals become small it is a vicious cycle with the goals become every smaller. without vision and ambition gw2 is just in maintenance mode with the intention to bleed out the veteran players and string along the new ones for as long as they can-this is colin and john smith’s actual ‘vision’.

so that is the root problem…this dev team has no victories to show for the time and money spent. and nothing is being developed (legendary weapon skins and raid wings have very little broad appeal) for the fans of the franchise.

and when people cry anet poverty let’s remember they spent 200k just for prize money for espartz (total investment probably at least a million)…one wonders what they could have done hiring some passionate content developers for that same money.

we have to remember that an mmo isn’t a non profit. i would argue they are actually doing fairly well monetarily but they have squandered the money and time and now are quite stuck(and unfortunately us with them ^^;)-they haven’t the talent or will to be ambitious anymore.

mauried.5608:

The basic problem is that most MMO players have no concept of how much it costs to run an MMO and expect the game devs to keep adding more stuff for players to do while the player base wants it all done for free.
You only have to read all the posts about what the Devs should be doing to make this game great, but NEVER have I seen anything about offering to pay more to play it.
Far too many players living in economic fantasy land.
Would you be happy if GW2 was P2P like WOW with the same monthly sub?

They had the choice at launch of making it BTP so the fault is theirs if it is not working out financially for them. They instead made it a F2P game with a cash shop, but in return they nerfed the rewards we get in the core areas by a large degree. The esport direction does not interest me in the least, nor does having to live my life by their clock in their new version of Mario Wars 2.

IF I had to pay a sub at this point to help with making new content, it had better be a small amount. Although lately all they have shown me is less and less of what I like to do.

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

Palador.2170:

Vayne.8563:

We’ve seen no layoffs. We have seen hiring. I’m not thinking this is really an issue at this point.

That would depend on what everyone at ANet is doing.

If there’s a second project (and given ANet’s size, there really should be), then the staff on GW2 can drop even while they hire more people.

I’m not saying that this IS the case, as I have no way of knowing if it is or isn’t, but it’s a possibility we have to consider.

There’s no evidence Anet is working on anything else. There is evidence they’re working on Guild Wars 2. We can consider anything. But stuff gets leaked all the time. I’m not thinking Anet is making another game at this time.

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Swagger.1459:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

I gave specific examples of the pieced together development by what we see being implemented. There is no speculating… Fact that we have a mini raid and no legendary armor to even view is not a speculation. Nor is 1 wvw map while the rest of wvw is in production. Nor profession neglect that has been pointed out many times in and out of these forums… Those are facts… And that’s where “cost efficiency” come into play…

You are asking us to conclude with you that “cost efficiency” is the issue behind your observations. You’ve not looked at other possible issues that may have produced the effects. Thus, your analysis is flawed. Flawed analysis means suspect conclusions.

MMO developers failing to provide everything that MMO consumers might want at the pace those consumers prefer is the state of the genre. It certainly is not something unique to GW2. Nor is it new with regard to GW2. There have been complaints about GW2 content provision, lack of new profession mechanics, lack of attention to WvW, etc. since very shortly after the game launched. I’m sure that costs are a factor in that dynamic, but this is not something new.

Anet’s financial resources from ncsoft are too low and then spread too thin. That’s the main problem. This game deserves a very hefty injection of cash from the masters. Until then, it’s going to be continuous patchwork quilting on every project… That’s a problem.

I believe GW2 has the potential to be the number 1 flagship game for ncsoft. It needs a big cash boost…

You keep repeating this. Do you have some evidence, or is this just your opinion of the situation?

coso.9173:

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

this is a good question? how indeed? the expac is exceedingly thin with very little replay value (tougher monsters and unpleasant maps…and no reason to do them-no rewards). everything about hot is cheap and mean and without soul and players pick up on this rather quickly.

so that leaves us with recycled holiday events (that are shells of the originals) and a weekly release of gemstore items.

there is no talk of the big things that people want/expect (again mounts/player housing/new races/new maps/reinvigorating the crafting system/character customization options) instead what little information we get from anet involves legendary weapons and perhaps legendary armor at some point.

these are very tiny additions to the game. tinkering at the edges when broad ambitious plans are called for. the tyranny of the stingy mind-thanks colin and john smith!

notes-i do realize some people like hot but some people also like 2 and half men. bad taste isn’t proof of popularity nor quality.

Give us a premium subscription then with lots of quality of life benefits.
Like every month the choice of one of the new costumes released.
One free black lion skin per month.
Unlimited gathering tools for every character.
Max bank tabs
Max bag slots
Unlimited reskinning/hairstyling
Increased limit of ascended crafting per day would really attract players. (2muchpay2win?, though it something more specific)
Increased limit of raid rewards per week
Unlimited Banker/Merchant/TP spawning
Join any megaserver you want, premium slots !

Okay I think I’m just dreaming

Selkirk.4218:

coso.9173:

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

this is a good question? how indeed? the expac is exceedingly thin with very little replay value (tougher monsters and unpleasant maps…and no reason to do them-no rewards). everything about hot is cheap and mean and without soul and players pick up on this rather quickly.

so that leaves us with recycled holiday events (that are shells of the originals) and a weekly release of gemstore items.

there is no talk of the big things that people want/expect (again mounts/player housing/new races/new maps/reinvigorating the crafting system/character customization options) instead what little information we get from anet involves legendary weapons and perhaps legendary armor at some point.

these are very tiny additions to the game. tinkering at the edges when broad ambitious plans are called for. the tyranny of the stingy mind-thanks colin and john smith!

notes-i do realize some people like hot but some people also like 2 and half men. bad taste isn’t proof of popularity nor quality.

just because you or others don’t enjoy the expansion doesn’t mean at all that you can’t count it on what’s been added recently to the game. Maintenance mode implies the game doesn’t get new content (or significant content) a whole new expansion IS significant content, no matter how little you enjoyed it.

coso.9173:

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

and if you look at my topic . you will just see for your self how that brand new pack

is really going. and how well the game is really being played or not

just so you do not have a hard time finding it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/real-NUMBERS-do-not-lie-current-severs/first#post5880393

I recently read this article in Fortune. http://fortune.com/2015/11/24/areanet-investing-in-esports/
If this is true , 200.000 dollars each season is a massive amount to be sinking into PVP cash prizes. I would love to see the figures of what percentage of GW players are benefiting from this amount. That is a massive waste of money especially for a game that’s reporting losses.

It would be far more beneficial to use this money to make the game more exciting and rewarding for its PVE/ WVW player base, making rewards better for them. Hiring extra staff to sorting out the bugs that have hung for years, developers actually taking professional and not personal preferences to class balancing, listening to its user base etc . But then, I don’t understand Anets/ NCsoft view on marketing – it’s head in the sand approach is really damaging IMO, this is why people are leaving to move to other games that offer better communication and player satisfaction.

Not that I disagree with PVP cash prizes but i just think this is money ill spent and more so when PVE players are having to fork over gem to gold conversion, to get items when the RNG is so blooming poor who NCsoft are just feeding into PVP esports. The logic is just mental , just keep the PVE crowd happy as this is the main block of gemstore funders, create easier and better rewards. For example, the recent recipe changes made ascended armor crafting harder than it should be, it actually punished new players with more grind and also stabbed its existing player-base with harder changes.

Everyone must remember that one kid who used to move the goalpost jerseys to cheat to make the ball easier to catch. NCsoft/ Anet is that kid and really they can’t claim falling profits is not due to players migrating to other games due to such ill thought moves.

The logic is simple, keep the PVE ground troops happy and then you can feed your high flyers, without the ground troops the high flyers will simply move on to the next cash prize give away. No brand loyalty when cash is concerned but your run of the mill ordinary gamer is there for as long as the game is good and rewards good gameplay.

ham.8209:

coso.9173:

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

and if you look at my topic . you will just see for your self how that brand new pack

is really going. and how well the game is really being played or not

just so you do not have a hard time finding it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/real-NUMBERS-do-not-lie-current-severs/first#post5880393

Except you were proven wrong, or at the very least less likely to be correct, in your thread. It was announced months ago that they were redoing how population levels were handled since only WvW really depended on them. This may also change again depending on how their WvW team revamps WvW.

I guess we can take it as a hard fact that Wildstar took the majority of losses here. The lazy gamer in me hopes that this is due to the idea that hardcore players are just not the majority of gamers and you just can´t build a game on them. This would run contrary to people stating that this part of the gaming community is both large and buy trigger happy.
Sadly I can´t be sure of that, although I think it holds some merit. It could indeed also be that the business model did not fit or that the game is simply lacking in crucial departments.

Cost efficiency does sound good in the first moment as it at least suggest to me that NcSoft does not want to make straw giants who are all straw and have little substance. It could also mean that the budget they have or contribute to GW2 is rather small and they are forced to make only small stuff for a small price. This would add to my idea that minigames in HoT were just added to bloat and stretch it´s longlivety. Cost efficiency at it´s best.

ham.8209:

Ayrilana.1396:

ham.8209:

coso.9173:

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

and if you look at my topic . you will just see for your self how that brand new pack

is really going. and how well the game is really being played or not

just so you do not have a hard time finding it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/real-NUMBERS-do-not-lie-current-severs/first#post5880393

Except you were proven wrong, or at the very least less likely to be correct, in your thread. It was announced months ago that they were redoing how population levels were handled since only WvW really depended on them. This may also change again depending on how their WvW team revamps WvW.

it is clear your very uneducated with out a question at all . you proved that with this

post . and i will say it again and maybe you will get it this time

wvw and pvp does NOT MATTER HERE !!!

If you’re going to be rude and call someone uneducated at least use proper grammar, punctuation, and know the difference between your and you’re.

If you read the responses in that thread of yours, you’d see that the population levels are based entirely on WvW activity. Since you linked that thread, WvW does matter here. Thanks.

Well, what a surprise.

Attempting to cater to a vocal minority, whose main “agenda” is demanding that things are taken away from the majority, isn’t a big money spinner.

Who could have ever predicted that…?

Swagger.1459:

“Cost efficiency” is all I really needed to read actually and the proof… You’re silly…

I am up to date on all other things

Proof is in the patches…

Your questions are meaningless honestly and I won’t appease your insistence to spin doctor things…

Good luck and happy holidays

You’re not up to date on other things. ArenaNet stated themselves that HoT is heavy on systems and code for the future. Which in general is something you design before everything else. That means you’re looking at the outside of a vehicle while not looking under the hood and claim you know whats happening while not having single clue what has actually been done merely because you don’t like the chassis.

Tommyknocker.6089:

mauried.5608:

The basic problem is that most MMO players have no concept of how much it costs to run an MMO and expect the game devs to keep adding more stuff for players to do while the player base wants it all done for free.
You only have to read all the posts about what the Devs should be doing to make this game great, but NEVER have I seen anything about offering to pay more to play it.
Far too many players living in economic fantasy land.
Would you be happy if GW2 was P2P like WOW with the same monthly sub?

They had the choice at launch of making it BTP so the fault is theirs if it is not working out financially for them. They instead made it a F2P game with a cash shop, but in return they nerfed the rewards we get in the core areas by a large degree. The esport direction does not interest me in the least, nor does having to live my life by their clock in their new version of Mario Wars 2.

IF I had to pay a sub at this point to help with making new content, it had better be a small amount. Although lately all they have shown me is less and less of what I like to do.

Well yes, the fault is theirs, in a way, but trying to make sure something remains profitable, in a capitalist world (even if you have to change a few things), isn’t a crime…

I do agree with you, in general, though.

Games companies need to choose, once and for all:

Do they want to cater to a small subset of hardcore gamers (which perhaps their owners and devs, also, are) who want exclusive rewards and ever shrinking (or never growing) accessibility and rewards for “the masses”?

Or, do they want to maximise profits?

Because, I really don’t think this flip-flopping approach is going to fly for much longer…

If they wanted to do the former, they should have stuck to that from the start and not got greedy, or floated their companies on the stock exchange, frankly.

Rather than trying to have their cake and eat it too, by using casual players to fund hardcore activities and then acting all shocked and surprised when casuals, finally, got tired of being used.

If they wanted to do the latter, then good.

But don’t then do the dirty on the casual majority, by flopping back to the hardcore side all the time, having happily taken the casuals’ money…

Not just talking about Anet, here – Blizzard are equally, if not more, guilty of this type of duplicitous behaviour.

Ayrilana.1396:

ham.8209:

Ayrilana.1396:

ham.8209:

coso.9173:

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

and if you look at my topic . you will just see for your self how that brand new pack

is really going. and how well the game is really being played or not

just so you do not have a hard time finding it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/real-NUMBERS-do-not-lie-current-severs/first#post5880393

Except you were proven wrong, or at the very least less likely to be correct, in your thread. It was announced months ago that they were redoing how population levels were handled since only WvW really depended on them. This may also change again depending on how their WvW team revamps WvW.

it is clear your very uneducated with out a question at all . you proved that with this

post . and i will say it again and maybe you will get it this time

wvw and pvp does NOT MATTER HERE !!!

If you’re going to be rude and call someone uneducated at least use proper grammar, punctuation, and know the difference between your and you’re.

If you read the responses in that thread of yours, you’d see that the population levels are based entirely on WvW activity. Since you linked that thread, WvW does matter here. Thanks.

ok fine fine wvw has got something to do with it. but also so does pvp and pve. and

if the wvw are low. then so should be the pve pvp numbers as well too. now not

being rude iam just putting the facts out there with that other post going. and also too

if you looked up the topic . before hot came out people was asking why they could

not transfer to full servers to play with there friends. if you looked at them topics

you have more answers they ant that hard to find

FrizzFreston.5290:

Swagger.1459:

“Cost efficiency” is all I really needed to read actually and the proof… You’re silly…

I am up to date on all other things

Proof is in the patches…

Your questions are meaningless honestly and I won’t appease your insistence to spin doctor things…

Good luck and happy holidays

You’re not up to date on other things. ArenaNet stated themselves that HoT is heavy on systems and code for the future. Which in general is something you design before everything else. That means you’re looking at the outside of a vehicle while not looking under the hood and claim you know whats happening while not having single clue what has actually been done merely because you don’t like the chassis.

Yup, fully aware… That’s not the point.

There has been a “cost efficiency” trend here from the top and has been for a long long time…

“Cost efficiency” statement translating into piece meal 1/4 patches are what I’m talking about… There are also a lot of good things on the various dinner table menus, but yeah…

If suggest you reread and put things into better context…

ham.8209:

Ayrilana.1396:

ham.8209:

Ayrilana.1396:

ham.8209:

coso.9173:

how is gw2 in “maintenance mode” just a few months after their first big expansion??

and if you look at my topic . you will just see for your self how that brand new pack

is really going. and how well the game is really being played or not

just so you do not have a hard time finding it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/real-NUMBERS-do-not-lie-current-severs/first#post5880393

Except you were proven wrong, or at the very least less likely to be correct, in your thread. It was announced months ago that they were redoing how population levels were handled since only WvW really depended on them. This may also change again depending on how their WvW team revamps WvW.

it is clear your very uneducated with out a question at all . you proved that with this

post . and i will say it again and maybe you will get it this time

wvw and pvp does NOT MATTER HERE !!!

If you’re going to be rude and call someone uneducated at least use proper grammar, punctuation, and know the difference between your and you’re.

If you read the responses in that thread of yours, you’d see that the population levels are based entirely on WvW activity. Since you linked that thread, WvW does matter here. Thanks.

ok fine fine wvw has got something to do with it. but also so does pvp and pve. and

if the wvw are low. then so should be the pve pvp numbers as well too. now not

being rude iam just putting the facts out there with that other post going. and also too

if you looked up the topic . before hot came out people was asking why they could

not transfer to full servers to play with there friends. if you looked at them topics

you have more answers they ant that hard to find

You aslo have your answer before your feet .
It is called : ppl whinned to play with their friends , and afterwards they create this system to reflect WvWvW activity .

And Ofc the WvWvW activity must be low atm , because :
a) ppl are doing PvE to unlock the Specialization (or zerg Eotm for the Rank up Chests)
b) ppl are doing the Holidays activities for fast cash
(hence > more items to the shop as goldsinks)
( 2 months ago it was 185 gold for 800 gems and now its 126 ? In an other 2 months we might see 100 gold > 800 gems CROSS FINGERS!!!)
c) ppl are doing PvP to unlock the backpiece (rather than wasting huge amount of gold to gear up for the Fractal’s one – i kinda enjoy the 21-23-40 :P)
d) Just like LoL and WoW -raiders and GW2-WvWvW , few of them are hardcore and the majority consist of casuals that enjoy beeeing anonymous (melt in/hide with the crowd > so they dont get blamed if anything goes wrong > but if they win they get a confidence ’’boost’’ that they contributed in that fight and feeling that they are needed somwehere (server pride))

Swagger.1459:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Swagger.1459:

“Cost efficiency” is all I really needed to read actually and the proof… You’re silly…

I am up to date on all other things

Proof is in the patches…

Your questions are meaningless honestly and I won’t appease your insistence to spin doctor things…

Good luck and happy holidays

You’re not up to date on other things. ArenaNet stated themselves that HoT is heavy on systems and code for the future. Which in general is something you design before everything else. That means you’re looking at the outside of a vehicle while not looking under the hood and claim you know whats happening while not having single clue what has actually been done merely because you don’t like the chassis.

Yup, fully aware… That’s not the point.

There has been a “cost efficiency” trend here from the top and has been for a long long time…

“Cost efficiency” statement translating into piece meal 1/4 patches are what I’m talking about… There are also a lot of good things on the various dinner table menus, but yeah…

If suggest you reread and put things into better context…

Ok can you link as what is happening in WoW with 1 billion dollars/per year then ?
Money can fix everything right ?

12 more hours ……

Swagger.1459:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Swagger.1459:

“Cost efficiency” is all I really needed to read actually and the proof… You’re silly…

I am up to date on all other things

Proof is in the patches…

Your questions are meaningless honestly and I won’t appease your insistence to spin doctor things…

Good luck and happy holidays

You’re not up to date on other things. ArenaNet stated themselves that HoT is heavy on systems and code for the future. Which in general is something you design before everything else. That means you’re looking at the outside of a vehicle while not looking under the hood and claim you know whats happening while not having single clue what has actually been done merely because you don’t like the chassis.

Yup, fully aware… That’s not the point.

There has been a “cost efficiency” trend here from the top and has been for a long long time…

“Cost efficiency” statement translating into piece meal 1/4 patches are what I’m talking about… There are also a lot of good things on the various dinner table menus, but yeah…

If suggest you reread and put things into better context…

Someone who believes he can be fully aware has immediately lost all credibility to me. It’s just complete nonsense someone spouts to defend their incapability to form good arguments. As far as I know what you claim is nothing more than a religion only you follow.

And I don’t think that your story holds no merit. Ofcourse there is some effect of a business plan on a product. But to flat out blame just one reason for bad design is shallowminded. It’s like saying sporters don’t win competitions because they didn’t get paid enough. To some extent that is true (entirely dependant on the situation sport and such) but not to the full extent.

If you were really fully aware as you claim, then you would not come here to point out one cog in the machine. That wouldn’t even cover all the problems you perceive.

mzt.3270:

I recently read this article in Fortune. http://fortune.com/2015/11/24/areanet-investing-in-esports/
If this is true , 200.000 dollars each season is a massive amount to be sinking into PVP cash prizes. I would love to see the figures of what percentage of GW players are benefiting from this amount. That is a massive waste of money especially for a game that’s reporting losses.

It would be far more beneficial to use this money to make the game more exciting and rewarding for its PVE/ WVW player base, making rewards better for them. Hiring extra staff to sorting out the bugs that have hung for years, developers actually taking professional and not personal preferences to class balancing, listening to its user base etc . But then, I don’t understand Anets/ NCsoft view on marketing – it’s head in the sand approach is really damaging IMO, this is why people are leaving to move to other games that offer better communication and player satisfaction.

Not that I disagree with PVP cash prizes but i just think this is money ill spent and more so when PVE players are having to fork over gem to gold conversion, to get items when the RNG is so blooming poor who NCsoft are just feeding into PVP esports. The logic is just mental , just keep the PVE crowd happy as this is the main block of gemstore funders, create easier and better rewards. For example, the recent recipe changes made ascended armor crafting harder than it should be, it actually punished new players with more grind and also stabbed its existing player-base with harder changes.

Everyone must remember that one kid who used to move the goalpost jerseys to cheat to make the ball easier to catch. NCsoft/ Anet is that kid and really they can’t claim falling profits is not due to players migrating to other games due to such ill thought moves.

The logic is simple, keep the PVE ground troops happy and then you can feed your high flyers, without the ground troops the high flyers will simply move on to the next cash prize give away. No brand loyalty when cash is concerned but your run of the mill ordinary gamer is there for as long as the game is good and rewards good gameplay.

Thanks for posting that link, I missed it… I made an addition to my op because of your post.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Swagger.1459:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Swagger.1459:

“Cost efficiency” is all I really needed to read actually and the proof… You’re silly…

I am up to date on all other things

Proof is in the patches…

Your questions are meaningless honestly and I won’t appease your insistence to spin doctor things…

Good luck and happy holidays

You’re not up to date on other things. ArenaNet stated themselves that HoT is heavy on systems and code for the future. Which in general is something you design before everything else. That means you’re looking at the outside of a vehicle while not looking under the hood and claim you know whats happening while not having single clue what has actually been done merely because you don’t like the chassis.

Yup, fully aware… That’s not the point.

There has been a “cost efficiency” trend here from the top and has been for a long long time…

“Cost efficiency” statement translating into piece meal 1/4 patches are what I’m talking about… There are also a lot of good things on the various dinner table menus, but yeah…

If suggest you reread and put things into better context…

Someone who believes he can be fully aware has immediately lost all credibility to me. It’s just complete nonsense someone spouts to defend their incapability to form good arguments. As far as I know what you claim is nothing more than a religion only you follow.

And I don’t think that your story holds no merit. Ofcourse there is some effect of a business plan on a product. But to flat out blame just one reason for bad design is shallowminded. It’s like saying sporters don’t win competitions because they didn’t get paid enough. To some extent that is true (entirely dependant on the situation sport and such) but not to the full extent.

If you were really fully aware as you claim, then you would not come here to point out one cog in the machine. That wouldn’t even cover all the problems you perceive.

You are veering off topic completely from one line. I’m not going to negotiate that one line when the larger topics still stand… Plus you quoted a reply to someone else.

I’m not going to argue for the sake of arguing. Talk about the topic that I posted, because I’m not going to have discussions on one phrase out of an entire thought and very large subject.

Thanks

Im on topic. You were stating to be fully aware of things going on in ArenaNet. I say you’re not.

You only state a few simple observations from which you draw adhoc conclusions. To which you respond to that you’re fully aware. And obviously you’re not. Your whole argument falls apart on that simple phrase that you provided all the proof. Which you haven’t.

I know I may have put it down in a complicated maybe incomplete way for you. But thats the gist of this thread.

What I meant was that the statement that all the complaints and lack of content lead from cost effeciency is way over simplified and shallowminded. Even more bluntly put.

You’ve essentially added two plus two and came up with the answer fish. There are so many possibilities, down to you misreading the ambiguous phrasing of the quote you posted.

There’s no fact here, just speculation presented as fact.

Sure vayne, “focused on cost efficiency” from a business conference call to investors and I highlighted what pieces of bigger things are in the game and promised to come and missing and neglected…

You have zero meangiful argument here. I’m not doing these straw man arguments from you, sorry.

Yeah, I don’t need anymore facts than those I presented.

Thanks

Edit- now if you can show me proof of any official legendary armor pics from Anet… If you can show me where the robust and meangiful winter event is… If you can show me there are more than a handful of spvp meta builds after 3 full years… If you can show me that ncsoft is really supporting growth of Anet on a large scale instead of saying “cost efficiency” then mentioning gw2 by name in the same sentence… Then we can have a discussion…

Edit 2- then asking for proof for the proof provided by both nc and Anet shows you have zero interest in talking about this topic. I’m given X amount of facts and thats what I work with… Want to disprove me, come up with your own factual statements from business calls and your own factual proof and point somewhere in current patch notes where we have these missing things… So far it’s a lot of tables of stuff at Anet, and that business call of “cost efficiency” explains a whole lot…

Swagger, I cannot help but think that this topic is going over your head. First of all: Whenever you claim something, it’s your job to support it with evidence unless you state: “This is what I’ve read, and therefore I assume a), b), c). I don’t know for sure, but this sounds like bad news to me.”

And there is reason to predict that “cost-efficiency” is going to bite the players in the behind. NCSoft has income problems? GW2 already has a fully fledged out and supported free to play model on top of the buy to play model since launch, there have been content droughts and HoT was at least partially bloated content. None of that is a sign of “we want to make the best possible MMO” but “we play it safe and try to make as much money as possible” and with NCSoft wanting to appease shareholders, it’s not unreasonable to assume that this is going to continue because they need or at least want that money.

But it is an assumption, not a fact. Unless you can come up with evidence – for example internal documents proving your point – these are not facts, therefore stop claiming that. There is no way you can know all the facts without being an ArenaNet executive or having the same sources of information like one – and you don’t.

I have conference call facts, financial document facts and I have patch note facts…

You are all pulling the “lemme see the facts for the facts for the other facts and where are hidden document facts and you need to fly to Korea and talk to the suits and get the facts”… argument… It’s very ridiculous of you all to dismiss the current facts I’m given…

Swagger.1459:

I have conference call facts, financial document facts and I have patch note facts…

You are all pulling the “lemme see the facts for the facts for the other facts and where are hidden document facts and you need to fly to Korea and talk to the suits and get the facts”… argument… It’s very ridiculous of you all to dismiss the current facts I’m given…

You have facts stretching from July to mid sep, can you elaborate what they are doing with the revenue from HoT and how much of it is going back into the game?

Swagger.1459:

I have conference call facts, financial document facts and I have patch note facts…

You are all pulling the “lemme see the facts for the facts for the other facts and where are hidden document facts and you need to fly to Korea and talk to the suits and get the facts”… argument… It’s very ridiculous of you all to dismiss the current facts I’m given…

I know those documents. If you’d take time to read my post instead of immediately trying to defend yourself, you’d see that I don’t think that your assumptions are unreasonable or invalid. But there is a line between assumptions and facts and that’s the problem.

Wanze.8410:

Swagger.1459:

I have conference call facts, financial document facts and I have patch note facts…

You are all pulling the “lemme see the facts for the facts for the other facts and where are hidden document facts and you need to fly to Korea and talk to the suits and get the facts”… argument… It’s very ridiculous of you all to dismiss the current facts I’m given…

You have facts stretching from July to mid sep, can you elaborate what they are doing with the revenue from HoT and how much of it is going back into the game?

I have patch notes showing trends from 3 years and a clear statement of “cost efficiency”…

And what does post hot revenue numbers have to do with things being discussed, mentioned and asked for… If I knew exactly what was being dropped and when and had a clearer road map from nc soft and Anet… I wouldn’t be talking about this subject… But I don’t, that’s why I bring up the facts I’m currently being provided and discussing them…

I’m talking about what I’m given Wanze, nc and anet are fully capable to engage in some way to this topic through various mediums…

It’s silly to ask for proof from me of post hot stuff when we are given little to work with and we don’t have access to 4th quarter numbers and we haven’t been given a year review or a next year wish list or roadmap…

You like your numbers so maybe see in the title I mention 2016… And make references to things up to 3rd quarter 2015…

Context and perspective and relevancy Wanze…

And obviously you see that the intent of the post is to hope for a better game for both devs and players… That requires better looking support by ncsoft… They own Anet. They call the shots. They can make or break this game.

Swagger.1459:

Sure vayne, “focused on cost efficiency” from a business conference call to investors and I highlighted what pieces of bigger things are in the game and promised to come and missing and neglected…

You have zero meangiful argument here. I’m not doing these straw man arguments from you, sorry.

Yeah, I don’t need anymore facts than those I presented.

Thanks

Edit- now if you can show me proof of any official legendary armor pics from Anet… If you can show me where the robust and meangiful winter event is… If you can show me there are more than a handful of spvp meta builds after 3 full years… If you can show me that ncsoft is really supporting growth of Anet on a large scale instead of saying “cost efficiency” then mentioning gw2 by name in the same sentence… Then we can have a discussion…

Edit 2- then asking for proof for the proof provided by both nc and Anet shows you have zero interest in talking about this topic. I’m given X amount of facts and thats what I work with… Want to disprove me, come up with your own factual statements from business calls and your own factual proof and point somewhere in current patch notes where we have these missing things… So far it’s a lot of tables of stuff at Anet, and that business call of “cost efficiency” explains a whole lot…

You presented one line, hell not even a line, a few words and you’re using that as your entire argument. That’s it. Look, an article had a couple of words. No context. Nothing. Zero.

Companies tell stock holders what they want to hear all the time. If profits are down, the sound bite is we’re going to cut costs. But there are times when that does happen, there are times when it doesn’t happen.

You’re drawing a conclusion about what’s going on with the game from a couple of words. That’s borderline ridiculous.

You can’t judge a company, or a game on a couple of words. I mean you can, but it wouldn’t be a very valid judgement.

You can repeat the same three, four words over and over again, and it’s still just that. Something said at one stock call, once.

In the larger scheme of things that’s meaningless.

As an example. the stuff that Anet is coming out with now, has been in the works for a year or more. So if this was said for let’s say the last quarter, it wouldn’t even affect the stuff we’ve seen yet. The timeline for the creation of anything in this genre is much longer than you think.

So even if this was happening, and even if the results of it are what you believe them to be, it’ll be many many months before we see those results. We’d only see these results if they were doing it say for the last year.

But a year ago, this wasn’t said in the stock call. So yeah, there’s no evidence at all.

I’m wondering why anyone would believe this is meaningful in any way, considering how many games NcSoft currently has and how general the conversation is.

NcSoft didn’t say they were cutting anything specifically. They didn’t say they had cut costs in Guild Wars 2. For all you know the cost cutting was on switching cleaning companies.

An assumption with nothing to go on, remains an assumption.

I don’t think GW2 is perfect. I don’t think ArenaNet is perfect. There are numerous issues I’d like to see addressed.

That said, OP:

You obviously have strong opinions about the game. These strong opinions were present before any of the information you presented was available. Have you even paused to consider how those prior convictions might influence your interpretations? If you can’t step back and honestly analyze that interaction then you are categorically incapable of providing a valid critique.

You don’t know. You don’t have inside information. Your interpretation of the available information is just that, interpretation. Your strident insistence that your interpretation is the only correct one, your summary dismissal of legitimate criticisms of your position, and your overall tone completely turn me off from seriously considering your points.

Challenging topic.

Firstly, cost-efficiency is not bad per se and we are not sure if Arenanet is the first target for this campaign. There were targets where NCsoft has cut the costs like Carbine or NCsoft West.

In addition we do not know how the release of HoT was innitially planned: all at once or batch by batch. But now I am happy that thy release it batch by batch. Otherwise we would have now have three new negatively received WvW maps and three more or less boring and uninspired raid wings. Now we have the chance that new iterations will prevent this.

The size of Hot we can judge at the eve before the paid expansion goes live. Right now it is far too early with out knowing what the LW seasons will 2016. The seasons were paid as part of the hot parcel/bundle.

The sales numbers of 2Q and 3Q 2015 are tricky. They do not include sales for HoT copies (All pre-purchases will be booked in 4Q ’15). Therefore they are more or less significantly lower. This makes the published numbers quite impressive. On the other hand we will get an abnormally high bloated number in 4Q ’15 and in all probability in 1Q ’16 too.

My assumed reason why Arenanet has taken over Gw2 marketing is the bigger investment in esports now. I assume that NCsoft was not as enthusiastic as Arenanet in this area. Keep in mind that B&S starts at Jan 19th in the western world. A game that has a decent PvP player base in Asia including bigger tournaments sponsored by NCsoft. It wil, be nice to see which game will more atttractiveness in regard to esports.