Guild Wars 2

vana.5467:

FirebrandFrog.7603:

Paul.4081:

I’d say the brainchild behind this change hasn’t played GW. In GW1 (loose term) the collection of elite skills was all about choice, like I said above, this new guff is not. Magi Malaquire isn’t sitting on a hill here, instead we have consolised devs thinking “YipEEE! SAB!” while watching the Star Wars prequels and wishing Jar Jar minis were in the cash shop!

I’m pretty sure a few of the devs for GW2 have never, ever played GW1. Or even want to. Which is a shame, they could learn some valuable lessons from Old Glory.

I couldn’t help but chuckle a little when they announced the free respecs.

Guild Wars was launched with a respec restriction (refund points), which was removed 4 months after release because it interfered with experimentation and discouraged people from toying around with the large number of skills.
2 years later, Guild Wars 2 was announced. They wanted people to experiment. Try this, try that – see what happens! Every interview was about the almost sandbox nature of the game.
Upon release, once again, respecs were restricted, though thankfully less than in GW1 (refund points were pretty bad). 18 months later, the restriction was removed to encourage experimentation. Surprise, surprise..

…and the new Trait system becomes both an utter mockery of and a complete exaggeration of GW1’s elite hunting system.

Ye gods.

It’s sort of a good thing that I had made all the characters I wanted before this change (so I don’t have to go through the grind until I buy a character slot for my Tengu Thief), but it’s still very poorly-executed. Idea’s fine! Just wish it wasn’t so…

Grindy.

Galphar.3901:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Hechicera.9816:

Elite farming in GW1 was fun. This is much less fun. I’m not sure exactly why. It seems to be more than one factor in play making it less fun.

A couple of things (IMO):

1) It might be less fun because it was added so late in the game’s life. Taking something away and then asking people to earn it back is very different that providing something for people to earn in the first place. I know that existing characters are grandfathered in, but people creating new characters have the experience of how it was handled previously to compare. The previous iteration of the trait system created an expectation of what was normal.

2) You could take a non elite skill in place of an elite in GW1. Not having capped a trait in GW2 might mean having an empty spot in your build.

Hasn’t affected me. Probably won’t that much. But I see why others might be unhappy.

But in Guild Wars 1, elites were much much more important and you were often seriously gimping yourself without an elite. Sure you could take a normal skill, but it meant nothing.

Think of builds made around discord, barrage, signet of spirits, unyielding aura…hell the builds were named after the elites.

Just because you could throw an inconsequential 8th skill in your bar, didn’t mean you weren’t seriously disadvantaged by doing so.

Correct Vayne, but also remember that Elite Skills were to be captured off of lvl20 Bosses and you had a quest to go capture an Elite(may not have been the one you wanted/needed but was still there). There are numerous traits in GW2 that are in areas with higher level mobs than when you should be able to get said trait. The Elite Skills caps were also not severely bugged or in some cases just non-obtainable like some traits in GW2.

But individual traits tend to be less important than those elite skills. That’s my point. There are very few make/break traits in this game, and very few builds named after traits.

Bottom line is you can level to 80 with minimal traits and still do just fine. In Guild Wars 1 it was a bit different because you were unlocking skills, which in this game you can unlock from level 30, even if you don’t have the traits. Traits aren’t skills, so the comparison can’t be made, which is pretty much my point.

You can compare acquisition methods, but beyond that I don’t see it as a sustainable comparison.

The traits you can unlock at the levels you can unlock them were likely chosen to be relatively useful all around. I would imagine that those other traits hidden behind higher levels wouldn’t necessarily give people a huge advantage.

And you know, I’m not in favor of the trait rework as it stands now. I think it’s bad for the game over all. I think it’s not fun.

I just think comparing it to Guild Wars 1 isn’t the way to go about getting it changed.

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is you can level to 80 with minimal traits and still do just fine.

Except it’s boring as hell. Point of leveling up is to get cool stuff like skills/traits and you got that feeling with the old trait system starting from level 11. Now you don’t even start getting traits until 30 and you have to level up 6 times before another trait point comes your way. Feels way too slow.

tofumon.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is you can level to 80 with minimal traits and still do just fine.

Except it’s boring as hell. Point of leveling up is to get cool stuff like skills/traits and you got that feeling with the old trait system starting from level 11. Now you don’t even start getting traits until 30 and you have to level up 6 times before another trait point comes your way. Feels way too slow.

Well it’s sort of boring as hell either way, considering how many traits are passive. It’s not like most traits are more than just fire and forget anyway. And you know, it takes me like half an hour to get a single level. So it’s boring as hell for the 20 hours from 40-80?

I’m going to spent far more than 90% of the time on any character at 80th level. The traits haven’t particularly made leveling more interested for me in the past anyway.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Hechicera.9816:

Elite farming in GW1 was fun. This is much less fun. I’m not sure exactly why. It seems to be more than one factor in play making it less fun.

A couple of things (IMO):

1) It might be less fun because it was added so late in the game’s life. Taking something away and then asking people to earn it back is very different that providing something for people to earn in the first place. I know that existing characters are grandfathered in, but people creating new characters have the experience of how it was handled previously to compare. The previous iteration of the trait system created an expectation of what was normal.

2) You could take a non elite skill in place of an elite in GW1. Not having capped a trait in GW2 might mean having an empty spot in your build.

Hasn’t affected me. Probably won’t that much. But I see why others might be unhappy.

But in Guild Wars 1, elites were much much more important and you were often seriously gimping yourself without an elite. Sure you could take a normal skill, but it meant nothing.

Think of builds made around discord, barrage, signet of spirits, unyielding aura…hell the builds were named after the elites.

Just because you could throw an inconsequential 8th skill in your bar, didn’t mean you weren’t seriously disadvantaged by doing so.

I absolutely agree that an Elite was usually the cornerstone of your build. I wish elites in GW2 were a bit more important in that way.

But non-elite does not mean “inconsequential.” If it did then every build would have 7 inconsequential skills. The two most important skills on my bar were not elites…rez and d-shot. If any skill on one’s bar was truly inconsequential it said more about the player than about the skill in my opinion.

Heck, there was a period of time when I frequently chose to carry cap-sig because I didn’t like the idea of looking up bosses on wiki and wanted to be prepped in case I saw one of my class(es). That 8th slot was filled with a skill that was highly unlikely to be used, but was still better than having nothing in the slot.

Vayne.8563:

tofumon.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is you can level to 80 with minimal traits and still do just fine.

Except it’s boring as hell. Point of leveling up is to get cool stuff like skills/traits and you got that feeling with the old trait system starting from level 11. Now you don’t even start getting traits until 30 and you have to level up 6 times before another trait point comes your way. Feels way too slow.

Well it’s sort of boring as hell either way, considering how many traits are passive. It’s not like most traits are more than just fire and forget anyway. And you know, it takes me like half an hour to get a single level. So it’s boring as hell for the 20 hours from 40-80?

I’m going to spent far more than 90% of the time on any character at 80th level. The traits haven’t particularly made leveling more interested for me in the past anyway.

you are wrong, some traits are more powerful than even many elites were. Some classes traits define builds more than others.
For example beastmasters signet, totally changes how you play and your synergies,
illusionary persona, gives you 1/4th more effectiveness per shatter, and allows you to shatter on the dime in aoe around you.
clone on dodge turns evasion and vigor into fuel for shatters
mantras that give 3 instead of 2
20% cooldown reduction is equivalent of many energy returning elite types.

fresh air for elementalist (refreshes lighting attunement on critical)
engineer swiftness/vigor on kit swap combo.
empowering mantras
chaotic interuption
prismatic understanding

some classes Traits are more integral than others, and not every elite made the build, many simply increased the effeciency of the build.

Point is playing with no traits, and playing with traits can be a very substantial difference in playstyle, and builds and definately makes many classes way more entertaining.

also leveling takes about 45 min to an hour if you play normally, especially in the middle levels.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

tofumon.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is you can level to 80 with minimal traits and still do just fine.

Except it’s boring as hell. Point of leveling up is to get cool stuff like skills/traits and you got that feeling with the old trait system starting from level 11. Now you don’t even start getting traits until 30 and you have to level up 6 times before another trait point comes your way. Feels way too slow.

Well it’s sort of boring as hell either way, considering how many traits are passive. It’s not like most traits are more than just fire and forget anyway. And you know, it takes me like half an hour to get a single level. So it’s boring as hell for the 20 hours from 40-80?

I’m going to spent far more than 90% of the time on any character at 80th level. The traits haven’t particularly made leveling more interested for me in the past anyway.

you are wrong, some traits are more powerful than even many elites were. Some classes traits define builds more than others.
For example beastmasters signet, totally changes how you play and your synergies,
illusionary persona, gives you 1/4th more effectiveness per shatter, and allows you to shatter on the dime in aoe around you.
clone on dodge turns evasion and vigor into fuel for shatters
mantras that give 3 instead of 2
20% cooldown reduction is equivalent of many energy returning elite types.

fresh air for elementalist (refreshes lighting attunement on critical)
engineer swiftness/vigor on kit swap combo.
empowering mantras
chaotic interuption
prismatic understanding

some classes Traits are more integral than others, and not every elite made the build, many simply increased the effeciency of the build.

Point is playing with no traits, and playing with traits can be a very substantial difference in playstyle, and builds and definately makes many classes way more entertaining.

also leveling takes about 45 min to an hour if you play normally, especially in the middle levels.

This is why I used the word most. Most being the majority of.

But now you have a different situation. You have a few traits that rule the others. How hard are those specific traits to get.

I’m not defending the system, because I don’t like it. But I have leveled a character after the April first patch to check it out.

The way I play it made little difference. Obviously the more into builds you are, the more difference it will make.

tofumon.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is you can level to 80 with minimal traits and still do just fine.

Except it’s boring as hell. Point of leveling up is to get cool stuff like skills/traits and you got that feeling with the old trait system starting from level 11. Now you don’t even start getting traits until 30 and you have to level up 6 times before another trait point comes your way. Feels way too slow.

I mentioned it before, and other people recognize it, too. Between 20 and 60, half the game, progression feels dead. Sure, you get elite skills and a single trait point at 30, but they’re meaningless in most cases. A minor trait and a long-cooldown, short effect ability? Pft. And then it’s nothing but a long weight. By 30, you have all the utility skills you actually want, so each level after 30 just feels painful.

Not that I’m a big proponent of the 1-point-every-level thing (that is so old-school WoW), but as it is, after the 20-30 stretch, this is what we have to look forward to:

Trait point (which may not even have an actual trait) every 6 levels.
Gear upgrade (catch as catch can) every 5 to 10 levels.
A dungeon unlock every 10 levels.
. . .And that’s about it.

And to top it off, I hit 48 last night in my ranger experiment. I didn’t have a Power trait opened, but that’s where I’m headed with the build. It was really …disappointing. The thing I was supposed to get anticipation out of was completely useless. And I’m still not done with Lornar’s Pass, which is what my friend needs for his trait.

It made me actually sit down and think “Is this game even fun anymore?”

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

tofumon.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is you can level to 80 with minimal traits and still do just fine.

Except it’s boring as hell. Point of leveling up is to get cool stuff like skills/traits and you got that feeling with the old trait system starting from level 11. Now you don’t even start getting traits until 30 and you have to level up 6 times before another trait point comes your way. Feels way too slow.

Well it’s sort of boring as hell either way, considering how many traits are passive. It’s not like most traits are more than just fire and forget anyway. And you know, it takes me like half an hour to get a single level. So it’s boring as hell for the 20 hours from 40-80?

I’m going to spent far more than 90% of the time on any character at 80th level. The traits haven’t particularly made leveling more interested for me in the past anyway.

you are wrong, some traits are more powerful than even many elites were. Some classes traits define builds more than others.
For example beastmasters signet, totally changes how you play and your synergies,
illusionary persona, gives you 1/4th more effectiveness per shatter, and allows you to shatter on the dime in aoe around you.
clone on dodge turns evasion and vigor into fuel for shatters
mantras that give 3 instead of 2
20% cooldown reduction is equivalent of many energy returning elite types.

fresh air for elementalist (refreshes lighting attunement on critical)
engineer swiftness/vigor on kit swap combo.
empowering mantras
chaotic interuption
prismatic understanding

some classes Traits are more integral than others, and not every elite made the build, many simply increased the effeciency of the build.

Point is playing with no traits, and playing with traits can be a very substantial difference in playstyle, and builds and definately makes many classes way more entertaining.

also leveling takes about 45 min to an hour if you play normally, especially in the middle levels.

This is why I used the word most. Most being the majority of.

But now you have a different situation. You have a few traits that rule the others. How hard are those specific traits to get.

I’m not defending the system, because I don’t like it. But I have leveled a character after the April first patch to check it out.

The way I play it made little difference. Obviously the more into builds you are, the more difference it will make.

i played it after as well, almost solely to test it out. I chose the class that least needs traits, warrior, and it is still overall an inferior experience, and i dont even hate WvW/jumping puzzles/eotm (so imagine for those that do?) etc.

The level push alone makes the whole game feel end heavy in a bad way. I did enjoy some events, but too few of them were well placed. The basic idea is not a bad one, the execution is extremely poor. Figuring out ways to deal with a bad system, its not that hard to deal with, but its still a bad system, in sooo many ways, which i have named before.
UI sucks
Understandability sucks
Adaptability sucks
replayability sucks
different modes people hate sucks
starting level of30 progression sucks
Odd points at weird levels sucks
more points at level 60+ sucks.
skill point reqs suck

its just really poorly done on many levels.

Vayne.8563:

This is why I used the word most. Most being the majority of.

But now you have a different situation. You have a few traits that rule the others. How hard are those specific traits to get.

I’m not defending the system, because I don’t like it. But I have leveled a character after the April first patch to check it out.

The way I play it made little difference. Obviously the more into builds you are, the more difference it will make.

I don’t know what classes/builds you use, but traits can have a huge impact on how a class plays and there most certainly are builds built around and/or demanding specific ones.

And I’ve said it before but I’ll say it here again. Any argument to the effect of “but you can just get the traits you need and ignore all the rest” does not actually say anything good for this system. And it certainly means it’s not working as intended. Promoting build diversity and all that.

Oh wow Trait point i forgot they where even in the game after i spent my first point until i was level 80 ! did all the starting zones so had all the skill points i needed and no need to go to that section again

And other than 1 trait i was not really missing out on much they seem to be very weak

Valky.2574:

Oh wow Trait point i forgot they where even in the game after i spent my first point until i was level 80 ! did all the starting zones so had all the skill points i needed and no need to go to that section again

And other than 1 trait i was not really missing out on much they seem to be very weak

just because the game is easy, doesnt mean traits are weak, just means the game is easy. They actually made it easier to balance out the loss of trait points, so there ya go.

Having now leveling a first character after the update, I feel like the new system is just kitten compared to old one. What was wrong with it? You get traits earlier and can experiment without having to go out of your way to do something horrid like a zone clear you wouldn’t normally do.

Now, I feel like the trait system could work for grandmaster traits only. Those are special, it’s alright that you need to do some big deed to get them. But simply for tier 1 traits? No way.

Traveller.7496:

Having now leveling a first character after the update, I feel like the new system is just kitten compared to old one. What was wrong with it? You get traits earlier and can experiment without having to go out of your way to do something horrid like a zone clear you wouldn’t normally do.

Now, I feel like the trait system could work for grandmaster traits only. Those are special, it’s alright that you need to do some big deed to get them. But simply for tier 1 traits? No way.

this i think is another major oversight, somethings are good for certain special things, but not good as a rule for everything else.
Having to do like map completion for crappy low level adept traits is a bit obnoxious. In GW1, you were hunting special EIite and powerful skills. Here, you are hunting basic traits.

bah bad design

I have FINALLY almost completed my character’s trait list, after well over a month ago I started posting here. I have two rares left to get, that I’ll no doubt have to buy because getting them alone will be kitten near impossible at best. Many of them in fact were so. The one I had to kill the Giant grub for in Eternal Battlegrounds WvW was the absolute WORST because nobody would help me, and until this week we have been green since Season 2 ended. So that one took me all the way up until this week to get, now that we’re finally blue and a few allies saw me struggling with it outside our keep. So that one in itself took several weeks to get.

Valky.2574:

Oh wow Trait point i forgot they where even in the game after i spent my first point until i was level 80 ! did all the starting zones so had all the skill points i needed and no need to go to that section again

And other than 1 trait i was not really missing out on much they seem to be very weak

Traits are awesome and I don’t know how you’ve been playing this game without them. I didn’t even really start to have fun until I unlocked traits.

KStudios.2850:

I have FINALLY almost completed my character’s trait list, after well over a month ago I started posting here. I have two rares left to get, that I’ll no doubt have to buy because getting them alone will be kitten near impossible at best. Many of them in fact were so. The one I had to kill the Giant grub for in Eternal Battlegrounds WvW was the absolute WORST because nobody would help me, and until this week we have been green since Season 2 ended. So that one took me all the way up until this week to get, now that we’re finally blue and a few allies saw me struggling with it outside our keep. So that one in itself took several weeks to get.

The fact that ANet put this is as a trait unlock suggests to me that either they are purposfully trolling us or purposefully want us to use gold and SP to buy whichever trait this belongs to. Anyone who actually does WvW would kitten all over anyone that on purpose fights the giant grub. We are there to take points, not fight garbage that will get us killed and hurt our server.

Seriously. What up ANet? How much more feedback do you need to realize this change was just wrong?

ozmaniandevil.6805:

KStudios.2850:

I have FINALLY almost completed my character’s trait list, after well over a month ago I started posting here. I have two rares left to get, that I’ll no doubt have to buy because getting them alone will be kitten near impossible at best. Many of them in fact were so. The one I had to kill the Giant grub for in Eternal Battlegrounds WvW was the absolute WORST because nobody would help me, and until this week we have been green since Season 2 ended. So that one took me all the way up until this week to get, now that we’re finally blue and a few allies saw me struggling with it outside our keep. So that one in itself took several weeks to get.

The fact that ANet put this is as a trait unlock suggests to me that either they are purposfully trolling us or purposefully want us to use gold and SP to buy whichever trait this belongs to. Anyone who actually does WvW would kitten all over anyone that on purpose fights the giant grub. We are there to take points, not fight garbage that will get us killed and hurt our server.

Seriously. What up ANet? How much more feedback do you need to realize this change was just wrong?

Eaxactly. WvW is my mainstay as well. That blasted grub has more HP than most legendaries.

So I was away for 2 months, I log in and I see the same kitten as before! Seriously? I am sure I have asked it before, but are you blind Anet? Do any of you play the game?

July.5361:

So I was away for 2 months, I log in and I see the same kitten as before! Seriously? I am sure I have asked it before, but are you blind Anet? Do any of you play the game?

Considering traits, jump puzzle inequity, PvP, WvW, traits, trait tasks, bugged content…

I’ll go with “No.”

Diba.4682:

They did not need to change the system, simply add onto it. They could have easily hit two birds with one stone by adding new traits and skills that would fill the void they had between level 60-to-80. Then they would have opened up new skills that everyone has been wanting and such.

This sounds like a great idea! Going after something after you are set up is fun and challenging. I sure do miss getting a point per level, because it felt like I was getting someplace.

In all honesty, the worst part is that this feature especially punishes people who are into the game. I’m not sure if it impacts new customers who started after patch as this is something they get used to. But for us, people who have literally finished story on 5 different toons and completed maps it’s utter kittening disappointment and nonsense theatrics that we don’t want to be subjected to.
Regardless, I choose to vote with my wallet.
Why invest money in a game where developer interaction and feedback is close to zero.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

Diba.4682:

They did not need to change the system, simply add onto it. They could have easily hit two birds with one stone by adding new traits and skills that would fill the void they had between level 60-to-80. Then they would have opened up new skills that everyone has been wanting and such.

This sounds like a great idea! Going after something after you are set up is fun and challenging. I sure do miss getting a point per level, because it felt like I was getting someplace.

Agree. They completely killed the sense of progress with this new trait system. Now it’s pretty much boring to level up for 5 levels and then you get a brief moment of excitement at that 6th level (that’s assuming you can even unlock the kitten things) and then back to the grind again. Point per level is much more rewarding and not having each trait locked was great.

So I’m certain at this point that ANet is flat-out ignoring the problems with traits now. I see devs posting in other threads while this one is still around, waiting for any kind of input, at least some confirmation that they know that there are problems with the new system and that they mean to correct them.

Their silence is their answer. They don’t care.

Just because you’re free to create your own topic, doesn’t mean they have to read it.

Rage all you want. Traits aren’t going to change. They’re in their meeting rooms right now discussing how to make things even worse than they already are. Trait changes happened in the same meeting room. Expect more to come.

Right, thats it, hit 30 on my new character, I’m out.

I really CBA to do this trait unlock system.
I’ve seen some kitten poor decisions by devs over the years, and obviously stupid systems put in place, but never have I seen a dev take a system that works and totally screw it over, then go silent on it, and leave it that way for months upon months despite overwhelmingly negative player feedback.

The fact this system got implemented at all is quite shocking, how professional devs could not spot what a kittening stupid idea it was, and the consequences of it destroys all faith I have for their abilities to take the game forward.

I’ll check back in 3months or so to see if anything has changed…but I doubt there will even be a response from the devs by then.

Oh well, I enjoyed the game once.

Mintyfresh.2539:

In all honesty, the worst part is that this feature especially punishes people who are into the game. I’m not sure if it impacts new customers who started after patch as this is something they get used to. But for us, people who have literally finished story on 5 different toons and completed maps it’s utter kittening disappointment and nonsense theatrics that we don’t want to be subjected to.
Regardless, I choose to vote with my wallet.
Why invest money in a game where developer interaction and feedback is close to zero.

I think its worse for new players. They may not know better initially but if older players find it a grind guaranteed that eventually new players will feel the same. Maybe not the first time out but by the third time . . . Older more established players that still want to start another character can simply mini-max their way through it by going directly at the traits they want or buying them outright (for example – I’ve got several hundred gold and a pile of about 300 skill point scrolls). Which in and of itself makes a mockery of the change supposedly being made to help “build diversity.”

At this point I’m not recommending this game to new players; or I should say my recommendation comes with more warnings than one of those drug adds on TV (may cause impotence, hives, rashes, dizziness on standing, do not take with alcohol or NSAIDs to avoid potentially life-threatening reaction, do not take if your pregnant or have ever been pregnant, etc., etc., ad nauseum).

I’m also considering cutting them off from my wallet – its going longer and longer between openings anyway. I may just start using only in game gold to buy gems if I really really want something.

This change is Exhibit A on the real weakness of ANet. When I started my IRL career I got very good advice from someone who had a distinguished long career in a tough political arena:

When you kitten up. And you will kitten up. Fess up. Apologize early and often. Make it right if you can and for gods sake learn from your mistakes.

Sometimes you can see a little of that kind of professionalism and service orientation in ANet – the changes in new season of the Living Story shows it, the CDI stuff that makes its way into the Skill Bar stuff shows it. But then you get: Roleplaying and megaservers, Guild missions and megaservers, this whole thread, and (my current pet peeve) traits, sigils and consumables that don’t work in the LS.

How 70 thousand replies and they have not a single comment on this.

Galphar.3901:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Hechicera.9816:

Elite farming in GW1 was fun. This is much less fun. I’m not sure exactly why. It seems to be more than one factor in play making it less fun.

A couple of things (IMO):

1) It might be less fun because it was added so late in the game’s life. Taking something away and then asking people to earn it back is very different that providing something for people to earn in the first place. I know that existing characters are grandfathered in, but people creating new characters have the experience of how it was handled previously to compare. The previous iteration of the trait system created an expectation of what was normal.

2) You could take a non elite skill in place of an elite in GW1. Not having capped a trait in GW2 might mean having an empty spot in your build.

Hasn’t affected me. Probably won’t that much. But I see why others might be unhappy.

But in Guild Wars 1, elites were much much more important and you were often seriously gimping yourself without an elite. Sure you could take a normal skill, but it meant nothing.

Think of builds made around discord, barrage, signet of spirits, unyielding aura…hell the builds were named after the elites.

Just because you could throw an inconsequential 8th skill in your bar, didn’t mean you weren’t seriously disadvantaged by doing so.

Correct Vayne, but also remember that Elite Skills were to be captured off of lvl20 Bosses and you had a quest to go capture an Elite(may not have been the one you wanted/needed but was still there). There are numerous traits in GW2 that are in areas with higher level mobs than when you should be able to get said trait. The Elite Skills caps were also not severely bugged or in some cases just non-obtainable like some traits in GW2.

You’re also forgetting that you could get max level within a few days if you needed to. Unless you’re going to spend a considerable amount of gold on crafting (which won’t even take you all the way any more), you’re not going to be getting these traits anytime soon. Capping elite skills was much more viable in GW1 as it was much more player-friendly in this aspect. It didn’t take at least a month of play to reach max level like in GW2. Some of the traits involve personal story, so you basically have to grind up to that level to get desired trait or find a buddy to run you through all your personal story missions (which would take forever, especially if you consider having to get to all the quest points in upper level maps). This system is so incredibly flawed for a game with a high level cap.

Another note— WHY can I not save trait builds? Seriously? The game has been out for almost 2 years not including beta. If I have a different build for roaming in WvW compared to large group play or builds for high end pvp areas, why can’t I save my traits in a template similar to GW1? Instead I have to sit there and refund all my traits and make my build from the bottom up again. You would think Anet would have thought of this, since it’s really not a complicated idea and they had a very similar build saving system for saved skill templates in GW1.

I’ve finally gotten around to playing a new character to the level at which i can start unlocking traits and find myself wondering why so many of the events and things I need to do are way above my level? It really makes no sense. I’m an older player who knows the game pretty well, but I can imagine that for a newbie this has got to be frustrating. That and the whole execution has a very hurried/generic feel to it with how one event unlocks a trait for every profession.

When I first heard about this change I loved the idea. I pictured it to be events I would complete that were level appropriate and sometimes even profession or trait appropriate. Not anything new. Just use existing events and npcs in the game that would teach us profession specific traits as we help them. Instead it feels like that when they chose events to tie to trait unlocks they just spun a wheel and picked whatever random event popped up. Honestly its not what I expected from Anet with all the things I’ve loved that they have added and continue to add as we go forward.

All my issues don’t even include how slow leveling now feels when i gain multiple levels and don’t gain a trait. And by the way I have no idea when I will gain a trait unless I wiki it. I might even be fine with that if the system wasn’t so bad in the other areas.

I just felt i needed to post this. I love this game overall and this system is embarrassing by the standards Anet have created for themselves. I hope they revamp it soon.

The big question: Was the new trait system in place on release day in China? Do they even know how it was before? How are they handling it? Doesn’t seem to be going to well here….AT ALL!

Jameson.5603:

I’ve finally gotten around to playing a new character to the level at which i can start unlocking traits and find myself wondering why so many of the events and things I need to do are way above my level? It really makes no sense. I’m an older player who knows the game pretty well, but I can imagine that for a newbie this has got to be frustrating. That and the whole execution has a very hurried/generic feel to it with how one event unlocks a trait for every profession.

When I first heard about this change I loved the idea. I pictured it to be events I would complete that were level appropriate and sometimes even profession or trait appropriate. Not anything new. Just use existing events and npcs in the game that would teach us profession specific traits as we help them. Instead it feels like that when they chose events to tie to trait unlocks they just spun a wheel and picked whatever random event popped up. Honestly its not what I expected from Anet with all the things I’ve loved that they have added and continue to add as we go forward.

All my issues don’t even include how slow leveling now feels when i gain multiple levels and don’t gain a trait. And by the way I have no idea when I will gain a trait unless I wiki it. I might even be fine with that if the system wasn’t so bad in the other areas.

I just felt i needed to post this. I love this game overall and this system is embarrassing by the standards Anet have created for themselves. I hope they revamp it soon.

that’s what they have been casually ignoring since 3 months and a half…

this is such a stupid mess.

Bringing Back Gw2 ATTRIBUTES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCpyhn2tRv8

We can only hope for something along this line.

The biggest reason why this system makes leveling so boring is the high level cap required to unlock traits, especially grandmaster traits. Tinkering with traits was what made leveling fun. Now that they’ve almost completely removed that from the leveling experience, it simply is not fun anymore to level up alts.

And what do you know, I play this game for fun.

Galphar.3901:

Correct Vayne, but also remember that Elite Skills were to be captured off of lvl20 Bosses and you had a quest to go capture an Elite(may not have been the one you wanted/needed but was still there). There are numerous traits in GW2 that are in areas with higher level mobs than when you should be able to get said trait. The Elite Skills caps were also not severely bugged or in some cases just non-obtainable like some traits in GW2.

On the other hand, 99% of bosses with cappable skills were soloable with heroes and henchmen. I never had to camp an event in GW1 in the hope that a critical mass of players would spontaneously form to help me get my skill. I would spend my solo time capping skills and my group time doing instances like Underworld and the EotN dungeons. Now instead of hunting down and capping skills from bosses I hunt for zergs to piggyback from. I have to say that I prefer the old way.

Kuldebar.1897:

Bringing Back Gw2 ATTRIBUTES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCpyhn2tRv8

We can only hope for something along this line.

OH MY GOD this would be awesome.

Bean Muncher.5197:

The biggest reason why this system makes leveling so boring is the high level cap required to unlock traits, especially grandmaster traits. Tinkering with traits was what made leveling fun. Now that they’ve almost completely removed that from the leveling experience, it simply is not fun anymore to level up alts.

And what do you know, I play this game for fun.

YES that’s my main gripe with the new trait system. It just makes the game too boring for too long until you get into the higher levels. However, if they implement an attribute system like in that video… that would be pretty sweet.

tofumon.5924:

YES that’s my main gripe with the new trait system. It just makes the game too boring for too long until you get into the higher levels. However, if they implement an attribute system like in that video… that would be pretty sweet.

I’ve only been playing GW2 for a couple of months (played GW1 extensively back in the day), but my experience is that more often than not I’m just equipping whatever trait I’ve unlocked that looks best. In many cases I’m even running around with empty trait slots simply because I haven’t unlocked anything. In GW1 I liked that I could simply purchase most skills in new towns and then go boss hunting for the elites later on to take my game to the next level. I also felt more inclined to experiment with the various traits because I would often run into areas that I couldn’t clear without a certain set of skills. In the current environment I feel like it doesn’t matter because I just latch on to a zerg and level effortlessly with or without traits. In GW1 I often customized builds for areas that I was trying to vanquish and/or solo farm. I feel like the GW2 trait system is a big step back from where GW1 was.

keep in mind, in GW2 traits are only useful for a specific range of things, in GW1 the attributes you can improve makes every single skill more powerful in that line.
that’s the biggest difference, also keep in mind that GW1 doesn’t have traits to be gin with, making the focus on builds allot more convenient because all you have to focus on are the insignia’s/runes on your armor, weapon mods and your skills.

it’s to late to alter the trait system, best they can do is remove the whole unlock crap and keep the traits in the profession from point 1.
better yet, i would love to be able to use master traits earlier, needing to grind to lvl 60 is not needed and has no benefit to the game.

Bernie.8674:

Now instead of hunting down and capping skills from bosses I hunt for zergs to piggyback from. I have to say that I prefer the old way.

Seriously here…..If a dev CAN NOT solo an unlock, it should be reconsidered. This hurts new and solo players. Great idea! REVERT

sorudo.9054:

it’s to late to alter the trait system, best they can do is remove the whole unlock crap and keep the traits in the profession from point 1.
better yet, i would love to be able to use master traits earlier, needing to grind to lvl 60 is not needed and has no benefit to the game.

are you saying it’s to late for them to revert this new trait system back to the old trait system the game came out with? Because you’re wrong. There’s no such thing as to late when dealing with programming. If you coded it to change, you can code it back to the original.

I think Anet will make new changes about traits and will not revert this mess good old way.Still there is no response from developers that makes me sad.
Get ready!

shadowraid.7365:

sorudo.9054:

it’s to late to alter the trait system, best they can do is remove the whole unlock crap and keep the traits in the profession from point 1.
better yet, i would love to be able to use master traits earlier, needing to grind to lvl 60 is not needed and has no benefit to the game.

are you saying it’s to late for them to revert this new trait system back to the old trait system the game came out with? Because you’re wrong. There’s no such thing as to late when dealing with programming. If you coded it to change, you can code it back to the original.

it’s to late to completely remove traits and make a better system that actually works in a wider aspect, they want to make it more like GW1 so a proper system is needed to make it that way.

sorudo.9054:

…
it’s to late to completely remove traits …

Yes, and thank God for that. I don’t need some new system similar to a game I never played. The original way GW2 traits worked was great. The only thing I like about this new system is the ease of changing the trait build. I would even be happy if they charged for that service, if they needed a way to make money, just as long as they put the old system back. I would also be OK with trait unlocks if the tasks were more appropriate for the trait level and/or were from a pool of tasks.

Some of my friends were talking about buying new character slots for some new roleplay characters. I reminded them of the trait system, encouraged them to look it up on the wiki, and pointed out that buying a new character slot is like supporting the new system.

I will continue to actively discourage people from buying character slots, and I will continue being unable to recommend the game, and after four months, I have serious doubts that Anet intends to do anything meaningful with this system.

What do you think about the difference between the old and the new?
I think the only improvement the new one has over the old one is that you can reset traits whenever and that you can get traits via events/exploration.

Other than that, I think the mere suggestion that getting 1 point per level starting with 11 was too complicated for new players to grasp to be utterly laughable. I know Guild Wars 2 is a pretty casual game and I suppose many players from the Angry Birds audience play it, but I do not think people are so stupid they would need 20 extra levels to figure out how to work the concept of getting 1 point every level and 1 passive ability every 5 points. Pushing it back to 30 just makes the entire gap from 10 to 30 pointless, since you only unlock 1 utility slot every 10 levels and… well, that’s pretty much all you’re doing. By level 20, I am sure everyone understands how utility skills work and wouldn’t get a mental breakdown if they had to choose a major trait and new utility skill at the same time.
I think the new trait system is pretty much an insult to our intelligence… and for anyone defending that 1 point instead of 5 is more practical… if you reset trait points you could simply click on the trait of your choosing and it would dump the required amount of points in it, whether it took the old 20 or the new 4. No biggie for higher levels, but impacts low levels severely.

I am fairly certain Anet are too stubborn to change the system back or at least lower the requirement back to level 10, since that’s how most developers are with these things because “effort” was put into making the changes and reverting even a part of them would mean that “valuable” effort has been lost… but even after months of having to deal with this new system, I simply cannot get over how much more satisfying spending 1 point every level was, as opposed to a gap between 10 and 30 and then every 5 levels.

What do you think?

I completely agree. The game is kind of a drag from level 20 to 30 because you’re barely unlocking anything except maybe a skill or two. And then after that you only get 1 trait point every 6 levels as opposed to unlocking a trait skill every 5 levels with the old system.

Somebody posted this video in the other trait thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCpyhn2tRv8

If that’s what they’re planning on doing, well… they better hurry up.

The new trait system gave me cancer. Please bring back the old one and add free reset to it while updating the traits regularly and you’re set for life. Why fix what isn’t broken?

Player.2475:

What do you think about the difference between the old and the new?
I think the only improvement the new one has over the old one is that you can reset traits whenever and that you can get traits via events/exploration.

Other than that, I think the mere suggestion that getting 1 point per level starting with 11 was too complicated for new players to grasp to be utterly laughable. I know Guild Wars 2 is a pretty casual game and I suppose many players from the Angry Birds audience play it, but I do not think people are so stupid they would need 20 extra levels to figure out how to work the concept of getting 1 point every level and 1 passive ability every 5 points. Pushing it back to 30 just makes the entire gap from 10 to 30 pointless, since you only unlock 1 utility slot every 10 levels and… well, that’s pretty much all you’re doing. By level 20, I am sure everyone understands how utility skills work and wouldn’t get a mental breakdown if they had to choose a major trait and new utility skill at the same time.
I think the new trait system is pretty much an insult to our intelligence… and for anyone defending that 1 point instead of 5 is more practical… if you reset trait points you could simply click on the trait of your choosing and it would dump the required amount of points in it, whether it took the old 20 or the new 4. No biggie for higher levels, but impacts low levels severely.

I am fairly certain Anet are too stubborn to change the system back or at least lower the requirement back to level 10, since that’s how most developers are with these things because “effort” was put into making the changes and reverting even a part of them would mean that “valuable” effort has been lost… but even after months of having to deal with this new system, I simply cannot get over how much more satisfying spending 1 point every level was, as opposed to a gap between 10 and 30 and then every 5 levels.

What do you think?

hahaha they through another new post in to the closet to be ignored until forgotten.

Guhracie.3419:

Some of my friends were talking about buying new character slots for some new roleplay characters. I reminded them of the trait system, encouraged them to look it up on the wiki, and pointed out that buying a new character slot is like supporting the new system.

I will continue to actively discourage people from buying character slots, and I will continue being unable to recommend the game, and after four months, I have serious doubts that Anet intends to do anything meaningful with this system.

The sad thing is I don’t actively discourage people. They ask me how the game is doing and I have to pitifully tell them the state of the game and all the changes as they laugh at me for thinking a FTP game that lets you buy gold with real money would not go down hill one way or another.

I bought 2000 gems and I dont want to use them to get new slots because of this traits unlock system QQ please change it back…

…Pretty please. for realz. I cant afford 43g and 360 skillpoints per trait unlocks :’(