Guild Wars 2

It is unfortunate the amount of people that think small guilds just should not be able to do the missions because of their size.

Oh the large guilds should have priority those small guilds are going to mess everything up if they start missions. They won’t even be able to complete them so why bother
I really hope that was not the intent for these missions- to make small guilds feel bad about wanting to be small.

My guild is successful as a small organizaition, but only has 20-30 actives. Only a few people play WvW regularly, so we have never spent on the Art of War influence track. I am a minor member of another guild with 80+ actives; they don’t WvW either, but they have so much influence that they bought all the WvW upgrades anyhow — after all, what else would they spend the influence on?

That means that larger guild can start running Guild Missions this month, but my guild won’t be able to.

Had we known even 4 week ago that Guild Missions would depend on Art of War, we could have started spending less influence on minor advantages and invested in the WvW upgrade track.

The larger guild also has more people with disposable (guild) income, because there are plenty who run dungeons regularly. My guild has very few people with more than a few gold, so it’s impractical to ask them to forgo rare weapons or armor in order to contribute to buying influence.

If it was ANet’s intention to release Guild Missions only for the largest guilds, then the current plan has succeeded. If their goal was to offer something to successful guilds of any size, then they have not.

Obviously, the game needs some sort of substantial “gate” to prevent someone with a personal storage guild from initiating guild events, but perhaps there need to be a few options for guilds with fewer than 40 actives.

Regarding all the “5 guys are no guild”-arguments:

As long as it is possible to create a guild all by yourself, there shouldn’t be any exclusion with regard to the Guild Missions and smaller guilds. If Arenanet wants Guild Missions to be startable by bigger guilds only, the creating of a guild should be handled like it’s the case in other game (e.g. WoW), because being able to create a 1-man guild suggests something different.

I’m not talking about the big challenges and stuff. There has to be exclusive content for huge guilds, but let smaller guilds also enjoy some of the starter Guild Missions without forcing them to grind / farm the hell out of everything for influence or joining other’s missions without getting a small reward for their own guild Say lvl 2 / 3 instead of 5 for the beginning … something which is not THAT far away.

I’ll just toss in my two cents here.

I’m more than a little disappointed that tier 5 of any guild upgrade is required. I know that some people are in huge guilds. And some people are in small guilds that play all day every day. But I suspect that there are many many more guilds (like the ones I’m in) that have done very little with guild upgrades. Especially something for PvE being based on the WvW track.

I knew that the guild missions would probably be more difficult for the small guilds I’m in. It seems that there’s a lot of cases where a number of people utilizing teamwork is the goal. That’s neat, and I’m not disparaging that. But I was expecting that it would be difficult simply because my small guilds would have to recruit random players in the area. They get bonuses, we get bonuses, everyone’s happy. Then I find out that we can’t even start a guild mission. Swing and a miss.

So this whole guild mission feature is an utter lack of anything useful to me. I would have been far more interested if the same time spent developing these guild missions was put into bug fixes. Or some other non-gated content.

I’m okay with other guilds having to spend points to upgrade Art of War. Maybe that will motivate PvE’ers to actually WvW.

Anyways, I kind it quite funny. PvE’ers actually are being told to upgrade PvP oriented influence tiers in order to do PvE. As a strict WvW’er watching PvE’ers scream and shout in outrage is funny, seeing as PvE has had updates and new stuff done in almost every patch, and WvW has been neglected thus far.

Why isn’t a 5man group considered a guild to some people? Destiny’s Edge is a 5man group and is the most “famous” guild in the game. Also, even Destiny’s Edge can’t do guild missions by Anets logic if you need Art of War 5, we all know they are a PvE Guild.

jazzllanna.1278:

It is unfortunate the amount of people that think small guilds just should not be able to do the missions because of their size.

Oh the large guilds should have priority those small guilds are going to mess everything up if they start missions. They won’t even be able to complete them so why bother
I really hope that was not the intent for these missions- to make small guilds feel bad about wanting to be small.

Nothing is stopping you from participating. You can simply ask a friend in a larger guild when the events are starting and let your guild members know. All you are not getting is guild merits

78g and 16 days is all that is stopping you from starting them yourself (excluding the influence cost of the event which is unknown). That’s for a “guild” of one person. You can divide that cost amongst your close knit friends in your small guild if you all think it’s worth it. That is also assuming you are starting the guild with 0 influence.

Should smaller guilds earn influence at the same rate as larger guilds?

• Imo, that doesn’t seem to make having a larger guild matter.

Should the influence cost or tier be lower so all guilds can afford do missions?

• That does seem right either…with a tier 3 requirement, all that is required is 8k influence or 8g and a week.
• Depending on the cost to start an event. that could mean events literally all day, everyday, from almost any guild in the game. How would that make your guild stand out at all?

Lastly, how would a guild of 2-4 people expect to tackle this large group content without the help of others around them? Especially for those that take place in multiple locations simultaneously?

I am elated that something now exists in this game that actually provides incentive for people to be in large OR serious guilds rather than small/casual ones. I hope more content for large/serious guilds is released in the future in order to keep them here. To those that are saying you need massive amounts of people to arm influence no thats not true though yes you do need to have a plan/approach, and to those that said O well my guild didn’t do X and X; that is entirely your guilds fault, you should have planned better or join a better guild. Also to the PvEr’s that are upset about Art of War lvl 5. The best way to make influence is PVE, the best way to make money is PVE, the ONLY way to get ascended gear is PVE. I’ll end my post here before the infractions start rolling in.

Vorch.2985:

jazzllanna.1278:

It is unfortunate the amount of people that think small guilds just should not be able to do the missions because of their size.

Oh the large guilds should have priority those small guilds are going to mess everything up if they start missions. They won’t even be able to complete them so why bother
I really hope that was not the intent for these missions- to make small guilds feel bad about wanting to be small.

Nothing is stopping you from participating. You can simply ask a friend in a larger guild when the events are starting and let your guild members know. All you are not getting is guild merits

78g and 16 days is all that is stopping you from starting them yourself (excluding the influence cost of the event which is unknown). That’s for a “guild” of one person. You can divide that cost amongst your close knit friends in your small guild if you all think it’s worth it. That is also assuming you are starting the guild with 0 influence.

Should smaller guilds earn influence at the same rate as larger guilds?

• Imo, that doesn’t seem to make having a larger guild matter.

Should the influence cost or tier be lower so all guilds can afford do missions?

• That does seem right either…with a tier 3 requirement, all that is required is 8k influence or 8g and a week.
• Depending on the cost to start an event. that could mean events literally all day, everyday, from almost any guild in the game. How would that make your guild stand out at all?

Lastly, how would a guild of 2-4 people expect to tackle this large group content without the help of others around them? Especially for those that take place in multiple locations simultaneously?

I am not saying that we could not get there as a small guild and buy the events But many of the comments in this thread have basically stated that it would be inconsiderate of a small guild to even start an event instead of a larger guild. The blog states that they purposely put the events in the world so that people could help and small guilds could complete them with everyone being rewarded.

My comment is based on what I have read from people here basically shaming smaller guilds for wanting to even attempt to start an event because it would take away from the larger guilds fun… that to me is not right and to see that mentality is upsetting to say the least.

Personally I plan on opening the event and trying to complete it as a small guild with the people around if that is upsetting to large guilds then so be it. I have just as much right to start the event and not sure why people are saying otherwise.

rizzo.1079:

Medazolam.3058:

rizzo.1079:

Medazolam.3058:

rizzo.1079:

I’m concerned that our guild has been hard gated out of building this new content ourselves. At our current rate of influence gain, without mass recruiting people which we will not do, we’re looking at 60+ days of influence gathering plus build time to get AoW to lv 5. Please reconsider introducing missions that smaller tier guilds can initiate, possibly starting around 1k influence to build. With that floor, even single person guilds can amass enough influence in a week or two of casual playing to at least initiate one mission.

Why dont you just buy influence with gold?

To some of us, 78g is quite a bit. Running dungeons and farming mats are both unfun, as well as TP flipping…as I said in the previous thread, if I wanted another job I’d get one, video games are supposed to be fun.

you said you would be locked out for 60+ days, even if some of your guild buys influence, that time will be cut way, way down. what does your guild have 10 members? can they each toss in a couple gold? if is that urgent and that much or a priority to you and your guild, you can make it happen.

5, among whom only I play for any significant amount of time each day.

I don’t mean to be rude, honestly, I have been in your shoes, but with that type of setup I’m not sure what you hope to accomplish with these missions.

My personal bank guild, which I only really use for the stash, has like 4k influence. Again, I am not trying to belittle you but even in a tiny guild you can do better than 5k influence in a few months.

For better or worse, ANet seems to be laying out the ground rules for guild participation, and you just fall below that. Sorry.

Vorch.2985:

Lastly, how would a guild of 2-4 people expect to tackle this large group content without the help of others around them? Especially for those that take place in multiple locations simultaneously?

Well, it would be a great recruiting tool to be able to pull people who are participating in the mission into your guild. I think was a pretty dumb decision by ANet, but it can’t be a simple mistake. Perhaps we don’t know everything and there will be multiple missions released at once spread across the different trees (after all they just mentioned the Bounty Mission here). If that’s the case I’m less concerned, but it seems silly of them to put the first mission they release in the WvW tree.

Vorch.2985:

jazzllanna.1278:

It is unfortunate the amount of people that think small guilds just should not be able to do the missions because of their size.

Oh the large guilds should have priority those small guilds are going to mess everything up if they start missions. They won’t even be able to complete them so why bother
I really hope that was not the intent for these missions- to make small guilds feel bad about wanting to be small.

Nothing is stopping you from participating. You can simply ask a friend in a larger guild when the events are starting and let your guild members know. All you are not getting is guild merits

78g and 16 days is all that is stopping you from starting them yourself (excluding the influence cost of the event which is unknown). That’s for a “guild” of one person. You can divide that cost amongst your close knit friends in your small guild if you all think it’s worth it. That is also assuming you are starting the guild with 0 influence.

Should smaller guilds earn influence at the same rate as larger guilds?

• Imo, that doesn’t seem to make having a larger guild matter.

Should the influence cost or tier be lower so all guilds can afford do missions?

• That does seem right either…with a tier 3 requirement, all that is required is 8k influence or 8g and a week.
• Depending on the cost to start an event. that could mean events literally all day, everyday, from almost any guild in the game. How would that make your guild stand out at all?

Lastly, how would a guild of 2-4 people expect to tackle this large group content without the help of others around them? Especially for those that take place in multiple locations simultaneously?

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7133/Februarys-Flame-and-Frost-Update-Detailed.html

A couple specific quotes form the interview for you….

<snip>For personal motivation, anyone who completes the rush at least once will receive a personal reward regardless of if they are in the sponsoring guild or not. Also, anyone who was in the guild that kicked off the mission receives an extra different type of reward, which can be traded in for a new category of personal guild rewards that can only be earned through the guild mission system.<snip>

MMORPG: What sort of rewards can guilds obtain by completing them?
COLIN: There are a number of new rewards available from this system, from items specifically for players who complete the missions to rewards and upgrades for the guild itself. Guilds have a lot of new unlocks and really great bonuses they can purchase as a result of completing these missions. For example, you can purchase cheaper waypoint costs for your entire guild while the bonus is active.
Personal reward options vary from luxury goods and new types of items, to fun guild related stuff. One example of a personal reward you can buy I think is especially fun is a transform that turns you into your guild’s banner. It’s perfect for taunting enemies from the walls of a keep in WvW and reminding them who just stomped their face!

I could be wrong but it feels like putting the Guild Bounties at AoW5 (a WvW track) is designed it encourage big WvW only guilds to get out into the PvE areas.
Maybe this is their answer to the complaints that a lot of the zones feel dead.

Give the big WvW guilds a carrot on a silver platter to entice them to make dead zones look like they’re alive again.

On a more positive note, I really like the idea, basically bringing back the Zaishen Bounty hunts from GW1 (which fyi, was added to GW1 in April of 2009, four years after the games release in April of 2005), I had a lot of fun doing those.
Pity they’re unreachable for us though, that’s disappointing (my small guild discusses Influence expenditure very carefully, and since we don’t WvW we consider AoW a waste)

And people’s solution to this is to leech off larger guilds events?

ScribeTheMad.7614:

And people’s solution to this is to leech off larger guilds events?

You wouldn’t be leeching. As far as I can tell, you helping wouldn’t decrease the guild who initiated the event’s awards. You would be helping.

jazzllanna.1278:

I am not saying that we could not get there as a small guild and buy the events But many of the comments in this thread have basically stated that it would be inconsiderate of a small guild to even start an event instead of a larger guild. The blog states that they purposely put the events in the world so that people could help and small guilds could complete them with everyone being rewarded.

My comment is based on what I have read from people here basically shaming smaller guilds for wanting to even attempt to start an event because it would take away from the larger guilds fun… that to me is not right and to see that mentality is upsetting to say the least.

Personally I plan on opening the event and trying to complete it as a small guild with the people around if that is upsetting to large guilds then so be it. I have just as much right to start the event and not sure why people are saying otherwise.

I just think if every guild ingame was able to create their event at 26 February there will not be enough space on Tyria or even enough people to do it (because every player was on trying to do their guild mission). And then after 1 week of playing guild mission, people will complain that the guild missions was too hard for them because they didn’t had more people to do it, super smaller guild couldn’t do it, or because they puted an restriction on guild missions per server and it was always full every time they tried to create, etc.

Why are small guilds complaining (5 or less) the game is full of content for you, give the larger people a bone please, something that can be done together.

Anyway if you can’t get 78 gold between 5(!) people in 16(!) days, I don’t know what to say. 1 dungeon run gives 1g6s at the absolute minimum.

If you want something, go out and do it sell some ectos or something – It’ll be over before you know it AND you can do guild events the whole time, they will be popping so often this month the servers will cry.

White Wolf.3291:

jazzllanna.1278:

I am not saying that we could not get there as a small guild and buy the events But many of the comments in this thread have basically stated that it would be inconsiderate of a small guild to even start an event instead of a larger guild. The blog states that they purposely put the events in the world so that people could help and small guilds could complete them with everyone being rewarded.

My comment is based on what I have read from people here basically shaming smaller guilds for wanting to even attempt to start an event because it would take away from the larger guilds fun… that to me is not right and to see that mentality is upsetting to say the least.

Personally I plan on opening the event and trying to complete it as a small guild with the people around if that is upsetting to large guilds then so be it. I have just as much right to start the event and not sure why people are saying otherwise.

I just think if every guild ingame was able to create their event at 26 February there will not be enough space on Tyria or even enough people to do it (because every player was on trying to do their guild mission). And then after 1 week of playing guild mission, people will complain that the guild missions was too hard for them because they didn’t had more people to do it, super smaller guild couldn’t do it, or because they puted an restriction on guild missions per server and it was always full every time they tried to create, etc.

Its no use, people are not going to accept the fact that you need man power to be successful at these guild missions, which have limited space to be activated, which is why the influence cost is so high… All there concerned about is the rewards and who’s name is on the banner. Unfortunately I think this was designed to make guild membership less fragmented over 100s of small guilds on a server… which is a positive thing… people that have 5 man guilds might just have to get over not have access to these missions and bonus’ or join a larger guild with their group of friends.

I’m gonna move my Guild Wars 2 icon to a less convenient spot on my start menu if Anet doesn’t resolve this, whatever this thing is we haven’t seen yet.

Vorch.2985:

If you do not want to pay or play to earn the influence needed, what is stopping you from cooperating with larger guilds doing the content?

The fact, that guild-specific rewards go only to the guild that started the event? So yeah, small guilds can help the big ones, but only the big ones will profit.

emikochan.8504:

Why are small guilds complaining (5 or less) the game is full of content for you, give the larger people a bone please, something that can be done together. Anyway if you can’t get 78 gold between 5(!) people in 16(!) days, I don’t know what to say. 1 dungeon run gives 1g6s at the absolute minimum. If you want something, go out and do it sell some ectos or something – It’ll be over before you know it AND you can do guild events the whole time, they will be popping so often this month the servers will cry.

Do you belong to a big guild? I think you should have to pay a tax too when you want to enjoy some new content.

Or how about this… since I won’t get to enjoy the new content AND the new rewards for at the very least 2 weeks (if I am willing to cough up gold and time to grind for it)… you should pay my tax for me when YOU get to experience it for the first time and get your guild only rewards.

Hey… it’s only 78 gold and your guild is big… shouldn’t be too much trouble for all you guys to raise that much for me during the next two weeks while im off stuck in a dungeon all day grinding gold to pay my new content taxes.

Have to pay tax to enjoy new content? Nothing is stopping you from participating in a non-guild member role, or even growing your own guild, or joining a larger guild except maybe some people’s leadership complex.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Have to pay tax to enjoy new content? Nothing is you to participate in a non-guild member role, or joining a larger guild except maybe some people’s leadership complex.

Yes… we will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Do you belong to a big guild? I think you should have to pay a tax too when you want to enjoy some new content.

Or how about this… since I won’t get to enjoy the new content AND the new rewards for at the very least 2 weeks (if I am willing to cough up gold and time to grind for it)… you should pay my tax for me when YOU get to experience it for the first time and get your guild only rewards.

Hey… it’s only 78 gold and your guild is big… shouldn’t be too much trouble for all you guys to raise that much for me during the next two weeks while im off stuck in a dungeon all day grinding gold to pay my new content taxes.

I’m going to start working on this, how to play the game without playing the game…? Sort of zen-like.

Way too much complaining.

Smaller guilds will still be able to participate in this content when another guild with the correct requirements starts a mission. Also, the other missions may have different pre-requirments.

This update brings more focus to all type of guilds. You want your small guild (5ish members) to be able to initiate the content? Then work together as a guild and get the influence.

Our preconceived perception was based on Colin’s statement that the first tier would be accessible to all.

And by Leah’s statement that even super small guilds could enjoy the guild event. (I don’t consider helping someone else complete their mission to fall into that category).

I do understand the appreciation for large events for large guilds. I am not trying to take that bone away from anybody.

Us small guilds just feel overlooked based on our preconceived perceptions. If the initial comments used to set the mental stage for the way this was going to be rolled out were more accurate, there would be a lot less resentment.

Presents on Christmas morning! “Oh, no. Sorry, those are all for your big brother”.

I feel like the best solution for this would be to add lower level instanced guild missions for the guilds that are super small (less than 30)… and leave the open world content to the larger guild with the larger pools… Non-guild members get to participate in open world guild events, and still earn guild rewards/merits with their small member count guilds.

Everyone has a means to experience content, and every has a means to earn merits, and everyone is happy… right?

Sowin.5187:

Us small guilds just feel overlooked based on our preconceived perceptions. If the initial comments used to set the mental stage for the way this was going to be rolled out were more accurate, there would be a lot less resentment.

Still, you will still be able to participate in the content so there should not be this much resentment for everyone.

emikochan.8504:

Why are small guilds complaining (5 or less) the game is full of content for you, give the larger people a bone please, something that can be done together. Anyway if you can’t get 78 gold between 5(!) people in 16(!) days, I don’t know what to say. 1 dungeon run gives 1g6s at the absolute minimum. If you want something, go out and do it sell some ectos or something – It’ll be over before you know it AND you can do guild events the whole time, they will be popping so often this month the servers will cry.

This post already answered that: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/2#post1489601

My concern as a guild leader of a group of 7 people with anywhere from 3 to 6 people online at the same time, is that there isn’t enough information to go by and that Anet is terrible at communicating anything of value. So they shed some light at the last minute but what does that entail completely? Is this going to be like the Ascended gear grind where it’s poorly implemented, ill thought out, and last minute rushed in a way that encourages more people to not participate than to actually participate? Where after the fact Anet admitted that the way they released it was bad?

There’s a lot of unknowns and waiting for the patch is a poor way of addressing concerns. What is Anet’s definition of a small guild? What metrics are they looking at when they determined this path? How does what they have been saying about ‘small guilds can do it too’ acclimate to ‘you need tier 5 of AoW?’ How are small guilds going to be encouraged to be sustained through this patch until the next one that offers smaller, simpler missions? Why is the first mission so far up a tree branch that doesn’t correlate to a PVE centric guild?

As people who like the game and have been interested in the guild missions, we’re left with not enough information and no one stepping up to the plate to answer them. This also doesn’t help the community stand together but further pushes others to alienate, belittle, and mistreat one another through assumptions, opinions, and educated guesses. I really just wish for once when Anet drops a bomb on people that they come out from the safety of their ‘boxes’ and have a sit down with us and not AFTER the fact like they did with the Ascended items.

Sowin.5187:

Our preconceived perception was based on Colin’s statement that the first tier would be accessible to all.

And by Leah’s statement that even super small guilds could enjoy the guild event. (I don’t consider helping someone else complete their mission to fall into that category).

I do understand the appreciation for large events for large guilds. I am not trying to take that bone away from anybody.

Us small guilds just feel overlooked based on our preconceived perceptions. If the initial comments used to set the mental stage for the way this was going to be rolled out were more accurate, there would be a lot less resentment.

Presents on Christmas morning! “Oh, no. Sorry, those are all for your big brother”.

It’s for everyone! Everyone can participate on them. Everyone can get a reward from them.

We may disagree on how large or small guilds should be accessing this content, but one thing we for sure agree on is, once again, ANet has completely dropped the ball on communicating properly. Look at what this one-off dev comment in the middle of the night has wrought.

Certainly ANet you can do better than this by providing us with proper, accurate information. It’s not the quantity of your messages, it’s the quality.

White Wolf.3291:

It’s for everyone! Everyone can participate on them. Everyone can get a reward from them.

Only the guild that starts the missions gets the reward that matters, Guild Merits.

Grim.9274:

White Wolf.3291:

It’s for everyone! Everyone can participate on them. Everyone can get a reward from them.

Only the guild that starts the missions gets the reward that matters, Guild Merits.

Personal rewards doesn’t matter to you, only guild merits?

CorruptedSave.2570:

Way too much complaining.

Smaller guilds will still be able to participate in this content when another guild with the correct requirements starts a mission. Also, the other missions may have different pre-requirments.

This update brings more focus to all type of guilds. You want your small guild (5ish members) to be able to initiate the content? Then work together as a guild and get the influence.

You’re complaining about people complaining? You must be in one of the big guilds that won’t be affected by this.

Mireles Lore.5942:

I feel like the best solution for this would be to add lower level instanced guild missions for the guilds that are super small (less than 30)… and leave the open world content to the larger guild with the larger pools… Non-guild members get to participate in open world guild events, and still earn guild rewards/merits with their small member count guilds.

Everyone has a means to experience content, and every has a means to earn merits, and everyone is happy… right?

From this thread…. containing different twitter updates:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Colin-tidbits-on-February-release/first

Colin: There will be 5 types of guild missions built with influence. Bounty is one of them, available in different difficulties #foodwars

Difficulty is not the issue here… its the fact that the guild only rewards are only available to mega guilds from the get go… setting a precedent that players will remember. Small guilds will suffer because players will know if they want to make more money and spend less playing the game, they should join the Borg… I mean a big guild where they can be a nameless drone…

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7133/Februarys-Flame-and-Frost-Update-Detailed.html

It is not the fact that small guilds cannot eventually grind their way into this content… it is that they may lose half their player base or more on the way. And that members of big guilds will be earning more money, spending less money, and enjoying exclusive items, bonuses, and content long before smaller guild members even get to. Unless they allow themselves to be assimilated into the collective.

The large guild only, type zerg is a real worry.

And as for the idea of asking about in the zone for help, I can hear the answers now, most will have the 2nd word “Off!”, the 1st I can’t repeat.

White Wolf.3291:

Grim.9274:

White Wolf.3291:

It’s for everyone! Everyone can participate on them. Everyone can get a reward from them.

Only the guild that starts the missions gets the reward that matters, Guild Merits.

Personal rewards doesn’t matter to you, only guild merits?

Those rewards will be the same as any other trash event +/- a big chest. Some porus bones, a few silver and couple hundred karma.

The whole small guild vs large guild argument isn’t the point, though for some reason a lot of people are focusing on it.

Many people (rightfully) expected small guilds to have easy access to the introductory missions, average guilds would have easier access to intermediate missions, and the mega-guilds would have easier access to the high-end missions.

This could have been done by starting the research at say Level 2-3 of something, then the next step up in difficulty would require Level 4 of something, and finally the massive missions would require Level 5 of something. To gate everything behind a level 5 research is what people have an issue with, especially the WvW track. This hurts small guilds which have not invested in AoW as well as future guilds that will be starting fresh.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Breytes.6901:

I have no qualms whatsoever in grouping up with anyone to achieve a goal. I find it highly enjoyable to be off on my own doing something and see a group of folks taking on an event. I will rush over to help out and then tag along with them sometimes for hours as we just fight our way through an area.
What my concern with this content is currently is that they have stated that small guilds can do the missions if we can recruit others to help us out. I have done the raiding scene, I detest any content that I can start on my own or with my very small group of gaming friends that leads to needing 10 to 40 people to see complete. I do not want to have to go through the hassle and drama of coordinating a raid anymore, this is one reason I love GW 2 and the dragon events. I can be in a massive group of heroes that comes together on its own sees a goal accomplished and then we all move on to be heroic as we see fit.
The folks I game with are the core I have gamed with for years, we have stayed together over 5 different MMO’s have been part of massive guilds and small, currently the latter, we have never balked at expanding but since coming to GW2 and leaving the drama of larger guilds in the dust we have seen no need to expand especially with the way GW2 has been developed we have not needed to do so and that has made our game time so very stress free and enjoyable.
If this content is for guilds to have something to do as a community then I hope it is developed in a way to accommodate as large a variety of guild sizes as possible, if on the other hand this is geared more towards larger “raiding style” guilds to give those folks that have been craving that raid feeling then I ask that it be stated as such. I just do not want to sit and get all excited for content that I will be unable to see because my guild is too small. I, like many others eagerly wait to see what is next on the horizon with this game and the excellent team that creates it.
I feel it would be a kindness to know which way this is actively being developed. And I know they stated that small guilds can do the content but I ask you, What is the metric by which a guild is measured as small? You and I may think very differently on this and Anet may think even differently still. Ultimately it is Anet’s perspective on what size a guild is to be labeled small and I fear that my little 5 man guild is well below that title and therefore not on the flow chart of deliverables when the development decisions are being made.

Sorry but if your guild is 5 man, thats a group not a guild, there does have to be some restriction. we cant have every small guild dropping events endlessly.

I am sorry but that is a very elitist attitude. Everything in this game can be accomplished with just 5 people, outside of major outdoor events, and even those events while needing the assistance of others give you FULL rewards for your time and participation. These new missions will only reward the guild that starts them with the FULL reward.
As I said I have no problem grouping with others to accomplish a goal, but when they announce content that is guild oriented and then say that I am required to have outside help to even see the beginning tiers then there is something wrong. I am not going to argue about the cost requirements to get to see them, many have made more eloquent points towards that than I can, however saying 5 people is not a guild and does not deserve to see content is ludicrous!

Do you even realize that the entire game is based around rebuilding a 5 man guild to face down the elder dragons?! That’s right Logan, Caithe, Rytlock, Zoja, and Eir are a GUILD! Lore alone in this game dictates that I am in a GUILD! I am not asking to be able to do events that require 30 people to complete, I am not saying that those types of events needing massive coordination should not be in the game. I applaud Anet for looking out for those that want to have that experience. I am saying that while they are looking at developing for larger guild content they also should focus some effort towards us small/tiny guilds.

My guild is a serious guild, we get together for WvW, Dungeons and all other aspects of PVE. We set up a schedule to farm for influence to advance our guild builds, we run for events to gather karma and dungeon tokens to kit ourselves out, and we pop into WvW to help represent our server…..

For the smaller guilds out there to ask to have the opportunity to gain these rewards is not a slap in the face to Anet or to anyone that is in a larger guild. It is simply us asking that Anet not lose sight of us in the push of new content and going the RAID OR DIE mentality that plagues other MMO’s that seem to think all content needs to have 15+ people to be completed.

Toxyn.9608:

The whole small guild vs large guild argument isn’t the point, though for some reason a lot of people are focusing on it.

Many people (rightfully) expected small guilds to have easy access to the introductory missions, average guilds would have easier access to intermediate missions, and the mega-guilds would have easier access to the high-end missions.

This could have been done by starting the research at say Level 2-3 of something, then the next step up in difficulty would require Level 4 of something, and finally the massive missions would require Level 5 of something. To gate everything behind a level 5 research is what people have an issue with, especially the WvW track. This hurts small guilds which have not invested in AoW as well as future guilds that will be starting fresh.

Well said Toxyn.

Drew.1865:

You’re complaining about people complaining? You must be in one of the big guilds that won’t be affected by this.

Nope. My guild has about 8 people. We are not unhappy about this as it still gives us a goal to work for.

Sowin.5187:

Toxyn.9608:

The whole small guild vs large guild argument isn’t the point, though for some reason a lot of people are focusing on it.

Many people (rightfully) expected small guilds to have easy access to the introductory missions, average guilds would have easier access to intermediate missions, and the mega-guilds would have easier access to the high-end missions.

This could have been done by starting the research at say Level 2-3 of something, then the next step up in difficulty would require Level 4 of something, and finally the massive missions would require Level 5 of something. To gate everything behind a level 5 research is what people have an issue with, especially the WvW track. This hurts small guilds which have not invested in AoW as well as future guilds that will be starting fresh.

Well said Toxyn.

I agree entirely.

Except… I will express one cautionary statement. We don’t know that everything will be gated behind a tier 5 upgrade… only that the first content available is gated as such… and that guilds with these upgrades already completed, or nearly completed in this tier will have access to the new reward system for a good amount of time before the rest can catch up.

And we can also extrapolate based on this and his statements that it will take literally months to unlock the 5 types of guild missions… also assuming costs are tuned for large guilds only due to being in a tier 5 wvw tree… that smaller guilds might take a year or more to do the same.

That is unless we want to blow a Legendary worth of gold to get there…

Tell me again what incentive any player has to belong to a guild that isn’t 50 concurrent players or more?

Breytes.6901:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Breytes.6901:

The folks I game with are the core I have gamed with for years, we have stayed together over 5 different MMO’s have been part of massive guilds and small, currently the latter, we have never balked at expanding but since coming to GW2 and leaving the drama of larger guilds in the dust we have seen no need to expand especially with the way GW2 has been developed we have not needed to do so and that has made our game time so very stress free and enjoyable.
If this content is for guilds to have something to do as a community then I hope it is developed in a way to accommodate as large a variety of guild sizes as possible, if on the other hand this is geared more towards larger “raiding style” guilds to give those folks that have been craving that raid feeling then I ask that it be stated as such. I just do not want to sit and get all excited for content that I will be unable to see because my guild is too small. I, like many others eagerly wait to see what is next on the horizon with this game and the excellent team that creates it.
I feel it would be a kindness to know which way this is actively being developed. And I know they stated that small guilds can do the content but I ask you, What is the metric by which a guild is measured as small? You and I may think very differently on this and Anet may think even differently still. Ultimately it is Anet’s perspective on what size a guild is to be labeled small and I fear that my little 5 man guild is well below that title and therefore not on the flow chart of deliverables when the development decisions are being made.

Sorry but if your guild is 5 man, thats a group not a guild, there does have to be some restriction. we cant have every small guild dropping events endlessly.

I am sorry but that is a very elitist attitude. Everything in this game can be accomplished with just 5 people, outside of major outdoor events, and even those events while needing the assistance of others give you FULL rewards for your time and participation. These new missions will only reward the guild that starts them with the FULL reward.
As I said I have no problem grouping with others to accomplish a goal, but when they announce content that is guild oriented and then say that I am required to have outside help to even see the beginning tiers then there is something wrong. I am not going to argue about the cost requirements to get to see them, many have made more eloquent points towards that than I can, however saying 5 people is not a guild and does not deserve to see content is ludicrous!

Do you even realize that the entire game is based around rebuilding a 5 man guild to face down the elder dragons?! That’s right Logan, Caithe, Rytlock, Zoja, and Eir are a GUILD! Lore alone in this game dictates that I am in a GUILD! I am not asking to be able to do events that require 30 people to complete, I am not saying that those types of events needing massive coordination should not be in the game. I applaud Anet for looking out for those that want to have that experience. I am saying that while they are looking at developing for larger guild content they also should focus some effort towards us small/tiny guilds.

My guild is a serious guild, we get together for WvW, Dungeons and all other aspects of PVE. We set up a schedule to farm for influence to advance our guild builds, we run for events to gather karma and dungeon tokens to kit ourselves out, and we pop into WvW to help represent our server…..

For the smaller guilds out there to ask to have the opportunity to gain these rewards is not a slap in the face to Anet or to anyone that is in a larger guild. It is simply us asking that Anet not lose sight of us in the push of new content and going the RAID OR DIE mentality that plagues other MMO’s that seem to think all content needs to have 15+ people to be completed.

Colin himself in a interview stated that a guild bounty mission will need multiple parties over several areas to complete guild specific objectives. This implys 10-15 people…. Its not the mentality of RAID or DIE that plagues this game, its the mentality that a 5 person guild should have the same capability and capacity to earn rewards as a 50 person guild that plagues this game. It isn’t that hard to recruit 5-10 more people for a cause, even if it is only for a day before they leave.

bluewanders.5297:

Sowin.5187:

Toxyn.9608:

The whole small guild vs large guild argument isn’t the point, though for some reason a lot of people are focusing on it.

Many people (rightfully) expected small guilds to have easy access to the introductory missions, average guilds would have easier access to intermediate missions, and the mega-guilds would have easier access to the high-end missions.

This could have been done by starting the research at say Level 2-3 of something, then the next step up in difficulty would require Level 4 of something, and finally the massive missions would require Level 5 of something. To gate everything behind a level 5 research is what people have an issue with, especially the WvW track. This hurts small guilds which have not invested in AoW as well as future guilds that will be starting fresh.

Well said Toxyn.

I agree entirely.

Except… I will express one cautionary statement. We don’t know that everything will be gated behind a tier 5 upgrade… only that the first content available is gated as such… and that guilds with these upgrades already completed, or nearly completed in this tier will have access to the new reward system for a good amount of time before the rest can catch up.

And we can also extrapolate based on this and his statements that it will take literally months to unlock the 5 types of guild missions… also assuming costs are tuned for large guilds only due to being in a tier 5 wvw tree… that smaller guilds might take a year or more to do the same.

That is unless we want to blow a Legendary worth of gold to get there…

Tell me again what incentive any player has to belong to a guild that isn’t 50 concurrent players or more?

Most big guilds will have more things maxed out as is so more then like you will find a guild on your server that doing these runs on day one. Newer guild and small ish guild will need to put in the work that big guilds who been arone for some time have already done. How fair would it be to these larger guild that have been here for a long time and not been the types that just come and goes as they please?

Side note for all the complains that are coming out will any one here say thank you if it works out? Just to come to the forms and only complain about things and not to say “i was wrong” seems a bit well wrong.

Just like any other MMO in the history of gaming. Bigger OR more serious guilds are capable of more things than smaller OR less serious ones. This argument that small guilds can’t benefit as much is ridiculous. There are many people in my guild with well over 1k gold. They didn’t get that because there in a big guild they got it because there serious, dedicated, organized players. If you have a “small” guild of 5-10 of such players this would be incredibly easy for you to research even WITHOUT buying influence. All the complaining in this thread is basically, “I want instant gratification” and “I don’t want to have to work for anything that requires more than 5-10 other people that play casually”.

@Jski Point missed again. It is 100% okay for large guilds to have an advantage in researching the high-end missions. What isn’t okay is that a portion of the playerbase will be excluded even from the very first missions. If the AoW Level 5 gate stays true, this is going to be a very disappointing patch for many guilds.

CC Charles:

What I sadly observe in this thread is a growing dichotomy in the playerbase, even before the content is released. GW2 is now just another MMO with a growing “haves and haves not” division.

It appears that ANet has managed, in the space of one day’s worth of marketing hype to foster the same negative community tensions that define at least 3 other MMOs, making it harder to differentiate these games in terms of customer experience and feel. Perhaps that was the goal. Perhaps it was entirely unintentional. Again, the third set of content added that does not appear to have passed a focus group test.

Happy to see that part of GW2’s constituency has meaningful content.

And saddened it appears to be coming at the expense of community feel.

The new content will probably be a mixed bag of players adapting and adjusting as the new reward mechansim placed in front of them demands. There will probably also be attrition, as expected. Hopefully the balance will even out over time. Or until the next “controversial” content is released. In the meantime, a wedge has been applied and the social dynamics have been affected.

ANet has lost credibility in their “community-feel” messaging. Which was a major positive marketing factor for GW2.

White Wolf.3291:

Grim.9274:

White Wolf.3291:

It’s for everyone! Everyone can participate on them. Everyone can get a reward from them.

Only the guild that starts the missions gets the reward that matters, Guild Merits.

Personal rewards doesn’t matter to you, only guild merits?

If personal rewards was the main concern how many people would be playing this game with the loot nerfs?

This is my post from a thread I started yesterday about this very thing. I guess I will post it here to try and get some answers. Thanks.

My concern(albeit minor) with this is that you can’t have your guild be super small and do this. It’s worded in such a way as to say when I read between the lines, “If you are a small guild you need to get more people to help you, and BTW, it’s also gonna take your guild WAY longer to earn the Influence necessary to do this.”
How am I coming to the conclusion that it will take a lot of influence? Colin Johanson did an interview in England the other day saying a lot of the guild mission types will take a long time to get. Influence is NOT pro-rated to the size of the guild. Smaller guilds can not get stuff done in the same amount of time that a larger guild can. I think that needs to change. Why? ArenaNet seems to be telling us two different things.
1.) Our Alliances from GWClassic are null and void. I am a Leader of a large guild on Sanctum of Rall. All of our Alliance guilds had to fold into my guild and not without haranguing. People get attached to their guilds. And for good reason. They had to join my guild as it was the lead Alliance guild and I couldn’t even be a member of all 10 guilds that were in our Alliance in GWClassic in GW2. So instead of picking and choosing, we all folded into 1 guild. That leaves people disgruntled and for good reason. I don’t know why Alliance chat was not a no brainer decision for GW2. It should have been. More so now that we have a guild mission system.
2.) ArenaNet is basically saying if you have a small guild and want to do guild missions you need help and if you had a large alliance in GWClassic, you need to fold all of that into 1 guild and then ArenaNet doesn’t even give us the option to have Guild parties of more than 5 people in the open world sans a Commander title that costs 100 gold.
3.) Why are there no guild options to form larger parties for PvE outside the Commander title which is supposed to be for WvW? With these guild missions spanning multiple maps it seems like the best way to handle that is to give us leaders tick boxes that let us choose who can lead larger forces in PvE. At the very least, why can’t we just have an option to have guild members appear on our maps and mini maps that we can turn on or off as we desire?
I was going to put this in the Suggestions section, but it presents more questions than actual suggestions. Thanks for your time, and thank you for any candid answers to my queries. My Alliance and I are actually really looking forward to this content as it is going to be a blast. We are the right size for it. I am just trying to look out for the smaller guilds that this doesn’t seem to want to cater to. Maybe in the future these events can dynamically size to fit the needs of smaller guilds while at the same time give guilds the option to track their players for these missions to help facilitate larger forces across multiple maps, and at the very least for large map completion events. It’s not unusual for it to be very frustrating for us to have 25+ people doing a map clear on an evening and not be able to all keep track of each other. Letting us see each other by dots on our map would assuage that issue completely.

goldenwing.8473:

CC Charles:

What I sadly observe in this thread is a growing dichotomy in the playerbase, even before the content is released. GW2 is now just another MMO with a growing “haves and haves not” division.

It appears that ANet has managed, in the space of one day’s worth of marketing hype to foster the same negative community tensions that define at least 3 other MMOs, making it harder to differentiate these games in terms of customer experience and feel. Perhaps that was the goal. Perhaps it was entirely unintentional. Again, the third set of content added that does not appear to have passed a focus group test.

Happy to see that part of GW2’s constituency has meaningful content.

And saddened it appears to be coming at the expense of community feel.

The new content will probably be a mixed bag of players adapting and adjusting as the new reward mechansim placed in front of them demands. There will probably also be attrition, as expected. Hopefully the balance will even out over time. Or until the next “controversial” content is released. In the meantime, a wedge has been applied and the social dynamics have been affected.

ANet has lost credibility in their “community-feel” messaging. Which was a major positive marketing factor for GW2.

Do you have any suggestion?

Drew.1865:

White Wolf.3291:

Grim.9274:

White Wolf.3291:

It’s for everyone! Everyone can participate on them. Everyone can get a reward from them.

Only the guild that starts the missions gets the reward that matters, Guild Merits.

Personal rewards doesn’t matter to you, only guild merits?

If personal rewards was the main concern how many people would be playing this game with the loot nerfs?

My main concern is having fun playing the game =) I think it’s the main concern to many people!