Guild Wars 2

I won’t join a larger Guild just to reap the benfits (no offense to good, huge Guilds.) I won’t simply take part in them. Consider myself excluded from this new content. It’s a values thing, and yes, I deem it wrong and unwise, whoever thought of it. I will stick to my tiny Guild, thank you very much. We have unlocked quite a few things for our small population. I won’t “sell out” for what FOR ME (not necessarily others) would be selfish gain.

I don’t think they will back down since they have tied big rewards to these missions, and they probably feel that any less influence requirement would “cheapen” the acqusition of that gear. However, it’s honestly just plain wrong, and I would have preferred NO access to the gear while being able to explore the new Guild missions.

If you want to reward big Guilds, that’s fine, but don’t exclude the smaller ones from everything, I honestly think this decision wasn’t given much thought (no offense, developers), or at least not enough playerbase perspective (another “mistake”, so to speak.)

This patch was mostly good, though-it’s jsut that the Guild Mission design decision has huge question marks all over it. It’s perplexing to believe someone thought that was a good idea… and again, do not feel offended, you who worked on them, it just doesn’t make sense to many of us.

I simply don’t understand the logic behind there being a “master unlock” to the whole system, placed in one specific tree existing guilds may or may not have.

The costs in influence, per tree, are fine, but the idea that you have to do bounties before picking anything else doesn’t make much sense.

What makes L1 bounties so special that everyone simply has to do them in order to get other mission types they desire?

Why not just scrub the commendation costs on the L1 versions of all the other types, and let guild pick and choose which type of missions they want to prioritize from the start in stead of forcing everyone in to a single mission type before allowing any choice of the others?

Bounties in AoW is fine, but why force people to do bounties before unlocking rush, trek, puzzle, etc. This is just going to make bounties completely overfarmed and not very much of a “hunt” at all, as every single guild in existence on your server will all be after the same handful of NPCs

Next week mapchat will have it down to a science.

This “master mission type” makes no sense. The ascending tiers per mission type, and placing missions in various trees makes sense. Requiring guild merits to unlock higher tiers or “advanced” versions of similar content (Bounties>Challenges) makes sense. Locking the whole thing behind one specific mission type from the jump makes no sense.

PopeUrban.2578:

The costs in influence, per tree, are fine, but the idea that you have to do bounties before picking anything else doesn’t make much sense.

What makes L1 bounties so special that everyone simply has to do them in order to get other mission types they desire?

It does make sense. As of now, the bounty missions seem to crash the client for everyone in the mission. If this is full of critical errors, imagine what the other mission types must be like. It’s a virtual still working on it access gate.

Source: https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Gildenmission-Kopfgeld/first#post225117

I understand the need for new content to keep players interested. However, currently the requirements for Guild Missions allows only access to people in large guild on the same server with lots of resources, and a willingness to do both PvE and PvP.

The sheer amount of influence needed is a huge obstacle for anyone in a small guild, a new guild, or even just a PvE focused guild. My guild is small, but we play daily, with every member having put at least 1500+ hours into the game since launch. We would like to participate, but are being barred because we didn’t do WvW, so lacked Art of War 5, and because we are a small, dedicated group versus a massive unorganized borg conglomerate who churns out influence points.

The implementation of the content is arbitrary and illogical, needing 5 tiers into a WvW Guild Research Branch in order to access open-world PvE content. Altogether, the half-million influence points just further drive people into clumps just to even access the content.

tl;dr I have to jump through hoops just to PLAY THE GAME.

Kane Fire Blade.7482:

people say they could fix this but the damage has already been done! Loads of small guilds have already been broken! It’s to late they have already split are community into a cut throat guild vs guild game if your not in a huge guild you lose out its as simple as that!

The damage is done constantly, over and over, and the playerbase eventually settles right back into the same three categories:

- The ones who stick to their promises and leave the game for good.

- The ones who stick around bemoaning the same point they found objectionable every chance they are allowed to get a soapbox.

- The ones who shut up and play the game, either reconciling their distaste for the content somehow or actually enjoying what’s there for them to do.

This pattern of events is repeated, over and over again. It’s happened over and over again, in every MMO, every game which gets updates, or even back further . . .

(See if the quote “I really liked the Ultima series until…” can be finished and you’ll understand what I mean when I say it’s not restricted to MMOs.)

Alas, this isn’t as good as I hoped and the bright side isn’t quite as bright once I could actually see the released format. The biggest thing is that “my guild will get to see it eventually, we’re not in a rush”.

And don’t say people who want to stay in smaller Guilds are not dedicated players, please. There are different types of personality types and personal preferences in this game, and not everyone is the type to want to be on a huge Guild (I don’t begrudge anyone’s right to do so, but people shouldn’t feel FORCED to join a big Guild to enjoy any content.)

Riduy.1682:

I understand the need for new content to keep players interested. However, currently the requirements for Guild Missions allows only access to people in large guild on the same server with lots of resources, and a willingness to do both PvE and PvP.

The sheer amount of influence needed is a huge obstacle for anyone in a small guild, a new guild, or even just a PvE focused guild. My guild is small, but we play daily, with every member having put at least 1500+ hours into the game since launch. We would like to participate, but are being barred because we didn’t do WvW, so lacked Art of War 5, and because we are a small, dedicated group versus a massive unorganized borg conglomerate who churns out influence points.

The implementation of the content is arbitrary and illogical, needing 5 tiers into a WvW Guild Research Branch in order to access open-world PvE content. Altogether, the half-million influence points just further drive people into clumps just to even access the content.

tl;dr I have to jump through hoops just to PLAY THE GAME.

I just want to ask you what kind of pve activities large guilds can do? before the patch nothing
the small scale guild can do everything from dungeons to fractal to event, they dont have pb to organize this but for large guild 5-10 people will be the max and 200-300 will feel like putting behind…

so SHARE THE CAKE AND DON’T ONLY THINK ABOUT YOURSELF

Why does the guild mission system favor large guilds over small ones? Sure we all have the same limits, but the cost of getting all the missions unlocked for a small guild is a lot, lot harder then for a large guild.

What is the purpose of the unlock in the first place, it seems like you should want people experiencing the new content.

Rather than bloat this thread I’ve made an official suggestion on how it should be structured
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-Guild-Missions-Should-Look/first#post1520296

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Like I said, I must be either a moron or in need of different meds, because I don’t see an insurmountable problem.

I see, so it isn’t insurmountable. But… it IS a problem… and who wants to play a game that gives them more problems? If it is dull, grindy, and just not fun then our question is not “How difficult is it to overcome?” but “Why subject ourselves to this?”

and why there is no dungeons for big guilds? i want to have fun with my 100 guildies and bring them to coe every nightbut can only go with 4 of them
and why pve content is designed for small guild?

lets make a deal anet give you very easy guild mission unlock and we get large group dungeons but you will complain again right?

my concern, as I think most of the player base, from what I’m reading is the ‘smaller guilds’ I’m defining ‘smaller guilds’ as anything under a 15 active members.

Now the influence to get to the bounties is one thing. However, on a completely different note of the small guilds that want to complete content, is that if a guild wants to participate and get any credit, personal or guild, they have to have the guild event active in their own guild. Meaning, if a small guild wants to team up with a large guild, they still must go and purchase the event. explained here: (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-bounty-hunt-Mission).

In essence for those small guilds that only have 1-2 days where enough of their player base is on to complete a guild mission of any type, they cannot go and get the rewards for the guild by participating or teaming up with another guild. Thus, having members from small guilds not reap any benefits, personal or guild wise, in any manner until they can harness the influence to purchase the guild event. Once again, giving the feeling that if your in a small guild and don’t want to join a large guild, you don’t get any benefit in the new guild mission content for any foreseeable future.

I was at least hoping to be able to participate in the events with other guilds even if my small guild hadn’t purchased the upgrade. But besides getting normal event credit, there is no reason to team up with larger guilds until we have accumulated the influence needed to even start the guild missions.

If this is al correct, I will say I’m disappointed in this, as will be some time before a small guild can even hope to start doing the puzzles, rushes, treks, etc

Riduy.1682:

tl;dr I have to jump through hoops just to PLAY THE GAME.

Remember, Guild Wars 2 is a game where you “don’t have to wait to have fun…”

The ascended items that are apparently available via guild missions, are they drops or are they bought via these new commendations or whatever they are?

No words, only laughter at this “content”.

rootnode.9546:

PopeUrban.2578:

The costs in influence, per tree, are fine, but the idea that you have to do bounties before picking anything else doesn’t make much sense.

What makes L1 bounties so special that everyone simply has to do them in order to get other mission types they desire?

It does make sense. As of now, the bounty missions seem to crash the client for everyone in the mission. If this is full of critical errors, imagine what the other mission types must be like. It’s a virtual still working on it access gate.

Source: https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Gildenmission-Kopfgeld/first#post225117

Well at the very least when we start them next month they’ll probably be patched then, hehe.

I’m not bemoaning the progression here, but I am bemoaning the homogenization of guilds and their upgrade paths. Whatever happened to the idea that guilds were allowed to focus on the trees that were important to them? On the surface this system does a pretty good job of varying up mission types per tree to represent their upgrade path…

Until you look at the commendation requirement setups and realize that the multiple upgrade trees are now effectively tiered in to “Do these trees in this order to unlock these missions in this order”

That’s sad.

What could have been a system that, at launch, saw a lot of different guilds doing a lot of different types of content based on how they had prioritized their upgrades is in stead a system that has everyone complaining they have to research Art of War. Furthermore, the guilds most likely to do said missions at all are the exact same guilds that probably haven’t researched that tree at all.

This isn’t “making every tree valuable to every guild” it’s, literally “Making the art of war tree a mandatory upgrade for guilds that never claim things in WvW, and make all of their previous upgrades null and void in the mission system until they do so.”

Art of War was on my list anyway. I wanted the guild siege. What I don’t like is being told I need to upgrade it before I can run Rush or Trek or other things my members were a lot more excited about than bounties.

I should have had the option to say “Well cool, we’ll start doing rush and you guys can tell me which type of mission you’d like to start unlocking next”

They would have said, almost certainly “BOUNTIES!” and we would have happily marched up AoW while enjoying and perfecting our first type of mission.

In stead, I’m stuck saying “Uh, sorry guys, remember when we did that massive farm for the guild bank? We need to do another one to unlock bounties, and we need to do bounties to unlock rush.”

“So no Rush?”

“Not this month guys.”

As a 3-man guild i fully support the way anet is handling this. we have almost every single upgrade already including AoW5. The only real upgrades we’re missing are the last few treasure trove ones that none of us need between the restriction on bound items in there and almost all of us having 8 bank panes.

Despite being extremely few in number we’re still earning upwards of 800-1300 influence/night (roughly 4 hours).

If everyone had remembered to party up before doing anything, none of the “big guilds” voicing concerns would even be doing so at all.

Fortuna.7259:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Like I said, I must be either a moron or in need of different meds, because I don’t see an insurmountable problem.

I see, so it isn’t insurmountable. But… it IS a problem… and who wants to play a game that gives them more problems? If it is dull, grindy, and just not fun then our question is not “How difficult is it to overcome?” but “Why subject ourselves to this?”

I didn’t say it was a problem in that post.

I say it’s one now, but the question you pose is valid. “Why subject yourselves to this?” I ask myself that every time I click on my bookmark for the forum, you know . . . I know I will see mostly negativity and things that make me crack molars trying not to rage-post.

So why do I bother? In the hopes there’s this one interesting thing that gets my attention, that makes me smile. Something to make my day go a little bit better.

That’s why people play games even if they have to wade through some sewage to get to what they want to enjoy. It’s something to make their day go a little better.

I’ve run my guild since launch, at launch we were roughly 50 of mine and my partners close friends from across the MMOs we have played. Sadly, because we came from a raiding background, most left within a month or two. We were left with a very quiet guild of around 5.

We used our influence wisely, and we did the majority of all the guild upgrades. Recently, about a month ago, we decided to go all-out with a couple of in game friends, and now we are a guild of around 30, I’d say we have between 15 and 25 on a night, mostly for organised WvW raiding.

When we heard about the guild missions, we were worried that we wouldn’t get anything to help in our WvW focused guild. Today when it was brought up in Guild chat about the costs, those online put what spare cash we had together to get the influence we needed, about 4 to 6 of us.

We were delighted when we logged in to find that Art of War provided up with a 24hr reduced repair costs buff, fantastic for us and we immediately started with the Guild Bounties upgrade, and set off into the wilderness to find some of the spawn points for them.

My point is, it’s about point of view. We have been a 5 man guild since not that long after launch, and we were ready for this. Our guild upgraded, and the influence needed acquired – we also ran full guild buffs on Garrison today. Our influence outgoings were crazy. It was exactly what we wanted from it.

I still consider us a small guild, and I know that we won’t be the only ones perfectly happy with the update. I sympathise guys, I know some two man guilds etc and our initial reaction in guild chat was that we were looking forward to share with the Gunnars Hold community – we are sad that we can’t share the rewards – I would like to see this change.

Be patient, Arena Net are building for the long term. This is something you need to work for, to get that feeling of achievement when you finally get there. I feel for those guilds who had to move from dying servers and leave their hard worked on upgrades behind though.

Long wall of text for 2am, (: Aisi x

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fortuna.7259:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Like I said, I must be either a moron or in need of different meds, because I don’t see an insurmountable problem.

I see, so it isn’t insurmountable. But… it IS a problem… and who wants to play a game that gives them more problems? If it is dull, grindy, and just not fun then our question is not “How difficult is it to overcome?” but “Why subject ourselves to this?”

I didn’t say it was a problem in that post.

Saying that you don’t see an “insurmountable problem” is conceding that it is a problem because otherwise you would just say you don’t see a “problem”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I say it’s one now, but the question you pose is valid. “Why subject yourselves to this?” I ask myself that every time I click on my bookmark for the forum, you know . . . I know I will see mostly negativity and things that make me crack molars trying not to rage-post.

So why do I bother? In the hopes there’s this one interesting thing that gets my attention, that makes me smile. Something to make my day go a little bit better.

That’s why people play games even if they have to wade through some sewage to get to what they want to enjoy. It’s something to make their day go a little better.

Yup, that is what everyone wants in their game. Sewage. And we all want a White Knight in the forums to wade in, taste it, and tell us it is gravy. Or at least that it is possible to swim across without drowning — because you actually described it for what it is – sewage (although apparently sewage is not actually a problem after all). Thank you.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

*We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild.

The problem is that you’ve made every line aside from art of war less valuable by locking every type of mission behind the initial completion of bounties. You haven’t made art of war more valuable to the players most interested in the guild missions. This line has the exact same WvW fort bonuses it has always had. You’ve simply tacked it on to the front of the system so that they can’t do any of the other mission types until they’re done researching bounties.

You haven’t added value to War for guilds that didn’t find it valuable before. You’ve removed value from every other upgrade tree from the mission system, because without upgrading war first, none of their missions can be unlocked.

Furthermore, you’ve done it without adding anything at all to War to reward the single manditory upgrade line behind which all missions lie.

This is a bad implementation. it makes no sense to gate the whole system behind a single upgrade line, and only then allow the guild to choose where to prioritize. Either make it linear or make it nonlinear.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

As this has probably been buried deep by know, I would like to quote Izzy again. I put aspects of his post that touch on the actual discussion in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

All I can say is… WOW… how to totally miss the point by a country mile.. or perhaps a Global mile may be more apt.

Releasing content that all but excludes small guilds is just dumb.

So, when you make bold statements like “PLAY YOUR WAY”, what you really mean is play your way but you cant play this or that cos you dont fit the mandate we have designed our incredible GATED guild system around…

So if small guilds prefer only to dabble in WvW or PvP, we now have to play your way in order to even attempt to be included – ooh that’s right in a month, 3 months, 6 months, a year you might of thought up some other idea to maybe reintrouce some of the small guilds into the guild system…
Now your telling us small guilds (you know, ones that might be a closed guild of say 2-6 friends & family members or are a hardened bunch of MMO gamers who have been round the block, know each others game and like to keep it close nit with a view to only recruiting quality players that we get to know over time ingame), now have to become one of the desperado guilds who constantly have to spam Map chat repetitively to pick up the “anybodies” from their /whisper me for immediate invite dribble …. NO THANKS!

I prefer my small guild of trusted players with no drama, all play regular and have voice chat for some social interaction…. I will leave the “we take any player.com” guilds to flush this content away.

I have been pretty forgiving and supportive of ANET since before launch but if I am honest this “exclusive” content update and continual poor patching quality has started to take it toll on me to the point I can hear the death knolls – I’ve tried to fall in love with GW2 like I did with GW1 but excluding guilds of any size from guild content / guild rewards is just plain dumb.
All you had to do was create a new Guild Line to measure progress/unlocks etc which had no bearing on whether the guild played WvW or PvP or PvE so that it could pcil and choose its guild goals and then utilise difficulty scaling based on the number of players in a group who are guilded or who are in the relevant istance/event zone etc and if necessary scale the reward back with some form influence / loot penalty…. course that would be too sensible an approach I guess.

You have gated the guild system and the game content and I hope it leaves much egg on face.
Sadly for me its time to head back to my MMO of choice (No I dont mean WoW Panda either) where guilds get to enjoy all content, no matter what their size, skill level and commitment to certain game functionalities.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

As this has probably been buried deep by know, I would like to quote Izzy again. I put aspects of his post that touch on the actual discussion in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Closing one thread to restate an old post that wasn’t very helpful to start with?
What are you guys doing over there? Do you really not see what you are doing?

I noticed the game went on sale again, as a B.A major i know that companies usually do that when they need to generate more income. If u need to do this what do u think will happen if u don’t address our concerns at all they game servers will die and and u will be forced to make it ftp…

I’m part of a 21 members guild. It’s a very casual guild and most people come and go; they play when they have time. Some people play daily, others play weekly, others are gone for months and then they’re online 4 hours a day over two months straight. It took us until January to unlock all the vault upgrades (with the deep cave and everything). We just play for fun and not to grind, so we don’t optimize our online time to grind every little bit of influence. We don’t want to play a numbers game just to be able to access the new content.

The guild missions content seem to be tremendously fun but we won’t be able to do any of this. Since we’re not a PvP or WvW guild, we currently have only Architecture Lvl 5 and Politics Lvl 2. We should invest all our influence into the Art of War line, that serves basically no purpose to us at all, plus 30K influence in Guild Bounties Unlock. That’s 66500 influence. The Deep Cave upgrade cost 56500 (with all other vault upgrades : stash and trove). September-January : 56500, now we need 66500. Less and less people are playing so we don’t have as much activity in the guild as on release day. Do the math. I’ll be glad to comment on that new content… well maybe at Christmas. Over that time, shame on us if we dare spend any influence on anything else. If I see one officer spending influence on a karma banner they’ll get a slap for wasting our precious required for those ludicrous unlock expenses. So, on top of blocking us from the new content, you’re telling us to stop using any guild consumable or upgrading anything else at all if we just hope to reach that content before next year.

Small guilds get the shaft and it will be either an exile towards bigger guilds or simply small guilds stopping playing the game. We could do pretty much anything in Guild Wars 1 with a small guild. It’s really not the case now in Guild Wars 2 and that’s VERY disappointing…

— A long time GW/Anet fan just getting more and more disappointed by the overall direction the game is taking.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

As this has probably been buried deep by know, I would like to quote Izzy again. I put aspects of his post that touch on the actual discussion in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Sure, that post describes your goal. And this discussion is about the actual results, so that you can see where the disconnect is.

Fortuna.7259:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

As this has probably been buried deep by know, I would like to quote Izzy again. I put aspects of his post that touch on the actual discussion in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Sure, that post describes your goal. And this discussion is about the actual results, so that you can see where the disconnect is.

agreed

So, if a large guild begins an event on the landscape and others come along and participate, do they get any rewards at all for playing or is it just the satisfaction of knowing you’ve helped a large guild, that doesn’t need any help at all anyway, finish their event?

Or have I misunderstood and all the guild events are instanced, so this is a moot point?

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, if a large guild begins an event on the landscape and others come along and participate, do they get any rewards at all for playing or is it just the satisfaction of knowing you’ve helped a large guild, that doesn’t need any help at all anyway, finish their event?

Or have I misunderstood and all the guild events are instanced, so this is a moot point?

its in the open world and if u decide to help then u get the same rewards as u would from any dynamic event

Celtic Lady.3729:

So, if a large guild begins an event on the landscape and others come along and participate, do they get any rewards at all for playing or is it just the satisfaction of knowing you’ve helped a large guild, that doesn’t need any help at all anyway, finish their event?

Or have I misunderstood and all the guild events are instanced, so this is a moot point?

If its not your guild mission, you get the same rewards as you’d get for a normal event. If it’s not a combat mission (rush, puzzle) you get the chest at the end like everyone else.

guild missions are completely unfair to small guilds. i understand making some hard to unlock and require a lot of people, but that’s impossible for smaller guilds to even try for. my guild is a small group of my real life friends and we would like to keep it that way. we should not be penalized for wanting to keep it that way and not just recruiting random people.

perhaps adding some default available or smaller and easier to unlock missions – in addition – to the ones there is now would allow all guilds to participate, not just the larger, more active ones.

I have been playing non-stop since shortly after release and this is the first time I’ve felt strongly enough about something to post. The required amounts of influence to unlock these missions, that they require influence at all, is awful. It is a slap in the face to small guilds, it is an insult to large guilds, and its completely against the entire Guild Wars philosophy as I thought I knew it. My reasoning:

1) I am part of a -very- small guild – only 3 really active members with a few others who play occasionally – and with all the influences we’ve gathered, and all the stuff we’ve unlocked, we can’t do any of the new content. None. It will take us months and months to unlock the missions, and then days to get enough influence to even attempt one.

2) There should be no content that requires unlocking. The idea that you can’t even attempt these missions without earning that right smells strongly of a grinding philosophy I would expect from Everquest or WoW, and it shocks me that it’s found in Guild Wars.

I understand that you want to add content that rewards guilds for earning influence, but designing it so that it almost locks small guilds out of the content is definitely not the right way to do it. I am sad, angry, and confused, and desperately hope that you are willing to change the mission system.

If anyone actually reads this, thanks for listening.

And here I thought the guild missions would rope me back into GW2, instead I basically find just another reason to grind (influence dump). May not have been so bad if people were only allowed to join one guild per account but with people scattered all over with fragmented loyalties I think your system is just a failure waiting to happen.

Putting pve content down the pvp research tree doesn’t really make sense. Hey if you had guild missions that pitted guild against guild then this is probably a good line to put it on but I’m gonna go out on a limb and predict you’ll put that on the diplomacy line because you obviously like making players play the game in ways they dislike to reach the content they are after.

Yikes, man – I’m getting so negative in my old age. Sorry! Ok ok devil’s advocate with some less aggressive questions then:

If a guild starts a quest – other random people can join. I think I remember reading that somewhere which means the quests are in the open world. My question is, if the other random people complete the objective because the guild were not as skilled or not as many as the “guests” (say a small guild mission is invaded by large guild), does the initiating guild get anything for the gazillion influence points it lost to host the thing in the first place?

Similar to the question above – do the “guest” players get rewards for helping out in another guild mission (they aren’t part of),

If the quest is started concurrently by 20 guilds does it cope by randomizing the areas or will there be overlap where the guilds may actually have to fight for objectives/prizes?

How long does a mission remain active once started? Indefinitely? I ask because it would be cool if the mission can’t be finished by team 1 but team 2 who live in the next time zone can wrap it up.

What parameters are there for turning off a quest without finishing it after it has started? Team wipe? Leaving the area? Logging off? How many quests can a guild run simultaneously?

Are there any planned guild quests in dungeons?

Are there any planned guild quests in WvW?

What exactly -are- the rewards for guild quests anyway? Just a rough idea – you don’t need to put specific %. Does each guild member get the reward based on participation or just by simply being in the guild (logged off) is enough?

Guild jumping puzzle mission sounds instanced. Hopefully not? You have lots of good jumping puzzles around already.

I’m sure people are going to enjoy your guild mission content regardless – doubt that list will include myself or my guild any time soon though.

I can see were this could possibly be the downfall of this game if they choose to stick to there guns on this. I have defended dieing MMOs well into there decline until…………they threatened the existance of my guild. If we cant enjoy all the content this game has to offer at our current (small) membership levels we will do what we have done before…….. Find a new MMO

I’d like to bring up 2 slightly different topics that haven’t been mentioned much before, if i scan correctly.

I think one of the best ways you could back up your decision here is to give us some telemetry. You should know things like
- how many guilds are ‘active’ (players consistently log in)
- average number of active players per guild
- % of active players in active guild over X size
- average influence gain per day of an active guild
With these numbers, I expect we’d see a large variety. But at the least you could say, XX% of guilds that represent XX% of active player base will unlock this content in XX days. My suspicion is that as a company you actually have no idea about these numbers.

Normally, your content does a good job of dealing with this player variety. The best example right now is probably to compare this to fractals. Players with different involvement can experience this content at different levels:
- Player can treat like a normal dungeon – do level 1-9 for normal dungeon rewards and drops
- Player can repeat 1-9 and 10 to build up single infused gear specifically to be better at dungeon, the rewards increase according
- Player can take fractals very seriously and go 20+ etc, with this getting increasingly challenging
Regardless of how involved a player chooses to be, they had the ability to figure out if they liked it: ie there was no requirement for fractal level 1. The way guild missions is structured, it’s like you have required to trade in 250 tokens from every other dungeon to enter level 1. No matter how you back up your goals of having long lasting content and overtime unlockable content, when you release a patch, a portion of the content should be immediately available or you’ll get QQ. Cartwright mentions adding more down the road: make that content the large end game content and some of the content you are releasing now, available now.

I personally dont like the way the new guild missions are for smaller guilds. The people i play with in my guild are personal friends that i know and i have no interest in joining a larger guild and playing with people i dont want to just to experience content, and for a very small guild like mine, these seem nearly impossible to even get the chance to try without joining up with another larger guild, or recruiting random people into my guild that i dont want. i understand that these as they are are long term goals for guilds, but they really only seem possible with very large guilds.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild.

I don’t mind if they’re hard to accomplish. I mind if I need to GRIND the game to access it.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

*We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild.

Have you thought that maybe not all guilds have the budget to upgrade ALL upgrade lines? So if all lines are equally useful to all guilds, smaller ones won’t be able to do jack unless they focus on one thing. The problem is that PvE-only guilds didn’t invest 1 influence in Art of War yet and you put the entry level guild unlock (Bounties) in that specific upgrade line giving that unlock pretty much at half price to any WvW focused guild while PvE guilds need to grind their way up the tree because they’re not interested in WvW upgrades to start with. There shouldn’t be any unlock to do at all anyway!! The influence price to start the event is just enough, it could even be higher… 1000? 2000? 3000? Sure why not. At least we would have a goal accessible after a couple of weeks.
[/quote]

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades.

If you expect this from guilds in this game with the current upgrade costs, you should prevent guild creation under 50 members. You can’t realistically expect small guilds to agree with that line of thinking. Please, next time Arena.net do a press release/interview about guild content, don’t say that even small guilds are taken into account when it’s not true at all.

I’m scared to see how much a guild hall will cost if you ever make those. I doubt we’d have any influence left for the guild hall unlocks and all that other stuff after spending it all on guild mission unlocks.

The irony in this is that the guild they featured in the books and in the personal story is a 6 man guild. Of course one of the members, Snaff, is inactive.

Sorry Rytlock you can’t have PTV accessories with real gems slotted in, 6 man guild bro.

If this had been in since launch, would you still be complaining?

Heijincks.9267:

If people in small guilds want the new content that badly, why not just buy the influence? It’s a cheap workaround if everyone pools in a bit of their money.

It costs a total of 73g to get the 36500 influence needed for Art of War 5. If the guild has 10 people, that means 7.3g per person.

Small guilds are innately close knit, so I don’t see a problem in doing this as far as trust issues are concerned. In the case you don’t want to do this, then maybe you weren’t really interested to do guild missions in the first place. All in all, it’s a good workaround and quite cheap as well.

You still miss the point of needing to complete said mission…who’s gonna help u out if all they get is karma, exp and a few lousy pieces of copper as a reward???

Hugo Mann.7506:

The irony in this is that the guild they featured in the books and in the personal story is a 6 man guild. Of course one of the members, Snaff, is inactive.

Sorry Rytlock you can’t have PTV accessories with real gems slotted in, 6 man guild bro.

This was funny, though sadly true. :{D They can argue that Destiny’s Edge can just gather Laurels over time, though, so the new “exciting” content is all but “optional.” :P

Heijincks.9267:

If people in small guilds want the new content that badly, why not just buy the influence? It’s a cheap workaround if everyone pools in a bit of their money.

It costs a total of 73g to get the 36500 influence needed for Art of War 5. If the guild has 10 people, that means 7.3g per person.

The complaint is that we need Art of War 5 at all, for pve content. Also, seven gold is quite pricey for some people (that’s like my entire bank account). :P

Did Anet not look at researching what other MMO’s do in order to reward Guilds and Guild members via Guild Systems, cos tbh this system is just fail right off the bat… sorry ANET but your line of think just makes no sense whatsoever.
I have run my own small guild for almost 10 years and the majority of members have been with me from the start across various long standing MMO’s.. this just forces small guilds who have goals and agendas other than zergwars to either leave or ignore your content.. unless they want to fade to black in amongst the " weneedanyone.com" guilds who want to zerg WvW or battle PvP.
I was fine with you introducing a little bit of gear progression and optional content to get ti, but excluding guilds from their own guild reward system… meeh!!

It’s just so full of FAIL! …..

Martin Kerstein.3071:

As this has probably been buried deep by know, I would like to quote Izzy again. I put aspects of his post that touch on the actual discussion in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Thank you for restating ANet’s positon.

The re-issue of the statement (in two different threads) tells us far more than the content of the statement itself.

That was all the information my guild needs to begin our research… into another game.

goldenwing.8473:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

As this has probably been buried deep by know, I would like to quote Izzy again. I put aspects of his post that touch on the actual discussion in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Thank you for restating ANet’s positon.

The re-issue of the statement (in two different threads) tells us far more than the content of the statement itself.

That was all the information my guild needs to begin our research… into another game.

Agreed. There is obviously a complete disconnect between “the vision” and the path to get to that vision.

It might be an option, though I really dislike this, to join an additional larger guild other than my own small guild except that I have not seen a single guild ad for a large guild that doesn’t require 100% guild representation. I refuse to join a large guild if my original guild will not be allowed to benefit from my playing at all due to representation requirements.

I wonder why they didn’t use their fractal philosophy here with guilds. They could have had tiers of difficulty for each guild activity and kept the early tiers open to small guilds while adding costs to unlockable higher tiers for larger guilds.

Am I the only one who wishes to see this play out before complaining? How many people even did a new guild mission yet?

Agree about the worried, im in the same friend guild since GW1 for 8 years, we are a relative small Guild, with about 5-10 member represent and the new guild mission system just feel to a “kick off” to us, and we have 150K of influence ready to spend.

We have to go to a big guild only to make guild missions ?

We have to spam in the chat map searching people only to make guild missions ?

We could do anything what we want in GW1 and if there arent enought people we just put some Heroes.

We could do anything what we want in GW2, we just do WvWvW, PVP , all dungeons, fractals, Dynamic events etc….until now.

How a update to improve the guilds just punish so much to the small and friendly guilds and push players to join a Big Guild to get better rewards ?

To me a a small Guild of friends and loyal players who met for years playing together.appel more to the “Guild” word meaning, that a Guild full of 200 players who use the chat guild like a LFG system to make dungeons etc…and never talk between them.

Why a update to punish so much the small guilds, i just dont understand this, some my friends and thinking in quit the game, after the ascended items updates, the lack of pvp modes, and now feel punished by Arena.net because we are a small of Guild of friends playing, each day this game is far far away what GW1 build.

Where are the word " PLAY YOUR WAY, PLAY WITH THE PEOPLE WHO YOU WANT" ?

I know what arena.net dont want this, they are building a new system with long term like Martin said good theory, but in the practic the small guild feel usseles now and to us this update dont bring us any benefit or fun thigs to do, only troubes and issues of people leaving small guild only to farm Ascended earrings in bigger guilds.

You have a great scaling system event, why dont use it in the guild missions beggining with 5 players and if more Guild people join increase the difficulty ? Why put a prefix tier system who only punish us ?

I just want exrpess my thoughts, when i put my worries and all the community about ascened items becoming a grind thing like is becoming ( 40 laurels and 50 ectos, seriusly ) and the lack of stats ( still left many mix ) arena.net still continue the ascended item against the community, and now we have a grinding fest in fractal, laurels to wait months only to get a full ascended jewel set, when they said that GW2 will not be a grind game.

Now i dont have any hope of Arena.net give a backstep and rethink their system before damage the small guild of their player base, they will continue, many small guild disband to go big guilds or players quit for feel punished for the game but well….

Now the Guild Missions are bugged, just arena.net take your time and dont rush your monthly updates and rething well the Missions systems, this update just feel to rushed only to get “big monthly update” ready, is better wait 2 months that rush a update and mess with the most important things in this game, the Guilds and the playerbase.

And now we have bugs with the guild missions whodathunkit..

Test server anyone.

Many Guild systems I have seem implemented reward the guild members first and foremost… ANET has this (to some effect but lots of options for future will likely be added).. except only those larger guilds will ever see those benefits as the requirments get larger still.
Then the Guild itself often gets rewarded.. announcments, titles, banners, housing, ships etc.
Lastly the guild as a whole should be measured by way of its achievements, skill, and other game aspects.. the rewards are weighted based on guild size but this can then be collated into server league tables, much like PvPs for braggin rights…. this in turn offers a coolective focus for the guild not just what buffs it can get or how many storage slots you can amass….. and the weighting insures all guilds of all sizes have the ability to compete for say a monthly or annual reward….likewise guilds already show individuals influence tally so it promotes guilds to reward its own accompanied by a server announcement each month maybe… it get players playing for their guilds as well as for themselves all whilst playing the game and dabbling in other areas of the game they frequent less.