Guild Wars 2

alcopaul.2156:

champ.7021:

whats the context to your signature, what did he say before the otherwise???

edit/ crap new page so much pressure and that last guy prob wont see this

the context of the signature is the whole sentence itself. it is in plain english. it doesn’t require complex calculations to understand it.

No i understand what the sentence means i just wanted to know what came before the otherwise. Must have been something. Ive seen that signature alot on the forums and have no idea where it came from (unless gasp is it from that truthful manifesto /s)
Of course i agree this game is grindy as kitten.

Grind?

6 days for a top tier weapon. Thats all it took me, a humble non hardcore player to get an ascended weapon. Hardly a grind, merely a time constrained effort. After all the scarlet events last month I had a crapload of mats anyway. They went to a good cause.

A lot of hyperbole in this thread.

Yeah theres not that much grind. But the things that are a grind are really grindy

Fractals of the mists – character bound levels meaning if i want to enter in at lvl 50 on an alt without relying on others i would have to level up to 50 on that alt. Also gets boring after a while just doing the same fractals over and over and over and over and over again.

Ascended trinkets – take forever and are time gated. Yes if you have one char then no big deal but if you have multiple than its a pain in the *

And sure getting one ascended weapon in 6 days isnt a big deal but imagine getting all weapons for all characters. Either it will cost a lot or will take forever. So another grind especially since you cant just do whatever you want to get the mats.

Oh and i remember vayne(cant remember but im 95% sure that it was he who said it) once saying that a grind isnt just having to do something over and over again its having to get new gear in order to be at the top level. With ascended armor coming out there is clearly a grind.

“6 days for a top tier weapon. Thats all it took me, a humble non hardcore player to get an ascended weapon”

I’m sorry but getting 500 dragonite and 500 empyreal in 6 days is most people’s idea of hardcore.

I’m on my way out from playing this game, all the new updates seem silly and the performance in this game is terrible. The game feels like a job and although I can be content at times with the game, I never have moments I consider “fun” anymore. I guess it was good while it lasted, now what to do with the 1000 gold I have saved up….

Vortex.4780:

I’m on my way out from playing this game, all the new updates seem silly and the performance in this game is terrible. The game feels like a job and although I can be content at times with the game, I never have moments I consider “fun” anymore. I guess it was good while it lasted, now what to do with the 1000 gold I have saved up….

Make people jump through hoops for it ofc! Hold a questionnaire in LA or play hide and go seek.

Vortex.4780:

I’m on my way out from playing this game, all the new updates seem silly and the performance in this game is terrible. The game feels like a job and although I can be content at times with the game, I never have moments I consider “fun” anymore. I guess it was good while it lasted, now what to do with the 1000 gold I have saved up….

Whaaat.. I’ll take it.

Never played WoW because it was so grindy and the lack of grind was what lured me to the GW franchise from the start. Unfortunately GW2 has turned in to just another run of the mill grind fest. There is nothing special anymore.
The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee. I have no wish to make a legendary as they are all ugly as sin, and the requirements for ascended do not offset the benefits of having one. I play every day, but I really don’t know why, guess I am just glutton for punishment.

Stooperdale.3560:

“6 days for a top tier weapon. Thats all it took me, a humble non hardcore player to get an ascended weapon”

I’m sorry but getting 500 dragonite and 500 empyreal in 6 days is most people’s idea of hardcore.

500 / 6 = 83.333

so, for dragonite ore, 4-5 of the world boss events a day, and he is done. And many happen right after the other, so no time wasted.

as for empyreal, thats four different dungeon paths a day, and one jump puzzle. Heck, he could do two of the same dungeon path (CoF 1 & 2), on two different characters and it would work. Fast dungeon run, fast events. Boom, done in 6 days. I got mine in 6 days, prob sooner if I actually rushed for it.

And someone not knowing what to do with 1000g? I’ll take it, then I can buy the inscription, buy the metal needed to craft the weapon parts, and make the rest of my ascended after a few more dungeon runs.

Stooperdale.3560:

“6 days for a top tier weapon. Thats all it took me, a humble non hardcore player to get an ascended weapon”

I’m sorry but getting 500 dragonite and 500 empyreal in 6 days is most people’s idea of hardcore.

I understand that many people think that this game has less grind that other games. That’s fine. I’m sure it does.

The point I’ve been trying to make (and people appear to be trying really hard to miss) is that any grind for gear stats is poor game design. Any. Whatsoever.

I want a game that had some thought put into it. Not cookie-cutter give-em-something-mindless-to-do crap. There are better ways to make games, and it’s been done before. By ArenaNet! This is the crux of the disappointment you find all over these threads about tier gear. It did not exist in Guild Wars, and that’s one of the major reasons why those who loved Guild Wars loved it so much. It was smarter than your average MMO.

Guild Wars 2 has taken an evolutionary step backwards from Guild Wars in basic design philosophy. And it did this after promising not to!

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Never played WoW because it was so grindy and the lack of grind was what lured me to the GW franchise from the start. Unfortunately GW2 has turned in to just another run of the mill grind fest. There is nothing special anymore.
The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee. I have no wish to make a legendary as they are all ugly as sin, and the requirements for ascended do not offset the benefits of having one. I play every day, but I really don’t know why, guess I am just glutton for punishment.

It’s funny how you can say this is just another WoW clone, having never played WoW. In fact, I think only a Guild Wars 1 player would call Guild Wars 2 a WoW clone.

In reality, there’s a ton of differences between Guild Wars 2 and your typical WoW clone, particularly in the inclusion of raids and having to have the right gear to get into those raids.

Vayne.8563:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Never played WoW because it was so grindy and the lack of grind was what lured me to the GW franchise from the start. Unfortunately GW2 has turned in to just another run of the mill grind fest. There is nothing special anymore.
The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee. I have no wish to make a legendary as they are all ugly as sin, and the requirements for ascended do not offset the benefits of having one. I play every day, but I really don’t know why, guess I am just glutton for punishment.

and having to have the right gear to get into those raids.

Nah-uh.

WoW is currently implementing 4th raid mode. Intended for family and friends, thats a bit more difficult than LFR.

Get in touch with the times Vayne. Spreading missinformation is bad for you.

Nobody cares about 5-10 years ago.

Vayne.8563:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Never played WoW because it was so grindy and the lack of grind was what lured me to the GW franchise from the start. Unfortunately GW2 has turned in to just another run of the mill grind fest. There is nothing special anymore.
The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee. I have no wish to make a legendary as they are all ugly as sin, and the requirements for ascended do not offset the benefits of having one. I play every day, but I really don’t know why, guess I am just glutton for punishment.

It’s funny how you can say this is just another WoW clone, having never played WoW. In fact, I think only a Guild Wars 1 player would call Guild Wars 2 a WoW clone.

In reality, there’s a ton of differences between Guild Wars 2 and your typical WoW clone, particularly in the inclusion of raids and having to have the right gear to get into those raids.

It’s a clone in the sense that ArenaNet introduced aspects of WoW that were the reasons I kept going back to Guild Wars.

And I can say that I _have_played WoW. For a couple years. Raided current content awhile, too. And eventually realized that sort of thing is kind of like having a job, and you spend more time “preparing to have fun”, if I may use that phrase.

And that’s exactly what Guild Wars 2 has become. Yes, GW2 and WoW do not approach it in exactly the same way. The philosophy is there, though.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Never played WoW because it was so grindy and the lack of grind was what lured me to the GW franchise from the start. Unfortunately GW2 has turned in to just another run of the mill grind fest. There is nothing special anymore.
The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee. I have no wish to make a legendary as they are all ugly as sin, and the requirements for ascended do not offset the benefits of having one. I play every day, but I really don’t know why, guess I am just glutton for punishment.

and having to have the right gear to get into those raids.

Nah-uh.

WoW is currently implementing 4th raid mode. Intended for family and friends, thats a bit more difficult than LFR.

Get in touch with the times Vayne. Spreading missinformation is bad for you.

Nobody cares about 5-10 years ago.

So are you saying there are currently no raids in WoW with gear checks? Let’s be clear here.

It’s certainly not a clone of WoW, but I do think it follows trends I didn’t like seeing in MMOs.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Never played WoW because it was so grindy and the lack of grind was what lured me to the GW franchise from the start. Unfortunately GW2 has turned in to just another run of the mill grind fest. There is nothing special anymore.
The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee. I have no wish to make a legendary as they are all ugly as sin, and the requirements for ascended do not offset the benefits of having one. I play every day, but I really don’t know why, guess I am just glutton for punishment.

I must admit, WoW actually ruined GW2 for me

I played WoW in the year or so of limbo between GW1 and GW2 and WoW gave me an expectation of quality that GW2 never reached
Hell, WoW actually isn’t as grindy as it used to be either, it has a brilliant LFG and LFRaid system, yeah gear is a grind, but drops in dungeons are actually good enough to raid with (unless the high stat fools notice)

kitten … I’d rather be playing Minecraft right now, at least that’s somewhat enjoyable grind

Fingers crossed Everquest Next learns from this

It’s starting to be a WoW vs. GW2 topic, and I don’t think it should be as it’s two different games that should appeal to two groups of people.

WoW again, made it to where it is by appealing to a LOT of demographics, and sadly Guild Wars 2 is trying to do the same and it just can’t, not in this environment where the players have dozens of games, not the least of which are MMO’s to choose from.

They’re not competing for our money, but for our time, and GW2 with the introduction of Ascended crafting and two week releases, basically boiled it down to “play a LOT (or buy a lot of gems —> gold) or you’ll miss these carrots we’re dangling”.

Assigning arbitrary numbers like 100 dragonite here and 100 ectos there to craft a sword makes no sense whatsoever. At least have some type of rpg element and make these craftable in places like the Orr temple that lend some type of credence that we’re playing in Tyria.

People here are so worried they can’t keep up with the gear grind and will get left behind.

I’m thinking these guys are playing a completely different game from the other guys a few threads down who can kill world bosses by pressing #1 then going afk.

Apparently GW2 is one of those games that compel people to grind for gear for no reason at all.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

The WoW players have gotten their wish and GW2 is turning in to another clone with nothing to make it stand out except no monthly fee.

Old WoW player waving at you here. I used to play WoW and came to this game because it was different.
I have had enough grind and I would much rather be without it.

If you were to compare to two, I personally find that the grind in this game is more fair because everyone willing to put the hours in, can get the ascended or legendary weapons. In Warcraft, the bis gear was only for raiders, and only for raiders that did heroic mode. It was fun for those of us that enjoyed raids, but it ment that none raiders or new players joining mid expansion had a very low chance of actually catching up. You could not get bis by playing alone.

On the other hand, I found the grind in WoW to be more interesting than the gather materials and level your crafting in Gw2.
At least new gear in Warcraft came with new content to do. At least it was somewhat fun to do.

The gear in warcraft served a purpose. You geared up in order to be able to deal with the next dungeon release.

The ascended gear in gw2 seems to serve no purpose (other than grind for the sake of the grind). As borring as that might be, I hope no purpose is implemented.

If a true purpose to the ascended gear is implemented such as content that can only be done with said ascended gear, then this game is pretty much like all the others.
If that happens, I think other games (such as WoW) do that better, and I will no longer have any reason to play Gw2 instead.

Khai.6435:

Of my clique of a dozen gamers; everyone has left this game but myself. I have transferred servers twice due to dying populations.

I am near to ending my time as well because of the lack of meaningful character progression. My characters are wearing the same armor for months now; because the stats I need are on the set I have and it just doesn’t matter.

I have dungeon master title.. the dungeons have grown stale;
WvW has few objectives other than whichever zerg has the most bodies eats the most keeps and you surrender individual play to the zerg caller.

The “living world” is hardly living and has ZERO impact on the world after it’s two weeks expire. No terrain is changed; no NPCs die or given birth. The story I was originally a part of has simply stagnated and died.

Now you think 8 bit style platformers that I grew bored with 30 years ago is innovative.

Rifts may have a smaller community; but if you want to see a store that has stuff worth buying; spend a little time within it. You can actively change your character’s look with some viable styles vice immersion breaking “fuzzy quaggan hats” that cannot even be worn outside of town (if you wanted to)

As far as ascended gear.. I have 5 80s. Why does any one character limit the progression of my others? Making my ability to craft account bound vice character bound is a slap in the face; like saying, “sorry you cannot craft armor, you used your weaponsmithing on your other character” The only reason behind such a bone headed decision is to stall… make us stay in the game longer for our objectives.

Well… it’s having the opposite affect.

You want to impress your player base who have played a myriad of MMOs and are starting to look towards the next shiny penny coming out? Revamp all boss fights in a patch not ….one.

Make every pursuit equivalent to the challenge.. If one dungeon path takes an hour and another takes 5.. you should get 5 times the rewards.

If you are zerging down a champion in 7 seconds with 50 players you should get 1/10 of the loot of doing it with 5; not the opposite.

Fix your kitten game; listen to honest criticism; else you are going to start bleeding people.

I’ve been on two other dead servers; it’s already started.

great post. Also IMHO this thread is the most important thread on the forum of all times. Anet – please read it carefully. I want to avoid copy pasta so my picture of the current state of the game can be read here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Regretting-weapon-switch/first#post2771406

Khai.6435:

You want to impress your player base who have played a myriad of MMOs and are starting to look towards the next shiny penny coming out? Revamp all boss fights in a patch not ….one.

Read the upcoming patch info, says other bosses will be upgraded, Taco is just being the main focus of patch since he will have the most changes.

Make every pursuit equivalent to the challenge.. If one dungeon path takes an hour and another takes 5.. you should get 5 times the rewards.

This shouldn’t count player skill. The same path can be done in 15 mins by 1 group but 1 hour by another, how does that award the better skilled players? It should be equal or everyone will be taking forever in a dungeon on purpose.

If you are zerging down a champion in 7 seconds with 50 players you should get 1/10 of the loot of doing it with 5; not the opposite.

It is not Anet’s fault. It is the players who have decided to join in as a zerg. The only thing Anet designed to be zerg’ed are the Invasions and Orr. You still have tons of people hunting champs as a solo or small group in other zones because that is their playstyle while others (most farmers) join the zerg.

Fix your kitten game; listen to honest criticism; else you are going to start bleeding people.

I’ve been on two other dead servers; it’s already started.

Try fixing something and people still complain, best job in the world.

I’m sorry so how long after the game release are they just now getting to fixing the boss events? I question a development team that is running this far behind the power curve. “What…. major world level bosses need to be challenging? Really?” Combine this lack of foresight with how much effort it has taken to get the message through.

We are not talking about the difference between a skilled group and a neophyte group both doing Path 1. We are talking about a median group doing paths 1, 2 and 3.
While there are story reasons for each path the effort vs reward is rarely balanced between them for the time you must invest; again a huge lack of understanding of the playerbase and lack of foresight.

The problem is not them “fixing” stuff that people are complaining about as much as what they are choosing to address and in the manner they are addressing it.

I don’t give a flip about outdated 80’s style of 8 bit gameplay. I want to continue the story THEY started with the war against Zhaitan and the dragons. Not chase the same kitten centaur that spawns every 20 min, or some unkillable kitten worm every hour and a half in Caledon forest.

If an invasion threatens us via the “Living World” story line, where are the impacts and effects where “you change the world.” 2 weeks later there is absolutely zero sign. I expect there to be wrecks of crashed zeppelins that decay over a couple of months. I would expect to see rebellious pockets of molemen in some out of the way areas that occassionally send out foragers.. Not day after the event ends <bamf> all traces vanish.

For the love of all that is holy pay some interns to create some new armors and drop them into the loot table just to give the game some variety that alone would take some of the mindlessness of grinding a new character; because you could at least have the potential of having a different look.

Other than SAB, I’m finding less interest every day to log in.

Why do I have to run around waiting for world boss events for a single rare, of which won’t guarantee me an ecto (my ecto rate has been lower than ever after the ascended patch) then, I have to run around lower level areas farming up wood and ore as a part of yet more ascended mats. On top of that, I have to shard everything I get in hope for mithril and elder wood for 100 ore/150 logs a day because having to spend another gold on top of all of that is just being shot in the foot. Then if I craft an exotic with all those ectos, I have yet ANOTHER chance of not receiving back any ectos or dark matter!

Yes the magic find helps with the latter, but when I was running around in 300% and didn’t get jack for drops then either, I don’t even know…

Ascended isn’t even that big of an upgrade. Slot an exotic with a gem and you already have equivalent stats of an unslotted ascended weapon. Why bother? I’m tempted to just buy everything on the AH every day and sell the cooldowns before it stops being a profitable endeavour.

A lot of people are talking about things they “HAVE to do”. Let me ease your minds…. You don’t have to do anything in GW2. You could stay at exotic level and still be good in your little PvE world.

If you find that playing GW2 without feeling you have to do something specific is boring , and not fun , then you should probably quit.

The whole mentality of “trying to keep up with everyone else so I can be cool” is pretty sad. This mentality is a big reason why we have problems IRL.

Laundry.5120:

Vayne.8563:

Crapgame.6519:

Someone said:

Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?

I’m not going to get into the middle of this cat fight but actually if you would recall, Warcraft actually gained subscribers (paying mind you) over the years. It increased year over year and only after cata and the 10 million mark has it subsided. Most would consider its current population of 6 million a success yet here we are talking about 400K active maybe at best and 3.5 million copies sold.

Look, not going to pee in the wind here but I do find it rather interesting that people ask “do you still play that game” (e.g. GW2). I really don’t know how it fits in the public space but for me, it is only really WvW that I care about and it is pretty much dead in regards to return on investment (playing time mind you).

Anyway – Figured I’d throw that out that at least one MMO grew. The others while good failed because they tried to measure success like the two ton heavy thing…

Actually, you’re right WoW did grow. But at the 1 year mark where we are now, it had less sales than Guild Wars 2 does now and it didn’t grow by that point to it’s high point. So how do you know what Guild Wars 2 will do in the same time period. If Guild Wars 2 has two or three years of updates, how do you know it won’t grow?

More to the point, Eve, also considered a successful MMORPG just managed it hit 500,000 subscribers…I think it was last year.

The fact that WoW was mega succesful at a time when there was virtually no competition and made a name for itself means what exactly?

EVE isn’t just successful because of it’s numbers, it’s successful because gamers, whether they play EVE now or have played it, respect EVE and CCP. They cater to a niche and they serve that niche, and serve it well.

I’ve tried EVE once and wouldn’t play EVE, it’s just not for me, but you know what? I respect it, because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone.

How many books or movies,or any medium really except MMO’s, do you know that cater fiction/non-fiction/science/fantasy/drama/comedy/horror/suspense all in one volume?

Developers in general need to stop making games that appeal to “everyone” because there’s no such thing as “everyone”. WoW was the only one to do this, and it was popular because of it’s polish and there was very little competition for it for years.

GW1 strength was unquestionably it’s PVP, and that’s been sidelined in GW2 not only for PVE but PVE that’s poorly written, poorly delivered, while the real meat of the game, WvW has been tossed in the backburner for a year.

Invasions, Rift does it better (and fits in their lore). Personal stories, ToR does it better.
GW2 needs focus, and less fluff.

One other point to make about EvE is that they actually listen to their player base.

When EvE had “Monoclegate” and tried to introduce an expensive cash shop (where Monocles sold for something like $99), the players staged a mutiny. Many quit, and EvE reversed their decision and removed the shop. And so EvE continues to grow.

What did Anet do with the backlash against Ascended gear? Double down against it and introduce more Ascended gear.

Ascended gear might lock in their existing player base, who can’t take their equity out of the game and so will do the grind. But why would anyone else come here when you can get better progression elsewhere?

Be happy, you have your end-game.

The problem with the current game/gear progression: you can progress in gear, but it does not “unlock” any new content for you. I am close to getting the new tier, but then what? Farm cof 5% more effectively? I really enjoy the game still, but I just cannot see what I will be doing in GW2 in half a year from now – and no, the answer isn´t farm champs for ascended armor.

Thrumdi.9216:

Laundry.5120:

Vayne.8563:

Crapgame.6519:

Someone said:

Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?

I’m not going to get into the middle of this cat fight but actually if you would recall, Warcraft actually gained subscribers (paying mind you) over the years. It increased year over year and only after cata and the 10 million mark has it subsided. Most would consider its current population of 6 million a success yet here we are talking about 400K active maybe at best and 3.5 million copies sold.

Look, not going to pee in the wind here but I do find it rather interesting that people ask “do you still play that game” (e.g. GW2). I really don’t know how it fits in the public space but for me, it is only really WvW that I care about and it is pretty much dead in regards to return on investment (playing time mind you).

Anyway – Figured I’d throw that out that at least one MMO grew. The others while good failed because they tried to measure success like the two ton heavy thing…

Actually, you’re right WoW did grow. But at the 1 year mark where we are now, it had less sales than Guild Wars 2 does now and it didn’t grow by that point to it’s high point. So how do you know what Guild Wars 2 will do in the same time period. If Guild Wars 2 has two or three years of updates, how do you know it won’t grow?

More to the point, Eve, also considered a successful MMORPG just managed it hit 500,000 subscribers…I think it was last year.

The fact that WoW was mega succesful at a time when there was virtually no competition and made a name for itself means what exactly?

EVE isn’t just successful because of it’s numbers, it’s successful because gamers, whether they play EVE now or have played it, respect EVE and CCP. They cater to a niche and they serve that niche, and serve it well.

I’ve tried EVE once and wouldn’t play EVE, it’s just not for me, but you know what? I respect it, because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone.

How many books or movies,or any medium really except MMO’s, do you know that cater fiction/non-fiction/science/fantasy/drama/comedy/horror/suspense all in one volume?

Developers in general need to stop making games that appeal to “everyone” because there’s no such thing as “everyone”. WoW was the only one to do this, and it was popular because of it’s polish and there was very little competition for it for years.

GW1 strength was unquestionably it’s PVP, and that’s been sidelined in GW2 not only for PVE but PVE that’s poorly written, poorly delivered, while the real meat of the game, WvW has been tossed in the backburner for a year.

Invasions, Rift does it better (and fits in their lore). Personal stories, ToR does it better.
GW2 needs focus, and less fluff.

One other point to make about EvE is that they actually listen to their player base.

When EvE had “Monoclegate” and tried to introduce an expensive cash shop (where Monocles sold for something like $99), the players staged a mutiny. Many quit, and EvE reversed their decision and removed the shop. And so EvE continues to grow.

What did Anet do with the backlash against Ascended gear? Double down against it and introduce more Ascended gear.

Ascended gear might lock in their existing player base, who can’t take their equity out of the game and so will do the grind. But why would anyone else come here when you can get better progression elsewhere?

This is terrible logic. Eve didn’t “listen to their player base”. Eve ignored their playerbase, until their bottom line was affected. The playerbase brought the game to nearly a halt. Eve didn’t cave in until they realized they were in danger of going belly up if they continued.

Guild Wars 2 had a backlash…but obviously they carried on, because they also experienced a surge in people playing, at least according to Anet.

What means that Anet listened to its user base too. The fact that you personally don’t agree with the rest of the user base is another matter entirely.

Vayne.8563:

Thrumdi.9216:

Laundry.5120:

Vayne.8563:

Crapgame.6519:

Someone said:

Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?

I’m not going to get into the middle of this cat fight but actually if you would recall, Warcraft actually gained subscribers (paying mind you) over the years. It increased year over year and only after cata and the 10 million mark has it subsided. Most would consider its current population of 6 million a success yet here we are talking about 400K active maybe at best and 3.5 million copies sold.

Look, not going to pee in the wind here but I do find it rather interesting that people ask “do you still play that game” (e.g. GW2). I really don’t know how it fits in the public space but for me, it is only really WvW that I care about and it is pretty much dead in regards to return on investment (playing time mind you).

Anyway – Figured I’d throw that out that at least one MMO grew. The others while good failed because they tried to measure success like the two ton heavy thing…

Actually, you’re right WoW did grow. But at the 1 year mark where we are now, it had less sales than Guild Wars 2 does now and it didn’t grow by that point to it’s high point. So how do you know what Guild Wars 2 will do in the same time period. If Guild Wars 2 has two or three years of updates, how do you know it won’t grow?

More to the point, Eve, also considered a successful MMORPG just managed it hit 500,000 subscribers…I think it was last year.

The fact that WoW was mega succesful at a time when there was virtually no competition and made a name for itself means what exactly?

EVE isn’t just successful because of it’s numbers, it’s successful because gamers, whether they play EVE now or have played it, respect EVE and CCP. They cater to a niche and they serve that niche, and serve it well.

I’ve tried EVE once and wouldn’t play EVE, it’s just not for me, but you know what? I respect it, because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone.

How many books or movies,or any medium really except MMO’s, do you know that cater fiction/non-fiction/science/fantasy/drama/comedy/horror/suspense all in one volume?

Developers in general need to stop making games that appeal to “everyone” because there’s no such thing as “everyone”. WoW was the only one to do this, and it was popular because of it’s polish and there was very little competition for it for years.

GW1 strength was unquestionably it’s PVP, and that’s been sidelined in GW2 not only for PVE but PVE that’s poorly written, poorly delivered, while the real meat of the game, WvW has been tossed in the backburner for a year.

Invasions, Rift does it better (and fits in their lore). Personal stories, ToR does it better.
GW2 needs focus, and less fluff.

One other point to make about EvE is that they actually listen to their player base.

When EvE had “Monoclegate” and tried to introduce an expensive cash shop (where Monocles sold for something like $99), the players staged a mutiny. Many quit, and EvE reversed their decision and removed the shop. And so EvE continues to grow.

What did Anet do with the backlash against Ascended gear? Double down against it and introduce more Ascended gear.

Ascended gear might lock in their existing player base, who can’t take their equity out of the game and so will do the grind. But why would anyone else come here when you can get better progression elsewhere?

This is terrible logic. Eve didn’t “listen to their player base”. Eve ignored their playerbase, until their bottom line was affected. The playerbase brought the game to nearly a halt. Eve didn’t cave in until they realized they were in danger of going belly up if they continued.

Guild Wars 2 had a backlash…but obviously they carried on, because they also experienced a surge in people playing, at least according to Anet.

What means that Anet listened to its user base too. The fact that you personally don’t agree with the rest of the user base is another matter entirely.

no, not that it really belongs in here, but as you argue along those lines: Eve devs were (and are) rather close to their players and appeared to be rather shocked at the backlash and were interested in player-to-dev interaction. I was there. Stop causing your GW2 hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about.

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

Thrumdi.9216:

Laundry.5120:

Vayne.8563:

Crapgame.6519:

Someone said:

Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?

snip

snip

The fact that WoW was mega succesful at a time when there was virtually no competition and made a name for itself means what exactly?

EVE isn’t just successful because of it’s numbers, it’s successful because gamers, whether they play EVE now or have played it, respect EVE and CCP. They cater to a niche and they serve that niche, and serve it well.

I’ve tried EVE once and wouldn’t play EVE, it’s just not for me, but you know what? I respect it, because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone.

How many books or movies,or any medium really except MMO’s, do you know that cater fiction/non-fiction/science/fantasy/drama/comedy/horror/suspense all in one volume?

Developers in general need to stop making games that appeal to “everyone” because there’s no such thing as “everyone”. WoW was the only one to do this, and it was popular because of it’s polish and there was very little competition for it for years.

GW1 strength was unquestionably it’s PVP, and that’s been sidelined in GW2 not only for PVE but PVE that’s poorly written, poorly delivered, while the real meat of the game, WvW has been tossed in the backburner for a year.

Invasions, Rift does it better (and fits in their lore). Personal stories, ToR does it better.
GW2 needs focus, and less fluff.

One other point to make about EvE is that they actually listen to their player base.

When EvE had “Monoclegate” and tried to introduce an expensive cash shop (where Monocles sold for something like $99), the players staged a mutiny. Many quit, and EvE reversed their decision and removed the shop. And so EvE continues to grow.

What did Anet do with the backlash against Ascended gear? Double down against it and introduce more Ascended gear.

Ascended gear might lock in their existing player base, who can’t take their equity out of the game and so will do the grind. But why would anyone else come here when you can get better progression elsewhere?

This is terrible logic. Eve didn’t “listen to their player base”. Eve ignored their playerbase, until their bottom line was affected. The playerbase brought the game to nearly a halt. Eve didn’t cave in until they realized they were in danger of going belly up if they continued.

Guild Wars 2 had a backlash…but obviously they carried on, because they also experienced a surge in people playing, at least according to Anet.

What means that Anet listened to its user base too. The fact that you personally don’t agree with the rest of the user base is another matter entirely.

no, not that it really belongs in here, but as you argue along those lines: Eve devs were (and are) rather close to their players and appeared to be rather shocked at the backlash and were interested in player-to-dev interaction. I was there. Stop causing your GW2 hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about.

I know all about the backlash. There was plenty of coverage of the percentage of people who stopped playing completely. My experience with Guild Wars 2, admittedly this is just my own observations (but it’s backed up by what Anet has said) is that concurrency numbers are increasing.

When people make statements like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s player base because there was a backlash, my first reaction is to ask this….what about the people who didn’t backlash.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, in Eve was asking for a 90 dollar monocle. No one. People on this forums have asked for gear grind and raids and end game. As long as a percentage of people are asking for something, then Anet is listening to some of their players.

And if Eve’s devs are so highly regarded and thought after, if they’re so close to their fans, how did they EVER introduced a $90 monocle into their game. Did they think this was a service to their fans.

Stop causing your Eve hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about

Vayne.8563:

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

Thrumdi.9216:

Laundry.5120:

Vayne.8563:

Crapgame.6519:

Someone said:

Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?

snip

snip

The fact that WoW was mega succesful at a time when there was virtually no competition and made a name for itself means what exactly?

EVE isn’t just successful because of it’s numbers, it’s successful because gamers, whether they play EVE now or have played it, respect EVE and CCP. They cater to a niche and they serve that niche, and serve it well.

I’ve tried EVE once and wouldn’t play EVE, it’s just not for me, but you know what? I respect it, because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone.

How many books or movies,or any medium really except MMO’s, do you know that cater fiction/non-fiction/science/fantasy/drama/comedy/horror/suspense all in one volume?

Developers in general need to stop making games that appeal to “everyone” because there’s no such thing as “everyone”. WoW was the only one to do this, and it was popular because of it’s polish and there was very little competition for it for years.

GW1 strength was unquestionably it’s PVP, and that’s been sidelined in GW2 not only for PVE but PVE that’s poorly written, poorly delivered, while the real meat of the game, WvW has been tossed in the backburner for a year.

Invasions, Rift does it better (and fits in their lore). Personal stories, ToR does it better.
GW2 needs focus, and less fluff.

One other point to make about EvE is that they actually listen to their player base.

When EvE had “Monoclegate” and tried to introduce an expensive cash shop (where Monocles sold for something like $99), the players staged a mutiny. Many quit, and EvE reversed their decision and removed the shop. And so EvE continues to grow.

What did Anet do with the backlash against Ascended gear? Double down against it and introduce more Ascended gear.

Ascended gear might lock in their existing player base, who can’t take their equity out of the game and so will do the grind. But why would anyone else come here when you can get better progression elsewhere?

This is terrible logic. Eve didn’t “listen to their player base”. Eve ignored their playerbase, until their bottom line was affected. The playerbase brought the game to nearly a halt. Eve didn’t cave in until they realized they were in danger of going belly up if they continued.

Guild Wars 2 had a backlash…but obviously they carried on, because they also experienced a surge in people playing, at least according to Anet.

What means that Anet listened to its user base too. The fact that you personally don’t agree with the rest of the user base is another matter entirely.

no, not that it really belongs in here, but as you argue along those lines: Eve devs were (and are) rather close to their players and appeared to be rather shocked at the backlash and were interested in player-to-dev interaction. I was there. Stop causing your GW2 hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about.

I know all about the backlash. There was plenty of coverage of the percentage of people who stopped playing completely. My experience with Guild Wars 2, admittedly this is just my own observations (but it’s backed up by what Anet has said) is that concurrency numbers are increasing.

When people make statements like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s player base because there was a backlash, my first reaction is to ask this….what about the people who didn’t backlash.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, in Eve was asking for a 90 dollar monocle. No one. People on this forums have asked for gear grind and raids and end game. As long as a percentage of people are asking for something, then Anet is listening to some of their players.

And if Eve’s devs are so highly regarded and thought after, if they’re so close to their fans, how did they EVER introduced a $90 monocle into their game. Did they think this was a service to their fans.

Stop causing your Eve hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about

because people there are not infallible, just as GW2 devs are not. Still, that does not change you post about stuff you have apparently no idea about. And if I was a blind hierophant about eve as you are about GW2, I´d play that and defend every apparent shortcoming there as you do here.

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

Thrumdi.9216:

Laundry.5120:

Vayne.8563:

Crapgame.6519:

Someone said:

Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?

snip

snip

The fact that WoW was mega succesful at a time when there was virtually no competition and made a name for itself means what exactly?

EVE isn’t just successful because of it’s numbers, it’s successful because gamers, whether they play EVE now or have played it, respect EVE and CCP. They cater to a niche and they serve that niche, and serve it well.

I’ve tried EVE once and wouldn’t play EVE, it’s just not for me, but you know what? I respect it, because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone.

How many books or movies,or any medium really except MMO’s, do you know that cater fiction/non-fiction/science/fantasy/drama/comedy/horror/suspense all in one volume?

Developers in general need to stop making games that appeal to “everyone” because there’s no such thing as “everyone”. WoW was the only one to do this, and it was popular because of it’s polish and there was very little competition for it for years.

GW1 strength was unquestionably it’s PVP, and that’s been sidelined in GW2 not only for PVE but PVE that’s poorly written, poorly delivered, while the real meat of the game, WvW has been tossed in the backburner for a year.

Invasions, Rift does it better (and fits in their lore). Personal stories, ToR does it better.
GW2 needs focus, and less fluff.

One other point to make about EvE is that they actually listen to their player base.

When EvE had “Monoclegate” and tried to introduce an expensive cash shop (where Monocles sold for something like $99), the players staged a mutiny. Many quit, and EvE reversed their decision and removed the shop. And so EvE continues to grow.

What did Anet do with the backlash against Ascended gear? Double down against it and introduce more Ascended gear.

Ascended gear might lock in their existing player base, who can’t take their equity out of the game and so will do the grind. But why would anyone else come here when you can get better progression elsewhere?

This is terrible logic. Eve didn’t “listen to their player base”. Eve ignored their playerbase, until their bottom line was affected. The playerbase brought the game to nearly a halt. Eve didn’t cave in until they realized they were in danger of going belly up if they continued.

Guild Wars 2 had a backlash…but obviously they carried on, because they also experienced a surge in people playing, at least according to Anet.

What means that Anet listened to its user base too. The fact that you personally don’t agree with the rest of the user base is another matter entirely.

no, not that it really belongs in here, but as you argue along those lines: Eve devs were (and are) rather close to their players and appeared to be rather shocked at the backlash and were interested in player-to-dev interaction. I was there. Stop causing your GW2 hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about.

I know all about the backlash. There was plenty of coverage of the percentage of people who stopped playing completely. My experience with Guild Wars 2, admittedly this is just my own observations (but it’s backed up by what Anet has said) is that concurrency numbers are increasing.

When people make statements like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s player base because there was a backlash, my first reaction is to ask this….what about the people who didn’t backlash.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, in Eve was asking for a 90 dollar monocle. No one. People on this forums have asked for gear grind and raids and end game. As long as a percentage of people are asking for something, then Anet is listening to some of their players.

And if Eve’s devs are so highly regarded and thought after, if they’re so close to their fans, how did they EVER introduced a $90 monocle into their game. Did they think this was a service to their fans.

Stop causing your Eve hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about

because people there are not infallible, just as GW2 devs are not. Still, that does not change you post about stuff you have apparently no idea about.

Well you’d have to disagree with not just me. There was plenty of commentary at the time by Eve players about exactly what I’m saying. So if you’re disagreeing with me, you’re also disagreeing with a percentage of the Eve population.

Vayne.8563:

Well you’d have to disagree with not just me. There was plenty of commentary at the time by Eve players about exactly what I’m saying. So if you’re disagreeing with me, you’re also disagreeing with a percentage of the Eve population.

So, how many players of Eve do you know personally? And what does that reaction tell you about Eve devs? Sorry, stop musing about things remote from you still.

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

I know all about the backlash. There was plenty of coverage of the percentage of people who stopped playing completely. My experience with Guild Wars 2, admittedly this is just my own observations (but it’s backed up by what Anet has said) is that concurrency numbers are increasing.

When people make statements like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s player base because there was a backlash, my first reaction is to ask this….what about the people who didn’t backlash.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, in Eve was asking for a 90 dollar monocle. No one. People on this forums have asked for gear grind and raids and end game. As long as a percentage of people are asking for something, then Anet is listening to some of their players.

And if Eve’s devs are so highly regarded and thought after, if they’re so close to their fans, how did they EVER introduced a $90 monocle into their game. Did they think this was a service to their fans.

Stop causing your Eve hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about

because people there are not infallible, just as GW2 devs are not. Still, that does not change you post about stuff you have apparently no idea about.

Well you’d have to disagree with not just me. There was plenty of commentary at the time by Eve players about exactly what I’m saying. So if you’re disagreeing with me, you’re also disagreeing with a percentage of the Eve population.

[/quote]

So, how many players of Eve do you know personally? And what does that reaction tell you about Eve devs? Sorry, stop musing about things remote from you still.[/quote]

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

Vayne.8563:

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

I know all about the backlash. There was plenty of coverage of the percentage of people who stopped playing completely. My experience with Guild Wars 2, admittedly this is just my own observations (but it’s backed up by what Anet has said) is that concurrency numbers are increasing.

When people make statements like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s player base because there was a backlash, my first reaction is to ask this….what about the people who didn’t backlash.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, in Eve was asking for a 90 dollar monocle. No one. People on this forums have asked for gear grind and raids and end game. As long as a percentage of people are asking for something, then Anet is listening to some of their players.

And if Eve’s devs are so highly regarded and thought after, if they’re so close to their fans, how did they EVER introduced a $90 monocle into their game. Did they think this was a service to their fans.

Stop causing your Eve hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about

because people there are not infallible, just as GW2 devs are not. Still, that does not change you post about stuff you have apparently no idea about.

Well you’d have to disagree with not just me. There was plenty of commentary at the time by Eve players about exactly what I’m saying. So if you’re disagreeing with me, you’re also disagreeing with a percentage of the Eve population.

So, how many players of Eve do you know personally? And what does that reaction tell you about Eve devs? Sorry, stop musing about things remote from you still.[/quote]

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.[/quote]

a game which we both play as opposed to a game you did not play, I played quite for some years. But whatever, talking with you about GW2 is like discussing Carthago with Cato, have fun in here, I am out.

Vayne.8563:

I know all about the backlash.

You appear to know all about everything. But as an EVE player, I believe this is the point where I start skipping your posts. You just want to argue, and it doesn’t matter if you know what you are talking about or not.

Back to the subject at hand…

Edit: forums are really buggy today. Lots of timeouts – took several tries to make this post.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

You appear to know all about everything. I believe this is the point where I start skipping your posts. You just want to argue.

I don’t know about lots of things. For example, you’ll seldom see me weigh in on conversations about the current meta, or PvP…because I don’t know those things.

The MMO industry as an industry I used to follow quite closely because that interested me. I have many friends from many games, including people who have played Eve extensively. I tried Eve myself, but it was a bit too involved for me to play they way I’d have liked to.

You don’t like my opinions and that’s fair enough, but I comment in only a small percentage of threads and tend to stick to the ones that interest me (which are the ones I talk about).

As for you reading or not reading my posts, I suppose I’ll just have to somehow survive without it, though I’m totally crushed by this development.

I’ve stop playing completely due to the living grind cycle.

I started playing GW2 to get away from having to game on a schedule. No need to log in 2-4 times a week to raid or pvp. Was great until the addition of the living grind cycle. I played nearly everyday not because I had too but because I wanted too.

I enjoyed it at first, it seemed like each zone was going to be used for the living story and would be a permanent addition to the game. Of course that didn’t happen but the cycle was long enough that you didn’t need to game on a schedule you could skip a week or two and still stay current.
With the new 2 week cycle forget it , real life be kitten ed miss a week and oops you had stuff to take care of in the real world? sorry we removed that…. Better luck next time!

How do you even sell your friends on the idea hey come play GW2 come play this aweso… never mind they removed that, start playing next wee.. never mind they removed that too…

I truly enjoyed the game but the living story is taking the game in the wrong direction. I want content with substance something I can revisit 2 years from now and go kitten this was awesome back in the day.

Vortex.4780:

I’m on my way out from playing this game, all the new updates seem silly and the performance in this game is terrible. The game feels like a job and although I can be content at times with the game, I never have moments I consider “fun” anymore. I guess it was good while it lasted, now what to do with the 1000 gold I have saved up….

Send me some, I’m broke and attempting to craft my first legendary.

QuadJunky.2736:

I’ve stop playing completely due to the living grind cycle.

I started playing GW2 to get away from having to game on a schedule. No need to log in 2-4 times a week to raid or pvp. Was great until the addition of the living grind cycle. I played nearly everyday not because I had too but because I wanted too.

This is exactly what’s driven me away, too. I never felt behind in Guild Wars. In Guild Wars 2, I’ve missed so much of the Living Story, and am completely behind the gear grind, that I don’t even want to log in anymore. And I don’t.

I think this content has backfired on me. It was intended, I’m sure, to make people feel the need to log in. It’s had the very opposite effect on me. I can’t play the game how I want if I want – I have to be there or miss it forever. So I’m going to miss it all, now, and play something else.

Chuo.4238:

QuadJunky.2736:

I’ve stop playing completely due to the living grind cycle.

I started playing GW2 to get away from having to game on a schedule. No need to log in 2-4 times a week to raid or pvp. Was great until the addition of the living grind cycle. I played nearly everyday not because I had too but because I wanted too.

This is exactly what’s driven me away, too. I never felt behind in Guild Wars. In Guild Wars 2, I’ve missed so much of the Living Story, and am completely behind the gear grind, that I don’t even want to log in anymore. And I don’t.

I think this content has backfired on me. It was intended, I’m sure, to make people feel the need to log in. It’s had the very opposite effect on me. I can’t play the game how I want if I want – I have to be there or miss it forever. So I’m going to miss it all, now, and play something else.

What do you need to complete the living story for? If you don’t want to do something in the game, then don’t. I play 2 times a week and don’t feel behind at all. I have ascended trinkets on most of my 6 toons and they’re in all exotics atm too. That’s just running dungeons of fotm and doing whatever else I see for on my 2 nights off.

This game is only a grind if YOU make it a grind. I’m making it a grind atm because I’m attempting to acquire the mats for my legendary. But the only reason I don’t have the mats already was because I never saved them in the first place because I don’t care about crafting and didn’t care about a legendary.

Ascended gear only effects WvW in evenly matched fights. Other than that ascended gear means dog kitten. I was effectively killing ppl with up leveled toons in greens. In the end the gear is there for your choice to obtain it or not. Unless youre in a 1v1 vs a player of equal skill, ascended gear will never matter. As many ppl have stated and shown this game is actually about skill not just gear.

Treborlavok.3504:

Chuo.4238:

QuadJunky.2736:

I’ve stop playing completely due to the living grind cycle.

I started playing GW2 to get away from having to game on a schedule. No need to log in 2-4 times a week to raid or pvp. Was great until the addition of the living grind cycle. I played nearly everyday not because I had too but because I wanted too.

This is exactly what’s driven me away, too. I never felt behind in Guild Wars. In Guild Wars 2, I’ve missed so much of the Living Story, and am completely behind the gear grind, that I don’t even want to log in anymore. And I don’t.

I think this content has backfired on me. It was intended, I’m sure, to make people feel the need to log in. It’s had the very opposite effect on me. I can’t play the game how I want if I want – I have to be there or miss it forever. So I’m going to miss it all, now, and play something else.

What do you need to complete the living story for? If you don’t want to do something in the game, then don’t. I play 2 times a week and don’t feel behind at all. I have ascended trinkets on most of my 6 toons and they’re in all exotics atm too. That’s just running dungeons of fotm and doing whatever else I see for on my 2 nights off.

This game is only a grind if YOU make it a grind. I’m making it a grind atm because I’m attempting to acquire the mats for my legendary. But the only reason I don’t have the mats already was because I never saved them in the first place because I don’t care about crafting and didn’t care about a legendary.

Ascended gear only effects WvW in evenly matched fights. Other than that ascended gear means dog kitten. I was effectively killing ppl with up leveled toons in greens. In the end the gear is there for your choice to obtain it or not. Unless youre in a 1v1 vs a player of equal skill, ascended gear will never matter. As many ppl have stated and shown this game is actually about skill not just gear.

I think it’s mostly about feeling manipulated. I realize that technically I could just ignore LS, and ignore Ascended…but I still feel like I’m being subtly manipulated into those directions. Especially because they’re the only content that ArenaNet are working on. So even if I decided to keep playing, and just ignore LS and Ascended, well, I’m stuck with the original content from launch, which has been played to death anyway.

But the bigger point is that I really feel like they’re trying to manipulate me into spending time in GW2 by giving me the feeling that I’ll be missing out on the stat points and achievement points if I don’t log in for the period of time the content is around, doing dailies, doing time-gated activites, and the like.

Instead of providing content that makes me actually want to spend time in GW2, they’re trying to make me feel like I need to spend time in GW2, and that’s a huge turn-off, because I sure as heck don’t need to play GW2. I’m absolutely not going to pay for content that makes me feel that way. I can find other ways to have fun, and they don’t necessarily even have to be video games.

Chuo.4238:

Treborlavok.3504:

Chuo.4238:

QuadJunky.2736:

I’ve stop playing completely due to the living grind cycle.

I started playing GW2 to get away from having to game on a schedule. No need to log in 2-4 times a week to raid or pvp. Was great until the addition of the living grind cycle. I played nearly everyday not because I had too but because I wanted too.

This is exactly what’s driven me away, too. I never felt behind in Guild Wars. In Guild Wars 2, I’ve missed so much of the Living Story, and am completely behind the gear grind, that I don’t even want to log in anymore. And I don’t.

I think this content has backfired on me. It was intended, I’m sure, to make people feel the need to log in. It’s had the very opposite effect on me. I can’t play the game how I want if I want – I have to be there or miss it forever. So I’m going to miss it all, now, and play something else.

What do you need to complete the living story for? If you don’t want to do something in the game, then don’t. I play 2 times a week and don’t feel behind at all. I have ascended trinkets on most of my 6 toons and they’re in all exotics atm too. That’s just running dungeons of fotm and doing whatever else I see for on my 2 nights off.

This game is only a grind if YOU make it a grind. I’m making it a grind atm because I’m attempting to acquire the mats for my legendary. But the only reason I don’t have the mats already was because I never saved them in the first place because I don’t care about crafting and didn’t care about a legendary.

Ascended gear only effects WvW in evenly matched fights. Other than that ascended gear means dog kitten. I was effectively killing ppl with up leveled toons in greens. In the end the gear is there for your choice to obtain it or not. Unless youre in a 1v1 vs a player of equal skill, ascended gear will never matter. As many ppl have stated and shown this game is actually about skill not just gear.

I think it’s mostly about feeling manipulated. I realize that technically I could just ignore LS, and ignore Ascended…but I still feel like I’m being subtly manipulated into those directions. Especially because they’re the only content that ArenaNet are working on. So even if I decided to keep playing, and just ignore LS and Ascended, well, I’m stuck with the original content from launch, which has been played to death anyway.

But the bigger point is that I really feel like they’re trying to manipulate me into spending time in GW2 by giving me the feeling that I’ll be missing out on the stat points and achievement points if I don’t log in for the period of time the content is around, doing dailies, doing time-gated activites, and the like.

Instead of providing content that makes me actually want to spend time in GW2, they’re trying to make me feel like I need to spend time in GW2, and that’s a huge turn-off, because I sure as heck don’t need to play GW2. I’m absolutely not going to pay for content that makes me feel that way. I can find other ways to have fun, and they don’t necessarily even have to be video games.

I understand 100% and I also agree. Especially about making you feel like you need to log in. Thats what annoys me about dailies and laurels the most. From a developing and statistical stand point, they’re doing it right. They’re getting the players to feel that need. I agree that the game shouldn’t be focused on that need. They need to stick to permanent content and just avoid this bs living story. Yea things like sab are fun and quirky but those don’t need to be permanent. But they also shouldn’t have a strict time constraint on them either. Unless its something like a holiday type event, I can see that obviously not being permanent content, just yearly for ‘x’ time. I’m sure everyone wants permanent dungeons and new continents to explore, as do I.

I’d be 100% happy if we were still only able to get exotics, aside from legendaries. And then they just kept rolling out with new dungeons and events and areas that were permanent.

i agree with chuo, there are times i would log back in, but when i ask my self why and what to do if i log back i come up with nothing, i guess i could just chat with my friends that are still playing, but do i need a game environment to do so?
and when i see what is to come to the next fast update i still see same content revamped or reworked but it still the same old content.
things like tequatl rising are what arenanet didn’t yet understad, they’ll do this boss harder, there will be probably a lot of grindy achievement attached to it, some of them time gated as usual, like kill tequatl 14 times in different hours of the day or once a day whatever. some click f near here for 150 times, and than when the event is over and everybody will have their new wings backpack (which is also the only gear we have all this variety and also the only gear we can’t craft or buy exotic at tp, and grind for ascended version) nobody will bother to kill tequatl anymore because it will take time and effort, like the karka queen or some of the temple. arenanet when try to design challenging content usually come up with punishing content, so we will get punished for playing this game one more time.

and despite every fast update i still don’t know what to do in this game anymore unless i have to log in in order to not fall behind in gear progression, laurel hoarding, or karma hoarding or whatever it is i have to do now to waste my time with zero content and zero story to be told (why should i care about ascended anyway when fractal is the only dungeon with no story attached to it and no reason to increase in level difficulty? why should i go fractal 80 instead of 10? also if they’ll gate future content with agony resistance just for the sake of give reason to all this new crap, wouldn’t even be a worse game?).
so i guess i’m stopping playing 8it is already a week i don’t log in), i only have to find some nice thing to say to my guildies and friends yet remaining.

oh and to finish in beauty, in october they will revamp class and traits again… so my guess is the ascended grind will start again in october when people will be forced to change their builds by their idea of revamping to promote build diversity in a game where at the moment there is no deep difference between any of the 8 class other than the weapon they can use and if they can build for direct damage

i realized i have something else to say.
i see people denying the game is grindy talking about how easy it was to get the new ascended weapon, six day for a casual i read and no more than 58g.

no defender said something like:
it was awesome to get it, all that chain quests to do in order to get the materials, all those nice instance stories to go through and so much nice new mechanic to try in order to finish the quests…

i guess it wasn’t that fun doing it, just routine… and some more jumping in a not 8 bit content this time

Vayne.8563:

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

I know all about the backlash. There was plenty of coverage of the percentage of people who stopped playing completely. My experience with Guild Wars 2, admittedly this is just my own observations (but it’s backed up by what Anet has said) is that concurrency numbers are increasing.

When people make statements like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s player base because there was a backlash, my first reaction is to ask this….what about the people who didn’t backlash.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, in Eve was asking for a 90 dollar monocle. No one. People on this forums have asked for gear grind and raids and end game. As long as a percentage of people are asking for something, then Anet is listening to some of their players.

And if Eve’s devs are so highly regarded and thought after, if they’re so close to their fans, how did they EVER introduced a $90 monocle into their game. Did they think this was a service to their fans.

Stop causing your Eve hierophantism make you posting assumptions about games you apparently do not know much about

because people there are not infallible, just as GW2 devs are not. Still, that does not change you post about stuff you have apparently no idea about.

Well you’d have to disagree with not just me. There was plenty of commentary at the time by Eve players about exactly what I’m saying. So if you’re disagreeing with me, you’re also disagreeing with a percentage of the Eve population.

So, how many players of Eve do you know personally? And what does that reaction tell you about Eve devs? Sorry, stop musing about things remote from you still.

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

I play EVE myself. I have for years and I say you know little to nothing simply because you are not talking from first hand experience.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM

CCP has the best Dev to Player relationship I’ve seen in MMOs. As for my experience there?

Piranha Games w/ MWO
Blizzard w/ WoW & D3
NCSoft w/ Aion
ANet w/ GW1 & GW2
Cryptic Studios w/ NeverWinter
CCP w/ EVE

There were a few times where CCP made changes to EVE while not listening to the player’s warnings. It has come back to bite them each time. It also helps that EVE’s player base are very connected to each other (single shard, corp alliances and smaller population size) so we can act against choices.

Edit: Just so that it is clear what the CSM is….

http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/

I used to play eve. I wish I could go back but I just dont have the $$$ to pay every month. Everything about Eve is better. The battles are more organized. The community is tighter knit. The economy is MUCH better run. The only grind that exists is the waiting game, since it is entirely time gated game. Of course gathering money is difficult if you are like me. But I have never been able to make money in any mmo ever.

Speaking of which, kitten anet for making the economy go into hyper inflation. Now I can’t even afford to regear into greens. Rabid greens are 20 silver plus !! Karma is so slow to get too…

and kitten anet for making it impossible to mystic forge exotics of different types, and exotics purchased from wvw.

and kitten anet for making wvw completely unprofitable.

and kitten anet for deviating from their manifesto. I bought this game because of that hype. If I knew it was going to turn into this “grind fest pve wars 2” I never would have bought it. Liars and swindlers are what they are, the lot of them.

First ascended weapon gotten. Still think the requirements are too much. Still think gear disparity is gonna be a problem in WvW.

Deamhan.9538:

Vayne.8563:

Algreg.3629:

Vayne.8563:

I know all about the backlash. There was plenty of coverage of the percentage of people who stopped playing completely. My experience with Guild Wars 2, admittedly this is just my own observations (but it’s backed up by what Anet has said) is that concurrency numbers are increasing.

When people make statements like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s player base because there was a backlash, my first reaction is to ask this….what about the people who didn’t backlash.

Snip

because people there are not infallible, just as GW2 devs are not. Still, that does not change you post about stuff you have apparently no idea about.

Well you’d have to disagree with not just me. There was plenty of commentary at the time by Eve players about exactly what I’m saying. So if you’re disagreeing with me, you’re also disagreeing with a percentage of the Eve population.

So, how many players of Eve do you know personally? And what does that reaction tell you about Eve devs? Sorry, stop musing about things remote from you still.

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

I play EVE myself. I have for years and I say you know little to nothing simply because you are not talking from first hand experience.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM

CCP has the best Dev to Player relationship I’ve seen in MMOs. As for my experience there?

Piranha Games w/ MWO
Blizzard w/ WoW & D3
NCSoft w/ Aion
ANet w/ GW1 & GW2
Cryptic Studios w/ NeverWinter
CCP w/ EVE

There were a few times where CCP made changes to EVE while not listening to the player’s warnings. It has come back to bite them each time. It also helps that EVE’s player base are very connected to each other (single shard, corp alliances and smaller population size) so we can act against choices.

Edit: Just so that it is clear what the CSM is….

http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/

So which of the players that CCP is so close to longed for a $90 monocle? They tried to push the envelope to get away with something to see if it flew. It’s not about “listening to players”, it’s about being a niche game that has a very very definite existence.

Where you SEE a company that listens to players, I see a company that is interested in making money. They created a niche and because of that very specific focus, they can appeal to that very specific player base. It’s easy to look at them and say they listen to players. In reality, they’re providing precisely what players want…but it may not be because they’re listening. That’s an assumption. It might very well be what they were planning to do anyway…because their focus is pretty much one very specific type of player. You can do that in a sandbox, because the content is mostly player made. Very few people are playing Eve for the PvE elements.

Now let’s look at Guild Wars 2. Oh look, it’s a completely different type of game. You’re comparing a sandbox with user made content, with a theme park MMO. That’s the first issue. Then you’re comparing a theme park that is trying to have broad based appeal with no subscription fee, with a focused game that has a subscription fee.

See if Guild Wars 2 listened to one minority, focused on one minority, and had no subscription fee, I don’t think it could exist at all. And I think Anet saw where the majority lie.

So you have people that don’t like where the game is going…but are they the majority of players…that’s the question.

Anet doesn’t listen to it’s playerbase? Or is the player base simple for more fragmented than Eve’s.

Because you talk about all Eve players being more on the same page and more connected, and that’s very likely true. Does that mean that CCP is actually listening to their players, or does it mean it’s a lot easier to make it LOOK LIKE they’re listening to their players?

Maybe I haven’t played Eve first hand, but I’ve run businesses, and CCP has done some smart things. Anet has also done some smart things.

But because the two companies have completely different games in different genres and different situations, it’s certainly set up to look like Anet doesn’t listen to it’s players.

Pray tell, how can any company listen to all it’s players when the player base is so fractured (unlike Eve’s)?

So much facepalm from this thread.
If you think getting 180 iron ingots and his buddies is grind you’re wrong in the head.