Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

The splitting of the rewards was so that you would feel like you had a reason to go do the raid everyday. You may not like how they decided to handle the rewards but the suggestion I made was to appease players like you.

There’s a difference between not getting what you’re saying and not agreeing with what you’re saying. I’m the latter.

Splitting the reward doesn’t even come into question.

This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough.

If they can farm it let them and fix the dang encounters, so that people want to run it more than once a week and not feel guilt tripped into bringing their guild in because their schedules don’t add up.

How freaking complex is that ?

Seriously. You got hung up on rewards and entirely missed the dang point.

OR to paraphrase CJ himself…..

Well I think at a broad level, the decisions we’ve made make raiding a lot more approachable in Guild Wars 2 than other games. From our combat to a lack of attunements, to the more fluid role-based system, and I think we’ll see a large percentage of people at least try them. What they’ll see when they get in there is that it works really well in our game. We don’t try to exclude anybody.

Except for this one specific decision which should be change.

Again, the weekly rewards was a design choice decided by Anet. You don’t have to like it. Splitting the rewards across the days of the weekly so you had a reason to do the content was a suggestion that I had to appease you. If you dont like it then “you’re gonna have a bad time”.

Splitting the rewards doesn’t appease me or was that not made evident ?

You’re playing the fallacy card to its finest and looking pretty bad while doing it.

What i’ve been saying is, make the content both hard and rewarding…..simple no ?

Exactly when did nerf rewards come into the equation ?

It only came in because you tossed it in to make the fallacy occur. You can have both hard and rewarding and not have it limited.

Now then any other logical fallacies you wish to portray outside of the baseless ad-hominem or ignoratio elenchi ?

It will be difficult/challenging. It will be rewarding. Your issue is that you want to do it on a daily basis and be rewarded despite Anet’s design plan to limit the rewards on a weekly basis. The splitting of rewards across the days was so that you would get your daily reward but maintain the same limitations that Anet has currently planned.

There’s no fallacy here. The only issue is you not reading my posts as I’ve stated this multiple times now. The fact of the matter is that rewards will be given on a weekly basis like they currently are for guild missions. You can accept that or not.

Or I can advocate a much better system that appeases both sides and doesn’t actually take away from either side.

Which is what i’ve been doing, and why you’ve been hellbent on missing the point.

Carry on, ignoring it. You’re batting 1000 so far.

Difficult content sounds amazing, but if I miss the guild raid night because I have to work, or eat food, or something, then I miss out on the reward for that week..because good luck getting a good party outside of guilds.

And if I have a permanent conflict on “raid night” then I will never really be able to get the rewards. Even the bigger guilds might not want to do more than one “raid night” a week to appease the people who miss out the first time.

Or, why should I spend the 2-3 or more hours to help out the people who did miss the content because they had to work/sleep/whatever, if I’m not going to get anything out of it because I’ve already done it for the week. It excludes people, which you would think, is counter to the very statements has made about raids.

Draknar.5748:

PvP armor and titles locked behind PvP,

Skin

fractal skins locked behind fractals,

Skin

WvW weapons/titles locked behind WvW (tournaments no less),

Skin again

Living Story armor,

Primarily a skin, given that its rare stats. People aren’t going for this for stats or functionality, with the exception of the the ascended trinkets, and again I’ve argued that locking those to only be initially obtainable via collections might be pushing the limit. I’ve always felt that people need to have access to those stat sets in other ways.

titles,

Entirely cosmetic. Locking these behind collections, pvp, whatever, is perfectly fine. They offer no additional perk of any kind.

weapons locked behind PvE,

Very few are hard locked behind pve anymore. Ascended is an obvious exception, and if you look at my previous post, I have issues with that’s set up too.

Now, if you’re talking the existing legendaries, well, I’ve been an advocate for some time now for mode specific legendaries.

weapons and titles locked behind Raids

Skins and cosmetics, all fine

raid armor,

Because it’s top actual armor, and armor with a perk. Won’t go so far as to say an advantage (though some will). Its not the same as just a unqiue cosmetic. Tequatl has a unique set of weapons for example, and that’s fine. You can get ascended weapons other ways, Teq’s just have a unique skin. There is NO OTHER WAY to get legendary armor. Period.

Raid lock out timers as in how guild missions currently work? You can do guild missions as much as you want, but you and your guild only get credit once a week. You can get rewards once a week, but can run the raid to your heart’s content. Seems about on par with how they’ve done current content.

And how many guilds actually do more guild missions that they wont get credit for? I don’t know of any.

How many people do you think are going to raid more than that once a week (after people learn mechanics). Probably not many, which means smaller pool of people to seek to do it with, even if doing it with your guild. People don’t enjoy doing content that don’t get kitten for.

Did you think you were pointing out some paradigm shift in GW2? Because you really only pointed out that Raids exist and will be in line with how they currently handle all of their other content….

Just on step closer to the WoW clone people want. Is it some massive change? No, but baby steps in the wrong direction are still detrimental.

Dahkeus.8243:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them.

But this is a good decision.

You shouldn’t be entitled to every reward in the game when you don’t play every aspect in the game.

Let me repeat this:

You shouldn’t be entitled to every reward in the game when you don’t play every aspect in the game.

Should there be legendary armor for other areas of the game? Maybe, but they don’t need to be the same legendary sets. People who focus and perform very well in specific areas of the game need to have unique rewards to reflect this. That’s why stuff like the Glorious Hero’s Armor, which is was available only to achieving PvPers was good.

Does this mean that people who only like PvE will never fill out all their skin collections? Yup. And ya know what? That’s not a bad thing.

smh

Please read what I said again. I am fine with raids having it’s own unique skins. I’m even fine with it having any actual legendary set with a unique skin. However, my issue is that raids are THE ONLY WAY to obtain legendary armor, which is wrong. They need other legendary armor sets, available via other means. Be that through WvW, through PvE collection hunts and crafting, or PvP. Hell, maybe even a set for each, and yet another one for just fractals. Then we can play collect all 5.

I’m fine with not having everything because I don’t play every aspect of the game. However, something like legendaries (which were put forth as the ultimate end game goal) should not be locked behind only one specific method. This is telling PvPers, WvWers, and all other non-raiders to kitten off.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them.

Actually, what they said was it’s the only way to obtain the Legendary Raid armor set.

I wouldn’t be suprised to see an alternate set of non-raid legendary armor with a different skin, or a craftable “gift of legends” to upgrade an ascended to legendary status without any special skin changes.

PopeUrban.2578:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them.

Actually, what they said was it’s the only way to obtain the Legendary Raid armor set.

I wouldn’t be suprised to see an alternate set of non-raid legendary armor with a different skin, or a craftable “gift of legends” to upgrade an ascended to legendary status without any special skin changes.

Here’s to hoping there are other legendary armor options.

PopeUrban.2578:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them.

Actually, what they said was it’s the only way to obtain the Legendary Raid armor set.

I wouldn’t be suprised to see an alternate set of non-raid legendary armor with a different skin, or a craftable “gift of legends” to upgrade an ascended to legendary status without any special skin changes.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if for the first 6 months or so the only legendary armor in the game is the raid version to entice more players to try the content out who might not otherwise try it out. Not to mention they would have to do something to make other means take about the same time on average. So either really bad RNG or time gated requirements that you can’t buy your way out of.

Hopefully, they still reward doing raids even if you’ve done them more than once per week. If the rewards are still good for them, it may not be so bad that the super special drops only happen once per week per account. But I’m not holding my breath on that given how rewards are for other aspects of the game.

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

The splitting of the rewards was so that you would feel like you had a reason to go do the raid everyday. You may not like how they decided to handle the rewards but the suggestion I made was to appease players like you.

There’s a difference between not getting what you’re saying and not agreeing with what you’re saying. I’m the latter.

Splitting the reward doesn’t even come into question.

This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough.

If they can farm it let them and fix the dang encounters, so that people want to run it more than once a week and not feel guilt tripped into bringing their guild in because their schedules don’t add up.

How freaking complex is that ?

Seriously. You got hung up on rewards and entirely missed the dang point.

OR to paraphrase CJ himself…..

Well I think at a broad level, the decisions we’ve made make raiding a lot more approachable in Guild Wars 2 than other games. From our combat to a lack of attunements, to the more fluid role-based system, and I think we’ll see a large percentage of people at least try them. What they’ll see when they get in there is that it works really well in our game. We don’t try to exclude anybody.

Except for this one specific decision which should be change.

Again, the weekly rewards was a design choice decided by Anet. You don’t have to like it. Splitting the rewards across the days of the weekly so you had a reason to do the content was a suggestion that I had to appease you. If you dont like it then “you’re gonna have a bad time”.

Splitting the rewards doesn’t appease me or was that not made evident ?

You’re playing the fallacy card to its finest and looking pretty bad while doing it.

What i’ve been saying is, make the content both hard and rewarding…..simple no ?

Exactly when did nerf rewards come into the equation ?

It only came in because you tossed it in to make the fallacy occur. You can have both hard and rewarding and not have it limited.

Now then any other logical fallacies you wish to portray outside of the baseless ad-hominem or ignoratio elenchi ?

It will be difficult/challenging. It will be rewarding. Your issue is that you want to do it on a daily basis and be rewarded despite Anet’s design plan to limit the rewards on a weekly basis. The splitting of rewards across the days was so that you would get your daily reward but maintain the same limitations that Anet has currently planned.

There’s no fallacy here. The only issue is you not reading my posts as I’ve stated this multiple times now. The fact of the matter is that rewards will be given on a weekly basis like they currently are for guild missions. You can accept that or not.

Or I can advocate a much better system that appeases both sides and doesn’t actually take away from either side.

Which is what i’ve been doing, and why you’ve been hellbent on missing the point.

Carry on, ignoring it. You’re batting 1000 so far.

Except you’re not doing that.

You think it’s a design flaw if it can be farmed. Anet wants everyone to be able to beat it so tailoring the difficulty to the top players so that they would not be able to farm it, which would be bad design according to you if they could, would be bad and not with their intentions. It makes it near impossible for them to complete it which is something you pointed out that you don’t mind when you said you did not agree with them not wanting to exclude anyone.

Edit: Refer I the following post of yours

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Just-glorious/first#post5448109

You state “This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough”. You also quote Colin where at the end he stated “We don’t try to exclude anybody” which was bolded by you. Your response was that “Except for this one specific decision which should be changed.”. You were referring to what was bolded.

PopeUrban.2578:

Actually, what they said was it’s the only way to obtain the Legendary Raid armor set.

Actually no, re-read the blog.

“Secondly, raids will introduce the very first ever set of legendary armor. This isn’t any ordinary armor set! Similarly to legendary weapons, you’ll be able to change the stats that the armor provides. When entering combat, you’ll become a beacon of your heroic deeds as the armor set comes to life, animating around you. Only the bravest of heroes will be able to collect and craft these legendary threads.”

Now granted this article isn’t covering other aspects of the release so we are working on limited information. The point stands though that if its the single source of the best gear then we do have a gear grind going on. And yes I am one of those saying this is superior gear since it includes any stat combo you could want without the price of mats, gold, karma, time and everything else that acquiring each of those stat sets separately would cost let alone require to store when not in use. And again, was planning on raiding anyway but since its not just a skin, that’s the issue if Legendaries’ materials can not be acquired elsewhere as well.

Jaxom.7310:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them.

this guy gits it

Yeah, just one more thing I am pushed out of WvW for in order to acquire it. As a primarily WvW focused player, I am beginning to feel punished for sticking to what I enjoy, by having to leave it to have any access to such things.

And again, hopefully the follow up post isn’t far down the road with more details. Downside to these bite sized bits is limited information can lead to false assumptions.

StrangerDanger.3496:

If I’m not mistaken people did ask for exactly this. Locking stuff behind difficult group content is what makes the effort to learn the raid and coordinate properly work it.

Not just did the “hardcore raider” asked for this, ArenaNet also knows by this point that the only thing that will encourage players to try this “challenging content” is through “phat lewt.” Challenge is a God awful motivator for gamers, and if you give them an “easier” route to the same reward, gamers will take that easier route 99 times out of 100.

Not only did they have to come up with unique rewards, they HAD to make those rewards exclusive, otherwise only 5% of the player base would even show interest in going particularly far.

What I don’t think they realize is that it isn’t going to matter at the end of the day. The MMO player base actually DOESN’T like challenge. They DON’T like forming raids, and they WILL ignore GW2’s attempts just as much as every other game’s attempts.

TheGrimm.5624:

PopeUrban.2578:

Actually, what they said was it’s the only way to obtain the Legendary Raid armor set.

Actually no, re-read the blog.

“Secondly, raids will introduce the very first ever set of legendary armor. This isn’t any ordinary armor set! Similarly to legendary weapons, you’ll be able to change the stats that the armor provides. When entering combat, you’ll become a beacon of your heroic deeds as the armor set comes to life, animating around you. Only the bravest of heroes will be able to collect and craft these legendary threads.”

Now granted this article isn’t covering other aspects of the release so we are working on limited information. The point stands though that if its the single source of the best gear then we do have a gear grind going on. And yes I am one of those saying this is superior gear since it includes any stat combo you could want without the price of mats, gold, karma, time and everything else that acquiring each of those stat sets separately would cost let alone require to store when not in use. And again, was planning on raiding anyway but since its not just a skin, that’s the issue if Legendaries’ materials can not be acquired elsewhere as well.

“Very first”

not

“only”

Doggie.3184:

Will my Sylvari finally get a Legendary Neko Armor set with tail, cat ears and a collar shoulder piece with a twinkling bell? I can’t imagine what else would be Legendary tier?

Anything else but that?

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

The splitting of the rewards was so that you would feel like you had a reason to go do the raid everyday. You may not like how they decided to handle the rewards but the suggestion I made was to appease players like you.

There’s a difference between not getting what you’re saying and not agreeing with what you’re saying. I’m the latter.

Splitting the reward doesn’t even come into question.

This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough.

If they can farm it let them and fix the dang encounters, so that people want to run it more than once a week and not feel guilt tripped into bringing their guild in because their schedules don’t add up.

How freaking complex is that ?

Seriously. You got hung up on rewards and entirely missed the dang point.

OR to paraphrase CJ himself…..

Well I think at a broad level, the decisions we’ve made make raiding a lot more approachable in Guild Wars 2 than other games. From our combat to a lack of attunements, to the more fluid role-based system, and I think we’ll see a large percentage of people at least try them. What they’ll see when they get in there is that it works really well in our game. We don’t try to exclude anybody.

Except for this one specific decision which should be change.

Again, the weekly rewards was a design choice decided by Anet. You don’t have to like it. Splitting the rewards across the days of the weekly so you had a reason to do the content was a suggestion that I had to appease you. If you dont like it then “you’re gonna have a bad time”.

Splitting the rewards doesn’t appease me or was that not made evident ?

You’re playing the fallacy card to its finest and looking pretty bad while doing it.

What i’ve been saying is, make the content both hard and rewarding…..simple no ?

Exactly when did nerf rewards come into the equation ?

It only came in because you tossed it in to make the fallacy occur. You can have both hard and rewarding and not have it limited.

Now then any other logical fallacies you wish to portray outside of the baseless ad-hominem or ignoratio elenchi ?

It will be difficult/challenging. It will be rewarding. Your issue is that you want to do it on a daily basis and be rewarded despite Anet’s design plan to limit the rewards on a weekly basis. The splitting of rewards across the days was so that you would get your daily reward but maintain the same limitations that Anet has currently planned.

There’s no fallacy here. The only issue is you not reading my posts as I’ve stated this multiple times now. The fact of the matter is that rewards will be given on a weekly basis like they currently are for guild missions. You can accept that or not.

Or I can advocate a much better system that appeases both sides and doesn’t actually take away from either side.

Which is what i’ve been doing, and why you’ve been hellbent on missing the point.

Carry on, ignoring it. You’re batting 1000 so far.

Except you’re not doing that.

You think it’s a design flaw if it can be farmed. Anet wants everyone to be able to beat it so tailoring the difficulty to the top players so that they would not be able to farm it, which would be bad design according to you if they could, would be bad and not with their intentions. It makes it near impossible for them to complete it which is something you pointed out that you don’t mind when you said you did not agree with them not wanting to exclude anyone.

Edit: Refer I the following post of yours

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Just-glorious/first#post5448109

You state “This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough”. You also quote Colin where at the end he stated “We don’t try to exclude anybody” which was bolded by you. Your response was that “Except for this one specific decision which should be changed.”. You were referring to what was bolded.

My god….

If it’s being farmed, is it hard enough ? Probably not.
If it’s being farmed, should it still be rewarding ? Yes.

Is it right to exclude players to a once a week schedule ? No
Does having it limited to a weekly reward increase the chance of exclusion? Yes

Im done explaining this to you, i really am. At this point you are seriously seriously missing the point.

Players should be properly rewarded for all actions and not excluded due to an artificial barrier.

There’s better ways to accomplish both and we have the ability to do so.

We already have a daily check system, and a system that rewards for event completion. Combine the two and you have a perfect way to reward players every time they complete and do said content without limiting them to an artificial schedule which limits player involvement. Something ANet said they don’t want to do.

Coulter.2315:

Jaxom.7310:

Coulter.2315:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set.

You don’t know what 2 of the words in this sentence mean. (unique and only)

You don’t know what 1 of the words in this sentence mean. (a)

the guy says there should be rewards for the content u can/want to play. should be a set of legendary gear for wvw. should be a set of legendary gear for pvp.

etc etc

It can’t be unique to raids if it is obtainable from other sources.

I do not feel the issue is with raids having unique gear that is unobtainable from other sources. The issue is other sources do not get unique and unobtainable gear of their own outside of PvP.

I think they should handle the rewards like pvp reward tracks, small chests that you get for beating it, and then every X number of completions, you get a massive reward. Not only does it incentive doing the raid more than once a week, it allows those that missed it on “raid day” to still get something out of it, and those who already got a little daily chest, can progress to the next day/or big awesome chest.

PopeUrban.2578:

TheGrimm.5624:

PopeUrban.2578:

Actually, what they said was it’s the only way to obtain the Legendary Raid armor set.

Actually no, re-read the blog.

“Secondly, raids will introduce the very first ever set of legendary armor. This isn’t any ordinary armor set! Similarly to legendary weapons, you’ll be able to change the stats that the armor provides. When entering combat, you’ll become a beacon of your heroic deeds as the armor set comes to life, animating around you. Only the bravest of heroes will be able to collect and craft these legendary threads.”

Now granted this article isn’t covering other aspects of the release so we are working on limited information. The point stands though that if its the single source of the best gear then we do have a gear grind going on. And yes I am one of those saying this is superior gear since it includes any stat combo you could want without the price of mats, gold, karma, time and everything else that acquiring each of those stat sets separately would cost let alone require to store when not in use. And again, was planning on raiding anyway but since its not just a skin, that’s the issue if Legendaries’ materials can not be acquired elsewhere as well.

“Very first”

not

“only”

Agree about first which is what is creating this issue, first does not mean only but until a second way is announced it is the only way. The funny part is I want these armor sets to be annoying to get and require a lot of game resources to craft, they are Legendary after all, but I still want people doing different parts of the game tough ways to get them too since they are useful outside of the raids. This isn’t like Agony resistance where you only need it in one spot of the game like fractals. This armor comes into play in WvW, Fractals, Raids and others. If it was only a skin, then no worries, but its not.

Ascended was introduced through fractals and later acquirable through other methods. I expect legendary armor and backpacks to follow the same route, only with different skins since the skins rather than the stats are a much bigger part of legendaries.

I doubt they want to cut non-raiders off from the very option od acquiring the functionality of legendaries. Though I’m absolutely certain they want to cut non-raiders off from getting the specific look of raid legendaires (and in my opinion this is the right move)

My only problem with this is ONCE A WEEK.

I really really hate that part….

PopeUrban.2578:

Ascended was introduced through fractals and later acquirable through other methods. I expect legendary armor and backpacks to follow the same route, only with different skins since the skins rather than the stats are a much bigger part of legendaries.

I doubt they want to cut non-raiders off from the very option od acquiring the functionality of legendaries. Though I’m absolutely certain they want to cut non-raiders off from getting the specific look of raid legendaires (and in my opinion this is the right move)

Agree. As I said part of this might be because of the bite sized information they are releasing.

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

The splitting of the rewards was so that you would feel like you had a reason to go do the raid everyday. You may not like how they decided to handle the rewards but the suggestion I made was to appease players like you.

There’s a difference between not getting what you’re saying and not agreeing with what you’re saying. I’m the latter.

Splitting the reward doesn’t even come into question.

This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough.

If they can farm it let them and fix the dang encounters, so that people want to run it more than once a week and not feel guilt tripped into bringing their guild in because their schedules don’t add up.

How freaking complex is that ?

Seriously. You got hung up on rewards and entirely missed the dang point.

OR to paraphrase CJ himself…..

Well I think at a broad level, the decisions we’ve made make raiding a lot more approachable in Guild Wars 2 than other games. From our combat to a lack of attunements, to the more fluid role-based system, and I think we’ll see a large percentage of people at least try them. What they’ll see when they get in there is that it works really well in our game. We don’t try to exclude anybody.

Except for this one specific decision which should be change.

Again, the weekly rewards was a design choice decided by Anet. You don’t have to like it. Splitting the rewards across the days of the weekly so you had a reason to do the content was a suggestion that I had to appease you. If you dont like it then “you’re gonna have a bad time”.

Splitting the rewards doesn’t appease me or was that not made evident ?

You’re playing the fallacy card to its finest and looking pretty bad while doing it.

What i’ve been saying is, make the content both hard and rewarding…..simple no ?

Exactly when did nerf rewards come into the equation ?

It only came in because you tossed it in to make the fallacy occur. You can have both hard and rewarding and not have it limited.

Now then any other logical fallacies you wish to portray outside of the baseless ad-hominem or ignoratio elenchi ?

It will be difficult/challenging. It will be rewarding. Your issue is that you want to do it on a daily basis and be rewarded despite Anet’s design plan to limit the rewards on a weekly basis. The splitting of rewards across the days was so that you would get your daily reward but maintain the same limitations that Anet has currently planned.

There’s no fallacy here. The only issue is you not reading my posts as I’ve stated this multiple times now. The fact of the matter is that rewards will be given on a weekly basis like they currently are for guild missions. You can accept that or not.

Or I can advocate a much better system that appeases both sides and doesn’t actually take away from either side.

Which is what i’ve been doing, and why you’ve been hellbent on missing the point.

Carry on, ignoring it. You’re batting 1000 so far.

Except you’re not doing that.

You think it’s a design flaw if it can be farmed. Anet wants everyone to be able to beat it so tailoring the difficulty to the top players so that they would not be able to farm it, which would be bad design according to you if they could, would be bad and not with their intentions. It makes it near impossible for them to complete it which is something you pointed out that you don’t mind when you said you did not agree with them not wanting to exclude anyone.

Edit: Refer I the following post of yours

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Just-glorious/first#post5448109

You state “This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough”. You also quote Colin where at the end he stated “We don’t try to exclude anybody” which was bolded by you. Your response was that “Except for this one specific decision which should be changed.”. You were referring to what was bolded.

My god….

If it’s being farmed, is it hard enough ? Probably not.
If it’s being farmed, should it still be rewarding ? Yes.

Is it right to exclude players to a once a week schedule ? No
Does having it limited to a weekly reward increase the chance of exclusion? Yes

Im done explaining this to you, i really am. At this point you are seriously seriously missing the point.

Players should be properly rewarded for all actions and not excluded due to an artificial barrier.

There’s better ways to accomplish both and we have the ability to do so.

We already have a daily check system, and a system that rewards for event completion. Combine the two and you have a perfect way to reward players every time they complete and do said content without limiting them to an artificial schedule which limits player involvement. Something ANet said they don’t want to do.

How are players excluded? Every single player, who has HoT access, has the same opportunity to do the raids. You’re not locked out from the content once you’ve completed it for the week. It’s just that you won’t receive rewards after you successfully complete the raid for that week. This doesn’t exclude you from doing the raid. It’s like guild missions if I do them Sunday with one guild. I’m not excluded from helping another guild the next day.

It sounds to me you’re talking about rewards here. However your previous post where you stated “Seriously. You got hung up on rewards and entirely missed the dang point” suggest that you’re not referring to rewards. You keep saying I’m missing the point but it’s difficult when you keep bouncing back and forth.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Coulter.2315:

Jaxom.7310:

Coulter.2315:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set.

You don’t know what 2 of the words in this sentence mean. (unique and only)

You don’t know what 1 of the words in this sentence mean. (a)

the guy says there should be rewards for the content u can/want to play. should be a set of legendary gear for wvw. should be a set of legendary gear for pvp.

etc etc

It can’t be unique to raids if it is obtainable from other sources.

I do not feel the issue is with raids having unique gear that is unobtainable from other sources. The issue is other sources do not get unique and unobtainable gear of their own outside of PvP.

Open world has unique skins (lumi), Fractals unique stuff, Crafting unique stuff, WvW unique stuff (Mist Hero), Story unique stuff, Events unique stuff. I’m probably forgetting a lot but less than you managed to.

chemiclord.3978:

StrangerDanger.3496:

If I’m not mistaken people did ask for exactly this. Locking stuff behind difficult group content is what makes the effort to learn the raid and coordinate properly work it.

Not just did the “hardcore raider” asked for this, ArenaNet also knows by this point that the only thing that will encourage players to try this “challenging content” is through “phat lewt.” Challenge is a God awful motivator for gamers, and if you give them an “easier” route to the same reward, gamers will take that easier route 99 times out of 100.

Not only did they have to come up with unique rewards, they HAD to make those rewards exclusive, otherwise only 5% of the player base would even show interest in going particularly far.

What I don’t think they realize is that it isn’t going to matter at the end of the day. The MMO player base actually DOESN’T like challenge. They DON’T like forming raids, and they WILL ignore GW2’s attempts just as much as every other game’s attempts.

Change that to the “majority of the MMO player base” and I would agree. Not sure if there are enough players who want access to rewards to generate the kind of push back that Ascended did when it was introduced (and was at that time only get-able in FotM), but I suppose it’s possible.

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

The splitting of the rewards was so that you would feel like you had a reason to go do the raid everyday. You may not like how they decided to handle the rewards but the suggestion I made was to appease players like you.

There’s a difference between not getting what you’re saying and not agreeing with what you’re saying. I’m the latter.

Splitting the reward doesn’t even come into question.

This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough.

If they can farm it let them and fix the dang encounters, so that people want to run it more than once a week and not feel guilt tripped into bringing their guild in because their schedules don’t add up.

How freaking complex is that ?

Seriously. You got hung up on rewards and entirely missed the dang point.

OR to paraphrase CJ himself…..

Well I think at a broad level, the decisions we’ve made make raiding a lot more approachable in Guild Wars 2 than other games. From our combat to a lack of attunements, to the more fluid role-based system, and I think we’ll see a large percentage of people at least try them. What they’ll see when they get in there is that it works really well in our game. We don’t try to exclude anybody.

Except for this one specific decision which should be change.

Again, the weekly rewards was a design choice decided by Anet. You don’t have to like it. Splitting the rewards across the days of the weekly so you had a reason to do the content was a suggestion that I had to appease you. If you dont like it then “you’re gonna have a bad time”.

Splitting the rewards doesn’t appease me or was that not made evident ?

You’re playing the fallacy card to its finest and looking pretty bad while doing it.

What i’ve been saying is, make the content both hard and rewarding…..simple no ?

Exactly when did nerf rewards come into the equation ?

It only came in because you tossed it in to make the fallacy occur. You can have both hard and rewarding and not have it limited.

Now then any other logical fallacies you wish to portray outside of the baseless ad-hominem or ignoratio elenchi ?

It will be difficult/challenging. It will be rewarding. Your issue is that you want to do it on a daily basis and be rewarded despite Anet’s design plan to limit the rewards on a weekly basis. The splitting of rewards across the days was so that you would get your daily reward but maintain the same limitations that Anet has currently planned.

There’s no fallacy here. The only issue is you not reading my posts as I’ve stated this multiple times now. The fact of the matter is that rewards will be given on a weekly basis like they currently are for guild missions. You can accept that or not.

Or I can advocate a much better system that appeases both sides and doesn’t actually take away from either side.

Which is what i’ve been doing, and why you’ve been hellbent on missing the point.

Carry on, ignoring it. You’re batting 1000 so far.

Except you’re not doing that.

You think it’s a design flaw if it can be farmed. Anet wants everyone to be able to beat it so tailoring the difficulty to the top players so that they would not be able to farm it, which would be bad design according to you if they could, would be bad and not with their intentions. It makes it near impossible for them to complete it which is something you pointed out that you don’t mind when you said you did not agree with them not wanting to exclude anyone.

Edit: Refer I the following post of yours

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Just-glorious/first#post5448109

You state “This content is meant to be hard and rewarding. If people can farm it, it’s a design flaw of the raid not being hard enough”. You also quote Colin where at the end he stated “We don’t try to exclude anybody” which was bolded by you. Your response was that “Except for this one specific decision which should be changed.”. You were referring to what was bolded.

My god….

If it’s being farmed, is it hard enough ? Probably not.
If it’s being farmed, should it still be rewarding ? Yes.

Is it right to exclude players to a once a week schedule ? No
Does having it limited to a weekly reward increase the chance of exclusion? Yes

Im done explaining this to you, i really am. At this point you are seriously seriously missing the point.

Players should be properly rewarded for all actions and not excluded due to an artificial barrier.

There’s better ways to accomplish both and we have the ability to do so.

We already have a daily check system, and a system that rewards for event completion. Combine the two and you have a perfect way to reward players every time they complete and do said content without limiting them to an artificial schedule which limits player involvement. Something ANet said they don’t want to do.

How are players excluded? Every single player, who has HoT access, has the same opportunity to do the raids. You’re not locked out from the content once you’ve completed it for the week. It’s just that you won’t receive rewards after you successfully complete the raid for that week. This doesn’t exclude you from doing the raid. It’s like guild missions if I do them Sunday with one guild. I’m not excluded from helping another guild the next day.

It sounds to me you’re talking about rewards here. However your previous post where you stated “Seriously. You got hung up on rewards and entirely missed the dang point” suggest that you’re not referring to rewards. You keep saying I’m missing the point but it’s difficult when you keep bouncing back and forth.

You don’t get it because you keep focusing on the rewards aspect not the big picture.

Hence missing the point.

If you are only rewarded once per week, what incentives you as a player to go back again ?

That being the case, if you miss your guilds raid night how on gods green earth do you expect to go and do hard group content, considering it’s likely not going to be pugable nor will most players go out of their way to run something that does not reward them.

We’ve already seen this happen pre-megaserver update. If you didn’t do Teq/Jor/etc at reset with the rush crew you were pretty much doomed to not do said content.

We’re taking a huge step back by adopting the not rewarding players for doing it, which is caused by a once a week lockout on them. Instead of rewarding them for just completing it which is far better a solution that doesn’t dilute the player base.

See missing the point, which was explained already in the first post i made, but you kept harping it to be about rewards when its a two-fold problem to begin with ?

No, probably not. You’ll champion or pine to some phrase in here about how its all about rewards when it’s about both the timegate and reward being locked.

The game is designed around rewarding players for completing content, if its supposed to be hard content and some of the hardest this game has ever seen, it should be rewarding the entire time, not once a week. If it’s farmable that means the content probably isn’t tuned to where it should be or that players have learned an optimal strategy either one is ultimately irrelevant as that is something that can be addressed in a balance pass or subsequent release of a harder path.

Other products have done this, and to honestly say it’s Anets way or bust is horribly ignorant. There is a reason why we have forums and why anet wants peoples opinions during beta weekends and that is to create a product that is enjoyable and in a good state.

Healthy rewards and not isolating the community is part of that. The part they swung at and missed hard with that post. The part im pointing out needs to be fixed.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Change that to the “majority of the MMO player base” and I would agree. Not sure if there are enough players who want access to rewards to generate the kind of push back that Ascended did when it was introduced (and was at that time only get-able in FotM), but I suppose it’s possible.

As far as ArenaNet is concerned, the rewards are merely a means to an end. That end being encouraging players to play this content. Why? Because raids are hard work that is very resource and time intensive. It’s probably the most involving content an MMO developer does, in fact. They need to constantly develop new mechanics, new maps, art resources, special AI programming, the QA has to be heavily involved (you can get away with minor bugs in the open world, but a minor bug in a raid is going to receive a ton of scrutiny for some very loud people).

It’s the very reason “Looking For Raid” in World of Warcraft exists… because their raid participation numbers are DISMAL otherwise. It’s quickly become not worth the investment without an easy mode that more people are willing to participate in.

I’m dubious this will work for GW2 at the end of the day. There are two very distinct camps with desires that are mutually exclusive to each other.

One is the “wanna have fun” camp, who despise challenge and get violently angry that there’s content they don’t have the time or skills to complete.

Then you have the “hardcore” camp, who don’t necessarily care about the challenge (though there are some that do), but are ACTUALLY more interested in the shinies they can get that the “filthy casuals” won’t.

WoW can get away with it and somewhat please both camps by having “LFR” gear be significantly inferior than the “Normal” or “Mythic” varities.

ArenaNet doesn’t really have that carrot, and if they tried to implement it, it’d be the Ascended debacle over 9000, where everyone and their mother is enraged and about ready to set Bellevue aflame.

They’re going to have to make a choice: either make the content easy enough for the bulk of players to complete (and kitten off the “hardcore” fans), or accept that 5% of their players are going to like their resource-intensive raids (and kitten off their “casual” fans who feel they were promised “play how we want”… and possibly their shareholders who will wonder why ArenaNet is investing so much in something so few players are interested in).

Then there’s the third camp. The majority of the player base that wants and is willing to participate in challenging content because it’s fun, and wants to be rewarded with cool shinies if they complete it because unique trophies are more meaningful loot than a handful of gold and rares they could have acquired elsewhere

The problem with WoW’s raids wasn’t the player base. It was the gear gate just to get started I advise you to in stead look at the GW1 elite instances, which were in fact very popular specifically because of their accessibility to attempt while maintaining a challenging piece of content to complete

Are you all ready for your once a week chance for a random piece of legendary armour?

Once a week if you complete the instance, you two could have a one in a million chance of getting one of eighteen pieces of armour, which may or may not be one you’ve already picked up, or completely the wrong weight for your main!

But don’t worry even if you don’t get the armour, you too can take home a wonderful once a week prize of two yellows and a green!

TexZero.7910:

You don’t get it because you keep focusing on the rewards aspect not the big picture.

Hence missing the point.

Rewards, or rather the lack of after you’ve done it once that week, is the main issue when it comes down to it. You can argue about not having people to play with but that’s an effect and not the cause. And yes, you’re treating rewards as the cause as evident in what’s in your recent post and all of the others that came before it.

So either you’re incorrectly focusing on the wrong thing, secretly want more rewards so you can farm the kitten out of it in a matter of days, or something else.

TexZero.7910:

If you are only rewarded once per week, what incentives you as a player to go back again ?

That being the case, if you miss your guilds raid night how on gods green earth do you expect to go and do hard group content, considering it’s likely not going to be pugable nor will most players go out of their way to run something that does not reward them.

What incentives? To help their friends and fellow guildmates? If you’re in a guild, and cannot find 9 other people willing to help you, then I am so very very sorry. I really am. It’s just a shame that you’d have no one willing to help you.

Let’s say that it’s set to be done daily and everyone does it at reset but you’re late. You still would not do it in your hypothetical scenario where nobody helps each other.

Also, what evidence do you have that it will not be puggable? Unless it is truly dynamic and changes every time to a degree that it cannot be anticipated, eventually people will get it down to a level where it will be farmable and even Joe Smoe who just started the game a month ago can do it.

TexZero.7910:

We’ve already seen this happen pre-megaserver update. If you didn’t do Teq/Jor/etc at reset with the rush crew you were pretty much doomed to not do said content.

You didn’t see that with the world bosses or at least not on the populated servers prior to the mega servers. Teq is something that required more or less an entire map when it first got revamped. That much different than something which only requires 10 people to do.

TexZero.7910:

We’re taking a huge step back by adopting the not rewarding players for doing it, which is caused by a once a week lockout on them. Instead of rewarding them for just completing it which is far better a solution that doesn’t dilute the player base.

The only restriction placed on players after they’ve completed the raid is that they only get the weekly rewards once. They do not lose access as well. I don’t see why you keep using words like lockout and exclude when it’s not the case. Unless of course you’re referring to players who choose not to go again after they’ve gotten the weekly reward but then the keyword there is choose.

TexZero.7910:

See missing the point, which was explained already in the first post i made, but you kept harping it to be about rewards when its a two-fold problem to begin with ?

Nope. Based on your posts, it all comes down to rewards.

TexZero.7910:

No, probably not. You’ll champion or pine to some phrase in here about how its all about rewards when it’s about both the timegate and reward being locked.

This entire quoted statement is about rewards. You mention rewards being locked which is because of the timegate. Access is not timegated, only rewards. So, you see, it’s always been about the rewards.

TexZero.7910:

The game is designed around rewarding players for completing content, if its supposed to be hard content and some of the hardest this game has ever seen, it should be rewarding the entire time, not once a week. If it’s farmable that means the content probably isn’t tuned to where it should be or that players have learned an optimal strategy either one is ultimately irrelevant as that is something that can be addressed in a balance pass or subsequent release of a harder path.

I don’t see the correlation that something is designed to be difficult, but determined to be rewarded on a weekly basis by Anet, must be rewarded each and every time. You’re also making the assumption that the weekly rewards are the only rewards. For all we know, they could offer rewards similar to dungeons, world bosses, and whatever else after you’ve gotten the daily bonus chest.

The highly skilled players will be the first to make it farmable. All content that isn’t truly dynamic will eventually become farmable. Liadri is farmable and she was arguably a challenge for many players except for the ones that cheesed it with lifesteal and whatever else that bypassed her defenses. Eventually people will adopt the strategy that the highly skills found that worked and then everyone will be able to do it. We saw this with everything released in the game so far that presented a challenge at first.

TexZero.7910:

Other products have done this, and to honestly say it’s Anets way or bust is horribly ignorant. There is a reason why we have forums and why anet wants peoples opinions during beta weekends and that is to create a product that is enjoyable and in a good state.

Healthy rewards and not isolating the community is part of that. The part they swung at and missed hard with that post. The part im pointing out needs to be fixed.

Just because other games have done what you prefer doesn’t mean that Anet has to. There’s no cookie cutter way that a developer must follow when it comers to certain content. You finding the rewards as unhealthy and it somehow isolating the community is an opinion. So far the other content with similar restrictions haven’t done either of those.

Cactus Brawler.7415:

Are you all ready for your once a week chance for a random piece of legendary armour?

Once a week if you complete the instance, you two could have a one in a million chance of getting one of eighteen pieces of armour, which may or may not be one you’ve already picked up, or completely the wrong weight for your main!

But don’t worry even if you don’t get the armour, you too can take home a wonderful once a week prize of two yellows and a green!

We don’t yet know what the rewards system will be like. All we know is that there will be rewards that are tied to be rewarded only once per week. There could be rewards by playing each time but not as extravagant as the weekly rewards. We may also be able to earn the legendary armor simply by playing rather than relying solely on RNG.

We just won’t know for sure until they release that blog on the rewards. Considering that they’re dedicating an entire blog to it, I’m pretty sure there’s more to it than log in once per week to complete it and get your weekly reward.

PopeUrban.2578:

Ascended was introduced through fractals and later acquirable through other methods. I expect legendary armor and backpacks to follow the same route, only with different skins since the skins rather than the stats are a much bigger part of legendaries.

I doubt they want to cut non-raiders off from the very option od acquiring the functionality of legendaries. Though I’m absolutely certain they want to cut non-raiders off from getting the specific look of raid legendaires (and in my opinion this is the right move)

Unfortunately ascended it still a bit of a kitten. Yes, it was introduced via fractals, and said we would have other ways to obtain it. When it comes to armor and weapons, the only way to obtain them beyond rng drops is to craft them. Not really much in the line of options now is it?

I am hoping that the “first” set and “only available from raids” does not remain the precedent going forward. IE, they add a second set, but its only available from raid set 2. Until they directly tell us, in no uncertain terms, that legendary armor set will be obtainable through other game play means, my concern shall remain. I’m perfectly fine with the raid having its own unique skin for it legendary set. I’m even ok if other sets are insanely grindy to achieve. Options are not a bad thing.

PopeUrban.2578:

Then there’s the third camp. The majority of the player base that wants and is willing to participate in challenging content because it’s fun, and wants to be rewarded with cool shinies if they complete it because unique trophies are more meaningful loot than a handful of gold and rares they could have acquired elsewhere

The problem with WoW’s raids wasn’t the player base. It was the gear gate just to get started I advise you to in stead look at the GW1 elite instances, which were in fact very popular specifically because of their accessibility to attempt while maintaining a challenging piece of content to complete

Actually, your words prove you to be right in that second group. You don’t care about the challenge. You care about the rewards. If those same rewards were available in the open world, you’d MAYBE do the raid once just to say you did it, then never set foot inside again.

chemiclord.3978:

PopeUrban.2578:

Then there’s the third camp. The majority of the player base that wants and is willing to participate in challenging content because it’s fun, and wants to be rewarded with cool shinies if they complete it because unique trophies are more meaningful loot than a handful of gold and rares they could have acquired elsewhere

The problem with WoW’s raids wasn’t the player base. It was the gear gate just to get started I advise you to in stead look at the GW1 elite instances, which were in fact very popular specifically because of their accessibility to attempt while maintaining a challenging piece of content to complete

Actually, your words prove you to be right in that second group. You don’t care about the challenge. You care about the rewards. If those same rewards were available in the open world, you’d MAYBE do the raid once just to say you did it, then never set foot inside again.

No, I care that I got the reward because of the challenge

The challenge is specifically what makes me want the reward and specifically why I don’t want the current legendaries or care about them

I still have a refgee child’s drawing from LS1 because I like what it represented despite the fact I could have eaten it for karma. I still have my map of southsun from the megakarka fight because it reminds me of how awesome that experience was, and it’s not stuck on only one of my characters like the 20 slot bag. that thing has literally no use whatever. I can’t even vendor it. These items are important and meaningful loot because they signify either a point in time or an accomplishment.

The reward would be actively less enticing to me if I could just pick up the same exact thing for 10s off a vendor, or grind nearly harmless mobs for half a year.

The value of a trophy isn’t the physical materials that the trophy is made out of. The value of an olympic gold metal isn’t that it’s made out of gold. The value of these objects is in what they represent.

If you could pick up an olympic gold medal at the corner store for ten bucks it would completely lose its meaning and significance.

I care about the challenge, and I care about having a trophy that signifies it. I’m not interested in whether or not I can lord it over others, or whether it makes me the only guy in the room with legendary armor. I honestly hope they add additional acquisition paths for different legendary skins to the open world and fractals and everything else.

See, I wouldn’t give a crap if raids awarded nothing but a white weapon with a unique skin. The point is that it’s a unique trophy that signifies a unique piece of content

The whole game needs more of these. Raids, open world zones, events even. It’s not about the loot at all. If that doesn’t explain it I don’t know what will.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

PopeUrban.2578:

Ascended was introduced through fractals and later acquirable through other methods. I expect legendary armor and backpacks to follow the same route, only with different skins since the skins rather than the stats are a much bigger part of legendaries.

I doubt they want to cut non-raiders off from the very option od acquiring the functionality of legendaries. Though I’m absolutely certain they want to cut non-raiders off from getting the specific look of raid legendaires (and in my opinion this is the right move)

Unfortunately ascended it still a bit of a kitten. Yes, it was introduced via fractals, and said we would have other ways to obtain it. When it comes to armor and weapons, the only way to obtain them beyond rng drops is to craft them. Not really much in the line of options now is it?

I am hoping that the “first” set and “only available from raids” does not remain the precedent going forward. IE, they add a second set, but its only available from raid set 2. Until they directly tell us, in no uncertain terms, that legendary armor set will be obtainable through other game play means, my concern shall remain. I’m perfectly fine with the raid having its own unique skin for it legendary set. I’m even ok if other sets are insanely grindy to achieve. Options are not a bad thing.

That is actually plenty of options, since crafting is a method that can be achieved by playing any content you like, and is thus the most fair way to give easy access to mechanical power. however, you’ll notice that they’ve made a point to roll out other avenues from time to time that are exclusive to other pieces of content as well.

I guess they’re hoping its actually fun enough you might do it a second time per week to practice or help out you’re buddies who we’re on the main raid-team…

I raided actively in LotRO… Some of the raids were entertaining enough I’d log in with well geared but not completely awesome alts to help other groups and disseminate strategy first hand… after having gotten it done on my main for that week.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

PopeUrban.2578:

That is actually plenty of options, since crafting is a method that can be achieved by playing any content you like, and is thus the most fair way to give easy access to mechanical power. however, you’ll notice that they’ve made a point to roll out other avenues from time to time that are exclusive to other pieces of content as well.

Yes, you can get the materials in a variety of ways, but crafting is ONE option. It is not multiple options. It is one method and only one method. If you don’t level crafting (and some people just don’t like crafting), it doesn’t matter at all if you have those materials, regardless of how you got them, because you can’t do anything with them (other than sell them).

You’re missing my points entirely.

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

Oh that’s rich. You don’t think this will be farmed once people learn the mechanics? Seriously? Ha. Once mechanics and comps are learned this will be just more speed clear fodder. People will do their once a week, as fast as they can to get to the shiny at the end. After that first few times, they don’t care about the content anymore. All they care about is the loot.

Still, all that aside, no I am not suggesting the same rewards for easier content. Read through all of my posts. Never once did I say make it easier. I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Let there be several sets. Let them have different means of being acquired. Let each one have its own unique skin. As a game that is cosmetically based, that should be what draws people to a certain aspect of the game to play it. Because that’s the only way to get the skin. Not because it’s the only place to get the functionality offered.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

…
I wanted more acquisition options ….

Let there be several sets.

Let them have different means of being acquired.

Let each one have its own unique skin.

As a game that is cosmetically based, that should be what draws people to a certain aspect of the game to play it. Because that’s the only way to get the skin. Not because it’s the only place to get the functionality offered.*

emphasis this is the real point

Donari.5237:

Coulter.2315:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set.

You don’t know what 2 of the words in this sentence mean. (unique and only)

I think you misunderstood Lanfear’s point. She’s cool with there being raid-specific loot. But not with an entire game mechanic being gated behind raid loot. So she wants there to be other game sources (possibly just as difficult but not needing nine friends for a long commitment) for legendary armor, but with different skins so people can tell the raiders from the others.

Also, They specificly stated it needs to be crafted. So i’m VERY sure EVERY gameplay type but SPVP will be very much involved again, just like the legendary weapons we have now.

Jaxom.7310:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

…
I wanted more acquisition options ….

Let there be several sets.

Let them have different means of being acquired.

Let each one have its own unique skin.

As a game that is cosmetically based, that should be what draws people to a certain aspect of the game to play it. Because that’s the only way to get the skin. Not because it’s the only place to get the functionality offered.*

emphasis this is the real point

lol Am I being too wordy again?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Jaxom.7310:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

…
I wanted more acquisition options ….

Let there be several sets.

Let them have different means of being acquired.

Let each one have its own unique skin.

As a game that is cosmetically based, that should be what draws people to a certain aspect of the game to play it. Because that’s the only way to get the skin. Not because it’s the only place to get the functionality offered.*

emphasis this is the real point

lol Am I being too wordy again?

ha no. but u know how sometimes if u arent’ direct people will miss the pt an focus on the part they want for arguing sake

Jaxom.7310:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Jaxom.7310:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

…
I wanted more acquisition options ….

Let there be several sets.

Let them have different means of being acquired.

Let each one have its own unique skin.

As a game that is cosmetically based, that should be what draws people to a certain aspect of the game to play it. Because that’s the only way to get the skin. Not because it’s the only place to get the functionality offered.*

emphasis this is the real point

lol Am I being too wordy again?

ha no. but u know how sometimes if u arent’ direct people will miss the pt an focus on the part they want for arguing sake

True, true. You’d think I’d remember that, given the sheet number of arguments I’ve been in. ha ha

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

You dont see everybody farming 45+ fractals (successfully) and how long have they been out? yes there are people who can do them no problem, but theres plenty who cant and die in even lower level fractals repeatedly. Why should they get the same rewards?

Claiming that Raids are just going to be mindlessly easy is just stupid. That claim comes from someone whos grasping at straws because they dont want to lose an argument. End of story.

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

that shouldnt’ bother u, it should floor u then.

u see mi in my wvw legendary armor looking like X

then u stand next to me in ur legendary armor lookin like Y

kittenay “ha scrub u only got tha ez mode gear. look at dis real legendary gear herr”

an every1 around us knos u did the “hard content”. whats the prob?

Jaxom.7310:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

that shouldnt’ bother u, it should floor u then.

u see mi in my wvw legendary armor looking like X

then u stand next to me in ur legendary armor lookin like Y

kittenay “ha scrub u only got tha ez mode gear. look at dis real legendary gear herr”

an every1 around us knos u did the “hard content”. whats the prob?

You an be carried in wvw as an uplevel and spam 1 all day. By your logic why not make legendary armor for reach lvl 10 in armorsmithing!

“Hah thats the noob lvl 10 armorsmithing legendary armor. It doesnt mean aything”

Why not make legendary armor as a 1 year anniversary gift. “Ha he didnt do anything for that armor!”

No, thats not how it works.

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

You dont see everybody farming 45+ fractals (successfully) and how long have they been out? yes there are people who can do them no problem, but theres plenty who cant and die in even lower level fractals repeatedly. Why should they get the same rewards?

Claiming that Raids are just going to be mindlessly easy is just stupid. That claim comes from someone whos grasping at straws because they dont want to lose an argument. End of story.

This completely boils down to “you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ‘x’” and I’m sorry, but that’s YOUR issue.

We don’t know what how hard or not raids will be. Given the comments that have been made, Anet contradicts themselves regarding their difficulty, so I wouldn’t get hopes too high. People thought dungeons were kittence too. People thought fractals were difficult once upon a time. Look at them now. Speed clear fodder. Yes, even lvl 45+.

You keep going on and on about difficulty. Things could be added to PvE, WvW, et all to make working towards a legendary gear set via those means hard, tedious, and equally grindy. Novel concept, I know. I’ll repeat, I’m not advocating making the other options easier.

TO EACH THEIR OWN. Let other’s play how they desire to play. Locking what Anet put forth as the ‘ultimate end game’ carrot behind raids (which are only ONE TYPE of endgame not THE endgame) is wrong.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

You dont see everybody farming 45+ fractals (successfully) and how long have they been out? yes there are people who can do them no problem, but theres plenty who cant and die in even lower level fractals repeatedly. Why should they get the same rewards?

Claiming that Raids are just going to be mindlessly easy is just stupid. That claim comes from someone whos grasping at straws because they dont want to lose an argument. End of story.

This completely boils down to “you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ‘x’” and I’m sorry, but that’s YOUR issue.

We don’t know what how hard or not raids will be. Given the comments that have been made, Anet contradicts themselves regarding their difficulty, so I wouldn’t get hopes too high. People thought dungeons were kittence too. People thought fractals were difficult once upon a time. Look at them now. Speed clear fodder. Yes, even lvl 45+.

You keep going on and on about difficulty. Things could be added to PvE, WvW, et all to make working towards a legendary gear set via those means hard, tedious, and equally grindy. Novel concept, I know. I’ll repeat, I’m not advocating making the other options easier.

TO EACH THEIR OWN. Let other’s play how they desire to play. Locking what Anet put forth as the ‘ultimate end game’ carrot behind raids (which are only ONE TYPE of endgame not THE endgame) is wrong.

""you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ’x’" "

Thats actually exactly the case

You’ve said it as a dysphemism , but yes. You dont deserve the reward since you didnt do the hardest content available.

Deal with it.

Cactus Brawler.7415:

Are you all ready for your once a week chance for a random piece of legendary armour?

Once a week if you complete the instance, you two could have a one in a million chance of getting one of eighteen pieces of armour, which may or may not be one you’ve already picked up, or completely the wrong weight for your main!

But don’t worry even if you don’t get the armour, you too can take home a wonderful once a week prize of two yellows and a green!

Um, actually no, working under the assumption until we get more details that we will be working on the mats for the Precursor armor and then will be crafting the Legendary armor from there. Precursor armor might be a ultra rare drop like the weapons are. But no, wasn’t picture that this is going to just drop ready to use armor at all. I am expecting this to be the same if not more of a process that we do today. This stuff shouldn’t just be like finding a yellow.

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

You dont see everybody farming 45+ fractals (successfully) and how long have they been out? yes there are people who can do them no problem, but theres plenty who cant and die in even lower level fractals repeatedly. Why should they get the same rewards?

Claiming that Raids are just going to be mindlessly easy is just stupid. That claim comes from someone whos grasping at straws because they dont want to lose an argument. End of story.

This completely boils down to “you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ‘x’” and I’m sorry, but that’s YOUR issue.

We don’t know what how hard or not raids will be. Given the comments that have been made, Anet contradicts themselves regarding their difficulty, so I wouldn’t get hopes too high. People thought dungeons were kittence too. People thought fractals were difficult once upon a time. Look at them now. Speed clear fodder. Yes, even lvl 45+.

You keep going on and on about difficulty. Things could be added to PvE, WvW, et all to make working towards a legendary gear set via those means hard, tedious, and equally grindy. Novel concept, I know. I’ll repeat, I’m not advocating making the other options easier.

TO EACH THEIR OWN. Let other’s play how they desire to play. Locking what Anet put forth as the ‘ultimate end game’ carrot behind raids (which are only ONE TYPE of endgame not THE endgame) is wrong.

""you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ’x’" "

Thats actually exactly the case

You’ve said it as a dysphemism , but yes. You dont deserve the reward since you didnt do the hardest content available.

Deal with it.

Ah yes, there’s that elitist, exclusionist, special snowflake attitude we all love.

Why does someone else getting a legendary set via another means bother you so much? Just for the sake of the conversation, let’s pretend that method a (raids) and method b (any other method) are equally difficult. Why is that an issue? Why are your panties in a bunch that someone else had a different option, because they enjoy playing method b over method a?

Now, you’re still going to throw that “hardest content” excuse at me, and that falls flat if method b is equally difficult, which is what we’re assuming for the sake of the conversation. Now you’re going to throw the ‘get carried’ argument at me, which for other methods can be addressed. Conversely, the potential to be carried in raids exists as well.

So, what’s the problem? You like raids, therefore everyone must like raids and play like you do? Nope sorry. That’s not how this game was built.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

You dont see everybody farming 45+ fractals (successfully) and how long have they been out? yes there are people who can do them no problem, but theres plenty who cant and die in even lower level fractals repeatedly. Why should they get the same rewards?

Claiming that Raids are just going to be mindlessly easy is just stupid. That claim comes from someone whos grasping at straws because they dont want to lose an argument. End of story.

This completely boils down to “you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ‘x’” and I’m sorry, but that’s YOUR issue.

We don’t know what how hard or not raids will be. Given the comments that have been made, Anet contradicts themselves regarding their difficulty, so I wouldn’t get hopes too high. People thought dungeons were kittence too. People thought fractals were difficult once upon a time. Look at them now. Speed clear fodder. Yes, even lvl 45+.

You keep going on and on about difficulty. Things could be added to PvE, WvW, et all to make working towards a legendary gear set via those means hard, tedious, and equally grindy. Novel concept, I know. I’ll repeat, I’m not advocating making the other options easier.

TO EACH THEIR OWN. Let other’s play how they desire to play. Locking what Anet put forth as the ‘ultimate end game’ carrot behind raids (which are only ONE TYPE of endgame not THE endgame) is wrong.

""you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ’x’" "

Thats actually exactly the case

You’ve said it as a dysphemism , but yes. You dont deserve the reward since you didnt do the hardest content available.

Deal with it.

Ah yes, there’s that elitist, exclusionist, special snowflake attitude we all love.

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.