Guild Wars 2

mtpelion.4562:

The Celestial chest piece has 270 stat points before you even get to the Crit Damage or Magic Find putting it out in front of every other gear set in the game, offset by a lack of focus.

Which is a HUGE offset. Enough so that it’s basically inferior to any other set.

mtpelion.4562:

I would not be opposed to adding Gold or Karma +%, but my main point is that Celestial does not need compensation for the removal of Magic Find because while the other sets had Magic Find at the expense of their stat allocation, Celestial had Magic Find in addition to its stat allocation.

You are making an assumption about stat allocation that is simply not true. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the method for stat allocation is affected by concentration in any stat rather than simply the total stats. So 200 in a stat has a higher budget than 100 in 2 stats. That makes it likely that MF was part of the budget in celestial gear especially since it obviously was part of the budget for explorers.

why give people the ability to craft an new stats item like celestial only to nerf them a month later? surely the development team plan more than a month in advance?

Translation that ANET gave Martin the dubious job to deliver this wonderful news to the masses:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Hey all, no worries, we got you covered.

TRANSLATION: Hey, no worries, We found some laughs in screwing you and your MF.

Weapons, armor and trinkets with magic find will become account bound, lose their current stats and will gain the ability to be double-clicked to select one of several stat options depending on the item.

TRANSLATION: All your MF gear will become worthless items that you can change into something you already have or don’t need.

For example, if you have an Explorer’s Pearl Staff, you can now double-click it to change it to any other crafting stat.

TRANSLATION: Your Explorer’s Pearl Staff, you can now double-click it to change it into another useless item you already have.

We will have a blog post about it with more extensive information as well, keep an eye on the website.

TRANSLATION: “We’ll keep laughing at you and your accumulated MF that you worked hard for and spend a whole lot of gold and laurels on, like a few months of laurels (LOL).”

Quite disappointing, so everything we spent on MF becomes crap and we restart with the few percentage points of MF that we have accumulated from the achievement box’s we received.

Hey Martin, did you guys have to draw straws to see who would deliver this news to the masses and have their name on the post?

Demon of the Light.7961:

I tried to search in this post and seems like no one still asked this, so I’ll give it a shot (maybe someone can enlight me):

I have a sylvari which MF armor is the cultural set, as soon as the changes will go live what will happen exactly?
Will the set still become account bound so that I may transfer it to another character (be it another sylvari for it to wear or another race to transmute)? Or will it remain soulbound due to the cultural armor nature (with the option to change the stats)?

This is somewhat of importance because I may decide if I’ll just keep the armor until I create another character able to wear it or to just transmute it.

Thanks for the attention.

coulda stopped a bug there bud

Draco Aine.5714:

Translation

All MMO features are subject to change for balancing or design purposes. Don’t like it, don’t play MMOs. Or many other games for that matter.

It’s not like they do it every day. This is a change that rarely happens.

AntiGw.9367:

Draco Aine.5714:

Translation

All MMO features are subject to change for balancing or design purposes. Don’t like it, don’t play MMOs. Or many other games for that matter.

It’s not like they do it every day. This is a change that rarely happens.

I understand that things change, change is important. Just feel cheated with the way this change is being brought about. I believe that I speak for a lot of people that have invested heavily into MF. I think more thought should of been put into place with this change by ANET.

And for the purpose of balancing, most MMO’s that are hack & slash types have magic find types of setups. Never saw a game (not saying that there is none) that removed MF the way ANET is doing it. I can be wrong, but i have seen MF work real well in many other games.

And what is going to happen to Polla?

AntiGw.9367:

Draco Aine.5714:

Translation

All MMO features are subject to change for balancing or design purposes. Don’t like it, don’t play MMOs. Or many other games for that matter.

It’s not like they do it every day. This is a change that rarely happens.

errrr except when the introduce Celestial crafting that has MF as a stat knowing full well they are going to nerf MF a month later….LOL

Trixie.7614:

And what is going to happen to Polla?

Poor Polla I guess that’s the reason they were giving her away.

Magic find is a horrible stat, any way they get rid of it is for the best. This is the best option they have I think. They are not sitting around thinking of ways to rip off the players.

Celestial gear is fine without magic find. It is not like the reduction of it will cause you to do less damage or die more often in battle. I guess I don’t see the issue. I made Celestial gear on my guardian but only because the stats worked out to be slightly better then the ones I was wearing for my build. The magic find wasn’t even enough for me to care about honestly. 18% extra chance on something that already rarely drops is still extremely rare.

Draco Aine.5714:

And for the purpose of balancing, most MMO’s that are hack & slash types have magic find types of setups.

Some examples?

GW2 is the first time that I have ever seen magic find make the jump out of multiplayer games and into an MMORPG.

Reymis.2158:

Magic find is a horrible stat, any way they get rid of it is for the best. This is the best option they have I think. They are not sitting around thinking of ways to rip off the players.

Celestial gear is fine without magic find. It is not like the reduction of it will cause you to do less damage or die more often in battle. I guess I don’t see the issue. I made Celestial gear on my guardian but only because the stats worked out to be slightly better then the ones I was wearing for my build. The magic find wasn’t even enough for me to care about honestly. 18% extra chance on something that already rarely drops is still extremely rare.

The thing is though some people and a fair few crafted the Celestial gear as a replacement for MF gear as it gave them the added stats that the standard MF gear did not.

I am not one of them, I was thinking about it but thankfully I never got around to it.

the issue is not the removal of magic find, period.

the issue is that they introduce a really hard to get, work/time intensive item set that lures people into trashing their old MF gear for it, only to nerf it hard later.

nerfing it, AFTER they told us we would be compensated.

how am I compensated when I’m stuck with a mediocre for everything, good for nothing item set, that took me weeks to craft?

Demon of the Light.7961:

I tried to search in this post and seems like no one still asked this, so I’ll give it a shot (maybe someone can enlight me):

I have a sylvari which MF armor is the cultural set, as soon as the changes will go live what will happen exactly?
Will the set still become account bound so that I may transfer it to another character (be it another sylvari for it to wear or another race to transmute)? Or will it remain soulbound due to the cultural armor nature (with the option to change the stats)?

This is somewhat of importance because I may decide if I’ll just keep the armor until I create another character able to wear it or to just transmute it.

Thanks for the attention.

Sylvari armour will never be wearable by any other race but Sylvari, account bound or not. Transmuted or not.

You can already make cultural armour account bound now. Just transmute it on a yellow or white armour. This actually works for every single armour and weapon piece. No matter if they are soulbound on acquire or on use. That’s how my necro got Vigil pants while he didn’t even start his personal story yet.

About the change, you will be able to change it to any other crafteable stat once the update hits. And remember, there will be a new stat to replace the Pillaging/Explorer!

What happens to unique skin exo drops that have MF stat?
What will happen to unique exo accessories that are craftable with MF stat?
will they be account bound after converting, just like exo back item dungeon drop garbage?

The difference between Celestial and the other MF stuff is obviously that ANet considers Celestial to be combat ready and the other MF stat sets to be deficient.

Remember that Celestial exists in sPvP too so they do consider the stat spread on that set to work for a pure combat perspective.

Well – they could just replace the %MF find with either of the non-combat stats left, i.e. gold or karma. No combat impact and still a valid bonus.

Reymis.2158:

Celestial gear is fine without magic find. It is not like the reduction of it will cause you to do less damage or die more often in battle. I guess I don’t see the issue. I made Celestial gear on my guardian but only because the stats worked out to be slightly better then the ones I was wearing for my build.

By that logic:
Because MF has no impact whatsoever, all explorer gear can have their MF stat removed.. Leaving only 2 stats… And there’re no problems with that, it’s not like they would do less damage or die more often than before?

Really?.. Then why offer any compensation to anyone?..

I don’t think anyone thinks celestial is one of the more competent combat gear options, even for jack-of-all trades builds.. It just makes them playable.. The advantage of celestial (without mixing with other things) was Magic Find..

And on top of that, celestial gear is a lot harder to get than buying stuff off the TP..
No one can claim that this is fair… It is obvious… But it can be argued that “There’s no way to make it fair now, it has to be balanced later”… I do not share that opinion for myself…

And yes, i do like MF getting removed.. It was a horrible system… And no, i’m not using full celestial, i never would, even with all that MF.. Too much primary damage stat loss..

Just to clarify some comments regarding Celestials.

I find the discussion to have similiarities with me and my older brother who is 5 years older. When i was about 3 years old i got my first wallet and my parents put some coins in it on a regular basis and they gave my older brother the same amount.

The thing was that i cherished the looks and he was looking for maximum wealth.

This ended up with that i always had the most coins (celestial stat points) and he ended up with the higher amount of money (combat efficiency).

This was fine and dandy as long as i couldnt do simple math and understand the value of money. This changed drastically when i go older and wiser.

My point is that celestials trinkets, hands, shoulders, head and feet have lower stat budgets since all points isnt worth equally. for instance precision and critical damage is 100% relying on power.

Any build that has the pieces above can be bettered in passive mitigation, reactive mitigation and dps (ofc with the same traitlines traited) by mixing other pieces of gear.

The chest and legs seems to be on a higher budget and are close to ascended trinkets which is kind of interesting, i havent checked the math behind the weapons.

If you dont believe me go to gw2buildcraft and create a build with celestial trinkets and any armor of you liking. Check out effective power, effective health, healing and condition damage.

Now remove the gear and build a new one without celestials. I suggest you start with filling up healing. Swap things around you will find that celestials isn’t one on par with other gear and in addition to that it lacks the ability to stack one or two stats.

@The duel warrior that wrote previously in the thread, i probably run the exact same build (0/10/0/30/30) on my warrior and its not celestials that over powered, its the build and the passive healing from the signet and adrenaline. I have a mix of gear and have better “effective” stats compared if i had a full celestial and this is with 3 exotic trinkets.

Overall the gear is subpar.

My point is that with or without the removal of MF the gear should be buffed and since boon duration is one of the stats that can be found in other gear types it should be in celestials and ofc in rune of divinity and maybe also condition duration. 1% per piece would allow a player to trait/gear so the they at least can be on par with the other gear.

Now over to Anet and the removal of MF.

I had 3 celestial trinkets and 3 armor pieces before they announced the change. It was said by Anet that MF would be compensated for so since Celestials infact has MF as main attribute (check the discussion above regarding effective stats) i assumed that the general statement regarding compensation would also include celestials. Subsequently i continued to craft the *newly introduced gear since i got the information that i would be compensated. I ended up with full armor, staff, focus and scepter and was about to craft my mace when they announced that celestial shouldn’t be compensated. Any compensation would justify me to craft these but none came even though promised.

OK, im fine with thakittens not like i have spent ton of time or gold in the game to craft these but what i have done is that i have spent a ton of time gated craftingmats. And if these are used in the coming ascended recepies i will be crossed, to say the least.

Well here we are and the question is how can we defuse this, potentially, bad situation.
Here are my suggestions:
- Make it possible to salvage the crystals and refund laurels, ecto and gold
- Add 1% boon duration and 1% condiduration, to compensate for low effective stats and lack of specialization, making boon duration the primary stat.
- Overall stat increase on the existing gear so it get higher effective stats but still lacks the abilility to specialize.

What not to do:
Add gold or karma, this would be a kick in the nuts for the guys in wvw that play with this gear.

The bold solution.
Buff all stats on the gear and make it ascended. This would justify the time gating but it would also reduce the gap to “the real” ascended. Since celestials have a lower effective stat distribution and if that relation is kept this could be the middle ground between exotics and level 500 crafted ascended.

Falcon.6521:

Well – they could just replace the %MF find with either of the non-combat stats left, i.e. gold or karma. No combat impact and still a valid bonus.

Yes right, let’s identify an issue (non combat stat on gear and people using it instead of something else to leech parties) and do something completely meaningless to solve the issue (replace it with another non combat stat)

Askleria.1430:

the issue is not the removal of magic find, period.

the issue is that they introduce a really hard to get, work/time intensive item set that lures people into trashing their old MF gear for it, only to nerf it hard later.

nerfing it, AFTER they told us we would be compensated.

how am I compensated when I’m stuck with a mediocre for everything, good for nothing item set, that took me weeks to craft?

Exactly. They need to give Celestial gear SOMETHING, or give us a full refund. Without the MF to make up for the lack of focus, the set is useless.

stof.9341:

Falcon.6521:

Well – they could just replace the %MF find with either of the non-combat stats left, i.e. gold or karma. No combat impact and still a valid bonus.

Yes right, let’s identify an issue (non combat stat on gear and people using it instead of something else to leech parties) and do something completely meaningless to solve the issue (replace it with another non combat stat)

Yeah. If they replace the stat, which I personally think they should, it should be with a combat-useful stat. Or a small boost to the stats already given.

They are removing MF as it’s not conducive to group play. If that is their design decision, what makes you think they’d want to add another non-group play conducive stat in it’s place?

Brutaly.6257:

- Add 1% boon duration and 1% condiduration, to compensate for low effective stats and lack of specialization, making boon duration the primary stat.

I think THIS is the best stat compensation for celestial gear.
I was typing the same suggestion.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Sylvari armour will never be wearable by any other race but Sylvari, account bound or not. Transmuted or not.

You can already make cultural armour account bound now. Just transmute it on a yellow or white armour. This actually works for every single armour and weapon piece. No matter if they are soulbound on acquire or on use. That’s how my necro got Vigil pants while he didn’t even start his personal story yet.

About the change, you will be able to change it to any other crafteable stat once the update hits. And remember, there will be a new stat to replace the Pillaging/Explorer!

Thanks for the response, even though you missed a bit the topic (I already knew that cultural armor can be worn only by the race it is designed to be worn and that, once the update goes live, that I’ll be able to change the stats)…
Nevertheless you helped me:
If cultural armor can already be account bound maybe mine will become account bound too, although I can’t be completely certain.

Demon of the Light.7961:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Sylvari armour will never be wearable by any other race but Sylvari, account bound or not. Transmuted or not.

You can already make cultural armour account bound now. Just transmute it on a yellow or white armour. This actually works for every single armour and weapon piece. No matter if they are soulbound on acquire or on use. That’s how my necro got Vigil pants while he didn’t even start his personal story yet.

About the change, you will be able to change it to any other crafteable stat once the update hits. And remember, there will be a new stat to replace the Pillaging/Explorer!

Thanks for the response, even though you missed a bit the topic (I already knew that cultural armor can be worn only by the race it is designed to be worn and that, once the update goes live, that I’ll be able to change the stats)…
Nevertheless you helped me:
If cultural armor can already be account bound maybe mine will become account bound too, although I can’t be completely certain.

Just making sure you didn’t have the wrong impression

And if it’s a MF set, it will become account bound, for sure.

About the celestial, if they would replace the MF with something, it should be with a boost to the profession specific attribute. Boon increase and condition increase don’t mean anything if you don’t have boons and barely do conditions. An increase for the profession specific attribute will help everybody, no matter what your build is (just like MF helped everybody, no matter the build)

So where’s that blog post….

stof.9341:

The difference between Celestial and the other MF stuff is obviously that ANet considers Celestial to be combat ready and the other MF stat sets to be deficient.

Remember that Celestial exists in sPvP too so they do consider the stat spread on that set to work for a pure combat perspective.

That completely doesn’t matter (even if celestial really was a stat set equal to others, which is debatable). The thing that matters is – were there any people that obtained celestial stat gear pieces because of MF on them, or not? If there were, then they should be refunded the same as all other MF gear users.

azurrei.5691:

Serenity.6149:

JESPER.5610:

Guys got a question about salvaging blues/greens for getting mf boost consumables.
I guess using better kit will result in better chance to get these boosts.
Few ppl mentioned that salvage-o-matic will be worth buying now, what do you think?

Uh, considering most people already use the basic salvage kit for salvaging, I don’t see why the salvage-o-matic would be worth buying now? It’s not exactly a “better” kit, unless you’ve been using the crude kit this entire time. You’re not going to end up saving money (compared to just using the basic kit) for a VERY long time. If the exchange rate is 100 gems : 4g, you’d need to salvage 615,385 items before you save even one copper. To put that in perspective, you’d need to salvage ~1686 items a day to save money a year later, and I’m sure most people don’t come close to that in a day.

Salvage o Matic is not about the savings, it’s about the convenience of only taking up one bag slot and never having to buy basic salvage kits (oh, and it stays Account Bound even after use.)

Thank you for that “clarification”, but re-read his/her question. Something as subjective as “is it worth it in terms of saving space” probably would be up for him/her to decide, rather than asking the forum, yes? Not everyone uses the same number of bag slots (I use only one, two at most if one is running out), so it would be a pointless question to ask since nobody here knows his/her bag usage style.

I took it for the MF, because it made the best MF general purpose set, and Anet have taken to adding Living Story that is centred around massive zerging and grinding. I knew that MF was going, but I expected the removal of MF would be compensated for, as the Celestial set without the MF is pretty sub-par. Note that this is on an elementalist, the profession that is perhaps closest to being able to make Celestial viable.

Now while that is the thinking of some people who got this set, what about those people who did NOT know that MF was being removed from it? There will be many of them, and do you think they will be happy suddenly having their gear ruined?

Yaki.9563:

You are making an assumption about stat allocation that is simply not true. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the method for stat allocation is affected by concentration in any stat rather than simply the total stats. So 200 in a stat has a higher budget than 100 in 2 stats. That makes it likely that MF was part of the budget in celestial gear especially since it obviously was part of the budget for explorers.

The fact that the other MF sets are getting new stats and Celestial is losing a stat indicates that my assumption simply is true and that your assumption is wrong.

I’ve got developer action supporting my argument, you don’t.

mtpelion.4562:

Yaki.9563:

You are making an assumption about stat allocation that is simply not true. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the method for stat allocation is affected by concentration in any stat rather than simply the total stats. So 200 in a stat has a higher budget than 100 in 2 stats. That makes it likely that MF was part of the budget in celestial gear especially since it obviously was part of the budget for explorers.

The fact that the other MF sets are getting new stats and Celestial is losing a stat indicates that my assumption simply is true and that your assumption is wrong.

I’ve got developer action supporting my argument, you don’t.

Since when have Anet ever got something right the first time around?

mtpelion.4562:

Yaki.9563:

You are making an assumption about stat allocation that is simply not true. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the method for stat allocation is affected by concentration in any stat rather than simply the total stats. So 200 in a stat has a higher budget than 100 in 2 stats. That makes it likely that MF was part of the budget in celestial gear especially since it obviously was part of the budget for explorers.

The fact that the other MF sets are getting new stats and Celestial is losing a stat indicates that my assumption simply is true and that your assumption is wrong.

I’ve got developer action supporting my argument, you don’t.

Except that the situations are not comparable. They are removing the other sets completely. Maybe they don’t want to remove celestial but don’t want to fiddle with the stats either (too much extra work?), so went with the weak solution of not doing anything even though that leaves it subpar. There is a long history of developers not doing the “fair” or “correct” thing because it takes too much time or resources.

2 days later and this mythical blog post is still missing…

mtpelion.4562:

The fact that the other MF sets are getting new stats and Celestial is losing a stat indicates that my assumption simply is true and that your assumption is wrong.

I’ve got developer action supporting my argument, you don’t.

The same developer action that had put burning on necromancer to nerf it with the subsequent patches.
They implemented celestials far before they intended to remove magic find.
Either it was unbalanced before, or it is subpar now.
If it was unbalanced, why did they do the same thing a month ago when they introduced armors and weapons? And why did they talk about a compensation if they knew they would have just nerfed those equips? Did they plan to put craftable items well knowing that they would have nerfed them a month later?
This is the “developer action” you’re talking about.

Askleria.1430:

the issue is not the removal of magic find, period.

the issue is that they introduce a really hard to get, work/time intensive item set that lures people into trashing their old MF gear for it, only to nerf it hard later.

nerfing it, AFTER they told us we would be compensated.

how am I compensated when I’m stuck with a mediocre for everything, good for nothing item set, that took me weeks to craft?

This exactly.

I’m glad they are removing magic find from gear. But either the celestial gear was OP before and is getting a rebalanced, Or it is getting a nerf because they didn’t know what to do with it. The celestial stat combo was introduced ten months before the Magic find nerf announcement (possibly from the beginning of the game since it is unclear when the triforge was added since we didn’t know how to make it). There is no way they were planning back then to nerf it. The idea that the magic find was not included in the stat value of the items is just plain silly. Of course they weighed the value of magic find on all stat gear (magic find was/is a stat) and based on the loss of focus decided that those stats in their entirety were equivalent to the other sets. this is a nerf to celestial plain and simple.

Ill just hold on to my MF set until ascended armor comes out then I’ll select those stats! Works for me. They said nothing on same quality of gear haha! Maybe they did but I didn’t see it.

mtpelion.4562:

The fact that the other MF sets are getting new stats and Celestial is losing a stat indicates that my assumption simply is true and that your assumption is wrong.

I’ve got developer action supporting my argument, you don’t.

The fact that Anet decided to introduce MF stat armors to the game obviously means that it is a good equipment and is here to stay… oh wait.
(don’t use the “appeal to authority” fallacy with Anet as an authority, as they are known to make mistakes – and huge ones quite often).

Excursion.9752:

Ill just hold on to my MF set until ascended armor comes out then I’ll select those stats! Works for me. They said nothing on same quality of gear haha! Maybe they did but I didn’t see it.

…wait, you are right. I just hope you won’t get white quality stat sets instead ;p

Astralporing.1957:

mtpelion.4562:

The fact that the other MF sets are getting new stats and Celestial is losing a stat indicates that my assumption simply is true and that your assumption is wrong.

I’ve got developer action supporting my argument, you don’t.

The fact that Anet decided to introduce MF stat armors to the game obviously means that it is a good equipment and is here to stay… oh wait.
(don’t use the “appeal to authority” fallacy with Anet as an authority, as they are known to make mistakes – and huge ones quite often).

Excursion.9752:

Ill just hold on to my MF set until ascended armor comes out then I’ll select those stats! Works for me. They said nothing on same quality of gear haha! Maybe they did but I didn’t see it.

…wait, you are right. I just hope you won’t get white quality stat sets instead ;p

You can’t have an appeal to authority fallacy here because the game exists as a result of developer action, thus anything they do defines reality. By removing stats from Celestial gear, ArenaNet (as the god of Guild Wars) has defined Celestial gear as being in line. You simply disagree with that reality.

so.. magic find items become account bound.
those items on the TP get returned to you.
You can double click to modify them to a different stat combo of your choice.

Question: After you change the stat combo, do they remain account bound?

Example: see Infinite Light on the trading post. Very expensive, non-legendary weapon requiring expensive mats. This item has magic find by default. Those few that are listed on the TP will disappear. From what I understand, those people will be stuck with them.

What will be the new default stats?

mtpelion.4562:

You can’t have an appeal to authority fallacy here because the game exists as a result of developer action, thus anything they do defines reality. By removing stats from Celestial gear, ArenaNet (as the god of Guild Wars) has defined Celestial gear as being in line. You simply disagree with that reality.

By that reasoning by having the stat on Celestial originally they defined it as being in line, what has changed to make Celestial out of line, or more powerful and deserving of a nerf?

There are only two possibilities either Celestial was overpowered and in need of a nerf to bring it in balance, or Celestial was in line and is now getting nerfed because of… reasons.

Your theory is all speculation and while it could be entirely true that the devs think that Celestial is out of line with the other sets and needed a nerf, I would rather hear it from them directly.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

• Celestial will stay as it is minus the MF bonus on it.
• MF food will work as it is working now.
• Utility Infusion will still work.

Are we going to be able to double click our Celestial to add another stat?

ie.. +10 to Power or something. I soley spent the 25 days crafting my full Celestial set for the MF.

Prices are pulled from the TP as of 10AM PST
We have spent the following with cost in parentheses.
6 Celestial Intricate Gossamer Insignia
30 Bolt of Gossamer (2.88 s per / 17.28 s)
120 Spoll of Gossamer Thread (6.40 s per / 76.80 s)
30 Charged Quartz Crystals = 750 Quartz Crystals (1.48 s per / 11g 10s)
30 Glob of Ectoplasm ( 28s per / 8g.40s)

Total for Celestial Intricate gossamer Insignia 20g 8s 08c

Armor mats to make a full Celestial Set
16 Orchalcum Ingots = 32 Orchalcum Ore (11s per / 3g 52s)
7 Bolt of Gossamer (2.88 s per / 20.16 s)
10 Spoll of Gossamer Thread (6.40s)

Total for full Celestial Armor Set 3g 78s 56c

Obviously the rune fluctuates based of the players choice.
I use Superior Rune of the Pirate x 5 (23.80s per / 1g 19s)

FULL COST OF ARMOR 23g 87s 83c

This does not include the Prime Evil Skin I have on my character that I had to buy the Transmutation Crystals for to make.

My point to this is if you take the MF off the Celestial, then we lost a lot of money that we could have invested into other gear. Majority of us only got Celestial for its MF, so please either allow us to add a stat to replace it or permanently give us the 18% account MF.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts because you contradicted yourself from the first post saying we would be able to swap the MF out.

Lokki.1092:

By that reasoning by having the stat on Celestial originally they defined it as being in line, what has changed to make Celestial out of line, or more powerful and deserving of a nerf?

There are only two possibilities either Celestial was overpowered and in need of a nerf to bring it in balance, or Celestial was in line and is now getting nerfed because of… reasons.

Your theory is all speculation and while it could be entirely true that the devs think that Celestial is out of line with the other sets and needed a nerf, I would rather hear it from them directly.

Fact: All gear was in line prior to the change.
Fact: All gear is having Magic Find % removed.
Fact: Non-Celestial Gear is being replaced with other gear in order to make it in line.
Fact: Celestial Gear is not being replaced but is instead losing Magic Find % to make it in line.

Those are the facts. You cannot disagree with them being facts without being irrational. You can, however, argue that the facts are not fair.

mtpelion.4562:

Lokki.1092:

By that reasoning by having the stat on Celestial originally they defined it as being in line, what has changed to make Celestial out of line, or more powerful and deserving of a nerf?

There are only two possibilities either Celestial was overpowered and in need of a nerf to bring it in balance, or Celestial was in line and is now getting nerfed because of… reasons.

Your theory is all speculation and while it could be entirely true that the devs think that Celestial is out of line with the other sets and needed a nerf, I would rather hear it from them directly.

Fact: All gear was in line prior to the change.
Fact: All gear is having Magic Find % removed.
Fact: Non-Celestial Gear is being replaced with other gear in order to make it in line.
Fact: Celestial Gear is not being replaced but is instead losing Magic Find % to make it in line.

Those are the facts. You cannot disagree with them being facts without being irrational. You can, however, argue that the facts are not fair.

Your first fact and last fact don’t agree with each other and that’s why players want an official response.

Atherakhia.4086:

mtpelion.4562:

Fact: All gear was in line prior to the change.
Fact: All gear is having Magic Find % removed.
Fact: Non-Celestial Gear is being replaced with other gear in order to make it in line.
Fact: Celestial Gear is not being replaced but is instead losing Magic Find % to make it in line.

Those are the facts. You cannot disagree with them being facts without being irrational. You can, however, argue that the facts are not fair.

Your first fact and last fact don’t agree with each other and that’s why players want an official response.

Exactly what I was getting at. Mtpelion cant you see why there is confusion? by your own words “All gear was in line prior to the change.” then if all gear is in line right now today. why is “Celestial Gear losing Magic Find % to make it in line.”

Do we have any idea what the list of sets we are going to be able to replace our magic find gear with?

I mean, I have seen somewhere it is only going to be sets that are craftable (seemingly ruleing out settlers, magi, cavaliers, and valkyrie) but is it going to be limited to a few of those craftable sets? Are we not going to be able to choose the more exotic craftable armor/weapon sets like Givers, apothecary, sentinel’s etc…

bradderzh.2378:

Do we have any idea what the list of sets we are going to be able to replace our magic find gear with?

We’re all still waiting on the magical blog posting we’ve been promised. I hope that post comes before the update, not after. Because if it’s after then it’s useless. Some of us would like to know so we can prepare properly.

I hope its not just limited to the standard zerk, rampager’s, carrion, cleric, knight’s sets because turning my magic find sets into stuff I already have plenty of doesn’t feel like much of a compensation tbh…

mtpelion.4562:

Lokki.1092:

By that reasoning by having the stat on Celestial originally they defined it as being in line, what has changed to make Celestial out of line, or more powerful and deserving of a nerf?

There are only two possibilities either Celestial was overpowered and in need of a nerf to bring it in balance, or Celestial was in line and is now getting nerfed because of… reasons.

Your theory is all speculation and while it could be entirely true that the devs think that Celestial is out of line with the other sets and needed a nerf, I would rather hear it from them directly.

Fact: All gear was in line prior to the change.
Fact: All gear is having Magic Find % removed.
Fact: Non-Celestial Gear is being replaced with other gear in order to make it in line.
Fact: Celestial Gear is not being replaced but is instead losing Magic Find % to make it in line.

Those are the facts. You cannot disagree with them being facts without being irrational. You can, however, argue that the facts are not fair.

I can also argue, that the facts do not say what you claim they say. Let’s do a rundown on the above:

Fact: All gear was in line prior to the change.
Debatable. Remember, “all gear” means not only stats like berserker or knight, and celestials, but also MF gear like traveller and wayfarer. It’s easy to see, that triple stat gears, double stat + MF gears and celestial stat gears were each balanced a bit differently. They were definitely not “in line” (in line with what?). They might have had equal worth (hint: in reality they didn’t. one look at TP would have told you that), but MF was a part of that calculation.
But if all the sets were “in line” before, that means that celestial sets and MF sets were also “in line”. Which, if true, means that (again) definitely MF had to count for that balance. More, it had to be a major consideration.

Fact: All gear is having Magic Find % removed.
Undeniable.

Fact: Non-Celestial Gear is being replaced with other gear in order to make it in line.Also true.
Fact: Celestial Gear is not being replaced but is instead losing Magic Find %
Again, true
to make it in line.Highly debatable assumption. Definitely not a fact.

Nothing in the “facts” above suggests that MF was not a part of balance consideration before. Lot of things suggest it was.

Lokki.1092:

Atherakhia.4086:

mtpelion.4562:

Fact: All gear was in line prior to the change.
Fact: All gear is having Magic Find % removed.
Fact: Non-Celestial Gear is being replaced with other gear in order to make it in line.
Fact: Celestial Gear is not being replaced but is instead losing Magic Find % to make it in line.

Those are the facts. You cannot disagree with them being facts without being irrational. You can, however, argue that the facts are not fair.

Your first fact and last fact don’t agree with each other and that’s why players want an official response.

Exactly what I was getting at. Mtpelion cant you see why there is confusion? by your own words “All gear was in line prior to the change.” then if all gear is in line right now today. why is “Celestial Gear losing Magic Find % to make it in line.”

I understand the confusion. The facts do agree with each other when you consider that ArenaNet is the god of GW and has decreed that what was once is no longer. They decided to change the game by removing Magic Find from gear. They decided that some sets were to be removed completely and replaced with other sets and that Celestial gear would only have the Magic Find removed. They also decided that by doing so, the sets would be balanced based on the new line they created.

You want to know the nuts and bolts of the “why” and that’s fine, but the reality is the “why” really is as simple as “ArenaNet decided” and that’s likely the best you can expect to get.