Guild Wars 2

Palador.2170:

((Stupid new page forum bug. Why is this thing still here?))

Same reason the search box still doesn’t work ;-)

dlonie.6547:

Have you tried putting “no skipping/stacking, lowbies welcome, be cool” or similar in your LFG post? It’s always gotten me more patient/laidback groups. Not as awesome as a good guild, but the next best thing :-)

I have done speedruns with friends, but yeah, I never join “exp only” or “speedclear” LFG posts. They’re usually full of obnoxious kibbehs :-P

Not all of them, but enough of them.

At issue isn’t what I prefer (I have no problem with either “speed-clear” or taking your time). The issue is the complaint that Fractals are “too short” to be considered “real” dungeons, while by my experience the dungeon crowd wants to power through dungeons as quickly as possible anyway.

It’s really hard to accepted “Fractals are too short” when all I’ve personally heard from the dungeon community is “30 minutes is too long for CoE. I’m out.”

It’s a complaint that doesn’t mesh with my personal experience.

Having spent a lot of time with the dungeon subforumers watching, observing, mimicking, waiting to be accepted as one of their own….my impression has been that they’re bored. After the kazillionth time running a path, they don’t want to spend an hour in it killing everything and ranging bosses down. It’s not fun anymore. They’re trying to keep things interesting and challenging by speedclearing and soloing.

They want more challenging content. More Lupis. More archdiviners. More bosses that push them to learn something new. Oneshotting more trash isn’t going to give them a thrill — this is why we’ve been asking for more dungeons, preferably with more challenge.

It’s created a huge rift between exp and inexp players. I personally think a hard mode or similar would be an excellent solution to the social problems this is creating as it would naturally separate these types of players, but ANet has said “No way” to that. :-/

The problem isn’t that Fractals are too short. Its that 5 of them isn’t a significant addition for 2 years of waiting. Like I said, in terms of entertainment value and content, 5 shards is about the equivalent of a single dungeon path. If they added more of them it’d be a little better, though I’d personally prefer to see an new dungeon and everything that comes with it instead.

@Palador: I think the major issue there is the “endgame mentality”. I’ve experienced it a lot in Warcraft. Basically, you have the group of “hardcore” players that insist on running the content and “doing it right”. When they get queued up with more casual players, the hardcore guys are the vocal voice of the group. Constantly saying things like, “You’re doing that wrong”, “that isn’t the correct build”, “we should be doing it this way, it’s faster”.

While not a problem in and of itself, that kind of mentality intimidates the more casual players, and also makes them think that all high-end parties will expect that kind of effort from them. So you get a ton of players that are alienated by the vocal minority, think “I don’t want to deal with these guys again”, and then just avoid the content. That, therefore, drives the population lower, until you’re left with nothing but the dedicated groups (guild dungeon runners), and the “hardcore” players.

Honestly, I think the best (and maybe only) way to make this kind of content more accessible is to just form up guild groups that want to run the content. That way, the players in your guild will likely be more understanding (and if not, they’re in your guild, you’ll see their name around, and know not to run dungeons with them again), and you won’t have to worry about that “hardcore” element complaining that something was done wrong.

It’s not exactly a blanket solution for players everywhere, but reinforcing the idea that you can have fun running dungeons casually with guild members? I think that’s a good mentality to stress. If you get a good guild, you don’t have to worry about the social pressure, which is usually the most crippling issue when doing group content.

Define Endgame.

Social pressure.. If anything there needs to be more pressure as my groups are full of people who just dont give a Professor Yakkington about anyone including themselves.

DonQuack.9025:

Social pressure.. If anything there needs to be more pressure as my groups are full of people who just dont give a Professor Yakkington about anyone including themselves.

Then start up a guild group with people that actually want to do it correctly. Believe it or not, as much as I hear people kittening about not having big enough groups for dungeon content, I’m sure it’s not going to be freakin’ hard to find a guild that’s looking for more dungeon runners. I see calls for it all the dang time.

:D Wheres the fun in that? Cant teach em the one true way if I am locked into a guild.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Remember to always place your trust in the Holy Trinity of DPS.

• May Power, the Father grant you His Might to rain death in the form of large numbers on top of your enemies.
• May Precision, the Son, with His Fury guide your blades into the flimsiest of their armor.
• Though fallen, may Ferocity, the Holy Spirit, imbue you and magnify the virtues of both, the Father and the Son, so that your blows may fall heavy on your foes taking on the shape of more hard-hitting crits.

Spared and blessed be the followers of the Assassin that, though slightly bent on their ways, share our vision of smooth and efficient speedruns.

May you never degenerate and fall and be led astray to the misguided ways of the Rampager, or the nefarious path of the Soldier, or the wretched lanes of the Rabid.

May your faith in the Berserker never falter, your Fury never quenched, and your Might always stacked to 25.
For Great Justice!
Amen.

AMEN!

Kaz’ reply should be a permanent sticky attached to every subforum lol

A bunch of “mini-dungeons” = dungeon what does a bunch of regular dungeons =? “Super dungeon” “Dungeon Squared”

and to quote a special someone

“So your argument is that FotM provides 300 paths (considering the available 4 // 5 // 5 // 3 fractals per tier), so there must be plenty of fresh experiences to be had, right? Who could get bored with that much to do!”

ArenaNet needs to work on advertising. This is an astounding feat! Why isnt " In 2 years we have added 300 dungeon paths!" Plastered everywhere? 300? Thats more than most mmos like pfft ever.

Im not saying they are crap Im just saying if they really believed that it was new dungeons they prolly would have updated the wiki to change this sentence

“There are currently nine dungeons.”

Oh btw

According to the wiki " Jumping puzzles are included in the definition of a mini-dungeon."

HOLY CRAP SO MANY DUNGEONS!

Dont forget to change Mini-Dungeon category as it calls nonsense on fotm being more than a dungeon.

Also are you saying employees of ArenaNet are not also players of the game?

GW2 doesn’t need an endgame , just more game. personally i cant think of a dungeon path in game that i haven’t Soloed, because with groups its gotten stale. FotM i was 30+ in the first week how ever long ago that was. WvW has been the same for me TC, JQ, BG. Finishing up my 4th map completion for 8th legendary now(map completion sucked the first time around. 4th i want to kill myself). Have complete set of ascended armors on few characters. So for a lot of us end game is hoarding gold, investing on things that may go up, and wait for SAB to come back. Halloween, Christmas and maybe legendary trinkets followed by armor after that. Its just wait at this point.

PS: Who needs precursor crafting at this point, have more than i could possible finish.

I would like to add that 42 would be incorrect. Unless you added in http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini-dungeon
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jumping_puzzle

Unless you decide those also arent dungeons then one would be at odds with
“IMO, that’s a great example of changing the definition of something just so that it’s existance can be denied, something that is becomeing a plague on these boards. A dungeon is not ‘defined’ by having 4 or 5 long paths, in an MMO a dungeon is simply a bit of instanced content, that is designed for a group, and generally ends with some sort of boss fight and a reward chest.”

Gaile Gray.6029:

Kaz.5430:

Zodiaci.3218:

I’d sincerely like to know where this rumor originated. No endgame? Is a new story campaign, giant map (and completion), crafting, a new set of dungeons, obtaining legendary weapons, and 3 new areas of the map opening up just not enough for you?
Really, where did this originate?

There seems to be group who are vocal on the forums who suffer from selective amnesia and denial.

For example, since the game has released there have been quite a few additional dungeons added, at least they would be considered dungeon in most games. However many players selectively chose to deny the existence of them, they consider a new dungeon path to not be a new dungeon (even though it would be if it had it’s own entrance), and of course Fractals of the Mist (and each individual fractal) is also “not a dungeon”.

If you look at the dungeons page on the Wiki, there are 9 dungeons in the game (including Fractals of the Mists). Those dungeons containing 42 different paths. Of those 42 paths, 10 of them (23.8%) didn’t exist at launch, but you’ll still hear people shouting that no new dungeons have been added.

This is true for “End Game” content in general, there has actually been a fair bit of End-Game content added, but you’ll never get some of the people on here to admit it. When you point it out to them you get a bizarre response, generally along the lines of “That doesn’t count because it should have been there since launch”. It might not have even been imagined at launch, but it should have been there anyway, so is not new.

You need to understand that the Living Story is not ‘New Storyline’, any new areas added are not ‘New Maps’ and any new words bosses are not ‘New World Bosses’. I’m pretty sure that anything added at all – unless it comes in the form of a boxed expansion – wont be considered new content by some people here, regardless of what it is, and even if it does come in a boxed expansion, there will probably be a group that denies it’s existence because “it should have been there from the start”.

My advice, would be to just enjoy the game, and not try to “understand” these forums.

I am quoting you “for great wisdom.”

Thank you for expressing what was running through my head as I was reading. And with tasty stats, too? Does it get any better than that!!??

I might be arguing semantics here but according to the game itself (or at least the monthly system) Fractals do not count as dungeons. The reasoning behind my statement: when Monthly Dungeon Participation have been an option during a monthly, doing fractals have (at least for me) not progressed the Dungeon Participation.

On the topic about no endgame: I guess that depends on what you want from the game. Me, I’m a fan of siege warfare (can scout hills for hours and still not be bored) so I atleast have WvW as my endgame.

Edit: Fixed the phrasing and a few spelling mistakes.

Shhhhhh. Thats a bug.

Maybe, you should not mistake the quantity of what can be considered an end game with quality of it. Perhaps many people who complain about lack of end game, mean that there’s no challenge in it for them, meaning there’s no entertainment there, as soon as you’re done with leveling, dungeons etc. once, you’re sorta through with all of it. Content is not worth repeating due to lack of challenge/rewards or both, nothing to achieve. It’s just an example, i’am not trying to state something here, not yet, but just as a possible pov of those people.

Because. I never thought that GW2 necessarily lacked, so called, end game activities. There were plenty of them. However, what i repeatedly experienced during my GW2 experience is:
- What shall i do? Dungeons? Sorta meh, because it’s boring stacking faceroll, it’s not even rewards or whatever, it’s just a faceroll, indistinguishable experience of it, of every run. It’s not entirely bad, because it’s ok that you can sometimes go and faceroll through some stuff for whatever, be it tokens, gold, time killing, or just puny bit of fun with couple of friends. But it’s not exactly good either, no matter how you look at it.
- Then what? FotM? Well, same, more or less. And i’am lazy to go deeper.
- Okay, maybe WvW then? Yea well, stick with the zerg, try to turn off your brain, spam 1 and collect loot buttons, enjoy 5-25 fps, woo much fun. No. You see, it’s the quality of it, that’s what i meant. It’s POOR. Doesn’t really matter how often tournaments you will make and how long they will be, they all gonna suck. Just because problem lies elsewhere.
- Fine! PvP then. Yea… There’s a hot join, which, if properly, should be named “Hot Mess” where all of the new souls can be corrupted and given all the wrong ideas about what the PvP is actually about. There’s a SoloQ, which is often frustrating for many people and also semi dead for … well, way too often. Then, there’s also TeamQ, cool, also semi dead though. Then, suddenly, there’s also the fact, which become obvious and apparent especially in PvP, that this game is still horribly bug infested. Yea, you missed your “input your something/skill”, okay — who cares. If yo’re in PvE. Try to tell that to yourself in PvP. #Esports! There’s also lack of game modes, balance, variety in builds. #Esports! #2

kittening QUALITY!?

Zodiaci.3218:

I’d sincerely like to know where this rumor originated. No endgame? Is a new story campaign, giant map (and completion), crafting, a new set of dungeons, obtaining legendary weapons, and 3 new areas of the map opening up just not enough for you?
Really, where did this originate?

After playing WOW for three years calling this endgame is a big joke.

Crafting is a chore with no real benefit besides bragging rights. The dungeons range between terrible to average, none of them are good. And cool, new farming area’s how joyful.

The new story line has been okay so far but many people like me ONLY logged on to play the story and have not logged back on since.

It’s incorrect to say there have been no new dungeons since launch. And when you argue from a hyperbole, people are going to focus on that and tear it apart. So let’s stick to facts.

About 2 months after gw2’s launch, fractals of the mists were added. Whether or not you want to call it a dungeon, it fills the roll of challenging instanced 5 man content with unique skin rewards. This was an excellent addition, and made me incredibly excited about the direction endgame pve was headed.

Then the living story began. Over the course of 2013, 3 new dungeon paths were added. 2 were temporary, but they were cannibalized into fractal shards. Most of the dungeon content added during that year still exists.

Towards the end of the year, however, there were a number of decisions that soured the dungeon community. The biggest disappointment arguably was the fractured patch, which did not open up any higher tiers and reset personal level progression. Despite this, hard core groups rushed to the new 50 to compete for spots on the announced fractal leaderboard. This leaderboard still does not exist. The mistlock instabilities, which were touted as the reason for the overhaul, proved to be an annoyance at best and progress preventing at worse when certain instabilities and shards were combined. Few if any instabilities provided interesting, tatics changing challenges.

The second blow was the aetherpath, which promised to be permanent, but also replaced an existing dungeon path. We found out that forward-up would be deleted less then 24 hours before the patch went live, from a tangential remark in a dev post on a minor sub forum. This really soured the reception of the new path, which combined with some other problematic design decisions (I have a post about here) has made it one of the least popular dungeons paths.

Fast forward to 2014, through the conclusion of season one and the first chapter of season 2. So far, we have seen no new dungeon content. In a recent interview from a developer, we also learned that there are no new paths currently in the pipeline.

What we have here is a decline in focus on 5-man content, and seemingly a loss in connection with the desires of the dungeon community. We went from the promissing addition of fractals a mere 2 months into the games launch, to 2 good but temporary new dungeon paths, to 2 controversial reworks of existing content, to a 9 month dry spell with nothing to look forward to.

This post was a lot longer then I originally intended, but I don’t want the legitimate frustrations of dedicated pve players to be lost in exaggeration and hyperbole. Dungeon runners aren’t leaving for no reason, the trend is there and this past year has been a huge disappointment.

storm officer.1028:

…

This exactly. You say we have soo much dungeons? We got 8. And we got them since 2 years now. They’re stale and not challenging at all. The only reason to still repeat them is to get the gold.

Fractals are not as old as dungeons and can be challenging, but that’s by far not enough to keep people interested for multiple years.

You say we got temporary content? Good, what can I do with it now? Exactly, nothing, it’s gone.

All PvE maps have no reason to be explored twice. There is no reson at all gameplay-wise to go back to Timberline Falls or Snowden Drifts.

We got a worldboss chain, which can be parted into waiting till the boss spawns and pressing 1 till the boss dies. So where exactly is the challenge? Why should I do that day by day for months?

The only endgame this game has is to either join any sort of PvP and seek for challenge (which gets complicated if we factor in the messed up balance) or to farm gold to get gems or legendaries or other fluff. There is no challange, no incentive to repeat the content other than to get the gold. Literally.

The only other “endgame” activity I can think of is to get achievvement points. That is one thing, I wonder how long this will keep the player interested.

It is not like this game is bad, it offers so many possibilities. But those don’t get picked up by the devs and I’m slowly but surely sick of waiting.

It’s nice to hear that atleast some members of the ANet staff think that this game is good how it is. But that doesn’t change my feeling that this game is lackluster.

@Kaz

the biggest content patch GW2 got was on 2012 nov 15, which released half of the new, currently playable new zones and fractal of the mists. But lets say I left the game at the end of november 2012 and came back to the game today, after ~ 20 month. You can’t say I have selective amnesia or I’m in denial (Which sounds pretty insulting by the way) and I ask, what new content is available to me?
Someone gives me a list
Biggest things on that list are:
reworked world bosses, and a new one
New storyline locked behind gemstore (not complaining here, it’s just true)
half of a new zone
A replaced dungeon path
5 new fractal
Some world changes (not really content but worth mentioning)

This list is more like a small dlc and I don’t find it unreasonable for people to expect more.

Here, have my wisdom complete with statistic.

For people that joined past Nov 26th 2013 (fractal update patch) there have been no new dungeons for almost 9 months. Since the next content patch is in early November, for them, at best, it will be almost a year without a new dungeon.

For people that joined past Nov 16th 2012, there have only been 6 new dungeon paths added (Mai Trin Boss battle, Aetherblade fractal, Molten Fractal, Molten Boss battle, Thaumanova Reactor, TA Aetherpath). And that is being generous and considering how TA Aetherpath replaced a previous path and bestowing the title of “dungeon path” to single boss fights. Then again I’m not counting AC revamp because I really wouldn’t know if that counts as new or not. So we’re talking, give or take a few, 6 new dungeon paths in, at best, 1 year 11 months.. I remember this thing called Dungeon Team, where did it go?

Basically what I’m getting at is that Kaz had selective temporal amnesia and forgot that the bulk of new dungeon content was introduced very early on (9 dungeon paths with the original Fractal release 2 months after release) and that after that development on that front has been slowing down month after month. And that would be imo a more reasonable explanation as to why people say that no new dungeons have been added (although I doubt many intend it literally), but I understand it’s always easier to claim that dissatisfied people are a “vocal minority” of “unreasonable haters”.

The following timeline only ignores Tixx, Halloween and Canach “dungeons” and the AC revamp. X indicate months where new dungeon content gets released, – indicate months without them. Starts at release (28 August 2012) ends Nov 2014.

<—-X-2013—-X-X——X-2014—————?>

Seen the problem already?

wasted.6817:

Maybe, you should not mistake the quantity of what can be considered an end game with quality of it. Perhaps many people who complain about lack of end game, mean that there’s no challenge in it for them, meaning there’s no entertainment there, as soon as you’re done with leveling, dungeons etc. once, you’re sorta through with all of it. Content is not worth repeating due to lack of challenge/rewards or both, nothing to achieve. It’s just an example, i’am not trying to state something here, not yet, but just as a possible pov of those people.

Because. I never thought that GW2 necessarily lacked, so called, end game activities. There were plenty of them. However, what i repeatedly experienced during my GW2 experience is:
- What shall i do? Dungeons? Sorta meh, because it’s boring stacking faceroll, it’s not even rewards or whatever, it’s just a faceroll, indistinguishable experience of it, of every run. It’s not entirely bad, because it’s ok that you can sometimes go and faceroll through some stuff for whatever, be it tokens, gold, time killing, or just puny bit of fun with couple of friends. But it’s not exactly good either, no matter how you look at it.
- Then what? FotM? Well, same, more or less. And i’am lazy to go deeper.
- Okay, maybe WvW then? Yea well, stick with the zerg, try to turn off your brain, spam 1 and collect loot buttons, enjoy 5-25 fps, woo much fun. No. You see, it’s the quality of it, that’s what i meant. It’s POOR. Doesn’t really matter how often tournaments you will make and how long they will be, they all gonna suck. Just because problem lies elsewhere.
- Fine! PvP then. Yea… There’s a hot join, which, if properly, should be named “Hot Mess” where all of the new souls can be corrupted and given all the wrong ideas about what the PvP is actually about. There’s a SoloQ, which is often frustrating for many people and also semi dead for … well, way too often. Then, there’s also TeamQ, cool, also semi dead though. Then, suddenly, there’s also the fact, which become obvious and apparent especially in PvP, that this game is still horribly bug infested. Yea, you missed your “input your something/skill”, okay — who cares. If yo’re in PvE. Try to tell that to yourself in PvP. #Esports! There’s also lack of game modes, balance, variety in builds. #Esports! #2

kittening QUALITY!?

This x100. People are very accepting when it comes to the shortcoming of this game because it’s pretty much a free MMO after the orginal purchase. But the truth is if you took some of the content in this game and put it in another game like WOW players would be absolutely outraged.

The part that irks me the most is that to get good gear you have to farm even more than you do in flipping WOW. And the gear in WOW actually gives you a competitive advantage over other players and NPC enemies and WOW has situational gear.

Hi folks, just wanted to pop into summarize the point of my earlier posts, especially with the addition of a red post here:

Define FotM shards as individual dungeons. Fine, it really doesn’t matter.

Claim and advertise that there are 45 of them in game. No problem.

Feel free to define the broad range of instanced content in the game under the term “dungeons”.

But you must admit that then there is a wide variety of quality and entertainment value in the ‘dungeons’ that create this menagerie of instanced content.

The point of the “there are no dungeons” complaint you keep hearing is that when players say they want more dungeons, they don’t mean more FotM shards. They mean dungeons like TA, AC, Arah…let’s call them “dungeon systems” since after all, they consist of multiple paths.

A new:

• Location on a map that possibly ties in with lore and has an interesting representation of the style of the map.
• Consistently themed collection of a story path and 3-4 explorable paths featuring multiple boss encounters.
• A reward system consistent with the other “dungeon systems” (non-RNG, tokens + gold)
• New armors and weapon skins unlockable through tokens.

I’ve heard it frequently said that people would be happiest with one new Arah-style dungeon system per year. Whether or not every detail of this wish is feasible, it gives a feel for what type of new content they are looking for.

These are the dungeons that players of this game refer to when they just say “dungeons”. ACp1 is not considered a separate dungeon from ACp2, they are considered to be two paths of the same dungeon. Similarly, FotM shards are not viewed as individual dungeons in colloquial usage of the term; they are one-quarter of a fractal run, which is on par with a single dungeon path.

Rather than argue the meaning of our words in order to justify missing the point completely, try to understand what we’re saying. Players are saying that 5 new boss encounters in two years is not enough to keep us from getting bored and leaving the game. Other players don’t have to agree and they are welcome to stay and enjoy the aspects of the game that they enjoy. But are we not free to share our problems with the game in hopes of improving it?

Most of my guild (not even one of those “toxic” speedclear guilds, BTW, but a casual teaching guild for PHIWs) has quit and gone to other games out of boredom. Many of the regulars on the dungeon forums, including the non-toxic ones (yes, they exist!) have vanished over the last few months. I can’t even bring myself to log in more than about once a month because there is nothing left that interests me.

I wish these conversations would end up discussing possibilities and attempting reaching an understanding more often, instead of just shutting down into a battle between the white knights and the toxic elitists. We’re trying to get you to hear something.

Kaz’s reply is a typical “save the day” forum reply. As seen above, people actually agree that FoTM is a dungeon. When most of the people say that there’s “nothing new added”, they don’t usually mean “null, zero, nothing at all”, but rather “very little” – as you can see from the replies to Kaz’s comment.
As a matter of further explanation, I’ll give you what most of the people here ( correct me if I’m wrong ) mean when they say “there’s no new endgame content here”. One link should be sufficient: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Campaign
Open each page of GW1’s campaigns + expansion ( EoTN ) and see how much “new endgame content” was added within 2 years of game’s premiere ( exactly how old GW2 is atm ). You will quickly understand why the people who were familiar with the GW universe long before GW2 was created, have started to complain again the lack of “new endgame content” in GW2.
Anyone familiar with GW2 and ANet’s policy will also know that the living story is a means of addressing “the development of Guild Wars 2 and its new content”, instead of traditional box-expansions that GW1 had. Again, anyone trying to look at the matter from the objective point of view will get the thing: the game is developing, as well as adding new content too slow, hence such great dissatisfaction here on the forums.
One more thing, Kaz. Please, learn to have some more respect to people who try to have an adult conversation here, and stop insulting them with your “amnesia or denial” examples, i.e. other forum users.

I think that when people say we need more “end game” they mean more to do at end game. People have been asking for more for a while. We all fell in love with the game at launch and want more of it. The little bit that has been given after 2 years is pitiful. We who played Guild Wars and all its expansions know that arenanet is capable of so much more. 1.5 maps is not anything compared to the multiple continents that came in the expansions in the same amount of time. They say this type of content is going to come from the living story. At the current rate it will take the LS 10 years to give the same amount of content that Guild Wars first expansion did in 1 year.

How is anyone’s in game experience negatively affected by arenanet adding more dungeons, skills, traits, weapon types, classes, and update more on pve, wvw, and pvp like maps and bosses and game modes. I’m happy for you if you are still satisfied with the status quo but does it hurt you if they give you more of any of these things.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

storm officer.1028:

…

This exactly. You say we have soo much dungeons? We got 8. And we got them since 2 years now. They’re stale and not challenging at all. The only reason to still repeat them is to get the gold.

Fractals are not as old as dungeons and can be challenging, but that’s by far not enough to keep people interested for multiple years.

You say we got temporary content? Good, what can I do with it now? Exactly, nothing, it’s gone.

All PvE maps have no reason to be explored twice. There is no reson at all gameplay-wise to go back to Timberline Falls or Snowden Drifts.

We got a worldboss chain, which can be parted into waiting till the boss spawns and pressing 1 till the boss dies. So where exactly is the challenge? Why should I do that day by day for months?

The only endgame this game has is to either join any sort of PvP and seek for challenge (which gets complicated if we factor in the messed up balance) or to farm gold to get gems or legendaries or other fluff. There is no challange, no incentive to repeat the content other than to get the gold. Literally.

The only other “endgame” activity I can think of is to get achievvement points. That is one thing, I wonder how long this will keep the player interested.

It is not like this game is bad, it offers so many possibilities. But those don’t get picked up by the devs and I’m slowly but surely sick of waiting.

It’s nice to hear that atleast some members of the ANet staff think that this game is good how it is. But that doesn’t change my feeling that this game is lackluster.

This also.

When this game came out I had high hopes for it. And it seems like every month that hopes dies little by little for me. I mean at the rate this game is going with content it’s going to be about 6-10 years before we come to the conclusion of the dragons. And then there is Elona, the locked maps, etc.

I want to enjoy this game I really do but I have lost interest in skins and other cosmetics. I could care less about having more than 500 gold. And my gear is good enough to do all end game content if they do not raise the levels. Which I do not see them ever doing because that will make all that farming people have done a waste of time.

rfdarko.4639:

It’s incorrect to say there have been no new dungeons since launch. And when you argue from a hyperbole, people are going to focus on that and tear it apart. So let’s stick to facts.

About 2 months after gw2’s launch, fractals of the mists were added. Whether or not you want to call it a dungeon, it fills the roll of challenging instanced 5 man content with unique skin rewards. This was an excellent addition, and made me incredibly excited about the direction endgame pve was headed.

Then the living story began. Over the course of 2013, 3 new dungeon paths were added. 2 were temporary, but they were cannibalized into fractal shards. Most of the dungeon content added during that year still exists.

Towards the end of the year, however, there were a number of decisions that soured the dungeon community. The biggest disappointment arguably was the fractured patch, which did not open up any higher tiers and reset personal level progression. Despite this, hard core groups rushed to the new 50 to compete for spots on the announced fractal leaderboard. This leaderboard still does not exist. The mistlock instabilities, which were touted as the reason for the overhaul, proved to be an annoyance at best and progress preventing at worse when certain instabilities and shards were combined. Few if any instabilities provided interesting, tatics changing challenges.

The second blow was the aetherpath, which promised to be permanent, but also replaced an existing dungeon path. We found out that forward-up would be deleted less then 24 hours before the patch went live, from a tangential remark in a dev post on a minor sub forum. This really soured the reception of the new path, which combined with some other problematic design decisions (I have a post about here) has made it one of the least popular dungeons paths.

Fast forward to 2014, through the conclusion of season one and the first chapter of season 2. So far, we have seen no new dungeon content. In a recent interview from a developer, we also learned that there are no new paths currently in the pipeline.

What we have here is a decline in focus on 5-man content, and seemingly a loss in connection with the desires of the dungeon community. We went from the promissing addition of fractals a mere 2 months into the games launch, to 2 good but temporary new dungeon paths, to 2 controversial reworks of existing content, to a 9 month dry spell with nothing to look forward to.

This post was a lot longer then I originally intended, but I don’t want the legitimate frustrations of dedicated pve players to be lost in exaggeration and hyperbole. Dungeon runners aren’t leaving for no reason, the trend is there and this past year has been a huge disappointment.

<3

This guy gets it.

Well put, respectful, and a reasoned tone. Thank you.

We might even stay if there was any hope on the horizon. Hell, that hope kept me logging in for at least 8 months by now after the majority of my friends left for FFXIV because they (correctly, it appears) lost faith in ever seeing more challenging dungeon content.

But after the announcement that there was nothing even in the works? Why would I even bother logging in now? It’s a dead end. I’m only on the forums because I have a sliver of hope that ArenaNet might catch on to do something to keep vets from leaving.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Kaz.5430:

There seems to be group who are vocal on the forums who suffer from selective amnesia and denial.

snip for brevity

My advice, would be to just enjoy the game, and not try to “understand” these forums.

I am quoting you “for great wisdom.”

Thank you for expressing what was running through my head as I was reading. And with tasty stats, too? Does it get any better than that!!??

Or “For Great Justice”…

I think the reason people complain now more than ever is ANet pretty much blew it’s entire load in the first year. This year has been lack-luster and sprinkled with stuff people didn’t want (myself personally, megaservers, the trait system and the NPE). While i think what they’ve built is pretty amazing, I still struggle with repeating mostly lackluster new content this year. The first year however, was pretty stellar, minus the BLC insanity and some other minor set-backs.

My personal take is, they are cutting corners too much. They are implementing time-gates to try and keep people interested in chasing goals, on top of trying to cater to too much audience. GW (the original) had far more heart when it came to sticking to it’s design and goals. While i don’t think it ever was even close to as big a game as GW2, people stuck around because it felt good to play a game that had that sense, that connection. I know i personally reflect on those events and participation from folks like Gaile all those years. This feels, less so, more corporate, more cold. There just seems to be far to much emphasis on how to roll out features as cheap as possible, over let’s build on the game we love.

In closing “Anger Rising” :P, not really, but you get the idea.

It’s pretty simple. The players like this game for various reasons. For the graphics, their community, the gameplay or the lore. They’re looking for things to do in the game.

What do they find?

Open world PvE:
Lore-wise the game is interesting but it’s now 2 years old. Reward-wise, the open world PvE was never considerable.

Dungeons and Fractals:
Lore-wise, same as the open world, not enough to keep players interested for long.
Loot-wise the best thing to do but very tedious.

World Bosses:
Almost no lore and also very tedious. Why should anyone having fun killing a boss for the 100th time?

Living World:
Simply not enough content for two weeks. Since this is the only “new”, it gets all the attention. However the story is half-baked and give no incentive to repeat them that often.

So yeah, you can repeat all the good stuff this game got since 2 years, but as long as it doesn’t change the feeling many players have, it will be worthless.

And not to sound like I just want to attack ANET but I would just love to see a different approach taken. Look at the dungeons in WOW, people had real fun Doing Zul’Farrak, the Dead Mines, Scarlet Manor, etc. And the unique rewards you got doing them made it all that much better.

The dungeons we have are simply not fun and lack unique rewards stat wise. I think part of the reason is the balance ANET tried to create. No one has a real role in a group besides mashing 1, running in circles, and stacking. There is no group leader, there is no tank that everyone depends on to keep the much stronger enemies at bay, there is no healer to keep the group alive. The lack of roles eliminates the whole strategy aspect that you see in other games.

The dungeon problem is simple. They made the mistake of tying the Story paths of each dungeon to Destiny’s Edge and can’t afford/won’t budget those voice actors any more.

The introduction of DE-Lite in the Living Story is testament to this. It’s a very, very safe bet that we’ll never see new content featuring the voices of Logan, Eir, Rytlock, Caithe and Zojja again.

Kaz.5430:

Zodiaci.3218:

I’d sincerely like to know where this rumor originated. No endgame? Is a new story campaign, giant map (and completion), crafting, a new set of dungeons, obtaining legendary weapons, and 3 new areas of the map opening up just not enough for you?
Really, where did this originate?

There seems to be group who are vocal on the forums who suffer from selective amnesia and denial.

For example, since the game has released there have been quite a few additional dungeons added, at least they would be considered dungeon in most games. However many players selectively chose to deny the existence of them, they consider a new dungeon path to not be a new dungeon (even though it would be if it had it’s own entrance), and of course Fractals of the Mist (and each individual fractal) is also “not a dungeon”.

If you look at the dungeons page on the Wiki, there are 9 dungeons in the game (including Fractals of the Mists). Those dungeons containing 42 different paths. Of those 42 paths, 10 of them (23.8%) didn’t exist at launch, but you’ll still hear people shouting that no new dungeons have been added.

This is true for “End Game” content in general, there has actually been a fair bit of End-Game content added, but you’ll never get some of the people on here to admit it. When you point it out to them you get a bizarre response, generally along the lines of “That doesn’t count because it should have been there since launch”. It might not have even been imagined at launch, but it should have been there anyway, so is not new.

You need to understand that the Living Story is not ‘New Storyline’, any new areas added are not ‘New Maps’ and any new words bosses are not ‘New World Bosses’. I’m pretty sure that anything added at all – unless it comes in the form of a boxed expansion – wont be considered new content by some people here, regardless of what it is, and even if it does come in a boxed expansion, there will probably be a group that denies it’s existence because “it should have been there from the start”.

My advice, would be to just enjoy the game, and not try to “understand” these forums.

Again, don’t sugarcoat things. Acting as if dungeons/fractals are actually an area of Anet’s interest is false. You can’t act as if one fractal is equivalent to an entire dungeon either. Thats flat our lying. Saying things like new dungeons have been added lol. I’ll give you the history of permanent content fractals/dungeon we’ve had in this game.

November 2012 – Fractal
October 2013 – New dungeon path(also erased one to make room)
November 2013 – Fractals update with new features and 3 new fractals and 2 new boss fractals.

Thats 3 updates to the entire area of dungeons/fractals in 2 years. Ye, thats real dedication to the endgame. The point is, Anet has many different avenues for where endgame could be developed, but they only focus on one. The living story tv show.

With the current state of the show, its nice to stop by each week and get yourself caught up with each episode, yet you find yourself usually watching each episode to see the cliffhanger at the end anyway. Then by the time you are done, you find no real reason to watch the episode again. Maybe when the season is finally finished you will decide to watch it from start to finish, but who knows when that will be.

You say things like there has been a decent amount of endgame content placed in game yet fail to back up these claims, or make them sound bigger than they actually are.

The only grudge i have with this game is the amount of grind, despite developers during development stating they are against grinding “looks at legendary weapons”

But there is enough endgame, WvW, sPvP, Dungeons and fracticals besides live story update and constant meta-events

Even though i miss the good old hardcore raiding MMO’s, it wouldn’t fit GW2, as there are no real roles here, meaning 5 players or 12 wouldn’t really change difficulty besides overcomplicating things

BlackGhostz.2483:

And not to sound like I just want to attack ANET but I would just love to see a different approach taken. Look at the dungeons in WOW, people had real fun Doing Zul’Farrak, the Dead Mines, Scarlet Manor, etc. And the unique rewards you got doing them made it all that much better.

The dungeons we have are simply not fun and lack unique rewards stat wise. I think part of the reason is the balance ANET tried to create. No one has a real role in a group besides mashing 1, running in circles, and stacking. There is no group leader, there is no tank that everyone depends on to keep the much stronger enemies at bay, there is no healer to keep the group alive. The lack of roles eliminates the whole strategy aspect that you see in other games.

While i don’t miss the locked-to-profession trinity, i really have to agree with this. Roles are actually important, it sucks to say it, since that’s not the direction of this game. It’s a bad thing to HAVE to have an x character, but man, when you make that stellar save in some of these game modes (PvP included) it just feels good, makes you want to excel. It’d be nice to have a true hybrid, maybe one that can actually spec to be the tank and healer (basically everyone is DPS). Maybe i’m just too nostalgic… I think the best hybrids come out of being able to spec for each situation. Meaning you can actually be a tank when needed or a healer, or DPS, when the party requires those roles be filled.

There is no end game no character progression and arena net lost the hard core players long time ago they are back to wow no carrot on stick to chase nothing i know its not for some players hell its not even for me but for some reason i still think arena net will bring some sort of progression
chasing skins playing dress up game not good and honestly Gaile Gray ofc you gonna defend the the game which pays your bills but honestly 0 interesting end game .Its sad cuz this game had the potential to kill wow and be the next best thing but it blew it so much

SkylightMoon.2098:

Again, don’t sugarcoat things. Acting as if dungeons/fractals are actually an area of Anet’s interest is false. You can’t act as if one fractal is equivalent to an entire dungeon either. Thats flat our lying. Saying things like new dungeons have been added lol. I’ll give you the history of permanent content fractals/dungeon we’ve had in this game.

November 2012 – Fractal
October 2013 – New dungeon path(also erased one to make room)
November 2013 – Fractals update with new features and 3 new fractals and 2 new boss fractals.

Thats 3 updates to the entire area of dungeons/fractals in 2 years. Ye, thats real dedication to the endgame. The point is, Anet has many different avenues for where endgame could be developed, but they only focus on one. The living story tv show.

With the current state of the show, its nice to stop by each week and get yourself caught up with each episode, yet you find yourself usually watching each episode to see the cliffhanger at the end anyway. Then by the time you are done, you find no real reason to watch the episode again. Maybe when the season is finally finished you will decide to watch it from start to finish, but who knows when that will be.

You say things like there has been a decent amount of endgame content placed in game yet fail to back up these claims, or make them sound bigger than they actually are.

Agreed. While adding one path to a dungeon or modifying a path could be considered (and, yes it takes a lot of work), from a player perspective (something the team kinda lacks, understandably) it’s not new content, at least not so much that people are motivated to play.

Fractals, while a really good idea, lacks the thought out concept that people would rather “roll” to get what they want. That’s kinda my gripe about fractals in general. I get such crap most of the time (underwater fractal) that half way or even 1/4 way through, i just want to jump off a bridge. I dunno really, I mean i loved UW and FoW, Urgoz Warren and The Deep, they actually had unique rewards and were generally fun (once you got a well rounded group together). But, i guess that’s the conundrum, who wants to wait around to have that happen? There was definitely the sense though that you “could” fill a role when you had multiple toons. I could be a healer, or DPS or Tank as required. Anyway, i don’t think the answer is “let’s bring back a trinity” but i bet, if anet focused on being able to “role” any toon you wanted to play, it would be a huge impact on the game. Right now, the difference between stats and traits are barely worth it. It’s just easier for all of us to run full zerkers and be done with it.

Gele.2048:

/snip……. arena net lost the hard core players long time ago…..

I am having a hard time seeing this as a bad thing.I don’t believe that GW2 was ever intended to cater to the hard core crowd. And that is a good thing, imo.

rfdarko.4639:

It’s incorrect to say there have been no new dungeons since launch. And when you argue from a hyperbole, people are going to focus on that and tear it apart. So let’s stick to facts.

About 2 months after gw2’s launch, fractals of the mists were added. Whether or not you want to call it a dungeon, it fills the roll of challenging instanced 5 man content with unique skin rewards. This was an excellent addition, and made me incredibly excited about the direction endgame pve was headed.

Then the living story began. Over the course of 2013, 3 new dungeon paths were added. 2 were temporary, but they were cannibalized into fractal shards. Most of the dungeon content added during that year still exists.

Towards the end of the year, however, there were a number of decisions that soured the dungeon community. The biggest disappointment arguably was the fractured patch, which did not open up any higher tiers and reset personal level progression. Despite this, hard core groups rushed to the new 50 to compete for spots on the announced fractal leaderboard. This leaderboard still does not exist. The mistlock instabilities, which were touted as the reason for the overhaul, proved to be an annoyance at best and progress preventing at worse when certain instabilities and shards were combined. Few if any instabilities provided interesting, tatics changing challenges.

The second blow was the aetherpath, which promised to be permanent, but also replaced an existing dungeon path. We found out that forward-up would be deleted less then 24 hours before the patch went live, from a tangential remark in a dev post on a minor sub forum. This really soured the reception of the new path, which combined with some other problematic design decisions (I have a post about here) has made it one of the least popular dungeons paths.

Fast forward to 2014, through the conclusion of season one and the first chapter of season 2. So far, we have seen no new dungeon content. In a recent interview from a developer, we also learned that there are no new paths currently in the pipeline.

What we have here is a decline in focus on 5-man content, and seemingly a loss in connection with the desires of the dungeon community. We went from the promissing addition of fractals a mere 2 months into the games launch, to 2 good but temporary new dungeon paths, to 2 controversial reworks of existing content, to a 9 month dry spell with nothing to look forward to.

This post was a lot longer then I originally intended, but I don’t want the legitimate frustrations of dedicated pve players to be lost in exaggeration and hyperbole. Dungeon runners aren’t leaving for no reason, the trend is there and this past year has been a huge disappointment.

I’m quoting this “for GREATER wisdom!!!”

Thank you sir for posting such an on-target reply w/o resorting to undermining the other sides with petty insults.

Teon.5168:

I don’t believe that GW2 was ever intended to cater to the hard core crowd

Sadly, I agree. It seems they viewed the content we enjoy as mistakes and just put them on life-support.

rfdarko.4639:

It’s incorrect to say there have been no new dungeons since launch. And when you argue from a hyperbole, people are going to focus on that and tear it apart. So let’s stick to facts.

About 2 months after gw2’s launch, fractals of the mists were added. Whether or not you want to call it a dungeon, it fills the roll of challenging instanced 5 man content with unique skin rewards. This was an excellent addition, and made me incredibly excited about the direction endgame pve was headed.

Then the living story began. Over the course of 2013, 3 new dungeon paths were added. 2 were temporary, but they were cannibalized into fractal shards. Most of the dungeon content added during that year still exists.

Towards the end of the year, however, there were a number of decisions that soured the dungeon community. The biggest disappointment arguably was the fractured patch, which did not open up any higher tiers and reset personal level progression. Despite this, hard core groups rushed to the new 50 to compete for spots on the announced fractal leaderboard. This leaderboard still does not exist. The mistlock instabilities, which were touted as the reason for the overhaul, proved to be an annoyance at best and progress preventing at worse when certain instabilities and shards were combined. Few if any instabilities provided interesting, tatics changing challenges.

The second blow was the aetherpath, which promised to be permanent, but also replaced an existing dungeon path. We found out that forward-up would be deleted less then 24 hours before the patch went live, from a tangential remark in a dev post on a minor sub forum. This really soured the reception of the new path, which combined with some other problematic design decisions (I have a post about here) has made it one of the least popular dungeons paths.

Fast forward to 2014, through the conclusion of season one and the first chapter of season 2. So far, we have seen no new dungeon content. In a recent interview from a developer, we also learned that there are no new paths currently in the pipeline.

What we have here is a decline in focus on 5-man content, and seemingly a loss in connection with the desires of the dungeon community. We went from the promissing addition of fractals a mere 2 months into the games launch, to 2 good but temporary new dungeon paths, to 2 controversial reworks of existing content, to a 9 month dry spell with nothing to look forward to.

This post was a lot longer then I originally intended, but I don’t want the legitimate frustrations of dedicated pve players to be lost in exaggeration and hyperbole. Dungeon runners aren’t leaving for no reason, the trend is there and this past year has been a huge disappointment.

^ thank you for your wisdom.

SkylightMoon.2098:

rfdarko.4639:

It’s incorrect to say there have been no new dungeons since launch. And when you argue from a hyperbole, people are going to focus on that and tear it apart. So let’s stick to facts.

About 2 months after gw2’s launch, fractals of the mists were added. Whether or not you want to call it a dungeon, it fills the roll of challenging instanced 5 man content with unique skin rewards. This was an excellent addition, and made me incredibly excited about the direction endgame pve was headed.

Then the living story began. Over the course of 2013, 3 new dungeon paths were added. 2 were temporary, but they were cannibalized into fractal shards. Most of the dungeon content added during that year still exists.

Towards the end of the year, however, there were a number of decisions that soured the dungeon community. The biggest disappointment arguably was the fractured patch, which did not open up any higher tiers and reset personal level progression. Despite this, hard core groups rushed to the new 50 to compete for spots on the announced fractal leaderboard. This leaderboard still does not exist. The mistlock instabilities, which were touted as the reason for the overhaul, proved to be an annoyance at best and progress preventing at worse when certain instabilities and shards were combined. Few if any instabilities provided interesting, tatics changing challenges.

The second blow was the aetherpath, which promised to be permanent, but also replaced an existing dungeon path. We found out that forward-up would be deleted less then 24 hours before the patch went live, from a tangential remark in a dev post on a minor sub forum. This really soured the reception of the new path, which combined with some other problematic design decisions (I have a post about here) has made it one of the least popular dungeons paths.

Fast forward to 2014, through the conclusion of season one and the first chapter of season 2. So far, we have seen no new dungeon content. In a recent interview from a developer, we also learned that there are no new paths currently in the pipeline.

What we have here is a decline in focus on 5-man content, and seemingly a loss in connection with the desires of the dungeon community. We went from the promissing addition of fractals a mere 2 months into the games launch, to 2 good but temporary new dungeon paths, to 2 controversial reworks of existing content, to a 9 month dry spell with nothing to look forward to.

This post was a lot longer then I originally intended, but I don’t want the legitimate frustrations of dedicated pve players to be lost in exaggeration and hyperbole. Dungeon runners aren’t leaving for no reason, the trend is there and this past year has been a huge disappointment.

^ thank you for your wisdom.

+1 too you sir/madam

rfdarko.4639:

It’s incorrect to say there have been no new dungeons since launch. And when you argue from a hyperbole, people are going to focus on that and tear it apart. So let’s stick to facts.

About 2 months after gw2’s launch, fractals of the mists were added. Whether or not you want to call it a dungeon, it fills the roll of challenging instanced 5 man content with unique skin rewards. This was an excellent addition, and made me incredibly excited about the direction endgame pve was headed.

Then the living story began. Over the course of 2013, 3 new dungeon paths were added. 2 were temporary, but they were cannibalized into fractal shards. Most of the dungeon content added during that year still exists.

Towards the end of the year, however, there were a number of decisions that soured the dungeon community. The biggest disappointment arguably was the fractured patch, which did not open up any higher tiers and reset personal level progression. Despite this, hard core groups rushed to the new 50 to compete for spots on the announced fractal leaderboard. This leaderboard still does not exist. The mistlock instabilities, which were touted as the reason for the overhaul, proved to be an annoyance at best and progress preventing at worse when certain instabilities and shards were combined. Few if any instabilities provided interesting, tatics changing challenges.

The second blow was the aetherpath, which promised to be permanent, but also replaced an existing dungeon path. We found out that forward-up would be deleted less then 24 hours before the patch went live, from a tangential remark in a dev post on a minor sub forum. This really soured the reception of the new path, which combined with some other problematic design decisions (I have a post about here) has made it one of the least popular dungeons paths.

Fast forward to 2014, through the conclusion of season one and the first chapter of season 2. So far, we have seen no new dungeon content. In a recent interview from a developer, we also learned that there are no new paths currently in the pipeline.

What we have here is a decline in focus on 5-man content, and seemingly a loss in connection with the desires of the dungeon community. We went from the promissing addition of fractals a mere 2 months into the games launch, to 2 good but temporary new dungeon paths, to 2 controversial reworks of existing content, to a 9 month dry spell with nothing to look forward to.

This post was a lot longer then I originally intended, but I don’t want the legitimate frustrations of dedicated pve players to be lost in exaggeration and hyperbole. Dungeon runners aren’t leaving for no reason, the trend is there and this past year has been a huge disappointment.

Nice post.

Kaz.5430:

Zodiaci.3218:

I’d sincerely like to know where this rumor originated. No endgame? Is a new story campaign, giant map (and completion), crafting, a new set of dungeons, obtaining legendary weapons, and 3 new areas of the map opening up just not enough for you?
Really, where did this originate?

There seems to be group who are vocal on the forums who suffer from selective amnesia and denial.

For example, since the game has released there have been quite a few additional dungeons added, at least they would be considered dungeon in most games. However many players selectively chose to deny the existence of them, they consider a new dungeon path to not be a new dungeon (even though it would be if it had it’s own entrance), and of course Fractals of the Mist (and each individual fractal) is also “not a dungeon”.

If you look at the dungeons page on the Wiki, there are 9 dungeons in the game (including Fractals of the Mists). Those dungeons containing 42 different paths. Of those 42 paths, 10 of them (23.8%) didn’t exist at launch, but you’ll still hear people shouting that no new dungeons have been added.

This is true for “End Game” content in general, there has actually been a fair bit of End-Game content added, but you’ll never get some of the people on here to admit it. When you point it out to them you get a bizarre response, generally along the lines of “That doesn’t count because it should have been there since launch”. It might not have even been imagined at launch, but it should have been there anyway, so is not new.

You need to understand that the Living Story is not ‘New Storyline’, any new areas added are not ‘New Maps’ and any new words bosses are not ‘New World Bosses’. I’m pretty sure that anything added at all – unless it comes in the form of a boxed expansion – wont be considered new content by some people here, regardless of what it is, and even if it does come in a boxed expansion, there will probably be a group that denies it’s existence because “it should have been there from the start”.

My advice, would be to just enjoy the game, and not try to “understand” these forums.

So what do we call Dungeons? “non fractal dungeons”? they have quite a different mechanic.

one I get to choose the path I want to do, I like a certain path, or a certian dungeon, I can do that one.

The other I roll a dice and hope it’s one I enjoy and not one I dread.

Pretty big difference and one of the reasons I am not a fan of fractals. I hate the RNG with a deep burning passion.

Jerus.4350:

So what do we call Dungeons? “non fractal dungeons”? they have quite a different mechanic.

one I get to choose the path I want to do, I like a certain path, or a certian dungeon, I can do that one.

The other I roll a dice and hope it’s one I enjoy and not one I dread.

Pretty big difference and one of the reasons I am not a fan of fractals. I hate the RNG with a deep burning passion.

It’d be pretty sweet to be able to choose. Probably give them good in-game feedback on what is popular too. It won’t totally tell them why for sure, but at least they’d know what.

If you look at MMO’s in general, endgame consists of:

1. Stuff to do; sometimes, but not always, this stuff requires groups of players
2. Rewards to make repeating the “stuff” palatable over time
3. Character progression — this does not have to mean characters getting stronger, but that is often the case; progression could be anything where something is added to the character
4. Content progression: one of the certainties of MMO design is that players will burn through new content, achieve new goals, progress to the end of whatever progression is available much faster than developers can crank it out. This condition gets even more complicated by the fact that MMO’s attract multiple demographics, and they don’t all like the same things. However, good endgame will consist of something new to do on a regular basis, with the rewards and progression as part of it.

GW2 has all of these, so it has endgame. However, ANet’s task is complicated by the fact that content aimed at one demographic will leave others cold, meaning that most demographics will not see something aimed at them anywhere as often as they’d like.

My personal preference would have been a GW endgame model: successive packets of content consisting of zones, story and skins; coupled with achievements, coupled with elite instances with an ongoing infusion of new skins that fuel desire to run those instances. That’s not what GW2 provides, nor does it provide the raid/gear tier endgame established by the Big Dog.

Other than hype statements like, “The whole game is endgame!” I’ve yet to see a definitive statement by ANet as to what endgame is. Based on what has been said, and based on observation, I’d say that endgame is supposed to be limited stat pursuit (Ascended), limited cosmetic pursuit (Legendary) and Living World, with occasional bones thrown to various demographics (e.g., Teq, TW to appeal to large scale, organized content fans).

I’d really like to see ANet discuss their current ideas on endgame, especially in light of the game being 2+ years old.

Zodiaci.3218:

a new set of dungeons,

They added a new set of dungeons! YES!!!
/me checks game
Oh, you’re just making stuff up. Since you’re making stuff up, do I even have to come up with a counter argument?

I’m not complaining at all, but this is something we’ve seen in GW1.

Go to your fruit basket and take an apple from it, take a knitting needle (preferably the thick kind), and drive it through the apple and out the other side.

Is there a new path ? yes, is it the same apple? yes. it will continue to be the same apple until you either run out of spaces to make a new path through the apple, or the apple disintegrates, until you reach for a new apple from your fruit basket but is it the same as your first apple? no, its entirely and very likely a different shape than the previous one.

The problem is you’ve made Guild Wars 2, an amazingly beautiful place to play we’re just gob smacked in awe, but I think we’d rather see ‘new’ apples than eat the old ones.

I’m not “Making stuff up”, bloomin’ tossehs.
I never said the endgame was “Just added.” I said it “Opens up” when you reach 80.
Orr, Southsun, Drytop. Areas.
Fractals, (Say what you wish, I don’t care. They are dungeons, it’s really not hard.)
I’m not sure where you’re getting this “Dungeon Grinding” kitten from, I don’t do that very much, but different strokes, different folks, I guess. (Although since you hate it, maybe you shooouuulddn’t dooo it?)
Living World, it’s a new story campaign, I really don’t know how to be more clear.
The endgame does not kittening start at level 1, that’s just some sort of marketing thing, that does not count as endgame.
“Raids”. “Why do you raid?” “To get the best items.” “And what do you use those items for?” “TO RAID WITH”
I’m sorry. Clearly I’ve asked the wrong question, you all clearly view games as a set of features rather than an experience. You must get bored very easily, twitchy twitchy. What else did I expect from gamers?

P.S. If you are this bored of the actual game, then why are you going on a website that you do a kitten ton of reading related to the game on? That makes no sense.

Yes, I know, “It’s been there” isn’t really helping my case… but… IT HAS!
IT’S BEEN THERE SINCE LAUNCH!

It’s not the GAME’S fault that you got through it all, “There is none” and “I finished it.” are completely different things.

No, I’m not “New” to the game in any sense.

What a story.
So I asked on the forum “Why do you not consider this endgame” and half of them said that the things that I listed, which open up after level 80, do not count, and others just proclaimed I was “making them up”.
Others tried explaining to them why it does count, to which they can only respond with “No it doesn’t.” Or quote what THEIR definition of something is, rather than the actual, literal definiton.
They thought that since the things I’ve listed have already been done by them, I was making it up, and again, they put words in my mouth.
Apparently, since their definition of “endgame” has been done in OTHER games, it is automatically boring here, as they’ve done it already. It appears I was wrong to judge this game as an individual game, and should rather have judged it as an experience they’ve already had before in something entirely different.