Guild Wars 2

Can the people who can only play 1-2 hours a night explain to me why they want ascended gear?

Stark.1350:

Can the people who can only play 1-2 hours a night explain to me why they want ascended gear?

fractals?
WvW?
Arah speed clears?

phys.7689:

Stark.1350:

Can the people who can only play 1-2 hours a night explain to me why they want ascended gear?

fractals?
WvW?
Arah speed clears?

So a casual player who can only invest that amount of time needs gear for level 30+ fractals? I say that because the accessories you can get for just by logging in will carry you that far. Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Devata.6589:

The exact interpretation and how people feel it is subjective, that does not mean there is no general meaning for the word.

If you’re going to insist on using the word grind, and you’re going to insist on a definition, you should use ANet’s. After all, the thread topic was their philosophy.

Stark.1350:

phys.7689:

Stark.1350:

Can the people who can only play 1-2 hours a night explain to me why they want ascended gear?

fractals?
WvW?
Arah speed clears?

So a casual player who can only invest that amount of time needs gear for level 30+ fractals? I say that because the accessories you can get for just by logging in will carry you that far. Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

if you have been doing 2 fractals a day, by now you should be up to 50, a couple hours a day adds up. As to why they want to go that far, challenge, and mistlock instabilities provide different experiences.

In WvW, when skills/strats are close 10% will lead to a loss more times than not, and btw between full exotic and full ascended you are looking at 10% or more difference depending on your stats/build.

If you are speed running, you need the best gear possible. People compete for top times and fastest completions. Do you really think your gear is irrelevent?

Stark.1350:

Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

for challenge?

Stark.1350:

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

it is more than just 5%…. 5% mantra is a lie. And of course it matters. Every advantage in PvP matters. I bet he is not talking about zerg vs zerg but 1v1 or 1v2+ while roaming. An upleveled player will always loose against player with better gear and equal skill. It is simple math. If I hit you for 150 and you have 500hp and you hit me for 200 and I will have only 350hp I will die no matter what every time. Pls stop with gear doesnt matter bs.

Stark.1350:

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Som ppl are doing speed clears of Arrah which is arguably the only somewhat hard dungeon (+ higher level fractals) in this game because it is the only PvE challenge in this game. Beating record time of their last fastest run or even competing with other groups is pretty much the only PvE “end game” this game can offer (arguably ofc). Once you get enough skill to beat any PvE content (in any mmo), the only limiting factor of your own personal perforamce will be your gear.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

for challenge?

Stark.1350:

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

it is more than just 5%…. 5% mantra is a lie. And of course it matters. Every advantage in PvP matters. I bet he is not talking about zerg vs zerg but 1v1 or 1v2+ while roaming. An upleveled player will always loose against player with better gear and equal skill. It is simple math. If I hit you for 150 and you have 500hp and you hit me for 200 and I will have only 350hp I will die no matter what every time. Pls stop with gear doesnt matter bs.

Stark.1350:

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Som ppl are doing speed clears of Arrah which is arguably the only somewhat hard dungeon (+ higher level fractals) in this game because it is the only PvE challenge in this game. Beating record time of their last fastest run or even competing with other groups is pretty much the only PvE “end game” this game can offer (arguably ofc). Once you get enough skill to beat any PvE content (in any mmo), the only limiting factor of your own personal perforamce will be your gear.

Because I can imagine a casual player who only has that amount of time to invest, is actually doing any of those things. Give me a freaking break.

FYI, I’m right about 5%.

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/12/gw2-ascended-armor-stats/

IndigoSundown.5419:

Devata.6589:

The exact interpretation and how people feel it is subjective, that does not mean there is no general meaning for the word.

If you’re going to insist on using the word grind, and you’re going to insist on a definition, you should use ANet’s. After all, the thread topic was their philosophy.

The thread moved on after Colins statement. Besides again (so this is why I am repeating) the grind I talk about still is correct even following Colins statement about grind

There are certainly optional activities in the game players can embark on that I think we’d openly accept fall into the category of our definition of more “grindy”. Earning certain unique skins, and in particular some titles absolutely qualify as things we’d put on this list. Legendary weapons have components to them that fall into this category

The thread was about there being so much grind in this game while Anet talked about the “No grind philosophy” and thats for a big part because these types of grind that Anet does not try to remove with there no grind philosophy.

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.

So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.

If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.

You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.

Stark.1350:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

for challenge?

Stark.1350:

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

it is more than just 5%…. 5% mantra is a lie. And of course it matters. Every advantage in PvP matters. I bet he is not talking about zerg vs zerg but 1v1 or 1v2+ while roaming. An upleveled player will always loose against player with better gear and equal skill. It is simple math. If I hit you for 150 and you have 500hp and you hit me for 200 and I will have only 350hp I will die no matter what every time. Pls stop with gear doesnt matter bs.

Stark.1350:

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Som ppl are doing speed clears of Arrah which is arguably the only somewhat hard dungeon (+ higher level fractals) in this game because it is the only PvE challenge in this game. Beating record time of their last fastest run or even competing with other groups is pretty much the only PvE “end game” this game can offer (arguably ofc). Once you get enough skill to beat any PvE content (in any mmo), the only limiting factor of your own personal perforamce will be your gear.

Because I can imagine a casual player who only has that amount of time to invest, is actually doing any of those things. Give me a freaking break.

I know many people who run Arah regularly and even do lvl 50 fractals that only play for a couple hours a day if at all.

That said, they can easily take a night or two off arah/fractals and jump into Silverwastes and gather all their dragonite needed.

The money is a far more limiting factor at this point IMO thanks to the dragonite rain that happens in SW (got 12 ingots in 4 hours the other night just to give an idea)

Jerus.4350:

Stark.1350:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

for challenge?

Stark.1350:

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

it is more than just 5%…. 5% mantra is a lie. And of course it matters. Every advantage in PvP matters. I bet he is not talking about zerg vs zerg but 1v1 or 1v2+ while roaming. An upleveled player will always loose against player with better gear and equal skill. It is simple math. If I hit you for 150 and you have 500hp and you hit me for 200 and I will have only 350hp I will die no matter what every time. Pls stop with gear doesnt matter bs.

Stark.1350:

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Som ppl are doing speed clears of Arrah which is arguably the only somewhat hard dungeon (+ higher level fractals) in this game because it is the only PvE challenge in this game. Beating record time of their last fastest run or even competing with other groups is pretty much the only PvE “end game” this game can offer (arguably ofc). Once you get enough skill to beat any PvE content (in any mmo), the only limiting factor of your own personal perforamce will be your gear.

Because I can imagine a casual player who only has that amount of time to invest, is actually doing any of those things. Give me a freaking break.

I know many people who run Arah regularly and even do lvl 50 fractals that only play for a couple hours a day if at all.

That said, they can easily take a night or two off arah/fractals and jump into Silverwastes and gather all their dragonite needed.

The money is a far more limiting factor at this point IMO thanks to the dragonite rain that happens in SW (got 12 ingots in 4 hours the other night just to give an idea)

So what you’re saying is, someone who played casually had no issue obtaining ascended gear. Right?

Obtena.7952:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.

So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.

If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.

You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.

The complain is:

I like to hunt down items, Currently I can no do that / go directly for them but can only get them by grinding.

It’s not that lengthy is it. And again, thats why people don’t just say ‘remove the grind’ what you seem to apply, but they give a more detailed explanation what they dislike and what they would like.

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.

So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.

If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.

You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.

The complain is:

I like to hunt down items, Currently I can no do that / go directly for them but can only get them by grinding.

It’s not that lengthy is it. And again, thats why people don’t just say ‘remove the grind’ what you seem to apply, but they give a more detailed explanation what they dislike and what they would like.

I say it’s lengthy because changing one doesn’t necessarily affect the other. In fact, it’s so conditional it’s unlikely. Maybe lengthy isn’t the right word here but I think it’s not a stretch to understand that removing grind doesn’t immediately lead to the conclusion we need direct rewards from raids. I believe it naturally leads to the opposite; if you want direct rewarded loot, players are going to have to do repeated content for it. That’s not really accomplishing anything if the goal is to reduce grind.

Obtena.7952:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.

So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.

If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.

You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.

I’ll reiterate here since it’s been awhile. Gear is a grind, no matter how you slice it, it is. BiS even moreso if you want any kind of build diversity. Ascended wasn’t well thought out IMO. Sure the market was once flooded with silk, but not so much now, they over-compensated. Colin admits that ascended was thought up down the road, it also took care of the flood of certain materials, but here we are, with silk (for example) being a premium material. Tack on cosmetics, and it’s pretty hefty cost of playing the game, one which end-game goals sum up with cosmetics. It’s not really hard to understand, they added (or “fixed”) things to be at a premium, which can turn off casual, regular players, no surprise there, least not to me.

Showering players with mostly junk is the current status and at best will net you at least a decent return, if you’re in the market for silk and you mostly run a light armor toon. But, if you have alts and you want to gear them differently, you’re SoL, it’s a grind, and a pretty heavy one too. Making the gear account bound doesn’t really help all that much either, since it’s an inconvenience to switch gear on top of if you want to run a different rune set.

Gold is the gate too, which has been discussed ad naseum, if you want to avoid the time gate and just play now. Yes you can run in exotics, yes they are easier to get, none of which needs to be pigeon-holed into the grind aspect of the discussion, you can play at least 80% of the game in your undies.

I’m totally fine with ascended as a one time thing, but if you want any kind of build diversity, you mine as well pack it up, it’s monotonous farming of the same content over and over to get at the materials you’d need, including dust, fragments and ore. While you might get a ton of the stuff, you need 10 tons.

Obtena.7952:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.

So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.

If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.

You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.

The complain is:

I like to hunt down items, Currently I can no do that / go directly for them but can only get them by grinding.

It’s not that lengthy is it. And again, thats why people don’t just say ‘remove the grind’ what you seem to apply, but they give a more detailed explanation what they dislike and what they would like.

I say it’s lengthy because changing one doesn’t necessarily affect the other. In fact, it’s so conditional it’s unlikely. Maybe lengthy isn’t the right word here but I think it’s not a stretch to understand that removing grind doesn’t immediately lead to the conclusion we need direct rewards from raids. I believe it naturally leads to the opposite; if you want direct rewarded loot, players are going to have to do repeated content for it. That’s not really accomplishing anything if the goal is to reduce grind.

I don’t want to speak for Deveta, but i think you are both on different wavelengths. I think a hunt for things like minis is a good idea, or even stuff like heavy cost forge items (like immobolus). If you just look at one set of ascended gear, sure, it’s actually fine. But, if you look at end game stuff (i.e. achievements for certain looks) you get grind, mostly a gold grind, since the system tends to cater to gold.

One problem with MMOs particularly is getting players to stick around and giving those players goals to work for, but Arena has undeniably given it’s players an excessive amount of “work” to reach those goals, which will certainly be different for everyone. IF you’re happy with slot a, and it fits 90% of your playtime, with skin a and stat a, than you wouldn’t be all that mucked about grind.

Obtena.7952:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

Addressing grind doesn’t ensure you get direct methods to get gear.

So that is why we (I) give a more detailed explanation as ‘there is grind, it should go’. While in all honestly I do not see how they would want to have no grind and not direct ways of getting it. Locking it behind a way to high RNG would create grind again, or at least extreme bad farms that aren’t any better.

If Anet were into drowning people with BiS loot, it would already be happening. Therefore, advocating getting rid of the current approach because it’s grindy, to replace it with something else you like, which will likely be as grindy, is nonsense.

You don’t really get it … if you want to complain about not having direct methods to get loot, tacking that into a ‘OMG game grindy’ thread doesn’t really work. Those aren’t the same issue. I understand the lengthy logic you have to say they are related but fixing one doesn’t guarantee the other because they are not THAT closely related. That’s just wishful thinking.

The complain is:

I like to hunt down items, Currently I can no do that / go directly for them but can only get them by grinding.

It’s not that lengthy is it. And again, thats why people don’t just say ‘remove the grind’ what you seem to apply, but they give a more detailed explanation what they dislike and what they would like.

I say it’s lengthy because changing one doesn’t necessarily affect the other. In fact, it’s so conditional it’s unlikely. Maybe lengthy isn’t the right word here but I think it’s not a stretch to understand that removing grind doesn’t immediately lead to the conclusion we need direct rewards from raids. I believe it naturally leads to the opposite; if you want direct rewarded loot, players are going to have to do repeated content for it. That’s not really accomplishing anything if the goal is to reduce grind.

I am not sure why you keep repeating raids and keep focusing on this element of repeated content. Only part of those ‘direct’ rewards would be the rng ‘repeating’ ones. Other would simply be complete x get y rewards. That does not require any repeating. So players would not always have to be repeating content for it.

That’s part of the problem with your proposal … Complete X to get what … we are talking about Ascended right? I can guarantee you that X won’t be “Do a vista in Queensdale”. Either you complete many different X’s or you complete X many times to get BiS. You’re not proposing to reduce grind at all, just change it’s form.

Obtena.7952:

That’s part of the problem with your proposal … Complete X to get what … we are talking about Ascended right? I can guarantee you that X won’t be “Do a vista in Queensdale”. Either you complete many different X’s or you complete X many times to get BiS. You’re not proposing to reduce grind at all, just change it’s form.

I think you seem to think they are talking about completing x 40 times. You have to admit at least achievements that reward ascended stuff is a bit off par. I think they want to complete r-y to get at z. I don’t find that proposal all that complicated.

Obtena.7952:

That’s part of the problem with your proposal … Complete X to get what … we are talking about Ascended right? I can guarantee you that X won’t be “Do a vista in Queensdale”. Either you complete many different X’s or you complete X many times to get BiS. You’re not proposing to reduce grind at all, just change it’s form.

No personally I am talking about many different interesting and / or fun rewards. Skins, toys, finishers, mini’s, crafting recipe’s and so on. But for other people that might be ascended gear I guess. Not something I really care about that much, for me that would at best be a nice to have for WvW so at least I know I am not in a disadvantage. But it’s not the type of stuff that drives me.

(x could be multiple things.. like a quest-chain but also one thing like kill a specific boss. But it’s one clear path to come to your goal / reward.)

OK, but like I said, Anet’s intent isn’t to have many different things fall on us like rain; so whatever you are proposing to HOW you get stuff, it’s not going to be ‘less things’ than we have to do now to get loot which doesn’t change the level of ‘grind’ people are complaining about having to do. Frankly, other than the conceptual difference between getting gold and getting ‘stuff’, you’re not actually proposing anything different than what already exists in the game; we already have choice to doing content that still leads to the reward standard of gold.

Really your hang up here isn’t grind or even how we get stuff, it’s the types of reward we get. Simply not the same thing. Direct rewards is not a solution for grinding, Removing grinding doesn’t lead to direct rewards.

Obtena.7952:

OK, but like I said, Anet’s intent isn’t to have many different things fall on us like rain; so whatever you are proposing to HOW you get stuff, it’s not going to be ‘less things’ than we have to do now to get loot which doesn’t change the level of ‘grind’ people are complaining about having to do. Frankly, other than the conceptual difference between getting gold and getting ‘stuff’, you’re not actually proposing anything different than what already exists in the game; we already have choice to doing content that still leads to the reward standard of gold.

Really your hang up here isn’t grind or even how we get stuff, it’s the types of reward we get. Simply not the same thing. Direct rewards is not a solution for grinding, Removing grinding doesn’t lead to direct rewards.

Pretty much, yes.

Devata’s main problem is how much stuff is either a sellable rare drop from a large part of the world or vendor purchased with tokens. That pushes players toward farming for tokens or gold to exchange for the items rather than farming the items directly from an activity, area, or type of mob. For him, farming tokens and gold, which generally doesn’t meet Anet’s definition of grind, feels more grindy than farming specific mobs directly for drops, which generally does meet Anet’s definition of a grind. Thus, to him, the implementation of Anet’s “no grind philosophy” feels like an even worse “meta grind” of endlessly farming gold or tokens for purchases.

Then truly, Devata’s problem isn’t one that GW2 can solve, at least not to his significant satisfaction. This game is established with a population that plays because of those mechanics, not in spite of them.

Obtena.7952:

Then truly, Devata’s problem isn’t one that GW2 can solve, at least not to his significant satisfaction. This game is established with a population that plays because of those mechanics, not in spite of them.

That is why I commented earlier that the RNG thread had some interesting ideas that might mesh well with his. Tokens and gold currently give players a way to measure partial progress and serve to make things suitably challenging to obtain without subjecting players to the frustration of RNG whimsy.

IMHO, doing this without either making things trivially easy to obtain or returning to traditional grinds requires a smarter RNG system that isn’t purely random.

Stark.1350:

FYI, I’m right about 5%.

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/12/gw2-ascended-armor-stats/

you missed the factor where the effects are multiplied because stats interact.

lets say you want to consider how much damage some one does to you since its based on power weapon strength crit rate and crit damage, having all of these high translates into 10-15% damage depending on the build

lets say you want to consider how hard it is to kill some one
its a function of tougness, armor for damage done, vitality for total damage to a win condition, and healing for how fast they can recover.

so saying 5% more per stat, isnt really the real picture as far as the effective difference in performance.

If you have a car that has 5% more acceralation 5% more top speed 5% better cornering. you have a signifigant advantage in a race.
If you have a team which averages 5% more at the line 5% more feild goals, 5% more blocks 5% more 3 point shots. They are a favorite, and are likely to win.

Stark.1350:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

for challenge?

Stark.1350:

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

it is more than just 5%…. 5% mantra is a lie. And of course it matters. Every advantage in PvP matters. I bet he is not talking about zerg vs zerg but 1v1 or 1v2+ while roaming. An upleveled player will always loose against player with better gear and equal skill. It is simple math. If I hit you for 150 and you have 500hp and you hit me for 200 and I will have only 350hp I will die no matter what every time. Pls stop with gear doesnt matter bs.

Stark.1350:

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Som ppl are doing speed clears of Arrah which is arguably the only somewhat hard dungeon (+ higher level fractals) in this game because it is the only PvE challenge in this game. Beating record time of their last fastest run or even competing with other groups is pretty much the only PvE “end game” this game can offer (arguably ofc). Once you get enough skill to beat any PvE content (in any mmo), the only limiting factor of your own personal perforamce will be your gear.

Because I can imagine a casual player who only has that amount of time to invest, is actually doing any of those things. Give me a freaking break.

you should be able to imagine it, because its pretty common.
there is a great amount of people who only play WvW
I personally know people who spend 90% of their time playing fractals
and there is a dungeon community who basically primarily runs dungeons.

and yeah, when you focus on what you enjoy in a game, you can play for 2 hours and be satisfied.

Stark.1350:

Jerus.4350:

Stark.1350:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

for challenge?

Stark.1350:

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

it is more than just 5%…. 5% mantra is a lie. And of course it matters. Every advantage in PvP matters. I bet he is not talking about zerg vs zerg but 1v1 or 1v2+ while roaming. An upleveled player will always loose against player with better gear and equal skill. It is simple math. If I hit you for 150 and you have 500hp and you hit me for 200 and I will have only 350hp I will die no matter what every time. Pls stop with gear doesnt matter bs.

Stark.1350:

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Som ppl are doing speed clears of Arrah which is arguably the only somewhat hard dungeon (+ higher level fractals) in this game because it is the only PvE challenge in this game. Beating record time of their last fastest run or even competing with other groups is pretty much the only PvE “end game” this game can offer (arguably ofc). Once you get enough skill to beat any PvE content (in any mmo), the only limiting factor of your own personal perforamce will be your gear.

Because I can imagine a casual player who only has that amount of time to invest, is actually doing any of those things. Give me a freaking break.

I know many people who run Arah regularly and even do lvl 50 fractals that only play for a couple hours a day if at all.

That said, they can easily take a night or two off arah/fractals and jump into Silverwastes and gather all their dragonite needed.

The money is a far more limiting factor at this point IMO thanks to the dragonite rain that happens in SW (got 12 ingots in 4 hours the other night just to give an idea)

So what you’re saying is, someone who played casually had no issue obtaining ascended gear. Right?

what he said is dragonite isnt that hard to get. I never said it was. The primary blockers for people getting ascended is getting the gold, or the raw materials to craft, and leveling crafting itself.

phys.7689:

Stark.1350:

FYI, I’m right about 5%.

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/12/gw2-ascended-armor-stats/

you missed the factor where the effects are multiplied because stats interact.

lets say you want to consider how much damage some one does to you since its based on power weapon strength crit rate and crit damage, having all of these high translates into 10-15% damage depending on the build

lets say you want to consider how hard it is to kill some one
its a function of tougness, armor for damage done, vitality for total damage to a win condition, and healing for how fast they can recover.

so saying 5% more per stat, isnt really the real picture as far as the effective difference in performance.

If you have a car that has 5% more acceralation 5% more top speed 5% better cornering. you have a signifigant advantage in a race.
If you have a team which averages 5% more at the line 5% more feild goals, 5% more blocks 5% more 3 point shots. They are a favorite, and are likely to win.

I’ll take dulfy’s word/math over yours any time of the day.

phys.7689:

Stark.1350:

Jerus.4350:

Stark.1350:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

Why do you want to even go that far when fractal weapon skins drop at 20+?

for challenge?

Stark.1350:

WvW is irrelevant. If an uplevel can run successfully in WvW, a 5% increase in stats doesn’t matter.

it is more than just 5%…. 5% mantra is a lie. And of course it matters. Every advantage in PvP matters. I bet he is not talking about zerg vs zerg but 1v1 or 1v2+ while roaming. An upleveled player will always loose against player with better gear and equal skill. It is simple math. If I hit you for 150 and you have 500hp and you hit me for 200 and I will have only 350hp I will die no matter what every time. Pls stop with gear doesnt matter bs.

Stark.1350:

Unless you need Arah tokens, this is an irrelevant argument. And even then you shouldn’t need Ascended for this.

Som ppl are doing speed clears of Arrah which is arguably the only somewhat hard dungeon (+ higher level fractals) in this game because it is the only PvE challenge in this game. Beating record time of their last fastest run or even competing with other groups is pretty much the only PvE “end game” this game can offer (arguably ofc). Once you get enough skill to beat any PvE content (in any mmo), the only limiting factor of your own personal perforamce will be your gear.

Because I can imagine a casual player who only has that amount of time to invest, is actually doing any of those things. Give me a freaking break.

I know many people who run Arah regularly and even do lvl 50 fractals that only play for a couple hours a day if at all.

That said, they can easily take a night or two off arah/fractals and jump into Silverwastes and gather all their dragonite needed.

The money is a far more limiting factor at this point IMO thanks to the dragonite rain that happens in SW (got 12 ingots in 4 hours the other night just to give an idea)

So what you’re saying is, someone who played casually had no issue obtaining ascended gear. Right?

what he said is dragonite isnt that hard to get. I never said it was. The primary blockers for people getting ascended is getting the gold, or the raw materials to craft, and leveling crafting itself.

He’s also saying he has a friend that plays casually. And he managed to obtain ascended. What’s everyone else’s problem?

Devata.6589:

“We agreed some pages back grind is subjective, right? So please, stop and realize what you just said here is that grind”
The exact interpretation and how people feel it is subjective, that does not mean there is no general meaning for the word.

Your problem is how your definition is what you insist is the only one, and it seems to bend a bit so you can shoehorn this “GW2 is grindy” argument into anywhere you can make it fit.

I mean, you actually worked up “because there is some form of grind in GW2, it therefore is grindy”.

If many people say they feel grind that is a problem. Is that way it’s a true issue. Also of other people say they do not feel grind.

Oh? A lot of people say there is a problem with there not being:

Mounts, dueling, open-world PvP, Cantha, Elona, playable tengu, ritualists, dervishes, paragons (lol, just kidding), Cantha, guild halls, alliances, Trahearne’s head on a spike, and also Cantha.

Some of these may be actual issues. Like the lack of Cantha, perhaps.

“I’m watching you play it up with funny arguments” Like what? Only funny argument I did see was ’it’s not grind because you do not need it’ and ’it’s irrelevant because it does not fits Colins definition of grind.’

Really.

Devata.6589:

I am not saying ‘listen to me’, I say, look at what people say on the forums and all I try to provide is some idea’s to think about. Showing at least how I do think about it.

The option to grind does not disappears in my suggestion, it just becomes exactly that.. an option.

And as I do not see a lot of people asking for more grind but I do see many complains about grind you are right.. Bad thought process is bad. and with all we know that would indeed be a bag thought process.

Personally, I find this hilarious. Not from the obvious problem of non-native English, but the idea that the game should be developed from the forums. I mean, if that was the case we’d have to agree mounts are a fantastic idea.

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

No, my hostility such as it is, is reserved for people who argue from positions of logical instability and refuse to see that.

Logical instability meaning you don’t agree with it. I just said funny arguments where the ’it’s only grind if you need it’ and thats funny because it’s a logical instability so maybe your arguments are not so logical? Of course if you follow an not so logical line everything logical seems not logical.

See, here’s the problem. You’re attempting to discard anything I put forward as “you just don’t agree so obviously you’re the illogical one”. I don’t think you’re reading what I write.

You’re also trying to pervert something I said into something I didn’t say. I never actually said “it’s only grind if you need it”. You said I said that. Which tells me you aren’t reading it at all, but instead trying to come up with what it says in a soundbyte so you can discredit that instead of focusing on what I actually say.

Also known as a strawman.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Not a question, but I’ll retort for it anyway. What if that random chance happened to pick an item which is no longer available . . . ?

That would suck, just ask much as is does in GW2 (there are multiple). Also something I did complain about in the temporary content threads we had here as Anet was doing that a lot back then. Luckily we manage to change Anet’s mind on that. While also in those topics people where defending it.

So, what you’re saying is you cannot earn it. Though you argued in favor of earning the bulk of the items, assisted by saying no firm number, which has cosmetic value. But there is this thing which is . . . incredibly awesome looking . . . which is prevented from being acquired anymore. And it’s not the only one.

As for items which are no longer available currently in GW2, I count fairly little to be confirmed “gone for good” unlike this particular item . . . which is definitively no longer available. You might convince GW2 devs to add some of them back . . . but you will never convince Blizzard to restore this . . .

Just for instance.

Or how about one of these . . . yes, I’m sure you can just get one of these off a rack. In game. With no external purchases.

phys.7689:

The primary blockers for people getting ascended is getting the gold, or the raw materials to craft, and leveling crafting itself.

Mostly the craft levels, since you need to hit 475 before you can transform the raw materials into refined ones. You also can’t make any of the equipment until you hit 500. For all these things, it is relatively only viable to level up by making Level 80 Exotics (Pearl weapons, for instance).

Those can get expensive to craft if you’re simply buying the materials, or time-consuming if all you’re doing is farming. Luckily, some options remain open which can shortcut some of the pain of acquisition.

Such as potential ability to make the Exotic inscriptions off sustainable materials such as Charged Quartz and Ambrite. Granted, Charged Quartz remains a time-gate. But it’s not a cost issue more than a time issue.

(Notably, time issues are much more comfortable than cost issues to get stuck by.)

The other other problem with Ascended is how much silk is needed for Damask and Spools of Silk Weaving Thread. Oh yes. Very real, very troublesome, and probably the reason I can make out like a bandit on silk sometimes.

Stark.1350:

He’s also saying he has a friend that plays casually. And he managed to obtain ascended. What’s everyone else’s problem?

We don’t liek the way how it is obtained… grinding gold, grinding materials or p2w and then crafting.

I hate the UI minigame known as crafting, I hate wasting my time by dull grinding of materials or gold. Why can’t I loot ascended gear in higher fractals with decend drop rate? There are like 20 types of gear sets – this alone is crazy RNG to get stats that you want so it won’t be super quick or easy to get so nobody should have problem with this right? Give me BiS gear for playing the game, not UI of trading post and crafting station.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

He’s also saying he has a friend that plays casually. And he managed to obtain ascended. What’s everyone else’s problem?

We don’t liek the way how it is obtained… grinding gold, grinding materials or p2w and then crafting.

P2W again . . . really don’t think that applies here but, if someone feels like dropping the cash then translating it to gold, just for Ascended when Exotic is much easier? And cheaper?

Sure, go ahead.

I hate the UI minigame known as crafting, I hate wasting my time by dull grinding of materials or gold. Why can’t I loot ascended gear in higher fractals with decend drop rate? There are like 20 types of gear sets – this alone is crazy RNG to get stats that you want so it won’t be super quick or easy to get so nobody should have problem with this right? Give me BiS gear for playing the game, not UI of trading post and crafting station.

Eh, I hate the crafting “insert materials, output item” ever since I got to try TerraFirmaCraft. (For all I dislike of that mod, the crafting is something impressive.) Now after FF14, I kinda want designers to think a little better about the crafting other than essentially “vending machine interface”

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

He’s also saying he has a friend that plays casually. And he managed to obtain ascended. What’s everyone else’s problem?

We don’t liek the way how it is obtained… grinding gold, grinding materials or p2w and then crafting.

P2W again . . . really don’t think that applies here but, if someone feels like dropping the cash then translating it to gold, just for Ascended when Exotic is much easier? And cheaper?

Sure, go ahead.

I hate the UI minigame known as crafting, I hate wasting my time by dull grinding of materials or gold. Why can’t I loot ascended gear in higher fractals with decend drop rate? There are like 20 types of gear sets – this alone is crazy RNG to get stats that you want so it won’t be super quick or easy to get so nobody should have problem with this right? Give me BiS gear for playing the game, not UI of trading post and crafting station.

Eh, I hate the crafting “insert materials, output item” ever since I got to try TerraFirmaCraft. (For all I dislike of that mod, the crafting is something impressive.) Now after FF14, I kinda want designers to think a little better about the crafting other than essentially “vending machine interface”

14 craft system is really well done, really enjoy doing it. Its also not necessary at all, which is good for those that dont enjoy it. And yet the items overall still have value.

anyhow i dont think gearing up should have ever REQUIRED crafting, its something some people just dont want to take to that level

phys.7689:

14 craft system is really well done, really enjoy doing it. Its also not necessary at all, which is good for those that dont enjoy it. And yet the items overall still have value.

anyhow i dont think gearing up should have ever REQUIRED crafting, its something some people just dont want to take to that level

I think it was a mistake without something more meaningful than the craft system we have. I mean, in the FF14 craft system I wouldn’t really complain – it’s robust and layered. Possible to make an end-game attempt at crafting feel like actually accomplishing something rather than just getting the pieces and pushing a button.

Similarly, TFC I had the wonderful feeling of making a wrought iron tool one time. It was troublesome, it took two attempts before I got the work right, and I sighed a bit when I realized it had to be practiced. But it was more satisfying than “three ingots plus stick equals pick”.

The crafting in GW2? I don’t appreciate it all that much. It feels like it’s something which could have been done better, or with a bit more of a flair. I like that it’s simple and formulaic – so was the crafting in Ultima Online and I worked the bejeezus out of that. But I just think crafting in GW2 is right now the middle of the pack for the games I’ve played as far as whether I hate it or love it. I’ve seen worse, but I’ve seen better.

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

But at least it’s not worse. And it easily, very easily could have been much worse. Could have been left as “rare drops”, or something from specific Mystic Forge recipes requiring stacks.

[quote=4785001;Tobias Trueflight.8350:
P2W again . . . really don’t think that applies here but, if someone feels like dropping the cash then translating it to gold, just for Ascended when Exotic is much easier? And cheaper?

Sure, go ahead.
[/quote]

Yeah it does I think, I’ve ‘had’ to do this many many times, pretty much once every other crafting profession and…and they still aren’t the max available except 1 and I know for a fact that in order to get the other 8 professions even able to craft ascended gear I’m going to have to open my wallet again! and again!.

And the biggest reason it applies is “LIFE > MOUSE CLICK!”

In fact here is the table;
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Taylor - Light Armor, Bags, Runes (500)*
Jeweler - Rings, Amulets, Earings (23)
———————————————————————————————————————————-
MAP: 99%

Leatherworker - Medium Armor, Inventory Packs, Runes (409)*
Chef - Food Buffs (42)
———————————————————————————————————————————-
MAP: 76%

Armorsmith - Heavy Armor, Inventory Boxes, Runes (434)*
Jeweler - Rings, Amulets, Earings (400)*
———————————————————————————————————————————-
MAP: 62%

Huntsman - Pistols, Rifles, Long Bow, Short Bow, Torches (469)*
Artificer - Sceptors, Tridents, Staffs, Foci (52)
———————————————————————————————————————————-
MAP: 53%

Weaponsmith - Axe, Dagger, Great Sword, Hammer, Mace, Shields (425)
Armorsmith - (not required)
———————————————————————————————————————————-
MAP: 45%

• = used credit card.

And the point? .. does the amount of cash spent = value for money, and it does not considering its a virtual item(s).

Why then spend so much money? because I love the game period no RPG on earth has ever filled that void left by baudur’s gate except this one, so I’m willing to put up with it but that doesn’t mean I think it’s right because it isn’t.

aerial.7021:

Yeah it does I think, I’ve ‘had’ to do this many many times, pretty much once every other crafting profession and…and they still aren’t the max available except 1 and I know for a fact that in order to get the other 8 professions even able to craft ascended gear I’m going to have to open my wallet again! and again!.

And the biggest reason it applies is “LIFE > MOUSE CLICK!”

Yeah, but I found it simpler to “just say no” to RMT, even legalized. It takes some doing, but it’s fairly easy all things considered. Just not quick. And as I stated, I just don’t see there to be a need to rush to it.

In fact, according to many folks, rushing to the top is why Ascended wound up becoming something the developers put effort into in order to appease “content locusts”. Not the theory I’m working under, but there’s only the word of developers to go on. And who should believe them?

And the point? .. does the amount of cash spent = value for money, and it does not considering its a virtual item(s).

Why then spend so much money? because I love the game period no RPG on earth has ever filled that void left by baudur’s gate except this one, so I’m willing to put up with it but that doesn’t mean I think it’s right because it isn’t.

I’m okay with that sentiment. (Minsc & Boo forever, by the way.) That’s honestly why you can do it, aside from of course “if we don’t offer it, they go elsewhere and get their account/CCs nicked by the shady people who run that stuff”. Sometimes the shortcut is simple and as easy as deciding to drop some cash on this instead of something else.

Of course, not everyone has the money to do that. I know I sure don’t have it. That’s one reason I don’t exactly have fond thoughts of how Ascended is handled in the crafting method. Pleased it’s there rather than purely RNG . . . not so pleased it’s a longer road to reach the skill level and then some serious requirements of material.

Though at one point I did figure out it’s easier to do two things with regards to raising Crafting easily. I don’t know how useful it is anymore but Crafting Boosters were invaluable . . . and I wound up with quite a lot back when the old Daily Achievement system would occasionally drop a Gem Store item into the mix. Secondly, Discoveries are preferable to mass production, but a rhythm is preferable to striking randomly. Work on Discoveries for the material-cheap weapons/armor (Horns for Huntsman, Foci for Artificer, Daggers for Weaponsmith, gloves for armor . . .)

. . . man I wish the crafting had been better.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

In fact, according to many folks, rushing to the top is why Ascended wound up becoming something the developers put effort into in order to appease “content locusts”. Not the theory I’m working under, but there’s only the word of developers to go on. And who should believe them?

No absolutely not, I’d believe them if they came and told the truth which would be “we needed more revenue to support the staff and expand for the forthcoming expansion”, that I’d believe.

The reason why I can’t buy anything that they say like the above in-regards to your mention of “content locusts” is because when I look at the forum I’ve never seen an out pouring of human pitchforks at dawn that enacts the changes they’ve made (which appears to be a requirement), an example of this is the gem>gold changes they made where they removed the manual entry button I firmly believe that if it had not been for the publicity ‘outside’ of these hallowed forums that ‘change’ would never have happened.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m okay with that sentiment. (Minsc & Boo forever, by the way.) That’s honestly why you can do it, aside from of course “if we don’t offer it, they go elsewhere and get their account/CCs nicked by the shady people who run that stuff”. Sometimes the shortcut is simple and as easy as deciding to drop some cash on this instead of something else.

Of course, not everyone has the money to do that. I know I sure don’t have it. That’s one reason I don’t exactly have fond thoughts of how Ascended is handled in the crafting method. Pleased it’s there rather than purely RNG . . . not so pleased it’s a longer road to reach the skill level and then some serious requirements of material.

I’m glad you remember Minsc & Boo, I keep look around the Guild Wars world for some soft obscure reference to them or the game.. but that’s getting OT.

I don’t have the cash either I go without instead normally food, I’m of the same opinion at you personally.

RNG sure gets thrown around a lot, I learnt that lesson a long time ago don’t go down paths that are bound by RNG, like keys/chests unless the game gives me one for free I ain’t opening those chests.

Though at one point I did figure out it’s easier to do two things with regards to raising Crafting easily. I don’t know how useful it is anymore but Crafting Boosters were invaluable . . . and I wound up with quite a lot back when the old Daily Achievement system would occasionally drop a Gem Store item into the mix. Secondly, Discoveries are preferable to mass production, but a rhythm is preferable to striking randomly. Work on Discoveries for the material-cheap weapons/armor (Horns for Huntsman, Foci for Artificer, Daggers for Weaponsmith, gloves for armor . . .)

. . . man I wish the crafting had been better.

Crafting Boosters, I don’t even craft anything unless I have one active otherwise it just takes to long I tried grinding out one manually -(never again)-.

It should be better, it should be entirely avoidable by way of a gem store item that would max 1 rank in crafting, honestly I’d like one that maxed them all in one hit but judging by how things work in the gem store, bank tabs and so forth it would be better not to pushes ones failing luck.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

Wasn’t that generally considered to be the whole point of ascended? Give the people who really wanted one a long, slow, stat based grind through ascended, AR, and fractals to chase, while making the payoff at the end minor enough for everyone who doesn’t want the grind to shrug their shoulders and ignore the hamster wheel?

DavidH.7380:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

Wasn’t that generally considered to be the whole point of ascended? Give the people who really wanted one a long, slow, stat based grind through ascended, AR, and fractals to chase, while making the payoff at the end minor enough for everyone who doesn’t want the grind to shrug their shoulders and ignore the hamster wheel?

I dare you, I double dare you, show me a forum page where these people are that wanted this, and almost guarantee you, you won’t find it.

(disclaimer: must be a significant amount of the population to require an addition of said ascended armor)

aerial.7021:

DavidH.7380:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

Wasn’t that generally considered to be the whole point of ascended? Give the people who really wanted one a long, slow, stat based grind through ascended, AR, and fractals to chase, while making the payoff at the end minor enough for everyone who doesn’t want the grind to shrug their shoulders and ignore the hamster wheel?

I dare you, I double dare you, show me a forum page where these people are that wanted this, and almost guarantee you, you won’t find it.

(disclaimer: must be a significant amount of the population to require an addition of said ascended armor)

As the punctuation indicates, it was a question, not a statement. The ascended stuff all happened before my time, and that is the argument I’ve seen most often provided to defend it, which is why I asked the question.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

~

I mean, you actually worked up “because there is some form of grind in GW2, it therefore is grindy”. It;s grindy for the people who run into that grind yes. What seems to be a lot of people considering the game is known for it’s grind.

“Some of these may be actual issues. Like the lack of Cantha, perhaps. "
So the difference between people suggesting / asking for a new type of content is the same as having a problem with current content. Again you logic makes no sense.

“should be developed from the forums. I mean, if that was the case we’d have to agree mounts are a fantastic idea.” Sit I say from the forums? No I diden’t but they sure should listen to feedback. Oow and about those mounts.. The hang glider sure have many simularities with mounts.

“I never actually said “it’s only grind if you need it”." No thats true, not litteraly but you did use the argument to basically act as if the grind wasen’t a problem because of that. What was more my point.

"

Ascended is grindy as heck.
It also is either “not mandatory” or “not BiS if downleveling”. Someone did the math once and showed it might be better to have an Exotic in there instead of Ascended in certain cases.

"

Oow and about the card game. GW2 also has some items only availible other ways. that still does not change the fact that when seeing an item in GW2 it’s most likely not in another way obtainable then by grinding gold while in that other game it most likely is a item you can hunt down.

aerial.7021:

DavidH.7380:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

Wasn’t that generally considered to be the whole point of ascended? Give the people who really wanted one a long, slow, stat based grind through ascended, AR, and fractals to chase, while making the payoff at the end minor enough for everyone who doesn’t want the grind to shrug their shoulders and ignore the hamster wheel?

I dare you, I double dare you, show me a forum page where these people are that wanted this, and almost guarantee you, you won’t find it.

(disclaimer: must be a significant amount of the population to require an addition of said ascended armor)

It’s impossible to find – it was two years ago and I don’t think the topics are still around. So, asking for an impossible thing (which you also know is impossible) doesn’t help your credit

But David is only partly correct – there was a significant amount of people here on the forums who were looking for a more traditional endgame. Same names were cross-referenced with people asking for more traditional experiences as well and that was offered with Fractals and Ascended Rings/Back to cover the need for Agony Resistance at that time. (It was covered, mind you, to the point where it was survivable by skill. People made it to ridiculously high levels of Agony with that “minimal” protection.)

After that, many . . . many people requested they just go ahead and do the full armor/weapon tier. And people asking for crafting to be useful. (Note, not profitable because that was already torpedoed.)

So, really, it was being asked for. But not up front as “we want another tier to grind crafting”.

Much like the second and third revamps to the Daily system was not exactly what people asked for, but it was what we got.

Devata.6589:

“because there is some form of grind in GW2, it therefore is grindy”. It;s grindy for the people who run into that grind yes. What seems to be a lot of people considering the game is known for it’s grind.

It’s also known for Trahearne stealing all the player’s glory, in some circles, which is something which did not happen. It’s known for a broken, broken, broken finale with Zhaitan even though it was broken on release and patched to be playable. It’s known for trying to kill World of Warcraft, even though it was specifically stated that was not the goal at all. It’s known for the “fact” Piken Square and Tarnished Coast are/were dens of debauchery with “RP” in the loosest terms being done in the open with incredibly lurid and graphic descriptions of acts which should not happen in a T rated game.

In other words, it’s known for a lot of things which are not true.

“Some of these may be actual issues. Like the lack of Cantha, perhaps. "
So the difference between people suggesting / asking for a new type of content is the same as having a problem with current content. Again you logic makes no sense.

My sarcasm, you mean. I wonder how you can’t tell the difference between sarcasm and seriousness.

“should be developed from the forums. I mean, if that was the case we’d have to agree mounts are a fantastic idea.” Sit I say from the forums? No I diden’t but they sure should listen to feedback.

Does “listen to feedback” mean “do exactly what that feedback says”? Because that seems to be what you’re equating here.

Oow and about those mounts.. The hang glider sure have many simularities with mounts.

So does the riding broom and the digging tool. In a technical sense. What is your point, exactly?

“I never actually said “it’s only grind if you need it”." No thats true, not litteraly but you did use the argument to basically act as if the grind wasen’t a problem because of that. What was more my point.

I didn’t say it, so I did not use the argument. You made that argument up so you could fight against it rather than what I was saying. And you still are claiming I am holding to a position which I wasn’t doing in the first place while admitting it wasn’t my position.

. . . we talked before about “logical instability”, are you sure you’re on the right side of that line?

"

Ascended is grindy as heck.
It also is either “not mandatory” or “not BiS if downleveling”. Someone did the math once and showed it might be better to have an Exotic in there instead of Ascended in certain cases.

"

Yup, that looks like my post and what I wrote. I didn’t say it wasn’t a grind because it wasn’t mandatory. Thank you for making my point just above, sir/madam.

Oow and about the card game. GW2 also has some items only availible other ways. that still does not change the fact that when seeing an item in GW2 it’s most likely not in another way obtainable then by grinding gold while in that other game it most likely is a item you can hunt down.

It’s most likely something in GW2 which costs less than 100 gold. I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items, do you know what I noticed? It usually falls at under 10 Gold to have many skins except for three groups: those which drop from Champion Bags and are Collectable, skins released with seasonal events . . . and Precursors.

I could, pretty easily, take one month and track down most of those skins with luck of drop rate or actively afford two dozen of the choice items.

The two items I’ve linked in the other game, I . . . can’t just go out and earn. There’s actually a fair amount of purely cosmetic items which aren’t earned any other way. Or through the farm/grind process of finding out where they drop and doing it over and over and over and over again until you get it. (Or buying it off the Auction House.) If this sounds at all familiar to this game as you have described it, stop and think about it a little longer.

aerial.7021:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

In fact, according to many folks, rushing to the top is why Ascended wound up becoming something the developers put effort into in order to appease “content locusts”. Not the theory I’m working under, but there’s only the word of developers to go on. And who should believe them?

No absolutely not, I’d believe them if they came and told the truth which would be “we needed more revenue to support the staff and expand for the forthcoming expansion”, that I’d believe.

But we both know that’s not the truth, so why should we believe them if they lied to satisfy paranoia?

The reason why I can’t buy anything that they say like the above in-regards to your mention of “content locusts” is because when I look at the forum I’ve never seen an out pouring of human pitchforks at dawn that enacts the changes they’ve made (which appears to be a requirement), an example of this is the gem>gold changes they made where they removed the manual entry button I firmly believe that if it had not been for the publicity ‘outside’ of these hallowed forums that ‘change’ would never have happened.

You’re welcome to believe what you want but I’ve seen no less than four times the forum and player populace has forced them to completely change things. Four. Not including the Gem Store.

And there are at least ten other items which were added to the game quietly which were suggested here. Without pitchforks at dawn. So, I’m afraid your conclusion doesn’t hold up with it being solely about the bottom line.

. . . and being truthful, it probably wasn’t solely about the content locusts either. I have my suspicions it was a larger goal to try seeing how badly another tier might be received if it was made with varying methods to acquire rather than RNG love. I suspect it got tied into all the systems it did due to needing it to be put in somehow.

But this is getting off topic, entirely. Let’s just agree they compromised on their position on the “original vision” with Ascended (“Compromised” in this case meaning not gave in, but tried to find a middle ground) and it was a mild failure of implementation.

I don’t have the cash either I go without instead normally food, I’m of the same opinion at you personally.

RNG sure gets thrown around a lot, I learnt that lesson a long time ago don’t go down paths that are bound by RNG, like keys/chests unless the game gives me one for free I ain’t opening those chests.

Eh, I go without “food”. I use quotation marks because I’m relatively sure Orville Reddenbacher doesn’t make food but some space-age food-like substance which happens to taste like caramel-coated popcorn. I choose to say no to that and spend money which would be used on that with Gems.

I also spend money on Gems which would be spent on Magic cards, or specific ones, during times when I don’t really feel like buying a rectangular piece of cardboard for $35.

In short, I have a hobby/junkfood budget. I borrow from that if I want Gems. I think I’ve bought gems on average once every four months, and not in increments greater than $20.

. . . and I spent most of it on things other than Keys. I should go back and count, but I’m pretty sure it’s 1/4 of the gems I spent went into Keys.

Crafting Boosters, I don’t even craft anything unless I have one active otherwise it just takes to long I tried grinding out one manually -(never again)-.

It should be better, it should be entirely avoidable by way of a gem store item that would max 1 rank in crafting, honestly I’d like one that maxed them all in one hit but judging by how things work in the gem store, bank tabs and so forth it would be better not to pushes ones failing luck.

I don’t like the idea of Gem Store being used to advance anything. You mentioned P2W and this smacks of exactly that.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items”

Of course there is the thing that people are usually more interested in the better looking ones and then your 10g idea kinda go’s out of the door.

Not that it really matters, biggest problem was that everything was based on gold in stead of a direct way remember. And even if those items would all be 10 gold (what isn’t the case, whenever I see one I like it usually is well over 100G) the problem would still be there, while maybe less annoying, the hunt for items would still be destroyed and grinding gold would still be the only option to get all of them.

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items”

Of course there is the thing that people are usually more interested in the better looking ones and then your 10g idea kinda go’s out of the door.

Not that it really matters, biggest problem was that everything was based on gold in stead of a direct way remember. And even if those items would all be 10 gold (what isn’t the case, whenever I see one I like it usually is well over 100G) the problem would still be there, while maybe less annoying, the hunt for items would still be destroyed and grinding gold would still be the only option to get all of them.

This is where it gets interesting because all of the best looking skins in game are very inexpensive. Not one of them costs more than 10-20 gold. Most of them cannot be purchased with gold or in the gem shop, they have to be earned by playing specific content such as specific dungeons for specific armor.

Every single 100 gold+ skin in the game is either flat out ugly, tacky, or a joke.

All opinion of course.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items”

Of course there is the thing that people are usually more interested in the better looking ones and then your 10g idea kinda go’s out of the door.

Not that it really matters, biggest problem was that everything was based on gold in stead of a direct way remember. And even if those items would all be 10 gold (what isn’t the case, whenever I see one I like it usually is well over 100G) the problem would still be there, while maybe less annoying, the hunt for items would still be destroyed and grinding gold would still be the only option to get all of them.

This is where it gets interesting because all of the best looking skins in game are very inexpensive. Not one of them costs more than 10-20 gold. Most of them cannot be purchased with gold or in the gem shop, they have to be earned by playing specific content such as specific dungeons for specific armor.

Every single 100 gold+ skin in the game is either flat out ugly, tacky, or a joke.

All opinion of course.

Sure but I have a feeling a lot of people would disagree with you. That is also one of the reasons those skins are expensive.. because people want them. You are lucky if you have a taste for the cheaper skins.

Devata.6589:

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items”

Of course there is the thing that people are usually more interested in the better looking ones and then your 10g idea kinda go’s out of the door.

Not that it really matters, biggest problem was that everything was based on gold in stead of a direct way remember. And even if those items would all be 10 gold (what isn’t the case, whenever I see one I like it usually is well over 100G) the problem would still be there, while maybe less annoying, the hunt for items would still be destroyed and grinding gold would still be the only option to get all of them.

This is where it gets interesting because all of the best looking skins in game are very inexpensive. Not one of them costs more than 10-20 gold. Most of them cannot be purchased with gold or in the gem shop, they have to be earned by playing specific content such as specific dungeons for specific armor.

Every single 100 gold+ skin in the game is either flat out ugly, tacky, or a joke.

All opinion of course.

Sure but I have a feeling a lot of people would disagree with you. That is also one of the reasons those skins are expensive.. because people want them. You are lucky if you have a taste for the cheaper skins.

A lot of people disagreeing with Ashen, or myself, does not mean we are wrong. Especially on a case built on aesthetic appreciation.

If you like, though, I could start a list for you of things I have looked at on the TP and said “sure, that’s something I like” which has been under 10g to purchase. Just for the skin and not the functionality.

Not to mention it is actually cheaper to get my favorite set of armor as it requires Karma, and not Gold. But that would mean you’d have to agree there is a currency other than Gold or Gems in the game, so I won’t talk about those

. . . oops. I did anyway.

Devata.6589:

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items”

Of course there is the thing that people are usually more interested in the better looking ones and then your 10g idea kinda go’s out of the door.

Not that it really matters, biggest problem was that everything was based on gold in stead of a direct way remember. And even if those items would all be 10 gold (what isn’t the case, whenever I see one I like it usually is well over 100G) the problem would still be there, while maybe less annoying, the hunt for items would still be destroyed and grinding gold would still be the only option to get all of them.

This is where it gets interesting because all of the best looking skins in game are very inexpensive. Not one of them costs more than 10-20 gold. Most of them cannot be purchased with gold or in the gem shop, they have to be earned by playing specific content such as specific dungeons for specific armor.

Every single 100 gold+ skin in the game is either flat out ugly, tacky, or a joke.

All opinion of course.

Sure but I have a feeling a lot of people would disagree with you. That is also one of the reasons those skins are expensive.. because people want them. You are lucky if you have a taste for the cheaper skins.

People wanting them doesn’t necessarily mean that people think they are attractive. Perceived rarity or prestige comes into play as well. I owned a lot of skins in GW1 that I disliked simply because it meant that I could say that I owned all of the prestigious skins in the game (except Dryad Bow).

I don’t doubt that a lot of people will disagree with my taste in weapon/armor skins. I know that some agree as well.