Guild Wars 2

Gibson.4036:

Colin Johanson

Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. (2011)

Colin Johanson

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards. (early 2013)

DevonCarver.5370:

It is also the case, that we want people playing all the parts of the game, so there are always going to be optimal ways to get specific rewards and those may not always include WvW. (late 2013)

IMO, “Play How You Want” was officially declared dead by GW2 at the end of 2013. It was obvious long before that ArenaNet doesn’t want you playing how you want. They want you to feel pulled into “all the parts of the game” if you want to get to the rewards.

I agree that they seem to have (to an extent) tossed Colin’s original statements out the door.

I don’t see Devon’s statement as contradictory to “play how you want” though. Of course they want people playing all aspects of the game, thus why the offer ‘optional rewards’ as incentive to play those other aspects (as his statement goes on to say, but you thoroughly ignore). The keyword is optional, you don’t have to do it, unless you want those shinies. And you know what, that’s perfectly fine. You can choose to not do it because that’s not your type of gaming. Not having that shiny is not going to set you back because you made that choice.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gibson.4036:

Colin Johanson

Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. (2011)

Colin Johanson

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards. (early 2013)

DevonCarver.5370:

It is also the case, that we want people playing all the parts of the game, so there are always going to be optimal ways to get specific rewards and those may not always include WvW. (late 2013)

IMO, “Play How You Want” was officially declared dead by GW2 at the end of 2013. It was obvious long before that ArenaNet doesn’t want you playing how you want. They want you to feel pulled into “all the parts of the game” if you want to get to the rewards.

I agree that they seem to have (to an extent) tossed Colin’s original statements out the door.

I don’t see Devon’s statement as contradictory to “play how you want” though. Of course they want people playing all aspects of the game, thus why the offer ‘optional rewards’ as incentive to play those other aspects (as his statement goes on to say, but you thoroughly ignore). The keyword is optional, you don’t have to do it, unless you want those shinies. And you know what, that’s perfectly fine. You can choose to not do it because that’s not your type of gaming. Not having that shiny is not going to set you back because you made that choice.

Rewards are not optional, they are matter of fact in a video game, when it comes with fun content that is the actual reward. Most people seem to enjoy Teq/Wurm/Marionette for at least the challenge of it, even if the end items aren’t all that stellar.

You can also choose not to play the game at all, which i tend to think a lot of people are headed. No amount of easily attainable rewards is going to change that.

munkiman.3068:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gibson.4036:

Colin Johanson

Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. (2011)

Colin Johanson

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards. (early 2013)

DevonCarver.5370:

It is also the case, that we want people playing all the parts of the game, so there are always going to be optimal ways to get specific rewards and those may not always include WvW. (late 2013)

IMO, “Play How You Want” was officially declared dead by GW2 at the end of 2013. It was obvious long before that ArenaNet doesn’t want you playing how you want. They want you to feel pulled into “all the parts of the game” if you want to get to the rewards.

I agree that they seem to have (to an extent) tossed Colin’s original statements out the door.

I don’t see Devon’s statement as contradictory to “play how you want” though. Of course they want people playing all aspects of the game, thus why the offer ‘optional rewards’ as incentive to play those other aspects (as his statement goes on to say, but you thoroughly ignore). The keyword is optional, you don’t have to do it, unless you want those shinies. And you know what, that’s perfectly fine. You can choose to not do it because that’s not your type of gaming. Not having that shiny is not going to set you back because you made that choice.

Rewards are not optional, they are matter of fact in a video game, when it comes with fun content that is the actual reward. Most people seem to enjoy Teq/Wurm/Marionette for at least the challenge of it, even if the end items aren’t all that stellar.

You can also choose not to play the game at all, which i tend to think a lot of people are headed. No amount of easily attainable rewards is going to change that.

You get rewards for what you opt to play. It’s not like if you opt to play pve you don’t get any rewards. Rewards only exist if you opt to play wvw or whatever. It’s more wvw offers different rewards as incentive to play that mode. There is nothing wrong with that.

One important thing of note.

“Play how you want” is not equivalent to “Do whatever you want and still get all the rewards”.
This is equivalent to when people “call out” ANet for it not being PHYW when their random spec is terrible. Because “Play how you want” != “Be effective independent of what you do”.

Then again I’m talking to a wall here because the most cursory glance back in beta would have told you how the devs understand “Play how you want”. And if you bought the game without even taking a short look then you really ought to re-evaluate your approach to gaming and stop buying every new copy of AC and Fifa while you’re at it, only to then complain how bad they are.

I have not been able to play “how I want” in a while, the OP made some very good points.

+1 to the OP, I agree with EVERYTHING your saying. ArenaNet, Please read and listen! This game has Lots of potential. Please listen to your players.

Carighan.6758:

“Play how you want” is not equivalent to “Do whatever you want and still get all the rewards”.

That’s on a vertical scale. How about a horizontal (timeline) one, which is the concern of this topic?

“Play how you want, with rewards” yesterday is not equivalent to “Play how you want, without rewards from yesterday” today.

What about “the most powerful rewards” in the form of enjoyment from the game, the feeling of freedom, the feeling of being emotionally attached to a world which, unlike real world, has very little restrictions here and there?

This enjoyment is fading away as more and more restrictions are placed – those which want to “streamline” (official), or “pigeonhole” (unofficial) the player’s experience.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Carighan.6758:

“Play how you want” is not equivalent to “Do whatever you want and still get all the rewards”.

That’s on a vertical scale. How about a horizontal (timeline) one, which is the concern of this topic?

“Play how you want, with rewards” yesterday is not equivalent to “Play how you want, without rewards from yesterday” today.

What about “the most powerful rewards” in the form of enjoyment from the game, the feeling of freedom, the feeling of being emotionally attached to a world which, unlike real world, has very little restrictions here and there?

This enjoyment is fading away as more and more restrictions are placed – those which want to “streamline” (official), or “pigeonhole” (unofficial) the player’s experience.

I will put it this way. Anet simply realized that the majority of their playerbase are casual players who, in many cases, have issues exploring the entire game. What happens next is a change of ideology. Why bother with the content for people who are mostly vets when the majority of their playerbase is consisted of newer players? The content Anet is doing is to get as much profit as possible from this majority. If you disagree that they are a majority then I do honestly believe you should talk with the company and teach them how to get money. Otherwise, I do believe that we agree that GW2 is a popular title, with a huge fanbase. And if a change in ideology is going to get more profit, they would probably do it.

You can still play how you want in this game. Some people are just taking the “play how I want” statement originally made and blowing it out into something that was not the intention.

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

Carighan.6758:

“Play how you want” is not equivalent to “Do whatever you want and still get all the rewards”.
This is equivalent to when people “call out” ANet for it not being PHYW when their random spec is terrible. Because “Play how you want” != “Be effective independent of what you do”.

so much this

You can play how you want, to level up, and to get the best statistical gear you want. Exactly like you could in GW1.

If you want to get certain skins, then you are going to have to go out of your way to a point.

For instance, if you wanted Twilight. You are going to be farming Ascalonian Catacombs quite a bit. If you wanted an Orrian weapon skin, you’re going to be farming Gates of Arah quite a bit.

You have to go out of your way for some rewards that you want. Just like in GW1.

There are other options however, you can go out and play whatever you kitten feel like, earn gold, and buy it off the TP.

If you want Zenith, Pinnacle, Hellfire, and Valiant skins, and all those chest rewards that come with it through AP. You’re going to have to go out of your way to get the better reward.

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

“But I want it now!”
“I should not have to grind to get what I want!”

The point being that certain players pigeon-hole themselves to only certain content and then are upset when they are not rewarded like those that are willing to experience all content.

One step forward and two steps back is true.

The Game Before

Two Greens and a Blue

The Game Now

Two Blues and a Green

The proof is irrefutable.

nGumball.1283:

I will put it this way. Anet simply realized that the majority of their playerbase are casual players who, in many cases, have issues exploring the entire game. What happens next is a change of ideology. Why bother with the content for people who are mostly vets when the majority of their playerbase is consisted of newer players? The content Anet is doing is to get as much profit as possible from this majority. If you disagree that they are a majority then I do honestly believe you should talk with the company and teach them how to get money. Otherwise, I do believe that we agree that GW2 is a popular title, with a huge fanbase. And if a change in ideology is going to get more profit, they would probably do it.

I understand that clearly. And the problem is that while ANet is focusing on new players who just migrated from Angry Birds (and never paid there for anything), they’re alienating players who are willing to pay and are used to paying for their entertainment (even a monthly fee).

I also have my understanding why they do that (ehm, because I live in Russia…): getting money today while you’re still working here and jumping from GW2 to some GX2, GY2 or GZ2 once this oasis dries up makes more sense from an individual’s business point of view than developing the Best MMO Of The XXI Century for years. I simply do not approve of it and write about it in this post.

The other part of the problem is that the outcome can (and is) easily predicted, and can be eeeaaasily altered to satisfy both sides! It’s just that the plan doesn’t want to, and is instead intentionally ignoring a part of the community.

Jordo.5913:

Carighan.6758:

“Play how you want” is not equivalent to “Do whatever you want and still get all the rewards”.
This is equivalent to when people “call out” ANet for it not being PHYW when their random spec is terrible. Because “Play how you want” != “Be effective independent of what you do”.

so much this

Jordo.5913:

You have to go out of your way for some rewards that you want. Just like in GW1.

Why did I not have to go out of my way to get the reward yesterday, but have to tomorrow? GJ on missing the point, deliberately or not.

I am quite worried about the current development, too. It is as if they are unable to grant any kind of freedom or other benefit with one hand without taking the essence of it away with the other.

Regarding World Bosses and megaservers they gave us the ability to complete world events at any time of the day because a fixed schedule and megaservers mean there will be plenty of people at every major event.
However, they made this a double-edged sword by not giving us the ability to play in a lesser populated instance if we chose so (or freely choose any available instance). They made each and every world boss a zerg event without removing the anti-zerg measures they implemented earlier, so no champ loot for you if you are no downscaled level 80 or do not bring your best damage build or just have a slow internet connection so that your damage counts last.
Also, they made the homeserver-distinction all but meaningless which brings several drawbacks for WvW (especially WvW-guild recruitment, when your recruiter may well be in a different map instance than the majority of players with the same homeworld) and makes things all kinds okittenward for roleplayers who used to get along quite well with the PvEer population on their homeworld and now have to a) double-check every time that they are on the correct map instance for a given roleplay event and b) live with frequent complaints of players who are not used to others using say- or emote-chat for full sentences for more than 5 minutes at a time.

And regarding skills and traits they gave us greater freedom to adjust our builds at a moment’s notice…
…if we agree to spend truckloads of gold and skill point scrolls or grind the very same parts of the game world with each and every character, often parts that are not that easy to grind on the level you might want to have a given trait to begin with. This problem is most pronounced for professions that are very trait-reliant for their performance. An untraited low-level warrior might still plow through content where an untraited low-level mesmer will only experience pain and frustration.

And with the new changes to the Daily Achievements and seeing how it affects the current festival I am getting more and more doubts if I should continue to invest time in this game when the direction is so clearly against everything GW2 once promised to be. Dailies used to count toward festival meta events, so that an avid player could easily skip festival activities that he did not like. But this Winterday they do not count and we need 11 of 11 available achievements… so have fun grinding the boring bell choir and spending time with strangers in the now random-group-only Toypocalypse while your friends are waiting elsewhere.

GW2 gets more grindy and more “play as we say” with every current update. This is not a good direction.

So true…
You forgot that megaserver killed guild missions
But all in all, every feature patch kill a bit more the fun of this game.

Megaserver were supposed to fill low populated map… But these map have nothing attractive so nobody still goes there.
Megaserver were supposed to be intelligent and ut you with peeps with the same kind of gameplay as you… It’ doesn’t.

I was doing my daily to play a bit of everything everyday. Now I’ve looked at the “rewards” and seen experience crap everywhere. Leveling in this this game is easy as breath. You got experience from killing, exploring, walking, doing event, doing heart, mining, doing dungeon, crafting… Do you seriously think somebody here need experience? Not to mention there are leveling scrolls or books. What the hell do I have to do with this thing I got from the daily.

Actually I feel punished for doing my daily.

I was slowly reducing my playing time because LS2 over exploit everynew map they release. Asking players to farm mindlessly a freeloot map. Overdoing the same thing : “Kill these boss during breach for an RNG chance to get the thing you need” = Hey we are at chapter 7 each boss need to give you 3 item (you can only have one item at a time, you can, and you will, have past item instead of the one you want)

Thanks anet, you’ve bored me.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Jordo.5913:

You have to go out of your way for some rewards that you want. Just like in GW1.

Why did I not have to go out of my way to get the reward yesterday, but have to tomorrow? GJ on missing the point, deliberately or not.

I didn’t miss the point.

I had to go out of my way to get those points. I hate doing fractals and I usually had to go to fractals. I DO NOT gather as I’m roaming around the world. I find that measly copper to not be worth it. I hardly ever salvage, I usually just sell to the TP or to the merchant, even rares because I don’t want RNG to bite me in the kitten and I get zero ectos.

I had to go out of my way before for the 12 AP a day and I have to go out of my way now for 10 AP.

Just because YOU and some other people posting in this forum didn’t feel like they were before, doesn’t mean EVERYONE felt that way

Dadnir.5038:

I was slowly reducing my playing time because LS2 over exploit everynew map they release. Asking players to farm mindlessly a freeloot map. Overdoing the same thing : “Kill these boss during breach for an RNG chance to get the thing you need” = Hey we are at chapter 7 each boss need to give you 3 item (you can only have one item at a time, you can, and you will, have past item instead of the one you want)

Smart players use the specific extractor and are done 1 kill later. But alas, why read?

Dadnir.5038:

I was slowly reducing my playing time because LS2 over exploit everynew map they release. Asking players to farm mindlessly a freeloot map. Overdoing the same thing : “Kill these boss during breach for an RNG chance to get the thing you need” = Hey we are at chapter 7 each boss need to give you 3 item (you can only have one item at a time, you can, and you will, have past item instead of the one you want)

Thanks anet, you’ve bored me.

To be fair. We did ask for armor skins we could work toward and earn and this is still easier than most of the other earned armor in the game.

As soon as I relinquished the mindset that each piece was simply a chapter completion reward, I found that whole breach process more fun.

but generally and for all that negativity. Guild Wars 2(and all of its future series) still is the best game ever made and will continue to be great. just play the game. i mean guys we can’t just play the same style somethings need to change. If nothing will change you will complain boring or this and that. CHANGE people we need that.

Yes, GW2 is still the best MMORPG out there, but if we don’t speak up when it moves in an unwanted direction we might soon say “unfortunately it is still the best game”.

Also, it is a bit strange that some people complain about other people complaining when they are obviously unaffected by the change. If there is a new law forcing everybody to wear green clothes those who wore green anyway will not feel affected in the same way as everybody else, naturally. Likewise, if you chose to go out of your way for 10 or 12 AP before the patch you will not get why other people complain who were content with 5 to 8 AP and the Daily reward they got just while doing any couple of world bosses or a bit of world exploration without having to go out of their way.

Lishtenbird.2814:

WORLD BOSSES

Before:

• Open an online timer for your server, group with like-minded players and do events that you want when you want. Feel yourself as a hero who willingly saves Tyria from daily threats! Feel how the world is living and changing because of you, coordinate with people and announce the next boss you gonna beat!
• Beat a world boss with some 3-5 people next to you at low hours, and feel great because it was challenging and fun! Or do not beat it and understand that your efforts were not enough and you should get better.

Now:

• After the Megaservers improvement, put a list of times for world bosses next to your PC and stop doing whatever you were doing offline to join the boss you want to play. Feel like you’re doing a scheduled task at your job in the office.
• Always be accompanied by a megazerg, tag and spam “111” to win. No need to know the encounter, you won’t see anything because of particle effects and lags.

Your before and after points aren’t logically connected. You honestly just named 2 subjective (“felt like a hero”, “now I feel like its a chore”) statements about World Boss Events before and after the MegaServer update, regardless of if they are logically and factually(!important) connected to the MegaServer change or not. In one sense, arguing that you feel like the world boss events are a chore after the MegaServer update is not a valid or factual critique of the MegaServer update in itself, it’s just a personal change you have felt over time.

munkiman.3068:

When i logged in yesterday to check out the changes i wasn’t really all that impressed. This game continues to dumb itself down, i did a lot of talking to people and they mostly said, if another game came out similar to this one, they wouldn’t bother. The game is heading into a facebook farmville.

All i see them doing these days is getting dedicated players riled up, but they don’t leave, since, well, lets face it, there simply isn’t anything better in the mmorpg world. But i do see most of my friends playing something else over even logging in.

I think the idea of rewards is completely lost on them now. They basically throw out rewards like a river flows water, practically begging people to just log in, but not really addressing core issues why people don’t even want to do that much. I’d spill out all the feedback again, but it’s literally pointless. I tend to agree with most of the OP.

Just a few things. It would be awesome for the game to go the direction farmville. $600,000,000.00 annual income and over 252,000,000 players. Just sayin…
(http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/companies/zynga-net-worth/)

You say they throw out rewards. Part of that has been asked time and time again by the community. (At least on the forums). Every second day is another thread of how content needs to be more rewarding, how the current reward structures are way off balance, and how doing X content needs to give more and better rewards. The problem is though, what do they give as rewards? More gold? More loot? Better loot? What defines “better loot” when much of the player base already has Ascended, and almost everyone has exotic? You’ve already reached the top tiers of gear available, add in any more then it become verticle progression. Even now there are tons of people who are upset with Ascended, adding more would be a terrible idea.

So what do they do? The answer the call and provide even more rewards because thats what the forum community is crying for. And what does the community do? “There STILL not enough rewards in the game! I have to log in and get rewarded, if I decide to play the game I get rewarded again! This is crap! We need more rewards!!! GG Anet!!”

Edit: I am not sure when those figues were posted, but a more recent look at their revenue and income can be seen here: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AMDA-KX1KB/3737240017x0x792615/A7764C7F-0DF6-4160-890D-5D0F05EB060D/Zynga%20Q3'14%20Earings%20Slides.pdf

In short, Zynga is actually not doing terribly and still maintains a large player base.

Sparks The Rescue.5043:

Your before and after points aren’t logically connected. You honestly just named 2 subjective (“felt like a hero”, “now I feel like its a chore”) statements about World Boss Events before and after the MegaServer update, regardless of if they are logically and factually(!!) connected to the MegaServer change or not. In one sense, arguing that you feel like the world boss events are a chore after the MegaServer update is not a valid or factual critique of the MegaServer update in itself, it’s just a personal change you have felt over time. There’s a popular saying that correlation does not imply causation.

Your “after” points are not a direct cause from the change, nor are your “before” points in existence solely because of the absence of the change. It’s hard for me to read your thread and agree with you when there are no logical connections being made between your before and after points.

Your words sound nice and all, but I’ve read the hundreds of posts from the Megaserver megathread and these feelings are exactly what was conveyed there. A “scheduled task” is not necessarily a chore if you have an option not to do it; it’s just a task you can only do on a schedule when you don’t want to (like, say, a cinema movie shown only at 2am Monday).

World Bosses were my favourite pastime prior to the Megaserver update; I did a lot of them everyday, it was fun and sometimes challenging, but it was non-repetitive and different every evening. I tried doing WB again after the update, but those were ruined for me; the same events every evening when I have time to log in, zergs everywhere with no views or specific players to enjoy, bosses which melt in seconds and even no credits for events. I tried doing Taidha with a guildie a couple of weeks ago since he wanted to finish it anyway – and I can say that from a challenging experience it turned into a long, boring spam and lagfest.

So whatever rules of logic you apply, the fact is a fact: the experience changed dramatically, and for many people to the extent of ruining their beloved content.

Here’s what it boils down to for me: Before April’s feature patch, I played how I wanted and got stuff I wanted for it. After April’s feature patch, I could do some of the play how I wanted stuff that I could do before, and I could do some new stuff that I couldn’t do before, but my personal favorite part was deeply affected. Then the September patch made the thing I used to enjoy the most even less fun.

So, I don’t want to fly, or have precursors rain down from the sky, or wear capes or any of the other straw man arguments that are being constructed. The point is that the game is moving away from a design philosophy that clearly allowed people more choice and freedom than the present system encourages.

pdavis.8031:

Just a few things. It would be awesome for the game to go the direction farmville. $600,000,000.00 annual income and over 252,000,000 players. Just sayin…

Your standards for awesome are definitely different from mine. If you look at Farmville’s “gameplay” you will notice that it barely qualifies as a game. It (and other “games” that are distributed mostly via social media and/or mobile app stores) is a tool for procrastination that you use rather than do your work at the office or your chores at home or a slightly better alternative to talking to other people on the same bus or train you are currently riding.
The generated income and the number of players are much less a sign of quality than a symptom of people’s behavioural patterns.

When I sit down in front of my PC to play a game I do not want to procrastinate and I do not have people that I need to avoid eye contact with either. I want my dose of fun, and recently I find that I get less when I only go for fun and that I get rewards more and more exclusively for grindy or at least unnecessarily out-of-the-way activities.

Locce.8405:

pdavis.8031:

Just a few things. It would be awesome for the game to go the direction farmville. $600,000,000.00 annual income and over 252,000,000 players. Just sayin…

Your standards for awesome are definitely different from mine. If you look at Farmville’s “gameplay” you will notice that it barely qualifies as a game. It (and other “games” that are distributed mostly via social media and/or mobile app stores) is a tool for procrastination that you use rather than do your work at the office or your chores at home or a slightly better alternative to talking to other people on the same bus or train you are currently riding.
The generated income and the number of players are much less a sign of quality than a symptom of people’s behavioural patterns.

When I sit down in front of my PC to play a game I do not want to procrastinate and I do not have people that I need to avoid eye contact with either. I want my dose of fun, and recently I find that I get less when I only go for fun and that I get rewards more and more exclusively for grindy or at least unnecessarily out-of-the-way activities.

There are a lot of assumptions in this post. From “avoiding eye contact” to “procrastination.” Such a shame.

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Toroxus.9256:

Locce.8405:

pdavis.8031:

Just a few things. It would be awesome for the game to go the direction farmville. $600,000,000.00 annual income and over 252,000,000 players. Just sayin…

Your standards for awesome are definitely different from mine. If you look at Farmville’s “gameplay” you will notice that it barely qualifies as a game. It (and other “games” that are distributed mostly via social media and/or mobile app stores) is a tool for procrastination that you use rather than do your work at the office or your chores at home or a slightly better alternative to talking to other people on the same bus or train you are currently riding.
The generated income and the number of players are much less a sign of quality than a symptom of people’s behavioural patterns.

When I sit down in front of my PC to play a game I do not want to procrastinate and I do not have people that I need to avoid eye contact with either. I want my dose of fun, and recently I find that I get less when I only go for fun and that I get rewards more and more exclusively for grindy or at least unnecessarily out-of-the-way activities.

There are a lot of assumptions in this post. From “avoiding eye contact” to “procrastination.” Such a shame.

Those are not assumptions, least of all shameful ones. If you are interested in the subject feel free to PN me and I will provide you with a bit of additional explanation and links regarding the science behind social media / mobile “games” and why the quotation marks are more than justified.

Filaha.1678:

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Must be a hack…apparently no one can “play how they want” anymore…

I’m glad you’ve at least learned to not talk about combat mechanics.

I dont get it. You can still play whatever content you like at whatever time you like. The game doesnt lock out specific areas until you complete dailies.

The only time in game you are forced to play something is the 5 minutes of the first story step on making a new character, and it probably took way longer than that to make this thread

If by “play how I want” means “play how I want and get all the specific rewards I want”, then this thread makes sense, but that has never been how this game was advertised or run

Might i suggest starting a private server on minecraft or something similar? That way you can set it up to give you the rewards you want for playing how you want.

pdavis.8031:

Filaha.1678:

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Must be a hack…apparently no one can “play how they want” anymore…

Shhhh. Don’t tell anyone that I’m using the “Play how you want” hack! Other people might start wanting to find out how to play how they want, then they might patch it out!

Sizer.5632:

If by “play how I want” means “play how I want and get all the specific rewards I want”, then this thread makes sense, but that has never been how this game was advertised or run

Actually, this thread would make even less sense because I’m 99.9% sure I couldn’t get dungeon skins without running dungeons (or PVP), so that scenario clearly would never have existed for it to be possible for it to be “gone”.

Filaha.1678:

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Well, we can take things most literally all day and conclude that you will find hardly anybody who is forced to play this game at all, or we could use given examples to find out what people mean when they say “forced”.
Technically, you can do all the things you used to, it is just so that you get either less reward for doing so (see: new Dailies) or you have to pay more for being able to do so (see: new Trait unlocking) unless you complete the specific tasks the game tells you to, even if those things are less than desirable for you and/or others (for example joining WvW with a low level char to unlock Traits).

I +1’d you. It’s been a slow, 2 year process but yes, the frog is now boiled. Play as you want as long as you play as we want you to play.

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Well, we can take things most literally all day and conclude that you will hardly anybody who is forced to play this game at all, or we could use given examples to find out what people mean when they say “forced”.
Technically, you can do all the things you used to, it is just so that you get either less reward for doing so (see: new Dailies) or you have to pay more for being able to do so (see: new Trait unlocking) unless you complete the specific tasks the game tells you to, even if those things are less than desirable for you and/or others (for example joining WvW with a low level char to unlock Traits).

So far it’s taken me maybe 5 minutes a day to get my 3 dailies done. I ended up with 10 achievement points that day plus the rewards for doing those dailies. I then went on to do exactly what I wanted to do, which resulted in getting more dailies done (WvW) which got me even more rewards. Comparatively, it took me around an hour to get 10 achievement points’ worth of dailies if I didn’t specifically go out of my way to get them.

So I got more rewards and could more quickly get back to doing what I wanted to do for maybe 5 minutes of not doing what I wanted to do. Today’s was even easier because it’s like a minute to WP to some trees and a vista.

Also, if I hadn’t done the PVE ones, I still would have easily gotten my 3 dailies from WvW alone, which means my 10 AP for 3 dailies and the extra rewards per daily. So still doing it faster, doing what I want to do, and getting more rewards for it.

Traits aren’t inherent to “playing how you want to”, though, so…

Filaha.1678:

pdavis.8031:

Filaha.1678:

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Must be a hack…apparently no one can “play how they want” anymore…

Shhhh. Don’t tell anyone that I’m using the “Play how you want” hack! Other people might start wanting to find out how to play how they want, then they might patch it out!

Oh right!! My bad!!

Although I haven’t had a chance to log in and check out the new daily system for myself. Just reading the patch notes doesn’t give me any sense of not being able to do certain things, or being forced to do certain things.

I am a frequenter of these forums. I see the same type of thread for each and every patch. Even on bug fix updates. Something was changed/updated/fixed/etc. and yet there will ALWAYS be a group of people that swear that this will break the game, that it will make it more difficult to do anything, and is a terrible direction for the game to go. As someone said earlier we don’t know what the whole picture is, what Anets goals and vision for the game is. The manifesto is quoted (way out of context BTW) as proof that this game is moving in direction that isn’t consistant with what the devs have in mind.

People in general fear change. History has shown time and again that younger generations are more likely to accept and embrace change than older generations. In this game, it’s the vets who are most resistant and more likely to complain about changes then a new player. Change means progress. If you don’t adapt, and change the way the game is played there can be no progress. People are already complaining about the game being stale. If Anet didn’t ever change anything, then the game couldn’t progress and get better. Does Anet make mistakes? Of course. But they DO learn from them and do it better the next time around. (Living story season 1 vs season 2 anyone?)

This change only changes a few minor things I will need to do in order to get the AP. It’s not going to completely change the way I play the game, the way I approach doing certain things, or have to radically alter anything about my preferred play style. You eather adapt and move on, or find yourself quickly becoming irrelevant. I for one don’t want to be phased out, so I will adapt and move on. The game is still fun, and I still enjoy it, and will continue to do so for years to come.

1. World Bosses: 0
Not such an issue for me. Set times makes it easier to coordinate. I’m sorry you can’t choose to play against a boss on your own really now, but I’m willing to take that if it’s the price for megaservers. World Bosses aren’t something I care THAT much about.
2. Home Worlds vs. Megaservers: +1
Love Megaservers. PvE feels alive, even during “off” times, in which I sometimes play. Major thumbs up.
3. Unlocking Traits: -1
Major fail with this one. The idea had potential: do stuff to learn your new skill! Except it wasn’t “beat this Flame Shaman Boss to learn this Guardian Trait dealing with Burning”. Nope. “Complete this map. Killed all the time in WvW? Too bad. You’re doing this for the n-th time on your new character because we were lazy and made them all the same? Sucks for you.”
4. Unlocking Skills: -1
Completely agree with the OP’s assessment. Nothing much to add here. New “unlock skill #n at level x” makes it feel like every other kittening “railroaded classes” MMO.
5. Personal Story: 0
I like how they deliver it in chunks. One thing that sort of “got to” me before was how I’d do one bit of the personal story, not be powerful enough for the next instance, go level up and lose the immersion in the personal story, then go back… rinse and repeat. Chunk delivery: yes. Level-gating: no. I’m all for choice. —Oh, and while you’re at it, can we make the personal story instances repeatable, please? No achis needed, but as a lore geek if I want to go back and look at something I don’t want to have to make a new character just to go through it again. The infrastructure is there.
6. Exploration: +1
OP, there’s the option to TURN OFF THE ARROW in case you didn’t notice. I did that. For newbies who want/need it, the arrow is good. I remember wandering around kinda lost my first few days here.
7. Dailies: -1
Agree with the OP here. Not much more to say. Maybe sounds strange that I didn’t like going too much out of my way to get the dailies, and the re-structuring seems weird. I guess I like my rewards not too hard but not given away for free?

…my 2 cents (or 7). salutes
But overall I do feel that the direction they’re headed is… somewhat away from the game I got to know and love a year ago. Changes have been some good , some bad. I’ll see. It feels like they’re trying to make it more “mainstream” or something, though, which is… WHY? You’re already successful! You don’t want to just keep on making a good thing? (Yeah, yeah, I know, they’re also businessmen…)

kuittaa.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

“I want to get a legendary by just farming Queensdale. Anet will not allow me to do this. How dare they not let me play how I want.”

But getting legendary by just farming Queensdale is possible. Might take a while though.

But thanks to RNG it could also happen on the first day in the first 5 mins.

pdavis.8031:

Filaha.1678:

pdavis.8031:

Filaha.1678:

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Must be a hack…apparently no one can “play how they want” anymore…

Shhhh. Don’t tell anyone that I’m using the “Play how you want” hack! Other people might start wanting to find out how to play how they want, then they might patch it out!

Oh right!! My bad!!

Although I haven’t had a chance to log in and check out the new daily system for myself. Just reading the patch notes doesn’t give me any sense of not being able to do certain things, or being forced to do certain things.

I am a frequenter of these forums. I see the same type of thread for each and every patch. Even on bug fix updates. Something was changed/updated/fixed/etc. and yet there will ALWAYS be a group of people that swear that this will break the game, that it will make it more difficult to do anything, and is a terrible direction for the game to go. As someone said earlier we don’t know what the whole picture is, what Anets goals and vision for the game is. The manifesto is quoted (way out of context BTW) as proof that this game is moving in direction that isn’t consistant with what the devs have in mind.

People in general fear change. History has shown time and again that younger generations are more likely to accept and embrace change than older generations. In this game, it’s the vets who are most resistant and more likely to complain about changes then a new player. Change means progress. If you don’t adapt, and change the way the game is played there can be no progress. People are already complaining about the game being stale. If Anet didn’t ever change anything, then the game couldn’t progress and get better. Does Anet make mistakes? Of course. But they DO learn from them and do it better the next time around. (Living story season 1 vs season 2 anyone?)

This change only changes a few minor things I will need to do in order to get the AP. It’s not going to completely change the way I play the game, the way I approach doing certain things, or have to radically alter anything about my preferred play style. You eather adapt and move on, or find yourself quickly becoming irrelevant. I for one don’t want to be phased out, so I will adapt and move on. The game is still fun, and I still enjoy it, and will continue to do so for years to come.

Did you read the OP? This thread is not specific to the new daily system, so why are you responding as if it is?

DarkWasp.7291:

Lemme do a quick rundown of the things I personally agree/disagree with.

1. World Bosses, I prefer them the way they are now
2. Home Worlds, I don’t touch WvW much so I can’t comment here. I do like having people around to do events
3. Unlocking Traits, I agree with this one. I thought the point of leveling was to learn you class/build. Right now leveling just delays us from using our class.
4. Unlocking Skills, Honestly I think the new system might have some merits for actual new players. HOWEVER, I don’t see why it isn’t bypassed entirely when making alts.
5. Personal Story, I can’t really speak to this one as I almost always quit PS right before or after Claw Island.
6. Exploration, Yeah. If people can’t figure out how to feed a cow then I think GW2 is a bit above their level. I like the event tracker though.
7. Dailies, Still testing it. However I find it funny that they bother to have a cap at all. It would take 1500 daily completions to reach the daily AP cap of 15,000 from 0. Everyone who got comfortable when the cap was introduced and reduced their dailies to 5/6 a day is kicking themselves right now. The rewards were supposed to motivate us to do these things, but for a guy with 4mil karma and 8 level 80s, eh not really.

You also forgot:

8. Outfits, The ability to wear them in combat is neat and I feel they are being used way more now. However, town clothes and mixing and matching bit the dust and many of the best skins have been converted to inflexible and undyeable tonics. Furthermore, with the introduction of outfits, it’s getting harder and harder to go back to mix’n’matchable armor as there is a noticeable gap in graphical quality.

If that helps at all.

Now this person I actually agree with.

Guhracie.3419:

pdavis.8031:

Filaha.1678:

pdavis.8031:

Filaha.1678:

I must be mysteriously logging into an old version of the game then, because I’m still playing how I want ankitten ot being forced to do anything I don’t want to.

Must be a hack…apparently no one can “play how they want” anymore…

Shhhh. Don’t tell anyone that I’m using the “Play how you want” hack! Other people might start wanting to find out how to play how they want, then they might patch it out!

Oh right!! My bad!!

Although I haven’t had a chance to log in and check out the new daily system for myself. Just reading the patch notes doesn’t give me any sense of not being able to do certain things, or being forced to do certain things.

I am a frequenter of these forums. I see the same type of thread for each and every patch. Even on bug fix updates. Something was changed/updated/fixed/etc. and yet there will ALWAYS be a group of people that swear that this will break the game, that it will make it more difficult to do anything, and is a terrible direction for the game to go. As someone said earlier we don’t know what the whole picture is, what Anets goals and vision for the game is. The manifesto is quoted (way out of context BTW) as proof that this game is moving in direction that isn’t consistant with what the devs have in mind.

People in general fear change. History has shown time and again that younger generations are more likely to accept and embrace change than older generations. In this game, it’s the vets who are most resistant and more likely to complain about changes then a new player. Change means progress. If you don’t adapt, and change the way the game is played there can be no progress. People are already complaining about the game being stale. If Anet didn’t ever change anything, then the game couldn’t progress and get better. Does Anet make mistakes? Of course. But they DO learn from them and do it better the next time around. (Living story season 1 vs season 2 anyone?)

This change only changes a few minor things I will need to do in order to get the AP. It’s not going to completely change the way I play the game, the way I approach doing certain things, or have to radically alter anything about my preferred play style. You eather adapt and move on, or find yourself quickly becoming irrelevant. I for one don’t want to be phased out, so I will adapt and move on. The game is still fun, and I still enjoy it, and will continue to do so for years to come.

Did you read the OP? This thread is not specific to the new daily system, so why are you responding as if it is?

The topic is about the changes made to the game since launch that have affected what people do in the game. Yes I read it. I read it from when it was first started. However, the focus of the conversation has shift to mainly focus on the changes to the new daily system, to which I was responding to in the last paragraph of my post. The main portion of my post is a comment on changes to the game in general, whether it be the new daily system, or the implementation of megaservers. My point remains the same. Change needs to happen, some were good, others not so much. But in any event, you need to learn from the mistakes and adapt to changes as they happen. To do other wise is to be a major discredit to yourself and leave no room for personal growth and improvment leading to stagnation and irrelevance. Not just in game, but in life in general.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Vayne.8563:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Vayne.8563:

Why is it that people who criticize assume they’re right while people who like stuff are wrong? Why isn’t it possible that someone can like a game without being a white knight?

The idea of play how you want has been taken so far out of it’s original context, it’s lost all it’s meaning. Anet was pretty clear on what they meant.

In most games, you level by going quest hub to quest hub and that’s pretty much what you do, until you get to a high enough level to go to the next quest hub, afterwhich you do dungeons then you raid. That’s the PvE experience of most themepark MMOs.

Anet wanted to be different, and this game is different. You can jump into WvW. You can level in Edge of the Mists. You can now level in PvP. You can craft. You can do a bunch of everything. You can never leave Queensdale if you like and still make max level. Hell someone leveled to max in the tutorial.

That’s what Anet meant and it continues to be true to this day.

I think you missed the point. One step forward two steps back.

I didn’t miss the point. Other people in the thread are commenting on play how you want, and I wanted to stop that.

The one step forward two back thing is not fact, it’s opinion. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

Sorry I forgot that you like 90% of anets decisions and you are entitled to your opinion. The title probably is a little misleading. The FACT remains that not just on the forums but in game players have been very unhappy with a lot of the decisions made in the past year.

Yes, I agree in game people have been happy, but its a misleading statement. It’s not about people being unhappy. It’s about people not really knowing the percentage of people unhappy and trying to come and make it sound like most people are. We simply don’t know.

I definitely believe, at least with regards to daily changes, most people aren’t unhappy about it. And I also believe we’d not be hearing these types of complaints if Anet had announced an expansion. People are complaining because they’re disenfranchised generally, even if what they’re complaining about at the time is relatively minor. And these changes…they benefit pretty much everyone who doesn’t care about dailies and many people who do care about dailies.

Vayne.8563:

I definitely believe, at least with regards to daily changes, most people aren’t unhappy about it. And I also believe we’d not be hearing these types of complaints if Anet had announced an expansion. People are complaining because they’re disenfranchised generally, even if what they’re complaining about at the time is relatively minor. And these changes…they benefit pretty much everyone who doesn’t care about dailies and many people who do care about dailies.

Haven’t tried them long enough to form an opinion on this but what makes me unhappy is the fact that this was reworked again for a third time. If the last 2 years of content is anything to go by the development time is a very sparse resource and shouldn’t be used to rework trivial things so many times over while many important items that really require development attention go untouched, I’m looking at you trait system.
I mean who the hell over there is driving these changes because if you ask me they don’t seem to resemble anything the majority of the player base keeps asking for, I defy anyone to point out a thread saying we needed to fix these one more time.
Why are things like these being fumbled about to the point they need to be rehashed so many times, who keeps dropping the ball? The point I’m making is a really don’t care if they are better or not, I would list a dozen more critical things that should be done long prior to this trifecta of dailies and wonder why management isn’t seeing this either. Priorities people please!

Personnally I don’t like the Megaserver. It nearly killed the game for me. It’s not only the world boss disaster, temples are another unsolved area.

Additionally now that I have created a new character and ran it through levels 1-80 I have to say that the trait changes are a complete disaster IMO. Other than the changes to the weapon skill unlock I can live with the rest of the NPE although I see no area in which it is superior to what was in existence before.

Having said that I do no see the problems with the daily changes. You can still go play whatever you want, can’t you? How on earth is it limiting you? I’ve done the daily yesterday and today without even noticing.

BTW: german community manager Ramon Domke posted a few days ago some interesting figures about forum usage: only 8.5% of the players frequent these forums, less than 1% is actively posting. So even if several ppl in this forum are expressing a similar opinion, you still don’t know what 99% of the players think, as they don’t tell you. Of course you can make assumptions, but that’s jsut that: assumptions…

Filaha.1678:

Traits aren’t inherent to “playing how you want to”, though, so…

They are not by your definition. For others they are an important part of just that, if only for the fact that some professions profit hugely from them up to the point that they would not be half as fun without them. And being able to play with 100% of my usual fun is a very integral part of what I would call “Play How I Want”.
See, that is exactly why it is important to talk about stuff in a specific non-generalising way.
The thing is that I have to somewhat agree with you regarding Dailies. If you just want to “get them over with” in order to do what you really want to do afterwards the new system is quicker and better, even more rewarding. But if they were part of the fun you would not have to “get them over with”, you would just incorporate them into something that you already want to do.
If Anet had capped the AP you could get from Dailies at 5 per day hardly anybody would have had to do anything other than just play the game. People just chose to do more for the extra AP.

Old Dailies:
Among others, there were “Daily Gatherer”, “Daily Kills”, “Daily Dodger”, “Daily Reviver”, “Daily Condition Remover” and "Daily Condition Applier.
They were very generic, but in a way that is preferable, because it does not matter what I want to do on that day, and this is a good way of not-mattering: as long as I do something in PvE for a while, be it a couple of world bosses or map exploration or whatever, I will collect these Dailies on the go. I will get my 5+ AP and the Daily rewards.
Similar cases can be made for days when you really wanted to PvP or do some WvW.
You did not even have to take a single step out of your planned schedule for today’s fun to complete the minimum requirements. You just had to be mildly successful at what you did anyway.

New Dailies:
Now the Dailies tell you to go complete events in a specific zone, to defeat a specific world boss or to harvest a specific kind of ressource in a specific region etc.
First of all, this does not achieve anything good. A minor case can be made for world bosses since some players might be surprised that there is a “Shatterer” that can be defeated and that they can earn a special reward for doing so. But logging trees in Kryta instead of, say, the Shiverpeak Mountains? That does not steer me towards new and interesting content at all. It is just specific in order to annoy me, to waste my time before I can do something that I actually want, even if it is not that much time.

The difference might not be “the world is ending”-bad, but for people who used to just incorporate the more convenient Dailies into their fun schedule it is a step in an undesirable direction.

re: Now that I’ve cleared up the misconception, you may want to reevaluate your entire post. – Well, you cherry-picked one thing, put your own spin on it, then sold it as a fact that invalidates the OP’s entire post? And you accused the OP of misconception? You may wish to reevaluate your post.

I think the OP made a clear, concise, well organized, and pleasantly non-ragey post. And I agree with all of it except the part about fractals, because I don’t have enough experience with fractals to judge what the OP says about them.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: Now that I’ve cleared up the misconception, you may want to reevaluate your entire post. – Well, you cherry-picked one thing, put your own spin on it, then sold it as a fact that invalidates the OP’s entire post? And you accused the OP of misconception? You may wish to reevaluate your post.

I think the OP made a clear, concise, well organized, and pleasantly non-ragey post. And I agree with all of it except the part about fractals, because I don’t have enough experience with fractals to judge what the OP says about them.

The entire premise of this thread is based on a flagrant misinterpretation of the quote.

Locce.8405:

Dailies used to count toward festival meta events, so that an avid player could easily skip festival activities that he did not like. But this Winterday they do not count and we need 11 of 11 available achievements…

I just learned about this and I’m pretty shocked. Why this kind of step backwards? I thought the festival worked brilliantly last year. I got a lot of it done with the dailies. Doing things I wanted to do anyway. :/

The lists:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Very_Merry_Wintersday_%28achievements%29