Guild Wars 2

+1

Nicely put and straight to the point. This basically sums up what killed my excitement for this game. I barely log on more than an hour.

The daily change was the last straw for me, before I could get my daily 6-8 Achieve points whenever I felt like, now I can’t get any at all.

Filaha.1678:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I’m sorry but the way you look at things is ridiculous. They gave us “two” options, both are equally bad, both require a lot of grinding(be it gold or monster loot). Giving us a fake way to do things doesn’t exactly count as “playing how you want”.

I look at things objectively. You look at things subjectively. And objectively, you can acquire “the best gear” by playing how you want. If you choose to not do the faster way, that does not negate the fact that you can acquire them through other methods.

Only in theory, practice is different, however.

Just as in theory everyone can win the lottery, but in practice almost noone does.

But okay, let you have your theoretical victory. I will modify that sentence.
The only dependable and practical way of obtaining full set of ascended weapons and armor of desired stats is through crafting. Other ways, while theoretically possible, cannot be depended on, and in practice will not get you what you want.

So, if you want the gear, you have to craft it.

Filaha.1678:

You have the ability to form friendships with anybody you want and play with whoever you want. The game does not need to make that automatic for you.

True, the game does not need (and in fact, can’t) make that automatic for me. But it could try not to hinder me.

Filaha.1678:

If you want to play with a familiar community, have a guild and add people to your friends list. Even with megaservers, you are more likely to be put on a map with someone you have a link to than random people.

long sigh + facepalm A: That’s what the devs said. B: That does not actually work, in my experience and that of all those I have discussed this with. C: I said a community. Not a guild. Before things were killed off by the change, you would -stumble on- RPers on TC or PS. Spontaneity was half of the fun, and the sheer number of RPers in that community was far too many to realistically fit in one guild. Furthermore, see A and B again.

fully agreed I dont know what happened to arenanet, new management perhaps? But theyre really destroying this game while it had (and has) a lot of potential.

My personal experience in this game is that theres a shift from horizontal progression/gameplay to vertical progession/gameplay over the last year.
Every patch things are symplified/narrowed/gated more. (npe/traits/gating of ps/cutting content out of the PS/narrowing achievements). And the new login rewards dont bring people to play more, only to login and logout (good for the metrics/not to retain players).
After the newest Wintersday incarnation (which is ten times the grind then the ones before) i come to the point that it dousn’t feel good anymore, its got a forced feeling over it. I personally have come at the point that i think it will be a good time to stop.

timmyf.1490:

Thaddeus.4891:

How GW2 does? I don’t know. We will need to compare it to other game to really know. But you can’t just assume that the game don’t keep its player base because about 50% of their player only play through the story and dungeon only once. That’s what most ppl do in most of their games.

MMOs, in general, don’t see rising populations over time. But it feels like, with the number of sales we’ve seen especially, ArenaNet is making a strong push to add more players. This is happening because ArenaNet has concluded that the game NEEDS MORE PLAYERS.

I’m not necessarily trying to make a point here, I’m just trying to remind everybody: the NPE, the new dailies, the log on rewards, the Living Story… the entire point of these things is to encourage players to keep the game installed and to jump in from time to time.

Making the game worse wont bring any new players in and will only scare away people who liked how the game was…

This thread is perfect for any english major to study semantics.

Anyways imo play how you want isnt gone its just they need to reward more evenly for all aspects of the game and add in more content. But you can still play how you want, you’re just forcing yourself into thinking you cant bc shinier ppl are playing in ways you dont like.

Rampage.6489:

timmyf.1490:

Thaddeus.4891:

How GW2 does? I don’t know. We will need to compare it to other game to really know. But you can’t just assume that the game don’t keep its player base because about 50% of their player only play through the story and dungeon only once. That’s what most ppl do in most of their games.

MMOs, in general, don’t see rising populations over time. But it feels like, with the number of sales we’ve seen especially, ArenaNet is making a strong push to add more players. This is happening because ArenaNet has concluded that the game NEEDS MORE PLAYERS.

I’m not necessarily trying to make a point here, I’m just trying to remind everybody: the NPE, the new dailies, the log on rewards, the Living Story… the entire point of these things is to encourage players to keep the game installed and to jump in from time to time.

Making the game worse wont bring any new players in and will only scare away people who liked how the game was…

They seem to think that they do make a better game for new players and don’t care for the current ones.

Well, ‘Look How I Want’, at any rate.

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

Yoroiookami.3485:

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

And yet the new dailies that people rage about in this thread means LESS grinding.

And no, they never said the game would be grind-free (or nearly grind-free). They said that you are not forced to grind to access all the content.

Ranael.6423:

Chase.8415:

China is the worst thing to ever happen to this game.

Pre-made semi-racist sentences like these are the worst things to ever happen to this thread…..

How is that even close to being racist?!!!

Wow.

What a stupid, foolish comment.

Felkes.2759:

+1 to the OP.
Now here’s hoping ANet is good enough to sack up, and finally say “we were wrong” and bring back the game we (or at least I and older players) PAYED FOR.

Not going to happen. Even if they did who cares? No really. Many of us read the forums as a point of interest. But the game is literally not worth time playing it let alone paying for it. I gladly give Blizz and CCP my money each month and spend lots of time in their games because it’s fun and rewarding. With GW2 it’s more rewarding to not waste my time in game. Although the forums are entertaining to read while in fleet or riding on flight paths.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Felkes.2759:

+1 to the OP.
Now here’s hoping ANet is good enough to sack up, and finally say “we were wrong” and bring back the game we (or at least I and older players) PAYED FOR.

. . . I don’t want that game back.

No, seriously, I do not want that game back. It was terrible in all kinds of places and broken in others.

That however is the game that was different unique and fun. Now that the game is is trying to imitate other games it’s failing hard. Over 10mil paying monthly subscribers. Over 3mil expansion sales in the first 24 hours after launch and that’s not counting preorders………. Their expansion numbers blow GW2s release numbers that they like to brag about all the time out of the water. Sorry but their doing it right. Players vote with their credit cards and the votes are in. After lost shore with 100+ people in guild on each night went down to under 10. You may have not liked that game the vast majority did. Enjoy being a special flower in an empty game that will go the way of Vanguard.

Lothirieth.3408:

People aren’t asking to get rewards from chatting or a precursor upon login.

No actually that’s what it would take at a minimum for a few I’ve actually talked to about the game. You would have to be guaranteed the possibility of having the best gear in game. Granted you’d have to put a lot of work in to finish it but still you’d be guaranteed the if you put in that work you’d get it. Right now that’s not a sure thing so why would I waste my time on a rare chance of something? And honestly even if they did do that it’s a 2 year old game and a 2 year old weapon. By the time that’s done another .5-1 year later now a 3 year old game and weapon in a game that has a fraction of it’s player base……. Nah i’d have to be more then even a free precursor to get people back.

Don’t even know if it would really even be possible. People now have a bad stigma about the game so you’d have to come out with some changes and a way to market them to get people that tune out everytime they hear guild wars now to actually pay attention. I don’t think that’s possible after the huge disappointment this game was to the small portion of the gaming player base as a whole they had.

In contrast, in my Garrison after it hits level three, which I can actively do, a NPC spawns that starts the legendary for this expansions quest. I put forth the effort I’m guaranteed to get the item unlike GW2 where your guaranteed a minute chance at it.

+1
Most of the reasons that eventually made me give up on the game I used to love listed perfectly. Great job.

I haven’t been able to play how I want since day 1… (with all those achievements and items specifically tied to content I will never do, like sPvP for example) so nothing new here tbh

Zaoda.1653:

I haven’t been able to play how I want since day 1…

Same here from day 1 I wanted all players to instantly send me all their riches upon my login. I wanted to slaughter PVE peasants by the dozen on any map just to make them whine.

But yet here the complain is because the daily number went from 5 to 3, and you are rewarded for merely logining in.

You people have never known “the struggle” of playing how you want

The new dailies have you play less how you want and I am not liking them as much. More freedom was given with the old dailies.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

I’ve never grinded in this game…

Try again

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

I’ve never grinded in this game…

Try again

Agreed. Same here. The majority of this thread is just subjective opinion trying to be presented as fact. Fun to watch, but completely pointless in the end.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

I suggest doing some research into exactly where this originated from including the context of the statement. I’m pretty sure the large percentage of those complaining that there’s a grind, and how there wasn’t supposed to be any, have no idea what they’re complaining about.

You can enjoy 99% of the game without grind and none of the content is locked behind grind.

McSlappy.1372:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Felkes.2759:

+1 to the OP.
Now here’s hoping ANet is good enough to sack up, and finally say “we were wrong” and bring back the game we (or at least I and older players) PAYED FOR.

. . . I don’t want that game back.

No, seriously, I do not want that game back. It was terrible in all kinds of places and broken in others.

That however is the game that was different unique and fun. Now that the game is is trying to imitate other games it’s failing hard. Over 10mil paying monthly subscribers. Over 3mil expansion sales in the first 24 hours after launch and that’s not counting preorders………. Their expansion numbers blow GW2s release numbers that they like to brag about all the time out of the water. Sorry but their doing it right. Players vote with their credit cards and the votes are in. After lost shore with 100+ people in guild on each night went down to under 10. You may have not liked that game the vast majority did. Enjoy being a special flower in an empty game that will go the way of Vanguard.

That other game is also imitating other games too, so I hear, and has been for a while. Also, the “votes” about the other game . . . I talk with people. They keep playing because all their friends are still playing it, and they’ve put enough money into it to feel bad about just dropping it. (Sort of why it took me so long to quit EQ, along with shiny GM Event loot I had…)

As for why I don’t want that game back? Rangers seen as terrible loads, everyone clustering into a pair of events in a zone of your choosing, no Wardrobe, no Wallet, ran like crap on my computer, and there wasn’t much reason to do anything other than a handful of the World Bosses ever.

Sure, it’d get rid of the troublesome Ascended tier stuff, the repeated tinkering with Daily/Monthly, and most of the things I have hanging out in my Home Instance . . . but speaking from having been here on release? I don’t really want the game just rolled back to that point and then locked there.

Ayrilana.1396:

You can enjoy 99% of the game without grind and none of the content is locked behind grind.

Well, some of it is, if you want to count high-level Fractals. And if you’re loose enough with a definition of “grind” then the Hearts are all grind

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ayrilana.1396:

You can enjoy 99% of the game without grind and none of the content is locked behind grind.

Well, some of it is, if you want to count high-level Fractals. And if you’re loose enough with a definition of “grind” then the Hearts are all grind

Exactly what additional content do you get from high level fractals than lower level fractals? Do the maps change? Are there different enemies and bosses? All I see is the addition of more agony damage and artificially inflated HP pools and damage for the enemies with slightly better loot opportunities.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ayrilana.1396:

You can enjoy 99% of the game without grind and none of the content is locked behind grind.

Well, some of it is, if you want to count high-level Fractals. And if you’re loose enough with a definition of “grind” then the Hearts are all grind

Exactly what additional content do you get from high level fractals than lower level fractals? Do the maps changes? Are there different enemies and bosses?

I said if you want to count it. Some people do, since the loot changes over at 10+, so I understand. Allowing you to start earning those Ascended rings and Pristine relics easier.

Bear in mind, I don’t often do Fractals because they tend to frustrate me a bit . . . especially two of them: Swamp and Cliffside. And when they first came out, I wound up doing them rather a lot so I grew to really not like doing Fractals. I’ll do it if the guild has an open spot and asks for someone to hop in . . . but I’m not going out of the way for it.

Not even if it guaranteed a Precursor.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ayrilana.1396:

You can enjoy 99% of the game without grind and none of the content is locked behind grind.

Well, some of it is, if you want to count high-level Fractals. And if you’re loose enough with a definition of “grind” then the Hearts are all grind

Exactly what additional content do you get from high level fractals than lower level fractals? Do the maps changes? Are there different enemies and bosses?

I said if you want to count it. Some people do, since the loot changes over at 10+, so I understand. Allowing you to start earning those Ascended rings and Pristine relics easier.

Bear in mind, I don’t often do Fractals because they tend to frustrate me a bit . . . especially two of them: Swamp and Cliffside. And when they first came out, I wound up doing them rather a lot so I grew to really not like doing Fractals. I’ll do it if the guild has an open spot and asks for someone to hop in . . . but I’m not going out of the way for it.

Not even if it guaranteed a Precursor.

I know you did say that. I just wanted to bring that up as others have often used high level fractals as content when arguing against grind. I’m pretty sure those same people would not consider the reset of fractal levels and instabilities as content.

Swamp is actually one of my favorite fractals when done with people that know that they can jump onto and over the trees. Cliffside also depends on whether people know what to do at that section with the two seals.

Ayrilana.1396:

Swamp is actually one of my favorite fractals when done with people that know that they can jump onto and over the trees. Cliffside also depends on whether people know what to do at that section with the two seals.

Swamp, my performance is mostly in the hands of everyone else – I can just Stability and rush the one with all the tripwire/beartraps back easily. That’s not really the issue so much as the far ones.

Cliffside, that two seal one is why I don’t like it . . . it’s a bit tricky and real easy to screw up. Also, people seem to like cheesing the final encounter so hard Kraft is suing.

+1 to the OP

My sentiments exactly. The old dailies kept me logging in and playing (and paying in the Gem store). I could complete the dailies by just PLAYING. I’d play on main doing the new LS, on an 80 alt working on world completion, on a low level alt trying to get to 80.

The new dailies funnel me into places I may not want to go, and to do things I might not want. It’s not even worth the coin to waypoint to get to half the places all over the world for the dailies now.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Cliffside, that two seal one is why I don’t like it . . . it’s a bit tricky and real easy to screw up. Also, people seem to like cheesing the final encounter so hard Kraft is suing.

I’ll never understand why people don’t just alternate sides with the full party in sub-40 FotM. It’s like “Nooo, that’ll be slower than if we do XYZ”. Yes, and chances are that if you sum it up between all times you do it and all wipes, just alternating is much faster all-over. :P

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

I’ve never grinded in this game…

Try again

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

I suggest doing some research into exactly where this originated from including the context of the statement. I’m pretty sure the large percentage of those complaining that there’s a grind, and how there wasn’t supposed to be any, have no idea what they’re complaining about.

You can enjoy 99% of the game without grind and none of the content is locked behind grind.

Teon.5168:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Am I playing this game wrong or something? I seriously have no troubles with what they’re doing with the game and I’ve almost got 5k playing hours…

I guess you just enjoy grinding. Nothing wrong with that. It’s just that some people don’t. And I’m pretty sure that one of GW2’s…“features”…was “nearly grind-free game”. Which is a bit ironic nowadays.

I’ve never grinded in this game…

Try again

Agreed. Same here. The majority of this thread is just subjective opinion trying to be presented as fact. Fun to watch, but completely pointless in the end.

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That other game is also imitating other games too, so I hear, and has been for a while.

Ohh absolutely they do. Every expansion you can find items borrowed from other games. Some improved on some fairly xerox copied. Like the Garrison follower missions. Fairly closely taken from Star Wars. Send them on missions to get things then they arrive back with goodies. Then they expanded on it. They see things trending out there in other games that are fun and incorporate it. From GW2 I think they grabbed the multiple can harvest the same resources. Hey that’s a good aspect that I can now play over there. Anet seems to be doing the same but they seem to be copying all the things people don’t like and complain about.

McSlappy.1372:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That other game is also imitating other games too, so I hear, and has been for a while.

Ohh absolutely they do. Every expansion you can find items borrowed from other games. Some improved on some fairly xerox copied. Like the Garrison follower missions. Fairly closely taken from Star Wars. Send them on missions to get things then they arrive back with goodies. Then they expanded on it. They see things trending out there in other games that are fun and incorporate it. From GW2 I think they grabbed the multiple can harvest the same resources. Hey that’s a good aspect that I can now play over there. Anet seems to be doing the same but they seem to be copying all the things people don’t like and complain about.

Another game also had the “follower” type thing too, I kind of liked the concept. They also had instanced resource nodes too, and down-scaling to events (though, alas, not automatically).

Anyway, where was I? Oh, right . . .

Saying I mostly am okay with where the game is right now. (Not “I love it” or “I like it” even, just “I’m okay with this”.) Especially versus where it began . . .

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

They’re meaning skins and items as content, such as dungeon armors, Ascended gear, Mawdrey . . .

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

They’re meaning skins and items as content, such as dungeon armors, Ascended gear, Mawdrey . . .

Heh. Those are more like rewards.

+100 – Cant agree more. Much disliked (and still dislike) the game changes implemented during the past 6 months (they killed a big chunk of my excitement I felt for the game) for the same reasons you mentioned. Havent even logged into the game since Wintersday patch. One of the final features of getting awarded just for logging in and logging out summarizes it perfectly for me: Arenanet has become so unsecure about / cynical towards their own game, they just want people to login and logout. Obviously nothing of real excitement left to do ingame any longer … very sad.

particlepinata.9865:

My personal experience in this game is that theres a shift from horizontal progression/gameplay to vertical progession/gameplay over the last year.
Every patch things are symplified/narrowed/gated more. (npe/traits/gating of ps/cutting content out of the PS/narrowing achievements). And the new login rewards dont bring people to play more, only to login and logout (good for the metrics/not to retain players).
After the newest Wintersday incarnation (which is ten times the grind then the ones before) i come to the point that it dousn’t feel good anymore, its got a forced feeling over it. I personally have come at the point that i think it will be a good time to stop.

AuroraW.7149:

+100 – Cant agree more. Much disliked (and still dislike) the game changes implemented during the past 6 months (they killed a big chunk of my excitement I felt for the game) for the same reasons you mentioned. Havent even logged into the game since Wintersday patch. One of the final features of getting awarded just for logging in and logging out summarizes it perfectly for me: Arenanet has become so unsecure about / cynical towards their own game, they just want people to login and logout. Obviously nothing of real excitement left to do ingame any longer … very sad.

Wait, so you are basically complaining about something you haven’t even tried?

As stated, its a good time to stop and this is what I am doing right now. It obviously only gets worse, not better. Played since GW2 release date and highly enjoyed the game. Still love the breathtaking artwork, the deep / complex lore and sleek game mechanics. Still hang with the game during the past yeear cause there have been some interesting improvements storytellingwise. However, other parts of the game didnt improve, just the opposite. So thats it. May logon again for continuing LW2, but definitely not for the changes they made to the game.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

But I did. Ascended Armour, Dungeon Armour, crafting Mawdrey and if you’re interested in more:
- getting Legendary (and precursor)
- getting Pavilion rewards
- unlocking titles
- repeating winter activities to get wintersday rewards

With dungeons and legendaries being the least obnoxious ways of grinding, as they vary things a little. The only other way of getting some of those things is buying them for gold, which requires, in turn, to grind for gold or buy it for real money.
Unless you don’t see it as grinding. I sure as hell do.

The whole game has come to this.
Do you have enough materials to get this thing? No? Then grind for materials. You don’t want to? Do you have gold? No? Then grind for gold.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

They’re meaning skins and items as content, such as dungeon armors, Ascended gear, Mawdrey . . .

Heh. Those are more like rewards.

In horizontal progress, these things are actually less like rewards and more like goals. Goals that are either tied to the very lucky, the very dedicated or the wealthy enough to just but gems (and not even in many cases). GW2 is very casual in the fact that you can just play, but if you want the shinies, you’re going to have to “work” for them and in some cases, it’s not even remotely a guaranteed end point.

When you balance out rewards with goals, you start to notice a pretty high level of goals with a minimal reward system. I’m not talking about handing out common stuff either, which is pretty much where we are now. I’m talking about challenging content that contains a desired outcome. For example, the balance between smaller group content versus open world. There should definitely be a balance between press a button, get a cookie and a challenge that rewards players with special uncommon loot. What we see more of right now is the former. While fractals sort of fits the latter, it’s a very stale meta and even there, you get showered with one type of loot and very rarely get the less common rewards, if ever.

Unfortunately, it’s a little too late. While first impressions were good enough, the lasting version leaves much to be desired. At this point i’m very unsure the game is going to rebound significantly, especially with some of the recent design decisions. I’m pretty certain at this point “play how you want” shouldn’t be a selling point for any video game, as it will always be a play how we designed it to be.

Yoroiookami.3485:

But I did. Ascended Armour, Dungeon Armour, crafting Mawdrey and if you’re interested in more:
- getting Legendary (and precursor)
- getting Pavilion rewards
- unlocking titles
- repeating winter activities to get wintersday rewards

With dungeons and legendaries being the least obnoxious ways of grinding, as they vary things a little. The only other way of getting some of those things is buying them for gold, which requires, in turn, to grind for gold or buy it for real money.
Unless you don’t see it as grinding. I sure as hell do.

The whole game has come to this.
Do you have enough materials to get this thing? No? Then grind for materials. You don’t want to? Do you have gold? No? Then grind for gold.

But those are rewards not content. The “no grind” is about the content access, basically you can jump in dungeons, LS episodes, new maps, PvP, WvW or World boss train right after reaching the required level. In the manifesto it was to be opposed to some other MMOs in which after getting max level you have to do daily quests for long enough to get a token or a gear piece that will allow you to enter a new dungeon or raid.
The different approach in GW2 is that you can do whatever you want as soon as you reach 80. Then if you “specialized” in one activity you will get a cosmetic reward. But if you want to change your activity during your playtime you also can, you will just won’t be able to show that armor or that weapon to everybody. In the mean time you won’t be really weaker or have less access to character customization (cosmetic aside) than the rest of the crowd.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

What do you mean we don’t know what they meant by “we don’t want players to grind in GW2”. It’s pretty cut and dry. They literally don’t want players doing the same things repeatedly. Of course basically anything they add anymore is exactly that, doing the same thing over and over again in order to get a reward.

As for your statement, where does this content lock suddenly come from? You’re the one tacking on words. However, let’s go with your idea for a second. If the ultimate goal of RPG’s is character progression then it can either be through stats or story. So we can now infer that there are 2 endgame goals in GW2, to do the story and to max out stats. There is, however, a 3rd endgame goal of getting skins that is gained from the social aspect that come from MMO’s.

Stats can then be further broken down into Achievement points, player stats, and ranking. The story you get free and can be unlocked quickly, so no grinding. Unless of course you didn’t have the game or didn’t login the 2weeks that story was up. At which point you need to buy that story and doing that through the game requires grinding. Maxing achievment points is certainly a grind since not only do most of the achievements require grinding, there are repeatable achievements that need to be grinded as well. WvW ranking is grinding. SPvP is no longer grinding since it’s elo based, but I don’t dabble in that to say definitively. Ascended gear is grinding as is getting a precursor and then getting a legendary. The best skins cost a ton of money, thus grinding, or are only rewarded through very low RNG, which causes grinding.

If you’re a player that logs in every new LS update, finishes the story, and does any new events in the zone 1-2 times without worrying about gear, AP, or skins; then sure there is no grind. However if you want the best gear, AP, or skins then welcome to GrindWars 2. When most of the endgame goals are behind grinds then I think I can say Yes content is locked behind grinding. There is a reason that the champion trains in PvE started and the EotM karma train is still running. There is relatively little driving content and tons of grinding content. Even the content that might be considered driving often times offers so little reward that it becomes grinding content.

Please please PLEASE reduce region specific pve dailies. I’m fine with one region specific daily but why does every single pve daily have to be region specific and all over the map? This is the worst change you’ve ever made to the game. Instead it should be 1 region specific and the rest general like the old ones. It should be one day region specific gatherer and general event completer and another day region specific event completer and general gatherer. Current form is so annoying to play I’ve skipped my dailies most days since the patch.

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

I actually get my money from TP flipping, which I rather enjoy doing.
I do daily dungeons with my guildies, but that’s to help them or cause I like running with them.

Some GW2 quote once said: Players don’t want some boring grind, over and over.

If this is grinding, it’s certainly very enjoyable to me

Distaste.4801:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

What do you mean we don’t know what they meant by “we don’t want players to grind in GW2”. It’s pretty cut and dry. They literally don’t want players doing the same things repeatedly. Of course basically anything they add anymore is exactly that, doing the same thing over and over again in order to get a reward.

I’ve been over the quote “we don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2” again and again. Taken out of context, it means what you think it means. Taken in context it doesn’t mean that at all.

It’s talking about grinding to level because that’s what grinding traditionally means. Looking up grinding in wikipedia it’s in the first sentences. Grinding to level is what they were talking about, because when they made that video many games didn’t have enough quests to really level you and you just had to go out and kill stuff to level.

That’s why they say, in the same paragraph, "we want to change the way people view “combat”. Not gear, not loot, combat.

Grind has come to mean other things, more so every year, but back then, more people thought it meant grinding to level. What you’re talking about is farming, not grinding to a lot of old timers. The word has changed.

Try reading the whole paragraph and tell me what in it makes you think he’s talking about anything but combat.

Anyway at the time, it was repeated several times at conventions, and Anet employees explained exactly what it meant.

It isn’t what you’re saying it meant.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

But I did. Ascended Armour, Dungeon Armour, crafting Mawdrey and if you’re interested in more:
- getting Legendary (and precursor)
- getting Pavilion rewards
- unlocking titles
- repeating winter activities to get wintersday rewards

With dungeons and legendaries being the least obnoxious ways of grinding, as they vary things a little. The only other way of getting some of those things is buying them for gold, which requires, in turn, to grind for gold or buy it for real money.
Unless you don’t see it as grinding. I sure as hell do.

The whole game has come to this.
Do you have enough materials to get this thing? No? Then grind for materials. You don’t want to? Do you have gold? No? Then grind for gold.

Actually, you don’t even need to grind for gold. If you are only interested in gaining the rewards (which as said, are not considered content) and you can puraches many of those with gold, they also included a nice gem to gold conversion feature.

So do you have enough materials to get this things? No? Then play the game and aquire them through normal play. You don’t want to because you feel you need X item right now? Do you have gold? No? Then use your credit card and buy gold.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

I actually get my money from TP flipping, which I rather enjoy doing.
I do daily dungeons with my guildies, but that’s to help them or cause I like running with them.

Some GW2 quote once said: Players don’t want some boring grind, over and over.

If this is grinding, it’s certainly very enjoyable to me

Maybe it’s weird but I’m actually glad you find it enjoyable. Some people do, at least.

pdavis.8031:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

But I did. Ascended Armour, Dungeon Armour, crafting Mawdrey and if you’re interested in more:
- getting Legendary (and precursor)
- getting Pavilion rewards
- unlocking titles
- repeating winter activities to get wintersday rewards

With dungeons and legendaries being the least obnoxious ways of grinding, as they vary things a little. The only other way of getting some of those things is buying them for gold, which requires, in turn, to grind for gold or buy it for real money.
Unless you don’t see it as grinding. I sure as hell do.

The whole game has come to this.
Do you have enough materials to get this thing? No? Then grind for materials. You don’t want to? Do you have gold? No? Then grind for gold.

Actually, you don’t even need to grind for gold. If you are only interested in gaining the rewards (which as said, are not considered content) and you can puraches many of those with gold, they also included a nice gem to gold conversion feature.

So do you have enough materials to get this things? No? Then play the game and aquire them through normal play. You don’t want to because you feel you need X item right now? Do you have gold? No? Then use your credit card and buy gold.

Of course you have to grind for gold. Any beggining level 1-20 player will tell you that. They start with nothing, they get nothing for exploration and completing heart quests. Then they discover the best way of making gold – aka dungeons, which is a way of grinding. That’s how this game is right now. Grinding is rewarded. Mindlessly running and doing the same thing is rewarded. If it offered challenge, maybe it would be fun, but it doesn’t, really.

Yoroiookami.3485:

pdavis.8031:

Yoroiookami.3485:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

But I did. Ascended Armour, Dungeon Armour, crafting Mawdrey and if you’re interested in more:
- getting Legendary (and precursor)
- getting Pavilion rewards
- unlocking titles
- repeating winter activities to get wintersday rewards

With dungeons and legendaries being the least obnoxious ways of grinding, as they vary things a little. The only other way of getting some of those things is buying them for gold, which requires, in turn, to grind for gold or buy it for real money.
Unless you don’t see it as grinding. I sure as hell do.

The whole game has come to this.
Do you have enough materials to get this thing? No? Then grind for materials. You don’t want to? Do you have gold? No? Then grind for gold.

Actually, you don’t even need to grind for gold. If you are only interested in gaining the rewards (which as said, are not considered content) and you can puraches many of those with gold, they also included a nice gem to gold conversion feature.

So do you have enough materials to get this things? No? Then play the game and aquire them through normal play. You don’t want to because you feel you need X item right now? Do you have gold? No? Then use your credit card and buy gold.

Of course you have to grind for gold. Any beggining level 1-20 player will tell you that. They start with nothing, they get nothing for exploration and completing heart quests. Then they discover the beast way of making gold – aka dungeons, which is a way of grinding. That’s how this game is right now. Grinding is rewarded. Mindlessly running and doing the same thing is rewarded. If it offered challenge, maybe it would be fun, but it doesn’t, really.

How is swiping my credit card, purchasing gems, converting those to gold and buying what I want from the TP a grind?

There are plenty of alternative ways to get gold, and none of them are “Mindlessly running and doing the same thing”. Just doing map completion actually can net quite a bit of gold. Harvest EVERYTHING, do all the hearts/events in that area, and move on. PS, LS, dungeons, PvP, WvW, all give money. Of course due to the very nature of the game you are going to do more then one thing at any given time. Unless you just did 1 PvP match, Map completion in WvW, full PS and LS, including all the dungeons, 1 fractal, and each of the world bosses.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yoroiookami.3485:

What can I say. I don’t believe you, when you say that you didn’t grind in the game. I consider grind as doing the same pieces of content over and over again in order to gain something.

Grinding:
- Doing the same dungeon over and over again for tokens
- Getting gold for ascended armour/getting materials for ascended armour/killing mobs for ascended armour and weapons.
- Getting x amount of geodes to craft Mawdrey and a bonus time-wall in case you actually want to craft everything yourself. (Getting punished for limiting grind)
- Queensdale, Orr, “Whatever” Train.
- Farming Black Lion Keys.
- …
Just off the top of my head.
Of course you can always pay for some of those with real life money, but otherwise you’re forced to grind, or find rich friends.
That’s grind for me. Plenty of content is locked behind it. It’s okay if you disagree.

As I had stated before, you don’t understand what they meant by no grind. I feel generous so I’ll link a few things to read/watch for you.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

You stated plenty of content is locked behind grind but you didn’t list a single example. Could you please provide me with one?

But I did. Ascended Armour, Dungeon Armour, crafting Mawdrey and if you’re interested in more:
- getting Legendary (and precursor)
- getting Pavilion rewards
- unlocking titles
- repeating winter activities to get wintersday rewards

With dungeons and legendaries being the least obnoxious ways of grinding, as they vary things a little. The only other way of getting some of those things is buying them for gold, which requires, in turn, to grind for gold or buy it for real money.
Unless you don’t see it as grinding. I sure as hell do.

The whole game has come to this.
Do you have enough materials to get this thing? No? Then grind for materials. You don’t want to? Do you have gold? No? Then grind for gold.

You’re missing what they were talking about. They were not talking about loot/rewards but having to grind to gain access to content.