Guild Wars 2

Carighan.6758:

I think the point of getting “best gear” is very relative.
Do you accept Exotic gear as close enough that any difference in player skill, no matter how small, will dwarf the difference in stats?

No.

You can play “how you want” moreso than ever.

Anet made it so you don’t need to do your dailies at all.

Your Laurels are awarded just for logging in.

Talk about people being misinformed.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You can play “how you want” moreso than ever.

Anet made it so you don’t need to do your dailies at all.

Your Laurels are awarded just for logging in.

Talk about people being misinformed.

There are several, multi-paged threads that cover every possible aspect of that not being true.
So I’d be careful who you call misinformed. Wouldn’t want to look like a hypocrite.

The trait change is imho the worst change they have made. If it was like this from the start then ok, but changing it was a real bad move..

Code.8615:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You can play “how you want” moreso than ever.

Anet made it so you don’t need to do your dailies at all.

Your Laurels are awarded just for logging in.

Talk about people being misinformed.

There are several, multi-paged threads that cover every possible aspect of that not being true.
So I’d be careful who you call misinformed. Wouldn’t want to look like a hypocrite.

Except they are all just xenophobic players whining with no justification.

I’ve read through plenty of these threads, stated facts, and get ignored because the points are valid irrefutable and there is no logic whatsoever on the opposing side of the argument.

Again…. you don’t need to do your dailies at all.

Laurels, mystic coins, black lion gem store loot, is all awarded for daily logins.

You don’t need to do your daily at all unless you want your 10 AP.

That being said… anyone who was serious about/was grinding for AP was going out of their way to complete more daily categories than they wanted to in the first place….. which is why this was changed.

The AP grinders get what they want after minimal effort, and no longer have to complete all the categories.

3 Daily categories for 10AP is a godsend compared to what it was before.

…and with categories like “View a vista in Lion’s Arch” you have no reason to be complaining… AT ALL.

Code.8615:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You can play “how you want” moreso than ever.

Anet made it so you don’t need to do your dailies at all.

Your Laurels are awarded just for logging in.

Talk about people being misinformed.

There are several, multi-paged threads that cover every possible aspect of that not being true.
So I’d be careful who you call misinformed. Wouldn’t want to look like a hypocrite.

The same can be said about climate change, but I’m pretty sure that people who don’t believe in it are misinformed. lol

Zylonite.5913:

I don’t understand why people go through all the efforts to make these long posts when ANet clearly never listens to anything and continues in their own path of destruction.

I still make a post, every now and then, in hopes that anet will read and listen to the people but I totally agree with you.

Vayne.8563:

Code.8615:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You can play “how you want” moreso than ever.

Anet made it so you don’t need to do your dailies at all.

Your Laurels are awarded just for logging in.

Talk about people being misinformed.

There are several, multi-paged threads that cover every possible aspect of that not being true.
So I’d be careful who you call misinformed. Wouldn’t want to look like a hypocrite.

The same can be said about climate change, but I’m pretty sure that people who don’t believe in it are misinformed. lol

The freebies by just login reminds me of Pavlov experiences…. >_>

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’ve read through plenty of these threads, stated facts, and get ignored because the points are valid irrefutable and there is no logic whatsoever on the opposing side of the argument.

Just to inform you, you get ignored because your posts are an example of demagogy, along with strawman arguments, deliberately missing strong counter-arguments, and aggression.

People here are often used to these forum tricks and don’t take them seriously.

When did “Play as you want,” come to mean “Have every reward for doing anything or nothing at all?”

What is intrinsically wrong with being required to go out of your way to complete optional achievements for optional rewards?

How is complaining about the dailies in their current for any different from complaining that you can’t get Arah armor by harvesting plants in Ascalon?

It seems to me that you people complaining have simply become set in your ways, and are opposed to the change because “We had it before.” “We had it before” is not the same as “It was better for everyone before.”

Subdue.5479:

When did “Play as you want,” come to mean “Have every reward for doing anything or nothing at all?”

What is intrinsically wrong with being required to go out of your way to complete optional achievements for optional rewards?

How is complaining about the dailies in their current for any different from complaining that you can’t get Arah armor by harvesting plants in Ascalon?

It seems to me that you people complaining have simply become set in your ways, and are opposed to the change because “We had it before.” “We had it before” is not the same as “It was better for everyone before.”

I agree with you, and I actually think that if we had the system that we do now in the past and it was updated to the old system that we just got away from, there would be just as long of a thread about how hard it is to get dailies.

Subdue.5479:

It seems to me that you people complaining have simply become set in your ways, and are opposed to the change because “We had it before.” “We had it before” is not the same as “It was better for everyone before.”

I consider “we had it before” to be a valid concern. If you had it before and now you don’t, that is to be perceived as removal of freedom. In this particular case, it was removing the freedom of getting 5-8 AP given for playing almost any thing in the game and replacing it by a requirement of doing 3 specific tasks for 10 AP.

Goose.8195:

I agree with you, and I actually think that if we had the system that we do now in the past and it was updated to the old system that we just got away from, there would be just as long of a thread about how hard it is to get dailies.

Do you remember this 8-page thread and this thread? It proves you wrong. We already had less choice and specific tasks, and people complained that they didn’t like it, and were happy when we moved to more choice and generic tasks.

fireflyry.7023:

Log in rewards are really a different topic as thats something totally new. I don’t like them, the game should make me want to log in of it’s own accord not because I get a “shinie!!”.

Outside that you missed my point. Rewarding players who log in every day over the previous system of a monthly goal done at ones own pace will put a lot of players off, as this thread clearly shows.

Analogy:

Turn up here every day at a similar time, do the same things over and over, many of which you don’t actually want to do but we make you do in order to garner reward. See you again tomorrow to do it all over again.

What does this remind you of? A game?

I can log in any time I want. I can spend my time doing whatever I want. I don’t have anybody telling me what I must do.

If you’re going to complain about the new daily system making it so that you “have to do the same thing over and over to gather reward”, then you should have been complaining about dungeons, world bosses, Orr, Dry Top, and SW before this. All of those required you to do the same thing over and over to get rewards. IF you wanted the rewards. If you didn’t, you don’t have to. Crazy how you get that choice, but people seem to ignore that it’s a choice.

And why shouldn’t they reward people who want to play the game consistently over a month over people who only want to log in a couple days in a month to get monthlies done?

Personally, I thought the monthly system was stupid. They should have been capped at X amount of progress per day to actually make them last for more of a month. When monthlies can realistically be achieved with a day or two of grinding, that’s not a monthly achievement. That’s a daily that doesn’t cycle as fast. Could have been something like 1 JP a day up to 15. Or 400 salvages/masterwork crafts but only the first 25 per day count. Or 30 champions/group events, but only the first 2 count per day.

Also, PvEers need to get out of their heads that they’re the only ones in the game. I don’t go out of my way at all when I get my WvW achievements. Prior to this, I needed to if I wanted to get 10 AP. Now I don’t.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Subdue.5479:

It seems to me that you people complaining have simply become set in your ways, and are opposed to the change because “We had it before.” “We had it before” is not the same as “It was better for everyone before.”

I consider “we had it before” to be a valid concern. If you had it before and now you don’t, that is to be perceived as removal of freedom. In this particular case, it was removing the freedom of getting 5-8 AP given for playing almost any thing in the game and replacing it by a requirement of doing 3 specific tasks for 10 AP.

The old system really wasn’t freedom though. It is only perceived as “freedom” because of the play-style of many of the forum posters. If you have no interest in resurrecting people, harvesting, etc. then the old system was still forcing you to go out of your norm to do something for achievement points. The new system also forces you to go out of your norm, but in my opinion, feel it takes a lot less time to do so. There were many days where I played for an hour or so and looked and my dailies that I had left and just said “screw it, don’t feel like doing the rest” and gave up on the day. If they were truly a gimme, then in an hour of playtime you’d think they’d be accomplished without a problem.

Goose.8195:

If you have no interest in resurrecting people, harvesting, etc. then the old system was still forcing you to go out of your norm to do something for achievement points.

Correction: for laurels, coins and BLTC items. You got AP straight away. But you were correct in saying that freedom was relative; but for those who are assumed to be the majority (PvE whatever-I-want-today players), that relativity was pretty much absolute.

As has been suggested, having best of the both worlds would be desirable:

• letting AP hunters grind less,
• letting longer-playing but specific-content people get larger but generic achievements naturally,
• and letting everyone, especially ultra casual players, to get daily currencies for logging in.

Lishtenbird.2814:

In this particular case, it was removing the freedom of getting 5-8 AP given for playing almost any thing in the game and replacing it by a requirement of doing 3 specific tasks for 10 AP.

I only didn’t mention the laurel, mystic coin, etc. because you specifically said AP.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

3 dailies gets you the AP of 10 dailies previous.
You also get the bonus box rewards.
On top of the daily log-in rewards.

How is that less?

It’s not, unless you ignore the fact that one has to do the dailies (for 10AP) instead of playing the game as they liked (for 5-8AP)… and – surprise! – you are conveniently ignoring that fact.

And something you “conveniently ignored” from the very post you quoted:

They’re only getting less if they choose to get less. If they put a fraction of the effort spent complaining into doing the dailies, they’d actually end up getting more.

The actual objective facts of the current system is that for some effort, you get more rewards. You only get less if you ignore a certain section of the game.

Except that’s been how it’s worked for how long, now? I mean, I didn’t get Dry Top rewards without going to Dry Top, I didn’t get dungeon rewards without going to a dungeon. Even the old dailies required me to go out of my way if I wanted 10 AP most days.

So let’s put out the real issue here, based on your post here.

The problem isn’t choice. You still can choose what content you want to do. The problem is that when you choose what content you want to do, you’re now getting less rewards (i.e. a handful of AP).

So the real problem here is the rewards, not choice. So why do people keep misrepresenting the problem as having choice removed?

Nothing is stopping you from playing how you want.

KarlaGrey.5903:

You know very well that the statement of ‘can get the best gear by means other than crafting’ is disingenious at best, and intentionally misleading at worst.

Bear this in mind before I respond to the rest of the post: I’ve never argued that you’re likely to get useful gear. You have about the same odds of the drop being something useful to you as any random exotic (I assume, unless for some reason certain stat combinations drop more frequently). That being said, I have gotten some useful rings from WvW loot.

Only thing I’ve argued is that objectively, you can obtain ascended gear through means other than crafting, and ascended is the top tier. Period.

Also, bear in mind that ascended equipment includes rings, accessories, and necklaces, all of which can be obtained through laurels, which are obtained by doing whatever you want. People seem to try to focus on armour and weapons and ignore that you can get some of your top-tier gear pieces through a vendor.

Filaha.1678:

The actual objective facts of the current system is that for some effort, you get more rewards.

The actual results is that with same effort, you get zero APs.

Filaha.1678:

Except that’s been how it’s worked for how long, now? I mean, I didn’t get Dry Top rewards without going to Dry Top, I didn’t get dungeon rewards without going to a dungeon. Even the old dailies required me to go out of my way if I wanted 10 AP most days.

You got 1 AP for doing 1 daily. You get a drop after killing a mob. You get 2-12 geodes for doing one DT event. You get a daily chest for doing a dungeon.

You don’t have to grind DT to T6 to start getting the rewards. You don’t have to do all dungeon paths to get a daily chest. But you have to do 3 dailies to start getting AP.

Nice try though.

Filaha.1678:

Even the old dailies required me to go out of my way if I wanted 10 AP most days.

If. A small problem of a handful of AP hunters.

Filaha.1678:

So the real problem here is the rewards, not choice. So why do people keep misrepresenting the problem as having choice removed?

Nice play on words, omitting the “choice of ways to get the reward” part.

You’re taking a very silly view on this. You don’t go into ac, kill the spider queen, and then go. "Okay where’s my 1.5 gold?

Also, it’s very silly to compare the old old system to this new one. The old old system required you to so the dailies to get your laurel. Not doing them would actually lock you out of stats. In contrast, the new dailies give only ap and activity specific rewards. Furthermore, the old old dailies took much more time to complete than the current ones.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

The actual objective facts of the current system is that for some effort, you get more rewards.

The actual results is that with same effort, you get zero APs.

No, the actual result is me logging in, doing twenty minutes of work, and getting 10 AP instead of 5 AP two days in a row. And being able to blow off the other days I don’t feel like it without losing Coins or Laurels. Why is it people seem to think it’s simply not possible to get it done as fast or faster . . . ?

Once more, I’m going to throw my vote for “really should have never overhauled the system for Dailies in the first place” and possibly never have introduced Laurels as a thing. Of course, I also think achievements are a stupid arbitrary thing in the first place.

Subdue.5479:

You’re taking a very silly view on this. You don’t go into ac, kill the spider queen, and then go. "Okay where’s my 1.5 gold?

Also, it’s very silly to compare the old old system to this new one. The old old system required you to so the dailies to get your laurel. Not doing them would actually lock you out of stats. In contrast, the new dailies give only ap and activity specific rewards. Furthermore, the old old dailies took much more time to complete than the current ones.

Old old system? The old-old system didn’t have Laurels. Just Karma jugs. And before that, there was nothing.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Subdue.5479:

You’re taking a very silly view on this. You don’t go into ac, kill the spider queen, and then go. "Okay where’s my 1.5 gold?

Also, it’s very silly to compare the old old system to this new one. The old old system required you to so the dailies to get your laurel. Not doing them would actually lock you out of stats. In contrast, the new dailies give only ap and activity specific rewards. Furthermore, the old old dailies took much more time to complete than the current ones.

Old old system? The old-old system didn’t have Laurels. Just Karma jugs. And before that, there was nothing.

Hmm… You might be right there, my memory is fuzzy on that. I do recall they took significantly longer and have fewer rewards though. I do miss the giant jugs of karma!

Lishtenbird.2814:

The actual results is that with same effort, you get zero APs.

Correction. The actual result is that if you put more or equal effort into the wrong portion, you get 0 AP. If you put minimal effort into the portions asked, you can get 10.

You don’t have to grind DT to T6 to start getting the rewards. You don’t have to do all dungeon paths to get a daily chest. But you have to do 3 dailies to start getting AP.

3 dailies isn’t all dailies, though. 3 dailies is a quarter of the dailies. So you don’t have to do all dailies to get daily rewards.

You don’t have to even do three dailies to start getting the rewards. You also don’t need to do any more than 1 daily to get the reward box for that daily. You can go view a vista or pick some flowers and get rewards!

So I’m not sure why you’re exaggerating how grievous doing three dailies is by comparing it to getting 100% completed for other aspects.

If. A small problem of a handful of AP hunters.

But all we’re talking about here is ifs, isn’kitten
If you don’t care about AP, you don’t have to do the dailies now, or before. If you don’t care about the reward boxes, you don’t have to do the dailies now.
You only are “forced” into these dailies if you want the rewards for them.

Nice play on words, omitting the “choice of ways to get the reward” part.

12 choices is 12 choices. Personally, I can finally get 10 AP per day without having to leave WvW, whereas before I couldn’t. I now have more choice of how to get 10 AP. You PVEers keep forgetting this.

Different choice =/= less choice.

THEE TRAIT SYSTEM, THE TRAAAAAIT SYSTEM

“Oh, won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?”

I’m honestly getting tired of your intricate excuses and word-twisting, Filaha. You’re succeeding in it, I admit, as other posters have already noted it. For now, I’ll just stop at an analogy for this thingie:

Filaha.1678:

12 choices is 12 choices. Personally, I can finally get 10 AP per day without having to leave WvW, whereas before I couldn’t. I now have more choice of how to get 10 AP. You PVEers keep forgetting this.

Different choice =/= less choice.

Previously, the shop had 10 different toy bears, 10 different toy cats, 10 different toy dogs, and 10 different toy foxes.

Now, the shop has 1 toy bear, 1 toy panda, 1 toy cow, 1 toy horse, and even an extra animal type – 1 toy kangaroo! And you’re saying “hooray!” at “different” choices. GJ.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I’m honestly getting tired of your intricate excuses and word-twisting, Filaha. You’re succeeding in it, I admit, as other posters have already noted it. For now, I’ll just stop at an analogy for this thingie:

Filaha.1678:

12 choices is 12 choices. Personally, I can finally get 10 AP per day without having to leave WvW, whereas before I couldn’t. I now have more choice of how to get 10 AP. You PVEers keep forgetting this.

Different choice =/= less choice.

Previously, the shop had 10 different toy bears, 10 different toy cats, 10 different toy dogs, and 10 different toy foxes.

Now, the shop has 1 toy bear, 1 toy panda, 1 toy cow, 1 toy horse, and even an extra animal type – 1 toy kangaroo! And you’re saying “hooray!” at “different” choices. GJ.

Panda’s beat all other stuffed toys hands down. New system’s better :-P

I’ve gone through most of the posts here and I have to say that it’s almost impossible to have dailies that would let players play anyway they wanted to while filling them, save having them be completely generic. The previous ones were much like this and so many complained that they lacked focus. sigh

Well after doing these for the last few days I have to say I like them more. It gets me out of my comfort zone and revisit some areas I haven’t been in for a long time. Plus it gives me a reason to take some of my other characters out and open up maps they haven’t. As for the zerg’y nature of the event completion tasks, at least they make them go fast and don’t seem as much a chore as they once were. Then I just move on and do other stuff.

I get the complaints of some here but I’m just not seeing the change as that bad. Needs more variety since they are rather focused and more random assignment based on players would be nice but over all the changes to dailies are okay.

Peace.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I’m honestly getting tired of your intricate excuses and word-twisting, Filaha. You’re succeeding in it, I admit, as other posters have already noted it. For now, I’ll just stop at an analogy for this thingie:

Filaha.1678:

12 choices is 12 choices. Personally, I can finally get 10 AP per day without having to leave WvW, whereas before I couldn’t. I now have more choice of how to get 10 AP. You PVEers keep forgetting this.

Different choice =/= less choice.

Previously, the shop had 10 different toy bears, 10 different toy cats, 10 different toy dogs, and 10 different toy foxes.

Now, the shop has 1 toy bear, 1 toy panda, 1 toy cow, 1 toy horse, and even an extra animal type – 1 toy kangaroo! And you’re saying “hooray!” at “different” choices. GJ.

There were 12 toys in the shop before, and there are 12 toys now. They’re just not the exact same toys. Also, before you bought each toy for $1 each. Now you get 10 toys for the $3 and each comes with a piece of candy too.

I’ve made my peace with the new dailies, and I’m now at the point where I prefer them to the old system. The only real choice I feel is now lacking is that I cannot always get the three tasks done while remaining solely in PvE and on a lower-level character.

Since the thread topic is “choice,” the newish system I despise is the trait one. I got a new character to 36 ankitten ow eligible to select a trait. My problem — since I am leveling the character primarily to test the trait acquisition system — that the Adept traits I’d be interested in, across all lines, are locked behind content that is too high level. Do a Mini-Dungeon (in an L55 area) in Sparkfly Fen? Complete exploration of Blazeridge Steppes? Defeat the L52 Champion Ooze in Bloodtide Coast? Kill the L60 Krait Witch in Timberline Falls? While I could just buy a trait, that should not be the preferred option. So, I am exercising a choice that would never have occurred to me under the old trait system — I’m leaving the darned slot empty.

IndigoSundown.5419:

While I could just buy a trait, that should not be the preferred option. So, I am exercising a choice that would never have occurred to me under the old trait system — I’m leaving the darned slot empty.

…but you do still have the option to buy it. So yeah, it’s an additional cost compared to before, but there’s a lot of things that are free now (retraiting, repairing, account-bound Ascended items) that weren’t before.

Think about the cost for the 7 traits you need for a build. Now think about the savings from sharing a single Ascended weapon between two toons.

TAKEN IN AGGREGATE AND IN CONTEXT the system is still incredibly more friendly for players with lots of toons.

The trait system we have now likely would have been more widely accepted had they introduced it at launch instead of almost two years later. It’s very similar to how skills were achieved in GW1.

Zylonite.5913:

I don’t understand why people go through all the efforts to make these long posts when ANet clearly never listens to anything and continues in their own path of destruction.

Yep, definitely going down a path of destruction with no hope for redemption. 100%, absolutely no possibility that they’re not listening because you’re wrong and they know what they’re doing better than any of you clowns. Now that, THAT is an absurd notion.

Ayrilana.1396:

The trait system we have now likely would have been more widely accepted had they introduced it at launch instead of almost two years later. It’s very similar to how skills were achieved in GW1.

Yep, that would’ve been great. I would’ve known to never like this game.

…Why did I not realize that the tiered utility skills were a warning sign. Whyyyyyyy.

Ayrilana.1396:

The trait system we have now likely would have been more widely accepted had they introduced it at launch instead of almost two years later. It’s very similar to how skills were achieved in GW1.

It’s similar, yes, but it’s not very similar. In GW1 you could rush to level 20 in a matter of hours thanks to Cantha. Once at level 20 you’re ready to take on every single zone, capping elites as you please. It takes much more time to level to 80 in GW2, where you are finally ready to take on everything.

Also, in GW1 you were only capping ONE SKILL. Traits affect all aspects of your combat, so this would be more like you having to unlock various levels of swordsmanship or strength in GW1, not just 1 elite skill.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I’m honestly getting tired of your intricate excuses and word-twisting, Filaha. You’re succeeding in it, I admit, as other posters have already noted it. For now, I’ll just stop at an analogy for this thingie:

Filaha.1678:

12 choices is 12 choices. Personally, I can finally get 10 AP per day without having to leave WvW, whereas before I couldn’t. I now have more choice of how to get 10 AP. You PVEers keep forgetting this.

Different choice =/= less choice.

Previously, the shop had 10 different toy bears, 10 different toy cats, 10 different toy dogs, and 10 different toy foxes.

Now, the shop has 1 toy bear, 1 toy panda, 1 toy cow, 1 toy horse, and even an extra animal type – 1 toy kangaroo! And you’re saying “hooray!” at “different” choices. GJ.

Incorrect analogy. There were not an equal amount of choices before. You’re misrepresenting the previous system by suggesting that.

Here’s a better analogy.
The shop had 8 toy bears, 2 toy cats, and 2 toy dogs.
Now there are 4 toy bears, 4 toy cats, and 4 toy dogs, so that dog lovers and cat lovers can have a bigger choice of toys while bear lovers still have a decent amount of bears to enjoy.

As a cat lover, this situation is clearly beneficial to me, no? As a cat and bear lover, this situation still allows me to get some bears and plenty of cats, too!

Also, to further the point, no matter whether you’re a bear, cat, or dog lover, you still have all your toys at home to play with and you get a toy for free each day, so you don’t necessarily have to buy more toys.

Lishtenbird.2814:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’ve read through plenty of these threads, stated facts, and get ignored because the points are valid irrefutable and there is no logic whatsoever on the opposing side of the argument.

Just to inform you, you get ignored because your posts are an example of demagogy, along with strawman arguments, deliberately missing strong counter-arguments, and aggression.

People here are often used to these forum tricks and don’t take them seriously.

There you go again putting in your earplugs and completely glossing over everything factual that I’m begging you to address.

You made direct statements about the new daily system in your original post.

I’m telling you with facts why that is outright wrong…. and you just pretend like you can’t read.

Btw, you need a dictionary. At no point in this thread have I ever used a strawman argument.

You are no different than a child putting his fingers in his ears and saying “la la la i cant hear you.”

Filaha.1678:

Incorrect analogy. There were not an equal amount of choices before. You’re misrepresenting the previous system by suggesting that.

Here’s a better analogy.
The shop had 8 toy bears, 2 toy cats, and 2 toy dogs.

No, there were no 8 pve-specific dailies. Most of the dailies were generic, and could have been as easily done in any of the three game modes – which you already know. So, now it’s you that are knowingly misrepresenting your case.

Look, we all know the real problem: you used to be able to get your dailies without even looking at them. You’d just get them doing whatever.

Now you have to make an active attempt to do content in the right place/whatever.

People are sad they can’t just get them by playing whatever they want.

None of us will bridge the gap between players who want credit for their dailies and APs just for playing for 30 minutes and players who think APs should actually require some effort.

Cormac.3871:

Buying traits: annoying for alts I agree, but I like the system. Maybe make it so that unlocking lower level traits is account wide would solve this problem.

Dailies I am half in agreement with. If they upped the number of dailies requires to four, but then added four universal achievements (dodges, kills etc.) I think a lot of the problems would be fixed. Also the four events in a map thing, whilst I appreciate what they are trying to do, is an exercise in frustration and cancels out the pleasure of getting to revisit an old map.

I agree that the Living World feels more static now, but I prefer the current system.

I totally agree about unlocking weapon skills and personal story.

Some excellent points……love your dailies idea!

Astralporing.1957:

No, there were no 8 pve-specific dailies. Most of the dailies were generic, and could have been as easily done in any of the three game modes – which you already know. So, now it’s you that are knowingly misrepresenting your case.

I agree that some of the dailies could be completed in any of the three game modes but not, “as easily,” as in PvE.

I have always found it much easier to generate large number of kills in PvE than in PvP for example. Getting 50 kills in PvE could be done in a very few minutes (or seconds in some cases).

Kill variety was similarly much easier to accomplish in PvE in my experience. There just isnt that large a variety of creature types in PvP, nor in WvW, compared to PvE.

Gathering was much easier in PvE or WvW than in PvP.

Rezzing has been, in my experience, generally much easier to complete in PvE except in that rare case when two zergs collide in WvW. I could generally complete all of my rezzes in a very few minutes in PvE by visiting an area where I know there are always large numbers of dead NPCs.

Again, I don’t disagree that some, perhaps even many, of the old dailies could be completed in PvP and WvW, but certainly not as easily as in PvE. On top of the above mentioned points there are no players trying to gank you while you are gathering, rezzing, etc in PvE and players are generally much more difficult to kill than are mobs.

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Incorrect analogy. There were not an equal amount of choices before. You’re misrepresenting the previous system by suggesting that.

Here’s a better analogy.
The shop had 8 toy bears, 2 toy cats, and 2 toy dogs.

No, there were no 8 pve-specific dailies. Most of the dailies were generic, and could have been as easily done in any of the three game modes – which you already know. So, now it’s you that are knowingly misrepresenting your case.

Gathering could have been easily done in PVP? Daily Fractals? Daily Story Dungeon? Personal Story? (Region) Killer? Costume Brawl? Kill Variety? Puzzle Jumper? Aquatic Slayer? Event Mentor?

Heck, the only one of those that could have been done in WvW without going significantly out of your way was Gathering, and even then you had to stop what you were doing and hope you didn’t get jumped while picking flowers.

That’s why I lumped in 8 “PVE” achievements. Because there are many that are simply not achievable in WVW or PVP, making it frequently impossible to get 10 AP in PVP/WVW without leaving them.

timmyf.1490:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While I could just buy a trait, that should not be the preferred option. So, I am exercising a choice that would never have occurred to me under the old trait system — I’m leaving the darned slot empty.

…but you do still have the option to buy it. So yeah, it’s an additional cost compared to before, but there’s a lot of things that are free now (retraiting, repairing, account-bound Ascended items) that weren’t before.

Think about the cost for the 7 traits you need for a build. Now think about the savings from sharing a single Ascended weapon between two toons.

TAKEN IN AGGREGATE AND IN CONTEXT the system is still incredibly more friendly for players with lots of toons.

I guess you chose to disregard the part where I said I was testing the trait acquisition system.

I’ll stand by the statement. Since the goals of changing the system were (stated) “To encourage experimentation…” and, “Promoting the consumption of existing content,” (unstated, but apparent) any aspect of the system that discourages experimentation (which trait earning does) and which encourages ignoring the traits when one reaches the point in leveling at which one could slot one is objectively bad.

Since I’ve spent zero gold on Ascended and I am not going to, Account Bound Ascended has not saved me anything. If ‘gold sink’ was the reason the system exists then they’re doing it wrong and there should be no “earn via play” option. If this system as it exists is a gold sink, then the rationale behind it would have to be, “Let’s make earning traits in game as unlikely and annoying as possible to encourage the coin sink.”

timmyf.1490:

None of us will bridge the gap between players who want credit for their dailies and APs just for playing for 30 minutes and players who think APs should actually require some effort.

Well, if it’s effort they want, they must be grinding their teeth in frustration at all the free log in rewards being handed out recently.

Manasa Devi.7958:

timmyf.1490:

None of us will bridge the gap between players who want credit for their dailies and APs just for playing for 30 minutes and players who think APs should actually require some effort.

Well, if it’s effort they want, they must be grinding their teeth in frustration at all the free log in rewards being handed out recently.

Yeah, going from some of the crosstalk I hear sometimes? There’s a lot of that too. Of course, there is a point I’m fast approaching where I just want to not bother talking with other people because saying I like anything seems to be tantamount to me wanting to take away their guns. I mean, fun.

I was actually trying to point out the hypocrisy of some people who in one breath call it lazy that we could gain a handful of AP through normal play with the previous daily implementation but applaud the new log in rewards and point at those as the answer to all our woes.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was actually trying to point out the hypocrisy of some people who in one breath call it lazy that we could gain a handful of AP through normal play with the previous daily implementation but applaud the new log in rewards and point at those as the answer to all our woes.

That’s not hypocrisy, though. The point is that if you want to be lazy and just get rewards for doing what you were going to do regardless, you already are being rewarded for just doing what you were going to do regardless.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was actually trying to point out the hypocrisy of some people who in one breath call it lazy that we could gain a handful of AP through normal play with the previous daily implementation but applaud the new log in rewards and point at those as the answer to all our woes.

Hmmm. Hard to reconcile, yes. Not sure if I’d go so far as to say it was “hypocrisy” though. There are similar examples to reasoning which makes no sense when looked at as “A and B” but start to make more sense when you look at it more broadly.

Personally, starting off with the log in rewards would have been better than the Dailies. We could have avoided retooling the darn things four (at least) times between then and now trying to satisfy players.

It’s the separation of those rewards from Daily Achievements which I think is the positive step. Or at least the positive step for the segment of players who would complain about being “forced” to do them so they could get Laurels.

Filaha.1678:

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was actually trying to point out the hypocrisy of some people who in one breath call it lazy that we could gain a handful of AP through normal play with the previous daily implementation but applaud the new log in rewards and point at those as the answer to all our woes.

That’s not hypocrisy, though. The point is that if you want to be lazy and just get rewards for doing what you were going to do regardless, you already are being rewarded for just doing what you were going to do regardless.

Yes, it is hypocrisy. And it’s not true. I’m not being rewarded for doing what I was going to do regardless. I’m being rewarded for logging in. I can log out, and not do what I was going to do, and I already have the reward. The actual play after the log in is more unrewarding than ever.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was actually trying to point out the hypocrisy of some people who in one breath call it lazy that we could gain a handful of AP through normal play with the previous daily implementation but applaud the new log in rewards and point at those as the answer to all our woes.

Hmmm. Hard to reconcile, yes. Not sure if I’d go so far as to say it was “hypocrisy” though. There are similar examples to reasoning which makes no sense when looked at as “A and B” but start to make more sense when you look at it more broadly.

Personally, starting off with the log in rewards would have been better than the Dailies. We could have avoided retooling the darn things four (at least) times between then and now trying to satisfy players.

It’s the separation of those rewards from Daily Achievements which I think is the positive step. Or at least the positive step for the segment of players who would complain about being “forced” to do them so they could get Laurels.

Small comfort to the people who couldn’t care less about the laurels because they already have hundreds sitting there in the idle hope there’s ever going to be more stuff to spend them on.