Guild Wars 2

Thank you Gaile!!!!!

Thank you Gaile for the clarification and not having to feel bad about reporting people now as it was the proper thing to do in the first place.

Yup this is awesome. Good work A-net.

Wonderful. Thank you.

I knew if we looked, The Holy Gaile would provide. ^^

Clear and straightforward. Thanks Gaile.

Thankyou, the LFG precursor sellers were getting a bit overwhelming.

Bout time some clarification on what’s permitted and what isn’t is posted.

Much appreciated.

Thank you so much for finally getting the message across clearly and precisely!

Gaile, thanks so much for forwarding those details.

Secondary question, though.
Since group-selling (taxis/paths/dungeons) are confirmed as legit, are there policies in place about how to handle scams/griefing? Or is that still very much “buyer beware” for those willing to buy/sell LFG spots?

jesusdebeauport.7901:

Is this a way to prevent players to trade? Is “trade between players”’s a feature that we will see one day or you absolutely want us to sell by the trading post and always lose 15%?

Always use the trading post. It was designed as a replacement for player-to-player trading.

Rauderi.8706:

Gaile, thanks so much for forwarding those details.

Secondary question, though.
Since group-selling (taxis/paths/dungeons) are confirmed as legit, are there policies in place about how to handle scams/griefing? Or is that still very much “buyer beware” for those willing to buy/sell LFG spots?

From what I have read in the past it is indeed “buyer beware”. If you get scammed you can report the person but you won’t get any gold back from said scam. The scammer may be suspended or banned. I could be wrong on this but having followed such topics for some time this is how I recall it.

A rare clear policy statement

+1, hope for more

that is good change arena net; Gaile

I’m happy to see this. I’ve been reporting people for this because I assumed it was against the rules, but it’s nice to see confirmation. Thank you!

Gaile Gray.6029:

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group

Glad this was included as I was wondering if this was frowned upon by ANet.

While I have never done this in GW2 I made gold as a runner in gw1 and would have loved the having an LFG Tool to advertise my services and attract customers. Although having a friend go server to server finding customers while I ran did well enough.

I found it clear enough when John answered, but that you so much for providing an answer for the ones that were confused by John!

I think this thread is a good candidate for being stickied.

Looks like the news already hit the GW2 Reddit page, there is a thread there. I encourage everyone to spread this information in a friendly manner so those thinking about using the LFG to sell or trade are aware that it is against the rules. It might save some people from getting infracted in the event they didn’t know.

Gaile Gray.6029:

The LFG (Looking for Group) Tool is intended to be used to help put together a group to enjoy game content, such as Open World, Fractals of the Mists, or PvP. Over the last several weeks players have expressed increased concern about abuse of the LFG Tool as a growing number of individuals have begun using the LFG Tool to advertise the sale of in-game items.

Clearly, if a group-formation tool is flooded with item sales and trade messages, it will be difficult for players to use it for its intended purpose. Beyond that, trades and sales initiated in the tool are at high risk for scams. While our Customer Support Team will take action on the accounts of players who engage in scams and other disallowed activities, they generally will not be able to replace items of players who fall victim to these unscrupulous individuals.

Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes. Doing so will result in an account infraction.

You can help us reduce the spam and refocus the tool by reporting individuals who are misusing the LFG Tool. Simply click on the name of that player in your chat window, right click, choose “Report,” and then choose “LFG System Abuse.” With your help we’ll be able to keep the LFG Tool clear for your use in forming groups.

Curious, will the reports lead to anything more than the gentle wrist slap that people who have been abusing the LFG tool to grief people and steal dungeons have gotten?

Sorry… don’t mean to hate on ya Gaile, just very disheartening seeing people walking around Lions Arch who have gotten away with griefing dozens of people over quite a period of time and even having Chris Cleary post that he was “dealt with”.

And if that’s the kind of treatment you get for abusing the LFG, what is there to fear?

What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”?

Seka.5647:

What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”?

I was thinking of asking this question earlier, but then I realised that people also sell portals to JP chests too. Both are fairly similar when it comes down to it and considering paid JP ports aren’t mentioned above as an infraction, I’d assume that resource instance is ok too. Both are similar in the fact that they reward you with loot (that is affected by RNG in terms of quality and/or quantity).

I think it’s very cheeky though… if somebody needs to mine the home instance nodes, I’d happily let them in for free.

It’s great to see that questions are actually being answered on these forums. However as someone, who unlike the majority of players has actually read the EULA/ToS I’m incredibly concerned about how this is being handled. Gaile’s post makes it sound like this policy goes into effect immediately. But the thing is, when people accepted the user agreement for this game, this was not listed as a bannable offense. I hope ArenaNet at least updates their legal documents before they start banning players for this- though it wouldn’t be unlike them.

I interpret it as this. If you are using the LFG tool to try to form a group, no matter how many players, to participate in game play with you, you are safe. If you are selling that part of your group you are safe as long as you uphold your end of the deal. If you are using the LFG tool to sell, trade, or buy items then it is a violation. Using the TP to sell is a violation and was made very clear by Gaile.

NA LFG is starting to feel the difference already, have not noticed anymore item sellers yet.

Power.2957:

It’s great to see that questions are actually being answered on these forums. However as someone, who unlike the majority of players has actually read the EULA/ToS I’m incredibly concerned about how this is being handled. Gaile’s post makes it sound like this policy goes into effect immediately. But the thing is, when people accepted the user agreement for this game, this was not listed as a bannable offense. I hope ArenaNet at least updates their legal documents before they start banning players for this- though it wouldn’t be unlike them.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

Despite our best efforts to detail the different sections with specific examples, there will always be areas that will ultimately be handled on a per incident basis by the Guild Wars 2 Customer Service Team. Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that NCSOFT may make changes to the provisions of this agreement at any time and that Section headings in this agreement are for purposes of convenience only."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

We reserve the right, in our sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these Rules of Conduct at any time.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-conduct-breaches-outcomes/

We reserve the right, in our sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these Guild Wars 2 Conduct Breaches and Outcomes at any time. All determinations under or related to this document will be made by us in our sole and absolute discretion.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Power.2957:

It’s great to see that questions are actually being answered on these forums. However as someone, who unlike the majority of players has actually read the EULA/ToS I’m incredibly concerned about how this is being handled. Gaile’s post makes it sound like this policy goes into effect immediately. But the thing is, when people accepted the user agreement for this game, this was not listed as a bannable offense. I hope ArenaNet at least updates their legal documents before they start banning players for this- though it wouldn’t be unlike them.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

Despite our best efforts to detail the different sections with specific examples, there will always be areas that will ultimately be handled on a per incident basis by the Guild Wars 2 Customer Service Team. Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that NCSOFT may make changes to the provisions of this agreement at any time and that Section headings in this agreement are for purposes of convenience only."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

We reserve the right, in our sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these Rules of Conduct at any time.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-conduct-breaches-outcomes/

We reserve the right, in our sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these Guild Wars 2 Conduct Breaches and Outcomes at any time. All determinations under or related to this document will be made by us in our sole and absolute discretion.

Yes and my point still stands that I hope they adjust their documents to mention it explicitly before blindsiding a lot of players.

They don’t have to as posted above. Like you I read the EULA stuff, not many do. Changing it will not get the message to most players because most players don’t bother to read it. However, based on the EULA and what I posted Anet does not have to change it. People that violate the LFG rules can be suspended or banned and they won’t have a leg to stand on if they try to fight it.

As I posted a bit back in this thread, the best thing we can do is spread the word in game that using the LFG tool to sell is a violation. The in game word spreads faster than some legal documents 99% of people don’t bother to read.

Lazaar.9123:

Power.2957:

Yes and my point still stands that I hope they adjust their documents to mention it explicitly before blindsiding a lot of players.

They created the game, they create the rules. Putting “subject to change” is extremely common practice.

I think you’ll understand the point of my post when you see a hundred threads show up in the support section of the forum complaining about getting banned for selling items on the LFG. Common practice or not it doesn’t make it any more clear and there will be a lot of rage if they don’t update it accordingly.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Rauderi.8706:

Gaile, thanks so much for forwarding those details.

Secondary question, though.
Since group-selling (taxis/paths/dungeons) are confirmed as legit, are there policies in place about how to handle scams/griefing? Or is that still very much “buyer beware” for those willing to buy/sell LFG spots?

Unfortunately, CS is seldom able to get a clear view on scams of this type. Tracking who agreed to what, and who promised to provide this service or that service is difficult to verify, especially when some of the arrangements are made or finalized outside the game (on Vent, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc.)

So every transaction of this nature is simply, by necessary, considered “Buyer and/or seller beware.” If the team is able to verify that a scam took place, they may be able to act upon the account of the scammer, but that would not involve returning lost items or currency or the fulfillment of the player-to-player “contract.”

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: TP fees are my insurance, as a player. They’re my protection as both a buyer and seller. Dodging fees might sounds attractive, in theory, but I’ve seen too many nasty outcomes to even consider doing trades or sales without using the game system that was built specifically to support those transactions.

Well since you’re taking time to answer some questions does lfg abuse extend to guild recruitment messages? It’s very annoying to see, although not as potentially sinister as grey market selling.

Power.2957:

I think you’ll understand the point of my post when you see a hundred threads show up in the support section of the forum complaining about getting banned for selling items on the LFG. Common practice or not it doesn’t make it any more clear and there will be a lot of rage if they don’t update it accordingly.

Nope sorry, this statement alone in the EULA/ToS clears NCsoft and ArenaNet to enforce the rules as they see fit without having to update their legal documents.

Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.

It doesn’t matter though, as I said. Most people don’t even read the EULA/ToS they agreed to. If someone gets suspended or banned for abusing the LFG tool they won’t have a case by pleading ignorance. I look forward to those “hundreds of threads” in the support forum so I can link them to this one.

Thanks for the clarification, Gaile.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.

I’m not going to nitpick because I’m as much against the trade LFGs as everyone else but the “sellers”. But technically, that highlighted policy bit also applies to trades; because they’re essentially forming a group too…

While we’re on topic of the LFG tool; could you please forward a concern that the category “Open world content” which really should hold the LFG ads pertaining to Living World or open world story content has become a “fall-back” for everyone advertising for groups.

It’s really pointless when I see ads in “open world content” stating “P1”…

Which means nothing to me when I’m standing in Silverwastes or Dry Top looking for a group in an instance going for Breach or T6 Dry Top. That “P1” doesn’t even state which dungeon it’s for…

Can you please cleanup the LFG categories, or at least make the Advertising a bit more detailed in that you choose a category for your ad?

May this please be clarified. Say we are to start with this bolded policy which seems to be the core of the original posting.

‘Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.’

This seems somewhat vague, Where do concepts like these fit in : ferrying to maps for either SW or Teq, offering/selling ports to badges or jumping puzzles as these are not in the intended use of forming groups of players to play with (nor is selling dungeon paths but that does not seem to bother). Also guild recruitement in LFG, is that an acceptable use in the object of forming a group of players ?

Hello Gaile.

Thank you very much for the clarification ! I will make sure to report those when I see them.

People trying to sell items outside of the TP cause several problems: scams, chat spam, LFG spam and so on. Don’t you (Anet) think that selling items aside of the TP is akin to an exploit (though not using a bug per se) since it tries to bypass an intented game mechanics: the TP fees ? Don’t you think it would be a good move to stamp any item trade outside of the TP (as well as any ingame advertisement for such tactics) as prohibited by the EULA/could conduct rules ?

This would then allow us players to report you all these sellers/buyers wherever they show up to help you stop them from spamming other parts of the game (map chat especially). This would also go a great length to prevent scams. It would not prevent people to agree on sales using other out-of-game media (ex: TS/vent/mumble for a trade between two guildies), but it would then be their sole responsability and still would considerably limit the exposure ingame anyway.

So keep doing what I’ve already been doing. Got it.

In the german forum we got an answer about advertising guilds in LFG-tool.

RamonDomke (German Community Manager): “Ist nicht gestattet.”

Translation: Is not permitted.

Link: https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Missbrauch-der-LFG-Funktion/first#post423841

Edit: Add Link to Ramon’s post.

Incoming lfg party descriptions in tool
“Forming a group and also ‘selling Twilight’ "

antonbalboa.7280:

Incoming lfg party descriptions in tool
“Forming a group and also ‘selling Twilight’ "

Would still be a violation.

Gaile Gray, one more final question that I am sure alot of people have pertaining to this issue as well because I am DYING to find out myself. Since a guild is a group of individuals that do things together, is it possible or a violation to recruit for guilds in the lfg tool via openworld content or even in other sections if it describes what our guild does? Can we also link our guild websites or posts in there? If it eliminates flood from map chats then I’m quite sure we could at least make a guild recruitment option in the lfg tool or allow this yes? Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.

btw, we miss the frog

@ Lithril Ashwalker.6230

It is not permitted to use the LFG-tool for guild advertising. (See my previous post)

In the german forum we got an answer about advertising guilds in LFG-tool.

RamonDomke (German Community Manager): “Ist nicht gestattet.”

Translation: Is not permitted.

Link: https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Missbrauch-der-LFG-Funktion/first#post423841

I was wondering if its griefing to join the item seller and disband the lfg then to get it off the list

Linken.6345:

I was wondering if its griefing to join the item seller and disband the lfg then to get it off the list

Why don’t you just join/whisper them and tell them that it’s against the rules and they risk being punished? Point them towards this thread on the forums if they don’t believe you.

Disbanding is unlikely to prevent them from trying again and making a new LFG ad…

If you can’t be bothered to kindly explain it to them, just report them.

Dondarrion.2748:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our policy: Players may use the LFG Tool only for the formation of a group.

I’m not going to nitpick because I’m as much against the trade LFGs as everyone else but the “sellers”. But technically, that highlighted policy bit also applies to trades; because they’re essentially forming a group too…

While we’re on topic of the LFG tool; could you please forward a concern that the category “Open world content” which really should hold the LFG ads pertaining to Living World or open world story content has become a “fall-back” for everyone advertising for groups.

It’s really pointless when I see ads in “open world content” stating “P1”…

Which means nothing to me when I’m standing in Silverwastes or Dry Top looking for a group in an instance going for Breach or T6 Dry Top. That “P1” doesn’t even state which dungeon it’s for…

Can you please cleanup the LFG categories, or at least make the Advertising a bit more detailed in that you choose a category for your ad?

The ones that say p1 in open world are lazy or made a mistake, but don’t want to risk getting locked out of LFG just to fix it.. There are clear cut dungeon sections.

Dungeon sellers are selling a spot in a group to do content. The content they do doesn’t last very long but it’s content nonetheless.

Sellers or Buyers of items are not forming groups to do content. So it is not permitted to post an LFG with the intent of finding a buyer or seller.

Gaile Gray.6029:

* Advertising an access portal is not allowed.

Does that include selling dungeons, jumping puzzles, etc.?
And what if you port for free and accept donations?

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Advertising an access portal is not allowed.

Do taxis to specific instances (Teq/TT/SW/DTOP) count as access portals?

Crell.6401:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Advertising an access portal is not allowed.

Do taxis to specific instances (Teq/TT/SW/DTOP) count as access portals?

You’re advertising for a group event where you have an entire map working towards a specific goal. That’s a little different than selling access to your home instance.