Guild Wars 2

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

The precursor drop rate or lack thereof is the main gold sink in GW2 and the number one method of keeping players gold poor to generate gem sales. Forgive me if I feel cheated by Anet. This isn’t a FTP game, a box price game that wasn’t supposed to act like one.

How is the precursor drop rate a gold sink?

Low drop rate forces players to use the Mystic Forge to get one. The mystic forge destroys 4 items while retuning one.

That’s not a gold sink at all. The gold was passed from one player to another to buy those 4 items in the first place. It doesn’t take gold from the economy at all, just redistributes it.

When those items are destroyed they are taken out of the game. Whether you use currency to buy rares or exotics or craft them is not the point.

Price per rare x 4 per forge x 5 for an average chance at an exotic which costs less than the sum of the rares used to forge it (especially with the new change to the forge in which you can actually get a sub 80 exo even when using all level 80 rares) this is a gold sink. Meaning it removes gold and items which have tradable value from the game.

Destroying items doesn’t remove gold.

Removing gold removes gold.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Destroying items doesn’t remove gold.

Removing gold removes gold.

The sky is blue because it’s blue.

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

If I own 4 paintings and light them on fire….

But before – and after – you get to the precursor, the TP sucks a great amount of gold in the process. 15 percent of each precursor sale. Which is a LOT. Oh and of course, if you buy the rares from the TP, someone listed them there at a nice 15 percent tax as well. Precursor forging sucks a great deal of gold from the economy.

But yea, precursors are nuts now. Their prices are above any amount of “acceptable” now. And I own 2 legendaries (bolt and the dreamer), I’m not just “whining” about stuff I don’t have. Prices are nuts.

Prices are rising because of the change to Mystic Forge and how it can now grant an Exotic lvl 76 – 80 when you throw in lvl 80 rares.

This has scared many of the regulars from gambling away like they used to causing the supply to drop significantly.
To add the above problem, Wardrobe has added the rush for players to gather all the skins that includes precursors/legendaries leading to a higher than normal demand.
Then to top that off, legendaries are now account bound and can be moved between characters, which is a positive change but simply made them even more desirable.

Precursor crafting will come in the game and it would be great if a dev gave us a guranteed date, that will bring the prices back to 500-800g which were more reasonable.

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Destroying items doesn’t remove gold.

Removing gold removes gold.

The sky is blue because it’s blue.

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

If I own 4 paintings and light them on fire….

Let’s say that there’s 100 people in an economy with 10 gold each, meaning there’s 1,000 gold in the system. Let’s say that each person also owns 4 lvl80 rare swords. (400 rare swords.)

If 50 people throw their swords into the mystic forge and get back a single lvl80 rare sword back, how much gold did the system lose?

Edit: Bonus question: how much was each sword worth (assuming they were the exact same sword) before and after the 50 mystic forge attempts?

Double Edit: The sky is blue because of Raleigh Scattering.

The supply has to be increased to lower the prices. The current prices are not reasonable. Without getting an extremely lucky drop, the only way most people can make that kind of money is to buy it through the gem store, which is largelt responsible for huge inflation, or spend countless hours playing the trading post (Which, I understand, is considered frowned upon). The prices of everything else are also going up because of it. Obviously T6 mats, but the cheapest rare level 80 staff now is over 64s. That’s up over 20s from before the 15th which equates to a hell of a lot of gold, when many people burn through 1000s before ever seeing a precursor…if at all before rage-quitting the game.

ZilentNight.5089:

Prices are rising because of the change to Mystic Forge and how it can now grant an Exotic lvl 76 – 80 when you throw in lvl 80 rares.

Wait, 4 80s doesn’t mean an 80 exo when it drops like it used to? That’s bad, and plain chinsy considering how rare they drop to begin with. ANet really is horrible at rewarding their players. On the other hand, they have screwing their players down pat!!

Mother always said, pick something you’re good at…

Mystic Forge actually stops gold being taken out of the game. Because if those 4 items still existed, they might be sold over and over on the TP, taking 15% of the price out of the economy each time they’re sold

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Destroying items doesn’t remove gold.

Removing gold removes gold.

The sky is blue because it’s blue.

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

If I own 4 paintings and light them on fire….

Let’s say that there’s 100 people in an economy with 10 gold each, meaning there’s 1,000 gold in the system. Let’s say that each person also owns 4 lvl80 rare swords. (400 rare swords.)

If 50 people throw their swords into the mystic forge and get back a single lvl80 rare sword back, how much gold did the system lose?

Edit: Bonus question: how much was each sword worth (assuming they were the exact same sword) before and after the 50 mystic forge attempts?

Double Edit: The sky is blue because of Raleigh Scattering.

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

I will defeat your arguement using the metrics for rare greatswords as the component for our legendary theory crafting. The gold values are irrelevant to this lesson.

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

Sentinel’s Krait Slayer ingredients all bought on the TP.
200 mithril greatsword blades – 15% of each purchase is removed from the economy.
200 mithril greatsword hilts – 15% of each purchase is removed from the economy.
200 sentinel’s mithril imbued inscriptions – 15% of each purchase is removed from the economy.

And we forge!

Aww crap we got nothing and at today’s prices that cost us 30 silver x 200 or 60 gold. But hey, that means another player is 60 gold richer right? No… Because 15% or 9 gold of that 60 gold is taken out of the economy by the TP. But at least we have something for the 60 gold we spent trying to get our precursor right? Only if you got exotics and only if you then sold them. With the changes to the mystic forge you now have a chance to get sub 80 exotics that are worth less, which means they actually sucked more gold out of your pockets while you failed to get a precursor.

Now if we don’t get a precursor for say a year and we’ve dumped our gold into the pit of dispair (much better name than the toilet) how do we complete our legendary? If only there was a way to get more gold fast…. MasterCard.

And that is how the forge is profitable… For Anet.

Aiden, so you’ve changed your argument to the 15% tax being the money taken out, not the value of the destroyed items.

Good. Because that’s the only logical argument. Gold sink because of 15% tax – fine. Gold sink because of items being destroyed – not fine.

Lankybrit.4598:

Aiden, so you’ve changed your argument to the 15% tax being the money taken out, not the value of the destroyed items.

Good. Because that’s the only logical argument. Gold sink because of 15% tax – fine. Gold sink because of items being destroyed – not fine.

Both are valid. My point is not the macro but the micro economy. The system is designed to bankrupt individual players who chase a precursor to entice them to use plastic to buy gems.

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

In other words, let’s say instead of mystic forging those krait greatswords, you sold them on the TP. The 9 gold is still gone, plus a touch more due to TP fees for listing/selling those crafted greatswords.

Edit:Let’s also go back and look at a previous quote:

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

Would you say that the opposite is true, then? “Creating assets which have value also adds the gold to an individuals portfolio”?

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

In other words, let’s say instead of mystic forging those krait greatswords, you sold them on the TP. The 9 gold is still gone, plus a touch more due to TP fees for listing/selling those crafted greatswords.

Edit:Let’s also go back and look at a previous quote:

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

Would you say that the opposite is true, then? “Creating assets which have value also adds the gold to an individuals portfolio”?

Absolutely. If you create only to sell then you win.

Aidenwolf.5964:

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

The greater economy is always relevant. If you only look at the individual’s gold amount, then you could say giving gold to a friend would be a gold sink.

“Hey buddy, here’s 9 gold!” There. You just destroyed 9 gold.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Absolutely. If you create only to sell then you win.

Okay, then. Let’s just say Spark has a current sale value of 1,000 gold (rounding off). ANet, realizing that people have been demanding precursors, graciously mails everyone a “random precursor box”, however, it’s bugged (what isn’t these days?) and everyone pulls out a Spark from their random precursor box. How much gold did ANet introduce into the economy? How much gold did you earn by opening this box?

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

The greater economy is always relevant. If you only look at the individual’s gold amount, then you could say giving gold to a friend would be a gold sink.

“Hey buddy, here’s 9 gold!” There. You just destroyed 9 gold.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Absolutely. If you create only to sell then you win.

Okay, then. Let’s just say Spark has a current sale value of 1,000 gold (rounding off). ANet, realizing that people have been demanding precursors, graciously mails everyone a “random precursor box”, however, it’s bugged (what isn’t these days?) and everyone pulls out a Spark from their random precursor box. How much gold did ANet introduce into the economy? How much gold did you earn by opening this box?

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

Aidenwolf.5964:

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

In other words, you don’t have a good answer.

Rigged or not, the topic at hand is what a Gold Sink is. Creating/destroying materials/items doesn’t necessarily destroy or create gold. Actions like posting things on the TP, using Waypoints, buying stuff from vendors, that removes gold from the economy and is a Gold Sink.

Hey guys,I crafted Bolt,and only missing prec for inci,tho to get Zap,I spent 15,120 tokens,780g,and 2 million karma.Which got me nothing.Finally bought it for 300g via TP.
I feel your pain and I would like to participate in the “we love you” group for unlucky guys.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

In other words, you don’t have a good answer.

Rigged or not, the topic at hand is what a Gold Sink is. Creating/destroying materials/items doesn’t necessarily destroy or create gold. Actions like posting things on the TP, using Waypoints, buying stuff from vendors, that removes gold from the economy and is a Gold Sink.

In other words you asked a ridiculously hypothetical question that should it ever occur and Anet mailed every player in the game a precursor…. I’d be too busy crafting my legendary to answer.

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

The greater economy is always relevant. If you only look at the individual’s gold amount, then you could say giving gold to a friend would be a gold sink.

“Hey buddy, here’s 9 gold!” There. You just destroyed 9 gold.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Absolutely. If you create only to sell then you win.

Okay, then. Let’s just say Spark has a current sale value of 1,000 gold (rounding off). ANet, realizing that people have been demanding precursors, graciously mails everyone a “random precursor box”, however, it’s bugged (what isn’t these days?) and everyone pulls out a Spark from their random precursor box. How much gold did ANet introduce into the economy? How much gold did you earn by opening this box?

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

Well, the economy itself is not rigged. It’s functioning as well as could be expected given how poorly it’s maintained. The economy is, however, broken because ANet keeps messing with the supply without fully understanding the circumstances. This is more supply chain tampering. The first was when they killed ~35000 bot accounts all in one swoop. At first it seemed like a good idea, but then came the first round of massive price increases because the bots were no longer feeding the TP. Ultimately, all it meant for the average player was emptier zones and higher prices due to less stock going in to the TP. The gem to gold conversion allows for runaway inflation by placing a great deal of unchecked gold in to the economy allow people to whatever outrageous prices they want and some other fool with a big credit card will come along and pay for it..

The wardrobe now, also seemingly a great idea on the surface, but by making ascended and legendary skins account bound, it also greatly increases the demand for among the rarest items in the game as well as anything that can remotely be used to attain those items.

Would I play GW2 now if I were not already set up with two 80s with exo/asc gear and ~500g in the bank? Probably not. It has essentially become everything I’ve been trying to avoid with MMOs and what ANet said it would never become back in the early days. I stay now because I like the people in my guild and probably spend more time chatting than playing. Which will eventually get old too as more and more regulars drop off.

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

In other words, you don’t have a good answer.

Rigged or not, the topic at hand is what a Gold Sink is. Creating/destroying materials/items doesn’t necessarily destroy or create gold. Actions like posting things on the TP, using Waypoints, buying stuff from vendors, that removes gold from the economy and is a Gold Sink.

In other words you asked a ridiculously hypothetical question that should it ever occur and Anet mailed every player in the game a precursor…. I’d be too busy crafting my legendary to answer.

Ridiculousness is only meant to highlight the fault in your logic of associating the worth of an item to gold creation/destruction.

I could give a much more feasible situation, but you’d probably miss the point.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

In other words, you don’t have a good answer.

Rigged or not, the topic at hand is what a Gold Sink is. Creating/destroying materials/items doesn’t necessarily destroy or create gold. Actions like posting things on the TP, using Waypoints, buying stuff from vendors, that removes gold from the economy and is a Gold Sink.

In other words you asked a ridiculously hypothetical question that should it ever occur and Anet mailed every player in the game a precursor…. I’d be too busy crafting my legendary to answer.

Ridiculousness is only meant to highlight the fault in your logic of associating the worth of an item to gold creation/destruction.

I could give a much more feasible situation, but you’d probably miss the point.

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Strangely enough, since you’re the one asserting that item destruction equates to being a gold sink – which would Not the common definition of gold sink – I’d say that you’re the one typing the alphabet and claiming it’s poetry.

Edit: Wiki has entries for everything! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

In other words, you don’t have a good answer.

Rigged or not, the topic at hand is what a Gold Sink is. Creating/destroying materials/items doesn’t necessarily destroy or create gold. Actions like posting things on the TP, using Waypoints, buying stuff from vendors, that removes gold from the economy and is a Gold Sink.

In other words you asked a ridiculously hypothetical question that should it ever occur and Anet mailed every player in the game a precursor…. I’d be too busy crafting my legendary to answer.

Ridiculousness is only meant to highlight the fault in your logic of associating the worth of an item to gold creation/destruction.

I could give a much more feasible situation, but you’d probably miss the point.

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

There are ways to minimize waypoint costs and if TP fees are costing you so much that you’re losing money, you’re doing it wrong.

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Anything you do outside of selling on the trade post, or buying from npcs, is not a gold sink. Losing potential gold because you MFed rares instead of sold them is not a gold sink. That is you losing out on potential gold. A gold sink would be if it COST a gold to craft something, or to use the forge in addition to the materials already present. It doesnt. You’re attempting to create an argument by redefining terms to fit your argument.

It does not cost you anything to get a precursor out of the forge. You give up potential profit as an opportunity cost in exchange for a chance at a precursor. There’s a very important and distinct difference people need to mind.

Leamas.5803:

There was a long running thread (40 pages+) about account bound luck back in the winter of 2013, this was after the infamous Nov 2012 patch that heavily nerfed loot across the board. There was a lot of evidence that pointed to buggy RNG and account bound good/bad luck. I know I quit the game for nearly 7 months primarily because of bad drops. Even now, I don’t get great drops. No counting the automatic ones you get for temples, I MIGHT see a couple rares after an evening of farming Cursed Shore (30-40 porous bones from a single Plinx run though) and might see an exotic once every couple months.

There were a lot of theories going around from beng DPS based, to a bad RNG seed that favored certain accounts, to ANet giving luck preference to those who spend money in the gem store (Really, would you put it past them?). ANet closed the thread without any real explanation of why some people are so much more lucky than others. Again, far beyond that of what RNG should do. I’ve known people who stopped running dungeons and partying or just stopped playing because when party members ALWAYS got better loot it was just too disheartening. Even RNG, when properly implemented has a very predicable pattern and will create a bell curve when plotted. When you have someone who has 7 or 8 precursors with little or no effort compared to many others, the RNG is not working properly.

Exactly this about RNG and broken loots.

This is one of the very top problems to solve in GW2, but it seems that ANet doesn’t care at all.

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

Why can’t we convince you? The TP tax is on every transaction. It’s a gold sink. If you have 1000g that you spend trying to get a pre-cursor, you’ve given 850g to other players, and 150g is sunk. What would you do if you didn’t put them in the Mystic Forge? Flip them? Generating another 15% sink? Vendor them? For a pittance? The amount of gold taken out of the economy by forging them is infinitesimal.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Anything you do outside of selling on the trade post, or buying from npcs, is not a gold sink. Losing potential gold because you MFed rares instead of sold them is not a gold sink. That is you losing out on potential gold. A gold sink would be if it COST a gold to craft something, or to use the forge in addition to the materials already present. It doesnt. You’re attempting to create an argument by redefining terms to fit your argument.

It does not cost you anything to get a precursor out of the forge. You give up potential profit as an opportunity cost in exchange for a chance at a precursor. There’s a very important and distinct difference people need to mind.

0.0
Every item you destroy in the forge trying to get a precursor has a gold or a silver value. To say it isn’t costing anything to get a precursor is a little ridiculous so I’ll assume you mean that there isn’t a forge tax (please do not give them any ideas).

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

Why can’t we convince you? The TP tax is on every transaction. It’s a gold sink. If you have 1000g that you spend trying to get a pre-cursor, you’ve given 850g to other players, and 150g is sunk. What would you do if you didn’t put them in the Mystic Forge? Flip them? Generating another 15% sink? Vendor them? For a pittance? The amount of gold taken out of the economy by forging them is infinitesimal.

I’ve stated exactly what you said.

Oh my what’s going on in this thread? *grabs rule*

You two, now!

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

Ahh, I think we’ve got to the root of the problem. A gold sink takes money from the overall economy. You can’t just apply it to an individual, you have to look at the game economy as a whole.

Valento.9852:

Oh my what’s going on in this thread? *grabs rule*

You two, now!

When you argue for change you upset those who’ve profited from the system. As I said in my OP I couldn’t care less if you disagree that a change to precursor acquisition needs to happen and fast. I thank you all for your happy or angry or irrational posts!

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

Ahh, I think we’ve got to the root of the problem. A gold sink takes money from the overall economy. You can’t just apply it to an individual, you have to look at the game economy as a whole.

Welcome to understanding. I’ve only ever been speaking about the economy from an individual player’s perspective.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

Ahh, I think we’ve got to the root of the problem. A gold sink takes money from the overall economy. You can’t just apply it to an individual, you have to look at the game economy as a whole.

Welcome to understanding. I’ve only ever been speaking about the economy from an individual player’s perspective.

Why did you use the term Gold Sink then? A better term would have been ‘Waste of money’.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

Why can’t we convince you? The TP tax is on every transaction. It’s a gold sink. If you have 1000g that you spend trying to get a pre-cursor, you’ve given 850g to other players, and 150g is sunk. What would you do if you didn’t put them in the Mystic Forge? Flip them? Generating another 15% sink? Vendor them? For a pittance? The amount of gold taken out of the economy by forging them is infinitesimal.

I’ve stated exactly what you said.

The tax in the TP has a more important role than simply being a gold sink. It’s there to help give some stability, especially to very expensive items. Every time you post an item for sale, you lose 5% of the asking price. That’s 50G on a 1000G precursor for instance. This is the listing fee and comes out of your bank immediately at the time you post. The listing fee is there to discourage sellers from constantly one-upping each other. You think it’s bad now, things would be much worse without it. The other 10% comes off at the time of sale and is paid by the buyer. So 5% of a the sink is paid by the seller and 10% by the buyer. It’s not all that bad and is much akin to sales tax.

The one thing I like about the TP is that there is NO RNG!!! If you know how to do you can make money, albeit not very quickly unless you take big risks and/or big time commitment, but you are in control, not some stupid buggy RNG. ANet might mess with the supply chain and screw up prices, but the TP just is.

Now, let’s get this topic back on track. We’re supposed to be talking about how stupid precursors are to get now.

Leamas.5803:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

Why can’t we convince you? The TP tax is on every transaction. It’s a gold sink. If you have 1000g that you spend trying to get a pre-cursor, you’ve given 850g to other players, and 150g is sunk. What would you do if you didn’t put them in the Mystic Forge? Flip them? Generating another 15% sink? Vendor them? For a pittance? The amount of gold taken out of the economy by forging them is infinitesimal.

I’ve stated exactly what you said.

The tax in the TP has a more important role than simply being a gold sink. It’s there to help give some stability, especially to very expensive items. Every time you post an item for sale, you lose 5% of the asking price. That’s 50G on a 1000G precursor for instance. This is the listing fee and comes out of your bank immediately at the time you post. The listing fee is there to discourage sellers from constantly one-upping each other. You think it’s bad now, things would be much worse without it. The other 10% comes off at the time of sale and is paid by the buyer. So 5% of a the sink is paid by the seller and 10% by the buyer. It’s not all that bad and is much akin to sales tax.

The one thing I like about the TP is that there is NO RNG!!! If you know how to do you can make money, albeit not very quickly unless you take big risks and/or big time commitment, but you are in control, not some stupid buggy RNG. ANet might mess with the supply chain and screw up prices, but the TP just is.

Now, let’s get this topic back on track. We’re supposed to be talking about how stupid precursors are to get now.

Precursors over 1000 gold and not one word about the issue from Anet.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Precursors over 1000 gold and not one word about the issue from Anet.

There wont be any word from Anet is because THEY know, just as everyone else knows (and some people refuse to believe), the current price trends are because of demand from legendaries being account bound, as well as being a skin item. It’s also because there is no time limit of listings. Take spark for example. It has 12 listings that are 1250g and lower. Imagine 11 of them are bought. Assuming no new ones are listed, if someone buys that last “cheap” listing, the price immediately jumps to 1700g.
Is that 1700g the “new” price of spark? No, it isnt. That’s the new lowest listing, and likely a listing that has been sitting there for several months. It’s when new listings sit at that price mark and begin selling, that the price is established at that level. Right now 1200g is the “average” price of spark. Yet people will flip a kitten about it like they are now.

The precursor system is pathetic. All the material farming required is hard and tedious for a legendary, supposedly a journey which I am more than fine with I would choose to do it but I never will do because I will never be able to obtain a precursor . A precursor weapon that becomes legendary sounds grand but this precursor weapon is some random drop from anywhere with naff all lore with no means of realistically targeting it other than if you continuously put 4 weapons of the same type so I can get the one I want over and over again in a beyond extreme low chance RNG generator. What were they thinking and how has this continued to be the only was of obtaining this to date. Make it achievable with some kind of logical treasure trial or something. Or at least make it more easily RNG achievable from end game content like dungeons, wvw.

Wow. Just wow. There are some really stupid people posting here regarding gold sinks.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Wow. Just wow. There are some really stupid people posting here regarding gold sinks.

I’ll explain one last time what I mean when I mention gold sinks in this thread which is about the precursor situation. It’s pretty obvious so it should not be hard to follow. Disagree all you like.

When I mention gold sinks I am not referring to traditional gold out the economy taxes I only brought up the TP tax as an example of funds being taken out the player’s bank in response to a comment posted above.

I’m talking about the most expensive and for many of us seemingly impossible to acquire legendary precursors, and why it’s not a priority for Anet to fix the kitten thing because they need player’s to be gold poor and hunting a legendary.

Not all players go after legendaries but for those who do it’s brutal unless you’re very very lucky. This is by design obviously. I say that because they recognized over a year ago that players hated it, said they’d fix it, and then decided not to. Why? Because people who lose at the forge are poor. If you have a kitten ton of gold you don’t lose, you just have dry spells of RNG until you eventually succeed because you can afford to keep going.

Why is this by design? Because if you’ve lost all of your gold and rebuilt your stash and lost it over a long period of time maybe you cheat… Yes I said cheat. You use your credit card, buy gems, convert them to gold, and TP your precursor. Something that should’ve never been possible IMO.

Another reason to keep precursors expensive is because they want exos to be expensive and rares, and the materials that make both. High prices won’t hurt 10% of the players but it will hurt the bank accounts of new players and casuals and those who are still hunting a precursor who haven’t “cheated”.

Nerfing champion loot, DR, the speed clearing Nerf, all of these are undeniably designed to take gold out of players pockets. If you’re comfortable in exotics, or you’re already geared out, or crazy lucky, you won’t notice this at all. But the % of the player base who are chasing legendaries and have my kitten luck, notice it.

In my case it does Anet no good as I won’t change my gems to gold but the fact that they scrapped fixing our precursors and sell them in China for sub’s, says its all about the loot.

Aidenwolf.5964:

It’s pretty obvious so it should not be hard to follow. Disagree all you like.

If it was so obvious, how come it took you around 10 posts of debating with people to finally back yourself up to this explanation of what you meant:

When I mention gold sinks I am not referring to traditional gold out the economy taxes I only brought up the TP tax as an example of funds being taken out the player’s bank in response to a comment posted above.

Perhaps instead of attributing a new definition to a phrase that already has a commonly accepted meaning, you could use a more appropriate definition. I believe someone already suggested ‘bankrupt’ and another suggested ‘a waste of money’.

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

See, I didn’t need luck. You just needed to stop misusing phrases if you want to be able to communicate.

There are many more interesting and intelligent ways to create gold sinks than to frustrate your player base. I wouldn’t dream of converting gems to gold to get to a precursor. I guess we are all fools putting stuff in the forge

Valento.9852:

JCROY.5730:

hehehe.
Placed a buy order of 843 Gold on “the Legend”
Decided to withdraw that one cuz well..it took too long (yes..I am impatient)
Bought 20 Monsoons and 20 bramblethone for the insane amount of around 3G each
At the Mystic toilet on the 4th try…I got The Legend…so now I was overjoyed and salvaged the rest..
one happy bugger here!

I hate you so badly. :’(

sending some RNG love your way
Did it help?

ow btw…about throwing in rares/exotics…
Could it be true that throwing in “named” exotics raises the odds for getting a precursor ?
I noticed that when I throw in “normal” ones, I get mostly normals in return..but when I use named ones, I get back more named ones
Anyone else noticed this?

Kernave.5732:

There are many more interesting and intelligent ways to create gold sinks than to frustrate your player base. I wouldn’t dream of converting gems to gold to get to a precursor. I guess we are all fools putting stuff in the forge

The thing is though, some people win at RNG completely. A guildie has had NINE precursors drop in the last year or so. Two of those in a week after he quit playing for three months. (Edit: He came back, obviously)

I have spent 20g to get The Lover and maybe 60g to get The Hunter when I was bored and wanted to try it out. I was phenomenally lucky at the time and it gave me enough gold to start and finish Flameseeker Prophecies when I decided which one I wanted. Since starting on my second, Incinerator, probably dropped at least 800 daggers in and nothing (most crafted considering their price on the BLT now). The RNG anecdotes are just viable enough to keep people going back to the forge, and couple that with the abysmal drop rates…

If it meant less of this idiot RNG game for precursors, I’d gladly see the increase in WP/tool costs. Get armour repairs back, at least they were a gold sink that made sense. Now it’s just an annoying thing to click that has no detrimental function and has actually negated repair canisters. Assuming you don’t suck and die all the time in fractals.

Yes a streamer I follow has had like 80 precursors from the forge. There definitely are something lucky people. He’s currently on 8 legendary weapons. Fair play to them but the system is bonkers with that being the only legitimate way. RNG can be fun, rewarding and exciting if something is incredibly rare like farming bone dragon staffs in guild wars 1. But making people grind (time) to get items to put them in a forge (more time) then to get naff all out. It’s not fun and it’s not sensible.

Edit : Fractal weapons RNG is similar to my bone dragon staff example. I don’t mind doing fractals because I know it can drop and I get consolation in other loot. I can improve at the game, I make new friends ect

I got my 3rd precursor a day or so ago or a random mob in Cursed Shore

They’re still dropping. .-.