Guild Wars 2

Xeres.3724:

No. Getting the best gear should be an achievement or reward, not a given. My biggest pet peeve about gamers these days is they feel that just because they log into your game, everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. But actually put some effort into this? No. You can insert the typical reasons – lack of time, lack of desire to do what is required, etc. Sorry, that’s the way it goes – everywhere. Generally, you don’t get rewarded for doing nothing – unless you work for congress.

I think a lot of players’ problem with MMO games these days is that most of them follow the same pattern of grind and gear treadmill, where players with the most time always have an advantage over others via the grinded gear. A lot of us were delighted that GW2 promised to be different in that regard, just like GW1 is, a niche game that sets itself apart from the rest.

Of course if you spend a lot of time in a game, you will develop better skills than someone who only plays once a week or so, too. And in my opinion THAT is what should make you better and more successful than them. Real skill and experience, knowledge, tactics to think up strategies for tackling and mastering more difficult content. Not stats that automatically boost you and make you put out/resist more damage while you push the same buttons as before.
That’s just how 99% of all the MMORPGs out there work, and just because that’s a trend that has successfully established itself doesn’t mean that everybody who wants to play this genre has to like that idea at all.

In fact we were hoping for GW2 to give us a much desired change in approach and mentality, and it’s sad that it didn’t happen in the end. ;(

GW1 is very unique in offering tons and tons of skills from which you are required to make your own individual character build, there are no “talent trees” or whatever people might be used to from other games. And I don’t think that getting into that kind of gameplay and developing skillsets and builds that complement each other together with your teammates is any less challenging than grinding for a long time to obtain super gear. Quite the opposite – it requires brainpower and teamwork. Some of us just prefer to be challenged that way rather than by mere time sinks.

And yes, that aspect is what absolutely makes GW1 a MMO too, because you need to communicate and work together in order to be successful way more than in your standard treadmill/grind MMORPG where you go out and do repetitive things over and over again.
GW1 might be a niche game, but it’s definitely proven that this system provides a lot of long-term motivation for those who are looking for these priorities…more than any grind will ever do.

I assume that these players are also the majority of those who pre-ordered GW2 and are disappointed with this change of direction now. We have nowhere else to go but maybe back to GW1, because no other game out there successfully caters for our ideas of what a game should contain and be about.

At this point, I’d rather there be raids in the game with random ascended gear dropping. It’s better than the grind hell they’ve implemented.

I still like the bunny killing idea… 1 million bunny kills = 1 piece of ascended gear. Just spread it out over all the maps. Maybe add innocent crabs and such to the list for some variety. Overkill acheivement translates into ‘serial killer’ ascended gear.

*this is a joke, sort of….

runeblade.7514:

It is just a question to the public. I am not going to take sides here.

I am interested in your opinions.

dont matter if i give you an essay with examples of why not, these days and apparently some old community which comes from x game is used to get spoon-feed.

and the jealousy between players these days is even bigger, the way the think is ‘’if i dont want or cant get something, nobody should, they all should be equally to me because i dont want or cant get that pixel’’ and make excuses of why they dont want or cant.

so glad my MMO thoughts/experience comes from good old Lineage 2 times.

JemL.3501:

dont matter if i give you an essay with examples of why not, these days and apparently some old community which comes from x game is used to get spoon-feed.

and the jealousy between players these days is even bigger, the way the think is ‘’if i dont want or cant get something, nobody should, they all should be equally to me because i dont want or cant get that pixel’’ and make excuses of why they dont want or cant.

Whatever would be wrong with only having purely cosmetic items as grind-rewards then, like many of us are asking for and what we thought would be the case in this game as it was in GW1?

Players who love to grind and show off with the many hours they spent on getting something would still visibly stand out from the crowd like that just the same. They’d have the advantage of looking better than anyone else and I really don’t think that anybody would have a problem with that. They’d get a reward for their efforts without anyone else having anything taken away from them.

What we do have a problem with is that non-grinding people get punished for it. They get excluded from certain PvE content, they can’t be on par with others in WvW.

I’d rather turn this around and ask the pro-gear progression faction why they feel they need those extra stats and power for their ego, and why looking flashier than everyone else wouldn’t be good enough to keep them motivated.

Xeres.3724:

No. Getting the best gear should be an achievement or reward, not a given. My biggest pet peeve about gamers these days is they feel that just because they log into your game, everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. But actually put some effort into this? No. You can insert the typical reasons – lack of time, lack of desire to do what is required, etc. Sorry, that’s the way it goes – everywhere. Generally, you don’t get rewarded for doing nothing – unless you work for congress.

Who said anything about not putting in time. Easy doesnt necessarily mean faster. To me, it means getting it for doing things you love.

GW1: you change your build from area to area in order to tackle the challenges that you are going to be facing. This including selecting appropriately statted gear for your build. This gear was easy to obtain, but you still need to make trade-offs. Do you want more armor, more attributes, resistance against specific elements, more energy?

This is much more exciting to me than: you grind to get higher-stat gear to tackle the challenges that you are going to be facing.

Yes, because the game then becomes about the players skill. And all content is accessible to everyone.

Merthax.5172:

GW1: you change your build from area to area in order to tackle the challenges that you are going to be facing. This including selecting appropriately statted gear for your build. This gear was easy to obtain, but you still need to make trade-offs. Do you want more armor, more attributes, resistance against specific elements, more energy?

This is much more exciting to me than: you grind to get higher-stat gear to tackle the challenges that you are going to be facing.

I follow this idea too.

Merthax.5172:

GW1: you change your build from area to area in order to tackle the challenges that you are going to be facing. This including selecting appropriately statted gear for your build. This gear was easy to obtain, but you still need to make trade-offs. Do you want more armor, more attributes, resistance against specific elements, more energy?

This is much more exciting to me than: you grind to get higher-stat gear to tackle the challenges that you are going to be facing.

One of the things I loved about GW1. Most of the time you couldn’t just get the best gear and lolfaceroll the content. You actually had to use your brain when it came to skills and stats and how they relate to a particular encounter.

DegoLocc.5976:

aliksyian.7642:

Gear = time spent.
Gear =/= talent. Gear =/= skill.

In order to have a level playing field for players from “24/7 no sleep” to “a few hours a week”, gear should not be a factor in success.

Would you play chess if the other guy got three queens, simply because he’d been playing longer? (Some of you are probably saying ‘Yes, I love a challenge!’. Somehow I doubt you’d play that way for very long)

Level playing fields are boring. Go underdogs!
Variables make any battle more interesting.

Pffft, because anyone that so desperately wants a new stat tier in this game to chase after wants to play an underdog. Come on, you want the stats to be the top dog. that’s why equality does not satisfy you.

@Velkyn.5168: let me tell you something i bet i can outlvl, grind, progress, etc any so called ’’casual’’ in one hour race between him and me.

@Merthax.5172: grind for items always come with greater challenges and you still can change your build or use strategy to take down that challenge.

the day you so called ’’casual’’ stop making excuses and actually work the time you log in even if its a lot less that ’’hardcore’’ and be more efficiently with your log in time and whatever you do when log in, youll notice the magic of getting fun and reaching the top, if i woudlve gone the way i played lineage 2 in this game, i woudlve had by now legendary as candy.

and another thing you guys need to realize this isnt GW1, is called Guild Wars 2 and even if i dislike some features and some stuff i dont compare with other games, because this isnt that game, if Lineage 3 ever comes out i will definately go there without hesistation, but i wont be in the forums posting such stuff ‘’i remember in l2 where….’’ ‘’in l2 you….’’ ‘’l2 had…’’ etc

you guys need to move on, you are in a different game, in different time, with different people, so on.

I bought the game wanting to play the spiritual successor to GW1. Being able to get max stat gear easily, thus having no divides between players, is GW.

Mindlessly grinding a dungeon for drops or points for a single item is WOW. Having massive divides between players is WOW. None of this is GW.

JemL.3501:

@Velkyn.5168: let me tell you something i bet i can outlvl, grind, progress, etc any so called ’’casual’’ in one hour race between him and me.

Well thank you for telling me that, but what does that have to do with my post?

nope. the game should be challenging.

Add whatever gear skins you want to the game and make it take a bazillion grind hours to get it. No problem. The addition of a new gear stat tier that impacts PvP and requires grinding just put GW2 in the same lame category of everything that came before.

I guess we will be following the new game release sites ever more closely and certainly will not be looking forward to GW2 expansions.

Shame on you ANET …. hey I swung a sword and now I have to swing it again a million times grinding content to get stats ….

Astralporing.1957:

There should be games catering to both options. In the game i want to play? Definitely – i now want to play for fun, my times of grinding and hard work just to be able to have fun are long over. I don’t want to return to this anymore. I already have one work, and i don’t need a second one.

There are two groups here:
– People who want max stat gear to take lots of time to acquire
– People who want max stat gear to be quickly acquired

I don’t see how you can satisfy both groups. Especially when the first group are the people who will grind content they don’t like to get max stats, meaning they will look for the quickest path.

The closet you can get is to give the people who like grinding something other than stats to focus on. Which is the GW2 we were promised, quick max stats, long grinds for titles and cosmetic gear.

El Hefe.2814:

nope. the game should be challenging.

Challenge doesn’t have to revolve around gear. Challenge has to do with actual game mechanics. Powerful gear does not make the content challenging, it actually makes it easier.

Yes, aside from Legendary weapons.

When someone in my dungeon group is under performing, I want to be able to give him advice other than “Get better gear”.

When I get my kitten handed to me in any form of PvP/WvW, it should be because I was outplayed – not outgeared.

Most people are perfectly happy grinding for gear simply because of the cosmetic value – and for those who arnt they can simply just play the parts of the game they find interesting.

I dont have any issue with the new condition/resistance though, I think thats a fine way of gating content for people who want it(since you do not have to run high level Fractals). The only problem in my mind is that it has a higher all around stat-value.

Velkyn.5168:

JemL.3501:

@Velkyn.5168: let me tell you something i bet i can outlvl, grind, progress, etc any so called ’’casual’’ in one hour race between him and me.

Well thank you for telling me that, but what does that have to do with my post?

hi velkyn, it was regarding to this comment

Velkyn.5168:

many hours they spent on getting something

I believe there are ups and cons for this.

If Ascended gear didn’t have more stats, no one would have bothered with it.
You wouldn’t have bothered with Exotic if Rare had max stats.
But if Ascended has more stats it leads to complaints.

Honestly, I don’t mind a little treadmill, it keeps me busy.
As long as it’s Exotic→Ascended(max)→Legendary(max) as they said, it’s a good trade.

I still think Ascended stats should be PvE-only tho; that would make every complaint pointless as you don’t really need Exotic or Ascended to do PvE, but it gives advantages in WvW.

this might be the feature in guildwars 2 but it’s surely not keeping hardcore players as interested as different games are.

playing 4+ hours a day since release is more than enough to finish nearly all the “major” and “exciting” content in gw2

can any hardcore players tell me what they’re still doing in this game?

krookie.6378:

El Hefe.2814:

nope. the game should be challenging.

Challenge doesn’t have to revolve around gear. Challenge has to do with actual game mechanics. Powerful gear does not make the content challenging, it actually makes it easier.

don’t puts words in my mouth. i think gear should be challenging to get. never did mention power.

JemL.3501:

Velkyn.5168:

JemL.3501:

@Velkyn.5168: let me tell you something i bet i can outlvl, grind, progress, etc any so called ’’casual’’ in one hour race between him and me.

Well thank you for telling me that, but what does that have to do with my post?

hi velkyn, it was regarding to this comment

Velkyn.5168:

many hours they spent on getting something

I still don’t understand what you are saying. The full sentence goes:
“Players who love to grind and show off with the many hours they spent on getting something would still visibly stand out from the crowd like that just the same.” (e.g. if that gear was cosmetic only)

My question to you is, why would that not be good enough, why do you need extra stats on top of it already looking special and showing off your achievement to the public?

El Hefe.2814:

krookie.6378:

El Hefe.2814:

nope. the game should be challenging.

Challenge doesn’t have to revolve around gear. Challenge has to do with actual game mechanics. Powerful gear does not make the content challenging, it actually makes it easier.

don’t puts words in my mouth. i think gear should be challenging to get. never did mention power.

Why in order for game to be challenging the challenge must necessarily involve the gear? Chess is a challenging game, and yet you don’t have to grind for better pieces and board n order to defeat better opponents.

Here are my problems with ascended gear.

The biggest issue with ascended gear is not what is currently in the game, but rather how it goes against what Anet has said previously along with what it may mean for the future.

Anet advertised the game heavily as being a game without grind either for levels or for gear. This attracted many of us who like to spend our time doing anything we want in the game without worrying if we could be doing things more efficiently by getting better gear. The introduction of ascended gear is completely opposite to this idea.

It does not matter if the difference in stats is small, the very fact it exist is a mental sore for many of us. It leaves you constantly aware that you could be doing things better or easier than you are now, and when you barely lose a tough fight it makes you wonder if you could have done it if you had the better gear to give you that slight edge.

It makes the game future much less clear, this makes it difficult for me to enjoy the game playing as I want as it might set me back in the future. Sure I can play with just my exotics for now, but if in the future another dungeon is added with the agony condition then suddenly I can’t play it with my friends because I don’t have the gear for it. So while I might not need the gear, the fact that I might need it in the future is a great concern for many.

It also leaves the door open for future gear tiers. Instead of adding new horizontal content to give players more options, new expansions/content may instead become focused on the next big gear item or even a new level cap that must be reached to do these areas effectively, which for many, I want to “have fun instead of preparing to have fun”. The combination of a new gear tier currently only available in one area of the game combined with the new area being very lackluster (at least currently) concerns me greatly at is seems to say that Anet thinks it’s players would rather grind boring content for better gear instead of playing great content with mediocre rewards.

The game was advertised as being focused on horizontal content development with lots of options to what I could do where I wouldn’t have to worry about farming or grinding things to keep up with everyone else. Instead the game has become more and more of a grindfest with the only additional content currently being very underwhelming. If Anet does not go back to what they originally claimed, they will lose the players they advertised the heaviest towards and only be left with standard MMO grinders who will leave as soon as the next big name MMO comes out. If this trend continues I will not be surprised to find out GW2 is going completely f2p within the next year or two.

Astralporing.1957:

El Hefe.2814:

krookie.6378:

El Hefe.2814:

nope. the game should be challenging.

Challenge doesn’t have to revolve around gear. Challenge has to do with actual game mechanics. Powerful gear does not make the content challenging, it actually makes it easier.

don’t puts words in my mouth. i think gear should be challenging to get. never did mention power.

Why in order for game to be challenging the challenge must necessarily involve the gear? Chess is a challenging game, and yet you don’t have to grind for better pieces and board n order to defeat better opponents.

i never said it did. the game can have all kind of challenge. but gear should also be challenging to get. because whatever it takes to get that gear should be challenging. i’ve never said anything about grind. i do not think grind is challenge. do not assume im saything something im not. “gear should be challenging to get”. there is no power or grind in that sentance.

I believe it should be easy to obtain max stats but harder to get the unique appearance. I think that Orr should be made less annoying, that they should add the Ascended gear to dungeon bosses and zone bosses, and make it craftable. I think they should have unique skins for the fractal dungeon and a merchant selling skins for that dungeon just like any other. Doing these things would fix a few other things as well, like people only wanting to do fractals all the time and it might put people back in Orr for the events and people who want to run the other dungeons more. Those inventory boxes should be on every dungeon merchant.

Max armour should be easy to obtain, but rare/shiny highly sought after shouldnt… you have to give something for people to work for, but not make it so they get an advantage.
I have no issue with fractals having ascended gear or need it to go further, I have issue that the max armour is now set in a place where people like me cant/dont want to go.

Yes – max stat gear should be fairly easy to obtain. Rare skins not so much.

Its nothing about entitlement or “insert generation N has it esay” type arguments which are mostly empty of merit.

GW1 didn’t have a stat grind, nor should GW2. The time/resources in getting an exotic karma armor set or crafting one was about where it should have stayed for max stats.

If legendaries where too much of “wall”, sure, add in ascended as a not quite as “cool” as legendaries intermediate rare skin… heck, a more rational way to make the percursors as that intermediate rare-but-not-as-rare-as-legendary skins.

If some players want a gear stat grind, there are plenty of other MMOs that give that experience.

Missy.7356:

where people like me cant/dont want to go.

Those are two different things lol
1. How can you not go there? explain lol
2. You don’t want to go but then I am also sure you “don’t want” the extra stats too lol

I came to GW2 because I read that the grind would be for appearances, not stats.

Ascended will take A LOT of time and A LOT of money. That is not why I came to GW2.

But it will be the reason I leave as I hate grinding for stats, then buying more crystals just to retain my personal appearance.

Liquid.5961:

Yes and no. People who play more SHOULD have the advantage. It’s silly to think any other way. But getting good gear so everyone can do content is also nice. But MAX stat gear easily obtainable for everyone? No. Maybe a 5% or 10% difference for gear that actually takes time to get.

Why should people with no lives outside of the game have an advantage over people who do ?

Reonhato.5914:

The fact is that even without a gear difference someone who plays 4 hours a day is most likely going to be much better than someone who plays 1 hour a day.

Most likely, yes. Guaranteed, no.
But even if it was guaranteed, why should their advantage be made any greater ?

Why should someone who has been playing chess for years get to start with more queens on the board when their opponent has never played before ?

Players need things to aim for and some players like those things to be stats and I can guarantee you that far more people will aim for the armor with an extra +5 stats and keep playing than the number of people who will leave simply because of the items presence.

But how many of those people that want the +5 stats will stay in GW2 over another game that does it better ?

The people who leave because of too much grind are much more likely to stay in the long term because there is no alternative game for them.

Which customers are more valuable in the long term ?

DegoLocc.5976:

MMO’s aren’t made for casuals in mind, by design, not even this one. Nothing new here why are ppl surprised?

Because of these bits of pre-release advertising promising that GW2 would be different:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

– Colin Johanson

Finally, since combat is such a core part of the gameplay of any MMO, we’ve put a lot of emphasis into rethinking combat. So much of traditional MMO combat is rote and repetitive. You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet. Combat needs to be about making creative choices, and it needs to feel immediate, active, and visceral.

-Mike O’Brien

NaughtyProwler.8653:

OH no! Don’t go there… now we will have this endless debate about GW1 vs GW2, mmo vs corpg. Omg, how could you do this! GAH!

As I see it GW1 wasn’t an MMO. However lots of players treated it as one, to the point where when someone asked for MMO recommendations, GW1 was given as an answer and nobody complained. So it was still a competitor to MMOs and attracted MMO players.

Thus the comparison is valid.

JemL.3501:

@Merthax.5172: grind for items always come with greater challenges and you still can change your build or use strategy to take down that challenge.

If you’re after greater challanges, why do you like higher stat gear ?
All it does is reduce the difficulty of all content.

El Hefe.2814:

nope. the game should be challenging.

How does high stats on your character make the game any more challenging ?

GW1 had no trouble making harder challenges, even though the gear stayed the same.

El Hefe.2814:

Astralporing.1957:

El Hefe.2814:

krookie.6378:

El Hefe.2814:

nope. the game should be challenging.

Challenge doesn’t have to revolve around gear. Challenge has to do with actual game mechanics. Powerful gear does not make the content challenging, it actually makes it easier.

don’t puts words in my mouth. i think gear should be challenging to get. never did mention power.

Why in order for game to be challenging the challenge must necessarily involve the gear? Chess is a challenging game, and yet you don’t have to grind for better pieces and board n order to defeat better opponents.

i never said it did. the game can have all kind of challenge. but gear should also be challenging to get. because whatever it takes to get that gear should be challenging. i’ve never said anything about grind. i do not think grind is challenge. do not assume im saything something im not. “gear should be challenging to get”. there is no power or grind in that sentance.

There is no explanation either. Getting the pieces and chessboard is trivially easy. Does that somehow make the player’s effort less valuable or less challenging?

cainejw.7142:

Yes. In fact, I think I should start the game with full Legendaries, level 80, all skills unlocked, and…while we’re at it, I could totally use a new car. It’s in the manifesto!

But if you started with all that you could like, do all the content! Imagine being able to do all the content right from the start, it would make the content so much less fun right? In reality we’re not getting new things to do with new gear tiers, we’re getting the same thing to do over again instead.

The idea behind legendaries was a graphical indicator of someones dedication to the game, it had nothing to do with having better stats. It’s like a big fancy title saying “I love this game so I spent unmentionable hours working to get this” but more visual and noticeable. By making legendaries have better stats they have actually diminished the meaning of them as it’s no longer people who love the game that shoot for them, but just about everyone who wants any edge they can get. It’s no longer about showing how into the game you are, but about keeping up with everyone else. Which for many people, isn’t fun.

Kelvingts.2035:

Missy.7356:

where people like me cant/dont want to go.

Those are two different things lol
1. How can you not go there? explain lol
2. You don’t want to go but then I am also sure you “don’t want” the extra stats too lol

sending you a pm.

El Hefe.2814:

krookie.6378:

El Hefe.2814:

nope. the game should be challenging.

Challenge doesn’t have to revolve around gear. Challenge has to do with actual game mechanics. Powerful gear does not make the content challenging, it actually makes it easier.

don’t puts words in my mouth. i think gear should be challenging to get. never did mention power.

When you make a broad statement like “the game should be challenging,” you’re leaving it open to interpretation. Next time clarify what you mean and avoid using one liners. This isn’t Twitter.

Knight of Virtue.7964:

cainejw.7142:

Yes. In fact, I think I should start the game with full Legendaries, level 80, all skills unlocked, and…while we’re at it, I could totally use a new car. It’s in the manifesto!

But if you started with all that you could like, do all the content! Imagine being able to do all the content right from the start, it would make the content so much less fun right? In reality we’re not getting new things to do with new gear tiers, we’re getting the same thing to do over again instead.

The idea behind legendaries was a graphical indicator of someones dedication to the game, it had nothing to do with having better stats. It’s like a big fancy title saying “I love this game so I spent unmentionable hours working to get this” but more visual and noticeable. By making legendaries have better stats they have actually diminished the meaning of them as it’s no longer people who love the game that shoot for them, but just about everyone who wants any edge they can get. It’s no longer about showing how into the game you are, but about keeping up with everyone else. Which for many people, isn’t fun.

Interestingly, my post was removed and infracted. It didn’t add anything to the discussion according to the person making the decision to censor my post. Even better, you were somehow able to see my point and argue against it. Good job!

I think much like in moderation, the design team needs to their community a chance to actually contribute through conflict and resolution instead of nannying people with platitudes.

As for why I disagree with you, I think that the gear cannot all be the same stats. That then makes gear meaningless across all levels. Gear has to have meaning. You cannot have everyone have the same level of gear and expect people to play. They just don’t. You have to put in a reward system. However, I think the TIME it takes is the problem. Legendaries take a huge amount of time to create. I will gladly agree there.

I have often told a friend that the problem isn’t the idea. It’s the implementation. Much like with the moderation of these forums. Instead of recognizing that conflict is actually FRUITFUL, the moderation team hamfists everything they do, squashes potential for actual positive outcome, and pretends like the end result is not a failure. Legendaries, unfortunately, are a great idea taken to an extreme result much like the absolutely laughable moderation team that GW2 has.

I’m sure this post will be infracted too. Why? ‘cause it dares to call attention to a growing amount of failures in a series of games that I have played since Day 1 of Guild Wars 1. It’s disheartening and, frankly, makes me view ArenaNet negatively.

I made a post on this got lost in the shuffle: in addition to grinding for cosmetics, add items of “convenience.” These would be things like: increased inventory size, adding (or increasing) magic find, gear that is cheaper to repair, gear that affects harvesting/salvaging/crafting.

These convenience items would have a function beyond looking nice, but they wouldn’t make you more powerful in combat. They wouldn’t gate/obsolete content, and they wouldn’t be a divisive factor in forming groups. Sounds like a win/win for me. Max stats for those who want it, vertical gear grind for others.

cainejw.7142:

snip

I agree that some progression is not only fine but good for a game, but max stat gear should still be easy to obtain. What should take time is not getting max stats but rather getting fancier looking gear. GW1 did an excellent job with this and I don’t remember the game ever getting complaints about lack of gear progression.

I understand where you’re coming from, many wonder why they should bother spending all that time grinding if they don’t get any gameplay affecting differences from it. And that’s perfectly fine to enjoy grinding for power. But GW2 was advertised as a game for those of us who don’t like grinding for power. There are already many many games that do the power grind and many have been looking for something different as there hasn’t been an MMO that has really appealed to those of us who don’t like gear grind (I know some like it, but as before, they have many many other games to pick from to get what they want). GW2 promised to finally be the game us non-gear grinders were looking for, but now they’re starting to make gear grinding like every other MMO out there, which is removing the whole point of why many of us came to the game in the first place.

Merthax.5172:

I made a post on this got lost in the shuffle: in addition to grinding for cosmetics, add items of “convenience.” These would be things like: increased inventory size, adding (or increasing) magic find, gear that is cheaper to repair, gear that affects harvesting/salvaging/crafting.

These convenience items would have a function beyond looking nice, but they wouldn’t make you more powerful in combat. They wouldn’t gate/obsolete content, and they wouldn’t be a divisive factor in forming groups. Sounds like a win/win for me. Max stats for those who want it, vertical gear grind for others.

This is actually an interesting idea that I think should at least be looked into.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

There are two groups here:
– People who want max stat gear to take lots of time to acquire
– People who want max stat gear to be quickly acquired

I think it is more accurately:

-People who want max stat gear to be quickly acquired and character power on a leveled field.
-People who don’t want other people to have as strong statistical characters as they do.

Velkyn.5168:

I still don’t understand what you are saying. The full sentence goes:
“Players who love to grind and show off with the many hours they spent on getting something would still visibly stand out from the crowd like that just the same.” (e.g. if that gear was cosmetic only)
My question to you is, why would that not be good enough, why do you need extra stats on top of it already looking special and showing off your achievement to the public?

no, you are getting it wrong, i dont care about showing off if i have the top of the top to another people, i would careless about them, your question has no answer from me because is biased, i absolutely dont care about showing others i have x item which they will never be able to get.

thats where spoon-feed and jealousy comes in MMOs and the sentence: ‘’if i dont want or cant get something (insert reason), nobody should, they all should be equally to me because i dont want or cant get that pixel’’ still comes up and living.

What you all seems to not understand this is called Guild Wars 2, but still people comes here and post stuff like:

*when i was playing gw1…
*in gw1…
*i remember in gw1 this and that…
*make this game like gw1 please..

Then WoW people comes

*please make it like my old game please…

i dont complaint but if i were to would be:

*bugs still there and i prepurchased
*balance still doesnt exist, a warrior with a range weapon deals more damage than a ranger, better erase the ranger and give pets to the warrior
*i dont like spvp at all i like open world pvp
*we dont have dungeon queues but still a person can lvl up to 80 without leaving the town with only crafting thats disgusting nothing different of standing in stormwind and just doing a queue
*i absolutely hate bound system
*the game is 2ez and very simple, dont require politics, organization, you can even complete the game without doing party or talking with another person or without guild, almost like the legend of zelda, but not in that superior gameplay level (iam saying LoZ is a masterpiece)
*insert other thing

iam trying to be eloquent because i iam not even defending the new gear, all i know is ‘’ok they added it guess ill log in again and farm it and play some more wvw which is the thing i like to do most in this game’’ but others just come demanding and complaining, its just disgusting in all point of views and even if the customer is very important saying stuff like ‘’iam leaving if you dont…’’ is just…sigh.

iam so waiting for another mmos to come and i already have my eyes in two because gw2 wasnt what i was looking for, but whatever they add, change, transform, try, i just respect it because is work, while others just make people sigh.

like so many people said ‘’nobody is forcing you to farm dungeon cosmetics’’ well they tell you ‘’nobody is forcing you to farm stats’’

sorry for my grammar, isnt my native language

It’s sad how many players equate the words “skill” and “stats” together. They fear so greatly having their personal ability tested without being able to rely on the crutch of having larger numbers that they throw around words like “entitlement” and “lazy”. They know its not true as much as the rest of us do, but they hold to that tired argument because its all they have.

Yes, max stat gear should be easily attained. Best looking gear should take time, but no one should rely on numbers to create the illusion of skill simply because they have more free time to grind than someone else.

-signed Someone who currently has 8+ hours a day to MMO and achieved their karma gear within 5 days of hitting 80

JemL.3501:

What you all seems to not understand this is called Guild Wars 2, but still people comes here and post stuff like:

*when i was playing gw1…
*in gw1…
*i remember in gw1 this and that…
*make this game like gw1 please..

Because ANet counted on the built-in audience of GW1 players for GW2. I would guess the majority of pre-purchases of GW2 were made by loyal GW1 players who believed ANet’s promises.

I did not think the game would be a clone of GW1, because that would be silly. The underlying game philosophy should not have changed, though. That’s why we are complaining.

“Because ANet counted on the built-in audience of GW1 players for GW2. I would guess the majority of pre-purchases of GW2 were made by loyal GW1 players who believed ANet’s promises.”

Pretty much this. I would have waited until GW2 was on special for 30-40$ if I knew they had this crap an end game, or planned to add it.

Instead I bought the CE and 100$ worth of gems (bringing me up to around 300$ spent on the game) and then they pull the rug from underneath me and change the game completely. I know I handed out trials to friends for GW2 hoping the gear grind wasn’t so bad, and had around 20$ who were willing to buy it before the end of the month until I told them end game was all grinding 1 dungeon. Killed it for them too.

I have never played GWI, but I would like the best items were easy to obtain!

As a matter of fact, the ideal setup for me, would be, kinda like PvP, we could just walk straight to a vendor when we ding level 80, that sells small tokens with stat’s on (Following the Statlines from Shaman’s, Berzerker’s ect ect), we could use on our Item skins (there should be a lot of these skins we could try to obtain). These tokens would then give the stats to the gear we desire, completely removing the need for grinding gear for the stat’s, and not for the skins!