Steam Ogre

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.

They are not griefers, nor trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it is best for them and their time, not when other people tell them too.

As Behe said, he and his guild are within their rights to do Ogre whenever he feels. However, when the while map is planning to do Ogre after FE, and find that they no longer can because another group purposely completed it and denied the rest of the map a chance after the FE kill, that would count as griefing.

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

So denying them the champ bag that everyone else present is expecting from doing Ogre, which is now locked because of Azhure’s guild’s action, an action they didn’t need to take since they could join after like everyone is expecting, isn’t a form of griefing?

And unlike the old champ train, it’s the only time to access it right after FE. It’s not like another FE will also spawn in 20 minutes. The old champ train can simply move onto the next station, here the ogre is accessible or not right after FE. There’s a linkage to another event at the same location.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

Kind of curious OP, how many guildies, on average, do you muster for this event?

Its difficult to tell exactly, as not all of our members are representing the guild during train (which makes it more difficult to hear callouts in guild chat, obviously, so they tend to party up with someone that is). I would say 30+ on average, every night. We also work in conjunction with another guild. With the amount of scouting that we do — we usually hit a good 20 “world” bosses within a 2 hour timeframe each night. It can be crazy at times but we do the best we can.

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.

That would mean that anyone doing any event ever is griefing. If you do an event it will not be available for me to do two minutes later. You have therefore prevented me from doing the event. Right?

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Neural.1824

Neural.1824

The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.

They are not griefers, nor trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it is best for them and their time, not when other people tell them too.

yes yes, not grieferss or trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it just magically so happens to be the most inconvenient for the largest amount of other players :roll eyes: Especially since you need to kill FE to do the final charge on the matrix key in which the next logical step is to do Ogre.

Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: NoxInfernus.2361

NoxInfernus.2361

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.

But as OP has stated they are not doing it with the expressed purpose of preventing other players from doing it. Their participation in the event before FE, and not after, is following under the unwritten rule of first come first served.

They are playing the game their way, and still within the rules.
It may annoy you, but it is not actionable.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Kind of curious OP, how many guildies, on average, do you muster for this event?

Its difficult to tell exactly, as not all of our members are representing the guild during train (which makes it more difficult to hear callouts in guild chat, obviously, so they tend to party up with someone that is). I would say 30+ on average, every night. We also work in conjunction with another guild. With the amount of scouting that we do — we usually hit a good 20 “world” bosses within a 2 hour timeframe each night. It can be crazy at times but we do the best we can.

So 30(ish) in your guild plus some unknown number from an allied guild.

Sounds like your guild might very well be the majority at the time you play the event.

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: NoxInfernus.2361

NoxInfernus.2361

The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.

They are not griefers, nor trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it is best for them and their time, not when other people tell them too.

yes yes, not grieferss or trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it just magically so happens to be the most inconvenient for the largest amount of other players :roll eyes: Especially since you need to kill FE to do the final charge on the matrix key in which the next logical step is to do Ogre.

It might be the “next logical step”, but then I would argue that your beef is with Anet and the design of the event. It is not with the players who are working within the rules as set out by the game makers.

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Lytalm.5673

Lytalm.5673

OP is kitten. If everyone would follow you at Steam Ogre, FE pre would fail. So this is really selfish to expect that people will do as you say to please your schedule.

Les Pirates du Styx [xQcx]
Fort Aspenwood

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

FE is roughly a 13 minute event from quarter of the hour. Choosing to do an adjacent event during that time, one that will lock for 20 minutes once done, doing it not during the time when there are others around it’s entrance but after everyone has retired to the adjacent room with only a passing chat message once the next to final battle starts, to ease their consensus? Well we told them. Few if any heard us and came to join. Our hands are clean.

PvE in this game was designed to eliminate many of the common ways in MMOs when one player could mess with another in PvE. I commend the OP that they found a way to mess with a room full of players.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Kaos.9162

Kaos.9162

This thread is hilarious, people miss what, one champ bag because they can’t be bothered to pay attention to map chat and they accuse the people doing the event of being griefers?

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Lytalm.5673

Lytalm.5673

OP is kitten. If everyone would follow you at Steam Ogre, FE pre would fail. So this is really selfish to expect that people will do as you say to please your schedule.

LOL WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING

150+ players watch 5 people do the FE pre’s. PLEASE.

This is a different topic.

SO should be done after FE to let the chance for everyone to get it.

If lazy people make you sick, don’t do World Boss. If you hate waiting on a timer, don’t do World Boss. Simple solution.

Les Pirates du Styx [xQcx]
Fort Aspenwood

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

If the Steam Ogre wasn’t locked after the kill, then no one would really complain. But for one group to purposely do the event out of order, then locking the rest of the players, that is griefing. OP seems to know this, and admits that he doesn’t care what we think. So with that in mind, if your intent is to do the event and ruin it for others, that should be a breach on the Rules of Conduct, and should score at least a 72 hour suspension.

If bad language in Map Chat is punishable, then bad actions should be too.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: edgarallanpwn.8739

edgarallanpwn.8739

OP is kitten. If everyone would follow you at Steam Ogre, FE pre would fail. So this is really selfish to expect that people will do as you say to please your schedule.

LOL WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING

150+ players watch 5 people do the FE pre’s. PLEASE.

This is a different topic.

SO should be done after FE to let the chance for everyone to get it.

If lazy people make you sick, don’t do World Boss. If you hate waiting on a timer, don’t do World Boss. Simple solution.

there’s nothing wrong with lazy people. But the argument that "FE pre’s will fail because OP starts steam ogre during that time, is complete and utter bullkitten

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Lytalm.5673

Lytalm.5673

OP is kitten. If everyone would follow you at Steam Ogre, FE pre would fail. So this is really selfish to expect that people will do as you say to please your schedule.

LOL WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING

150+ players watch 5 people do the FE pre’s. PLEASE.

This is a different topic.

SO should be done after FE to let the chance for everyone to get it.

If lazy people make you sick, don’t do World Boss. If you hate waiting on a timer, don’t do World Boss. Simple solution.

there’s nothing wrong with lazy people. But the argument that "FE pre’s will fail because OP starts steam ogre during that time, is complete and utter bullkitten

Have you tried it? How can you say that if everyone goes for SO, they will be back in time before the golem gets overwhelmed?

And it’s you that brought the topic of lazy people, so why are you denying it now?

Les Pirates du Styx [xQcx]
Fort Aspenwood

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

The problem is on the event. Its mechanics allow griefing.

Some things must change to improve it:

1. Once the key is used to open, a ‘gather an wait’ event should pop around the console with arrows on the map indicating to go near the panel. The event will also have a timer. The time will be from 10 to 120 seconds depending on how many people is within the entire Thaumanova meta-event. Once the event ends, the forcefields go down and people can jump in.
2. The Steam ogre would get much more health, and have much stronger telegraphed attacks that will push players off the platform, kind of like Nochtli on the Sparring Rock or the Champion Inquest Blaster Krewe Leader at teh Crash Site 2. Since it’s a level 1-15 area, those pushed off the platform would be teleported back to the console instead falling to the ground. The rewards would also be improved to go along the increased difficulty, with a daily personal bonus for those who complete the event without getting pushed off the platform.
3. After the fire elemental is defeated, it should ALWAYS reset.
4. From 5 minutes before the fire elemental until the elemental is defeated, and while any of the “misplaced creature” events are up, it should be unavailable, the panel refusing to accept keys.
5. If the elemental event is failed, the steam ogre event should be unavailable until the an elemental is successfully defeated.
6. Extra keys people carry should not be destroyed when entering the platform. That’s just mean.

This way, people doing it before the event won’t annoy people who want to do it after the event, and the event would be more fun and interesting instead just another “autoattack grab bag”.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: edgarallanpwn.8739

edgarallanpwn.8739

OP is kitten. If everyone would follow you at Steam Ogre, FE pre would fail. So this is really selfish to expect that people will do as you say to please your schedule.

LOL WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING

150+ players watch 5 people do the FE pre’s. PLEASE.

This is a different topic.

SO should be done after FE to let the chance for everyone to get it.

If lazy people make you sick, don’t do World Boss. If you hate waiting on a timer, don’t do World Boss. Simple solution.

there’s nothing wrong with lazy people. But the argument that "FE pre’s will fail because OP starts steam ogre during that time, is complete and utter bullkitten

Have you tried it? How can you say that if everyone goes for SO, they will be back in time before the golem gets overwhelmed?

And it’s you that brought the topic of lazy people, so why are you denying it now?

OP is kitten. If everyone would follow you at Steam Ogre, FE pre would fail. So this is really selfish to expect that people will do as you say to please your schedule.

LOL WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING

150+ players watch 5 people do the FE pre’s. PLEASE.

This is a different topic.

SO should be done after FE to let the chance for everyone to get it.

If lazy people make you sick, don’t do World Boss. If you hate waiting on a timer, don’t do World Boss. Simple solution.

there’s nothing wrong with lazy people. But the argument that "FE pre’s will fail because OP starts steam ogre during that time, is complete and utter bullkitten

Have you tried it? How can you say that if everyone goes for SO, they will be back in time before the golem gets overwhelmed?

And it’s you that brought the topic of lazy people, so why are you denying it now?

If everyone at the flame elemental can’t down the steam ogre in 1m during the whole 13m you get to do the FE pre’s then just wow, what were people doing, afking?. IF it takes longer than that do it, that means that the majority of the players were from the two guilds doing the steam ogre, and that if anyone would be inconvenienced it would be the two guilds providing steam ogre.

Op did not clarify what 3m pre meant, 3m left in pre’s or 3 minutes before pre’s start.

Either way it does not take very long at all to down steam ogre at all.

If you can’t invest the time, you don’t deserve the bag

You’re the one trying to make an argument out of nothing. People want to whine about everything

(edited by edgarallanpwn.8739)

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Majic.4801

Majic.4801

Politics By Other Means

The central, overarching lesson of emergent gameplay is that there is absolutely, positively nothing people won’t fight over.

Nothing.

“Not the same, real and true. True you feel inside.
Always follow what is true.” — Sentry-skritt Bordekka

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Brother Grimm.5176

Brother Grimm.5176

There are those of us that only care for ourselves, those of us that care for a group, and those of us that care for everyone. For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.

While selfish implies “self” a group can be selfish and I think the above fits the definition. I have no problem with you being ok with what you are doing, but call a spade a spade. You are doing it for your Guild. You “allowing” other to come along does not change the fact that your actions lock the Event for 20ish minutes.

That’s the thing – I don’t deserve the abusive messages. ….

Do other players deserve to miss either some of the FE event chain OR Steam Ogre? You are basically forcing them to choose (and that is 100% your choice). I’m in no way stating you “deserve” the criticism, but you are going to get it if you continue your current method….it’s pretty simple.

If you are truly getting verbal abuse, report it and move on.

We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Buttercup.5871

Buttercup.5871

This all feels like the “I have the right to let the event succeed!” debate all over again, with some slight differences here and there. Yes, the OP can start the event but in doing so, with or without a map warning, will kitten over the majority of the map. He knows it, and his post is a testament to that effect. The way I see it, both he as well as those that are rude to him are in the wrong.

Anet stated openly that failing an event is an allowed outcome; as long as it is reached together it’s a legitimate goal. Flaming those that want to complete the event is, however, not tolerated. It seems to me that in this case though, the goal is not a common goal, just OP and his guildies without the rest of the map. Map chat is a mere gesture of you know from experience it doesn’t reach the majority of players in time.

So OP, you’re allowed. But is it really worth it? You seem to have enough common sense in you to know that the answer is no.

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

The OP is Entitled to play the game his way, but is not Entitled to ruin the game for everyone else.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: edgarallanpwn.8739

edgarallanpwn.8739

There are those of us that only care for ourselves, those of us that care for a group, and those of us that care for everyone. For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.

While selfish implies “self” a group can be selfish and I think the above fits the definition. I have no problem with you being ok with what you are doing, but call a spade a spade. You are doing it for your Guild. You “allowing” other to come along does not change the fact that your actions lock the Event for 20ish minutes.

That’s the thing – I don’t deserve the abusive messages. ….

Do other players deserve to miss either some of the FE event chain OR Steam Ogre? You are basically forcing them to choose (and that is 100% your choice). I’m in no way stating you “deserve” the criticism, but you are going to get it if you continue your current method….it’s pretty simple.
———————————-
If you are truly getting verbal abuse, report it and move on.

You “allowing” other to come along does not change the fact that your actions lock the Event for 20ish minutes.
——————————————-
If this were true, anyone who did an event EVER in the history of this is selfish.

This all feels like the “I have the right to let the event succeed!” debate all over again, with some slight differences here and there. Yes, the OP can start the event but in doing so, with or without a map warning, will kitten over the majority of the map. He knows it, and his post is a testament to that effect. The way I see it, both he as well as those that are rude to him are in the wrong.

Anet stated openly that failing an event is an allowed outcome; as long as it is reached together it’s a legitimate goal. Flaming those that want to complete the event is, however, not tolerated. It seems to me that in this case though, the goal is not a common goal, just OP and his guildies without the rest of the map. Map chat is a mere gesture of you know from experience it doesn’t reach the majority of players in time.

So OP, you’re allowed. But is it really worth it? You seem to have enough common sense in you to know that the answer is no.

If you;re trying to make a point, don’t try making it with a subjective question.

For the op helping out his guild, it was VERY WORTH it. Maybe not for the other people but its subjective.

(edited by edgarallanpwn.8739)

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Dramen Maidria.1034

Dramen Maidria.1034

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.

Just from your original post you clearly have a dog in this fight which is clouding your judgment. In order for this to qualify as “griefing”, they would need to be doing the event early for the purpose of preventing other people from doing it. I get that you are annoyed you haven’t been able to do it after FE like you are used to, but neither you nor anyone else is being deliberately excluded from the steam ogre. They are calling out in map chat before they open it with enough time for anyone who wants to can join them. It is in no way griefing, and they will never be punished for doing what they are doing. It is not their fault if people want to play like automatons and don’t pay attention to map chat.
edit: quoted wrong post but it doesn’t matter

Dramen Maidria
Knights of ARES, Dragonbrand
Good times, good memories

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.

Just from your original post you clearly have a dog in this fight which is clouding your judgment. In order for this to qualify as “griefing”, they would need to be doing the event early for the purpose of preventing other people from doing it. I get that you are annoyed you haven’t been able to do it after FE like you are used to, but neither you nor anyone else is being deliberately excluded from the steam ogre. They are calling out in map chat before they open it with enough time for anyone who wants to can join them. It is in no way griefing, and they will never be punished for doing what they are doing. It is not their fault if people want to play like automatons and don’t pay attention to map chat.
edit: quoted wrong post but it doesn’t matter

To respond to the idea that they “call it out early enough”.

Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: Dramen Maidria.1034

Dramen Maidria.1034

The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.

They are not griefers, nor trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it is best for them and their time, not when other people tell them too.

As Behe said, he and his guild are within their rights to do Ogre whenever he feels. However, when the while map is planning to do Ogre after FE, and find that they no longer can because another group purposely completed it and denied the rest of the map a chance after the FE kill, that would count as griefing.

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

So denying them the champ bag that everyone else present is expecting from doing Ogre, which is now locked because of Azhure’s guild’s action, an action they didn’t need to take since they could join after like everyone is expecting, isn’t a form of griefing?

And unlike the old champ train, it’s the only time to access it right after FE. It’s not like another FE will also spawn in 20 minutes. The old champ train can simply move onto the next station, here the ogre is accessible or not right after FE. There’s a linkage to another event at the same location.

You clearly skimmed or didn’t read his post. They can’t do it after because their own schedule of events other than just world bosses doesn’t allow it. You also don’t understand what griefing actually is. In order to be considered griefing they have to be doing it for the sole purpose of preventing people from doing it after FE, which is not the case at all. They are also inviting everyone present to join them, further removing them from the definition of griefing. It may annoy you that you can’t do the ogre since it was already done, but you weren’t the victim of griefing in this case.

Dramen Maidria
Knights of ARES, Dragonbrand
Good times, good memories

Steam Ogre

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Posted by: edgarallanpwn.8739

edgarallanpwn.8739

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.

Just from your original post you clearly have a dog in this fight which is clouding your judgment. In order for this to qualify as “griefing”, they would need to be doing the event early for the purpose of preventing other people from doing it. I get that you are annoyed you haven’t been able to do it after FE like you are used to, but neither you nor anyone else is being deliberately excluded from the steam ogre. They are calling out in map chat before they open it with enough time for anyone who wants to can join them. It is in no way griefing, and they will never be punished for doing what they are doing. It is not their fault if people want to play like automatons and don’t pay attention to map chat.
edit: quoted wrong post but it doesn’t matter

To respond to the idea that they “call it out early enough”.

Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.

Sure you’re allowed to report, but nothing will happen because its not breaking any rules. And i will laugh as anyone who harasses gets reported and action taken.

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Posted by: Dramen Maidria.1034

Dramen Maidria.1034

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.

Just from your original post you clearly have a dog in this fight which is clouding your judgment. In order for this to qualify as “griefing”, they would need to be doing the event early for the purpose of preventing other people from doing it. I get that you are annoyed you haven’t been able to do it after FE like you are used to, but neither you nor anyone else is being deliberately excluded from the steam ogre. They are calling out in map chat before they open it with enough time for anyone who wants to can join them. It is in no way griefing, and they will never be punished for doing what they are doing. It is not their fault if people want to play like automatons and don’t pay attention to map chat.
edit: quoted wrong post but it doesn’t matter

To respond to the idea that they “call it out early enough”.

Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.

Again not understanding the situation. No one is “purposely ruining the boss train because they can”. This is a conflict of schedules that already has a fix in place. As a side note, if you WP in a couple of minutes before the actual FE starts, you have zero right to complain in this situation since you wouldn’t have time to make a key anyway.

Dramen Maidria
Knights of ARES, Dragonbrand
Good times, good memories

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.

They are not griefers, nor trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it is best for them and their time, not when other people tell them too.

As Behe said, he and his guild are within their rights to do Ogre whenever he feels. However, when the while map is planning to do Ogre after FE, and find that they no longer can because another group purposely completed it and denied the rest of the map a chance after the FE kill, that would count as griefing.

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

So denying them the champ bag that everyone else present is expecting from doing Ogre, which is now locked because of Azhure’s guild’s action, an action they didn’t need to take since they could join after like everyone is expecting, isn’t a form of griefing?

And unlike the old champ train, it’s the only time to access it right after FE. It’s not like another FE will also spawn in 20 minutes. The old champ train can simply move onto the next station, here the ogre is accessible or not right after FE. There’s a linkage to another event at the same location.

You clearly skimmed or didn’t read his post. They can’t do it after because their own schedule of events other than just world bosses doesn’t allow it. You also don’t understand what griefing actually is. In order to be considered griefing they have to be doing it for the sole purpose of preventing people from doing it after FE, which is not the case at all. They are also inviting everyone present to join them, further removing them from the definition of griefing. It may annoy you that you can’t do the ogre since it was already done, but you weren’t the victim of griefing in this case.

I find it hard to believe that an entire guild can only do Steam Ogre conveniently 5 to 10 minutes before the FE spawns… out of all the times to do it during the Boss spawn timer.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: RoseofGilead.8907

RoseofGilead.8907

Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.

While I don’t think OP is necessarily completely right (if they’re really that bored during the pre-events, they could participate in said pre-events, for example), I have to call BS on this. Not one single person in this game is required to wait for permission to do an event. No one should be forced to wait to do something because of the people who didn’t show up to the event in time. I also wouldn’t call what the OP’s guild does “griefing”. They have every right to use the key when they want to. They’re not breaking any rules or keeping other players (those who are actually in the zone, that is) from participating.

Edit: That being said, just as the other players can suck it up and easily handle Steam Ogre happening during the pre-events, the guild could easily find a way to give themselves time to do Steam Ogre after the event (it takes a whopping 60 seconds, at the most, to get your loot, run to the center, put in the key, kill the champ, loot the chest, and waypoint to your next map).

(edited by RoseofGilead.8907)

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.

While I don’t think OP is necessarily completely right (if they’re really that bored during the pre-events, they could participate in said pre-events, for example), I have to call BS on this. Not one single person in this game is required to wait for permission to do an event. No one should be forced to wait to do something because of the people who didn’t show up to the event in time. I also wouldn’t call what the OP’s guild does “griefing”. They have every right to use the key when they want to. They’re not breaking any rules or keeping other players (those who are actually in the zone, that is) from participating.

But they are preventing players who WP in for the FE kill, from doing the Steam Ogre in the proper order.

If there was no lock on the Steam Ogre respawn, then there’d be no issues. But there is. And the OP admits to not caring about what the other players on the map think. That is griefing.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Yalora Istairiea.6287

Yalora Istairiea.6287

It is entirely the OP’s prerogative to play the game as he sees fit and open up the event whenever he chooses to.

However lets not try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear here. I think it is with full understanding that the timing they choose to do the Champion Steam Ogre precludes everyone else who is actually doing the FE pre-event from completing it after the other active events are done.

I find it very hard to believe that the run to the CSO after the FE event and the 15 seconds to complete it would adversely effect their called out schedule. Maybe it does, but it is hard for this inquiring mind to fathom.

Therefore, it would be my expectation that this action would be a thinly veiled attempt at justifiable griefing.

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Posted by: RoseofGilead.8907

RoseofGilead.8907

Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.

While I don’t think OP is necessarily completely right (if they’re really that bored during the pre-events, they could participate in said pre-events, for example), I have to call BS on this. Not one single person in this game is required to wait for permission to do an event. No one should be forced to wait to do something because of the people who didn’t show up to the event in time. I also wouldn’t call what the OP’s guild does “griefing”. They have every right to use the key when they want to. They’re not breaking any rules or keeping other players (those who are actually in the zone, that is) from participating.

But they are preventing players who WP in for the FE kill, from doing the Steam Ogre in the proper order.

If there was no lock on the Steam Ogre respawn, then there’d be no issues. But there is. And the OP admits to not caring about what the other players on the map think. That is griefing.

It’s not OP’s (or anyone’s) responsibility to wait for every single straggler to zone in. If you’re late, you’re late. What he’s doing by itself isn’t griefing. Griefing != “something that goes against what my personal schedule is used to”.

(edited by RoseofGilead.8907)

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.

While I don’t think OP is necessarily completely right (if they’re really that bored during the pre-events, they could participate in said pre-events, for example), I have to call BS on this. Not one single person in this game is required to wait for permission to do an event. No one should be forced to wait to do something because of the people who didn’t show up to the event in time. I also wouldn’t call what the OP’s guild does “griefing”. They have every right to use the key when they want to. They’re not breaking any rules or keeping other players (those who are actually in the zone, that is) from participating.

But they are preventing players who WP in for the FE kill, from doing the Steam Ogre in the proper order.

If there was no lock on the Steam Ogre respawn, then there’d be no issues. But there is. And the OP admits to not caring about what the other players on the map think. That is griefing.

It’s not OP’s (or anyone’s) responsibility to wait for every single straggler to zone in. If you’re late, you’re late. What he’s doing isn’t griefing. Griefing != “something that goes against what my personal schedule is used to”.

Griefing = Purposely doing an event that locks everyone else out of it.

When 99% of the population WPs in to do the FE event, then runs to the Steam Ogre right after, only to find it finished and locked by the 1%, there should be punishments.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Astral Projections.7320

Astral Projections.7320

Y’all know what? All of you have forgotten what ANet is likely to do to an event that causes arguments and fights. They remove or alter it in some way.

Remember the Queensdale champ train? Gone. The event chain tied to the Living Story in Frostgorge that people were arguing about? Altered.

If OP wants to do this, it’s up to him however if there are enough reports and enough controversy, if other guilds or people start doing this too and also cause controversy then you may expect ANet to step in and take your toys away.

(edited by Astral Projections.7320)

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Anet – time to change the event, and lock Steam Ogre for after FE completes. This would eliminate all the trolls who block the event by doing it early.

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Posted by: Neural.1824

Neural.1824

I find it hard to believe that an entire guild can only do Steam Ogre conveniently 5 to 10 minutes before the FE spawns… out of all the times to do it during the Boss spawn timer.

QFT

Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Anet – time to change the event, and lock Steam Ogre for after FE completes. This would eliminate all the trolls who block the event by doing it early.

Or better make the Steam Ogre event appear every time someone uses the Key, before or after FE. With a daily chest maybe so people can’t do it more than once per day. There fixed it in an easy way so everyone is happy :P (I hope)

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Anet – time to change the event, and lock Steam Ogre for after FE completes. This would eliminate all the trolls who block the event by doing it early.

Or better make the Steam Ogre event appear every time someone uses the Key, before or after FE. With a daily chest maybe so people can’t do it more than once per day. There fixed it in an easy way so everyone is happy :P (I hope)

That would also mean increasing the rewards that he drops, which I’m all for.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

Start laughing at them. There’s a difference between inconsiderate behavior and misplaced entitlement.

Attachments:

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

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Posted by: Red Queen.7915

Red Queen.7915

Griefing = Purposely doing an event that locks everyone else out of it.

When 99% of the population WPs in to do the FE event, then runs to the Steam Ogre right after, only to find it finished and locked by the 1%, there should be punishments.

So, literally every event, ever? Griefing would be taking place if, say, the ogre could be pulled to the FE where it would start rampaging and killing every player in its way. Doing that, all the time, for kittens and giggles, would be griefing. Doing an event outside its “schedule” is not griefing. Announcing it so any lazy bum who idles until FE appears can participate even less so.

And I find it hilarious that doing the ogre event at the “wrong” time is supposedly griefing, but WPing two minutes before FE (or any boss) appears, killing it and looting without lifting a finger for the preevents, every single time, counts as perfectly normal behaviour. Just mentioning that again, for laughs.

PSA: The amount of small felines serves as an indicator for just how angry I am at something.

Kaerleikur @ Elonaspitze

(edited by Red Queen.7915)

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Posted by: Sariel V.7024

Sariel V.7024

So it’s the tyranny of the minority over the wishes of the majority.

Don’t go there.

We’ve had enough hullabaloo over people ‘owning’ event chains in Orr, and in Frostgorge, and maize farmers anywhere white critters gather.

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

This is why we will never be granted an option for reporting griefers in this game, there would be far too many people misusing it.

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

This is why we will never be granted an option for reporting griefers in this game, there would be far too many people misusing it.

We would only use it for legitimate reasons, like when someone purposely blocks an entire boss event for the map.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

This is why we will never be granted an option for reporting griefers in this game, there would be far too many people misusing it.

We would only use it for legitimate reasons, like when someone purposely blocks an entire boss event for the map.

And how will you ensure that player hates-his-guts understands what griefing is when someone kills a FGS train boss out of sync?

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

This is why we will never be granted an option for reporting griefers in this game, there would be far too many people misusing it.

We would only use it for legitimate reasons, like when someone purposely blocks an entire boss event for the map.

And how will you ensure that player hates-his-guts understands what griefing is when someone kills a FGS train boss out of sync?

Champ trains are different than Boss trains. Champs respawn on a frequent basis. Boss trains are slaves to the Boss Spawn timer every 15 minutes on different maps. It’s not like we can wait 20 minutes for the Steam Ogre to respawn while doing a Boss train on a different map. Ergo griefing.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: edgarallanpwn.8739

edgarallanpwn.8739

This is why we will never be granted an option for reporting griefers in this game, there would be far too many people misusing it.

We would only use it for legitimate reasons, like when someone purposely blocks an entire boss event for the map.

And how will you ensure that player hates-his-guts understands what griefing is when someone kills a FGS train boss out of sync?

Champ trains are different than Boss trains. Champs respawn on a frequent basis. Boss trains are slaves to the Boss Spawn timer every 15 minutes on different maps. It’s not like we can wait 20 minutes for the Steam Ogre to respawn while doing a Boss train on a different map. Ergo griefing.

You can wait if you want to. You CHOOSE not to. Its not greifing, its an inconvenience. Maybe when they do it is convenient to them, just as when it was convenient for you.

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Posted by: Azrael.4960

Azrael.4960

What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.

If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.

The simplest fix is to just remove the timer from the Steam ogre.

Why people are foaming at the mouth at missing 1, not 10, not 4, 1 champ bag is beyond me.

What they’re doing is hardly griefing. They’re playing the game as it was intended. Hell, OP would be well within their rights to just open it for the guild, do the event and move on. They’re not beholden to the unwashed masses that abuse them for doing the event. When I’m doing exploration and come across champs, I announce to the map that any lowbie interested in getting the help of a lvl 80 char in taking down a champ should come to my tag. I considerately tag up and wait 5min.

Can I solo the champ? sure. Do I need to tag up and let people in on the loot? Nope.

OP or OP’s guildmate has gone to the trouble of getting the key ready for a steam ogre. How they choose to use it is entirely up to them. If it inconveniences a map full of people, don’t blame it on the OP, blame it Anet’s map design that locks out gate.

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Posted by: Lytalm.5673

Lytalm.5673

This resume the topic for me : Are we really arguing for a poop event that give poop loot? And I just hope I won’t ever be in the instance when OP guild does this.

Les Pirates du Styx [xQcx]
Fort Aspenwood

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Posted by: Red Queen.7915

Red Queen.7915

The simplest fix is to just remove the timer from the Steam ogre.

That would make it possible to have lots of people get lots of keys, then farm the ogre until all the keys are gone. Rinse and repeat.
After nerfing the champ trains, I doubt this timer will be removed.

PSA: The amount of small felines serves as an indicator for just how angry I am at something.

Kaerleikur @ Elonaspitze

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Posted by: Azure Fang.8605

Azure Fang.8605

I’m going to be blunt. The counterplay arguments are exactly the same arguments that were being used by the event fail champ trains. They are toxic and have no place in the game. OP has directly stated multiple important points:

  • No intent to grief
  • Being considerate and announcing prior
  • Picking a time before pre start so everybody available can join

When the boss is killed, the event goes in cooldown and everybody that missed it missed it. That is the simple reality of timing. But guess what? The event respawns and they can come back later to do it, at any time, at their leisure, EXACTLY as OP did. The trains have no entitlement to determine how content in an open, dynamic MMO is played. If someone misses content, they miss is. In a macro context, is ANet griefing you because you were on vacation during a LS activation period? No. You simply missed out, and now you have a second option, paying, to get that content.

On the griiefing topic, this very subject was touched upon during the fail train fallout, and addressed. Content is meant to be played, one way or the other. If people want to wait until after, that’s completely fine, but they have to accept the consequences of that system. There is always that chance that their waiting will be for nothing as the content is available and someone is ALLOWED to play it. Just like how players are allowed to fail an event for a different outcome, and must accept that players are also allowed to succeed at that same event. There should be no harassment; the game was played, period.

And don’t go passing the buck, “blame ANet”, “blame map design”, “blame llamas”… learn the game, and take responsibility for the outcome of your actions, or lack thereof. You choose to play the way you do, but you are as special of a snowflake as everyone else who plays THE WAY THEY DO.

OP, you may have been the reason I missed Ogre yesterday. Good on you for playing. In the end, I got to see the exploit people were using to get past the shield, screenshot it, and report it. Afterward, I went out to the Silverwastes and got 28x the bags I could have gotten from Ogre without even trying. All in all, better than anticipated. Keep playing how you wish and have a nice day.

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

The simplest fix is to just remove the timer from the Steam ogre.

That would make it possible to have lots of people get lots of keys, then farm the ogre until all the keys are gone. Rinse and repeat.
After nerfing the champ trains, I doubt this timer will be removed.

Best fix I’ve heard is to have Ogre’s event timer reset after the Fire Elemental has been defeated, regardless if Ogre was done before FE or not. However I think it should also be paired with a daily timer for the players too, to prevent players from getting the same champion before and after FE. It would be a way of pleasing all parties involved in this conflict and wouldn’t break the event for anyone else (like the one suggestion of changing it to where Ogre can only ever be done after FE).

Isle of Janthir Megaserver